BS: An Easter Question

Subject: RE: BS: An Easter Question
From: akenaton
Date: 04 Apr 16 - 09:04 AM

By "us" I mean members of this forum.

Subject: RE: BS: An Easter Question
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 04 Apr 16 - 08:34 AM

What do you mean, those of us who have a faith? I thought you were an atheist!

Subject: RE: BS: An Easter Question
From: Raggytash
Date: 04 Apr 16 - 08:09 AM

Tell you what Akenaton, I'll stop when religion ceases to have an input on my life in any way, shape or form. Until then I retain to right to slag it off as I see fit.

Subject: RE: BS: An Easter Question
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 04 Apr 16 - 08:07 AM

"men in frocks" = Men wearing vestments that can be described as frocks.

"your invisible friend" = Has anyone seen god? Is it visible?

"religious child abuser" = There are plenty about.

As you have no way of proving any of the charges you make against believers,

Errr, I think I just did.

Subject: RE: BS: An Easter Question
From: akenaton
Date: 04 Apr 16 - 07:58 AM

Steve, you have joined the other "usual suspects" for years in ridiculing those of us who have a faith, in fact you have often been the instigator of such ridicule.

Personally I find myself unable to accept large portions of religion like the rising from the dead or an afterlife. I do see the value of a moral code while we are alive.

However I do not see the need to ridicule those who do chose to have a religious faith and if I were to write on issues that I am opposed to as you and your friends do on religion,you people would be the very first to complain and start name calling.
"men in frocks", "your invisible friend", "religious child abuser" may seem funny to you, but to people of faith, they are extremely insulting.   As you have no way of proving any of the charges you make against believers, I suggest you leave them to believe what makes them better people.

Subject: RE: BS: An Easter Question
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 04 Apr 16 - 07:57 AM

And, Eliza. Don't worry. It happens all the time. I have opened threads on the most innocuous subjects only to watch them turn into bar room brawls. At least yours is still open! Keep yer pecker up. Or maybe that can be controversial too..? :-)

Subject: RE: BS: An Easter Question
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 04 Apr 16 - 07:52 AM

:-D Did you not get it? A very nice man in Nigeria said that if I sent him my bank details he would get it to you! Can't trust anyone nowadays.

Talking of which, isn't there something in the bible stories about bearing false witness? Or is it wearing false fishnets? I can't remember.

Subject: RE: BS: An Easter Question
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 04 Apr 16 - 07:37 AM

Well I did think that "dearest Steve" (twice, once after my protestations) and "Steviebaby" were patronising and hardly designed with keeping the peace in mind.   If it's about setting a tone, that isn't the way to do it. I've attacked ideas on this thread, not individuals. And I've said what my ideas are, and you're free to attack them back. That is the way it should be. Instead, Joe, you accuse us of caricaturing religion and say it's like having a conversation with Donald Trump. You referred to "my protestations that in Great Britain, such insults are considered to be friendly banter, I don't think most Britons would agree" when I never said any such thing, or anything like it. You don't like religion threads, that's clear. But try not to have us thinking that you're out to shut them down just because you feel got at. The only thing that's sacred to me is the truth, and the only path to truth I see is via evidence and reason. I don't have a naturally thick skin but I find that helps.

And Dave, where's me bloody ten bob!

Subject: RE: BS: An Easter Question
From: Raggytash
Date: 04 Apr 16 - 07:03 AM

Senoufou, you have every reason to be flippant about stories in the bible. They are just that, stories. I used to like Hansel and Gretel but I wouldn't base my life on it.

The story I like most from the bible is about Moses and his motorbike.

Subject: RE: BS: An Easter Question
From: Senoufou
Date: 04 Apr 16 - 06:50 AM

Oh dear. I had an idea that starting this thread (albeit lightheartedly) would end in acrimony and unpleasantness.

I agree that one can discuss and put forward a viewpoint about someone's religion or atheism in a robust way. Airing views is interesting.

I don't agree that one can be insulting (yes there are insults on this thread) unkind, vituperative or scathing.

I was really enjoying the posts on here, thinking how lovely that we can all entertain each other for over 200 posts and talk about subjects very dear to our hearts without becoming nasty. It was looking as if the whole thread could dance along in the spirit of friendliness, as the topics in the Music Section above usually proceed.

But no. Same as usual. I feel very sad and a bit ashamed that I started all this!

I'm sorry Joe that you feel your religious beliefs have been rudely disparaged. I have every respect for all religions (including my husband's Islam) and I also quite see how atheists come to their conclusions about a non-provable belief system. I don't think anyone has been patronising on here, but maybe I have been rather flippant about some of the stories in the Bible. If so,I'm truly sorry.

I'm a bit naive to have thought that the new rule about being a member would make this section more gentle and friendly, without detracting from the high level of discussion I've always enjoyed.

Ah well, "Dew yew keep on a-troshing tergether..."

(Norfolk for 'onwards and upwards')

Senoufou

Subject: RE: BS: An Easter Question
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 04 Apr 16 - 06:02 AM

This is very disappointing. As ever, I tend aim my fire at Catholicism in general, mostly confining criticism of individuals to "if the cap fits." Joe comes back after a weekend mini-break (perhaps he missed seeing some of the light-hearted banter that went on while he was away) and before you know it his guns are ablaze, calling me patronising names (gosh, I was a bit weak there with my Holy Joe riposte...) and misrepresenting me (actually, if anything, worse than that: ascribing remarks to me that I've never made). Now he drags Dave in to boot, and he goes for Musket, who hasn't posted for over a week to the thread, and even then hardly in the warlike manner Joe indicates. Keith then wades in and tries to up the ante by confusing belligerence and forthrightness. You have it in a nutshell, Raggytash. And it's significant that the breach of the peace comes from the religious "side." They sure seem to be missing those heresy laws. Bad form, chaps. You can't discuss the pros and cons of religion with believers in one corner and dissidents in the other without being forthright. But you can retain your dignity and cool. That's what we're supposed to be doing in the brave new world, no?

I'll say it again for your benefit, Joe Offer: you don't have to defend your faith in front of me. I've lost count of the number of times I've defended your right to believe what you like, including in this very thread. It's entirely your business. When you decide to propagate it as faith to other people, it might become ours. If you choose to discuss your beliefs in the open, you can expect comeback. Your extensive training should enable you to handle that with a cool head. That's the only place I'm coming from.

Subject: RE: BS: An Easter Question
From: akenaton
Date: 04 Apr 16 - 05:52 AM

Raggytash :0)......but I was actually referring to the current attitudes on abortion and same sex relationships which you alluded to and which are far from "enlightened"

Subject: RE: BS: An Easter Question
From: Raggytash
Date: 04 Apr 16 - 05:44 AM

Sorry Akenaton I should have remembered that there are people here who are not, and never will be, enlightened.

Subject: RE: BS: An Easter Question
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 04 Apr 16 - 05:39 AM

There have been so many such threads.

I thought we were discussing an Easter question. There have not been many such threads about that. Are you saying it is acceptable to bring a persons previous posting history into play instead of addressing the actual points involved?

Subject: RE: BS: An Easter Question
From: akenaton
Date: 04 Apr 16 - 05:36 AM

"enlightened age" (surely some mistake? Ed).

Subject: RE: BS: An Easter Question
From: Raggytash
Date: 04 Apr 16 - 05:02 AM

" I have no desire to defend my faith. I only want to live it. It's the tradition I grew up in, and I like it. It's part of me"

A problem some people on this site have is that most, if not all, religions seeks to set parameters to how even non believers have to live their lives. They seek the opportunity to indoctrinate children into their way of thinking, they seek to control who we can have sex with and the way in which that sex is conducted. They seek to control our lives. Full stop. They tell us fairy tales which they cannot justify and when the stupidity of those are exposed they move the goalposts and say we didn't actually mean that bit ........... here's a new bit.

You can do as you please Joe and good luck to you, but please don't try to pass on your belief to other people it is superfluous in an enlightened age.

Subject: RE: BS: An Easter Question
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 04 Apr 16 - 04:56 AM

There have been so many such threads.
Those Joe mentioned have certainly taken the same belligerent, intolerant position as Steve many, many times before.

(Or will you distance yourself from it now Dave?)

Subject: RE: BS: An Easter Question
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 04 Apr 16 - 04:27 AM

Why bring me into your argument with Steve, Joe? I do not think I have done anything untoward on this thread have I? Why bring Musket into it? He has not even posted here. Seems rather like you have no real answers so you launch a personal attack. Just who is it waging this war? I guess the next action will be to have the last word and then close thread...

Subject: RE: BS: An Easter Question
From: Joe Offer
Date: 04 Apr 16 - 12:52 AM

That's too bad, Steve. If you feel you must talk about religious faith in a combative manner, then I can't talk with you. When I was growing up, I heard all sorts of stuff about defending my faith and dying for my faith, and I didn't quite buy it.

Nowadays, there are neoconservative "apologists" who are experts in doing battle in religious discussions, and they disgust me because their view of faith is shallow, legalistic, and combative - just like yours. When people like you try to box me into a corner to force me to do combat, that turns my stomach.

I have no desire to defend my faith. I only want to live it. It's the tradition I grew up in, and I like it. It's part of me.

You and Musket and Dave the Gnome and a few others are here for only one purpose: to wage war.

You make me sick, all of you.

-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: BS: An Easter Question
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 03 Apr 16 - 10:19 PM

"And, dearest Steve, in case you didn't get the hint,"

What hint?

"insulting my religious tradition is something that I consider to be seriously rude and offensive".

Bad luck. As you know, I consider that religion deserves all the ridicule and offence it gets, which is never enough. And you have no right not to be offended.

" Despite your protestations that in Great Britain, such insults are considered to be friendly banter, I don't think most Britons would agree."

I have never made any such protestation. Stay accurate and keep cool, Joe, is my advice.

"In the U.S. and in most countries, insulting another person's religious tradition is considered to be in bad manners and bad taste, comparable to insulting the person directly. If you don't understand that, perhaps you'd better learn."

Well too bad. Thank goodness we no longer burn people at the stake or cut off their heads for heresy, eh? Cor, that would solve a problem or two!

"I'm quite sure the same holds true in Great Britain. If you want to ask me specific and non-insulting about my religious tradition, that's one thing."

I don't need to ask you. As you may glean, I'm reasonably knowledgeable about Catholicism already.

"If you want to insult what you think to be my religious tradition, that's offensive."

I'm sure you're man enough to handle it. Eight years in a seminary should have provided you with all the answers to cope with an ignorant heathen such as myself. :-)

Keep calm and carry on proselytising!

Subject: RE: BS: An Easter Question
From: Joe Offer
Date: 03 Apr 16 - 09:25 PM

And, dearest Steve, in case you didn't get the hint, insulting my religious tradition is something that I consider to be seriously rude and offensive. Despite your protestations that in Great Britain, such insults are considered to be friendly banter, I don't think most Britons would agree.
In the U.S. and in most countries, insulting another person's religious tradition is considered to be in bad manners and bad taste, comparable to insulting the person directly. If you don't understand that, perhaps you'd better learn. I'm quite sure the same holds true in Great Britain. If you want to ask me specific and non-insulting about my religious tradition, that's one thing. If you want to insult what you think to be my religious tradition, that's offensive.
Whether you like it or not, there are a huge number of Christians, Muslims, Jews, Hindus, Buddhists, and people of other religious traditions in the world. Some of those people may actually possess more wisdom than you have. In the interest of world peace and harmony, it behooves you not to insult them, even though [surprise, surprise!] you may not think the same way they do .
Thank you very much.

-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: BS: An Easter Question
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 03 Apr 16 - 09:23 PM

Sad to know I let my mind stagnate through lack of stimulation - the overwhelming distracting problems of life at the arse end of the economic scale...

.. so I'm finding this thread an excellent refresher course...

cheers mudcat mates....

Just set the timer to record a Discovery / History channel docudrama about Judas.. The bit I saw earlier looked very good.

I really do think the betrayal and execution story is excellent drama.
Whether entirely fictional, or inspired by fragments of a true story,
it's powerful and tragic..

Like I said before, I enjoy the tradition of watching a Jesus movie at easter time.

Subject: RE: BS: An Easter Question
From: Joe Offer
Date: 03 Apr 16 - 09:01 PM

Steviebaby sez: Well, I think that the Church has to move goalposts constantly in order to try to retain some semblance of credibility.

That's right, Steve. Changing our thinking with the times is something we all have to do, isn't it? If our thinking gets stale, we die.

...and go round and round in the circle game.


-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: An Easter Question
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 03 Apr 16 - 07:51 PM

.. so just how long ago was the Age of Reason and Enlightenment....????

"God is dead"

"If God does not exist, it would be necessary to invent him."


etc.. etc.. etc...

It's well over 3 decades ago since I was getting a good education attending seminars, and writing essays on all that stuff
in Moral Philosophy modules of my Degree....

Subject: RE: BS: An Easter Question
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 03 Apr 16 - 07:17 PM

"Dearest Steve"

Patronise me at your peril, Holy Joe. I don't take kindly. OK?

"we're all enlightened people here"

Enlightened people don't believe in God, I'm afraid.

" I don't think anyone here has argued that religious people are special or that they have a monopoly on virtue. "

No but you don't half go on about your sacred treasures, etc., and get cross when we demur. That means you think you have something special. Take it from me, you don't.

"But all deserve to be respected and tolerated,"

I respect your right to believe whatever nonsense you want to believe. I believe in a good deal of nonsense myself, as it happens. But I don't foist Liverpool FC on you. You foist your nonsense on other people - and tell them that it contains deeper truths. That's just wicked. And that does not only not deserve respect, it deserves the strongest possible condemnation.

"All have something to contribute to the diversity of this world."

Your faith militates against the understanding of the beauty and diversity of this world by imposing a terrible and useless explanation on it. The best thing you could ever do to contribute to that understanding would be to consign your improbable God to the sidelines and, for a change, start searching for what's really true.

Subject: RE: BS: An Easter Question
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 03 Apr 16 - 06:59 PM

Well, I think that the Church has to move goalposts constantly in order to try to retain some semblance of credibility. Rules about eating meat, doing your Easter duties, getting kids baptised as quickly as possible for fear of eternal Limbo, and the rules on contraception, etc., have to be slackened, not through any enlightenment on the Church's part (there's not much of that in a setup that makes saints out of evil buggers like John-Paul II and Mother Teresa) but because the rules lose the Church more and more credibility as the rest of the world progresses. It started with Galileo, or even earlier, carried on with Darwin and keeps on going, as pews empty, to this day. The Catholic Church is infamous for lagging behind, what with its men of marble at the helm. We will have gay marriage, we will have women priests, we will have married priests, we will have free contraception, we will have women's right to choose, oral sex and masturbation will be virtuous and none of anybody else's business. Especially the business of unmarried men in frocks. You embrace these modern things, the right things, or you lose your Church. Make your minds up and do it quickly and with good grace.

Subject: RE: BS: An Easter Question
From: Joe Offer
Date: 03 Apr 16 - 06:52 PM

Religious people aren't as certain as they used to be about what happens after death. But I think many would say that they believe that somehow, it will all be OK after death. They see something beyond, but they don't know what it is.

And Steve Shaw, still trying to defend his right to attack, says:

Well, apart from forcing the point yet again about your sacred and treasured things, you could've been talking about the values of every atheist I know. There is absolutely nothing special about religious traditions, and there's plenty wrong with every one of them. Religion has no monopoly on virtue. In many ways, the opposite.

Dearest Steve, we're all enlightened people here. I don't think anyone here has argued that religious people are special or that they have a monopoly on virtue. Neither are atheists. But all deserve to be respected and tolerated, and not derided or redefined. All have something to contribute to the diversity of this world.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: An Easter Question
From: DMcG
Date: 03 Apr 16 - 06:26 PM

I'd go further, Joe: the whole concept of goalpost is misleading. You can see how the history might have played out. You start from the golden rule of loving God and your neighbour,(whether in Christianity or not). Then someone with a binary sort of mind asks how you know you are giving God enough attention. Equally black and white clergy then start inventing rules saying no meat on Friday (taking the example above). Next someone asks what happens if I break the rule? So the legalistically minded start setting punishments and rewards and the whole thing develops into a whole mess of rules and regulations for no real reason except to transform the golden rule - which is necessarily entirely dependant on the exact circumstance of that particular person in that precise situation - into a set of rules and regulations that are completely rigid and don't take the situation into account at all.

So to my mind if 'moving the goalposts' is getting rid of some of this well meant but ultimately obstructive legal dross to get back to the central commandments, it can only be a good thing. Sorry to everyone, in or out of the church, who likes nice clear rules, but we are talking about life, and life isn't like that.

Subject: RE: BS: An Easter Question
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 03 Apr 16 - 06:15 PM

Well, apart from forcing the point yet again about your sacred and treasured things, you could've been talking about the values of every atheist I know. There is absolutely nothing special about religious traditions, and there's plenty wrong with every one of them. Religion has no monopoly on virtue. In many ways, the opposite.

Subject: RE: BS: An Easter Question
From: Greg F.
Date: 03 Apr 16 - 06:14 PM

But yes, there are exceptions - lots of them.

There may be more exceptions than you think, Joe, considering the 57 anti-abortion laws passed by the several states in 2015, and the close to 300 abortion restictions thay're passed since 2010.

Subject: RE: BS: An Easter Question
From: Joe Offer
Date: 03 Apr 16 - 05:51 PM

Raggy says: Strange the way religion moves the goal posts at regular intervals.

And I'm rather glad it does move the goal posts. Other thinking changes with the times - why not religious thinking? Churches are beginning to realize that arcane theological disagreements really don't make any difference, so many don't bother about them very much. They're more interested in what's the basic purpose of every religion: appreciation of the earth and earth's creatures, which most religions deem to be a gift from the Source of Being, a gift to be treasured and protected.

Yes, there are religious people who deem the earth to be something to be exploited, and people other than themselves as enemies to be defeated. I don't think that's the intent of most church people, however. But yes, there are exceptions - lots of them.

And many people of faith are beginning to see their faith as a tradition, rather than as a "religion." They just are beginning to see that their traditions and rituals are built on sacred, treasured myths that may not necessarily be factual - but may be sacred treasure nonetheless.

The religious people I know are most interested in raising their children, caring for their aging parents, and building a safe and peaceful community. As they always have, they do these things within the context of a religious tradition, but I think that can be a wonderful thing - especially if members of a community have a wide diversity of traditions to share and celebrate.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: An Easter Question
From: DMcG
Date: 03 Apr 16 - 05:16 PM

Well, on londoncoins.co.uk at the moment is a ten shilling note for £160

Subject: RE: BS: An Easter Question
From: Raggytash
Date: 03 Apr 16 - 04:14 PM

Bloody hell !!

See what living in Yorkshire has done to me ...............

Subject: RE: BS: An Easter Question
From: Raggytash
Date: 03 Apr 16 - 04:11 PM

Careful Dave, he wants it in 4 half dollars, that will cost you £2.41.

Subject: RE: BS: An Easter Question
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 03 Apr 16 - 03:47 PM

OK, Steve. Send me your bank details and I will credit your account 10 bob;-)

Subject: RE: BS: An Easter Question
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 03 Apr 16 - 03:17 PM

Er, Dave, I was pretty warm. Ten bob please or I'll go thinking you're a bloody tyke.

Subject: RE: BS: An Easter Question
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 03 Apr 16 - 01:16 PM

Nah, no one got it. Part of the playground repertoire was walking with a limp singing "Awky duck, Awky duck. I've broke my leg and I can't get up."

The tune is well known. Can't really describe it. Laurel and Hardy piece maybe?

Subject: RE: BS: An Easter Question
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 03 Apr 16 - 01:02 PM

Could ask this feller
Jim CARROLL

The Wee Duck
I had a wee duck when I lived in Drummuck,
And I ne'er had good luck since I parted the land,
For some hungry thief took a longing for beef,
And to steal my wee duck he invented a plan.
At the head of my bed, where my swaddy she fed,
And one morning in May, and it long before day,
When I looked where she lay, alas she was stole!

Chorus
Och, och! and a naddy, my darling big swaddy!
Och, och! and a naddy, anuck and anee!

My duck was true blood as she waddled through mud
She was fat as a crud and her wings she did shake;
She was blue in the neck, ay, and broad in the back
And double related to Flaherty's drake.
Her eggs they were blue, most charming to view,
Some night she laid two! Oh, and relate it with grief,
May the curse of the dumb and orphan that's blind
Be together combined and light down on the thief!

Chorus
Och, och! and a naddy, my darling big swaddy!
Och, och! and a naddy, anuck and anee!

I curse him again (I cannot refrain)
nd you'll all say "Amen" when I finish my prayer ¯
May the bee and the wasp and the ape and the asp
Be his daily companion through the market and the fair!
May the weasel and the rat build their nests in his hat!
May the eel ever bite him, and everything fright him,
The monster that murdered my beautiful duck.

Chorus
Och, och! and a naddy, my darling big swaddy!
Och, och! and a naddy, anuck and anee!

Subject: RE: BS: An Easter Question
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 03 Apr 16 - 12:35 PM

"or the sound of another duck quacking back ?"
Damn - never thought of that - back to the carving block.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: An Easter Question
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 03 Apr 16 - 10:56 AM

What if a duck feeds back at high echo settings...???

Subject: RE: BS: An Easter Question
From: frogprince
Date: 03 Apr 16 - 10:48 AM

How do you know whether that's the echo of a duck quack, or the sound of another duck quacking back ?

Subject: RE: BS: An Easter Question
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 03 Apr 16 - 03:46 AM

"We could ask Jim.."
Well- since you ask.....!!
My grandparents lived in Stoke on Trent and when I was a child one of the bastard pottery firms took to dumping surplus glazing paint in the canal, which caused the many swans to try and scratch their back, the result being that they swam in circles.
Never heard the saying used about lame kids - we weren't cruel like that in Liverpool; we just beat them up and threw away their crutches.
Ducks quacks do echo though.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: An Easter Question
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 02 Apr 16 - 05:58 PM

We could ask Jim... I believe it was a cruel epithet used for kids with a limp or something, especially oop north. And Jimmy Miller could be involved...

I claim my ten bob and I'll have it in four half dollars please.

Subject: RE: BS: An Easter Question
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 02 Apr 16 - 02:51 PM

Steve - :-D

I will test it out one day. For now I will relate that I was outvoted in naming him. He is known as 'Hobbles' by the family, which I think is rather cruel. I wanted to call him 'Awky'. 10 bob to who can tell me why :-)

Subject: RE: BS: An Easter Question
From: Senoufou
Date: 02 Apr 16 - 01:37 PM

Quite agree - lots to be happy about. We have a regular large pheasant called Mr Magnificent, and he came into our garden today in all his beautiful Spring plumage. He absolutely shone, golden and glorious. And our enormous village swans did their usual annoying trick of standing right in the middle of the road like twits, while we all tried to usher them to the side. Once there, they always waddle back and do it again, the horrors.

It's so true, we have tons to rejoice about, and in many ways, life here is heaven enough. I've even got a bit of a tan from sitting on our garden bench in the sun. I might even buy a bikini....er.... no, not such a good idea...

Subject: RE: BS: An Easter Question
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 02 Apr 16 - 10:40 AM

So, Dave, we know that the Pope's a Catholic, that bears shit in the woods (I saw it on an Attenborough).... so now all it needs is for you, seeing as how you have the wherewithal, to answer the final question:

...Do one-legged ducks swim in circles? I can give you a few minutes to blow your paddling pool up if you like...

Subject: RE: BS: An Easter Question
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 02 Apr 16 - 10:26 AM

Glad to see that this thread has gone a lot more positive again:-) It's spring. We have daffodils growing, lambs in the field across the road and our one legged duck from last year has started visiting again. So, we have plenty of new life and at least one old timer like me has survived another winter. Most of us on here have plenty to be happy about so let's celebrate that :-)

Subject: RE: BS: An Easter Question
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 02 Apr 16 - 10:04 AM

ditto - wot steve said...

plus - and on top of all that...

what are the chances of anyone ever meeting that other one individual in millions who you can bond with happily for the rest of your life...????

.. gotta be grateful me and the mrs seem to tolerate each other so well for as long as we have...

.. and, if that's not enough, she's also best mates with my mum...

Putting all these infinite collisions of possibilities into perspective, can't really complain about my lack of financial success or purpose in life..

.. not even my irritable bowels.... 😜

It wouldn't even have occurred to me to worry about qualifying for a premium afterlife
if not for the early childhood brainwashing at C of E infant & primary school,
and all the diffuse indoctrination in wider early 60s provincial small town British society...

Subject: RE: BS: An Easter Question
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 02 Apr 16 - 08:01 AM

I've always found the concepts of afterlife and reincarnation very intriguing, even though I ultimately dismiss both ideas out of hand. Just think of the hundreds-of-trillions-to-one chance of your existing at all. Your father produced hundreds of millions of sperms every day - every day - and your mother had tens of thousands of eggs at the ready. If that wasn't enough, multiply that by their parents, then by their parents....go right back to the dawn of life. Yet you're here. You made it. The chance of you being you was vanishingly infinitesimal. Yet here you are. You're a winner. And if you're reading this on an expensive computer in a wealthy western country, and you have reasonable health and a good life with family or friends, there's plenty of icing on your cake, even though not everything will be perfect.

So what do we do? Why, that isn't enough. We want more! We want another life after this one! We can't believe that we've already had more than our share of good fortune. Not only that, we want the next life to be infinitely better! Floating up there with angels in God's divine presence!

Well I have a better way of thinking about it. I thank my lucky stars that I'm here at all, I'm happy to be here and I want to make the best of it. Lusting after even more stops me from doing that. Instead of enjoying life and searching for what's really true, I find I have to conform to lots of rules invented in order to control me by weird men in Rome or elsewhere (it always seems to be men) and I have to worry that, unless I do the right things, I won't get the afterlife I want. Living like that is not making the best of it. It's a pretty dismal prospect, in fact.

"There's probably no God. Now stop worrying and enjoy your life." Now where did I read that...

Subject: RE: BS: An Easter Question
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 02 Apr 16 - 05:20 AM

"As a church member I am such evidence myself."

Not necessarily. It isn't evidence just because you say it is. For all we know, you could be a rabid atheist who sits in the Sunday pew conjuring up the plot of your next novel. Rather, by thy fruits shall we know thee. :-)