BS: Lakeland walkers 'wrong colour'

Subject: RE: BS: Lakeland walkers 'wrong colour'
From: GUEST,heric
Date: 11 Jan 05 - 07:17 PM

I see numbers all over the board. 750,000 in 2004 per USAToday. Quite likely is shrinking, which may explain the variance in estimates.

Subject: RE: BS: Lakeland walkers 'wrong colour'
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 11 Jan 05 - 07:08 PM

I didn't notice you offering any health warning with the link, heric. In fact I'd have said that on balance you sounded approving rather than neutral about it.

The Sierra Club stat is certainly noteworthy, but I'd be wary of reading too much into it. For one thing, I wouldn't be surprised if many single-issue campaigners preferred to promote their conservation agenda through other agencies. For my part I would always give support to Greanpeace ahead of the Sierra Club because I see it as better at campaigning. More imaginative; more effective. Incidentally when I was cycling round Alaska a few years ago, the Sierra Club was claiming to have nearly a million members, and I've seen figures much higher than 550,000 even quite recently. Is it shrinking?

Subject: RE: BS: Lakeland walkers 'wrong colour'
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 11 Jan 05 - 03:34 PM

Surely all 550,000 of them are in a minority, by virtue of being concerned about conservation.

Subject: RE: BS: Lakeland walkers 'wrong colour'
From: GUEST,heric
Date: 11 Jan 05 - 03:17 PM

Peter, thanks for that vociferous ejaculation of overstated generalisations and opinion. I did wish that the writer in the example was not so bent on ethinc disparagement, but was intending only to give you a sample of what has had a huge impact on the traditional "conservation" lobbyists in this country, in line with your current issue. The most interesting point, to my mind, was that "Only 7% of the Sierra Club's 550,000 members are minorities of any kind."   Take from it what you will, or nothing, at your preference.

Subject: RE: BS: Lakeland walkers 'wrong colour'
From: Grab
Date: 10 Jan 05 - 11:41 AM

I did. They said "maaauuh" and "muurrr" respectively and crapped on the questionaire.   Surprisingly though they were all unanimous in those opinions, so if anyone could translate "maaauuh" from Sheepish and "muurrr" from Oxo then they could be a useful voting bloc...

Subject: RE: BS: Lakeland walkers 'wrong colour'
From: Hand-Pulled Boy
Date: 10 Jan 05 - 11:31 AM

As usual no one thinks to ask the sheep and cattle their opinion regarding morauding riff raff all over their land, especially the 'middle class' white ones.

Subject: RE: BS: Lakeland walkers 'wrong colour'
From: greg stephens
Date: 10 Jan 05 - 11:20 AM

A lot of people work hard in driving some sort of wedge between "indigenous culture" and "multi-culturalism" (or other shorthand terms like "immigrants" or "bogus asylum-seekers"). There doesn't have to be a conflict, you know.I've just had the pleasure of having one of my records of highly traditional English music publicly selected as an ideal introduction to Enlish stuff for someone who hates English folk-music. And I am simulataneously (well, alternate days) working on a follow-up trad English recording, and working on a multi-cultural immigrant project in Stoke. There is no war in my head between these two activities.
    I fully appreciate that if you see "mutli-cutlural" arts funding exclusively going to Bangladeshi urban rappers and precious little going to backstreet whites in Workington you should sit up and take notice: and maybe apply for some money yourself if you have a good scheme. But don't try to drive peole apart, when we could be having enjoyable get-togethers.

Subject: RE: BS: Lakeland walkers 'wrong colour'
From: GUEST,manitas
Date: 10 Jan 05 - 08:55 AM

If these guides are all volunteers anyway why can't they keep on doing it off their own bat?

I should imagine that these days they will need insurance and training in risk-assessment etc. Someone will aslos have to organise schedules, advertising, routes and meeting places etc. Even volunteer labour comes with overheads.

Subject: RE: BS: Lakeland walkers 'wrong colour'
From: GUEST,Peter K (guesting while mudcat.org is down)
Date: 10 Jan 05 - 08:15 AM

Heric, that's a spectacularly shallow and blinkered assessment by any reckoning, yet even that article has to concede that the US has great swathes of land that would actually benefit from increased population. (Population density in the US, in relation to resources and habitable land is exceptionally low.) Here's a revealing extract:

If immigrants tended to come from cultures that shared a green-orientation with us, like Germany and Japan, or if they tended to be well-educated like the typical Sierra Club member, they'd pose less of a threat to the environment. However, most immigrants today tend to be poorly educated, and originating in societies that put little emphasis on conservation.

Latin Americans have shown a positive disregard for environmentalism as evidenced by their tendency toward littering and driving smog-belching old junkers.

Instead of spouting ignorant generalisations of that sort, the author should acknowledge that the American nation, collectively, is the biggest anti-conservation factor on earth. The notion that the US has any kind of "green-orientation" to share with Germany, Japan or anywhere else, is just laughable.

Subject: RE: BS: Lakeland walkers 'wrong colour'
From: GUEST,heric
Date: 09 Jan 05 - 08:38 PM

Don't let me track mud into this British phenomenon, but some of you may find enlightening this short article which addresses the huge (and continuing) impact immigration has had on "conservation" and wildlands politics in the United States over the past several years.

Subject: RE: BS: Lakeland walkers 'wrong colour'
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 09 Jan 05 - 08:17 PM

If these guides are all volunteers anyway why can't they keep on doing it off their own bat?

The stuff about "why is it all for these ethnic minoritities, lots of poor people are ethnic English" just carries on the spin put on this in the thread heading - it's pretty clear that the declared groups they are supposed to be trying to work with includes such people. After all most inner city children and people with disabilities in England are ethnically English.

If English traditions are neglkected in the educational syllabus, and they clearly are in a lot of places, I suspect that that just reflects the fact that the people drawing you such syllabuses are pig ignorant about such stuff, rather than particularly prejudiced against it.

Subject: RE: BS: Lakeland walkers 'wrong colour'
From: Grab
Date: 09 Jan 05 - 06:48 PM

Just realised, I'd given all those reasons for why it's mainly white, middle-aged walkers on the hills, but nothing about the decision. Utterly bonkers. See, if these well-heeled white middle-age middle-class families want a walk, £3 a head is well within their limits. Get a minimum of 10 people together, allow £10 for petrol for the National Trust Landie getting there (all the walkers can of course transport themselves), and the Trust is instantly £20 in profit.

There's actually a reasonable amount already goes into getting minorities onto the hills - every youth group goes out of their way to attract minorities, and every youth group generally has walking trips on a regular basis. I don't doubt it needs a bit more effort, bcos any walker can see (from the colour of the people on the hills) that the message is taking a while to get across, so by all means they should try some other stuff there. But there's no sense in ditching their prime user base to do so.

However, I can't see any great loss in freebie magazines, slide shows and farm visits - these aren't so likely to get people onto the hills, so by all means axe them. There's enough working/museum farms around for that. The only thing that annoys me is cancelling guided walks, which are an invaluable way of getting people out on the hills in safety.

Graham.

Subject: RE: BS: Lakeland walkers 'wrong colour'
From: jacqui.c
Date: 09 Jan 05 - 05:48 PM

Sometimes it is useful to have a guide to take you around an unfamiliar area. Not everybody is a s adventurous as Wainwright and probably appreciate being given more information about the area they are walking in than they might find out for themselves. I can't see that it's really any different than having a guided tour round the Tower of London or any other historical monument. Since these guides are all volunteers and obviously take part in the programme for the enjoyment that they get from telling others about their own patch why does this have to stop?

I would suggest that the people who take advantage of this facility are probably paying taxes anyway - why should they not benefit from some of that money in this way?

Subject: RE: BS: Lakeland walkers 'wrong colour'
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 09 Jan 05 - 12:26 PM

I don't support organisations like the British National Party, or other racist groups, but sometimes you have to admit, they have a point.
Speak for yourself Liz. I would not myself "admit" any such mealy-mouthed rubbish.

Let's keep in mind that what is at issue in the Lake District is the question of guided tours. Nothing else. Most walkers in the Lake District manage fine on their own. Why can't the "white middles-class" types who traipe along behind guides do the same? Would Wainwright never have found his way on to (and off) the fells without volunteer rangers to hold his hand?

You could do with a bigger peg than this to hang your racist colours on, Liz. Heaven knows there are plenty of daft "politically correct" decisions to choose from. But daft as they are, they are mostly the result of ham-fisted application of good intentions, and should be seen in the wider context of a society in which racism, and an irrational fear of being swamped by immigrants, is still deeply ingrained. (This in a nation that has happily exported its own population to the far corners of the world, and which grew rich herding humans, like cattle, from one country to another.)

Subject: RE: BS: Lakeland walkers 'wrong colour'
From: Megan L
Date: 09 Jan 05 - 11:09 AM

Strange all the talk has been about freedom and discrimination. The forgoten fact is that the majority of heart attacks occur among the white middle aged, surely the more of them that can be encouraged to take up walking in a safe manner (properly equiped and guided) the more money can be saved from the health budget, and more lives saved.

Subject: RE: BS: Lakeland walkers 'wrong colour'
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 09 Jan 05 - 08:06 AM

This does not seem to include the many indigenous members of the population who could not afford to visit the lakes. Why is this?

Because the government does not often hand out money for helping the indigenous population enjoy its own land... it gives out from a seemingly bottomless pot to those groups who have only the merest suggestion of 'ethnic' or 'multi-cultural' or 'refugee' content in their mission statements. In the bid to encourage multi-culturialism and toleration, the government is running the risk of alienating the indigenous population of this country. I don't support organisations like the British National Party, or other racist groups, but sometimes you have to admit, they have a point.

A case in point: A Northern school in a very mixed race area, started 'traditional dance' classes. Money was provided to bring in a large Banghra dance troupe, an Asian dance teacher was employed and several other Mid and Far Eastern Asian dance methods were taught. When one of the teachers at the school suggested some traditional English dances, he was told there was nothing in the teaching notes to provide for English dances, neither was there the money or resources to look for any. He ended up taking in his dance kit and teaching some morris dances for nothing. Apparently the children were enthralled - they'd seen all the Asian dances in their home life, but had never seen morris dancing.

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: Lakeland walkers 'wrong colour'
From: jacqui.c
Date: 08 Jan 05 - 06:52 PM

From what I have read this ruling would have affected programmes already in place to enhance a visit by anyone to the Lake District. The people involved were all volunteers and the cost of the programmes appears to have been relatively small.

Why is it felt that 'white middle class middle aged people' should not be given this facility? Is there any evidence to support the contention that, if the Lake District was made more accessible to minority groups that they would wish to go there? Who says that these groups do not go to places such as this as they feel that it is not their preserve?

There is probably a large majority of the total UK population who have not been and have no wish to go to the area. There seems to be an emphasis placed on minority groups being encouraged. This does not seem to include the many indigenous members of the population who could not afford to visit the lakes. Why is this?

Subject: RE: BS: Lakeland walkers 'wrong colour'
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 08 Jan 05 - 06:37 PM

Comparably the refusal to recognise, value, or preserve minor highways other than bridleways or footpaths.

Subject: RE: BS: Lakeland walkers 'wrong colour'
From: greg stephens
Date: 08 Jan 05 - 02:51 PM

I am normally with anyone having a laugh at PC gone mad, etc, etc, but I can see the rationale for this decision I think. If you have limited resources, assess what targets you want to hit. Then figure out how to hit them. Let's face it, as a group, in general, white middle class people will have a a bit of an idea how to get it together to go for a walk by Coniston. People from Kurdish and Liberian origin living in poverty in Stoke-on-Trent won't. Which is why I have been involved in taking groups of such people to make music and walk in the Lake District. My white educated middle-class friends already know how to do this, so I dont need to help them.
    And for useful background information, listen to a copy of "A Trip to the Lakes" by the Boat Band. A truly excellent record, and competitively priced. Has nothing to do with the ethnic origins of fell-walkers, but has got many top-notch traditional Cumbrian tunes. The tenor banjo playing is particularly inspiring.

Subject: RE: BS: Lakeland walkers 'wrong colour'
From: Grab
Date: 08 Jan 05 - 01:04 PM

Dave, you certainly don't need transport to walk round your local area. But for getting to Cumbria? For that you need a car. For that matter, getting to just about any "interesting" walking you need a car. Theres's a difference between a stroll round the park and a hike up Helvellyn (and people who don't think there is are regularly stretchered off the hills by the Mountain Rescue ;-)

I can catch a bus to a national park for £2.90.

From Salford, presumably the Peak District. Last time I was in Castleton, there were four buses a day in Hope Valley IIRC. And trains didn't stop that often. Hope Valley is lucky in that, having both trains and buses. Most isolated areas, it's two buses a day and that's it, and that's if you're lucky and the bus service hasn't been axed.

And what the hell has colour got to do with walking???

In itself, absolutely bugger all. But if you're black or Asian, it does increase the chances that your parents weren't brought up with walking as a pastime, which increases the chances that you weren't. If your parents were white Americans, again there's good odds that walking as a pastime wouldn't have been passed down. It's culture, not colour.

It's not a criticism, it's just an observation. I don't think you would contradict me if I said "you're more likely to play an instrument if your parents were musical", would you? So I don't see why the same shouldn't be equally valid for other activities.

Stop making the ridiculous assumption that only black people are poor or oppressed. It is not only wrong but it is also condescending to black people.

I'm not making that assumption. But I am saying that if you're black, you're more likely to have a lower income and/or live in an inner city than if you were white, just per the stats.

Graham.

Subject: RE: BS: Lakeland walkers 'wrong colour'
From: Blowzabella
Date: 07 Jan 05 - 07:52 PM

Call me Mrs Cynical, but I think this whole thing has more to do with acquiring funding than with 'holding out a hand' to under-represented groups. I don't know for sure, but I strongly suspect that the Lake District will have been receiving lots and lots of funding from pots of money to help the area recover, after foot and mouth.

As these things tend to work in three year cycles, I further suspect that the pot they had previously been receiving said funding from, might well have run out, or they have become ineligible for some beaurocratic reason.   

And so they have found a new pot - like Arts Centres who look to 'expand their audience base' by 'programming' for age or gender or cultural specific sectors of the 'community'. It is a way of acquiring money.

('community' has, in my opinion, become the most over-used word today - I hate driving past signs which say 'Community School' or 'Community Hospital' - what on earth does it mean?? - pet rant - sorry)

Subject: RE: BS: Lakeland walkers 'wrong colour'
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 07 Jan 05 - 05:08 PM

I don't for a minute undertsand why standing on the top of anything, Cat Bells, Helsby Hill, the edge of the Grande Canyon, Skiddaw is so inspiring and why I want to turn around and hug somebody from all of us homosapiens and say this is just one of the best things this side of a.............

........ but get to the top of a pointy thing and that's the way it is! When people came from other, often dangerous, places to live here, they have to go to the Downfall on Kinder, do I really have to explain that to anybody?

Subject: RE: BS: Lakeland walkers 'wrong colour'
From: John Routledge
Date: 07 Jan 05 - 04:56 PM

The people who wouldn't be seen dead walking in the Lake District are also under-represented :0)

Subject: RE: BS: Lakeland walkers 'wrong colour'
From: Sorcha
Date: 07 Jan 05 - 04:19 PM

Hey, at least you have intersting places to walk to! I don't!

Subject: RE: BS: Lakeland walkers 'wrong colour'
From: TheBigPinkLad
Date: 07 Jan 05 - 04:09 PM

Hi Stu

I'm speaking generally here, and I accept I cannot readily offer source reports, but in one I read shortly after the foot and mouth disaster which offered discussion on ways to help the countryside recover, one of the things that came up in during immigrant interviews was that many listed 'the beautiful countryside' as being something that attracted them to the UK. I think the very idea of it as much as hills, fields and rivers per se. But what they find in reality is it is very much the domain of that class (I hate to use that word) of people mentioned in the article (i.e. white, middle class, over 50). I'm not suggesting it has in any way been kept deliberately from any other group, just this is the way it is. People from outside one group very often feel discouraged from trying something where they may not 'fit in.'

I mention immigrants because the discussion I read was focussed on them; however, the target group mentioned in the Guardian article includes people of colour, inner city kids and those with disabilities. I don't know if any has 'asked to join the club.' I would hardly expect them to--anyone who belongs to any minority knows the difficulties of addressing such issues. This is where a positive move on the part of those on the inside is helpful. Hold out a hand and offer a welcome to folks who would enjoy being part of the countryside scene.

And if the government is spending money on such a project, and those goals are not met, why the surprise when the funding is pulled? I have every sympathy with the guides who offer their time gratis, but they represent the tip of an expensive iceberg.

I read today that there may be a reprieve anyway. I hope those in a position to make a difference view this as an extended opportunity to include those target groups--and all Britons-- in the pleasures of enjoying the countryside rather than a victory of overly-PC bureuacrats.

Phew.

Subject: RE: BS: Lakeland walkers 'wrong colour'
From: s&r
Date: 07 Jan 05 - 03:43 PM

Isn't the question missing the point - if any individuals or groups of people want to go to the lakes, what do they feel prevents them? If they don't want to go to the lakes, why should they be persuaded to? Have any of the people who are missing out (according to someone's interpretation of the use of the lakes) asked to be allowed into the club?
Pink Lad - who are the they that you speak of, and on what do you base your understanding of their reasons?

I'm not taking issue here - just lost in this thread

Stu

Subject: RE: BS: Lakeland walkers 'wrong colour'
From: TheBigPinkLad
Date: 07 Jan 05 - 03:26 PM

Thanks Les! At last, a voice from one who can see beneath the surface. As someone who has to defend seemingly (and yes, often truly) idiotic government decisions, I have to point out that the intent was to make the countryside accessible to certain groups. They WANT to go into the countryside but are uncomfortable doing so because it seems to be wholly-owned by another group. It's not because they can't afford the bus fare. The money poured into the program (your taxes) has been deemed a waste as it has not achieved the goal. Now have a rethink from that perspective.

Subject: RE: BS: Lakeland walkers 'wrong colour'
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 07 Jan 05 - 02:21 PM

Ok I am probably wasting my time but............

The 'Lake Distict National Park' decides to encourage people to go to the Lake Distict and walk. It counts who comes and notices that certain groups of people are under represented compared with the population as a whole and some groups are over represented.

Maybe it does nothing then a few years later notices that nothing has changed. Who should it encourage? Those who disproportionately come or those who disproportionately don't.

If it is the case that middle class, middle aged people seek guides why don't they join the Ramblers Association? More to the point Do they really need anymore than Wainright and a bit of commonsense?

Many institutions in this country show an underrepresentation of ethnic minorities. Sometimes this matters and sometimes it doesn't. We need to know which is which and decide what to do. It wont be simple but it is important.

Subject: RE: BS: Lakeland walkers 'wrong colour'
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 06 Jan 05 - 06:58 PM

Oh, sorry, Grab. Bollocks. Why do you need transport, cheap or otherwise, to go walking? I can walk round Salford from my front door. I live in the 'inner city' but I can walk to a green area in 5 minutes. I can catch a bus to a national park for £2.90.

And what the hell has colour got to do with walking??? Come on. Make a bit of sense please. My Grandparemts walked from Russia to Poland in 1936 because of the Stalinist purges of non-Russian settlers. They were white. They were European. Why should their experience put me off walking? What has it got to do with colour anyway? Stop making the ridiculous assumption that only black people are poor or oppressed. It is not only wrong but it is also condescending to black people.

Give us a break from this ludicrous ethnically correctism that is ruining race relations.

DtG.

Subject: RE: BS: Lakeland walkers 'wrong colour'
From: Linda Kelly
Date: 06 Jan 05 - 06:56 PM

It's rather like the publishers of Trainspotters weekly cancelling the magazine because only trainspotters read it ....

Subject: RE: BS: Lakeland walkers 'wrong colour'
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 06 Jan 05 - 06:45 PM

If people from minority groups wanted to walk in the Lakes then they would.

You and I do it, John. We are from the minority group of white English folk singers.

From extensive observation very few actually do.

From my extensive observations the majority of fell walker ARE a minority;-)

Cheers

Dave

Subject: RE: BS: Lakeland walkers 'wrong colour'
From: Grab
Date: 06 Jan 05 - 01:51 PM

Thoughts on that.

Middle-aged: Because walking is cheap and uses up a whole day for very little money. So it's ideal for parents with kids, who are (surprise) mostly middle-aged. Why no younger walkers on these tours? Well, younger walkers are usually out doing their own thing, and usually over harder routes. Walking tours are mainly aimed at casual walkers, so you get families with kids, or retired people, or people who used to walk but haven't for a while. Middle-aged again.

Middle-class: Now that's a little more surprising. But it's quite easy to explain if you look at transport. In Ewan McColl's day, there was plenty of cheap transport into the hills. These days it's all gone - one or two buses a day is standard for most places, so if you live more than a couple of miles from the hills and you've not got a car then you basically can't go walking. But that's what you get when you sell off public services like buses and trains, and run them for profit instead of as a service for public benefit.

White: You don't have to do too much walking to see that this is true. The main root cause though has to be that immigrants have often come from areas where walking is a matter of necessity - walking for enjoyment isn't a cultural feature, and indeed could be dangerous. (Or if they've come from America which is the other way round - pedestrians are seen as "second-class citizens" and so walking for enjoyment likewise isn't a cultural feature.) I think most walkers have started off by their parents walking, and that just isn't an element for most non-Europeans. Other walkers start through Scouts, D of E or some other group, and I guess that's where people of non-European origin would start, but ramping up numbers takes generations. Also there's the fact that colour and income are somewhat linked, so the comments on "middle-class" are equally valid.

Graham.

Subject: RE: BS: Lakeland walkers 'wrong colour'
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 05 Jan 05 - 08:05 PM

Now why do you think the nameless GUEST focused on the colour bit rather than the age or the class bit?

Subject: RE: BS: Lakeland walkers 'wrong colour'
From: John Routledge
Date: 05 Jan 05 - 07:31 PM

If people from minority groups wanted to walk in the Lakes then they would.

From extensive observation very few actually do.

Subject: RE: BS: Lakeland walkers 'wrong colour'
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 05 Jan 05 - 07:21 PM

Yup.... I want the helicopter, the heated tent and the three course meal at every stop! : )

It was not I that suggested that everyone up there was middle classed or middle aged... I just suggested that those who were not MC or MA might not want to go walking up a hill in the wet or fork out for camping gear (and carry it) or B&B prices just to see wide open vistas of green and pleasant land.

Personally, I'd enjoy a walking holiday again.... 3 years ago (bar a few weeks) I was walking up Cader Idris... now I'm lucky if I can make it up the stairs without panting for breath. And I would consider myself neither middle classed nor middle aged. Just not very healthy.

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: Lakeland walkers 'wrong colour'
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 05 Jan 05 - 07:09 PM

Aaaaaarrrrrhhhh. Sorry. I was far to tollerant in the last post. I have just re-read this whole thread and have to comment before my blood pressure goes through the roof. Thet cannot be serious can they? Because they are not attracting blind, one legged, lesbian, lithuanian refugees they are having to close?

And sorry Liz. You are talking complete and utter bollocks. I have met hundreds of people out on the fells and the majority were neither middle class or middle aged. If you start to suggest otherwise I will personaly pay for you and limpet to get up to Glenridding on a wet Febrauary morning for you to walk up the Pike with me. Are you up for it or are you saying that if poor Southern mothers on low incomes cannot be lifted up there by helicopter is is not worth doing;-)

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Lakeland walkers 'wrong colour'
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 05 Jan 05 - 06:57 PM

Liz - It costs bugger all to go walking! There is no need at all to have the designer hiking stuff that some seem to think is necessary. It costs little to get to somewhere where you can go walking. I used to pay 50p to get a coach trip out with the Swinton ramblers. Made my own butties. Used to wear Steel toecap boots that I got cheap coz I was in the building trade and an old canvas rucksack my dad brought back fron the army. Seriously.

People can't do it now? If it's not handed them on a plate it's not worth it? I was far from middle class or middle aged whan I first walked up Scafell. So was Wainright.

What is your point?

Dave

Subject: RE: BS: Lakeland walkers 'wrong colour'
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 05 Jan 05 - 06:45 PM

Could it perhaps be that only middle aged, middle class people have the time and desire to go walking over the moors? Or the money to afford the camping equipment or B&B costs there?

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: Lakeland walkers 'wrong colour'
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 05 Jan 05 - 01:58 PM

I've got a sloution-
just tell the white volounteers to black up, they'll look black, at least from a distance.

Subject: RE: BS: Lakeland walkers 'wrong colour'
From: C-flat
Date: 05 Jan 05 - 11:17 AM

There's no such thing as positive discrimination, just discrimination.
If it wasn't so ridiculously sad it would be hilarious.

C-flat.

Subject: RE: BS: Lakeland walkers 'wrong colour'
From: Metchosin
Date: 05 Jan 05 - 11:04 AM

Interesting, years ago the Park Naturalist programme was gutted here because BC Parks found it could "hire" volunteers, mostly retired people, particularly in more publicly accessible parks, rather than pay Parks staff to do the job. I'm not certain what the entire motive is in the UK, but here it is usually the "bottom line".

Subject: RE: BS: Lakeland walkers 'wrong colour'
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 05 Jan 05 - 10:11 AM

I read this yesterday, and am still in shock, what a load of effing crap. I still can't work out how it costs them just over £8 a head for each walker when the guides are all volunteers.
Giok

Subject: BS: Lakeland walkers 'wrong colour'
From: GUEST
Date: 05 Jan 05 - 10:04 AM

Just when you think you have seen it all, yet more lunacy from the loony PC brigade.

Lakeland walkers 'wrong colour'

The Lake District National Park is to axe the free guided walks carried out by over 100 volunteer rangers because they attract only "middle-aged, middle-class white people".

The scenic walks, which introduce thousands of tourists to the fells each year, are being scrapped as part of a three-year plan to bring more ethnic minorities, inner-city children and the disabled to the area.

The national park's authority said it would be able to meet Government targets to attract minority groups and attract more funding.

It said it had also taken the "hard" decision to reduce significantly the services provided by the park's 10 information centres.

Among activities facing the axe is a programme of 900 events run by 300 rangers. These include a magazine, informative talks, slide shows and children's farm visits.

The decision has "astounded" volunteers who give up their time to carry out the walks.

They say the authority is obsessed with hitting targets and that the move smacks of political correctness. They also say that thousands of novice walkers among the 12 million tourists who visit the park every year could now be put in danger on unfamiliar terrain.

Full article here http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/mai.../03/ixhome.html


what the????