BS: American English usages taking over Brit

Subject: RE: BS: American English usages taking over Brit
From: Old Vermin
Date: 30 Oct 09 - 03:44 PM

Not necessarily an Americanism, and pleasant enough, but my late mother-in-law used to refer to the utility area next to the kitchen as the caboosh - or perhaop kaboosh - never saw it spelt. This was where a boiler or two was and clothes were dried or aired.

Also heard it from my parents as being the guards-van on, probably, a Canadian train.

And the expression 'the whole caboosh' meaning the complete works, whole shooting-match, whole issue, usually in the context of some degree of catastrophe.

Still extant?

Subject: RE: BS: American English usages taking over Brit
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 30 Oct 09 - 03:25 PM

Maybe so - but if so, it's not modern bureaucracy. The Shorter Oxford English Dictionary dates that sense ("In the space of time that immediately follows, in a little while, before long, shortly") as 1566...

Subject: RE: BS: American English usages taking over Brit
From: meself
Date: 30 Oct 09 - 03:14 PM

The change in meaning of the British "presently" strikes me as Orwellian, if not Monty-Python-esque, and must have been a product of bureaucracy:

"Oh, yes, of course I said your application was being dealt with presently. Did you think that meant 'at present'? Why, that's not at all what 'presently' means - 'presently' means, um, 'in a little while'."

"No, it doesn't!"

"Yes, it does! It means 'soon'; it means 'any day now'; it means 'don't worry, I'll get 'round to it'; it means 'patience is a virtue' .... "

Subject: RE: BS: American English usages taking over Brit
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 30 Oct 09 - 03:01 PM

"Presently" is one of the many words where the American usage is a great deal older than the modern English one.

The Shorter Oxford English Dictionary gives "presently", meaning "At the present time", as occurring in 1485.

Subject: RE: BS: American English usages taking over Brit
From: artbrooks
Date: 30 Oct 09 - 02:50 PM

That's true here as well, come to think of it. The organization that includes the Army and Navy is the duhFENCE dePARTment, but the two parts of a (American) football team are the OFFence and the DEEfence.

Subject: RE: BS: American English usages taking over Brit
From: meself
Date: 30 Oct 09 - 02:46 PM

In Canada, if not in the U.S., DEEfence is often used a noun in sporting rhetoric, as in, "The DEEfence gave it 110% last night; there were only ten shots on net".

Subject: RE: BS: American English usages taking over Brit
From: artbrooks
Date: 30 Oct 09 - 02:37 PM

My wife and I were camped outside of Carlsbad, New Mexico a few years ago, and went into town for some breakfast. There was a couple from, I think, Yorkshire at the next table, and the man was becoming very frustrated trying to get the waitress to understand his needs. Finally Jenn, who was raised with a grandmother from Nottingham, told her that when he said "orf n'orf", he was asking for half and half for his coffee.

DeeCADE (the past tense of deCAY) is what garbage did.    The accent is on the 2nd sylLABle. DEHcade is 10 years.   One might occasionally hear a TV "comedian" say DEEcade or DEEfence in a misguided attempt at humor.

Subject: RE: BS: American English usages taking over Brit
From: meself
Date: 30 Oct 09 - 02:00 PM

Once on a little trip across the river to Detroit - from Windsor, which is in Canada - I decided to buy a pack of cigars - which I pronounce, "sih-GARZ". The Black lady working the counter kept asking me to repeat my request; finally, with enough of my repetition and pointing and pantomiming, she reached for a pack of stogies - saying, "Oh! You mean SEE-gawz!"

Subject: RE: BS: American English usages taking over Brit
From: Bettynh
Date: 30 Oct 09 - 01:32 PM

"In Kansas, grocery stores 'sacked' your purchases...here they 'bag' them"

A few years ago I was travelling cross-country by car and stopped for groceries in Oklahoma. (I was raised just outside Boston and my grandparents are from New Hampshire, so my Downeast accent is pretty strong.) I went through checkout but I couldn't find one item. I asked "Where can I find a bag of ice?" and met a blank stare. The manager and another clerk were called over to solve the problem. Blank stares. I finally spotted the ice cooler in front of the store and made my purchase, but everyone was still pretty uncomfortable about what had just been said. I think now that I would have had better result if I'd asked for a "sack of ah's," but I'm not absolutely sure of that. That was 30 years ago, and I'd bet that we would be able to puzzle out the meaning now, due to TV voices. Not about the British, I know....

How about this one:
While riding on the subway in Boston I overheard a man who thought he'd figured out the American/British habit of shortening place names like Worcester (Wusta) and Gloucester (Glosta). He asked for directions to Dorchta. Unfortunately, nobody (even the British, I checked) shortens Dorchester in that way.

Subject: RE: BS: American English usages taking over Brit
From: CarolC
Date: 30 Oct 09 - 12:49 PM

DEEkade is not US pronunciation. I've never heard it before in my life.

Seems like people outside of the US are assuming that if there is a word usage or pronunciation that they are not familiar with, they assume it's from the US. It looks to me like a lot of the time, the word usage or pronunciation does not come from here.

Subject: RE: BS: American English usages taking over Brit
From: Stu
Date: 30 Oct 09 - 12:48 PM

DEEfence has taken over from defence.

Subject: RE: BS: American English usages taking over Brit
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 30 Oct 09 - 12:48 PM

Crow Sister, as to your comment,

DEEkayed instead of DEHkayed.
Ten years ("it'll take a decade to decompose") is not the same as something rotten ("after ten years it finally decayed"),

I must demur. In my nearly eight DEH-kades of life (two more days!) in the US, I have never heard that ten-year period referred to as a DEEkayed. Don't blame it on us the US!

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: BS: American English usages taking over Brit
From: Lighter
Date: 30 Oct 09 - 12:38 PM

I have never heard an American say DEEkade in any context.

Subject: RE: BS: American English usages taking over Brit
From: Bill D
Date: 30 Oct 09 - 12:30 PM

I agree, Crow Sister... but it took me quite a while to overcome my dislike of the SOUND of KILLO-meter. kill-om-a-ter just sounded more 'pleasant'. *shrug*... I now say it correctly, and am getting used to it.

I DO, however, refuse to say Al-you-MIN-i-um.....

Subject: RE: BS: American English usages taking over Brit
From: Ebbie
Date: 30 Oct 09 - 12:30 PM

Who is responsible for the ubiquitous 'tunafish'? Is there a tunaBEEF? I say 'tuna', period.

Subject: RE: BS: American English usages taking over Brit
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 30 Oct 09 - 12:24 PM

A couple of American forms of pronunciation that do tend to grate on me whenever I hear them from BBC news presenters:

DEEkayed instead of DEHkayed.
Ten years ("it'll take a decade to decompose") is not the same as something rotten ("after ten years it finally decayed").

Also

KillOHM-itehr instead of KILLO-meater.
We have a "millimetre", a "centimetre", and a "kilometre" - all measurements involving the metre.

It's not a matter of great concern! Just one of those little pointless things..

Subject: RE: BS: American English usages taking over Brit
From: Bill D
Date: 30 Oct 09 - 12:10 PM

hmmm.. in Kansas, where I grew up, 'blacktop' was just another term for asphalt, and more often used as a verb when street reconstruction was to be done.

One common difference in usage on both sides of the pond..umm..ocean... is to name items by the most common commercial product name. We have 'Kleenex' and 'Jello'...and when I first worked in a grocery store, I was told to "use a 'Listo'" to mark something...that being the brand of ink marker the store carried.
I'll confess that I was totally confused the first time I saw the term 'Araldite' used in the context of adhesives. I had to do a search to discover it was good old epoxy.
Other instances abound.

Subject: RE: BS: American English usages taking over Brit
From: Stu
Date: 30 Oct 09 - 12:08 PM

"My bad"

What? Your bad what? For Pete's sake.

Subject: RE: BS: American English usages taking over Brit
From: CarolC
Date: 30 Oct 09 - 11:56 AM

I just remembered one of the things we called our outdoor play area in elementary school (in Maryland). The part that was paved was called the "blacktop". I think the rest of it wasn't called anything, except for the part that had the playground equipment, and that part was called by whatever part of it was being referred to (the swings, the monkey bars, the slide, etc.). We might have referred to the softball diamond as something, but I can't remember. Probably the "backstop". In Rhode Island, I don't remember it being called anything except "outside" or "outdoors" or something like that. There was no equipment in my elementary school in RI. Just paved area and grassy area, which included a softball diamond.

Subject: RE: BS: American English usages taking over Brit
From: meself
Date: 30 Oct 09 - 11:54 AM

Uh - whudja say?

Subject: RE: BS: American English usages taking over Brit
From: Abdul The Bul Bul
Date: 30 Oct 09 - 11:51 AM

Well, I'm from Yorkshire and used to trying to understand all you other buggers.
A'reet?
Al

Subject: RE: BS: American English usages taking over Brit
From: Bill D
Date: 30 Oct 09 - 11:44 AM

"Now I always say "lift." Even though he is not lifting me."

In N 'awlins (New Orleans), my mother never got used to her neighbor saying, "I'm going out, can I carry you somewhere?"

In Kansas, grocery stores 'sacked' your purchases...here they 'bag' them. Now, 'bag' sounds more reasonable.
Most of my life I stood 'in line' for a movie (film?), now most people say 'on line'....and many of those from the British Isles say 'queue'. I visualize a 'line' as the assortment of people, one behind the other, not as an imaginary chalk mark on the ground we all stand 'on'.

It's not easy to assimilate it all and make decisions.


I have lived in the American South and in the Mid-West before moving East when I was almost 40. I have heard SO many different ways of describing and naming things and activities that it has sensitized me to my own habits, and I make an effort to use 'reasonably' universal and clear terminology when I have any idea that I might be mis-understood.
   I am a bit puzzled by those who either don't KNOW any other way to speak, or cling stubbornly to "their" ways, no matter what the occasion or whether they will be understood or not.

Subject: RE: BS: American English usages taking over Brit
From: CarolC
Date: 30 Oct 09 - 11:41 AM

I'm trying to imagine a high school having a schoolyard. My high school had a track, tennis courts, a football (US kind of football) field, a soccer field, vollyball courts, a courtyard that was used as an outdoor smoking lounge, and a lot of parking lots, but no place that would be called a "schoolyard" or even any part of the day when the students would go outside in a groups to collectively hang out like we did for recess in elementary school. We didn't have anything like that in junior high (now called "middle school"), either.

Subject: RE: BS: American English usages taking over Brit
From: meself
Date: 30 Oct 09 - 11:37 AM

You must admit, though, that "presently" meaning "at present" is logical, whereas "presently" meaning "not at present, but in a little while", is not. It is my impression that the former is North American usage (and therefore, we all agree, inferior, at best suspect, and in all likelihood, wrong).

Subject: RE: BS: American English usages taking over Brit
From: Ringer
Date: 30 Oct 09 - 11:24 AM

"Presently," to mean "currently" currently pees me off (though I don't know whether America is responsible or merely ignorant Britain). When I was young, "presently" meant (and in my mouth still means) "in a little while."

Subject: RE: BS: American English usages taking over Brit
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 30 Oct 09 - 10:58 AM

Surely it just means a diferent packet, and maybe that the price has gone up.

Subject: RE: BS: American English usages taking over Brit
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 30 Oct 09 - 10:14 AM

Mr Happy, I think "all new" means, in effect, that there has been a thoroughgoing redesign of the product. And/or (less likely) that EVERY feature has been changed/improved. As opposed to "a reissue of the old model, with merely some cosmetic changes".

But then, you knew that.

Granted, "all new" does sound strange.

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: BS: American English usages taking over Brit
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 30 Oct 09 - 09:04 AM

Oh how many times have my friends and colleagues in the UK chuckled at me every time I stated "my partner will give me a ride home."

Now I always say "lift." Even though he is not lifting me.

Subject: RE: BS: American English usages taking over Brit
From: Bat Goddess
Date: 30 Oct 09 - 07:56 AM

"Necessary room" is very (antiquated, though) Maine...and possibly other states in New England.

As for the original terminology on this thread, I grew up with BOTH (in the west 'burbs of Milwaukee in the heart of the Midwest).

Linn

Subject: RE: BS: American English usages taking over Brit
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 30 Oct 09 - 07:05 AM

If someone said "riding" I'd probably assume it was a bike, unless I knew they had a horse. And I'd normally be right.

Subject: RE: BS: American English usages taking over Brit
From: GUEST,hello
Date: 30 Oct 09 - 06:50 AM

if you want to speak American then move there

Subject: RE: BS: American English usages taking over Brit
From: Jos
Date: 30 Oct 09 - 04:44 AM

To me,'three to seven' implies that whatever it is will stop at seven o'clock; 'three through seven' suggests that it will continue at least until seven, and may carry on beyond.

The expression I find irritating (for no very good reason, I admit) is 'horseback riding'. If someone says 'riding' I assume they mean 'on a horse' unless they, or the context, has made it clear that they mean a bike, camel, bus etc.

Subject: RE: BS: American English usages taking over Brit
From: Gurney
Date: 30 Oct 09 - 02:10 AM

In godsowncountry, 'ahead of' is becoming popular among 'media people' rather than 'before.'
'Through' (or even Thru!) instead of 'to,' as in 'available three through seven...'

Subject: RE: BS: American English usages taking over Brit
From: Seamus Kennedy
Date: 30 Oct 09 - 12:18 AM

At the heel of the hunt, I'm no longer going to use "at the end of the day".
And, in closing, I probably won't use "finally" either.

Subject: RE: BS: American English usages taking over Brit
From: meself
Date: 29 Oct 09 - 11:27 PM

Does "shit-house" qualify as a euphemism?

By the way, when I was a kid in Ontario, "kybo" was the popular term for that structure. Maybe still is. "Biffy" was a term common in Manitoba. Maybe still is.

Subject: RE: BS: American English usages taking over Brit
From: Alice
Date: 29 Oct 09 - 11:23 PM

For some reason, "across the pond" makes me cringe.


Yes, we always said "overseas".

Subject: RE: BS: American English usages taking over Brit
From: Rowan
Date: 29 Oct 09 - 10:38 PM

As do I, Bill.

"Jump rope" I've never heard in Oz, and the "skip rope" was a rarity too, in my experience. When in primary school I always heard it as "skippy", as in "let's play skippy" and the rope was always a skipping rope, whether long or short.

But I suspect changes started happening when the TV series "Skippy" (aka "Skippy, the bush kangaroo) and its theme song became popular. Which was well after my school days.

Cheers, Rowan

Subject: RE: BS: American English usages taking over Brit
From: Bill D
Date: 29 Oct 09 - 10:29 PM

(There are many 'playgrounds' that have no association with schools...and there are parts of schoolgrounds which are not used for play. I use both words in different contexts.)

Subject: RE: BS: American English usages taking over Brit
From: artbrooks
Date: 29 Oct 09 - 10:09 PM

What I find very interesting about this discussion is that some of the words objected to by Brits as Americanisms are words that Americans would consider British! For example, "out of bounds" has been used here at least as long as there has been football, but "off limits" came home with American GIs after WW2.   Another is, as I mentioned above, that both sides claim "playground" and appear to say that "schoolyard" belongs across the pond.   Oh - that's another. Who owns "across the pond"? I grew up saying "overseas.

Subject: RE: BS: American English usages taking over Brit
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 29 Oct 09 - 10:03 PM

"john' often used in U. S. and Canada for the crapper (or should that be Crapper since that was the name of a manufacturer?)- I think that there was a thread on this.

The "outhouse" is fast disappearing.

Subject: RE: BS: American English usages taking over Brit
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 29 Oct 09 - 08:54 PM

Chesterfield for couch. Very Canadian but prob. UK as well

Subject: RE: BS: American English usages taking over Brit
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 29 Oct 09 - 08:53 PM

Going by origional meanomngs, the word toilet is to do with washing etc, jusand the same goes for "lavatory". In this context they are the precise equivalent of "washroom". Virtually all the terms in common use are some kind of euphemism.

American euphemisms are no dafter than British euphemism and no less. So long as we can avoid the kind of ambiguity that leaves us confused on occasions when we urgently need not to be confused, it doesn't really matter what we call the facilities.

Back in the Middle Ages the term "necessarium", the necessary place, was in use, and that seems pretty appropriate. Perhaps we could revive it.

Subject: RE: BS: American English usages taking over Brit
From: Rowan
Date: 29 Oct 09 - 08:53 PM

In my Melbourne youth, playground was the term used in primary school, while schoolyard was the term used when we got to high school. Even so, "Yard Duty" was what teachers were doing when rostered to supervise students at recess and lunch time. Even now (in our New England) I hear the same uses in the same contexts.

In Oz, we get the same invasion of US terminology and it has a similar grating effect on those who notice it as MtheGM describes. I suspect most of us take the British influence in our heritage for granted but bridle at what we call Americanisms; this may have some roots in the presence of US troops here in large numbers during WWII (which we shared with the UK) and the perceived behaviour of Douglas Macarthur, which we had all to ourselves.

But I have sympathy for those who try to maintain the regional diversities of cultural heritage.

Cheers, Rowan

Subject: RE: BS: American English usages taking over Brit
From: SharonA
Date: 29 Oct 09 - 08:13 PM

Acorn4, just don't put the Lego up your nose!

Subject: RE: BS: American English usages taking over Brit
From: Acorn4
Date: 29 Oct 09 - 08:12 PM

It's the using of words like lego bricks that gets up my nose.

The other day I heard someone talking about "upskilling" an athletice team.

Subject: RE: BS: American English usages taking over Brit
From: SharonA
Date: 29 Oct 09 - 08:11 PM

"Is 'Train station' rather than 'Railway station' an Americanism...?"

Yes. Train station or, less commonly, railroad station, unless one is singing "One Toke Over the Line". :-)

Same goes for playground. It's a schoolyard only in the Paul Simon song!

Sharon in southeastern Pennsylvania

Subject: RE: BS: American English usages taking over Brit
From: Lighter
Date: 29 Oct 09 - 07:57 PM

In New York too. "Schoolyard bully" sounds to me like a journalistic phrase. At any rate, my feeling is that "playground" is at least as common in the U.S. (though to me "playground bully" sounds decidedly odd). To "skip" rope sounds as right to me as to "jump," though the rope itself is always a "jump-rope." I think "off limits" replaced "out of bounds" only after WWII.

"Back in the day" bugs me because for some reason every TV newsperson suddenly began using it at the same time for no good reason. I still prefer "back in the old days" or, as my grandparents used to say, "in olden days" (or "times").

Subject: RE: BS: American English usages taking over Brit
From: Alice
Date: 29 Oct 09 - 07:23 PM

In Montana, we say Playground (not schoolyard).

Subject: RE: BS: American English usages taking over Brit
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 29 Oct 09 - 06:50 PM

"for free"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Subject: RE: BS: American English usages taking over Brit
From: Jos
Date: 29 Oct 09 - 06:17 PM

Wouldn't Americans say "railroad station"?

"Lavatory" technically means a place for washing, and the

Toilet of Venus

suggests that "toilet" may also be a euphemism rather than a "fixture".