BS: Elder Abuse Experience (USA)?

Subject: RE: BS: Elder Abuse Experience (USA)?
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 11 Sep 07 - 06:19 PM

As a philosophical answer, I would say where there is abuse in the home of relatives, and a satisfactory if not perfect facility, there is no question whatsoever. And as we age we must be prepared not to burden others if our care is too much for them. I am quite glad to pay whatever taxes it takes for people to have decent at least care and to also insure that I do not have to take on the care of someone it would be too hard either physically or psychologically (as would have been my difficult mother) to do...mg

Subject: RE: BS: Elder Abuse Experience (USA)?
From: wysiwyg
Date: 11 Sep 07 - 09:19 AM

Wouldn't everyone be better off if elder was in a nursing home or assisted living?

Although this is definitely NOT a thread posing that question, it is THE question most adult children and aging parents must eventually consider-- and the hardest one for either the parent or the adult children to think about in a logical, detached way. It's also an intensely personal journey for each and every family, and neither one that Mudcat can hope to address accurately nor one that's any of our business.

As a philosphical proposition, such a question might do well in a thread of its own.

~Susan

Subject: RE: BS: Elder Abuse Experience (USA)?
From: Bee
Date: 11 Sep 07 - 08:11 AM

mg, even in Canada, elder care can be extremely expensive. Unless the senior is destitute, the care facility will want scads of money. Just a few years ago our province finally made it law that the care facilities could not insist on a senior selling their house to pay the bill. There are provincial homecare options which aren't too bad, financially, but they are still in short supply, with workers stretched to cover large numbers of clients, and if the senior is living in a home with relatives, very little respite care is provided.

If the senior in question is in an American state with little subsidized care, the relatives may not want to risk losing any inheritance to paying for a nursing home or home care.

Subject: RE: BS: Elder Abuse Experience (USA)?
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 10 Sep 07 - 11:32 PM

Wouldn't everyone be better off if elder was in a nursing home or assisted living? if there is no one to care for him but neglectful or abusive relatives, why not? I plan to live in one and would even if I had children etc. And we should never assume that the elder has not been abusive to the adult children when they were young. Far far too often, although presumably not in this case. mg

Subject: RE: BS: Elder Abuse Experience (USA)?
From: wysiwyg
Date: 10 Sep 07 - 04:30 PM

Corrected post, sorry.

===

Update paraphrased from my relative:

The elder has some degree of dementia-- sometimes he is there, sometimes not. (Sometimes he's actually faking not being there). He is more there than not, but is not capable of having a cell phone to call for help.

The blood relative has some kind of meals on wheels already going. Problem is the elder can't be left alone-- he will decide to leave the building and then not know where the hell he is.

My relative has briefly told the blood relative about the cops coming, and says the blood rel. did not have much to say.   

My relative also has been looking into area agencies for home health care/senior day care. A talk with an agency is planned on how to offer support and assistance to the blood relative-- so the plan for now is go ahead and report any newly-heard incidents anonymously and continue to offer supportive listening and referrals to the blood relative. If there is a new report, my relative is prepared now with all the information that will be requested.

It seems significant that there has been at least the one cop visit, and it may be that the local elder abuse case manager is (or soon will be) aware of the details of that incident.

Knowing the cycle of alcoholism as I do, I would anticipate that the live-in partner will keep things quiet for the near future, but that it will all deteriorate before TOO long as his drinking rises and falls.

So-- we'll see....

~Susan

Subject: RE: BS: Elder Abuse Experience (USA)?
From: wysiwyg
Date: 10 Sep 07 - 04:20 PM

Update paraphrased from my relative:

The elder has some degree of dementia-- sometimes he is there, sometimes not. (Sometimes he's actually faking not being there). He is more there than not, but is not capable of having a cell phone to call for help.

The blood relative has some kind of meals on wheels already going. Problem is the elder can't be left alone-- he will decide to leave the building and then not know where the hell he is.

My relative has brielfy told the blood relative about the cops coming, and sys the blood rel. did not have much to say.   

Mt relative also has been looking into area agencies for home health care/senior day care. A talk with an agency is planned on how to offer support and assistance to the blood relative-- so the plan for now is go ahead and report any newly-heard incidents anonymously and continue to offer supportive listening and referrals to the blood relative. If there is a new report, my relative is prepared now with all the information that will be requested.

It seems significant that there has been at least the one cop visit, and it may be that the local elder abuse case manager is (or soon will be) aware of the details of that incident.

Knowing the cycle of alcoholism as I do, I would anticipate that the live-in partner will keep things quiet for the near future, but that it will all deteriorate before TOO long as his drinking rises and falls.

So-- we'll see....

~Susan

Subject: RE: BS: Elder Abuse Experience (USA)?
From: wysiwyg
Date: 08 Sep 07 - 09:36 AM

corrected post:

I have advised my relative of the above. I also opined that one additional option is to give the elder a card with his/her cell phone on it. If he IS "compos mentis," s/he can let him know he can call for help any time. If he is savvy he may be able to learn how to disengage when the mooch is in the buildup phase of a verbal attack, retreat to a safer place, and call.

At that time, my relative can call the relevant agency for help so that THEY will catch at least the verbal abuse in action. In effect, let the abuser hang HIMSELF. Just imagine the prospect of the mooch, all wound up, trying to drunkenly explain to the cops what an asshole the elder is. :~) Then he'd be not only abusing (misdemeanor or felony), he'd be drunk and disorderly, with either a blood alcohol level or a field sobriety test ON RECORD. If they get enough calls like that, THEY will establish the mooch's pattern. Perhaps the elder's blood relative will get tired of bailing his ass out of jail.

~Susan

Subject: RE: BS: Elder Abuse Experience (USA)?
From: wysiwyg
Date: 08 Sep 07 - 09:33 AM

I have advise my relative of the above. I also opined that one option is to give the elder a card with his/her cell phone on it. If he IS "compos mentis," s/he can let him know he can call for help any time. If he is savvy he may be able to learn how to disengage when the mooch is in the buildup phase of a verbal attack, retreat to a safer place, and call.

At that time, my relative can call the relevant agency for help so that THEY will catch the abuse in action. In effect, let the abuser hang HIMSELF. Just imagine the prospect of the mooch, all wound up, trying to drunkenly explain to the cops what an asshole the elder is. :~) Then he'd be not only abusing (misdemeanor or felony), he'd be drunk and disorderly, with either a blood alcohol level or a field sobriety test ON RECORD. If they get enough calls like that, THEY will establish the mooch's pattern. Perhaps the elder's blood relative will get tired of bailing his ass out of jail.

~Susan

Subject: RE: BS: Elder Abuse Experience (USA)?
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 07 Sep 07 - 11:54 PM

When kindred kind
Abandon Elders

The fault is not in the nursing/hospice/medical facility.

It is in the wicked relatives.

Sincerely,
Gargoyle

No problem reading to mom thrice a day....no problem in whiping dad's ass.

Parents took care of me when I was a child.....the "circle of life" requires I take care of them before jackles feed on their bounty.

Subject: RE: BS: Elder Abuse Experience (USA)?
From: wysiwyg
Date: 07 Sep 07 - 10:29 AM

Thanks, Janie and dianavan. I will forward that on to my relative, word for word.

Janie, thanks especially for the cogent restatement of the situation and for the remarks about the difference it should make to be anonymous vs. strongly confidential.

Dianavan, thaks for your remarks about church contact. I don't know how it applies in this long-distance situation (yet), but I appreciate the encouragement for our own efforts here. What you describe is one of the reasons my husband's minstry here has been such a success, and my own visiting with the elderly in various volunteer capacities also has been noted. We don't do it to get noticed-- we do it because the people here live forever and get more and more lovable over time and we just love 'em-- but it does have a large role in our credibility for everything else.

~Susan

Subject: RE: BS: Elder Abuse Experience (USA)?
From: GUEST,dianavan
Date: 07 Sep 07 - 01:56 AM

I have recently experience this problem. I think the operative phrase (thanks, Janie) is , "whether or not they believe the individual suffers from cognitive impairments, such as dementia."

In other words, if the elderly is of sound mind, there is little that can be done by a third party. It is the elder that must name the abuse and the abuser and in many cases they will not do that for fear of being sent to a home or being abandoned. It is very difficult for the elderly to tell a social worker that they are being abused, especially by a family member. Although the threat of abandonment is definitely abuse, to the elderly it is a very real possibility.

If, however, guardianship has been established, the power rests with the guardian and, once again, the abusive guardian is often a skilled manipulator. If the guardian is an alcoholic, drug abuser or chronic gambler it is quite likely they are robbing the elder as well. In some States, this is considered a felony offense.

Like most laws, this law only works if it is enforceable. Unless there is obvious physical abuse and unless there are alternatives to the present living situation, its just another sad situation. The biggest problem is that the elderly often have no alternative or at least they think they have none. By the time someone is able to step in, they are so frightened and confused, they will keep the abusive care giver rather than deal an unknown situation.

Believe me, I know about this problem and you have no idea how sad it is to be a family member of an elder who is being mistreated and robbed by a "mooch". I tried to get through to the 'Elder Abuse Hotline' with absolutely no luck. I always got the busy signal. When I returned to Canada, I hired a lawyer. The lawyer was able to have the situation investigated. It was anonymous. Unfortunately, there was little they could do other than put a scare into the abuser, take a look at the financial records, advise the elder of her rights and make a few suggestions. It cost a couple of hundred dollars but it was worth the peace of mind.

The situation has improved - the elder has been empowered and knows that someone is concerned about her best interests (even if she doesn't know who it is). Its best to stay anonymous, especially when it involves family.

I hope this helps and I hope that others are paying attention to the living conditions of elders in the neighborhood. It doesn't take much time to drop in once in awhile to make sure their needs are being met and that they are safe. Some day you may need the same consideration. Offer to pick up some groceries or drive them to the dr. Believe it or not, a trip to the beauty salon or the barber can make a very big difference in their lives. Pamper them with a manicure or a pedicure. Do whatever you can to make their lonely lives a little brighter.

Susan - When my grandmother was no longer able to attend church, she really looked forward to visits from the minister. It was the highlight of her week. When he was replaced by a new minister, who didn't have time for home visits, it was very hard on her. She complained bitterly and felt that the congregation had really let her down. Apart from her family, the minister was her only social contact. She would prepare for his visit days in advance. She declined rapidly when she lost touch with her church.

Keep up the good work.

Subject: RE: BS: Elder Abuse Experience (USA)?
From: Janie
Date: 07 Sep 07 - 12:26 AM

This is generally how it works. The procedures are pretty similar through out the States. The relative will call the Dept. of Social Services and tell the person answering the phone they need to report suspected abuse of an elderly person. They will be tranferred to(or will leave a message for) an Adult Protective Services intake worker. The intake worker will want as much and as specific information as possible. The name of the elderly person, the name of the alleged abuser, the specific nature of the reporter's concerns and as many details and specific examples and incidents as is possible. Although your relative can make an anonymous complaint, the complaint will carry much more weight (and will be much easier to successfully investigate) if s/he will provide contact information. To the best of my knowledge, the name of the reporter is confidential in all 50 States, but the reporter may want to emphasize that they do not want their name revealed as the originator of the complaint if concerned it will make their own life much more difficult if the neighbors figure out where the info. came from. The intake worker will also ask for the names of others who may have knowledge of the abusive behaviors. It will be helpful if the reporter is prepared to share any knowledge or impressions they may have regarding the elderly person's physical frailty and whether or not they believe the individual suffers from cognitive impairments, such as dementia. Do they know or suspect that the elderly person, the care giver, and/or the blood relative have a hx. of mental illness or currently active substance abuse? Your relative should be prepared to share both what they know and what they suspect or think, and to distinguish clearly between the two. If the relative otherwise has no ax to grind with anyone in the neighboring household, they should make that very clear.

My understanding from your earlier posts is the elderly individual lives with a blood relative and the relative's partner. The partner is the primary caregiver during the day and is the alleged abuser. The blood relative is apparently unaware of at least some of what occurs during the day and there is some indication that the partner takes pains to conceal some of their actions. If this is the case, this should be made explicit to the intake worker.

Remind your relative that s/he is not filing a criminal complaint, and the alleged abuser is not likely to be approached from that standpoint. Assuming a reasonably competent and adequately trained and supervised Adult Services Unit, they will investigate the situation with an eye to the needs of the family unit, will be very aware of the stresses that can be involved with caring for a physically or mentally incapacitated elder, and will take a family systems approach to determining what is needed to protect the elder, including looking at what services may be needed to support the care-giver and family. The Adult Services worker will likely do a thorough needs assessment, and can intervene to provide support, services or placement, even if the legal thresh-hold for a determination of abuse is not met.

It may also take numerous or repeated complaints before action is taken.

As Beer said above, the relative should be encouraged to report the situation. That is what they have the power and the moral obligation to do. They are not responsible for the outcome of the complaint.

Janie

Subject: RE: BS: Elder Abuse Experience (USA)?
From: wysiwyg
Date: 06 Sep 07 - 09:51 PM

Thanks, Bee.

~S~

Subject: RE: BS: Elder Abuse Experience (USA)?
From: Bee
Date: 06 Sep 07 - 09:46 PM

I can only give Canadian information - Nova Scotia, anyway. Here, if you, a private citizen, suspect abuse of anyone, child, spouse, senior, you are obligated to report it, at which point social services investigate. In this case, where police have apparently been on site once, investigation would be very thorough. The person who reported would not be identified.

Subject: RE: BS: Elder Abuse Experience (USA)?
From: wysiwyg
Date: 06 Sep 07 - 09:27 PM

S/he has not yet filed, and I was just hoping anyone who HAD filed could share some perspective I could pass along. In the meantime of course I have been helping to locate and refer the relative to the relevant local resources. The relative seems pretty clear (for now) on the several boundary issues and the reporting duty at hand.

Thanks, all.

I almost wish I AM the relative, because as a pastor's wife embedded in this rural community I know the general social services territory HERE pretty well. Been's as this is in another state, and a municipality with many agencies and layers to sort through, it's not so "simple."

[sitting on a lot of feelings] The community values HERE are so different-- so appreciative of its elders in particular-- damn, it's so hard to translate that out to folks in other areas (such as my relative). HERE-- the intervention would be a done deal, with as much help for the "abuser" as for the abused, woven right into the fabric of community relationships and nonversations. THERE-- it's just going to be different. It's frustrating not to know that territory as well as I know ours, here, and to know that someone's old dearie isn't being seen as the vital and treasured old soul they must surely be.

~S~

Subject: RE: BS: Elder Abuse Experience (USA)?
From: Janie
Date: 06 Sep 07 - 09:06 PM

Susan, I take it your relative had a less than positive experience when she filed her complaint?

Subject: RE: BS: Elder Abuse Experience (USA)?
From: Sorcha
Date: 06 Sep 07 - 08:55 PM

Not much more I can add. All my experiences with it were as a hearsay friend, and I suggested that Family/Social services be called.

Subject: RE: BS: Elder Abuse Experience (USA)?
From: Beer
Date: 06 Sep 07 - 08:47 PM

That's a situation that is never easy. Jane is right though. Inform Social Services. You may feel that you are passing the buck but your not. You are not responsible for the behavior of others but you are responsible "morally" or "professionally" to report or point it out to the appropriate person or persons. I don't know in your State, but leaving the scene or not helping in a scene of an accident you can be help accountable. But I get a feeling Susan that you know all this as you are a smart lady from threads I've read of yours. However exploring different point of views hopefully will give you something that will help.
All the very best.
Beer (adrien)

Subject: RE: BS: Elder Abuse Experience (USA)?
From: Janie
Date: 06 Sep 07 - 08:11 PM

Oops. Meant to say I have not had occasion....

Janie

Subject: RE: BS: Elder Abuse Experience (USA)?
From: wysiwyg
Date: 06 Sep 07 - 07:17 PM

Yeah, that's what I think too. Maybe Mudcat is full of people who have been lucky enough not to have had to deal with this up close and personal.

~Susan

Subject: RE: BS: Elder Abuse Experience (USA)?
From: Janie
Date: 06 Sep 07 - 07:11 PM

Susan, I have filed several complaints over the years as a professional - I am required by law to report suspected abuse or neglect of children, seriously handicapped individuals, and the elderly. I have occasion to report as a concerned private citizen, however. I am not at all sure my own experience would be reflective of that of a concerned neighbor or family member.

Janie

Subject: RE: BS: Elder Abuse Experience (USA)?
From: wysiwyg
Date: 06 Sep 07 - 05:39 PM

Relative has been put in touch with local elder abuse agency. I'd still like to hear of anyone's experience with reporting/dealing with this in the US.

~S~

Subject: RE: BS: Elder Abuse Experience (USA)?
From: Janie
Date: 06 Sep 07 - 06:27 AM

The local Social Services dept. will have an Adult Protective Services Unit to whom it should be reported. Like child neglect and abuse, it can be hard to document. The quality and professionalism of DSS staff may vary, or, if they are understaffed and overwhelmed, they may not follow up as carefully as is warranted.

It would be going above and beyond the call of duty and perhaps blow your relative's anonymity as the complaintent,, but if your relative has the opportunity to document anything (taping the verbal abuse, photographs of the trashed possessions), that would be helpful evidence of the complaint, and depending on the DSS unit, either support them or hold their feet to the fire.

Janie

Subject: RE: BS: Elder Abuse Experience (USA)?
From: Morticia
Date: 06 Sep 07 - 03:56 AM

In England we now have VAUs (Vulnerable Adult Units) which are made up of specially trained police officers. They work in conjunction with people like me ( Joint Trained Investigators) from Social Services and we take all reported cases very seriously indeed with a very clear and timely set of procedures designed first to protect and then to prosecute, if appropriate.

I know that doesn't help you, Susan, but I would be really interested to hear how it works in the States.

Subject: RE: BS: Elder Abuse Experience (USA)?
From: katlaughing
Date: 05 Sep 07 - 11:01 PM

This looks like a good place to get some general answers, Susan:

National center on Elder Abuse.

Subject: RE: BS: Elder Abuse Experience (USA)?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 05 Sep 07 - 07:22 PM

I don't know how it works in the States, but over here the better people to contact might be Social Services, who'd then liaise with the police.

Subject: RE: BS: Elder Abuse Experience (USA)?
From: wysiwyg
Date: 05 Sep 07 - 07:10 PM

PS, PM replies gladly accepted if you'd rather not post here.

~S~

Subject: BS: Elder Abuse Experience (USA)?
From: wysiwyg
Date: 05 Sep 07 - 07:09 PM

Sigh.....

A family member in another city reports overhearing ongoing elder abuse in a nearby dwelling. There are complicated tenant issues involved that I will not go into..... Also involved are alcohol and drugs.

The situation involves daytime home-care by a live-in common-law "spouse" of the working common-law "spouse's" aged and infirm parent.

As far as the nature of the abuse-- what is known so far: There certainly has been prolonged verbal abuse. The aged parent's belongings have been trashed from time to time, and then cleaned up before the parent's adult child got home from work. Whether physical abuse has occurred (yet) is not yet clear. It seems to be happening more often and more loudly-- all the usual earmarks of escalation toward physical abuse.


The adult child of this abused elder is also in a fairly advanced state of denial about the insufficiency and abusive nature of the caregiving, the motives of the "self-employed" live-in (AKA moocher), and the danger to the parent ("Our whole family are screamers so this is no big deal.") However, city street workers recently heard a daytime meltdown severe enough to result in the cops coming for a little look-see. Since the adult child was out of town at the time s/he probably knows nothing about THAT.


My family member is planning to advise this friend that it would be a good idea to hear what the cops have to say about it before leaving the parent in the live-in's care any further, and to call 911 next time s/he overhears it breaking out again.


So what I want to know is-- What experience (if any) have any of you had with reporting and results in your state? How "bad" did the abuse have to be before anything was done about it? (Other than nursing homes, etc.)

Thanks,

~Susan