BS: Condi Rice Runs out the clock...

Subject: RE: BS: Condi Rice Runs out the clock...
From: Barry Finn
Date: 09 Apr 04 - 04:41 PM

Clark apologized for failing the American people because it happened on his watch. Dr Rice excepted no responsiblity & made no apology for herself or for her administration claiming "who could've known". She was the cock of the walk, the head banana, the one who should've known what every one else knew. The one who should've seen to fixing the pipeline from the FBI & CIA. For all her intellegence she hasn't got the street sense God gave a rock. With all the info she had recievd it's impossible for me to believe that she didn't have an ear to the ground & an eye towards the sky, maybe all she had was a tounge in Bush's mouth. No one will turn upon the others, the rats can't jump ship until they're all sure she's going down with all hands & even then they care more for their own skins than they do for the nation. She was asked a couple times if she'd declassify some of the documents & make them available to the American people, she didn't even have the respect to acknowledge the question & continued on her merry way. She should be called the Teflon Doll but I doubt if the name would stick.

Barry

Subject: RE: BS: Condi Rice Runs out the clock...
From: Ebbie
Date: 09 Apr 04 - 03:52 PM

Wow. Kat, that is a powerful page. I have this moment subscribed to the service as well as made a donation to them.

I read John Dean's interview and will read others' as I go along.

Thanks, kat.

Subject: RE: BS: Condi Rice Runs out the clock...
From: katlaughing
Date: 09 Apr 04 - 11:57 AM

The full text of her testimony may be read at TruthOut. There is also an interesting interview there with John Dean, Nixon's former chief of staff, saying that he believes Bush lied and should be impeached.

Subject: RE: BS: Condi Rice Runs out the clock...
From: GUEST,Strick
Date: 09 Apr 04 - 11:19 AM

Sorry, that last post was me. Someone keeps eating my cookie and I didn't notice.

Subject: RE: BS: Condi Rice Runs out the clock...
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Apr 04 - 11:17 AM

"She burned up a lot of time arguing and providing her view of things when asked for a yes/no answer."

She's volunteered to come back if they ask. What I heard was a lawyer asking two questions, then insisting that since the second was a yes or no kind of question, she should answer both yes or no. Good for her for not putting up with that crap.

"'(1) First and foremost, Rice continues to make the now-discredited claim that the White House did not have intelligence warning them that terrorists were plotting to use airplanes as missiles in an attack on America. In 2002 she said, "I don't think anybody could have predicted that ... they would try to use an airplane as a missile, a hijacked airplane as a missile"

She said this in spite of the intelligence community having issued 12 separate warnings of such a plan, including a 1999 warning saying that "suicide bomber(s) belonging to al Qaeda's Martyrdom Battalion could crash-land an aircraft...into the Pentagon, the headquarters of the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA), or the White House'"

It will be interesting to see what was in those briefing papers because it doesn't matter what the "intelligence community" knew, it matters what was communicated. Problem is it would hardly be surprising for all this to be true with out any of the information necessarily being known to key people. Happens all the time in my organization with only 15,000 people. Imagine what it's like where by their very nature, everyone's trying to keep secrets. That is how spooks work, isn't it?

More importantly, I don't think it matters. Even with his supposed knowledge of the possibility of an attack, all Clarke recommended was setting up a defense specifically for the White House and Congress. How would that have helped the Twin Towers? The same goes for trying to stop the hijacking threat. I've been through dozens of hightened travel alerts traveling every week for the last 15 years. Nothing I saw in all those years would have prevented these hijackings -- until 9/11 everyone was looking for guns and bombs on the passengers, not boxcutters smuggled on the airplane before anyone boarded. As it was things had been on full alert for nearly 6 weeks prior to the attack at Clarke's insistence. What does Clarke think should have been done differently? Why is he only saying so now/

All in all something Clarke admitted early on is still the defining point in this. Even if he had gotten everything he asked for, nothing would have prevented 9/11. He's changed his tune since, but always says "I'd like to believe...". Nice sentiment, but he might as well be saying "If we had only known".

The smartest thing I've heard come out of all of this is what the vice chair of the 9/11 Commission said on TV the other night. It doesn't matter what focus any one in any administration had or what they thought was important.   What mattered was what they did. Clinton may have been more focused on terrorism as Clarke claims but Clinton and Bush achieved the same results -- neither hindered Al Qaeda significantly nor prevented the attack.

Subject: RE: BS: Condi Rice Runs out the clock...
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 09 Apr 04 - 11:05 AM

That was Bobert who discussed Cheney's hunting. I had to go back to see what inspired this seeming non-sequitur.

70 in one trip? What was the bag limit?

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Condi Rice Runs out the clock...
From: Metchosin
Date: 09 Apr 04 - 01:43 AM

Pheasants may be all over North America, Little Hawk, but they are not a native species. They're an introduced bird, but have been around so long and done so well, in some places, people just assume they are native. They are originally a bird of of the Ukraine through central Asia, southern China and Japan. They're also an introduced species in the UK too.

Subject: RE: BS: Condi Rice Runs out the clock...
From: Little Hawk
Date: 09 Apr 04 - 12:18 AM

It's politics, that's all. Don't expect honesty from people who are trying to get someone elected, and you won't be disappointed.

Subject: RE: BS: Condi Rice Runs out the clock...
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 09 Apr 04 - 12:09 AM

I was trying to post this when I realized the 'cat had crashed this afternoon:

I have no problem with Rice being called Dr. Rice. In academia this is commonplace--someone with the Ph.D. is Doctor Rice; if she had a terminal degree other than a Ph.D. (such as an MFA or an architect) then she would be Professor Rice.

She burned up a lot of time arguing and providing her view of things when asked for a yes/no answer. Bob Kerrey was trying to get answers and asking her to be fair and not burn up his time with her protests to be allowed to give extensive "context," but she kept up anyway. There was clearly no recourse for the panel if she didn't want to just answer the questions. At one point Kerrey made a remark and the gallery started to applaud--his response was swift "Don't do that!" He didn't want to waste time with public approval or disapproval of his remarks. After making one pointed remark at the beginning (because he wouldn't have the opportunity to face her in any other context) he was all business, there to have questions answered. She was clearly there to spout the party line and not give an inch. The last question from the last person was such a softball, allowing her to have the last word to assure Americans that Dubya was there to protect all of them.

Leaves a bad taste in your mouth.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Condi Rice Runs out the clock...
From: Little Hawk
Date: 08 Apr 04 - 11:50 PM

Condoleeza Rice is a tough harpie. She would make even Penelope Rutledge pause for careful thought.

There's a presidential election underway. The Truth is not the concern of these people. Dodging verbal bullets and creating a favourable impression of their candidate is their concern.

teribus - Yeah, pheasants are a large game bird found all over the North American countryside as far as I know. They're quite attractive, with long tails and lovely plumage. They don't fly that much, but are good for a short escape flight when frightened, and they are fast runners. You see them in fields and forests quite often, but don't usually see them for long.

- LH

Subject: RE: BS: Condi Rice Runs out the clock...
From: Bill D
Date: 08 Apr 04 - 11:00 PM

when they had days and days to brainstorm answers and positions, who even thought we'd get anything of substance out of her? They just keep claiming the vaguest points that can't easily be directly challenged with facts, and pretend they've 'answered'.

Let's hope another 1-2% of Americans see thru this in NOv.

Subject: RE: BS: Condi Rice Runs out the clock...
From: Don Firth
Date: 08 Apr 04 - 10:43 PM

I listened to the whole thing.

I'm amazed at the way the lady can smile and look like she's about to spit nails at the same time. But getting a straight answer out of her is like trying to nail Jell-O to the wall.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Condi Rice Runs out the clock...
From: Bobert
Date: 08 Apr 04 - 10:16 PM

Ahhhhh, like Osoma wants to hit the US hard and where it hurts and this ain't got anyone's attention???

Well, excuse me, but just waht do these folks do with their time, anyway???

Now they want it to seem like common place???

Hey, guy knocks on your door with a gun and says he's gonna take yer stuff and kill you and you go back to doing your crossword puzzle???

Come on!!!!!!

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Condi Rice Runs out the clock...
From: Ebbie
Date: 08 Apr 04 - 02:21 PM

I hope to read just what Dr. Rice did say.

From the Daily Mislead, April 8, 2004::

"(1) First and foremost, Rice continues to make the now-discredited claim that the White House did not have intelligence warning them that terrorists were plotting to use airplanes as missiles in an attack on America. In 2002 she said, "I don't think anybody could have predicted that ... they would try to use an airplane as a missile, a hijacked airplane as a missile"

She said this in spite of the intelligence community having issued 12 separate warnings of such a plan, including a 1999 warning saying that "suicide bomber(s) belonging to al Qaeda's Martyrdom Battalion could crash-land an aircraft...into the Pentagon, the headquarters of the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA), or the White House"

(2). When presented with these facts, she told the 9/11 Commission in January 2004 that she misspoke and that she "regretted" her earlier denials

(3). Yet less than four months after her apology, she made the same false claim, writing in a March 22, 2004 op-ed in the Washington Post that "we received no intelligence that terrorists were preparing to attack the homeland using airplanes as missiles"

(4) Secondly, Rice is now saying through spokesmen that she was "not briefed" about terrorists' plans to use airplanes as missiles before 2002, when she began making the false claim that she had no such warnings (

5). But even if Rice did neglect all 12 previous intelligence reports, she cannot claim she was never briefed about such a threat, considering she was the top national security official accompanying President Bush to the G-8 Summit in Genoa, Italy in July 2001. There, she and the president were explicitly warned that "Islamic terrorists might attempt to kill world leaders by crashing an airliner" into the summit."

Subject: RE: BS: Condi Rice Runs out the clock...
From: Teribus
Date: 08 Apr 04 - 01:58 PM

Hey Bobert, better not come over this side of the pond then, 35 brace for a days shooting would be considered pretty mediocre. Is pheasant a native species of the US?

Subject: RE: BS: Condi Rice Runs out the clock...
From: Bobert
Date: 08 Apr 04 - 01:47 PM

Amos,

This curent crew don't give a danged about birds 'er not much else. If they did then Dick Cheney wouldn't have taken Justice Scalia out fir a little hunting. Problem is is that there weren't no hunt to it since one domestic phesant after another were released so that chicken-hawks Cheney and Scalia could get their jollies blowing these domestically grown birds to pieces. Cheney himself murdered 70 of them before he tired of pulling the trigger.

Now that really pisses me off. He come 'round my joint trying to blow up my birds he's gonna find out just how hard the boney hillbilly can hit ya'. The man is a sicko... That goes for chickhawk Scalia, too.

Now back to chickenhawk Condi.

(Sorry fir the creep but I love birds...Grrrrrrr.....)

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Condi Rice Runs out the clock...
From: Teribus
Date: 08 Apr 04 - 01:41 PM

Ebbie,

Point taken, and I had read the link Amos provided:

"And just for more shucks and grins, see this column of Molly's discussing Clarke and the bombing of Mexico....just kidding!"

It was the six paragraph and three bullet point long preamble to that link that had nothing whatsoever to do with the thread that sort of threw me off. Additionally, the, "And just for more shucks and grins," introductions indicates that this link was supplied as an after-thought.

Subject: RE: BS: Condi Rice Runs out the clock...
From: Amos
Date: 08 Apr 04 - 01:37 PM

T:

Not much.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Condi Rice Runs out the clock...
From: Ebbie
Date: 08 Apr 04 - 01:32 PM

Teribus, might this be relevant to what Dr. Rice is saying?

"Then there's the case of Richard Clarke, the top adviser on counterterrorism to both Clinton and Bush.

"In his stunning interview on "60 Minutes," I thought the most chilling moment was what he said took place immediately after 9/11:

"Well, Rumsfeld was saying we needed to bomb Iraq. And we all said, 'But no, no. Al-Qaida is in Afghanistan.'

"And Rumsfeld said, 'There aren't any good targets in Afghanistan, and there are lots of good targets in Iraq.' I said, 'Well, there are lots of good targets in lots of places, but Iraq had nothing to do with it.' "

"Clarke said it was as though after Pearl Harbor, President Franklin D. Roosevelt had wanted to attack Mexico."
Molly Ivins

Subject: RE: BS: Condi Rice Runs out the clock...
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 08 Apr 04 - 01:29 PM

Anybody know where I can find a picture of Dr. Rice where she doesn't look like she's pissed off at the entire world?

Not necessarily a smile. Just a neutral or pensive expression, maybe?


And I'm not going to say anything about her using the "Doctor" tag, even though I think it's a bit pretentious for people holding non-medical doctorates to use the title outside of academic circles. I guess if it was good enough for Henry Kissinger it's good enough for Condi Rice.

Wait a minute! Condi Rice ain't no Henry Kissinger!

Subject: RE: BS: Condi Rice Runs out the clock...
From: Teribus
Date: 08 Apr 04 - 01:15 PM

Huh?? Amos what has anything in your post above got to do with the thread??

Subject: RE: BS: Condi Rice Runs out the clock...
From: Amos
Date: 08 Apr 04 - 12:55 PM

From Molly Ivins, Texas columnist:

AUSTIN, Texas -- O Karl Rove, Karl Rove, birder thou never wert. If George W. Bush loses the election narrowly in November, put it down to the birders. You read it here first. What was Rove thinking when he allowed William Haynes II to be nominated to the United States Court of Appeals for the Fourth Circuit?

There are all the usual reasons for rejecting a Bush judicial nominee -- he's only tried one case; no understanding of the Constitution; author of the "enemy combatant doctrine" that allows American citizens to be held in prison without trial, without counsel and without knowing the charges against them. But the fatal faux pas is the feather-blowing tale of Haynes' role as the top Defense Department lawyer in the case of the Migratory Bird Treaty Act.

DOD wanted to use an island in the Marianas for bombing practice, so Haynes' team of lawyers argued that bombing the bird haven would not break the treaty and that the bombing would actually enhance bird-watching because people "get more enjoyment out of spotting a rare bird than they do spotting a common one." By this logic, we should drive every bird on earth to near-extinction and just think what a thrill we'd get out of ever seeing one. According to The New York Times, "Mr. Haynes says he only supervised the case and was unaware of the bizarre claim." He only supervised the case?

Well! If you have never seen a flock of enraged birders, you don't know what danger is. These people don't just watch pewits and tweety-birds, they're into raptors, too -- falcons, eagles ... they know how to swoop and strike. If we find Rove beaten to a pulp with binoculars, it will be no surprise. How could he ignore the immemorial warning, "Beware the wrath of the birding legions!"

Back to business. There's no way to keep up with the Bush administration's assaults on the environment, they're just endless. Most notable lately was the decision to let mercury pollution, which is extremely toxic, continue. With current technology, we could cut mercury emissions by 90 percent in four years. Instead, the Bushies chose a plan that will reduce it by 50 percent over 14 years, thus saving millions for their big campaign contributors in the power, coal and chemical industries. To make up for it, they warned pregnant women not to eat tuna. But that's not all:

-- The U.S. Forest Service is going to eliminate any reviews of its actions by outside agencies for compliance with clean water, endangered species and historical preservation laws.

-- The Department of Energy is moving to overturn a court decision on standards to clean up the country's most toxic and radioactive waste.

-- The Environmental Protection Agency's inspector general has concluded that senior Bushies at EPA have repeatedly made misleading statements about purported improvements in drinking water quality. (Oh no, not Bushies lying!)

And just for more shucks and grins, see this column of Molly's discussing Clarke and the bombing of Mexico....just kidding!

A

Subject: RE: BS: Condi Rice Runs out the clock...
From: Blackcatter
Date: 08 Apr 04 - 12:44 PM

I still get a kick out of the attitude that no one could see the possibility of an event like 9-11. There was a movie being made at the time that had the same scenerio.

As for her complaining that the "chatter" wasn't anything more than "Something BIG is coming up" What the hell were they expecting?

She's just Bush's house slave.

Subject: RE: BS: Condi Rice Runs out the clock...
From: Amos
Date: 08 Apr 04 - 12:40 PM

Well, she's expert at on-the-spot composition of thoughtful remarks that end up leaving you where you started. I can imagine her defending a Doctoral thesis like that. She's got a great "rapid composition" machine in her head. Sounds soooo intelligent.

But it doesn't do much to explain the blood in the sand, and the boxes of belongings that arrive home instead of the 20-year-old son.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Condi Rice Runs out the clock...
From: CarolC
Date: 08 Apr 04 - 11:49 AM

She often has a sort of half-smirk on her face when she's lying. Has she been doing much of that?

Subject: RE: BS: Condi Rice Runs out the clock...
From: GUEST
Date: 08 Apr 04 - 11:42 AM

As I read this my radio is on and she's still blahhhh blahhhh etc,ing.
I was particularly put off by her opening remarks, obviously written by the White House Double-Speak crafters.
It has been interesting to hear her tone of voice change as the qustions get more challenging.
She also is obnoxiously interruptin people mid-question.
I wouls like to see her facial, and body language at those times. But not enough to go out and find a TV.
Bill C

Subject: RE: BS: Condi Rice Runs out the clock...
From: Ellenpoly
Date: 08 Apr 04 - 11:39 AM

I haven't heard or read anything yet, Bobert, but really, were we expecting anything more? I know this is a completely un-PC expression, and I apologize for using it, but I've always thought "shuckin' and jivin'" pretty much sums up all political spin.

Subject: BS: Condi Rice Runs out the clock...
From: Bobert
Date: 08 Apr 04 - 11:16 AM

Well, no matter what mistakes were made by the Bush administration that Dick Clark brought up in his testimony before the 9/11 Comission, I have to give credit for Condi Rice in out talking the Comission. When asked yes or no questions by the Democratin members, she answered in length, saying purdy much nuthin'...

Then the Repubs would give her the easy questions which allowed here more blah, blah, blah time.

Blah, blah, blah,

Congrates on the performance, Dr. Rice, but America is no closer to knowing how to prevent another 9/11 or understanding what brought about the last one, from it...

End of critique.

Bobert