BS: Spark Plug Ceramics Breaking Windows

Subject: RE: BS: Spark Plug Ceramics Breaking Windows
From: Gurney
Date: 01 Jul 07 - 08:02 PM

John, I'd say they were pieces of spark-plug ceramic, and he missed the doorglass at first, from the sound. What he picks up seems to go straight through the glass. I'm dubious, too.
I don't have a spare piece of toughened glass to test it, though.

Is there another round of Myth Busters coming up?

Subject: RE: BS: Spark Plug Ceramics Breaking Windows
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 01 Jul 07 - 02:20 PM

Cluin -

In the Youtube video, the "demonstrator" shows a couple of small objects that look like washers - not parts of a spark plug - which have no effect. He then bends down and picks up "something else" which he throws and shatters the window. The object he picks up is never shown, and I don't see any description of what actually was thrown. There also seems to be a "gap" in the video that isn't present in the audio, indicating the sound was dubbed over after the video was edited.

Belive what you will, but I'm slightly dubious.

John

Subject: RE: BS: Spark Plug Ceramics Breaking Windows
From: Cluin
Date: 01 Jul 07 - 03:37 AM

They don't use the whole sparkplug--on a string or any other way. It is just a tiny piece of ceramic broken off from from the sparkplug, smaller than a marble, that they use to break the window. It's hard to believe it will do that much damage, but they stand back and just throw it at the window and it shatters it completely. I saw this demonstrated on a news program several months ago. No doubt so did a lot of soon-to-be thieves.

video of it on Youtube

Subject: RE: BS: Spark Plug Ceramics Breaking Windows
From: GUEST,Gurney, missing his cookie.
Date: 30 Jun 07 - 11:03 PM

and pressing the wrong key...
The guest who lost the screen was me.
The car was a Vauxall Victor, the incident about 1960, in England.

I've also had a Mini bonnet flip up on me, at speed, in traffic, and it was one of the original ones, with sliding doorglasses. Scarey.

Where is the cookie graveyard?

Subject: RE: BS: Spark Plug Ceramics Breaking Windows
From: GUEST,Gurney, missing his cookie.
Date: 30 Jun 07 - 10:55 PM

Subject: RE: BS: Spark Plug Ceramics Breaking Windows
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 30 Jun 07 - 04:27 PM

The one I had didn't have the pushbuttons - or an automatic transmission, although I did test a 1966 2-1/2T 8-wheeled truck that did - a few years after they "officially" removed them from all their automobiles.

They didn't work much better in the truck than in the autos. We had to "jury rig" a way to change gears after we broke all the buttons they had.

John

Subject: RE: BS: Spark Plug Ceramics Breaking Windows
From: John Hardly
Date: 30 Jun 07 - 09:52 AM

...in a 1961 Plymouth Valiant

with pushbutton transmission?

Subject: RE: BS: Spark Plug Ceramics Breaking Windows
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 30 Jun 07 - 09:44 AM

John. You don't slum as Gargoyle, do you?

:-P

Subject: RE: BS: Spark Plug Ceramics Breaking Windows
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 30 Jun 07 - 01:40 AM

So far as I've seen windshields (the front glazing) on US autos have been exclusively laminated glass since at least the early 1940s. These usually will run a crack or two if you hit a hootie owl, but you generally will be able to see around the crack.

I think I vaguely recall a period of overlap when some European makers were using tempered glass for frontal glazing, which does craze and "frost the view" if broken. Local dealers for a time were claiming that "if you bought an import you'd have to replace the glass." The claim was totally false relative to the "US ready" imports they competed with, but there appeared to be just the grain of truth relative to some other "furrin" makers. I can't say that I've looked into this bit of history.

I can attest that when driving at 60 mph (~96 kph) when it's -10F (-23C) OAT, with the defroster (demister) blowing hard against the windshield in a 1961 Plymouth Valiant fully warmed up to sprint temperature, a broken heater hose on the aft side of the firewall produces an instant whiteout.

Great gobs of hot coolant are thrown in a spray against the windshield/windscreen, producing an impenetrable layer of ice instantly, hard enough that it can't be cracked with "anything within reach."

In addition, the instant transition to 100%+ relative humidity inside the car freezes the side glass to the rubber drip extrusions, effectively preventing one from opening a side glass to stick the head out the window. (I broke the crank handle.)

There was just time to verify that there was no tailgater close behind me before even the back glass went opaque.

It is called a "panic stop."

It then required both feet on the door to get it open, as the "humidity" (and maybe some splash) had penetrated the door mouldings and the door was also frozen - although not securely - shut. (Some of the rubber came off.)

Until the door was open, it was impossible to tell whether I'd cleared the road, although "the sound of gravel" (it did sound like music) indicated I should be clear.

That lesson took all of perhaps 37.3 seconds to learn - and will NOT BE FORGOTTEN. (And hopefully will NOT BE REPEATED.)

I don't think it mattered what kind of glass was in the windshield/windscreen.

The unexpected is always lurking nearby, especially when wheels are turning.

John

Subject: RE: BS: Spark Plug Ceramics Breaking Windows
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 29 Jun 07 - 11:26 PM

"a toughened windscreen shattered, whilst we were going about 65mph. A vivid memory. Instant blindness!"

My dad did lots of gravel road driving in the 1960s, and on roads that were narrow single lane bitumen with loose gravel alongside.

'Hobby Crafters' liked to use the glass fragments in flower displays (around the base) etc, so he often used to bring bags of the stuff home - there were always piles on the side of the road...

I remember that before laminated screens became common - not sure if they are now mandatory under ADRs - there were screens that had a special area in front of the drivers face that stayed clear when teh rest went opaque.

Subject: RE: BS: Spark Plug Ceramics Breaking Windows
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Jun 07 - 07:34 PM

A friend of mine, a car mechanic, witnessed the introduction of a new luxury car. The organisers challenged a retired car thief to get into it. He laid down in front of it and delivered a double-footed kick to the front bumper.
The airbags popped and the car unlocked itself.

I was a back-seat passenger, long ago, when a toughened windscreen shattered, whilst we were going about 65mph. A vivid memory. Instant blindness! The driver and frontseat passenger ducked from the bang, banging their heads together, straightened up, and punched holes through, in perfect unison.
Modern screens are actually double glass, with a tough plastic between them which bonds them together.

I got my background in cars honestly, too.   Honestly.

Subject: RE: BS: Spark Plug Ceramics Breaking Windows
From: Rog Peek
Date: 29 Jun 07 - 05:15 PM

Of course John I never doubted for one minute that your knowledge was acquired by legitemate means. Sounds like you had a very interesting occupation. Am I to assume you have now retired?

My knowledge of the possible criminal use for an automatic centre punch came from teaching metalwork in the early seventies in a difficult school where one had to be aware of which tools were likely to be attractive to light fingered pupils.

One pupil I recall who I knew to have been in trouble with the police for stealing lead from the local town hall roof, ask me one day if he could make a grappling hook. His request was of course refused.

Rog

Subject: RE: BS: Spark Plug Ceramics Breaking Windows
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 29 Jun 07 - 02:40 PM

Rog Peek

There are times when knowledge of physical devices can puzzle one's friends, however my familiarity with progress in auto equipment, and in this case with criminal assaults on them, comes legitimately from membership since 1961 in SAE - a principal "Standards Organization" for automotive (and other transport related) vehicle design and construction.

With nearly 50 years of watching the "corporate criminals" fairly closely, one picks up significant bits of what the other ones are into.

Having children who actually believe the friends who say "I can fix your car for you real cheap" adds a bit of peripheral spice to the learning, since one gets into the details by repairing lots of "repairs."

John

Subject: RE: BS: Spark Plug Ceramics Breaking Windows
From: GUEST,Rog Peek
Date: 29 Jun 07 - 08:49 AM

John, I bow to your superior knowledge on this one. I was going to say "I confess I've never tried it myself." However I suppose the confession would have been more appropriate if I had. I am a bit worried about your extra curricula activities though, you having such an in depth knowledge of the effects of an automatic centre punch on car windows.

Subject: RE: BS: Spark Plug Ceramics Breaking Windows
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 29 Jun 07 - 08:47 AM

Well John, sounds like a large centre punch hit with one of them would be justb then thing then... :-)

Chipping dags off cement with a wide cold chisel with one works great too - easy on the hands.

Subject: RE: BS: Spark Plug Ceramics Breaking Windows
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 29 Jun 07 - 04:05 AM

Foolestroupe -

I've tried them. Locally they call them "dead-blow" hammers. Bill D. would tell you that you get them at "The Yard" in Wichita. $14 - $23 (US) for 18 - 32 oz (used/refurbished) last time I looked.

They work nicely when you have to do a lot of heavy hitting, as they kill the shock that's otherwise transmitted back through the handle and causes pain and suffering in mechanics, but most of them have a rather large face for breaking out auto glass. You'll get the glass out with one, but you'll probably also splatter it all over the place. And with tempered auto glass you'll probably have to hit it several times to clear a very large hole - unless you really scatter it.

They're absolutely perfect for driving tent stakes, except for their habit of going home with someone else everytime I take one camping with me.

A lighter (than the general run of dead-blows) hammer or other device that punches at a more concentrated spot will "fragment" a tempered window so that it can be pushed out quietly, and often once it's cracked lots of the glass will (sometimes) come out in "hunks" about like peeling a hard-boiled egg after you've "rolled" it on the table top to make lots of cracks in it. (Of course, with regional preferences you may not cook your eggs that hard?)

John

Subject: RE: BS: Spark Plug Ceramics Breaking Windows
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 29 Jun 07 - 03:00 AM

JiK

Ever tried one of those 'anti-rebound' hammers?

They have lead (or steel) shot inside, and they appear to hit much 'harder' for their weight. I love them, expensive though they are... :-)

Bit suspicious to be carrying one around on the street though... :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Spark Plug Ceramics Breaking Windows
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 28 Jun 07 - 07:48 PM

Rog Peek -

The spring punch of the kind illustrated at your link doesn't usually screw down to produce a sufficient impact to reliably break through - or break up - a modern tempered glass in a single punch. While one of those can spall a small dimple, and punching repeatedly can run the defect until eventually the window will "relieve the temper" (i.e. shatter), a modern thief probably has better tools.

Extra-heavy versions do exist, but they tend not to work very well for their intended purposes so they're pretty rare and wouldn't fit easily in your pocket.

The 5-oz hammer would be about as easily concealable as one of the sufficiently-heavy-duty spring-punches, and much more reliable.

They did work reasonably well up until auto glazing improvements in perhaps the early 1950s or a little before, according to some accounts. They might work fairly well now on common house windows, I suppose.

Of course, I won't argue if you can claim having used one successfully on a recent model. I'd be interested in a trial result (is that a pun?), but unfortunately don't have an expendable window handy, although I do have 4 or 5 of the punches.

John

Subject: RE: BS: Spark Plug Ceramics Breaking Windows
From: Charley Noble
Date: 28 Jun 07 - 03:10 PM

John Hardly-

I won't forget your joke!

Neither will the elephant!

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Spark Plug Ceramics Breaking Windows
From: Rog Peek
Date: 28 Jun 07 - 02:07 PM

I understood the prefered tool for this task was an automatic centere punch:
http://www.abmtools.com/Punches/Automatic_Centre_Punch.htm

Subject: RE: BS: Spark Plug Ceramics Breaking Windows
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 28 Jun 07 - 03:05 AM

Noting that discussion of criminal methods is to be deprecated, lest it encourage the criminals, the following is all "old stuff" that they all know, although it may be news to the honest people.

Contrary to the notion propogated by movies and TV, breaking an auto glass seldom makes much noise regardless of the tools or method. Modern "tempered" glass, as generally used in side windows often doesn't even fall out of the frame with the inital breaking. The only sound is the single-blow "impact noise" which is about the same as one would get from hitting the nearest picket fence once with a medium sized hammer. Once the glass is broken, it can be pushed out of the frame almost silently by hand.

A common ball-pien hammer works quite satisfactorily, but due to the short handle breaking a side window with a hammer of less than about 5 oz can be difficult. It's no problem (usually) with a 7 to 12 oz hammer. The spark plug, or a large nut, or any other object that can be tucked into the end of a sock or tied to a string, can be swung against the window so that it strikes with fairly high velocity and thus delivers a fair amount of energy concentrated in a small area. It can be, in effect, a 3 oz ball-pien hammer with a 3 foot long handle - that fits in one's pocket.

Persons aware that something was happening would hear a single "bang," "thud," or "ping" when the object hits the window, but not much else. There is NO SOUND OF GLASS BREAKING in the manner of the sound effects in the movies, and nothing like the falling glass heard if someone breaks out a "wash glass" window in a house.

As to the bump key thing, anyone with the requisite knowledge to use one effectively can probably, with only a little more effort and a very slightly reduced probability of success, produce the same result with a properly bent paper clip. The bump key just makes it a little bit quicker, and very slightly more reliable.

Modern thieves generally will prefer to use the professional locksmith's "shaker pick." (Other names are used.) The "pick" has one or more points to raise the pins in the lock as the bumps pass the pins, but is attached to a handle (battery powered) that vibrates it rapidly as it's inserted and withdrawn. Guaranteed to open any common pin-lock in 10 seconds. (almost always)

Many recent model automobiles use much more sophisticated locks that are a lot more resistent to illicit entry. An example is the "double sided key" that some makers advertise as "letting you put the key in either side up." While this is a great convenience(?) in some but not all such locks it's necessary to actuate pins on both sides of the key in opposite directions at the same time to get the lock open. This does make it a lot harder, though not impossible, to "pick." Unfortunately, some "double-sided keys" simply work the same single set of pins with either side of the key - as advertised - and provide no significant improvement in theft resistance. (Hint here - your dealer probably doesn't know which kind (s)he sells.)

Electronic locks on vehicles in a variety of kinds are offered now. Most of them actually are a bit harder to defeat than the older kinds, but there remains a lot of variation in the amount of improvement obtained. A "kill switch" that shuts down the engine shortly after it's started without the proper key is considered a reasonably worthwhile protection against the thief getting far with a vehicle, although a "chop shop" thief may only intend to drive it around the corner before loading on an auto-tow truck.

For the home, there are a variety of "super-security" locks, and some of them are incredibly difficult to pick. An older style "bumper jack" crosswise in the doorway to spread the frame far enough to clear the deadbolt still works on almost any of them, and is virtually silent - unless a board breaks.

End point:

Be afraid, but it won't do a lot of good to be really paranoid.

John

Subject: RE: BS: Spark Plug Ceramics Breaking Windows
From: GUEST,petr
Date: 27 Jun 07 - 08:14 PM

I guess that sparkplug thing has been around for a while.
I heard that 15years ago..about the ceramics of the sparkplug being the right hardness .. Explains the sparkplug bits on the sidewalks.

Subject: RE: BS: Spark Plug Ceramics Breaking Windows
From: Deckman
Date: 27 Jun 07 - 07:45 PM

I don't want to explain the technique of breaking and entering through the use of a bump key. As a lifetime carpenter, I've known of them for many years. The standard joke in my trade is; YOU CAN NEVER KEEP A KARPENTER OUT OF HOUSE!

Suffice it to say that a "bump key" is just a lockset blank that will fit into most any key way of a lock of that brand. There are some technical challenges, which is why they are sold in sets.

My own personel set of bump keys numbers over 100. I still use them occasionally when desparate customers call me because they locked themselves out of their house ... again!

I NEVER carry them in my truck unless I have the address and phone number of the customer I'm heading for. Having a set of these is a VERY quick trip to jail, if a cop sees them. CHEERS, Bob(deckman)Nelson

Subject: RE: BS: Spark Plug Ceramics Breaking Windows
From: John Hardly
Date: 27 Jun 07 - 06:30 PM

big animal story reminds me...

A young man was on holiday in Kenya after graduating from
college. While he was walking through the bush, he came across a young bull elephant standing with one leg raised in the air.

The elephant seemed distressed so the man approached it very
carefully. He got down on one knee and inspected the elephant's foot. There was a large thorn deeply embedded in the bottom of the foot. As carefully and as gently as he could he worked the thorn out with his hunting knife, after which the elephant gingerly put down its foot. The elephant turned to face the man and with a rather stern look on its face, stared at him.

For a good ten minutes the man stood frozen thinking of nothing else but being trampled. Eventually the elephant trumpeted loudly, turned and walked away. The man never forgot that elephant or the events of that day.

Twenty years later the man was walking through the zoo with his teenaged son. As they approached the elephant enclosure, one of the creatures turned and walked over to where they were standing at the rail. The large bull elephant stared at him and lifted it's front foot off the ground, then put it down. The elephant did that several times, all the while staring at the man. The man couldn't help wondering if this was the same elephant. After a while it trumpeted loudly; then it continued to stare at him.

The man summoned up his courage, climbed over the railing and made his way into the enclosure. He walked right up to the elephant and stared back in wonder. Suddenly the elephant trumpeted again, wrapped its trunk around one of the man's legs and swung him wildly back and forth along the railing, killing him.

Probably wasn't the same elephant.

Subject: RE: BS: Spark Plug Ceramics Breaking Windows
From: Greg B
Date: 27 Jun 07 - 06:25 PM

What's the issue with syringes? We have horses so we have
syringes. You can't wait for the vet on a colic, you have
to inject them with the stuff to relax their gut ASAP. You
also need to do it from time to time when the farrier or
horse-dentist (you don't want to know about this one) visit.

If you're one of the 1-in-10 with diabetes, you have syringes
and needles (which is where the fishermen get them). But
you can buy the OTC (over the counter) at serious farm supply
outlets. I have to laugh when I see they're supposedly controlled
items.

The only time a cop can hassle you for syringes is when they
find something worthy of injection.

Then again, I also occasionally carry around 'horsey downer' so
maybe I'm a sitting duck. Though I can't imagine how little of
this stuff that puts a 1000# animal to sleep wouldn't just kill
a human would be.

Subject: RE: BS: Spark Plug Ceramics Breaking Windows
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 27 Jun 07 - 02:41 PM

For currently common plugs, the bass should like about 0.040."

In my area, quite a few fishermen also carry a hypodermic syringe. Since all our local waters are mud/silt bottoms a worm will burrow into the mud and be inaccessible to the fish. A bubble of air in the loose end makes the worm's tail float so it can't hide. Try explaining that "paraphenalia" to the cop who stops you on the way home. (It helps to have a bucket of worms handy. Assuring that the syringe isn't "clean" comes naturally.)

John

Subject: RE: BS: Spark Plug Ceramics Breaking Windows
From: jeffp
Date: 27 Jun 07 - 02:38 PM

Largemouth or smallmouth?

Subject: RE: BS: Spark Plug Ceramics Breaking Windows
From: John Hardly
Date: 27 Jun 07 - 02:00 PM

"Incidentally, cash-strapped saltwater fishermen have been using old spark plugs for fishing weights for years. They're particularly popular when fishing in areas with a lot of rocks or snags that result in loss of hooks and sinkers. Why sacrifice expensive lead sinkers when used spark plugs are free for the asking?"

Can you recommend the proper gap setting for bass?

Subject: RE: BS: Spark Plug Ceramics Breaking Windows
From: katlaughing
Date: 27 Jun 07 - 01:58 PM

Thanks, BWL!

Subject: RE: BS: Spark Plug Ceramics Breaking Windows
From: Rog Peek
Date: 27 Jun 07 - 12:24 PM

No-one has ever tried to steel my 8-track from the car.

Subject: RE: BS: Spark Plug Ceramics Breaking Windows
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 27 Jun 07 - 11:47 AM

From what I gather, bump keys are keys which perform the same basic function as lock picks. They're cut with a "generic" pattern of nodes and notches and the user "bumps" them to make them work in individual locks. I can't imagine any legitimate use for them. The website probably hides behind a "they're for the locksmith trade" rationale, but any locksmith could make the same thing for his own use in less than a minute for next to nothing.

Subject: RE: BS: Spark Plug Ceramics Breaking Windows
From: Bert
Date: 27 Jun 07 - 11:23 AM

shatters into tiny pieces, would they be called 'vision chips'?

Subject: RE: BS: Spark Plug Ceramics Breaking Windows
From: katlaughing
Date: 27 Jun 07 - 10:24 AM

I missed the previous thread, too. What are bump keys?

Subject: RE: BS: Spark Plug Ceramics Breaking Windows
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 27 Jun 07 - 08:36 AM

Spark plugs are used to break windows because they're of an appropriate size and weight, they're easy to tie securely to a length of string, and they're easily obtained at no cost from the trash bins of repair shops. Other things like saltwater fishing sinkers or large fastening nuts would probably work just as well, but they're not as common.

Incidentally, cash-strapped saltwater fishermen have been using old spark plugs for fishing weights for years. They're particularly popular when fishing in areas with a lot of rocks or snags that result in loss of hooks and sinkers. Why sacrifice expensive lead sinkers when used spark plugs are free for the asking?

Subject: RE: BS: Spark Plug Ceramics Breaking Windows
From: Sorcha
Date: 27 Jun 07 - 07:53 AM

Mr (police officer) has a special little punch tool that will break a window without shattering it...saftey for the supposed person he needs to rescue from the car. Punches a nifty small hole right beside the door lock. Assuming that the locks aren't electric only.

Subject: RE: BS: Spark Plug Ceramics Breaking Windows
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 27 Jun 07 - 07:02 AM

Bump keys were mentioned in a previous recent thread.

Subject: RE: BS: Spark Plug Ceramics Breaking Windows
From: kendall
Date: 27 Jun 07 - 06:45 AM

Was your wallet in plain sight?

Subject: RE: BS: Spark Plug Ceramics Breaking Windows
From: Folkiedave
Date: 27 Jun 07 - 06:28 AM

Errr......what is a bump key?

Subject: RE: BS: Spark Plug Ceramics Breaking Windows
From: gnu
Date: 27 Jun 07 - 06:23 AM

For regular glass, newspaper and molasses will reduce the noise to a mnimum. And, it's much safer.

Subject: RE: BS: Spark Plug Ceramics Breaking Windows
From: Keef
Date: 27 Jun 07 - 03:55 AM

That's nothing...what about bump keys

Scary stuff

Subject: RE: BS: Spark Plug Ceramics Breaking Windows
From: Gurney
Date: 27 Jun 07 - 01:41 AM

I'd be surprised if there was anything special about the ceramic of a plug making the breaking of glass quiet. A small heavy object, like a sparkplug, on a piece of string, would make a suitable tool to shatter the door glass or quarter glass of a car, and it would be a considerable weapon, too.

The side glass on a car is usually toughened glass, sometimes called tempered glass, which shatters into tiny pieces, and relatively quietly, too. It just goes 'POP' and turns into crystals. Not a breaking glass noise at all.

Windscreens/windshields are laminated glass. A different matter entirely.

Subject: RE: BS: Spark Plug Ceramics Breaking Windows
From: katlaughing
Date: 27 Jun 07 - 12:07 AM

I found quite a bit on google using "breaking car windows with spaark plugs." There's even a video on youtube and the city of Pleasonton, California added them to some legislation as burglary tools: click.

Sorry it happened to you, though, Amergin.

Subject: BS: Spark Plug Ceramics Breaking Windows
From: Amergin
Date: 27 Jun 07 - 12:02 AM

I have had one hell of a day. I go out to my car this morning and found my car was broken into. The passenger side was busted in. The bastard stole my mp3 player and apparently I had my wallet in there as well...and so I spent all day on the phone, getting everything sorted out. A cop came out and found pieces of ceramic chipped off a spark plug amongst the glass. He told me the cretins use them to shatter car windows, and that it is almost silent. My question is, how does this work? I have looked on the net and got no clear answers, so I am hoping some one here knows. How can some shit head junkie break windows without anyone hearing it?