BS: Join the Christmas Resistance Movement!

Subject: RE: BS: Join the Christmas Resistance Movement!
From: GUEST
Date: 15 Dec 04 - 11:42 AM

It's the social pressures on non-Xtians some of you seem to be in denial about here, and your absolute pig headedness about refusing to accept how strong are the pressures to force assimilation upon all other cultures to conform to the dominant Anglo Xtian culture in the US especially.

We are very close, in terms of population numbers in the US, to the nation no longer being a majority of English speakers. Now, I'm sure those of you in Britain can't really get your heads around that. There are many parts of the US, especially in urban areas and certain rural ones, where you rarely hear English spoken, depending on what neighborhood you are in. Now, I know most Mudcatters live in exclusively white Xtian or white Jewish areas, and get precious little exposure to minorities. Threads like this make that blatantly obvious, despite everyone's protestations that they have "minorities" among family and friends. Having a few minority family members or friends isn't the equivalent of getting everyday, constant exposure to non-dominant minority cultures.

That is what makes this place so conservative. The people who post here are pretty much all the same. Very little cultural diversity is seen here. This is the only place in my reality, 3D or online, where I encounter this kind of bizarre behavior anymore.

Subject: RE: BS: Join the Christmas Resistance Movement!
From: Swave N. Deboner
Date: 15 Dec 04 - 10:17 AM

Well, that's me tell't then, I guess, as my Scots friends would say!

Anti-Santa, my whole point is this, and I'm speaking solely for myself here: I'm sure people who know you are quite aware of your feelings about Christmas, so they aren't likely to wish you a merry one. If I were to approach you on the street, not knowing you from Adam, and being the friendly person I am, I would probably bid you greetings of the season. I wouldn't necessarily say, "Merry Christmas", but I might say "Happy Hols" or something like that. If you didn't acknowledge me, it wouldn't ruin my day, since we're not acquainted. Nor would I be offended if you were to ask me to keep my greetings to myself because you don't celebrate the season, either. But, if you bit my head off about it right off the bat, I just might get a little irritated. After all, I would only be attempting to be pleasant.

I understand your position clearly. I know it would be unrealistic for you to walk down the street announcing to everyone within ear shot to keep their holiday well-wishes to themselves so you could avoid having anyone bidding them to you. But you need to understand that simply uttering a holiday greeting to someone is not shoving anything down their throat. I do NOT consider you an outcast of society because you don't happen to celebrate Christmas. I know plenty of people who don't keep that particular holiday. But none of them condemn people who do believe in celebrating at this time of year.   

In my 2 previous posts to this thread, I meant no offense to you. I was merely expressing my point of view, which is obviously different than yours on the subject. I'll admit, I find your caustic cyber-demeanor a bit off-putting, so perhaps I threw in some verbiage that would have been better omitted. However, I didn't resort to name calling and insults as did you. If I was inclined to respond to yours in kind, I would call you a hostile, unfriendly prick, but I won't.

By the way, I am not a troll, I'm not pathetic (at least I don't believe I am), and I'm sure not little. I stand 6' 2" and weigh in at 265 lbs. If anybody's a flaming troll, it's you.

Cheers

Swave

Subject: RE: BS: Join the Christmas Resistance Movement!
From: artbrooks
Date: 15 Dec 04 - 08:28 AM

I stuck my head back in to see if any rational discussion was going on. Guess not.

Subject: RE: BS: Join the Christmas Resistance Movement!
From: GUEST,Ron Davies
Date: 15 Dec 04 - 08:21 AM

BB---

I'd settle for Bush enlightening himself. That would be progress.

Subject: RE: BS: Join the Christmas Resistance Movement!
From: beardedbruce
Date: 15 Dec 04 - 07:09 AM

Ron,

Happy Four more years.

May Bush bless you, and enlighten you.

Happy Iraq freedom day.

Welcome to a Republican world.

Subject: RE: BS: Join the Christmas Resistance Movement!
From: GUEST,Ron Davies
Date: 15 Dec 04 - 06:45 AM

Anti-Santa-----

Please take a minute and read your own postings, especially the later ones.


I repeat:   you need help---and more than we can give.


I hope you don't take your rage out on the kids in your public school. If you do, more serious problems than Christmas need addressing. If you are a teacher, I have to say I certainly wouldn't want any children of mine taught by you, with your own huge unresolved issues. We have excellent teachers posting on Mudcat--and then there's you. (But perhaps you're not a teacher We can hope.)

And, by the way, you might note you have a cause here. Your, shall we say, less than welcoming attitude toward anyone who may differ one iota is not likely to win many converts to your grandiose Christmas Resistance Movement. Live and let live might be considered. You may want to moderate your tone just a bit.

Subject: RE: BS: Join the Christmas Resistance Movement!
From: GUEST,Anti Santa
Date: 14 Dec 04 - 02:08 PM

"Saying "Merry Christmas" or, if you want to be politically correct, "Season's Greetings", or "Happy f--kin' Holidays" if you like, is certainly not shoving Christmas down anybody's throat."

It is in my opinion.

and then this:

"It's an expression of hospitality and human warmth, something you seem to be sadly short of."

I disagree with that statement too. There is no law that says everyone must reply in kind to the expression of phony holiday sentiment, especially the person you are expressing it to has asked you not to do it.

There continues to be controversy over the public aspects of this holiday for a reason. A lot of us don't like being forced into enduring the phoniness, the superficiality, and the dominant culture shoving it's cultural traditions in our faces year after year when we want nothing to do with it.

You are perfectly entitled to your opinion SND, including your opinion of the ways you think everyone should be required to respond to Xmas celebrants forcing themselves upon non-celebrants by making "cheerful" holiday remarks. I don't know why you think that is. I work in a public school, and we don't put up with it. Sure there is a Secret Santa thing, but people CHOOSE to participate in it. We don't play holiday songs, wish people "happy holidays" because a good portion of our student population aren't celebrating a holiday at this time of year.

Now, you could just accept the fact you can't rudely shove your opinion down MY throat, but for some reason, you feel compelled to keep coming back at me, as if it will change my opinion. I assure you, it will not.

Now, I'm sure you, SND, like the other passsive aggressive trolls posting in this thread for the sole purpose of trying to antagonize l'il ole me, would just love to shove your opinion don't my throat and make me "take it".

So long as you behave like that, you'll get from me as good as you're giving.

So ho fucking ho ho to you too, you pathetic, sad little troll.

Subject: RE: BS: Join the Christmas Resistance Movement!
From: GUEST,Anti-Santa
Date: 14 Dec 04 - 01:47 PM

Nope Guest 9:56, you got it bass ackwards. This thread started out perfectly reasonable, with me and Pauline. Then everybody who came on board after that came in to have their say about how they loved Xmas, sorta liked it, did or didn't do this that or the other thing at Xmas, and hijacked the thread.

That is troll behavior, and it is exhibited by passive aggressive jerks.

Like yourself.

Subject: RE: BS: Join the Christmas Resistance Movement!
From: Swave N. Deboner
Date: 14 Dec 04 - 01:44 PM

"This is more proof (as if any were needed) that secularists are targets for the Christian majority here in Mudcat, and that the most intolerant group posting here, and the Christians."

(Sorry I haven't learned how to italicize quotes from other posts yet)

Targets for the Christian majority, indeed. My ONLY target is my f---kin' dart board, man. Anti Santa, besides appearing to be a miserable person, you seem a little paranoid, too.

What I'd like to know is, just what the f--k's wrong with wishing somebody well any way? Saying "Merry Christmas" or, if you want to be politically correct, "Season's Greetings", or "Happy f--kin' Holidays" if you like, is certainly not shoving Christmas down anybody's throat. It's an expression of hospitality and human warmth, something you seem to be sadly short of. Most people I know, Christian or not, wouldn't rip somebody a new asshole for not regognizing or celebrating Christmas, or any other holiday for that matter.

You don't like people saying "Merry Christmas" to you? So don't f--kin' listen then. Ignore it. But quit condemning people for being pleasant.

SND

Subject: RE: BS: Join the Christmas Resistance Movement!
From: GUEST
Date: 14 Dec 04 - 09:56 AM

"Why do you want to harangue people who don't share your feelings about the holidays? What kind of a sick mother fucker does that?"

Obviously you're the kind of sick mother fucker that does that, Anti Santa.

Subject: RE: BS: Join the Christmas Resistance Movement!
From: GUEST,Anti-Santa
Date: 14 Dec 04 - 08:27 AM

I find it absolutely hilarious that people think I must be miserable, because I'm abusing Mudcat trolls. That is all they are. Obnoxious trolls. They see a thread title that challenges their worldview about Christmas, and they come trolling their way into the thread to upset the applecart, for the sole purpose of antagonizing people and getting in their faces about Christmas.

This is more proof (as if any were needed) that secularists are targets for the Christian majority here in Mudcat, and that the most intolerant group posting here, and the Christians. That is why we can't hold a decent conversation here about avoiding the dominant culture's Christian capitalist high holy retail season, without a bunch of trolls leaping into the thread, and talking about why they love Christmas, and what pathetic human beings us secularists be.

They just can't tolerate anyone who isn't just like them in their presence here. Talk about sad and pathetic!

Subject: RE: BS: Join the Christmas Resistance Movement!
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 13 Dec 04 - 04:42 PM

Its all comparative - Christmas is a lot better than ......fri night 5.30 on the M1. Or Thurs night...come to that. And road works and repeats of The Bill, or taking someone round the January sales in a wheelchair, or getting your credit card bill,...or the January sales with shops full of total dogshit.

Christmas does have its bad points...the Cliff Richard single, the check outs at the supermarket the night before,....but on balance I think as an experience its not bad rather than completely dire.

Subject: RE: BS: Join the Christmas Resistance Movement!
From: Swave N. Deboner
Date: 13 Dec 04 - 01:55 PM

Anti-Santa, you have every right not to observe Christmas, but you don't have any right to vilify those who do, whether for religious reasons, or because we are nice, decent people who want to spread a little cheer in an otherwise bleek world. Nor does any pro-Christmas person have the right to judge or bash those tho do not observe the holiday. As adamant as you are, if we were all as easily lead as you keep insiting we are, we'd prescribe to your sorry, pathetic, sad perspective without question. You come across as a very miserable person, bereft of any happiness or joy in your life. I feel pity for you, because you are pitiful. Merry Christmas all the same.

SNB

Subject: RE: BS: Join the Christmas Resistance Movement!
From: GUEST,Anti-Bush
Date: 13 Dec 04 - 08:41 AM

So get on board the Anti-Santa express folks, and join the Xmas resisters!

Nothing pisses off religious nuts and conformists like the Bushies (or the Kerries, for that matter) than the XMAS RESISTANCE!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Join the Christmas Resistance Movement!
From: Peace
Date: 13 Dec 04 - 12:46 AM

I think I don't want to talk about--let alone think about--the Resident President. The people have spoken, albeit in a way I don't like or understand, but they have spoken. Time to suck it up.

However, suck it up doesn't mean sit back and laud the incumbent. Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo! And nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo again.

Subject: RE: BS: Join the Christmas Resistance Movement!
From: beardedbruce
Date: 12 Dec 04 - 08:57 PM

Ron,

Politics is a little off-topic here, but as I have stated in other threads, there is a lot about Bush I don't like- If the Dems had RUN a better person, I might have been able to vote for someone else.

IMHO, if the Dems had won the election with the candidate they had, we would have beeen worse off in both the short and long-term.

My opinion, which you may choose to differ with.

Subject: RE: BS: Join the Christmas Resistance Movement!
From: GUEST,The Anti-Santa
Date: 12 Dec 04 - 08:48 PM

Ron, even I'm beginning to feel embarrassed for you. Why do you want to harangue people who don't share your feelings about the holidays? What kind of a sick mother fucker does that?

Subject: RE: BS: Join the Christmas Resistance Movement!
From: GUEST,Ron Davies
Date: 12 Dec 04 - 02:52 PM

There's always more great Christmas music---more every year. Recently I sang a song called the Hawaiian Carol--did in fact have a Hawaiian flavor to it--arranged, I think, by Sir Malcolm Sargent.

Then there's offbeat "carols"---- ( which we just sing at our party, where we also sing parodies, but probably not what you would like, Mr Anti-Santa)--- like the Bitter Withy.

And of course wassails and songs that sound like wassails but really aren't--like Sound, Sound Your Instruments of Joy.

Just about ready for my 13th annual SATB door-to-door caroling. Don't worry, Mr. Anti-Santa--we won't be knocking on your door--- we only sing for people with Christmas decorations on their door, or who we know in advance want to hear us.

But we never make much headway along the street--there's so much demand for us that it's hard to leave a house.

Hope everybody enjoys the season!

Subject: RE: BS: Join the Christmas Resistance Movement!
From: GUEST,Anti-Santa
Date: 12 Dec 04 - 02:08 PM

Da doo Ron Ron, what the hell makes you think I'm hot under the collar? Dream on, dude I'm having a great time abusing you. Please come back soon for more, sucker.

Stuff a sock in it Jake, the ghosts are YOUR delusion.

Subject: RE: BS: Join the Christmas Resistance Movement!
From: GUEST,Jacob Marley
Date: 12 Dec 04 - 12:34 PM

....when the clock strikes one, you will be visited by the first of three ghosts....

Subject: RE: BS: Join the Christmas Resistance Movement!
From: GUEST,Ron Davies
Date: 12 Dec 04 - 12:19 PM

Also

BB--

I'm so sorry to have to tell you this, but if you had hoped to have a prayer, so to speak, of a de-emphasis of Christmas as an official state holiday, then voting for Bush was, to say the least, not a good move.

It's too bad you didn't figure this out a little earlier.

Well, them's the breaks.

Subject: RE: BS: Join the Christmas Resistance Movement!
From: GUEST,Ron Davies
Date: 12 Dec 04 - 11:55 AM

Who is just a tiny bit hot under the collar? Clue: it's not me.

Subject: RE: BS: Join the Christmas Resistance Movement!
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Dec 04 - 08:21 AM

Anti-Santa poor? Oh, I think not Ronnie boy. Rich in spirit because I'm not a social lemming.

And as to having to put up with Xmas for the rest of my life, I know that idea would cheer up a passive aggressive Xmas worshipping jerk like yerself, but I don't even put up with Xmas now! Except to harangue people like you Ronnie baby. I'm beginning to think that you are not only passive aggressive but a masochist as well. You do keep coming back here asking to be abused over and over and over and...

Why, I guess one could even say you truly deserve our contempt!

And have a nice, merry day.

Subject: RE: BS: Join the Christmas Resistance Movement!
From: GUEST,beardedbruce
Date: 12 Dec 04 - 02:13 AM

But back to the point- Xmas, as practiced in the US, is not religious so much as social- but it does have a religious basis that not all of us share. IF there is reason to keep support for religion out of the government, then perhaps the idea of celebrating this holiday should be rethought. On the other hand, if the government celebration is ok, then it shows a true link between the religion and government, which is not supported by the Bill of Rights.

Subject: RE: BS: Join the Christmas Resistance Movement!
From: beardedbruce
Date: 12 Dec 04 - 01:00 AM

lots more conservatives- and the Dems have not yet figured out that they need to run FOR the office, not AGAINST the incumbant...

Subject: RE: BS: Join the Christmas Resistance Movement!
From: GUEST,Ron Davies
Date: 11 Dec 04 - 11:42 PM

Yup, you're right, BB.

Regardless, there will never be more than 4 more years of Bush.

But poor Anti-Santa will have to contend with Christmas for the rest of his life. Truly, he deserves our sympathy.

Subject: RE: BS: Join the Christmas Resistance Movement!
From: beardedbruce
Date: 11 Dec 04 - 08:19 PM

Perhaps we should ask Ron how he feels about people greeting him with " Another four years! Thank God!"

seems like he should have no complaint at all...

Subject: RE: BS: Join the Christmas Resistance Movement!
From: Peace
Date: 11 Dec 04 - 08:10 PM

GUEST A-S: You are mellowing. It's plain to see--mellowing.

Subject: RE: BS: Join the Christmas Resistance Movement!
From: GUEST,Anti-Santa
Date: 11 Dec 04 - 07:25 PM

God save us, the Xmas worshippers are swarming in through the windows! We're fucking doomed. They can't keep to their own Xmas worshipping threads to save their petty little lives.

Well, since you are both obviously in need of some Anti-Santa abuse, all I can say is, you asked for it, so here it is!

I mean this with all sincerety Linn, I don't give a shit what you do for gift-giving.

And I couldn't be more genuine, weelittledrummer, when I say "bugger off you wanker!" We aren't in this thread to listen to your "what I love most about Xmas" drivel!

YER BOTH IN THE WRONG

DAMN

THREAD!

Try here to see if the Whatnoll family gives a shit what you think about Xmas! I don't!

God DAMN I'm enjoying myself here. Hey! All you passive aggressive Mudcat Xmas worshippers who want to rain on the "Piss Off Xmas Cheerleaders" parade COME ON DOWN! Get your absolutely free, no assembly required dose of Xmas abuse here! The Anti-Santa is happy to keep doling it out to any and all attempts to stamp out the message of our Xmas resistance!

C'mon now, share more of your Xmas fantasies, sweet and swell holiday stories, and let us do all we can to make that Xmas magic thing work overtime for ya this year! Xmas troll satisfaction guaranteed!

Subject: RE: BS: Join the Christmas Resistance Movement!
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 11 Dec 04 - 05:32 PM

Well I like Christmas.

The thing is to enjoy it in your own way. Go out and do a gig - somebody will have you somewhere - after all its Christmas.

I don't like dinners. Not sitting down. And you can't get a decent pizza on Christmas Day. Or a Curry.

Thats the downside.

On the plus side - they always show Casablanca. No post, so theres no bills arriving. and people say Merry Christmas, which is nicer than what sometimes gets said round here.

Subject: RE: BS: Join the Christmas Resistance Movement!
From: Bat Goddess
Date: 11 Dec 04 - 05:06 PM

Personally, I think every one needs a good mid-winter festival as an excuse to have fun, eat and drink something a little fancier than pork and beans, and get in touch with friends or relatives you may not have heard from for awhile. Call it whatever you like; I'm not particular.

Never did pass Consumerism 101. But I scored high in both Beginning and Advanced Recycling.

I acquire most of the gifts I give at yard sales, flea markets, consignment shops and antique shops. Except for the things I make. I don't spend a lot of money because I don't HAVE a lot of money and I don't buy stuff for the sake of buying stuff. Oh, and I buy CDs from folk musicians -- not big corporate empires and distribution systems. I design and produce my own greeting cards.

Besides, this time of year is the only time you can get commercial eggnog in the grocery stores. I LOVE commercial eggnog.

Just my 2¢ worth (cuz I can't afford much more than that -- I'm unemployed again and can't collect unemployment until after the first of the year).

Linn

Subject: RE: BS: Join the Christmas Resistance Movement!
From: GUEST,Anti-Santa
Date: 11 Dec 04 - 04:24 PM

And Up Yours too! :)













Ooooh....Anti-Santa is REALLY cantankerous now!

Subject: RE: BS: Join the Christmas Resistance Movement!
From: GUEST,Anti-Santa
Date: 11 Dec 04 - 04:23 PM

All together now everybody--

BUGGER OFF RON DAVIES!!! LEAVE US ALONE!!! GO SPREAD YER BLOODY CHEER IN THE SECRET SANTA THREADS!!! WE DON'T WANT IT HERE!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Join the Christmas Resistance Movement!
From: GUEST,Ron Davies
Date: 11 Dec 04 - 04:18 PM

Anti-Santa-


You may have noticed the world isn't perfect.

You're very unhappy with the idea that Christmas exists. The vast majority of the rest of the world, including the vast majority of us, is unhappy with the idea that it appears George W Bush has been elected. (Unless we can prove massive fraud).


We both have to live with these facts.

It seems to me you only have grounds for complaint if, after your cheery response of "Bugger off", somebody for the second time tells you "Merry Christmas".

Unless of course you're another one with a lot of pent-up rage. (We already have one.) And I suspect, not just at Christmas.

But thanks for being willing to differentiate yourself from the amorphous mass of nameless Guests we're honored to have.

Subject: RE: BS: Join the Christmas Resistance Movement!
From: michaelr
Date: 11 Dec 04 - 04:12 PM

Love it! Thanks for the link, Anti-Santa. It supports what has been my attitude for years.

Cheers,
Michael

Subject: RE: BS: Join the Christmas Resistance Movement!
From: GUEST,Anti-Santa
Date: 11 Dec 04 - 04:07 PM

I intend to remain as cantankerous and off-putting as possible throughout the season. It helps keep the Xmas worshippers away.

You see, the worship of Christmas has precious little to do with being a Christian celebration, as the historic record shows clearly. It is a modern celebration among Anglo Americans which has now returned like a scourge to some places in Europe, like Britain, in all it's capitalist excess and glory.

I mean, the "universal Christmas" doesn't exactly reflect Italian tradition, now does it? Now there's some folks who know how to celebrate a winter holiday in spite of Our Lord and Savior (pass the holy wine, please)!

Nay, this "universal Christmas" thing is about getting minorities like me to conform to the majority Anglo American dominant culture's celebration of the turn of the Roman New Year, the Celtic New Year, the Asian New Year, etc etc with all the debauchery attend to said festivities.

One thing I will always treasure about my time in Ireland was the memory of how miserable most the Irish people I encountered at Xmas were, because the pubs were all closed, and they were forced to endure close to 48 hours with their families. Which any sane person knows isn't such a good idea for most of us, especially in the dark and dreary days of winter.

I can party with the best of them, but ever since adolescence, I've been hell bent on escaping my family at the holidays, not looking for cheery "seasonal" music to accompany "the horror" as Brando said in "Apocalypse Now", which is an accurate depiction of my family at Xmas time, how about yours?

Subject: RE: BS: Join the Christmas Resistance Movement!
From: Peace
Date: 11 Dec 04 - 03:47 PM

Also, I don't think you're the rotten ol' bas###d you're trying to come across as. From one ROB to another.

BM

Subject: RE: BS: Join the Christmas Resistance Movement!
From: Peace
Date: 11 Dec 04 - 03:46 PM

Did you ever see the movie, "Airplane"? If so, do you recall the scene where the Hari Krishna guys were soliciting donations? I roared when I saw that. I would chuckle about your button. I am so far removed from Christmas--have been for two years now--that I don't really understand what all the hoopla is about. It doesn't really pee me off, but from where I sit, I do ken what you're saying. (Right now I'm hoping I used 'ken' correctly.)

Subject: RE: BS: Join the Christmas Resistance Movement!
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Dec 04 - 03:40 PM

BTW brucie, I do have a button I keep on my backpack that says "Don't Assume I'm Christian" that I wear year round. But that button doesn't stop the non-Xtian &/or non-practicticing Xtian, pro-Xmas brigades from attacking this time of year.

You see, the sin isn't that you don't want to be involved in Xmas because you object to the religious aspects of the holiday. The sin is not conforming to the majority.

Subject: RE: BS: Join the Christmas Resistance Movement!
From: Peace
Date: 11 Dec 04 - 03:39 PM

You are not a sociopath. You are different, and it would be a very boring world if we were all the same.

I do not know Ron, but I have the well-founded suspicion that he doesn't worship Baal/Capitalism. I see him as a usually cheery guy who thinks about issues and then posts. I do not always agree with him, but that's cool, because we all be cool about stuff on the 'cat. I agree that the money side of Yule sucks the big one, but for many it truly IS a time to celebrate the birth of their God, and I can respect that even though I don't perceive it in the same way.

Despite my earlier remarks to you GUEST A-S, I do wish you a relaxing and 'festive' season. Forget the Santa stuff and the Birth stuff. I simply hope you have a good time, and I apologize for getting bitchy with you.

Bruce Murdoch

Subject: RE: BS: Join the Christmas Resistance Movement!
From: GUEST,Anti-Santa
Date: 11 Dec 04 - 03:31 PM

My seasonal Mudcat pseudonym, along with the title I've given the thread, should serve as an obvious and sufficient warning for anyone who can read.

If Ron Davies chooses to keep getting in our faces in this thread and antoagonize us in this way, including telling me I'm a sociopath for not being "in the spirit", then he gets all the Bugger Offs! he truly and bloody well deserves in this thread, from me at least, and with no apology.

He is simply playing the role of Xmas troll here, is all. He is one of the dysfunctional Xmas worshippers I'm complaining about here, so he feels he must come in here and defend his sacred form of capitalist worship is all.

No law says I have to have mercy on him for getting belligerent and in my face about it.

Subject: RE: BS: Join the Christmas Resistance Movement!
From: Peace
Date: 11 Dec 04 - 03:18 PM

Wear a sign that reads, "I do NOT believe in Christmas, so keep your greetings to yourself." Then you won't have to tell Ron rude things.

Subject: RE: BS: Join the Christmas Resistance Movement!
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Dec 04 - 02:23 PM

No I don't Ron. Not celebrating Xmas, and not wanting any part of it, isn't a mental illness, a sociaal disease or even socially unacceptable in terms of politeness. It's those Xtians and Xmas worshippers who insist we be polite when they are rude enough to get in our faces with a cultural celebration we want no part of who are the rude ones.

So really, truly, Ron BUGGER THE FUCK OFF!

(Sorry for the lapse so early on there, Olive)

Subject: RE: BS: Join the Christmas Resistance Movement!
From: GUEST,Ron Davies
Date: 11 Dec 04 - 01:10 PM

Anti-Santa

You need help--and more help than we can give.

Subject: RE: BS: Join the Christmas Resistance Movement!
From: GUEST,Anti-Santa
Date: 11 Dec 04 - 12:52 PM

Bugger Off Ron! I am perfectly within my rights to tell Xmas worshippers to bugger off in the first place for wishing me a Merry Christmas.

It is THEIR ignorant and deluded belief that everyone on the planet is required to POLITELY endure their "Merry Christmas" wishes being shoved in our faces--even if we are Jewish, Muslim, Sikh, Buddhist, Confucian, agnositics about the fairies, or what have you.

That's the real kicker to me. The insistence of the Xmas worshippers that the rest of us be polite about their arrogant assumptions as members of a dominant culture shoving their cultural ideologies down our throats!

The arrogant NERVE of people like you Ron, is part of what gripes me most about living in the US at this time of year.

Subject: RE: BS: Join the Christmas Resistance Movement!
From: GUEST,Ron Davies
Date: 11 Dec 04 - 12:38 PM

Anti-Santa---

You can tell the Xmas cheerers to bugger off------but it's not reasonable to resent them for saying Merry Christmas to you in the first place.

Subject: RE: BS: Join the Christmas Resistance Movement!
From: GUEST,The Anti-Santa
Date: 11 Dec 04 - 09:46 AM

Olive, you are a genius! Until then, we'll have to settle for telling the Xmas cheerers to Bugger Off! But let's save the "Up Yours" for Valentine's Day!

Donuel--thanks for belly laugh! You are right, there are so few of those sorts of holidays. But they've got their dates on that blessed event in the tavern all wrong! But don't tell the worshippers that, it just makes them all the more grimly jolly.

Subject: RE: BS: Join the Christmas Resistance Movement!
From: Emma B
Date: 10 Dec 04 - 04:25 PM

Oh goody Olive - can we have Bugger-off cards and pressies too?

Subject: RE: BS: Join the Christmas Resistance Movement!
From: Donuel
Date: 10 Dec 04 - 03:21 PM

But we so seldom get to celebrate a mono-clonal in-utero implantation brought to full term and delvered in a tavern...
type holiday.

comon its only once a year.

Subject: RE: BS: Join the Christmas Resistance Movement!
From: GUEST,Olive Whatnoll
Date: 10 Dec 04 - 03:16 PM

I've got nofink against Christmas. It's a good time for eatin and drinkin one's self into a state of stupefaction and generally engagin in excess of every sort. It's a safety valve. Wifout Christmas we might face bloody revolution becuz people would experience a build up of tension and 'ostility and it would explode into violence. That's my take on it.

Be that as it may I would favour a national "Bugger Off!" Day bein established so's to further reduce pent up feelings. I suggest a date around mid-January for Bugger Off! Day. One would go about tellin other people to bugger off in no uncertain terms and be able to do it wifout a bad conscience or otehr repercussions.

We could follow that wif "UP YOURS! Day", to be held in late February. Late February is a hellish time of year, and people need some relief at that time.

Imagine the pleasure of bein able to freely tell traffic police, the landlord, the vicar...or even the Queen...to BUGGER OFF! on that special day in January. And then tellin' em all "UP YOURS!" in late February.

And it would not require spendin a dime.

By the bye, I 'ave a special announcement comin' up soon, so wait for it!

Subject: RE: BS: Join the Christmas Resistance Movement!
From: Peace
Date: 10 Dec 04 - 02:52 PM

I fail to see how someone who gives me a smile or hello or Merry Christmas is raining on my parade. You care to explain that? I suppose you'd rather have an "up yers'?

There was a horse with no name; now, there's a thread with no point.

Have a good day, A-S. Or a rotten one. Which ever makes you feel better or worse or whatever.

(I thought Scrooge was a fictional characetr created by Dickens. Live and learn.)

Subject: RE: BS: Join the Christmas Resistance Movement!
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Dec 04 - 01:50 PM

Subject: RE: BS: Join the Christmas Resistance Movement!
From: GUEST,The Anti-Santa
Date: 10 Dec 04 - 09:03 AM

OK, just for those of us who would like to carry on with this thread (and since the great name 'milk monitor' is already taken), for this thread I shall henceforth be The Anti-Santa.

Pauline, what are the aspects of "the season" that you find most difficult to handle? For me, it is the automatic expectations that people have that everyone "does" Xmas/the Holidays, and that even if they don't, and don't wish to participate in any of it, insist that we are bad people (read: "grinches") for having the audacity to dare and speak up and say we don't celebrate, and don't wish to be included in the celebrations.

This is truly a season of making people who don't follow the lemmings over the Xmas cliff, social pariahs. Yet, the same people who ostracize and criticize and demonize those who choose not to partake in "the spirit of the season" come back at you passive aggressively by forcing their "good will" on you whether you bloody well want it or not.

Subject: RE: BS: Join the Christmas Resistance Movement!
From: GUEST,Ron Davies
Date: 10 Dec 04 - 08:19 AM

Totally anonymous "Guest"s have, shall we say, little authority in telling the rest of us on Mudcat what to do.

If, for instance, you, Pauline, had started this, then fine.

But to try to carry on a conversation with any number of interchangeable "Guests" is not reasonable.

Subject: RE: BS: Join the Christmas Resistance Movement!
From: Wolfgang
Date: 10 Dec 04 - 06:58 AM

boycotting the capitalist Christmas traditions of X-tians and non-X-tians alike (my emphasis)

This thread was begun in the spirit of providing alternatives for people who don't want ANY part of Xmas, Xtian or not.

It would have helped, 09 Dec 04 - 06:53 PM, if you had stated your intentions in the first post.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: Join the Christmas Resistance Movement!
From: Strollin' Johnny
Date: 10 Dec 04 - 06:41 AM

Hot mince pies, brandy butter, a large tot of Bunnahabhainn. Heaven.

Subject: RE: BS: Join the Christmas Resistance Movement!
From: Wolfgang
Date: 10 Dec 04 - 06:10 AM

boycotting the capitalist Christmas traditions of X-tians and non-X-tians alike (my emphasis)

This thread was begun in the spirit of providing alternatives for people who don't want ANY part of Xmas, Xtian or not.

It would have helped, 09 Dec 04 - 06:53 PM, if you had stated your intentions in the first post.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: Join the Christmas Resistance Movement!
From: Pauline L
Date: 10 Dec 04 - 02:06 AM

Guest wrote, "Like I said, there are currently many threads people who want to share all their joy, goodwill, peace on earth, and shopping secrets and tips with one another. But there are no threads for those of us looking to cope with the dominant culture's obsession with this holiday."

I agree! I do need a cybercommunity to help me make it through this season. Ron, I admire you if you can cope with it all by yourself, but I can't.

I agree with Bill D. Guest, please give yourself a name. You don't have to reveal your true identity, but a name would make it so much easier for us to track the conversation.

Subject: RE: BS: Join the Christmas Resistance Movement!
From: Peace
Date: 09 Dec 04 - 11:24 PM

GUEST:

Talk.

Subject: RE: BS: Join the Christmas Resistance Movement!
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 09 Dec 04 - 11:19 PM

Guest: I find it extremely ironic. Or is it X-tremely? I don't know if you are the Guest who hijacked the thread I started wishing Christians, Muslims, Jews, Agnostics, Atheists, Republicans and Democrats well and tried to turn it into an anti-Christian, anti-Christmas thread. I can't tell one Guest from another, which is part of the problem. If you are that Guest, then you shouldn't be complaining.. If not, then my sympathy goes out to you. No one appreciates threads being hi-jacked.

Jerry

Subject: RE: BS: Join the Christmas Resistance Movement!
From: GUEST,Ron Davies
Date: 09 Dec 04 - 09:50 PM

Please, courageous " Guest", let us help you.

What terrible trauma in childhood has led you to the sad state you are now in, which requires you to seek out cyber-buddies for a "problem" the rest of us have somehow managed to conquer on their own.?

Or is it the cute (non red-and green) address labels the CRM sent you?

What level of support did you sign up at? I understand that at the $100 level they will send you a Santa dartboard? Is this true?

Please, enlighten us.

Subject: RE: BS: Join the Christmas Resistance Movement!
From: PoppaGator
Date: 09 Dec 04 - 09:02 PM

Sorry, GUEST. I didn't realize you were in such woeful need of commiseration that an insensitive response would cause you such distress.

I was intrigued and amused by the title, and since I hate some aspects of contemporary Christmas (although not as many as I love), I thought my comments might be tolerated. Guess I was dead wrong.

Please, have "your" thread to yourself.

Subject: RE: BS: Join the Christmas Resistance Movement!
From: Bill D
Date: 09 Dec 04 - 07:09 PM

pick a name, 'guest', then you'll have a lot less explaining to do...

oh, I forgot...there's some sort of 'principle' involved that says you demean yourself if you make it easier on folks to keep all the various 'guests' straight

Subject: RE: BS: Join the Christmas Resistance Movement!
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Dec 04 - 07:03 PM

Don't know what happened, but the above was sent before I finished it.

As I was saying, my intention for the thread was to create a space on the forum for those of us who do not celebrate Christmas/"the Holidays" secular or Christmas/"the Holidays" religious, or in any other guise. Because of the onslaught of "the season" I thought it would be good to have a place where we can go and share some solidarity with others who are like us, ie don't celebrate ANYTHING about "the Holidays"/"the season"/Christmas, and who are looking for some like company to get us through all the bloody Mudcat "holiday" cheer.

Like I said, there are currently many threads people who want to share all their joy, goodwill, peace on earth, and shopping secrets and tips with one another. But there are no threads for those of us looking to cope with the dominant culture's obsession with this holiday.

PoppaGator, please don't take this personally, but if you wish to support the capitalists this and each and every season, maybe you could just start a thread of your own, requesting that people shop til they drop in support of the capitalist retailers you want to see supported, instead. Would that be all right?

And yes, thank you all, I know I can't dictate who does and doesn't post here, or what they will post here, but it would be nice if we could have a thread for those of us who don't celebrate, to help us cope with all those of you who do.

Our local St Paul paper ran an interesting article yesterday on the passive aggressive "traditions" of Christmas/holiday celebrants. It certainly would apply here.

Subject: RE: BS: Join the Christmas Resistance Movement!
From: Peace
Date: 09 Dec 04 - 06:59 PM

Were you spirited away by elves?

Subject: RE: BS: Join the Christmas Resistance Movement!
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Dec 04 - 06:53 PM

Let me explain. Guest 4:03 is me, and I also started the thread. The thread's purpose was NOT to discuss/share how people celebrate Christmas so as not feel guilty about it.

It is for those of us

Subject: RE: BS: Join the Christmas Resistance Movement!
From: Don Firth
Date: 09 Dec 04 - 06:12 PM

If the GUEST who is blowing his or her stack about the number of Christmas threads is the same GUEST who started this thread (thereby adding to the number!), I thought this was about boycotting the Christmas spending orgy. That's pretty much what my wife and I do, but we do "keep Christmas," as Dickens would say.

If this was intended to be a totally anti-Christmas thread, as in "BAH! HUMBUG!" then sorry I peed in your punchbowl.

I'm gone. But don't look for me at the mall because I won't be there.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Join the Christmas Resistance Movement!
From: PoppaGator
Date: 09 Dec 04 - 05:40 PM

Sorry all about you, GUEST!

I thought this was a *discussion*, not an arena where only concurring opinions are permitted. Would it really be all that interesting if all anyone could contribute were "Yes" or "Me too"?

Perhaps I didn't express myself precisely. What I was trying to say was that, while the worst commercialized aspects of X-mas certainly lead many to *spend* excessively, for others it is a necessary opportunity to *earn* a living. Many of those engaged in this seasonal commerce "get enough" at work and their participation as private citizens (consumers) may be quite limited/modest.

Is this not a slightly interesting insight? Or is it perhaps not sufficiently "correct" or "on-topic" for you?

Subject: Lyr Add: THANK CHRIST FOR CHRISTMAS (Enoch Kent)
From: akenaton
Date: 09 Dec 04 - 05:26 PM

"Thank Christ for Christmas".......Enoch Kent 1962.

Christmas came again last year,
like the Holy bible say.
Now man must stash his cash all yaer,
because of Christmas day.

All the stores were gaily garnished,
tinsel and imitation snow.
And we look forward to Christmas day,
and hope you have the dough.

Some people say its all because,
of a boy called Jesus Christ.
And not for makin excess cash,
those people are not very nice.

Sing the praises,ring the cash up,
a saviour born to men.
He saved us all from bankrupcy,
may he soon come down again.

Nina and Frederik, Gracie Fields,
are getting in the act.
For a Christmas song sells like a bomb,
and thats a well known fact.

"Mary's boy child","Little donkey",
"Santa kisses mum".
As long as you play upon the theme,
You'll make a goodly sum.

So a Merry Christmas everyone,
Although that greetings stale.
If you dont get the gift you want,
You'll get it in the January sale.

Hallelujah line the pavements,
cram the cash desk with your pay.
Thank God for Christianity,
And roll on Christmas day.



To the tune of "Mary's boy child".........St Ake

Subject: RE: BS: Join the Christmas Resistance Movement!
From: Little Hawk
Date: 09 Dec 04 - 05:26 PM

I joined the Christmas Resistance Movement you mention years ago. I consider it a spiritual occasion and a celebration of the return of the sun(light), not an excuse to spend myself into bankruptcy.

Subject: RE: BS: Join the Christmas Resistance Movement!
From: artbrooks
Date: 09 Dec 04 - 05:18 PM

Sorry, GUEST 4:03 PM. I thought GUEST 9:11 AM started this thread to discuss "boycotting the capitalist Christmas traditions of X-tians and non-X-tians alike", whatever an X-tian is, and the earlier posters were certainly doing so. If you want to start an anti-holiday thread, why don't you do so and let this one go on the the spirit that the originator intended?

Subject: RE: BS: Join the Christmas Resistance Movement!
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Dec 04 - 04:06 PM

I just counted 14 Xmas or "holiday" related threads in the BS section alone, and it is only December 9th.

Please, give us a break. Please share your Xmas stories in the Xmas/holiday threads, and leave us in peace. And no, not THAT sort of peace.

Subject: RE: BS: Join the Christmas Resistance Movement!
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Dec 04 - 04:03 PM

No, not "so be it." That is the point of this thread--to not "so be it". Do you pro-Xmas folks not have enough Xmas threads of your own? This thread was begun in the spirit of providing alternatives for people who don't want ANY part of Xmas, Xtian or not.

Or have you "we only do non-commercial things" folks decided we aren't even deserving of that sort of space here?

Subject: RE: BS: Join the Christmas Resistance Movement!
From: PoppaGator
Date: 09 Dec 04 - 03:05 PM

After a couple of years working a seasonal second job at the local shopping mall, I have more sympathy now than ever before for folks who rely on the December rush for about half their annual income. Sure, it's a crazy custom that has diddly-squat to do with the religious aspects of Christmas and the other concurrent festivals, but it's part of the world we live in, and so be it.

I've been glad to participate, making some extra money and having lots of fun portraying Santa Claus.

Being of modest means, my family and I are pretty small-time buyers/givers/recipients of gifts. Since the kids have grown, they expect and get less than they were starry-eyed Santa believers. What we find most important is simply being together, plus of course eating and drinking BIG TIME!

Subject: RE: BS: Join the Christmas Resistance Movement!
From: Don Firth
Date: 09 Dec 04 - 02:28 PM

. . . a little "two-buck Chuck" with dinner now and then. Coke makes me burp.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Join the Christmas Resistance Movement!
From: Don Firth
Date: 09 Dec 04 - 02:17 PM

Our main Christmas celebration usually involves going to a candlelight service on Christmas eve, occasionally even performing, e.g., providing the traditional guitar accompaniment for a traditional rendition of Silent Night. Then on Christmas day, either having a small gathering at our apartment or going to a similar small gathering at friends or relatives. Dinner and general merriment.

If the "Commercial Christmas Industry" relied on Barbara and me, they'd be in pretty sad straits.

Gifts? Yeah, a few. We're getting my brother-in-law, John (my sister's husband), a book we know he wants. He searched for it, but couldn't find it in any bookstore. Being fairly resourceful, I managed to find copy, which we'll give to him for Christmas. Borders and Barnes & Noble aren't going profit much off that deal. John, in turn, often buys me a software CD for my computer. Last year it was a "Galaxy Explorer" astronomy program. Star finder. Hubble telescope photos. Lots of moving graphics. About $10.00 off the rack at Best Buy. We're giving my sister Pat a couple of CDs that we know she wants.

Most of the Christmas gifts Barbara and I give are of that nature: we buy for a very limited list (close friends and nearby relatives), we stick to small items, and we give what we're pretty sure they're about to buy for themselves anyway.

The kind of gifts we exchange with friends and relatives are generally—   Well, let me give you a couple of examples. Our friend Phoebe makes unique, one-of-a-kind jewelry, and is very good at it. She usually gives Barbara a pin or a pair of earrings or something like that, and she usually gives me a big box full of several kinds of cookies that she bakes herself. Barbara psychs out what Phoebe might like and gets it for her. Often a selection of soaps and lotions. Things like that. Generally small stuff. Personal stuff. And usually not very expensive stuff. And since everybody already has a lot of stuff, we usually try to give each other consumables. Sometimes it will be something like tickets for a concert or a play. Not something that's going to wind up in a closet or in the basement.

I can't remember the exact figure, but some news commentator mentioned the average amount the pundits figured people would spend for Christmas gifts this year. It occurred to me at the time that Barbara and I would probably be spending about a tenth of that, if that much. And it ain't because we're just plain cheap. It's because we're judicious and we're not inclined to unhinge our brains and follow the herd into bankruptcy. And, happily, the friends and relatives we do exchange gifts with are equally judicious.   

We don't drink Coke or Pepsi either.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Join the Christmas Resistance Movement!
From: MMario
Date: 09 Dec 04 - 02:16 PM

Yet, every year, you cave in and go shopping

no - not really. I probably give more presents thorughout the year then I do at Christmas. Definately give more EXPENSIVE gifts at other times of the year.

Subject: RE: BS: Join the Christmas Resistance Movement!
From: Peace
Date: 09 Dec 04 - 02:10 PM

I am a charter member. I don't mind people who do, and I don't mind people who don't.

Subject: RE: BS: Join the Christmas Resistance Movement!
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Dec 04 - 01:46 PM

Looks like we're an extremely small minority here, eh?

Subject: RE: BS: Join the Christmas Resistance Movement!
From: Pauline L
Date: 09 Dec 04 - 01:15 PM

Thanks! I needed that.

Subject: BS: Join the Christmas Resistance Movement!
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Dec 04 - 09:11 AM

Here is a blurb from one of the many websites devoted to boycotting the capitalist Christmas traditions of X-tians and non-X-tians alike:

You know holiday shopping is offensive and wasteful. You know Christmas "wish lists" and "gift exchanges" degrade the concept of giving. You know Christmas marketing is a scam, benefiting manufacturers, stores, and huge corporations, while driving individuals into debt. You know this annual consumer frenzy wreaks havoc on the environment, filling landfills with useless packaging and discarded gifts.

Yet, every year, you cave in and go shopping.

The relentless onslaught of advertising exerts constant pressure. So do the unified bleatings of herds of shoppers, who call you "Scrooge" if you fail to enthusiastically join their ritual orgy of consumption. Friends and family needle you with gift requests, store windows beckon with shiny colorful packages, the same "classic" holiday jingles are piped constantly through every speaker in town.

How can you resist?

Join the Christmas Resistance Movement!