BS: Home Education UK

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 03 Oct 09 - 05:42 PM

'I have answered your question; may I in return ask if you believe children should be allowed to bring anything they want into their school?'


I answered yours....if school was 'theirs' they would have a whole different attitude to it. The fear would disappear, along with the knives..and a feeling of relaxation would eventually replace the terrible tension and stress our children are constantly under in this institution.

They'd bring many things into 'their' school....phones, music, laptops, roller blades, ipods, cameras, books......

....most of all Emma, they'd bring Laughter..because they would finally be free of the Tyranny of Education that now rules so many schools within the Western World..

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: SINSULL
Date: 03 Oct 09 - 05:35 PM

Tug,
Were you aware of the rule about cell phones? I take it your daughter does not take one to school. She knew she was breaking a ruls and she knew the consequences.
Have you discussed her part in this debacle? It could have easily been avoided. Was the phone call critical? Calling her Mom to say she was ill?

How do you think the school should have handled this?
Schools have rules. Some are ridiculous, I agree. Who decides what rules to break and who gets punished? If the school makes an exception for your daughter, what about he next child who uses a cell phone in school?

Just trying to look at the whole picture.
Mary

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: Smokey.
Date: 03 Oct 09 - 05:31 PM

And is it true to say that this opinion is based on detailed scientific research or just a guess?

If it is more than a guess, can you point at the evidence?

I'm afraid I can't be arsed, FolkieDave. It was just an observation, not a judgement, and I certainly didn't say it to start an argument.

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: Emma B
Date: 03 Oct 09 - 05:29 PM

"Emma, if the 'penalty' for having a mobile phone had been death, would you still agree to the 'sentence' being carried out, purely because 'we have to be seen to be obeying the rules'??????"

Another question Lizzie when you didn't have the courtesy to answer mine? -

'I have answered your question; may I in return ask if you believe children should be allowed to bring anything they want into their school?'

- actually I have always opposed capital punishment - recent experience on the jury of a murder trial has convinced me I was justified in this view

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: CarolC
Date: 03 Oct 09 - 05:29 PM

Nothing happened 30 years ago. 30 years ago, I was out of school and working in a veterniarian's office.

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: CarolC
Date: 03 Oct 09 - 05:27 PM

Einstein fits the classic description of Gifted/Learning Disabled. This quote from his sister helps explain it...

"(Albert) never was much good at the 'easy' part of mathematics. To shine, he had to move on to the 'hard' part.' In adult life his mathematical intuition was recognised as extraordinary and he could handle deftly the most difficult of tensor calculus, but it appears that arithmetic calculation continued to be an area of comparative weakness." ~ Maja Einstein"

As an adult he had difficulty keeping track of everyday kinds of information and his wife had to do most of that for him.

Gifted LD people often don't do well with the stuff that most people find the easiest to do, while excelling at things that most other people would find quite difficult, if not impossible.

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: SINSULL
Date: 03 Oct 09 - 05:13 PM

30 years ago...

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 03 Oct 09 - 05:10 PM

Emma, if the 'penalty' for having a mobile phone had been death, would you still agree to the 'sentence' being carried out, purely because 'we have to be seen to be obeying the rules'??????

Yeesh!

We are in Orwell's 1984 here, as can be demonstrated by all of those who demand the home educators must not be free to do as THEY want, but tied in to the rules of the very place that has almost destroyed their children...

"But it has to be education, it has to be structured (in whatever you way the home educator thinks might be best or appropriate) and it most certainly has to be measureable in some way or other.

Really? WHY?

Actually, it is measurable. It is measurable in my daughter's Myspace page, Dave, if you'd care to take a look way back in this thread....It's there in the photos, not of stupid face slugging back beer on drunken nights, but of children being free to be who they are, doing what they want, not through peer pressure...free to walk the fields, visit ancient buildings, play, laugh, have fun.

You have all become so up your own arses with rules and regulations, charts, tick boxes, measuring sticks, examinations...that you have all forgotten your basic product.

School SHOULD be turning out the next generation, a generation of happy, kind, compassionate young people, who know how to laugh, how to heal, how to take care of their planet and each other. They should be filled with an absolute LOVE of learning, for the rest of their lives through.

Instead, so many of them are filled with alcohol, drugs, depression and debts.

I'll take my tutoring, thanks Dave, over yours...because my kids have had a special time in their young lives, freed of factory farm pressures poured down upon them by Slave Drivers, who would rather stop a child from going to their school than dare to see common sense.

After all, school's about making a statement, innit..and that statement is 'WE are in charge!"

'their' school? If children thought school was theirs, they'd have a whole different outlook. School isn't. It belongs to the teachers and the politicians.

"If you don't think education should be structured or measureable, and it is clear that some people don't, then why call it "education"? Home or otherwise?"

Education as it has now become, Sucks.

Learning is there for life...and we learn every single day of our lives.

This week school started injecting it's 14 year old girls with the Cervical Cancer jab...en masse...and my heart died a little bit more, not only because they have no real idea what this jab will do, its side-effects on children so young, but because cervial cancer is so on the increase in youngsters, because they are having sex when their bodies aren't ready for it, let alone their minds...

But hey, do NOT get me started on the paedeophilic sex education that so many youngsters are receiving these days, with their parents knowing nothing about it....Even teachers feel uneasy...and if I told children what teachers are telling them, I'd probably be arrested, but...no matter, line the little girls up and stick a needle in them, give them the cervical cancer jab and we'll worry about the side-effects later....

'We know it works, and it's safe, 'cos the medical companies have assured us it is!'

Yeah, right...............

And another Corporate company smacks it's lips in glee from the profit they've made out of our children...just like the Corporate Examination System is doing....

Chilling, huh?


(Then Lizzie sat back and watched them all cry out in unison that none of this was true, that school was the best thing on the planet for all children...and that home educators should be trussed up with rules, same as the rest of 'em!.

...and she wept....for the children.

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: CarolC
Date: 03 Oct 09 - 05:05 PM

The article says "schools in North America" and not just specifically Canadian schools. If they had meant just Canadian Schools, they would have said Canadian schools. My focus is on schools in the US (which are included in the category of North America) because that is what I am most familiar with.

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: Folkiedave
Date: 03 Oct 09 - 04:28 PM

and it's true to say that the education system effectively discriminates against that more than it does against the genuinely disabled nowadays.

And is it true to say that this opinion is based on detailed scientific research or just a guess?

If it is more than a guess, can you point at the evidence?

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: Smokey.
Date: 03 Oct 09 - 04:11 PM

So Einstein had learning disabilities, did he?

That's one of the daftest statements I've ever heard.. He had a very high IQ though, and it's true to say that the education system effectively discriminates against that more than it does against the genuinely disabled nowadays.

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: Folkiedave
Date: 03 Oct 09 - 03:46 PM

If, as has been suggested above, inertia prevents the schools from improving their methods of teaching students with learning disabilities, home schooling must remain an option. The home schooling environment is not subject to such limitations.

I have never suggested inertia is a reason, mostly we don't put enough money into it. In addition there is a lot of parental opposition to change in schools as I have pointed out.

That is why (time after time on this thread) I have agreed with home education as an option. I have even suggested a good case can be made for subsidising it. But it has to be education, it has to be structured (in whatever you way the home educator thinks might be best or appropriate) and it most certainly has to be measureable in some way or other.

If you don't think education should be structured or measureable, and it is clear that some people don't, then why call it "education"? Home or otherwise?

"But why is it taking so long for the "powers that be" to implement the necessary changes, why aren't teachers in North America being taught about Dyslexia? I know that the ignorance that has surrounded Dyslexia 25 years ago is still with us now. We have done seven presentations to Federal and Provincial "Service Providers" and Pro-D Days for teachers in the last three months and at every single one of them we get the same comments. The Teachers and Service Providers all need more information about Dyslexia because they haven't gotten the training they need to understand or accommodate it."

I did put an answer to this earlier. My answer was related to the UK, though I suspect it applies to most countries.

Try here:

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: Folkiedave - PM
Date: 03 Oct 09 - 07:34 AM

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: Jack Campin
Date: 03 Oct 09 - 03:06 PM

Whether or not he was dyslexic, Einstein was a classic case of someone with learning disabilities.

Like what? Started learning violin at 6, calculus at 12, graduated from high school at 17 and got a teaching diploma at 21. Seems to have failed exactly one formal examination in his entire life, at 16. Didn't make much impression on anybody until his 20s, but that's hardly grounds for diagnosing a brain syndrome.

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: artbrooks
Date: 03 Oct 09 - 01:36 PM

Carol, while your comment about "the situation in the US schools (being) far from sufficiently improved" may be entirely true, I', not sure if a citation from a Canadian website about the situation in Canada validates it.

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: CarolC
Date: 03 Oct 09 - 01:31 PM

Whether or not he was dyslexic, Einstein was a classic case of someone with learning disabilities.

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: CarolC
Date: 03 Oct 09 - 01:21 PM

And this, from the Dyslexia Victoria Online page, proves that the situation in the US schools is far from being sufficiently improved...

"But why is it taking so long for the "powers that be" to implement the necessary changes, why aren't teachers in North America being taught about Dyslexia? I know that the ignorance that has surrounded Dyslexia 25 years ago is still with us now. We have done seven presentations to Federal and Provincial "Service Providers" and Pro-D Days for teachers in the last three months and at every single one of them we get the same comments. The Teachers and Service Providers all need more information about Dyslexia because they haven't gotten the training they need to understand or accommodate it."

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: CarolC
Date: 03 Oct 09 - 01:11 PM

If, as has been suggested above, inertia prevents the schools from improving their methods of teaching students with learning disabilities, home schooling must remain an option. The home schooling environment is not subject to such limitations.

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 03 Oct 09 - 01:03 PM

How in the name of God did we manage to exist before the invention of the mobile phone? I'm astonished that I ever managed to struggle through my schooling without mobile phones. How could we possibly conduct our lives without being able to contact our friends and family - sometimes for as much as two or three WHOLE HOURS??!!

It beggars belief - but we did it!

The world's going (gone?) absolutely f***ing mad.

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: Tug the Cox
Date: 03 Oct 09 - 12:27 PM

The everyday morality is that as it wasn't her phone, she would not surrender it. She expected and would accept a sanction against herself, but considered the confiscation of an innocent party's phone to be unreasonable. She showed considerable courage in standing up for her beliefs, and as i have said elsewhere, is usually a highly regarded model pupil. I am confident that had she been one of Milgram's subjects she would have refused to obey him as well.

"if there is to be any discipline"

    Of course there must be discipine, but let it vcentre on responsibility, not obedience. Has your reading extended to Alfie Kohn? If not give him a try.


Beyond Discipline
From Compliance to Community

(Alexandria, VA: Association for Supervision and Curriculum Development, 1996/2006)

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: Emma B
Date: 03 Oct 09 - 11:31 AM

As I studied social psychology at univerity I am obviously aware of Stanley Milgram's work which demonstrated, as he said

"Ordinary people, simply doing their jobs, and without any particular hostility on their part, can become agents in a terrible destructive process.
Moreover, even when the destructive effects of their work become patently clear, and they are asked to carry out actions incompatible with fundamental standards of morality"

Not sure a rule about confiscating a banned mobile phone and that failure to honour the rule was met by a request to surrender it quite comes under something that is "incompatible with fundamental standards of morality"

What is sad is that the apparent escalation of something as simple as an understood rule for all pupils should result in a conflict between home and school that could result in the pupils exclusion.

As one head teacher has commented conflict with parents happens

'Schools have to manage thousands of cases ..., of bullying, allegations against teachers, refusals to attend detentions, claims of injustice and grievances, sometimes tactical, felt by children whose parents feel the best way to support their child is to attack their school.'

I'm sure the school would prefer to resolve this kind of situation without draconian measures but also cannot afford, if there is to be any discipline, to have a pupil deliberately flout a rule either.

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: Tug the Cox
Date: 03 Oct 09 - 10:52 AM

in the above, for status read 'sanction'. God knows what happened.

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: Tug the Cox
Date: 03 Oct 09 - 10:50 AM

The question here is the severity of the status. At first there was an attempt to ban phones all together. being a rural area, where kids attending post school activities etc need to be able to contact their parents, phones were allowed to be carried, but not to be used in school time.
    Part of the reason for this was not the bullying issue. bad as this was, it can be done at any time. More it was an attempt to stop the kids communicating en masse. The school walkout which marked the invasion of Iraq, for instance, was organised spontaneously with the aid of texting.
   I fully agree with not using phones in lessons, perhaps even in the playground if the reasons are sound. Should a child's education be put at risk if they use one, however. Surely its a matter of scale, and how easily unthinking authoritarianism topples into bizarre and ludicrous situations.Compliance to rules should not be about blind obedience ( are you aware of thhe Milgram experiments on obedience?) but coming to accept the validity of just rules, that the young person should gradually become more involved in framing. Top down blind obedience is simply uneducational as it prevents the growth of responsibility.

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: Emma B
Date: 03 Oct 09 - 10:18 AM

My own belief Lizzie (avoiding judgementally loaded words like 'correct') is based on the considerable evidence that mobile phones, particularly those with cameras, have been used extensively in bullying and that the head teacher - presumably in consultation with the school governors - should have the authority to ban mobile phones during school time if he/she believes it could also prevent or diminish other specific problems such as theft etc

Furthermore my personal view is that is also incumbent upon parents to familiarize themselves with the rules of their child's school as parents and teachers need to work together to promote the safety of the pupils.

As you have pointed out, if you believe schools should have no rules and exist in some state of happy anarchy then the option of home teaching is available to you.
Again, entirely personally, I also believe that the absence or non-recognition of order is not a good foundation for working life

I have answered your question; may I in return ask if you believe children should be allowed to bring anything they want into their school?

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 03 Oct 09 - 09:35 AM

So, do you believe that the school was correct then, Emma?

I sure as hell don't.

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: Emma B
Date: 03 Oct 09 - 09:09 AM

off subject but, as it was brought up in a post ....

a news article from 2002 Schools ban mobile phones
looks at the strict policy on mobile phones at Great Barr School in Birmingham where pupils and parents know that any child found with a mobile phone on their person will have it confiscated.


For different reasons to those expressed by the headmaster above the Tories have said in an education policy document that they wanted to see authority returned to teachers.
They reckoned an important part of that proposal would include a crackdown on the use of mobile phones.

David Cameron et al want to see more power handed to teachers because of concerns over disruptive behaviour and bullying in the classroom and school playground, including the increase in "happy slapping" incidents among teenagers using camera phones.

A web site aimed at assisting parents to communicate effectively with their childrens school strongly advocates that
'If you are considering buying your child a mobile, it is important to know whether they are allowed in schools so it's a good idea to look into this
Most schools will clearly outline their policy on mobile usage'

Some Times readers make their personal views known -
Should mobile phones be banned from schools?

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 03 Oct 09 - 08:53 AM

I am all for freedom of speech until people start to yell 'fire' in a crowded theatre. A simile sadly close to the truth.

DeG

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: Folkiedave
Date: 03 Oct 09 - 08:45 AM

And I notice that not once have you taken issue with Dave's continuous 'harrassment' of me (and no-one else)

Probably because it isn't true, would be my guess.

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 03 Oct 09 - 08:45 AM

That's madness, Jeff. Complete madness.   I am so sorry to read of your troubles. I really hope you are able to work something out with the school, because they are totally wrong, in every single way.

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: Tug the Cox
Date: 03 Oct 09 - 07:42 AM

Home schooling may be something forced upon me!. my daughter Peggy, nearly 16 and in her exam year, is a good, commited student, is well liked by all her teachers, and is in many ways a model pupil. On Tuesday, during lunch break she was using another girl's mobile phone. In lunch break, not in class. Only school knows when it is OK to communicate with others, apparently, and the punishment is confiscation ( theft)of the phone. As the phone was not hers, Peg refused to give it up and was sent home. Apparently she must attend on Monday, surrender the phone and eat humble pie, or she will be permanently excluded.....in her exam year.
   Her mum, in a controlled rage, rang the head of year, who was sorryb that it was Peg who was involved, but reitersted that rules were rules. he was told that we had an old broken mobile that she could bring in...this seemed to be acceptable!!. Peg's mum then pointed out that the school saw fit to swap a broken mobile foe a child's education, abd asked the teacher whether he was proud of the system over which he presided.
   I wish that this was an isolated incident, sadly it isn't. Every week the pape4rs carry stories of children excluded for their hair style, theuir jewellry, their piercings, the colour of their socks etc. Teachers sadly come to accept this state of affairs as normal, or even preferable. I spent many years interviewing young people for posts in teacher training, and was heartened by their sense of vocation, justice and the needs of the individual. A few years in the system and these convictions are driven underground, if not expunged totally.
This is the great fault of compulsory schooling. The perceived needs of the institution are put before those of the child, an inversion of the natural order. Chris Shute sees this dynamic as 'Micro-Fascism ( and before anyone shouts 'hyperbole' read his reasoned arguments). In short schooling is put before education, with tragic results. This is one of the reasons why so many opt for home schooling, and many more are forced into it by the escalating use of p[ermanent exclusion, currently over 10,000 every year in England and Wales.

Compulsory Schooling Disease: How Children Absorb Fascist Values by Chris Shute (Paperback - 10 Mar 1993)

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: Folkiedave
Date: 03 Oct 09 - 07:34 AM

Excellent link Villan.

Not a word on there I could disagree with.

As far as I can see it is Canadian and they may be in front of what we do here. At the University in Quebec where we stayed last year, there was a notice for students about dyslexia for French speakers and they seemed very aware of different learning styles. Certainly this bi-lingualism may be a factor. Our friends in Ottawa brought up their children bi-lingually and one of them struggled because it was thought she might be dyslexic. She was tested at a very young age (and as it happens found not to be).

And I agree whole-heartedly about the whole class improving. I know when I had the quadriplegic student I referred to earlier in my class, I had to change things in the class and for the better.

When my wife was studying for her dyslexia assessment qualification she had to do some practical teaching experience and chose to work in the local primary school with a particular child. It worked really well and the headteacher and class teacher were well pleased with the progress made, not just with the particular child (who measuringly improved) but with the rest of the class.

So why does it take so long to change things when the answers are so blindingly obvious?

Well I can make some suggestions.

Some of the methods are anathema to parents who can easily revolt. When a secondary school in Sheffield tried to alter the way children were taught the parents went barmy because the children were not being taught by "traditional" methods - next to no time the press were down and around their ears. Try as he might the headteacher could not convince anyone and it went out of the window. And there is much less freedom to experiment nowadays.

We know how much difference a decent meal makes at lunchtime for many young pupils and students - remember the revolts over that? Parents feeding chips to their children through the school railings?

All people "know" about education because virtually everyone goes through some sort of education system amd "it worked for them". Look how difficult it was to stop corporal punishment in schools, and there are those who will still justify it on the grounds "I was thrashed within an inch of my life and it never did me any harm guv". See here. You might care to note that the school is Independent and Christian. Current charge is £3.600 + per year. And it goes up on joint incomes over £40,000.

In addition of course - to change things like that can be very expensive. It would take a long time to permeate the techniques through the system. Undoubtedly smaller classes help but that costs money. More computers would help and that costs money. Specialist dyslexic assessors and teachers cost money to train and the training is not easy as I explained in an earlier post. So that costs money.

All those in favour of much higher taxes to ensure better education, the benefit of which may not be fully felt for twenty years - raise your hand.

So it is possible that far from it being teachers fault that things don't change, it can be parents who "know" about education who can be just as much at fault.

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 03 Oct 09 - 07:23 AM

Why would you want to silence me, when I have no desire to silence you, David?

You are free to express yourself as you so wish, in my book.
Sadly, it seems that in yours, I am not.

Hmmmmmm.....

And I notice that not once have you taken issue with Dave's continuous 'harrassment' of me (and no-one else)

Double Hmmmmmmm........

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 03 Oct 09 - 07:12 AM

Well, that's another reasonable thread well and truly Lizzied...

Can I make a request for Joe or a clone to put an end to this tirade of personal abuse and complete twaddle please?

DeG

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 03 Oct 09 - 05:36 AM

Brilliant link, Villan!

Taken from it...

"...I know that the ignorance that has surrounded Dyslexia 25 years ago is still with us now..."

YAY!

And sadly, much evidence of that is to be seen on this thread.

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 03 Oct 09 - 05:20 AM

I found this comment from the link posted, rather interesting!

"recent information I found from a major New Zealand Dyslexia Awareness association [..]. They found that schools in the U.K. who used Dyslexia Friendly methods in the classrooms had amazing results. By using teaching methods that work well with Dyslexics, the whole class, including the non-Dyslexics, moved forward more quickly than if the class was taught using traditional teaching methods."

Sounds like all kids could do better with Dyslexic friendly methods?

I wasn't dyslexic, but I had a poor memory for facts (still do) and I found it very hard to concentrate on subjects that were not naturally stimulating or creatively engaging, and thus found early schooling quite challenging. As a consequence, I believed I was not very smart.

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: Rasener
Date: 03 Oct 09 - 05:01 AM

http://dyslexiavictoria.wordpress.com/2009/06/

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: CarolC
Date: 03 Oct 09 - 04:55 AM

I also find it very rich, that when I am recounting an experience I had in which I was finally able to feel emmpowered for the first time in my life in an academic setting, and to have taken control of my environment and created a very good outcome for myself, the resident know-it-all here in the Mudcat is characterizing what I said as ranting on about what happened to me 30 years ago and wearing my disability on my sleeve.

When people advocate for themselves and their kids, and do everything in their power to ensure that their needs are met, and their kids' needs are met, this is not wearing one's disability on their sleeve. This is taking control of and responsibility for one's life and one's kids. Wearing my disability on my sleeve would be me giving up and not ever doing anything to try to correct what is wrong. Well, I'll be fucked if I will ever just sit back and not participate in a discussion about whether or not home schooling is needed for some kids with learning disabilities, and why, just so I can be sure that I won't be accused of wearing my disabilities on my sleeve by an ignorant, overbearing, busybody here in the Mudcat.

Some people really need to get over themselves.

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 03 Oct 09 - 04:30 AM

Yup, some have brains which they get from 'Cadavers R Us'...

Personally, I love the Tigger Brains best, but heck, wadda I no, huh?

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: Folkiedave
Date: 03 Oct 09 - 04:26 AM

Yeah, you're right, Dave....You are SO much better than me. I apologise most humbly and beg forgiveness at your feet for being born so bloody daffy brained that it drives you insane.

I don't think that and I have never said it. Apart from that every word is true.

can't see why I've never seen it before, but then, heck I'm sooo stoooopid, right, so I guess it's hardly surprising...

Well you have said that Lizzie - I certainly haven't.

The difference between you and I, Dave, is that I am happy that I'm me, and you are not.

Lizzie I only ever comment on your posts when you write unsubstantiated rubbish and I comment on the rubbish not on you. And the evidence is there for people to see.

But of course it is much easier to make personal attacks on people, rather than inform people how you can tell a msucician who is dyslexic, autistic purely by watching them.

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: Lizzie Cornish 1 - PM
Date: 02 Oct 09 - 10:49 AM

I can tell a musician who's dyslexic, autistic...purely from watching them...

I do honestly wish I could - but then as you correctly point out I don't have your bouncy brain.

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 03 Oct 09 - 03:49 AM

"To be nobody but yourself in a world which is doing its best, night and day, to make you everybody else means to fight the hardest battle which any human being can fight; and never stop fighting." - e. e. cummings


And until EVERY school in the world has that emblazoned, proudly, above the entrance to its doors and makes it the most important lesson they 'teach', then I will *never* believe in them.

Until they stop seeing children merely as Exam Fodder and League Table Achievers, and start seeing them as Profoundly Precious Human Beings, then we ain't going nowhere.

Until they themselves can learn to let go of testing, of homework, or exams and are then freed to see the uniqueness of every child, together with the skills and creative ability of each child, things will not get better.

The people who most need to learn, in schools, are those who create schools in the first place.

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 03 Oct 09 - 03:10 AM

Yeah, you're right, Dave....You are SO much better than me. I apologise most humbly and beg forgiveness at your feet for being born so bloody daffy brained that it drives you insane. I think it's wonderful that God chose you to educate people like me and my word, we should all be so damned grateful, because how the f*ck would we exist without people like you 'teaching' us how to think, how to write, telling us WHAT to write, picking us up on every single word we say, pointing out our faults all the time without ever believing a single word we say.

How the f*ck would we ever get to LIVE without folks like you around, huh...?

can't see why I've never seen it before, but then, heck I'm sooo stoooopid, right, so I guess it's hardly surprising...



Tell me though....as someone who (apparently) writes nothing but crap, WHY do I manage to make you incensed to the point of obsession?
WHAT is it about me that has enraged (seemingly) an entire section of the English Folk World to the point where they've had a campaign to silence me?


I tell you what, I withdraw my apology. You want to know why? Because I the Right to Write as I so choose, same as you do.   

"To be nobody but yourself in a world which is doing its best, night and day, to make you everybody else means to fight the hardest battle which any human being can fight; and never stop fighting." - e. e. cummings

I've fought damn bloody hard for that right....and no obsessive prat will ever make me feel inferior, so perhaps they should stop trying to do it.

The difference between you and I, Dave, is that I am happy that I'm me, and you are not.

My brain is bouncy, and I LOVE it!

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: CarolC
Date: 02 Oct 09 - 10:05 PM

Stop patronizing me please, and acting like I couldn't possibly know what I am talking about.

They don't allow calculators in remedial math.

It was not easy for me to get them to let me have a multiplication table. They did not allow me to have a calculator for REMEDIAL MATH

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: Folkiedave
Date: 02 Oct 09 - 09:23 PM

She was chosen for her National Trust job by a manager who thought she was the right person for it. I call that 'headhunting' because she was in another job at the time, and had not put in for a new job back then.

Lizzie you can call it what you like. "Headhunting" has a specific meaning in the context of employment and I have explained - patiently - why it has a specific meaning.

You can take the National Trust to court over it, if you so wish, if that will give you some kind of thrill and make you feel like a big chap.

Lizzie - why on earth would I want to do that? I thought possibly, just possibly, that you were using the term in a wrong way. And that using it like that could possibly have legal repercussions. Had someone done that for me I would have been grateful. Especially when they were right. Let me move on.....


Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: Lizzie Cornish 1 - PM
Date: 02 Oct 09 - 07:01 PM

ADVANTAGES of Dyslexia

When you did that why did you not include this disclaimer?

We try to make our information as accurate and helpful as possible, but give no guarantee that the information available through this website is accurate or up to date and accept no responsibility for errors or omissions.

When your "kids", as you charmingly call, them were teaching themselves the use of computers and the internet, did you mention anything about the dangers of indiscriminate cutting and pasting of material?

If it irks you deeply that I have wonderful kids, who are thought highly of by other people. Tough shite.

Why on earth would that worry me? I am delighted your children are doing so well, and if, as you tell us - this is the result of your insights into dyslexia, great.

I asked you how you brought up these wonderful young people, because you claim perceptions that many of us don't have. Especially teachers.

You claim insight into musicians and dyslexia and all I want you to do is share these wonderful insights you have with the rest of us.

Which - remarkably in my opinion - you refuse to do. And I happen to think that is a shame that we cannot all benefit from your talents.

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: SINSULL
Date: 02 Oct 09 - 09:18 PM

Carol,
By the mid-70s everyone was using a calculator in math and business classes. In the 80s IN PUBLIC SCHOOL my son did not bang his head against his disability. He learned his way - with ADD and dyslexia. Long before he entered Summit, Public School teachers were showing me ways of helping him learn his way. Ranting on and on about your experiences 30 years ago is no more productive than me ranting on and on about physical abuse in Catholic schools. It has been recognized; it has changed. Everyone else has moved on. Why do you need to repeatedly retell the story of your childhood? Move on.

And you do wear your disabilties on your sleeve while everyone else has taken advantage of new attitudes and developments and moved on. I REPEAT: "Is it at all possible that it is your attitude and not your disability causing your perceived difficulties?"


Lizzie,
You have been barred repeatedly from various websites because you make a nuisance of yourself and prevent the websites from functioning. Your special gifts do not entitle you to screw around with the rest of us.

You listed 51 traits of people with dyslexia and ADD. On any given day I exhibit at least 30 of them and when my thyroid goes "off" all of them. So what?

This list supposedly shows how dyslexic people surpass the norm:
Persistence,

Concentration,

Perception,

Vivid imagination,

Creativity,

Drive and ambition,

Curiosity,

Thinking in pictures instead of words,

Superior reasoning,

Capable of seeing things differently from others,

Love of complexity,

Simultaneous multiple thought processing,

Quickly mastering new concepts, and

Not following the Crowd.



A total crock! It is a list of traits attributable to successful people in every walk of life, dyslexic or not.
Just because you find it in print does not make it gospel truth. You claim you are dyslexic. How is it that you are incapable of grasping even the simplest idea put forth by anyone here or anywhere else on the web?

Now back to our regular progamming:
You do not understand because you do not live in my mind. I teach truth and love and decency in a world full of anger and hate and my son is good while Dave's girls have been indoctrinated by a system that does not allow them to see that they are better than anyone else and yadayadayada

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: Emma B
Date: 02 Oct 09 - 08:43 PM

"I've been hounded on the internet for the way I write"

No Lizzie, it's because you write as 'facts' things that are simply inaccurate or serious misreprentations of the truth.

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: CarolC
Date: 02 Oct 09 - 08:20 PM

I think it's important for people with learning differences to be able to use the word disability, and I won't stop doing it. This is because sometimes living in a world of people who mostly don't have these differences becomes a disability, because things aren't set up to accommodate people with these kinds of differences.

For instance, if someone who can't walk wants to go to school, they are allowed to use a wheel chair to get around the school. The inability to walk does not prevent them from being able to learn and do well in that environment because they are allowed to use tools that other people don't use in order to compensate for their deficiency. People with learning disabilities need to be able to use tools that help them cope with and adapt to the school environment also (if they are not being home schooled). For instance, in order for me to learn math, I need to not be always banging my head against my inability to retain and process numbers in my head. I need to have a tool that does that for me. When I was a child, I usually failed math or got at best, Ds (two above failing). It wasn't that I couldn't understand and learn the processes, I just couldn't hold the numbers in my head in order to actually do the process.

When I went back to college in my 30s armed with the new knowledge of my specific learning disability, I was able to insist, because of the Americans with Disabilities Act, that I be allowed to have either a calculator or a multiplication table with me at all times in math class. I was allowed to have a multiplication table and I got a B in that class. I would have gotten an A, but using the table took me much longer than the other students took, and I had to leave class before I was finished with the final exam to go pick up my son from daycare.

Had I not been able to call what I have a disability, I would have failed that class.

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: Folkiedave
Date: 02 Oct 09 - 08:16 PM

I've been hounded on the internet for the way I write. I've had a witch hunt out for years.

Not by me Lizzie. I have complained vociferously about WHAT you write.

Subtle difference.

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: Goose Gander
Date: 02 Oct 09 - 08:01 PM

I don't believe there is only one 'correct' way for one's brain to work. People called dyslexic or asperger's certainly process information differently, but that doesn't mean they have a 'bad brain' (cue the Ramones here). I have a friend working on a Ph.D in psychology dealing with border-line autism not as a problem to be 'fixed' but rather as part of a continuum of possible learning and processing styles.

We didn't have to 'fix' my brother, he just sort of grew out of his 'phase' - first through lots of physical kinetic activity (skateboarding, break-dancing, and surfing) then discovering and loving mathematics which led to computer programming.

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: Jack Campin
Date: 02 Oct 09 - 08:00 PM

More on that claim that Einstein was dyslexic. Does this look like a dyslexic person's work to you?

Einstein 1925 manuscript

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: CarolC
Date: 02 Oct 09 - 07:46 PM

Hell, I have not even said that there are more creative people with learning disabilities than those without. All I said is that it is common for people with learning disabilities to do well in creative endeavors.

Really, this need to outright lie about what I have said is just nasty and totally uncalled for.

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: Emma B
Date: 02 Oct 09 - 07:44 PM

the person with specific learning difficulties should just shut up and accept whatever we are told on this thread?

No ******* way Carol!

Believe it!