BS: 58% Say The Rich Deserve Their Wealth

Subject: RE: BS: 58% Say The Rich Deserve Their Wealth
From: Don Firth
Date: 08 Sep 12 - 06:42 PM

Pdq, I don't know what your religious beliefs are, if any, but Reagan's father was Catholic and his mother was a member of the Disciples of Christ church. As a adult, Reagan was a Presbyterian.

And as you undoubtedly know, Romney is a Mormon.

Tithing—giving ten percent of one's income to one's church—is either a requirement of membership of many churches, or at the very least, is sternly recommended.

Men as wealthy as Romney and Reagan who did NOT tithe would receive no end of grief from the churches to which they belong.

Being a Rebublican or a Democrat has absolutely nothing to do with it.

Now, if they gave MORE than 10%, to include good causes OTHER than their churches, THEN, I might be impressed.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: 58% Say The Rich Deserve Their Wealth
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 08 Sep 12 - 04:56 PM

""Don, he wasn't worth 90 million dollars, he had 90 million dollars. ;-) You can't measure a person's worth in dollars.""

You are not paying attention LH. That is exactly what Corporate America does, and especially the GOP.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: 58% Say The Rich Deserve Their Wealth
From: pdq
Date: 08 Sep 12 - 04:48 PM

"...Yeah, I can feel fairly good about guys like that. They've actually lifted their heads out of the cash box and looked around." ~ Propaganda Minister Firth

Mitt Romney and Ronald Reagan each donated 10% of their before-tax income to their respective churches. They did that every year for their entire adult lives.

One year, that was near $3 million for Romney.

Worth a mention?

Of course not, they are/were Republicans. Not your tribe.

Subject: RE: BS: 58% Say The Rich Deserve Their Wealth
From: Don Firth
Date: 08 Sep 12 - 04:19 PM

Do Gates and Turner deserve their wealth? First question one might ask is "What did they do to earn or acquire it?"

Next question:   "What are they DOING with it?"

Are they using it to attempt to improve the world? Or are they removing it from the economy and just shipping it all off to bank accounts in Switzerland or the Cayman Islands?

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: 58% Say The Rich Deserve Their Wealth
From: Don Firth
Date: 08 Sep 12 - 04:09 PM

Little Hawk, that's kind of nit-picking. I was not saying that Bill Gates, the person, is worth $90 billion, as contrasted with a lady I know of who lives in her car with two small children, who, in those terms, is worth no more than the small salary she receives working at a nearby Kentucky Fried Chicken drive-inn.

Actually, in purely material terms, they're both worth about $1.75 if chemically rendered!

I don't think anybody means that. It is merely a shorthand way of referring to the size of their bank account or other holdings, if any.

I don't know what point you were trying to make with this, other that you seem to be implying that I said something that I did not.

The rest of your post is right on point.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: 58% Say The Rich Deserve Their Wealth
From: Little Hawk
Date: 08 Sep 12 - 03:42 PM

Don, he wasn't worth 90 million dollars, he had 90 million dollars. ;-) You can't measure a person's worth in dollars.

Not really taking issue with what you said on any personal basis...I just can't help but react negatively to that expression "he's worth so-and-so many dollars" when it's said about anyone. It's a very odd use of language to my ears, and it says a lot about the money-worshipping society that gave it birth.

****

In regards to the subject of this thread...

It's common for people to envy those who have great wealth. It's common for people to look down their noses at those who have very little money...and also to fear them. Nasty things are often said (or thought) in both cases, but that has no bearing one way or another on basic issues of social justice. A nation that cares about social justice will try hard to ensure that everyone has a good start in life, affordable housing, job opportunities, enough food, medical care, and a good education.

How is that done? Through various forms of socialism, that's how. You can't do it without having some socialist institutions and services in place which have been set up by the entire community through government, churches, and other community structures. If you have capitalism flourishing alongside these socialist institutions, so much the better, because the two go together "like a horse and carriage". This is not given credence in the USA, because the very word "socialism" has been turned into a mythical boogeyman to scare American voters who apparently have no real idea what socialism is in the first place, even though it's an integral part of their lives and always has been.

Subject: RE: BS: 58% Say The Rich Deserve Their Wealth
From: Don Firth
Date: 08 Sep 12 - 02:12 PM

For whatever you may think of Bill Gates, at one time he was worth up to $90 billion dollars. He was basically a geek, with his nose perpetually on a computer screen, trying to think up new software he could sell. Then he married Melissa and she humanized him. Between Melissa and his father, Bill Gates, Sr., giving him the occasional dope-slap, they formed the "Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation," which has given away billions to a number of good causes. His personal fortune is now down to about $30 billion, and is continuously shrinking. Not because MicroSoft is losing money, but because he's giving it away!

Ted Turner, at one time, was worth $3 billion—a relative pauper compared to Bill Gates—and he gave away (so far) $1 billion. When criticized for this by some of his fellow billionaires, Turner responded, "Who the hell NEEDS that much money, anyway!!?" He also built a sports stadium in Atlanta. Unlike most such sports stadiums, no taxes were assessed from the citizens. Turner built it on his own dime

Yeah, I can feel fairly good about guys like that. They've actually lifted their heads out of the cash box and looked around.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: 58% Say The Rich Deserve Their Wealth
From: Little Hawk
Date: 08 Sep 12 - 01:08 PM

Routine denigration of another person's intelligence and character is not a particularly illuminating way of conducting a debate, but it seems to be the main weapon left in the armoury of a few sour individuals who always show up on these threads. Are they honest enough to admit it or see themselves in the mirror? Naw....they're too busy defending their "tribal" identity to ever have the vision to take a step back and rate their own behaviour objectively. Just like bullies in a schoolyard, ganging up on the "weird kid".

The tribe even has its idiot savant, a man who rarely speaks, but when he does it is with the weight of an historic grandeur that commands immediate respect from the tribe, and he says something innately clever like, "YO...JACKASS! BLOW ME."

Why would anyone wish to belong to such a tribe?

****

Sawzaw - I still don't know if Bill Gates deserves his wealth or not. How can I say? He's an individual, and I don't know enough about his life to be able to say. But what I do think is that when a society's rich elite grow steadily richer and its many poor grow steadily poorer and its middle class withers away, that society is heading down the road to collapse or to revolution. History bears me out on that.

Subject: RE: BS: 58% Say The Rich Deserve Their Wealth
From: Sawzaw
Date: 08 Sep 12 - 11:06 AM

Bobert:

Subject: RE: BS: 58% Say The Rich Deserve Their Wealth
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 08 Sep 12 - 08:49 AM

RE: BS: 58% Say The Rich Deserve Their Wealth

Bobert, let's not shift the main topic THIS TIME!!..So I repeat:

Is this question sorta like, If I write lyrics, and compose a great piece of music, should I be entitled to the Rights, and Royalties??

Just wondering...



GfS

P.S.
And as far as the other, should anyone really consider how a fringe fanatic rates the people he disagrees with??????????????

Subject: RE: BS: 58% Say The Rich Deserve Their Wealth
From: Bobert
Date: 08 Sep 12 - 08:14 AM

Pure BS, GfinS...

On the "Clue Scale" from 0 to 10, with 0 being the most cluless I'd rank your all-star team as follows:

Songwronger - 0

Sawz - 0

Ake - 5 (*)

Gfins - 5

PDQ - 6

LH - 6

999 - 10

(* but not from a lack of trying...)

B;~)

Subject: RE: BS: 58% Say The Rich Deserve Their Wealth
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 07 Sep 12 - 10:57 PM

Is this question sorta like, If I write lyrics, and compose a great piece of music, should I be entitled to the Rights, and Royalties??

Just wondering...

To 'nobody in particular': OK, found you on a thread that I can respond to you....Your video was dead on the money!!!

People have accused me of being you, and vice-versa. Don't be bothered by it...it's just a tactic they do to polarize people away from the truth! I've read some of your posts, as I've scrolled back through the threads...You, Little Hawk, 999, myself(of course), Songwronger, often Sawzaw, akenaton, PDQ, along with others have a clue. The only caution I would say, is NOT to veer off too far to the 'right'.
I have really enjoyed your perspective!

I may not be able to get back to you, for a while, but keep posting!..I'll see them sooner or later.

BTW, are you a musician?

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: 58% Say The Rich Deserve Their Wealth
From: Bobert
Date: 07 Sep 12 - 09:29 AM

There's no "man up" to it, Sawz...

This poll was flawed from the jump... The questions were ill-thought-out to produce a given result...

This is why I really don't give a lot of credence to polls in general... Generally they conducted and/or paid for by folks with a particular point of view...

People who have taken college statistics all know this...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: 58% Say The Rich Deserve Their Wealth
From: Sawzaw
Date: 07 Sep 12 - 07:51 AM

Bobert is still refusing to man up to his hideous error about somewhat agree and somewhat disagree meaning the same thing.

He has used somewhat himself as a measure of something and continues to use it. But he claims it is academic dishonesty to use it in a poll even though MIT, Yale and Harvard use the term.

He says it is like the glass half full or half empty. However how do you describe a glass that is anywhere between half full and full? Somewhat full would be an accurate description.

How can you describe a glass that is anywhere between half full and empty? Somewhat empty would be an accurate description.

So I am waiting for Bobert to act like the highly educated humanitarian person he claims to be and admit his mistake.

Will Bobert respond with personal attacks or intellectual honesty?

Now I like ol' Bobert. His heart is in the right place but he is a hothead. He gets belligerant and blurts out some things that are totally wrong but instead of owning up, he wants to defend the wrong things he says by personally attacking anyone who questions them.

I have never called him stupid or a liar. He is far from stupid and he is just wrong sometimes, not a liar.

Subject: RE: BS: 58% Say The Rich Deserve Their Wealth
From: Sawzaw
Date: 03 Sep 12 - 11:51 AM

Bill Gates is the richest an in America.

Does he deserve his wealth?


___strongly agree

___somewhat agree

___somewhat disagree

___strongly disagree

Subject: RE: BS: 58% Say The Rich Deserve Their Wealth
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 02 Sep 12 - 04:47 PM

""It is an overall USA imperial policy in the world that I'm really concerned about, a policy that's been in effect ever since the end of WWII, and it is being actively pursued by both of the major USA parties.""

It is my belief that you are attempting to bolster a pet argument by extrapolating from an obsolete basis.

You don't know (none of us do) that Obama intends, or ever intended to pursue the line you claim.

The mere fact that he made a very determined attempt at universal health care in the USA is a huge and courageous departure from previous policy in the USA, notwithstanding that obstructive tactics of the GOP watered it down.

This alone flags up a strong indication of a President who isn't afraid to break the mould and go for something better.

His record on war is not of his making. He was handed a situation in which the only thing worse than having troops in Afghanistan would be to withdraw them too soon.

Unless he gets a second term in office with a decent majority in Senate and Congress, we shall never know how much he might have achieved.

All that we DO know really, is that he was and is deliberately prevented from doing anything, good or bad, by a bunch of obstructive arseholes, who don't give two shits about their country or its people, as long as they keep making money out of it.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: 58% Say The Rich Deserve Their Wealth
From: GUEST,nobody in particular
Date: 02 Sep 12 - 02:39 PM

Aside from whatever political persuasion you belong, maybe you could explain why in your last elections, 2008, President Obama's largest contributors were Chase Morgan and Goldman Sachs. This year they are primarily funding the opposition, Romney~Ryan. Little Hawk contends that the bankers own both parties, and therefore, your 'parties' are the same, in that respect.

So, here's a question for you, for either side of political 'beliefs'.
After the elections, and the new people get into office, do you suspect that these financial institutions, who fund the winners, expect special favours in return? Do you suspect that your positions, from one side or the other, might be a product, of what the banking institutions are also funding you to believe? And has it occurred to you that what you are being led to believe, is for the benefit of the people of your country, or the banking institutions?

I happen to believe that Little Hawk is far closer to understanding the powers behind the curtain, and their influences, on the public than many of you. As you charge at each other with non-factual nonsense and half truths, you are missing the true culprit behind the divisions!

I am neither for the Republicans nor the Democrats in your country, but would feel more inclined to support one side or the other, if one of them would just start telling the truth, and the whole truth of how your financial mess occurred, and offered publicly, a truthful remedy to it, and closed the loopholes that caused it to happen in the first place.

Until then, Little Hawk is indeed correct.
I posted a link THREE times that explains your problem quite clearly and accurately. Until your party system embraces the will to take on the real problems, and offer real solutions, then I'd have to say, that you are only living in the fantasy that they charmed you into believing, and your debates amount to nothing, and off the issues.

The rest it's just a matter of time before your system, as a whole, will fall, and fall right into the hands of control of those who purposefully brought it about.

My suggestion to your country is to stop the juvenile posturing and divisive scrapping, and unite as a solid voice with conviction, instead of playing the game that they want you to play, for their benefit!!

Subject: RE: BS: 58% Say The Rich Deserve Their Wealth
From: Little Hawk
Date: 02 Sep 12 - 02:29 PM

What I mean by that is...one of them is officially in power at any given time, but they actually both share it. That's how the system works. They are the right and left hand of the same body, and that body is practicing an imperial agenda in the world....and a fiscally fraudulent agenda both at home and abroad.

Subject: RE: BS: 58% Say The Rich Deserve Their Wealth
From: Little Hawk
Date: 02 Sep 12 - 02:21 PM

Don and Bobert - It is an overall USA imperial policy in the world that I'm really concerned about, a policy that's been in effect ever since the end of WWII, and it is being actively pursued by both of the major USA parties. Period. They both suck up to Israel and support Israel even when almost the entire rest of the world disagrees with what Israel does. They both persecute Iran. They both authorize warfare and invasion of other lands. They both subvert foreign governments, orchestrate regime change, torture prisoners in offshore prisons, arrange assassinations and civil insurrection in other sovereign nations, and they both conduct clandestine operations which are nothing less than outright terrorism. And they both lie to their own public about their real motives.

I am NOT parroting Republican Party PR when I say any of that. Quite the contrary. I am opposing their PR utterly. The only Republican spokesman of any note who essentially agrees with me about what I've said above is Ron Paul, and practically the only Democrat of note who agrees with me about it is Dennis Kucinich.

The problem with your nation is that BOTH those parties are in power. They are partners in international crime on a vast scale.

Subject: RE: BS: 58% Say The Rich Deserve Their Wealth
From: Sawzaw
Date: 02 Sep 12 - 01:10 PM

I can answer the question. The rich deserve their wealth.

Should there be a government agency to decide who deserves what?

Subject: RE: BS: 58% Say The Rich Deserve Their Wealth
From: Ebbie
Date: 02 Sep 12 - 12:40 PM

Me: 12:56
I don't try to answer your question (Do the rich deserve their wealth?) because I have no idea how to answer such a blanket construct. Some inherited their wealth,i.e. they did not earn it and therefore do not deserve it. Some inherited their wealth, added to it and used it in humanitarian efforts. OK, perhaps they deserve it. Some married into it - do they deserve it? I don't know. Frankly, I think it is a stupid question. (I fail to see in what (way) *guts* are involved.)

SZ: 8:10 But you still don't have the guts to answer the question. You want to distract in another direction and make Ad Hominem attacks.

Subject: RE: BS: 58% Say The Rich Deserve Their Wealth
From: Bobert
Date: 02 Sep 12 - 09:00 AM

Go enroll in a Stats course at yer local community college, Sawz... All you are doing is repeating your ignorance...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: 58% Say The Rich Deserve Their Wealth
From: Sawzaw
Date: 02 Sep 12 - 08:19 AM

Bobert attempted to claim that somewhat agree and somewhat disagree meant the same thing and the poll in the original post was therefore bogus.

Then when he realizes he was wrong, he tries to change the subject instead of acting like a man and admitting he was wrong.

Also when you criticize Bobert, he claims it is totally unfair but at the same time he believes he can criticize any one for anything. He can hand it out but he cannot take it.

Subject: RE: BS: 58% Say The Rich Deserve Their Wealth
From: Sawzaw
Date: 02 Sep 12 - 08:10 AM

"I took the 10 from a list of 400 people. It seemed a logical stopping point. Did you want me to list 400 people? More to the point, why did you stop with four?"

Four seemed logical to me. If you want to do 400 Fine.

But you still don't have the guts to answer the question. You want to distract in another direction and make Ad Hominem attacks.

bOBERT ATTEMP

Subject: RE: BS: 58% Say The Rich Deserve Their Wealth
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 02 Sep 12 - 06:37 AM

""Now Obama and his people are in power, and it's them I'm concerned about, cos THEY have the power right now.""

It has obviously escaped your eagle eyed attention, LH, that the above statement isn't within a thousand miles of being true.

They were the people in power initially but, for the majority of this term of office, the republicans have been in power.....the power to prevent!

If you don't see the difference between a party trying to govern in the interests of their country, and a party (due to very stupid voting rules) able and eager to prevent any successful action, purely in the interests, not of the nation, but of the party, then perhaps it is your perspective which is needing re-adjustment.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: 58% Say The Rich Deserve Their Wealth
From: Bobert
Date: 01 Sep 12 - 10:34 PM

Ya' know3,,, It doesn't matter how many folks read yer stuff, LH... What matters is that I take the time to explain to intelligent people how they are being used...

If you think, as the authors of the piece I have referenced, that the Republicans are the problem and sing the "Both Sides Boogie" here then you may be singing it elsewhere... It's dangerous when people with intelligence find themselves parroting propaganda... Hey, if I get you to see it then, even though you don't vote, you won't continue to parrot it here...

Small step??? Yup... We gotta change one mind at a time... Yours is in need a cleaning...

I mean no offense...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: 58% Say The Rich Deserve Their Wealth
From: Little Hawk
Date: 01 Sep 12 - 10:23 PM

I know the Republicans do all kinds of nasty stuff, Bobert. I just don't get how normal political criticism of a Democratic administration from people who are in no way allied TO Republicans equates to things like Republicans sending thugs somewhere to disrupt something.

How many Republicans do you think are reading my comments anyway? Seems to me that there are very few of them on this forum. Am I supposed to be afraid to criticize things Obama does because it might make some Republicans feel happy? A Republican who hates Obama doesn't need me to convince him of anything...his mind's already made up.

Anyway...as I've said time and time again...it's the administration that's in power whose policies I am most concerned about if I am objecting to American policy. When Bush was in power, I was very concerned about him and Cheney and the rest of them and I talked about that. They had the power. Now Obama and his people are in power, and it's them I'm concerned about, cos THEY have the power right now.

I'm criticizing the US government policy itself, Bobert, not engaging in a partisan dogfight between your two political parties. I think that's why we're having trouble understanding each other's point of view. You're fighting (for one side in) an election campaign. I'm not. I'm criticizing a national policy.

Subject: RE: BS: 58% Say The Rich Deserve Their Wealth
From: Bobert
Date: 01 Sep 12 - 09:07 PM

BTW, LH.... I don't know if you are familiar with the American Enterprise Institute but it is a Republican think tank... One of its members, Thomas E. Mann joined up with a meber from the Brookings Institute, a Dem leaning think tank, Norman Ornstein and together thay examined the things I have just posted and wrote a book entitled, "It's Even Worse than it Looks: How the American Constitutional System Collided with the New Politics of Extremism"...

Together theywrote an op-ed that appeared in the April 27th edition of the 'Washington Post" entitled, "Lets jst say it: the Republicans are the problem"...

Everything I have pointed out, including your parroting of Republican talking points is not out of my imagination... It is founded in truth... No not the truths of 1996 or 2000 but today's truthts... Maybe you need to read more and type less... No offense but it seems that you are not up to speed or paying attention...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: 58% Say The Rich Deserve Their Wealth
From: Bobert
Date: 01 Sep 12 - 08:51 PM

For the 10th time... It gives them cover for very bad behavior:

1. Sending thugs to disrupt the recount in Florida in 2000...

2. Sending thugs to harass people trying to participate in town hall meetings...

3. Allowing people to yell "Hang him" in relationship to Obama at Sarah Palin rallies... Never spoke up...

4. Representative Wilson yelling "You lie" at Obama during the State of the Union Adress and being rewarded with million$$$ in re-election money...

5. "Hell no, we won't"...

6. "Our only goal is to make Obama a one term president"....

7. etc.

8. etc...

9. etc...

10 thru 1000. etc, etc. etc...

Come on, LH... You ain't that dense... The Repubs ahve behaved very badly and they need as many folks, like you, as they can to parrot their PR bullshit that both parties are this or that... No they aren't... One party is very ill-behaved...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: 58% Say The Rich Deserve Their Wealth
From: Little Hawk
Date: 01 Sep 12 - 08:21 PM

Well, good for you, Bobert. I'm glad you're helping the Occupy movement keep the pressure up on the people in high places.

I am a bit puzzled at your reiteration that the Republicans want people to think both parties are the same...cos they sure don't think that way themselves! They think the Democrats are radically different from the Republicans, and they never stop saying so. Seems to me that both parties would feel quite threatened by anyone who said they are essentially the same. It strikes at the heart of the game they are playing, which is to polarize people as much as they possibly can.

Subject: RE: BS: 58% Say The Rich Deserve Their Wealth
From: Bobert
Date: 01 Sep 12 - 07:54 PM

No, LH, it isn't because you disagree with the Dems... I do, too... I will be marching tomorrow with the Occupy movement here in Charlotte to tell the Dems that we expect more... The reason why I disagree with you is because you are to quick to take up the "language" that the Republicans want you to use in saying that both parties are the same... I also disagree with you that the Dems are out to stelthly destroy the New Deal... It and civil rights represent their entire success story over the last 100 years... You destroy either and you lose your support, your donors, your future...

Please keep your posts more like your last one and less like GfinS, Sawz and the other Obama haters here... Ihey are all singing way off key and promoting Republican PR BS...

Yo, nobody,

Please furnish us a complete text of Gates speech... Something is real fishy with the video...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: 58% Say The Rich Deserve Their Wealth
From: Little Hawk
Date: 01 Sep 12 - 07:31 PM

My mind is open, Bobert. See...I do dread the thought of the Republicans getting elected, because they aren't even ashamed of destroying the remnants of the New Deal that you have left. They'd do it with delight. The Democrats, on the other hand, would do it more stealthily...by degrees...because their voting base expects them to preserve it. They'd pretend not to be doing...but still do it anyway, mainly for financial reasons that are overwhelming the system, and that's because of levels of debt that simply cannot be maintained.

The only reason you think I'm parroting Republican Party line is because I do criticize the Democratic Party for its various failings as well as criticizing the Republicans for theirs. I don't let the Democrats off the hook just because they happen NOT to be Republicans, and that's what you do, as far as I can see.

But I can understand why! You're living down there. You fear what the Republicans would do once in office. Well, so do I! So does most of the world (except Israel).

I'd rather see the Democrats in office. How many times have I said that? Many. But that will not stop me from criticizing a Democratic administration when it does things in both domestic and foreign policy that I deeply disagree with. I'm not for one moment agreeing with the Republicans or their propaganda, which is simply opportunistic hyperbold in most cases. I'm just disagreeing with some specific things Obama has done, regardless of the Republicans. If in office, they'd have done the same in some cases...and probably even worse in others.

I expect BOTH of them to trash the New Deal, the Republicans with gusto and pride, the Democrats very quietly, like thieves in the night.

I could hardly be parroting Republican line, Bobert, because I disagree with almost everything they stand for in terms of their social philosophy. I do agree with Ron Paul on USA foreign policy and on the Fed...I think he's almost the only American politician who has taken an honest and meaningful stand on those (though Kucinich has too)...but the mainstream Republican Party hates Ron Paul, is embarrassed by what he says, treats him like the "crazy uncle" in the family, and wishes he would go away....and the corporate mass media talk about him as little as they possibly can so his message will not get much public exposure. That shows me how scared they are of what he's saying.

There are a lot of Republicans who agree with Ron Paul, Bobert, but they're only a minority within their party. Many of them will NOT vote at all in the coming election because of how badly the party has shut out Ron Paul, and some of them may even vote for Obama. Pin your hopes on that. It's a big help to Obama. There are a significant number of Republicans who completely disagree with the direction their party has gone in.

Subject: RE: BS: 58% Say The Rich Deserve Their Wealth
From: GUEST,nobody in particular
Date: 01 Sep 12 - 06:22 PM

So what you are trying to say, (but might not recognise it) is, and this is from your lists, that the billionaire business moguls, and the millionaire Senators and Congressmen from either or both parties, have you convinced that they are representing you?

AS P.T. Barnum precisely said it, "There's a sucker born every minute"!

And Mr.Bobert, my sentence structure is quite fine. I suggest you not use that as subterfuge to avoid factual dialogue.

It speaks ill of your position, and gives the impression that your intellectual processes are impotent!

(Let the mind lead, and the body will follow!!)

Subject: RE: BS: 58% Say The Rich Deserve Their Wealth
From: Bobert
Date: 01 Sep 12 - 05:21 PM

Here's what I want from you, LYH... I want you to recognize yourself in the following saying; "The mind is like a parachute... Works best when it is open"... You refuse to accept the fact that you are propagating Republican PR propaganda... You refuse to see that, unlike most other years, that the radical right is exerting itself on the population... They are more than just talk... They have corralled enough power so that they are close to being able to achieve the 70 year old Republican goal of putting a stake thru the heart of the New Deal... With the government teaming up with Boss Hog in busting unions over the last 30 years the New Deal is about all there is left to keep the bottom half of the population (in terms on income) from being homeless...

So, yeah, quit with the 2000 Nader fight song... It was relevant then but no more... It was a new song yesterday, it's an old song now...

As for you, Sawz... You are grasping at straws and flailing... You are so delusional and downright dishonest in taking things out of context that, geeze, there's really nothing worth responding to... Sorry... Guess again...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: 58% Say The Rich Deserve Their Wealth
From: Ebbie
Date: 01 Sep 12 - 05:19 PM

Guest at 12:56 was me.

Subject: RE: BS: 58% Say The Rich Deserve Their Wealth
From: Little Hawk
Date: 01 Sep 12 - 04:33 PM

Whaddya mean..."apathy", Bobertz???? I filled the bird feeders yesterday, I washed the dishes this morning, and I can't vote in your damned USA election anyway! ;-) So whaddya want from me?

Just admit that Big Corporate Money runs both those parties, Bobertz. That doesn't mean I'm tellin' you not to vote for the bought candidate and the bought party that you like the best. After all, what other choice have you really got? I don't see any procedural alternative available right now other than moving to another country or launching a one-man revolution, in which case you would surely fail...and they'd take away yer Wes Ginny slide rule and probably waterboard you.

If yer nice enuff to Chongo, though, he might give you a presidential pardon...after he gets elected, I mean.

Subject: RE: BS: 58% Say The Rich Deserve Their Wealth
From: Sawzaw
Date: 01 Sep 12 - 01:07 PM

Did the New Deal come before or after the internment [concentration] camps, a Bushesque violation of the writ of Habeas Corpus like Gitmo?

In 1988, Congress passed and President Ronald Reagan signed legislation which apologized for the internment on behalf of the U.S. government. The legislation said that government actions were based on "race prejudice, war hysteria, and a failure of political leadership". The U.S. government eventually disbursed more than $1.6 billion in reparations to Japanese Americans who had been interned and their heirs.

Subject: RE: BS: 58% Say The Rich Deserve Their Wealth
From: GUEST
Date: 01 Sep 12 - 12:56 PM

SZ:
31 Aug 12 - 06:24 PM

Why you did stop at the first 10? Was that what it took to prove your point?

I took the 10 from a list of 400 people. It seemed a logical stopping point. Did you want me to list 400 people? More to the point, why did you stop with four?

SZ: The combined wealth of the Democrats is 152.2 billion.
The combined wealth of the Republicans is 138.8 billion.
The obvious point is that more of the wealth held by the top 10 richest people is held by Democrats.

We were not speaking of the total wealth in numbers, but of the numbers of people.

SZ: You still don't have the guts to answer the question because it would violate tribal politics.

I don't try to answer your question (Do the rich deserve their wealth?) because I have no idea how to answer such a blanket construct. Some inherited their wealth,i.e. they did not earn it and therefore do not deserve it. Some inherited their wealth, added to it and used it in humanitarian efforts. OK, perhaps they deserve it. Some married into it - do they deserve it? I don't know. Frankly, I think it is a stupid question. (I fail to see in what *guts* are involved.)

As for Bill Gates' statement, I think it is unfortunate that he didn't develop the thought further, because every right wing out there is flapping. It is apparent what he was actually saying.

"In terms of giving, Gates did a 180-degree turn. Rather than prevent births, he would aim his billions at saving the kids already born. "We moved pretty heavily into vaccines once we understood that," says Gates.
"He could have focused on clinics and doctors, but that doesn't scale. "The magic tool of health intervention is the vaccine, because they can be made very inexpensively," he says. "We had to choose what the most impactful thing to give would be—not just money, but our time, energy, voice." Melinda, his partner in all things philanthropic, echoes that thought: "Where's the place you can have the biggest impact with the money? Where can you save the very most lives with those resources?"

What Gates Clearly Meant

Subject: RE: BS: 58% Say The Rich Deserve Their Wealth
From: Bobert
Date: 01 Sep 12 - 11:55 AM

I don't give a rat's ass about that, LH... What I care about right now - as in today - stopping the radical right from trashing the New deal... Once that is done then I will go back to singing your worn out song... You apathy is absolutely amazing...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: 58% Say The Rich Deserve Their Wealth
From: Little Hawk
Date: 01 Sep 12 - 11:28 AM

Anyone who can't see that BOTH the Democratic and Republican parties are owned, lock stock and barrel, by the rich in the USA has been blinded by partisan fervor...or as Sawzaw puts it: Tribal Politics.

Subject: RE: BS: 58% Say The Rich Deserve Their Wealth
From: Sawzaw
Date: 31 Aug 12 - 08:23 PM

Seiu's Acorn works cheap. They don't even pay minimum wages much less union scale. They bust heads for free.

Subject: RE: BS: 58% Say The Rich Deserve Their Wealth
From: pdq
Date: 31 Aug 12 - 07:13 PM

In 2004, George W. Bush and his backers spent $300 million and were successful.

In 2008, just four short years later, Obama & Co. spent over $800 million. That does not include free "volunteer" time "donated" by the union boys. That type of help the Republicans have to pay for.

So, which candidate "bought" the election?

Subject: RE: BS: 58% Say The Rich Deserve Their Wealth
From: Bobert
Date: 31 Aug 12 - 07:00 PM

Problem is that, as we are seeing, the Repubs are more intent on buying the election as their Super PACS make Obama's look like chump change...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: 58% Say The Rich Deserve Their Wealth
From: pdq
Date: 31 Aug 12 - 06:26 PM

OK, Sheldon Adelson is a Republican donor.

That make$ the count 13 Dems and 7 Republicans in the TOP 20 Richest Americans.

Subject: RE: BS: 58% Say The Rich Deserve Their Wealth
From: Sawzaw
Date: 31 Aug 12 - 06:24 PM

Ebbie:

Why you did stop at the first 10? Was that what it took to prove your point?

The combined wealth of the Democrats is 152.2 billion.

The combined wealth of the Republicans is 138.8 billion.

The obvious point is that more of the wealth held by the top 10 richest people is held by Democrats.

You still don't have the guts to answer the question because it would violate tribal politics.

Other than that, you are a breath of fresh air.

For another inkling about evil rich people, who is worth what in congress.

1. $290.5 million: Rep. Michael McCall (R-TX)
2. $198.8 million: Sen. John Kerry (D-MA)
3. $140.6 million: Rep. Darrell Issa (R-CA)
4. $91.1 million: Rep. Jared Polis (D-CO)
5. $85.9 million: Sen. Mark Warner (D-VA)
6. $83.1 million: Sen. Jay Rockefeller (D-WV)
7. $80.1 million: Sen. Richard Blumenthal (D-CT)
8. $56.9 million: Sen. Frank Lautenberg (D-NJ)
9. $47.2 million: Sen. Diane Feinstein (D-CA)
10. $36.7 million: Rep. Jim Renacci (R-OH)

Democrats 643.1 million
Republicans 467.7 million

Do the ten richest members of congress deserve their wealth?

___strongly agree

___somewhat agree

___somewhat disagree

___strongly disagree

Subject: RE: BS: 58% Say The Rich Deserve Their Wealth
From: pdq
Date: 31 Aug 12 - 06:06 PM

You get a better idea if you make that the TOP 20 Richest Americans.

As far as I can see, there are 4 Waltons (WalMart, inherited) and 2 Kochs (Combination, both work very hard).

After that, the remaining 14 seem to all be Democrats, including extremist George Soros and nutcase Michael Bluumberg.

If your eyeballs don't glaze over, here they are:


      No. 1 Bill Gates

Net Worth:$61 billion – As of March 2012
Source of Wealth: Microsoft, self-made , Age: 56 , Citizenship: U.S.

      No. 2 Warren Buffett

Net Worth:$44 billion – As of March 2012
Source of Wealth: Berkshire Hathaway, self-made , Age: 81 , Citizenship: U.S.

      No. 3 Larry Ellison

Net Worth:$36 billion – As of March 2012
Source of Wealth: Oracle, self-made , Age: 67 , Citizenship: U.S.

    No. 4 Christy Walton & family

Net Worth:$25.3 billion – As of March 2012
Source of Wealth: Walmart, inherited , Age: 57 , Citizenship: U.S.

      No. 5 Charles Koch (tie)

Net Worth:$25 billion – As of March 2012
Source of Wealth: Diversified, inherited and growing , Age: 76, Citizenship: United States

      No. 5 David Koch (tie)

Net Worth:$25 billion – As of March 2012
Source of Wealth: Diversified, inherited and growing , Age: 71 , Citizenship: United States

      No. 7 Sheldon Adelson

Net Worth:$24.9 billion – As of March 2012
Source of Wealth: Casinos, self-made , Age: 78 , Citizenship: United States

    No. 8 Jim Walton

Net Worth:$23.7 billion – As of March 2012
Source of Wealth: Walmart, inherited , Age: 64 , Citizenship: United States

      No. 9 Alice Walton

Net Worth:$23.3 billion – As of March 2012
Source of Wealth: Walmart, inherited , Age: 62 , Citizenship: United States

      No. 10 R. Robson Walton

Net Worth:$23.1 billion – As of March 2012
Source of Wealth: Walmart, inherited , Age: 68 , Citizenship: United States

      No. 11 Michael Bloomberg

Net Worth:$22 billion – As of March 2012
Source of Wealth: Bloomberg LP, self-made , Age: 70 , Citizenship: U.S.

      No. 12 George Soros

Net Worth:$20 billion – As of March 2012
Source of Wealth: Hedge Funds, self-made , Age: 81 , Citizenship: U.S.

      No. 13 Sergey Brin

Net Worth:$18.7 billion – As of March 2012
Source of Wealth: Google, self-made , Age: 38 , Citizenship: U.S.

    No. 14 Larry Page

Net Worth:$18.7 billion – As of March 2012
Source of Wealth: Google, self-made , Age: 39 , Citizenship: U.S.

    No. 15 Jeff Bezos

Net Worth:$18.4 billion – As of March 2012
Source of Wealth: Amazon.com, self-made , Age: 48, Citizenship: United States

    No. 16 Mark Zuckerberg

Net Worth:$17.5 billion – As of March 2012
Source of Wealth: Facebook, self-made , Age: 28, Citizenship: United States

    No. 17 Michael Dell

Net Worth:$15.9 billion – As of March 2012
Source of Wealth: Dell, self-made , Age: 47, Citizenship: United States

      No. 18 Steve Ballmer

Net Worth:$15.7 billion – As of March 2012
Source of Wealth: Microsoft, self-made, Age: 56 , Citizenship: United States

      No. 19 Phil Knight

Net Worth:$14.4 billion – As of March 2012
Source of Wealth: Nike, self-made , Age: 74 , Citizenship: United States

      No. 20 Paul Allen

Net Worth:$14.2 billion – As of March 2012
Source of Wealth: Microsoft, investments, self-made, Age: 59 , Citizenship: United States

Subject: RE: BS: 58% Say The Rich Deserve Their Wealth
From: Bobert
Date: 31 Aug 12 - 05:47 PM

Well, if you understand basic sentence structure and logic the sentence doesn't make any sense and if that is truly what Bill Gates thinks then there should be multiple sources...

As for hood winked, pal... Your posts are not only unoriginal but have hoodwinked, i.e. right winged propaganda dripping of them, down the table legs, onto the floor, out the door, down of the driveway and all they way to the storm sewer down the street...

Try thinking before submitting...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: 58% Say The Rich Deserve Their Wealth
From: GUEST,nobody in particular
Date: 31 Aug 12 - 05:15 PM

Maybe there is no disconnect nor doctored piece. Maybe you are just one of those die-hard, 'obstinate and stubborn' people, spoken of before!
Maybe you can't see the forest for the trees! Maybe you've been hoodwinked, and are too filled with false pride to admit it. Maybe people like you are the reason your phoney, crooked politicians keep getting away with destroying your country!

Maybe being 'obstinate and stubborn' is just a way of rationalising not caring at all! Maybe your whole political system has counted on people like you, to accomplish the deceptive practises that will take away your freedoms and way of life, for their own purposes! Maybe you could be spending your time getting active in taking down the real enemies of your country, and the free world's! Maybe you are just too lazy to care.

I know, it takes too much effort!

Subject: RE: BS: 58% Say The Rich Deserve Their Wealth
From: Bobert
Date: 31 Aug 12 - 04:52 PM

Seemed to be a disconnect in logic there... I mean, either that or Gates had a major senior moment... I suspect that the clip is either doctored or taken out of context... In other words, I smell a Koch-rat here... Bill Gates isn't that disconnected... Pehaps you would provide us with the full text of his speech...

As for Democrats not wanting to work for a living... That, my firnd, falls right into the bullseye of the BIG LIE... Every time a major company has a job fair their are people lined up around the block trying to get them... For your BIG LIE to be true then you would have us believe that all those people are Republcians??? Here's what you do... Next time there is one of these job fairs take you ignorant self to it and ask people which party they belong to... Then report back...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: 58% Say The Rich Deserve Their Wealth
From: GUEST,nobody in particular
Date: 31 Aug 12 - 04:31 PM

58% Say The Rich Deserve Their Wealth
42% Of Democrats Say they deserve the same wealth
They just don't want to work for it,
They just FEEL That they deserve it!!