Tech: What's the best recorder?

Subject: Zoom Handy H1 - coming 30 July 2010
From: Joe Offer
Date: 01 Jun 10 - 08:23 PM

I see that Zoom has a Handy H1 Recorder coming out July 30, 2010. It's supposed to be less expensive than the H2 and H4, both of which are excellent. I wonder how good the H1 will be.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: Tech: What's the best recorder?
From: Lowden Jameswright
Date: 21 Mar 08 - 06:04 PM

Bought my H2 from Sound Control - £149; I know I could have got it cheaper on the net but those guys at Sound Control look after me and don't treat me like some half-wit non-tech (though they may have a chuckle after I've left the store).

Thanks for the tip-off for SD cards Nick - I thought I'd done well at the price!

John Lewis do a nice case at £9.99 that takes the H2 in it's "strand" case + all the other tranklements so you can use it as a travel case, then take out the smaller case for the evening out. I guess I'm just a case freak (or maybe a freak case).

Happy recording guys!!

Subject: RE: Tech: What's the best recorder?
From: Nick
Date: 21 Mar 08 - 01:24 PM

Reaper is a much more specialised piece of software (with a correspondingly higher learning curve but excellent manual) for recording on a PC. Audacity I find really useful for a lot of straightforward tasks. More like Cubase or similar products and you could get very good results with it. Audacity I have never really used for multi-tracked tunes or for recording guitar or vocals.

Subject: RE: Tech: What's the best recorder?
From: Suegorgeous
Date: 21 Mar 08 - 01:12 PM

Thanks Lowden, I do usually shop around rather than buy high-street, but good to know. What did you pay for your H2, and where did you buy it? The case info is great too.

Does Reaper do the same job as Audacity?

Sue

Subject: RE: Tech: What's the best recorder?
From: Nick
Date: 21 Mar 08 - 12:09 PM

I bought a 4gb memory card from this ebay shop for £9.99 + £1.95 delivery and it came within two days. I'm not sure where you are likely to buy from but this guy was fine and I had no problems and arrived in two days - Zoom H2 - in case it's useful.

Lowden thanks for the tip on the case I could do with one

Here's a little six minute demo of extracts of 15 songs and tunes I've put together that was recorded on the Zoom H2 for our band as we needed to get something to someone for a potential gig at some speed! Not unhappy with the result. Put together using my other favourite program - Reaper

Six Minute Demo of Eric Pope and The Cardinals

Subject: RE: Tech: What's the best recorder?
From: Lowden Jameswright
Date: 21 Mar 08 - 11:42 AM

Now having just slated Argos for the price of their SD cards, I have to recommend them for a suitable case for the H2 - a brilliant purchase at around £3.50 is the "strand" digital camera case; it's a perfect fit to take the H2, ear-buds, SD card(s), table stand and a couple of spare AA batteries.

You can of course go for a designer brand of case, like a Sony for instance, at around a rip-off thirty quid, but folk enthusiasts are much too discerning for that surely!

Subject: RE: Tech: What's the best recorder?
From: Lowden Jameswright
Date: 21 Mar 08 - 11:24 AM

Good luck with the H2 Sue - it comes with a 512mb card but you'll need extra memory for recording lengthy sessions; don't buy from high street stores or Argos/John Lewis etc - you'll get ripped off. For a 2Gig SD High Speed 80x card you'll pay £14.50 from MemoryBits as against £35 from Argos - it works straight out of the "box" and needs no formatting. The H2 will even take an 8Gig card.


http://www.memorybits.co.uk/index.php?cPath=756&sort=2a&page=2&s=dd6a4d3ae48887bf4d465fa8f6b1b8a9

Subject: RE: Tech: What's the best recorder?
From: Lowden Jameswright
Date: 20 Mar 08 - 03:19 PM

I spent some time editing H2 tracks in Soundforge, and dropped them onto a CD which is simply a compilation of songs and tunes from a couple of folk clubs - the result is a very acceptable mix which serves as a nice sample of the world of folk we like to inhabit. Can't wait for the festivals.

Subject: RE: Tech: What's the best recorder?
From: Suegorgeous
Date: 19 Mar 08 - 09:20 PM

This thread was very useful to me, and after some further thought, I'm going out to buy the H2 this week, then try it out at the folk weekend I'm going to.

Thanks all!

Subject: RE: Tech: What's the best recorder?
From: Nick
Date: 19 Mar 08 - 02:41 PM

I'd echo what Lowden says. There is still a thread here which has a load of sound examples from various different places which might help give you an idea of what things might sound like.

I use mine A LOT. In the last 24 hours I have used it to practice new songs sitting in the car at work at lunchtime. I went to a concert last night and sat it on the floor and recorded what was on (I know it was terrible of me but it was wonderful fiddle playing) and the quality is very reasonable. And I'm listening to my lunchtime practicing as I type this and thinking perhaps I should'nt sing these particular songs this week :)!! Tonight I will probably take it with me to our weekly singaround and experiment more.

Subject: RE: Tech: What's the best recorder?
From: Lowden Jameswright
Date: 19 Mar 08 - 02:09 PM

I bought a Zoom H2 on March 1st and have recorded in local folk clubs and at home. It is excellent, and very easy to use. The quality of sound is amazing, and it's a genuine go anywhere recorder. The Zoom H4 is so called because it is a 4 track recorder, but it preceeded the H2 and from reviews it would appear the H2 is a much better buy, and benefits from later technology. The H2 has 4 mics; two front and two rear, and can record 360 deg which is ideal for recording a band.

Read the reviews in the links in previous posts. The Edirol R09 is obviously another very good quality product. Although you can't expect the same quality you might get from a 8 or 16 track home recording studio (although for convenience and quick takes I use my H2 rather than my Roland digital 8 track) you'll be very impressed with the sound quality.

Good luck.

Subject: Need recording advice
From: GUEST,RTeresa
Date: 19 Mar 08 - 01:49 PM

I'm looking to record my singing for placement on myspace
and I'm also seeking to record my band's live performances.
I've heard that the Zoom H4, Tascam DR1, Edirol R09, and Roland were good. I've done some research but I'm still unsure as to which would be the best for me. Again, I just want to be able to take a live recording of me or my band or just an acapella recording of myself and place it on the net. Any help would be greatly appreciated...

Teresa

Subject: RE: Tech: What's the best recorder?
From: Desert Dancer
Date: 04 Mar 08 - 12:42 PM

Lowden Jameswright's Feb 28, 4:30 pm post has an H2 review from a folkie; here's that same reviewer's earlier take on the Edirol R-09: click.

Subject: RE: Tech: What's the best recorder?
From: Lowden Jameswright
Date: 04 Mar 08 - 10:55 AM

I'm sure you're right Mark; Horses for Courses - I was looking for something small and light that I could easily take anywhere with me.

Subject: RE: Tech: What's the best recorder?
From: GUEST,Mark
Date: 04 Mar 08 - 09:22 AM

I think the Edirol R09 is superb - and a much livelier sound than the H2. Just my personal taste but I think it's worth the extra money.

Subject: RE: Tech: What's the best recorder?
From: Nick
Date: 03 Mar 08 - 09:30 PM

I've started a new thread specifically on my first experiences and impressions of the Zoom H2 with a bunch of audio examples - on this thread

Subject: RE: Tech: What's the best recorder?
From: Lowden Jameswright
Date: 01 Mar 08 - 03:55 AM

I can afford the Edirol R09 but it's too big for me to cart around; I want something I can take out of my pocket at short notice and set up quickly, to capture songs on the fly. For studio quality recordings I already have the kit I need at home. I was going to buy the more expensive H4, but it looks as though the H2 is a better buy anyhow. I realized long ago that price doesn't always mean better quality when I went to buy a Martin guitar and chose a superior guitar at half the price.

Subject: RE: Tech: What's the best recorder?
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 01 Mar 08 - 03:13 AM

Always get the best you can afford - don't be tempted to skimp because it sure as hell won't pay in the long term.

LTS

Subject: RE: Tech: What's the best recorder?
From: Lowden Jameswright
Date: 29 Feb 08 - 04:35 PM

...and just listened to the H2 sound file of acoustic guitar; that does it for me, over and out.. 139 quid - a snip

Subject: RE: Tech: What's the best recorder?
From: Lowden Jameswright
Date: 29 Feb 08 - 04:30 PM

Brilliant detailed review of H2 here, together with sample sound files:

http://digitalmedia.oreilly.com/2007/09/13/review-zoom-h2-surround-recorder.html

Subject: RE: Tech: What's the best recorder?
From: Lowden Jameswright
Date: 29 Feb 08 - 04:04 PM

Warnings about the H4 here:

http://www.sonicstudios.com/zoomh4rv.htm

I'm off shopping tomorrow and unless someone here persuades me otherwise, it's gonna be an H2 - the H4 preceeded the H2 and is now heavily discounted; maybe that tells it's own story.....

Subject: RE: Tech: What's the best recorder?
From: Don Firth
Date: 29 Feb 08 - 03:48 PM

I broke the budget and bought a whole mess of recording equipment a few weeks back, but so far I haven't been able to set it up properly—still need to get a couple of mic stands, plus setting up my office as a studio.

But since I was blowing the budget anyway (can't do that again for awhile!), I got a Zoom H2 to pack around and do some "pre-recording;" practice and such. I'm still trying to absorb the manual, but I've used it a couple of times for just "quick-and-dirty" recordings, downloaded it onto my computer, and it sounds great. And this was on the lowest WAV setting, 16 bit, 44.1 sample rate. I didn't think I sounded that great (that's a whole different matter; and I was just trying the Zoom out), but I thought the Zoom performed beautifully.

One thing about the Zoom H2 that I found annoying was the screen light. It only stays on for 15 seconds, undoubtedly to save the batteries, and about the time I figured out what I wanted to do, the bloody light went out! But in perusing the manual, on page 82, it explains how to extend the time to 30 seconds, or set it so the light just stays on.

Handy to know.

I don't know if it would be up to "studio quality." The inbuilt mics or 1/8" mic input might be the weakest link there. Search as I might, I haven't been able to find any specs on the inbuilt mics anywhere. But the other specs look very good.

Sure beats the sauce out of the old Panasonic portable cassette recorder I used to pack around!

Don Firth

Subject: RE: Tech: What's the best recorder?
From: Lowden Jameswright
Date: 29 Feb 08 - 03:42 PM

Good review of H2 here

http://rontech.blogspot.com/2007/07/first-real-zoom-h2-review-on-internet.html

Subject: RE: Tech: What's the best recorder?
From: Nick
Date: 29 Feb 08 - 01:25 PM

Cost was a factor given what I wanted to use it for and the Edirol was just that much more. Including a UK power supply the Zoom cost £138 and that was really as much as I wanted to spend.

If you are interested Sue I'd happily send you an example of what the Zoom I have produces. I can put an example or two somewhere on the web at various qualities and types.

I recorded a couple of things last night to try it which was just bashing it onto the coffee table setting it on Medium pointing the back of it towards my wife and the front towards me. She sang I played guitar and there is the TV on in the background!! Hi fi stuff eh? Also tried it with me playing acoustic and my son jamming away on an electric.

Tomorrow I will record a practice with fiddle, guitar, mandolin and electric bass with the intention being to plonk it in the middle of us 4 and see what happens.

In the evening some friends and I are meeting up to play in a local pub - probably couple of guitars, couple of fiddles, bodhran and assorted voices - and again I'm just going to pop it down and see what happens.

Pm me if it would be any help
Nick

Out of interest do people tend to record to WAV exclusively? I was tempted to use mp3 at 320 for most things as it is mostly for use as a practice and learning aid to carry new tunes and songs from the band around for me to learn and as a little thig to record ideas for tunes and songs and things that might otherwise get lost or forgotten. The fact that it is small and very light means I will probably carry it with me at most times.

Subject: RE: Tech: What's the best recorder?
From: Maryrrf
Date: 29 Feb 08 - 09:05 AM

Haven't tried the Edirol, but the Zoom H4 is cheaper and has more features and gets good ratings.

Subject: RE: Tech: What's the best recorder?
From: Suegorgeous
Date: 29 Feb 08 - 08:50 AM

Nick - my pleasure (for starting it anyway!). :)

Except it now seems to be well divided between Edirol and Zoom, and I can't make a decision!! :(

Subject: RE: Tech: What's the best recorder?
From: Nick
Date: 28 Feb 08 - 08:52 PM

Prompted by this thread I went out and got a Zoom H2 and after half an evening of getting acquainted I'm going to have a whale of a time with it. Very very easy to use. I sat and recorded half a dozen songs and tunes with it on the coffee table and it sounds much better than I thought it would. Very compact so I'll probably end up carrying it with me pretty much everwhere and easy enough to sit in a quiet corner at work and have a practice at lunchtime.

On Saturday I have a practice with bass, cuple of guitars and a fiddle in the afternoon which I'm going to try it out to see how it goes and a session in the pub in the evening where we'll see how it gets on.

So far I'm dead impressed with it.

Thanks for the thread.

Subject: RE: Tech: What's the best recorder?
From: GUEST,LTS pretending to work
Date: 28 Feb 08 - 03:51 AM

Dolmetsch are still doing pretty well, although there are some very good cheap plastic ones available for schools. They come in an ivory coloured plastic so are quite distinguishable.

I learned on a Dolmetsch descant, it still has the dip in the fipple gouged by my front tooth, which, until I bust it in a cycling accident, stuck out considerably more than it does now. After I broke the tooth, the fipple wouldn't sit properly so I bought myself an Aulos - these were considered the recorders that 'rich kids' used at my school... they were twice the price.

I was once privileged to have a play on a rosewood sopranino that had been hand turned by Herr Dolmetsch himself. It cost £400 then.... nearly 30 years ago!

LTS

Subject: RE: Tech: What's the best recorder?
From: Maryrrf
Date: 27 Feb 08 - 12:23 PM

I've just gotten the Zoom H4 and am starting to play with it. Will let you know how things go but so far it looks like it does a lot! I've gotten as far as recording a song in stereo, importing it into Audacity, and editing it a bit and it wasn't difficult to do.

Subject: RE: Tech: What's the best recorder?
From: Lowden Jameswright
Date: 27 Feb 08 - 09:50 AM

Is an Edirol R09 really worth double the price of a Zoom H2? The H2 seems to tick most boxes compared to the Edirol and takes up less space in you pocket..

If someone can still make a strong case for the Edirol though...........

Subject: RE: Tech: What's the best recorder?
From: Tootler
Date: 26 Feb 08 - 06:52 PM

Dolmetsch? (gets coat)

Still making some excellent top end recorders,

Their plastic ones are pretty good these days, especially the Tenor and Bass

Subject: RE: Tech: What's the best recorder?
From: nickp
Date: 26 Feb 08 - 05:56 AM

The latest (free download) for the Edirol r-09 is version 1.30 and I applied it over the weekend - it enables the 8 Gig SDHC cards, so thats' about 13 hours 44100hz 16 bit WAV and about 60 hours of mp3...

I think it still breaks the file at 2gig but it should be seamless and just means a smidgeon of editing later - or another new feature is to force the file break by pressing the repeat a-b button while recording.

I've sent for my 8gig card having got a decent price through Amazon (UK).

Still stunned by how good that little recorder is.

Nick

Subject: RE: Tech: What's the best recorder?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 25 Feb 08 - 06:03 PM

Still making some excellent top end recorders, and if you google Dr Brian Blood you will find some very learned discourses

Subject: RE: Tech: What's the best recorder?
From: Suegorgeous
Date: 25 Feb 08 - 11:31 AM

Richard

Good god, are they still going? had them at school! (one or two, ahem, years ago)

Subject: RE: Tech: What's the best recorder?
From: rabbitlegs
Date: 25 Feb 08 - 08:16 AM

Anybody know much about the Boss Micro BR?

Subject: RE: Tech: What's the best recorder?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 25 Feb 08 - 07:58 AM

Dolmetsch? (gets coat)

Subject: RE: Tech: What's the best recorder?
From: gnomad
Date: 25 Feb 08 - 07:06 AM

Thomann

Subject: RE: Tech: What's the best recorder?
From: Saro
Date: 25 Feb 08 - 04:45 AM

I got my Edirol from a company called Thomann, who I'm told do a pretty competitive price. You can find them via Google, and their delivery was very fast.
Saro

Subject: RE: Tech: What's the best recorder?
From: Anglo
Date: 25 Feb 08 - 02:49 AM

Well, Anahata has the right idea (hah!) inviting us to use Schoeps MK41s, but a pair of these will cost around $2000. Not in my range I'm afraid, for what I use the machine for.

I'm afraid I'll continue to use the built-in mics on my R-09. If I want something a bit better I still have my stereo Audio-Technica AT825 from the days of my DAT portable (long dead).

Subject: RE: Tech: What's the best recorder?
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 24 Feb 08 - 11:44 PM

Does anybody have any experience with SONY's entry in the field?

Subject: RE: Tech: What's the best recorder?
From: Suegorgeous
Date: 24 Feb 08 - 09:06 PM

Marvellous! thanks all. Think I'm heading for an Edirol.....now, next question....any suggestions for which sites/shops to try for the best deal?

Sue

Subject: RE: Tech: What's the best recorder?
From: mattkeen
Date: 08 Feb 08 - 03:03 PM

The big difference with digital recordings now as far as I am converned is the amount of dynamic range a 24 bit system is capable of. You can really go from very quiet to very loud without background noise. Loads of head room.


Doesn't matter if you heavish band bound for radio as it will be compressed to death at the mastering stage anyway.

But if you have first hand experience of a pair of Schoeps, Gefells etc oing through really good pre amps into a quality 24 bit recorder you will hear a HUGE diffrence over a cassette even the ridiculously expensive Revox one I had in the 80's

Subject: RE: Tech: What's the best recorder?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 06 Feb 08 - 07:23 PM

I can honestly say that I never heard music on cassette reproduced without flutter on any equipment I've ever heard it played on, and that includes some very high quality gear. Cassette players were the iPods of their day. Music for the couldn't-care-less-about-sound-quality masses.

Subject: RE: Tech: What's the best recorder?
From: treewind
Date: 06 Feb 08 - 02:47 PM

Well... yes, but most people haven't heard a *really* good cassette recorder. And the difference in background hiss is a big difference. There is also less distortion, no wow/flutter and better frequency response, flatter and going further at both ends of the spectrum.

I think your point is better made by saying that the quality of recording on the digital recorders is wasted using the internal mics - plug a pair of Schoeps MK41's in though a good preamp and you would have as good as any other stereo recording - and with good monitoring I think you'd hear it was better than even a Walkman Pro.

Anahata

Subject: RE: Tech: What's the best recorder?
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 06 Feb 08 - 02:27 PM

Remember that the quality of the music on modern digital recorders is little better than that on the best audio cassette recorders, such as Sony Pro Walkman. The big improvement of course is lack of hiss on the recording, unless the record level is set too low. I have done headphone tests on this and I was quite surprised. The other big improvement is much longer record times and the ability to upload to a PC, convert to FLAC and then upload to Dime for others to hear.

Subject: RE: Tech: What's the best recorder?
From: Folkiedave
Date: 06 Feb 08 - 09:21 AM

I have a radio show and the station has Edirol RO-9's for reporters etc.

I haven't recorded music only speech so far - but it is great and naturally the sound at best setting is remarkable.

Not my own money so I haven't tried the alternatives but the Edirol is great.

Dave

Subject: RE: Tech: What's the best recorder?
From: mattkeen
Date: 06 Feb 08 - 08:47 AM

Sedayne

Interesting tracks on your myspace page - thanks

Subject: RE: Tech: What's the best recorder?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 06 Feb 08 - 08:36 AM

For use with the built-in mics the H4 has three gain settings, L-M-H. I just set mine to M for the pub session and forget it. On my HiMD recorder I was forever fiddling around with the manual rec level and never seemed to get it any better than the default. You just need to avoid digital clipping at very loud bits, that's all. If you were using a slightly low level you can fix this with your editing program. It isn't something to get too stressed about. But you can fiddle with it manually if you really want to! None of these gizmos have manual settings that are easy to get right when you're on the fly.

Subject: RE: Tech: What's the best recorder?
From:
Date: 05 Feb 08 - 09:30 PM

I have both. Anglo's right the Record Level Control is VERY handy and is hard to access on the H4. Display on either is fairly small. The H4 will reduce the display's light intensity by quite a bit.
 
Sue, the ToD tells me what it is and why I recorded it because knowing the date and the time tells me what it is.
 
I have always taken the SD card out since my laptop has a card reader built-in. Very handy!
 
The fancy stuff I haven't gotten around to using either.

Subject: RE: Tech: What's the best recorder?
From: Anglo
Date: 05 Feb 08 - 08:59 PM

The main reason I bought the Edirol R-09 rather than the somewhat cheaper Zoom H2 is that the Edirol has buttons on the box for record level control, and my understanding is that on the Zoom this is a software control. If I'm recording something I want to be able to look at the levels and adjust them with a dedicated button. I don't do a great deal of recording, but I'm very happy with the Edirol. Maybe you Zoom users can tell me how you adjust record level on the H2.

Transfer to computer is slow - I only have USB 1 - I guess I should follow M.Ted's advice and get a card reader.