BS: UK General election December 12 2019

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 11 Nov 19 - 02:56 PM

"Stuff a sock in yer gob, eh?"
Why ?
Do you dispute any of that - if so, what ?
I get tired of me and my friends being accused of being antisemitic by people who awr happy to use the Jewish People as political clubs
- Bobad it the worst bow Bearded Bruce has done a runner
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 11 Nov 19 - 02:53 PM

He isn't worth it, Jim. And the sheer hypocrisy of accusing someone ELSE of having two identities. Bwahahahaha!

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Mossback
Date: 11 Nov 19 - 09:36 AM

Jesus, Jim - you're completely hopeless, aintcha? Stuff a sock in yer gob, eh?

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 11 Nov 19 - 08:43 AM

Bobad
Israel's ploy of describing its policies - ethnic cleansing in particular, as "Jewish" is the direct cause of the sahrp rise in Antisemitism - that is not just confined to The Labour Party but is happening throughout the world
Israel has not only refused to condemn antisemites like Trump and Orban, but is welcoming them as supporters
Your refusal to even comment on that calls into question your own suppoert for the Jewish People and sgests your interest is more politically driven rather than concern for the Jews
HERE
AND HERE
HERE TOO

I don't suppose this interests you but is sure puts your concern for the Jewish People where it belongs
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: bobad
Date: 11 Nov 19 - 07:58 AM

Even though Greg and friends are in denial, Jeremy Corbyn isn't: Jeremy Corbyn admits his Labour Party has an anti-Semitism problem

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: DMcG
Date: 11 Nov 19 - 07:33 AM

From live feeds: Farage says Brexit party will not fight Tories in 317 seats


I may be wrong, but I suspect this may turn out to be the most significant move in the entire campaign.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 11 Nov 19 - 07:07 AM

"Still, let's leave this as a Brexit thread"
Wot - and miss a free trip to Mordor !!
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: DMcG
Date: 11 Nov 19 - 06:24 AM

As my first post said, Nigel, that was the context that the spokesman intended for the statement. I followed that by saying it was probably not how people thought of Frodo.


I am a bit surprised, Nigel, I admit. I expected you to point out that it was not so much destroying the ring as the quest to destroy the ring that impacted his homeland. Still, let's leave this as a Brexit thread than change it into some sort of online book club.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 11 Nov 19 - 06:16 AM

But possibly worth pointing out, as those who know the books will confirm, in the end Frodo could not bring himself to destroy the Ring. It was Gollum who brought about its end.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: DMcG
Date: 11 Nov 19 - 05:27 AM

And for those who know the book, rather than the films, perhaps not a good idea to point out destroying the ring brought devastation on his homeland ...

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: DMcG
Date: 11 Nov 19 - 05:23 AM

Apparently someone in number 10 has referred to Nigel Farage as Frodo Baggins, in the context of him succumbing to the temptation of the ring at the final moments on Mt Doom, and so on the point of failing on the mission he has worked so long for at the last moment.


Unfortunately I suspect more people will think of Frodo as the only guy who could successuly rescue all the world from the ultimate evil. Perhaps not what the 'spokesman' intended.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 10 Nov 19 - 05:13 PM

More shit-clearing.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Iains
Date: 10 Nov 19 - 03:03 PM

I notice my response asking for the claims
From: Backwoodsman - PM
Date: 10 Nov 19 - 08:11 AM to be substantiated has been deleted!

More political moderation?

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Iains
Date: 10 Nov 19 - 03:00 PM

So Mossback pray tell why is an official government body holding an enquiry into the allegations.
FYI The Equality and Human Rights Commission is a non-departmental public body in England and Wales, established by the Equality Act 2006 with effect from 1 October 2007. The Commission has responsibility for the promotion and enforcement of equality and non-discrimination laws in England, Scotland and Wales.
When the enquiry completes we will know if the accusations have substance.
Trying to deny the accusations when the official enquiry is in progress is not the action of a sentient being.
You will be trying to tell me a government organisation is staffed by trolls next. Get real!

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 10 Nov 19 - 02:20 PM

Amen, Mossy.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Mossback
Date: 10 Nov 19 - 02:04 PM

For fuck's sake, gang - not this "antisemitism" wrangle yet again. What is this, Groundhog Day?

You know its bullshit, I know its bullshit, virtually every sentient being with even a grain of intelligence on the planet knows its bullshit.

Troll Central LLC (i.e. Inanes, BooBad and HirsuteBruce) will NEVER ADMIT THAT ITS BULLSHIT.

Give it a rest, already!

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Iains
Date: 10 Nov 19 - 01:30 PM

Will whover is making these claims please stop using the Jewish People as human shields or right-wing political weapons

OH Dear!
1)The Equality and Human Rights Commission think there is a problem
2) The BBC documentary thinks there is a problem
3) The guardian thinks there is a problem
4)The Telegraph thinks there is a problem
5) The Jewish chronical thinks there is a problem.
6).................
7)Even Lord Blunkett has described his “despair” at the “anti-Semitism and thuggery” in the Labour Party and suggested Jeremy Corbyn is on course for a 1983-style drubbing at the polls.

But the troublemaker from Claire reckons there is not a problem!

It is not much of a contest to see who is the fool.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 10 Nov 19 - 01:00 PM

Every single claim of antisemitism has been linked directly to Israel ot its supporters - it is antisemitic by definition to link the actions of the state of Israel to the Jewish people as a whole
The sharp increase in world antisemitsm is directly linked to the fact that, thanks to Israel's efforts it is now impossible to tell the difference between criticism of Israel and persecution of the Jewish People
Will whover is making these claims please stop using the Jewish People as human shields or right-wing political weapons
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 10 Nov 19 - 12:41 PM

Jonathon Friedland
Israel, Zionism and antisemitism
A leading liberal Zionist in the UK

Whoops
No Jews, no antisemitism
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 10 Nov 19 - 12:38 PM

Lads, lads! You should know better by now :-(

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Iains
Date: 10 Nov 19 - 11:56 AM

Isreal political interference again, I'm afraid

I think not. It is merely you being a racist that refuses to see what is widely acknowledged to be a problem of Labours' leadership.
Even the Guardian recognises that there is a problem
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/jul/11/bbc-panorama-antisemitism-labour-racism-jeremy-corbyn
Even Panorama created a documentary of anti semitism


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F7eEQMyzLeo

The Guardian one day ago: "But the most recent poll found that 87% regard Corbyn as an antisemite, meaning an anti-Jewish racist."
When in a hole it is best to stop digging.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 10 Nov 19 - 11:28 AM

Jewish Ccronicle's stated policy
Although JC's support of Zionism somewhat decreased after Greenberg's death, it has consistently devoted considerable space to Israel and Zionism.
Under Leopold Greenberg, The JC was hostile to the Reform and Liberal movements in Britain. Over the years, attention shifted from Orthodoxy in Anglo-Jewry to developments in Progressive Judaism, while becoming more critical of the Orthodox position on halakhic issues.
In July 2019, a Jewish Chronicle editorial declared that "We want to see (the current Labour Party leadership) removed from any significant role in public life."

Isreal political interference again, I'm afraid
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Iains
Date: 10 Nov 19 - 11:07 AM

The Jewish Chronicle however Has this to say about Corbyn:
Throughout his career, he has allied with and supported antisemites such as Paul Eisen, Stephen Sizer and Raed Salah. He has described organisations like Hamas, whose founding charter commits it to the extermination of every Jew on the planet, as his “friends”. He has laid a wreath to honour terrorists who have murdered Jews. He has insulted “Zionists” — the word used by antisemites when they mean “Jew” because they think it allows them to get away with it

https://www.thejc.com/comment/leaders/to-all-our-fellow-british-citizens-1.491812
Magic grandad is a rather nasty piece of work.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 10 Nov 19 - 10:08 AM

Just in case this was missed

In August 2018, the Jewish News Foreign Editor, who had worked for the paper for six years and been editor on a Jewish news TV channel, took personal leave after describing the paper's coverage of Jeremy Corbyn as "repulsive" in its use of "vicious personal phrases" to "trash" a "dedicated anti-racist". The Foreign Editor said that the paper had an obsession with the Labour Party, leading to "overheated rhetoric", and failed to give a voice to Jews who think differently.[4]
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 10 Nov 19 - 08:11 AM

There are some quite happy to go Corbyn-bashing over a few people with hurt feelings and an agenda, but appear unconcerned about the problem of the suppression of reports on Russian donations to the Tory party, or Russian interference in our elections...

https://www.businessinsider.com/boris-johnson-blocked-report-naming-tory-donors-linked-to-kremlin-2019-11?r=US&IR=T

Copious amounts of ‘Seaman’ Staines’s propaganda does not negate this reality.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Iains
Date: 10 Nov 19 - 07:36 AM

There are some quite happy to go Tory bashing but appear unable to see the problems in their own backyard. Copious amounts of red ink does not negate this reality.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 10 Nov 19 - 06:13 AM

Happy Birthday - you don't look a day over 99
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 10 Nov 19 - 06:07 AM

100!

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 10 Nov 19 - 03:45 AM

Richard Ferrer - editor of pro Israeli Jewish News
There goes that link between Antisemitism and the Right Wing Israeli Government again - every accusation confirms where this nonsense of "antisemitism with the Jewish People removed" is coming from
Jim Carroll

Libel lawsuit and criticism
In February 2018, Jewish News lost a libel case brought by Baroness Warsi over allegations that she has sought to excuse the actions of Islamic State terrorists. The article also claimed she had objected to action being taken against British Muslims who murder and rape for the group, which Warsi said was “untrue and offensive”. Jewish News accepted that the article was false: it apologised and was ordered to pay damages of £20,000 and legal costs.[3]

In August 2018, the Jewish News Foreign Editor, who had worked for the paper for six years and been editor on a Jewish news TV channel, took personal leave after describing the paper's coverage of Jeremy Corbyn as "repulsive" in its use of "vicious personal phrases" to "trash" a "dedicated anti-racist". The Foreign Editor said that the paper had an obsession with the Labour Party, leading to "overheated rhetoric", and failed to give a voice to Jews who think differently.[4]

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Iains
Date: 10 Nov 19 - 03:27 AM

Labour, You have a problem!
https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/labour-antisemitism-corbyn-watson-formby-jewish-ehrc-investigation-a9006466.html

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 10 Nov 19 - 03:00 AM

The problem with that DMcG is that a lot of people have that same attitude towards foreigners. If Labour switch the focus to that it could win the Tories some votes :-(

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: DMcG
Date: 09 Nov 19 - 08:20 AM

Fair point, pete. But the reason it is being discussed is that the Tories see it as a major weapon against Labour. Make no mistake (as the other thread would have it), this is not because the Tories are particularly bothered about the Jewish community. Their primary interest is making Labour less attractive to all the well meaning non-Jewish people who rightly think antisemitism is appalling. That there is a Jewish community which has, in large part, voted Labour in the past and may not this time is a welcome bonus, but it is not, in itself, as significant. Those in London, for example, are more likely to switch from Labour to LibDem, not Conservative, especially if they are remainers. This is not about the Conservatives winning votes, just trying to make Labour lose as many as possible.

What you say about the Tory attitude to foreigners is quite right, but it will need Labour or other party to force that into the news against those parts of the media that support the Tories and/or Brexit and are quite happy to keep the focus elsewhere, thank you.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: peteglasgow
Date: 09 Nov 19 - 08:18 AM

'writing in the telegraph, david blunkett despairs about the bullying, anti-semitism blah, blah f****g blah.....' as an ordinary labour party member i despair at the way that prominent labour party members take it in turns at election times to offer their support to the tory party by sticking the knife in Labour. despair all you like blunkett, hodge, mandelson or whoever, but is it too much to ask that you despair in the comfort of your own conservative clubs? don't you think of the morale of thousands of party members who are working hard to get rid of the tories and how depressing it is to read your sour grumbling . to the telegraph. for money.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: peteglasgow
Date: 09 Nov 19 - 07:53 AM

i find it amazing that we are discussing, yet again, labour's response to their supposed anti-racism. or even the tories non-attempts to deal with anti-muslims in the party. when the huge elephant in the room is the hostile environment for foreigners which has been tory party policy for about a decade. their disgusting attitude to the windrush generation is an ongoing scandal yet gets very little press coverage these days. official tory party to attack british citizens! we don't even need to start on grenfell....

(i just read (again) about 'corbyn's anti-semitism' and (again) the first piece of evidence wheeled out was him liking a painting 25 years ago. it's clear that with the help of a few anti-labour people this is one piece of shit they threw at corbyn which seems to have stuck. i've never seen or heard anti-semitism in the labour party/trade union meetings i've been to and had any such bigotry come out i am confident it would have been immediately jumped upon by the majority of anti-racists in the room. by the way - i never saw those guys in the picture as jewish - just thought they were caricature greedy capitalists)

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 09 Nov 19 - 06:55 AM

I know it is banging my head on a wall but would you please stop with the sexism, Bonzo.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Iains
Date: 09 Nov 19 - 06:37 AM

A manufactured claim would hardly have sufficient grounds for an investigation by an official watchdog. The national front is the only other political organisation to be so investigated. Denial in the face of such compelling evidence seems the hallmark of a ???. As also is trying a spuruious counter argument of whataboutism.

The bookies favourites line up as follows:
PaddyPower Majority Odds (Previous in Brackets):

    No overall: 10/11 (5/6)
    Tories: 11/10 (6/5)
    Labour: 14/1 (14/1)
    Brexit Party: 150/1 (150/1)
    Lib Dems: 150/1 (150/1)

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 09 Nov 19 - 06:29 AM

There was a 19% swing to big tits swinson's party in Thursday's Croydon council bye bye election - a good pointer. I know of many tories and labour people who will vote lib dem on Dec12!!!

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: DMcG
Date: 09 Nov 19 - 06:26 AM

And following that, in the news today Tory peer rounds on Conservatives criticising Labour over antisemitism for their own failure to tackle Islamophobia

And, also whitesplaining.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 09 Nov 19 - 06:18 AM

"Failinng to deal wityh Antisemitism" seems to be a running theme in this election
Shortly after the claim was manufactured Muslim leaders complained to the Press that there was significant anti-Muslim problem in the Tory Party - the Tories have so far refused to address that problem
THIS IS HOW THE TORIES DEAL WITH SUCH CLAIMS

Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: DMcG
Date: 09 Nov 19 - 05:37 AM

Not sure about that, Sandman. If you look at actual betting shop odds, they think a Tory win most likely. I won't post a link as such, because the figures change all the time, but sites like

https://www.oddschecker.com/insight/politics

can show the current odds. These may or may not align with what pundits reckon.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: The Sandman
Date: 09 Nov 19 - 04:15 AM

no overall majority seems to be favourite odds

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: DMcG
Date: 09 Nov 19 - 03:52 AM

In fact, checking a few dates, the fieldwork began before 'Super Saturday' and much of it was before an election was announced. So it is a bit of a mixed bag of intentions: some taken when the PM was still asserting that his deal would get through by 31 Oct without an election and some when it was clear it would not and we were having an election, for example.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: DMcG
Date: 09 Nov 19 - 03:47 AM

A lot of the press is reporting the latest YouGov study of voter intentions. Rather less point out that the 'The fieldwork, conducted from 17 October – 4 November' was before the campaign started. So it is a useful baseline to judge the effectiveness of the campaigns against, but like all polls so long before the actual vote, it needs to be handled with considerable caution.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 08 Nov 19 - 11:04 PM

I do wonder why Johnson needs six weeks to read the report on Russian meddling in our elections when he believed it would only take our MPs forty-eight hours to study and assimilate all the implications of his EU Withdrawal Agreement?

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 08 Nov 19 - 05:58 PM

Ignore him. He's not worth it.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Mossback
Date: 08 Nov 19 - 05:51 PM

OK, lads - all of yis copy this out 100 times:

I promise I will not engage with or respond to Iains' puerile provocation.

Provocation puerile Iains' to respond or with engage not will I promise I.

etc......

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 08 Nov 19 - 04:30 PM

Once again, our Extreme Right-Wing Plant has failed to indicate that his post is a direct quote from his boss...

https://order-order.com/2019/11/08/labour-candidate-poor-less-educated-easier-control/?fbclid=IwAR1m_gggNsCMqFr-qFyx52ivadpjRQpv

Disgusting dishonesty. But then, what else would we expect from the Extreme Right Wing but dishonesty and deceit?

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Iains
Date: 08 Nov 19 - 03:16 PM

You would not be having a go at Mr Shaw would you?

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Raggytash
Date: 08 Nov 19 - 03:10 PM

A link to the rest of the post could well be enlightening I suspect.

Someone is WELL known for selective posts and lack of links.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Iains
Date: 08 Nov 19 - 02:14 PM

Louise Webberley, Labour’s candidate in the Leave-voting seat of Totnes, is not exactly going for outreach approach; sharing material on Facebook saying “lower income, less educated voiceless people are so much easier to control.” Labour came second in the seat in 2017…

Her forthright approach is unlikely to gain her much support.