BS: Is there life on Mars?

Subject: RE: BS: Is there life on Mars?
From: GUEST,Mars Life, proven
Date: 18 Jun 04 - 11:19 AM

Click, to see picture of the first Martian rovers met:
First Martian

ES
For more, click
Welcome to Mars!

Subject: RE: BS: Is there life on Mars?
From: Peace
Date: 11 Jan 04 - 08:54 PM

Long as it ain't plugged in.

Subject: RE: BS: Is there life on Mars?
From: Charley Noble
Date: 11 Jan 04 - 08:46 PM

Hey, doesn't anyone pay any attention to what other people are posting? Tweed's link is a revelation! Of course, poor Beagle-2 is desparate to find a tree about now or a fire hyrant, but an electric guitar half-buried in the sand should do nicely.

Cheerily,
Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Is there life on Mars?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 11 Jan 04 - 08:40 PM

... lucky we had plenty of rum!

Subject: RE: BS: Is there life on Mars?
From: Peace
Date: 11 Jan 04 - 08:13 PM

And what's wrong with having pickpockets as ancestors? They did it the hard way: without income tax!

Subject: RE: BS: Is there life on Mars?
From: GUEST,WorstnightmareBeingchosenformarsmission
Date: 11 Jan 04 - 07:58 PM

When humans colonise Mars, I shall imagine it will be like Australia, full of fuck all! Still, unless the Americans turn it into a penal colony, the gene pool should be a slight improvement. Better to have scientists as your ancestors than pickpockets.

Subject: RE: BS: Is there life on Mars?
From: Jilly
Date: 11 Jan 04 - 06:09 PM

brucie; I have always wanted to go to Mars mind if I tag along with you.?

Subject: RE: BS: Is there life on Mars?
From: Tweed
Date: 10 Jan 04 - 08:53 AM

That's exactly correct Charlie and I now have proof that the poor pup is indeed active and snapping fantastic shots of the Martian landscape. My moles in Bristol have sent in (to TweedTowers Central) one of the first photos from the much maligned Beagle.

Primitive Lifeforms Found on Mars(photo)

Yerz,
Tweed

Subject: RE: BS: Is there life on Mars?
From: Charley Noble
Date: 10 Jan 04 - 08:07 AM

Evidently the "super-sensitive scan by Mars Express" turned up nothing. Don't look good for Beagle-2, although I still think it's strayed off-grid and is just digging a hole somewhere.

Cheerily,
Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Is there life on Mars?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 09 Jan 04 - 05:54 PM

... same as with Mudcat ... :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Is there life on Mars?
From: Mr Red
Date: 09 Jan 04 - 03:37 PM

You have to be a subscriber to get to everything.

Subject: RE: BS: Is there life on Mars?
From: Steve Parkes
Date: 09 Jan 04 - 08:22 AM

Arnie: more on that weight limit ... in this week's New Scientist, the Beagle team said if they could have had another 5kg (11lbs to you & me) they could have fitted a radio beacon or tracing device, but there wasn't any to spare above their 62kg limit (137lb, ot just under 11st). The NASA lander weighed around 800kg (1700lb), by comparison.

We're waiting to hear the results of yesterdays "super-sensitive" scan by Mars Express. See here for latest news.

(The New Scientist article isn't on their website, so I can't link to that.)

Steve

Subject: RE: BS: Is there life on Mars?
From: Peace
Date: 08 Jan 04 - 08:19 PM

Ya know, I had a vacation package book there with a lovely woman. She ditched me, so now I have to go alone. There damned well BETter be life on Mars, or I'm gonna cancel the trip.

Subject: RE: BS: Is there life on Mars?
From: Charley Noble
Date: 08 Jan 04 - 07:56 PM

Ironic indeed, Robin!

I do hope that Spirit Rover finally gets off its butt and begins to roll. We're just not trained to wait patiently for everything to line up properly before ACTION. I mean, why don't they just shift 'er into gear and tear off toward the nearest point of interest? VRRROOOM!

Cheerily,
Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Is there life on Mars?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 08 Jan 04 - 05:11 PM

Charley, seriously, if you drive from Brisbane to Adelaide down the "Inland Route" through Broken Hill, you travel for tens of hours thru that sort of country, some of it with occassionally little bits of green stuff that euphemistically is called "plant life". There are signs saying that this is "semi-arid dessert".

The country that "Mad Max" was shot in - come to think of it - the sort of place to shoot anybody! And that country is considered "fertile" compared with placed like Simpon's Desert. Australia is full of places that make "Death Valley" look like a picnic spot! Over 50% of it is worse than the country around Broken Hill.

One of our scientists was heard on ABC Radio National saying it's ironic that we spend so much money and time sending probes to a place that is looking more and more like Simpson's desert.

And now I'm gonna think twice about eating Rock Salt....

Robin

Subject: RE: BS: Is there life on Mars?
From: Charley Noble
Date: 08 Jan 04 - 01:53 PM

Or vegemite or trilobites for that matter.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Is there life on Mars?
From: Peace
Date: 08 Jan 04 - 10:53 AM

Charley, you have just explained marmite.

Subject: RE: BS: Is there life on Mars?
From: Charley Noble
Date: 08 Jan 04 - 09:51 AM

There was an intriguing report last night on the news that some scientists had extracted a salt water drop out of a salt crystal laid down some 200 million years ago. When they warmed it up to room temperature and examined it under magnification it was teeming with primative life forms.

They were suggesting that salt samples from Mars might contain their own life forms, not just fossils. Of course, if we ever revive such creatures they'll invariably escape the lab, expand in size and take over the Earth.

Cheerily,
Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Is there life on Mars?
From: Peace
Date: 07 Jan 04 - 02:33 PM

SRS: THat was BAD! But, good though. lol

Subject: RE: BS: Is there life on Mars?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 07 Jan 04 - 10:31 AM

Sorcha, scientists at NASA have taken a lichen to your good wishes!

Subject: RE: BS: Is there life on Mars?
From: Rapparee
Date: 07 Jan 04 - 08:18 AM

Are we then looking for life in Australia?

Seriously, the Martians are there (they invaded Earth back in August, when Mars was so close, but we fought them off). They analyze our probes and crash or buggerup those which would discover them, and let the others land. I mean, look at the pictures -- YOU wouldn't live there and neither do the Martians. Their rationale is that we'll think we have a high failure rate on a planet with a surface that looks like an Australian pizza and we'll leave them alone.

And why, you ask, are they doing this? Simple -- they have their listening and viewing posts on Earth and they get such laughs and giggles out of us they don't want the show disturbed.

Subject: RE: BS: Is there life on Mars?
From: Charley Noble
Date: 07 Jan 04 - 07:57 AM

Robin-

Really? So far I've seen no sign of the usual Oz BBQ set-up.

Cheerily,
Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Is there life on Mars?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 07 Jan 04 - 07:48 AM

Funny, but the NASA photos of Mars look just like millions of acres of Outback Australia.... over 50% of Australia is classified as that kind of dessert.

Robin

Subject: RE: BS: Is there life on Mars?
From: Sorcha
Date: 07 Jan 04 - 12:12 AM

OH, and is this Spirit thingie suppsosed to come back to Earth?

Subject: RE: BS: Is there life on Mars?
From: Sorcha
Date: 07 Jan 04 - 12:08 AM

I for one really do hope there is some kind of life on Mars, even if it is lichen or fungus......

Subject: RE: BS: Is there life on Mars?
From: Bobert
Date: 06 Jan 04 - 11:56 PM

Well, gol danged!!!...

Ain't this somethin'?....

They say they got a danged golf cart up there on Mars? Hmmmmm? Wonder if Gary Player or Arnolf Palmer got summer homes on Mars???

Ya know what? No? Well, I'll tell ya what since yer seems so interested. My cousin, Rufus, was over here tonight with Rether Mayz and he told me the real deal. It ain't Mars you folks is lookin' at. It's a close up of a sausage pizza from Giovanti's Pizza. Yep, now Rufus ain't no dummy since he was one of the first folks to point out that the faked moon landin' back 'round '69 waz filmed in New Mexico so, yeah, me and the Wes Ginny slide rule has examined the photos and we think it's pizza, too...

Now, I hate to burst nobody's bubble but pizza ain't bad! Really! You ever had it wid onions and possum? Didn't think so. See what I mean???

Bud if you wanta keep thinkin' that a pizza is Mars, knock yerselves out....

Me and Rufus knowz better...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Is there life on Mars?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 06 Jan 04 - 11:56 PM

It would have been fantastic to have feed from both vessels now, and not just the one. Another U.S. ship is due there soon, but I don't remember when. IT is to land in a different type of terrain. NOVA did a show tonight about the Mars operation. This program will probably air again here during the week and on the weekend.

Here is the NASA page with the images. They had three sizes earlier today, but now there are two. One of them was pretty large, about 40meg. They left a 1 meg and 3.5 meg--LOADS VERY SLOW ON A PHONE MODEM image there still.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Is there life on Mars?
From: Charley Noble
Date: 06 Jan 04 - 10:58 PM

Ed-

Not to worry, Ed. I think people will generally be thrilled to look at whatever the Spirit Rover focuses on. It is our window into another world. And it is sad that Beagle-2 has gone awry. It's certainly not a sure think that Rover Opportunity won't find itself skewered.

Just stay tuned.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Is there life on Mars?
From: Ed.
Date: 06 Jan 04 - 07:40 PM

The colour pictures from 'Spirit' (the Rover) are wonderful and really exciting to my eyes.

It's a shame that many posts on this thread are either ignorant or somewhat snidey.

Subject: RE: BS: Is there life on Mars?
From: Steve Parkes
Date: 05 Jan 04 - 12:26 PM

Well, the NASA machine weighs about a ton, and would need a great deal more to slow it down; the atmospheric pressure on Mars is only about one percent (or is it less? I forget!) than Earth's, so the parachute alone wouldn't be enough. Extra airbags and rockets would have easily quadrupled B2's mass, along with all the knock-on problems: more fuel (and more mass) for the launch vehicle, less space for all the other Mars Express payloads ...

But full marks to NASA: everyone here is very happy for their success. It's not a competition -- except for governments and big businesses.

Steve

Subject: RE: BS: Is there life on Mars?
From: Arnie
Date: 05 Jan 04 - 11:21 AM

Now we learn that Beagle 2 was only protected by 3 airbags and no retro-rockets. The US rover Spirit had 24 airbags and retro-rockets to help it down to a soft landing. Additionally it was in constant contact with mission control and last minute adjustments, such as opening the parachute early, were thus possible. I know that Beagle was only a quarter of the cost of Spirit, but if it turns out that economy cost the entire mission, then all that time, effort and £45 million was quite simply a waste. Sometimes bigger is not only best but essential.... Anyway congratulations to the US team - a magnificent effort and we can all look forward to some colour (or even color!) snapshots next week.

Subject: RE: BS: Is there life on Mars?
From: Steve Parkes
Date: 05 Jan 04 - 10:58 AM

Beagle 2 -- the original Beagle was the ship that took Darwin to the Galapagos. Prof Pillinger's Clean Room where they put B2 together is just around the corner from my little room at the Open University. We've all stopped holding our breath, but we've still got our fingers crossed.

I case you didn't know, there are several miracles of miniaturistaion on board Beagle 2. F'rinstance ... a mass spectrometer was a thing the size of a sideboard (the furniture sort, not the Prof P type!) that would require a team of big lads/girls and a transit van to move around, and a bunch of technicians to set it up and operate it when you got there. Now a doctor can put one in his black bag and do tests at the patient's bedside ... any physicists who fancy working at home or on the train can now do so easily. There's a load of other stuff in there too, all of which would fit easily in your briefcase.

And there ought to be some benefit to us from sending the works of Blur and Damien Hurst into space ...

Steve

Subject: RE: BS: Is there life on Mars?
From: Charley Noble
Date: 05 Jan 04 - 08:13 AM

This is going to be one slow thread if it takes the Rover a week to reve up and move off its launching pad. Maybe we should consider padding this thread with excerpts from Edgar Rice Burroughs: Tarzan's Adventures on Mars?

Cheerily,
Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Is there life on Mars?
From: Ebbie
Date: 04 Jan 04 - 11:49 PM

Wouldn't it be absolutely mind blowing!

Subject: RE: BS: Is there life on Mars?
From: Peace
Date: 04 Jan 04 - 11:19 PM

Let's hope it makes some interesting discoveries--that NASA tells us about.

Subject: RE: BS: Is there life on Mars?
From: Ed.
Date: 04 Jan 04 - 04:21 PM

Congratulations to NASA on successfully landing the Spirit rover. Lets hope that it makes some interesting discoveries.

I've not entirely lost hope for Beagle 2, but it's looking somewhat grim...

Subject: RE: BS: Is there life on Mars?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 30 Dec 03 - 07:35 AM

There may or may not be life on Mars, but Earth now has a new Sport - Mars Golf!

You shoot a bouncing ball from Earth to Mars, and if it lands in a 1 Km diameter crater, taking into account the relative distances, that's a Hole in One!

Robin

Subject: RE: BS: Is there life on Mars?
From: Arnie
Date: 29 Dec 03 - 12:21 PM

There's a rumour going round that life has been discovered in Prof Pennington's sideburns ;>)

Subject: RE: BS: Is there life on Mars?
From: Sweetfia
Date: 29 Dec 03 - 12:08 PM

Well of course there is life on Mars.....men come from there don't they?

Subject: RE: BS: Is there life on Mars?
From: GUEST
Date: 28 Dec 03 - 11:45 PM

Bev and Jerry -

Dudes...for a long time I've been meaning to tell you how much I love your ice cream!! Cookie Dough is my favorite!!

Now what's all this about life on Mars? Isn't that like...a candy bar?

Signed, Sweet Tooth

Subject: RE: BS: Is there life on Mars?
From: GUEST,Crystal
Date: 28 Dec 03 - 06:11 PM

Life on Mars?
Hmmmm well if you believe Gerry Anderson there is either; Gigantic fire spitting Martian Rock Snakes (Thunderbirds are Go, movie). Evil Mysterons who will wage a terrible war on Earth and kill people (Captain Scarlet), Androids from the planet Guk lead by their evil Queen Zelda (Terrahawks) Or all three.
Hardly room for exploatory probes in that case.

Subject: RE: BS: Is there life on Mars?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 28 Dec 03 - 05:03 PM

Of course this one is nothing to do with NASA - it's all-European. (And Beagle is only one part of it.)

Subject: RE: BS: Is there life on Mars?
From: Bev and Jerry
Date: 28 Dec 03 - 04:20 PM

The next mission to mars was Viking in which two spacecraft (each having an orbiter and lander) were launched in i975 and both succeeded beyond our wildest dreams. This was followed by Voyager in 1977, again two spacecraft, and they visited Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus and Neptune. These were both wildly successful and are still returning information.

At this point NASA decided that we knew how to build reliable spacecraft but these missions were way too expensive. So, they went to the faster, cheaper, quicker philosophy on the assumption that an occasional failure would be acceptable because they could do many more missions. The trouble is that the failures are more than occasional and, even if they are acceptable to NASA, the public does not look too kindly on them.

Bev and Jerry

Subject: RE: BS: Is there life on Mars?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 28 Dec 03 - 02:17 PM

Missions to other worlds were from the beginning at the cutting edge of technology...We must expect a steady background of mission failures when we explore other worlds...Knowing about irreducible risks, why do we these days fly only one spaccraft per mission?...

...Consider the 1971 Mariner 8/Mariner 9 dual launch mission to Mars...Mariner 8 fell into the ocean. Mariner 9 flew on to Mars and became the first spacecraft in human history to orbit another planet. It discovered the volcanos, the laminated terrain in the polar caps, the ancient river valleys...If we had launched only Mariner 8 the endeavour would have been an unmitigated failure. With a dual launch it became a brilliant and historic success.

(Carl Sagan Pale Blue Dot.)

A lesson that clearly has not been learnt as yet.

Subject: RE: BS: Is there life on Mars?
From: ard mhacha
Date: 28 Dec 03 - 06:02 AM

According to a certain newspaper the "Batteries not included" sign was ignored,and 6 years work and £45 million pound was lost. Ard Mhacha.

Subject: RE: BS: Is there life on Mars?
From: Hrothgar
Date: 28 Dec 03 - 05:18 AM

Nice to see a few Burroughs fans around - haven't read any of that stuff for x years.

Subject: RE: BS: Is there life on Mars?
From: GUEST
Date: 28 Dec 03 - 04:24 AM

The Beagle failed to deploy on the surface. There are now two teams of Martians playing soccer with it, and they send their thanks to the UK for such a great Christmas prezzie....;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Is there life on Mars?
From: GUEST
Date: 28 Dec 03 - 04:23 AM

Subject: RE: BS: Is there life on Mars?
From: Don Firth
Date: 27 Dec 03 - 05:25 PM

"Life on Mars? Well . . . sometimes on Saturday night. . . ."
                                                                   --Tars Tarkas

Subject: RE: BS: Is there life on Mars?
From: Arnie
Date: 26 Dec 03 - 05:38 PM

Sod - I was really hoping the Beagle would work but it looks like yet another Mars mission failure. Oh well, there goes 6 yrs work and £45 million of taxpayers money, sigh..........But never mind, the US mission will arrive there shortly and that's bound to work - isn't it?? Maybe the US probe can fix the Beagle for us 'cos the Martians obviously don't have the right size spanners :-)

Arnie

Subject: RE: BS: Is there life on Mars?
From: Charley Noble
Date: 26 Dec 03 - 04:55 PM

I'm sure if the landers survive their landings some sort of life will emerge on the planet's surface, probably mad cow disease. The real question is whether they have any folk clubs up there, whatever folk music is...

Cheerily,
Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Is there life on Mars?
From: GUEST,Yvonne.
Date: 26 Dec 03 - 09:46 AM

Sorry first time here, extraterresterial life on Mars?
Well its a yes, and no ,answer.
Its obvious they are of a higher Intelligence and this is the reason they have never tried to contact us.

Subject: RE: BS: Is there life on Mars?
From: GUEST,Yvonne.
Date: 26 Dec 03 - 09:32 AM

Subject: RE: BS: Is there life on Mars?
From: Mrs.Duck
Date: 26 Dec 03 - 08:39 AM

Of corse there is life on Mars and the minute they saw another space craft approaching they all rallied round and blocked the signals with their green antennae!

Subject: RE: BS: Is there life on Mars?
From: ard mhacha
Date: 25 Dec 03 - 09:02 AM

No signals from The Beagle today,they will try again to-morrow. Ard Mhacha.

Subject: RE: BS: Is there life on Mars?
From: Amos
Date: 25 Dec 03 - 12:34 AM

Hell just a few well-built canal locks would make ALL the difference!


A

Subject: RE: BS: Is there life on Mars?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 24 Dec 03 - 09:49 PM

Dehah Thoris is enough life for any self-respecting planet. I hope they find a bunch of tharks and thoats. That would spark things up on the 6 O'Clock News.

Subject: RE: BS: Is there life on Mars?
From: mooman
Date: 24 Dec 03 - 08:24 PM

Who knows....but I do have to say hats off to Professor Bumfluff (sorry!... Pillinger) for true British eccentricity, perseverance and ingenuity. Wish I could have designed a Mars probe from Meccano (well...it's a wee bit more sophisticated than that I suppose). I just hope the bouncing ballons don't hit anything too sharp and that the Beagle does land safety.

Peace

moo

Subject: RE: BS: Is there life on Mars?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 24 Dec 03 - 08:14 PM

The English eccentric I prefer is the one who threw toilet bowls, dead cows, and Morris Minors from his home made catapult... :-)

Of course you have seen that printer ad that had the Martians rapidly printing off dead landscapes and rushing around to hold them up in front of the camera...

They're just gonna do it again...

And did you hear that the special soil penetration test sent back results of the test on the camera lens cap that amazingly fell right where the test prod was supposed to work?

The Martians did that too you know...

Robin

Subject: RE: BS: Is there life on Mars?
From: Penny S.
Date: 24 Dec 03 - 12:56 PM

The eccentric professor, who also farms, and looks and sounds that part, is Colin Pillinger of the Open University.

Penny

Subject: RE: BS: Is there life on Mars?
From: Beardy
Date: 24 Dec 03 - 11:04 AM

Dave Bryant:- it would depend on whether they met jOhn first.

Stewart

PS I take it your not coming to Whitby then

Subject: RE: BS: Is there life on Mars?
From: GUEST,Nigel Parsons (at work)
Date: 24 Dec 03 - 10:39 AM

To quote Eric Idle (of Monty Python):

"And pray that there's intelligent life somewhere up in space,
'Cause there's bugger all down here on Earth."


Nigel

Subject: RE: BS: Is there life on Mars?
From: catspaw49
Date: 24 Dec 03 - 10:39 AM

Geeziz, there's barely life here........

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Is there life on Mars?
From: Peter T.
Date: 24 Dec 03 - 10:12 AM

"The Beagle Has Landed" is from Peanuts, originally.

Of course there is life on Mars. Her name is Deja Thoris.

yours,

Peter T.

Subject: RE: BS: Is there life on Mars?
From: Gareth
Date: 24 Dec 03 - 09:59 AM

err !

Don't you mean "Euston, We have a problem !"

Gareth (Cynical *BG*)

Subject: RE: BS: Is there life on Mars?
From: Arnie
Date: 24 Dec 03 - 09:42 AM

Liz - I reckon that just about every newspaper in the UK will have 'The Beagle has landed' on the front page. However - I got it on Mudcat first!!

Arnie

Subject: RE: BS: Is there life on Mars?
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 24 Dec 03 - 08:56 AM

So who would like to take a bet on which newspaper comes up with the headline 'the Beagle has Landed'? and will they credit Les Barker with it if they do? (It's the title of one of his books)

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: Is there life on Mars?
From: Dave Bryant
Date: 24 Dec 03 - 08:44 AM

You'd probably only get a 50/50 result on the chances of there being any intelligent life forms, if it landed in Hull !

Subject: RE: BS: Is there life on Mars?
From: Donuel
Date: 24 Dec 03 - 08:15 AM

Our first Viking lander returned a mixed 50 50 result on detecting organic life. So the official report concluded there was no life.

The largest life forms on Mars will eventually be shown to be fungal some as large as 500 sq mile colonies.

The tube like structures on Mars are still beyond comprehension.

Subject: RE: BS: Is there life on Mars?
From: MMario
Date: 24 Dec 03 - 08:03 AM

Of course mars missions go screwy. The Martains are fouling them up so as to preserve their privacy. Would you want the neighbors playing peeping ttom if you could prevent it?

Subject: RE: BS: Is there life on Mars?
From: GUEST,shelley c at work
Date: 24 Dec 03 - 07:19 AM

I've just read my posting and I realise the punctuation is a bit confusing. It wasn't constructed because of his bushy sideburns..I hope you understand what I mean. I'm going to get me coat now before it all gets too confusing.

Subject: RE: BS: Is there life on Mars?
From: GUEST,shelley c at work
Date: 24 Dec 03 - 07:17 AM

There's a history of Mars missions going wrong (remember the failure that was caused by the imperial/metric confusion?). So I really hope it all goes well this time. I'd love to see some pictures live from Mars on Christmas Day.
BTW, on the news it said that Prof Pennington, the guy in charge, was not allowed near the equipment as it was constructed because of his bushy sideburns. The stuff has to be prepared in sterile conditions, and no-one with facial hair was allowed to contaminate it. The Professor refused to part with his beloved sideburns, and so had to supervise from a distance. Long live British eccentrics *g*

Subject: BS: Is there life on Mars?
From: Arnie
Date: 24 Dec 03 - 07:05 AM

Well, we might know the answer very soon! With little fanfare, a British probe, the Beagle, is due to land on the Martian surface on Christmas Day and begin a series of experiments. It's certainly got the bookies worried as they've slashed the odds on some kind of life being discovered. I thought they might have called it the Beagle so mission control could announce 'The Beagle has landed' in parody of the moon landing - but apparently it's named after Darwin's research ship. One things for sure, if there is any life up there our big corporations will soon negotiate a cheap deal on their mineral rights......