BS: Road Rage Shooter Linked to NRA

Subject: RE: BS: Road Rage Shooter Linked to NRA
From: GUEST,Billy BeJesus
Date: 18 Dec 02 - 12:38 PM

The fact that Guest/Texas is obviously a raving lunatic shouldn't distract anyone from the fact that he/she is right--As far as I am concerned, the only way anyone takes the Bill of Rights away from me is by prying it from my cold, dead fingers--

Subject: RE: BS: Road Rage Shooter Linked to NRA
From: TIA
Date: 18 Dec 02 - 12:46 PM

Do you, in fact, belong to a "well regulated militia"?

Subject: RE: BS: Road Rage Shooter Linked to NRA
From: GUEST,in Texas
Date: 18 Dec 02 - 01:30 PM

The sheriff of my county has the authority to press me into service in order to preserve the peace. That is the 'well-regulated militia'. It is my obligation to own a gun so that I can carry out my duties if called upon.

You people better wake up. GWBush was the 'states rights' candidate. Going to protect us from big government infringing on the rights of the states. But he has Federalized education with national testing, Federalized religion and brought it under control of government with 'faith-based initiatives' and given us a Gestapo national police for the first time in our history with the Homeland Security Bill. He has opened the borders while saying we are 'at war', and he has initiated a 'shadow government' which completely disregards the constitutional line of succession. These are NOT conservative actions. GWBush is carrying out the dictates of the global banking cartel intent on total seizure of property and the initiation of a repressive world government.

The major infrastructure of the U.S. which has been taken over and 'socialized' over the past century is now being sold off to the big corporations. Corporate fascism. In the end, the corporate fascism of the far-right will be indistinguishable from the Marxism of the far-left. Use your brains. And buy guns.

And look up the USA PATRIOT Act. H.R. 3162 (House Resolution). Section 802, a, 5, A. LOOK IT UP NOW! The new definition of 'domestic terrorism' is any act which '...endangers human life and is a violation of a law of the United States or of any state.' I kid you not. JAYWALKING endangers your life and is a violation of the law. So you can now be arrested, tortured and executed for jaywalking, people!

Subject: RE: BS: Road Rage Shooter Linked to NRA
From: TIA
Date: 18 Dec 02 - 01:37 PM

Guest in Texas -- you are absolutely right, it is scary as hell. I'm Planning to fight it at the ballot box and/or with peaceful civil disobedience. But I'm sure as hell on your team. WAKE UP AMERICA!

Subject: RE: BS: Road Rage Shooter Linked to NRA
From: GUEST,in Texas
Date: 18 Dec 02 - 03:00 PM

The ballot box doesn't work. Two national elections have now been rigged. VNS (Voting News Service) has 'gone down' twice. First, in 2000, it 'went down' in Florida just after Al Gore was declared the winner of the state. When it 'came back up', Bush had won the state. In 2002, the system 'went down' nationwide, and the unpopular Republican party made 'surprising gains' in all areas when the computers 'came back'. At the national level, the elections are rigged by the VNS which is PRE-programmed to count votes. The best thing you can do in your area is to make sure electronic voting is not allowed. There MUST be a paper trail.

As far as civil disobedience...you have to back it up with guns. Bullets or ballots, and we've been denied ballots. Now our illegal government has declared us all terrorists. Fine. Let them enforce it. But you MUST be armed. 3 one-million bed 'relocation facicilities' were commissioned by the U.S. govt. this past summer...bids being accepted. Completion dates slated for January. So there will be three new FEMA concentration camps ready to go next month. We are soon going to see the beginning of mass-relocations, and the people vacated from their land will never see their homes again. I plan to fight for my home. When the U.N. troops come to move me 'for my safety', I plan to delete a few of them 'for my safety'. There is NO OTHER CHOICE.

Sorry I barged into y'alls nice forum here, but I have so many links if any of you are interested....concentration camps in America...

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2002/7/14/214727.shtml

for the English guy...your government orchestrated terrorism...

http://www.prisonplanet.com/archive_mi5terror.html

Warranless Secret Searches in the PATRIOT Act. No more Fourth or Fith Amendment because of this one Section...Go to the link below, type in H.R.3162 and click on one of the choices...choice #3...and go down to Section 213. Warrantless Secret Searches...they can go into your home, take anything they want and never tell you. And jail you if you mention it....And check Section 802 for the definition of 'domestic terrorism'...

http://thomas.loc.gov/

Subject: RE: BS: Road Rage Shooter Linked to NRA
From: GUEST,Claymore
Date: 18 Dec 02 - 03:44 PM

Folks, I think it's time that your doctor ups the dosage and takes away your crayons.

Bobert was nowhere close when he stated that he lived in a backward part of West Virginia. He lives some 10 miles from me, near Harpers Ferry, which for many years was a hippie community before the historical park took over most of the terrain. Jefferson County is the richest county in West Virginia, and is included as part of the Federal Government's pay-scale local parity increase, together with DC and the richest counties in Virginia and Maryland. The median new house price in this county is well over $200,000.

As I have mentioned before, my town of Shepherdstown, WV has been cited several times as the "Most Intelligent Small Town in the Washington Area", with an average education of a four year degree plus one year of graduate school [I have Masters and three additional years of graduate study] for a town of 1,000 residents (due to the presence of Shepherd College within the town limits).

And according to the latest census numbers, 81 percent of this county's residents were not born in West Virginia. Bobert must be down in a really small pocket of poverty, and definitely needs to get out more.


My second comment is far more dangerous. I'm not aware that the "nature versus nurture" arguement has been settled with the finality that, were it applied to groups you tend to advocate for, you would decry the same comment as racism or prejudice (and you would be correct). Need I say more...


And since the laws governing this country, including those which deal with gun possession and sales, tend to be generated and passed by the moderate middle of the Nation's citizenry, I think that the time spent in arguing beliefs with the hooting loonies of both the right and left, is wasted. During my experiences as a hostage negotiator, we would note the indiscrinate use of adjectives during the conversations, as an indication of the lucidity of the suspect. The greater the use of symbolic, rote-learned or contextually inappropriate adjectives, the less the suspect was capable of rational decision-making. If you don't live with them, why make the effort? The best solution for the rational person, is to vote.

Subject: RE: BS: Road Rage Shooter Linked to NRA
From: GUEST,M. A. Pruitt
Date: 18 Dec 02 - 05:20 PM

I used to be an NRA member but let my membership lapse as I found they were not nearly hardcore enough for my tastes. That no doubt makes me a "gun nut", a nice, loaded term that helps the "gun grabbers" (another loaded term, from the other side of the debate) de-humanize me and those who think like me.

So be it.

TIA: Yes, I'm a member of a well-regulated militia and, if you are a male between the ages of 18 and 45, so are you. Read our founders writings on the subject.

Can't remember who posted it but... the fact that a court in the Peoples Republik of Kalifornia decided the 2nd amendment doesn't mean what it says is no surprise to me. And no, the decision won't stand up.

Our Bill Of Rights is not a "choose one from column A, two from column B" document. It was ratified as a whole (the first 10 anyways) and stands as a whole.

Except it's being torn to flinders now. And, though Bush Jr. is indeed a bozo, much of the damage happened during the Clinton reign, so conveniently scapegoating the Shrub is in fashion it is not accurate.

I hasten to add that he is certainly continuing and increasing the lousy trend.

How the anti-2nd forces can stand up and say that "the people" means "all of us" in every amendment *except* the 2nd is a source of constant amazement to me. If I were to assert that "the people" in the 1st amendment *actually* meant only "government sanctioned media organs" the screech from the left would resound from coast-to-coast and the vitriol heaped on me would be staggering.

For all of you I repeat: read our founders words, not just press releases from Rosie O'Donnell (who says *you* can't have a gun for your protection while arming her kid's bodyguard) or Ted Kennedy (who utilizes handguns daily, both at home and work, for personal protection... same as any other congress-critter) or Dianne Feinstein (sp?) (who rants about gun control but has been caught with a pistol in her purse) or any of the other two-faced proponents of *cough*"sensible gun control"*cough*.

Or press releases from any of the more right-wing orgs either. Read what the founders said.

The first "gun control laws" were Jim Crow laws designed to disarm newly freed blacks shortly after the Civil War. They haven't improved since.

It's not about gun control folks, it's about *control*. If you think things are bad in the rights department now, think about how it'll be when the elitist ruling class feels we no longer represent a threat.

I know it's hard but people on both sides of this issue, try to *think*.

I'm gone.

Subject: RE: BS: Road Rage Shooter Linked to NRA
From: Bobert
Date: 18 Dec 02 - 05:40 PM

GUEST, Claymore: Try Mission Road, that little hillbilly heaven holler off Rt 9 just west of Mannings. Ain't no Sheppardstown. Purdy danged, ahhhh, redn*ck. (See how politically correct I can be?).

GUEST, Texas Turnip. While we tend to agree on a lot we still have this little divide. You might want to refresh the ongoning discussion we have a few months back about violent verses non violent political actions on our part. That was right around the time that you were trying to get me to throw a bowling ball thru Boos Hog's window... I don't think we need to rehash that shirmish, do we?

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Road Rage Shooter Linked to NRA
From: TIA
Date: 18 Dec 02 - 05:49 PM

Adamantly *not* a member of a well regulated militia. Registered CO long long ago. Even without the papers, gummint can't begin to force me to touch a gun nor any other weapon, and the founding fathers and mothers would agree.

Subject: RE: BS: Road Rage Shooter Linked to NRA
From: GUEST,in Texas
Date: 18 Dec 02 - 09:12 PM

Bobert...I'm not who you seem to think I am. I just stumbled on this forum yesterday. Not sure what your interaction regarding violent vs. non-violent was, but violence is a way of life. On Sept. 11 we were attacked by our own govt., and they aren't going to stop at that. It was just the opening shot to get us milling around like cattle. Now that we're restless and milling, we'll be stampeded. I have endless links to government and investigative websites if you want to debate whether our government did the Sept. 11 job, but the evidence is overwhelming. And those monsters(who forced people to leap out of hundred story buildings) they can only be stopped with force. Sooner or later, the confrontation is coming. I just hope it can be done with a MINIMUM of violence. That's why we ALL need to be armed. If it comes to shooting, let it be intense and quick.

Claymore...You use the words 'symbolic', 'rote-learned' and 'contextually inappropriate' while describing adjectives. Did it occur to you that you yourself 'rote-learned' those adjectives? So are you capable of making sound decisions after undergoing that indoctrination? You're obviously a cop, and if you're not Federal and are still active, you have a problem on your hands. 650,000 state and local cops in the U.S., and the Feds are going to use you as first-line cannon fodder when they decide to start 'relocating' people. You will have the Feds with their guns at your backs and an armed and angry citizenry that KNOWS what is going on in front of you. You are being set up. Talking about upping medication and taking crayons away from people who care enough about you to point out your predicament won't solve the problem we're facing. The most insane thing a human can say...that he is willing to launch a nuclear war in order to avoid war...should be your guide to the stability of the guy with his finger on the button right now.

Subject: RE: BS: Road Rage Shooter Linked to NRA
From: Bobert
Date: 18 Dec 02 - 09:54 PM

Sorry, GUEST. Had you corn-fused with GUEST. Danged glasses need a cleanin'.

Bobert

p.s. While I'll agree with ya' that the gov't may have had knowledge and allowed the attack to occur, I ain't buying that they pulled this off themselves. And I like a conspiracy theory as much as the next conspiracy loving nutball. But, like I said, it it more beleivable that they might have let enuff stuff fall thru the cracks that allowed this to occur, but more by default than design.

Now I ain't into thinkin' that my few pop guns is much match fir theirs so Iz gonna stick with non violent resistence. Plus, I ain't into usin' guns for anything except the pesky deer that try to mess with my gardens and fir self defense, thank you.

Subject: RE: BS: Road Rage Shooter Linked to NRA
From: NicoleC
Date: 18 Dec 02 - 10:04 PM

Hysterical. "Maw, get mah trusty shotgun! Thar's an Apache helicopter headed thisa way! I know it's pitch dark, but I kin get 'em!"

Subject: RE: BS: Road Rage Shooter Linked to NRA
From: Bobert
Date: 18 Dec 02 - 10:24 PM

Exactly right, Nicole. NEW GUEST seems to think that the over the counter guns are sufficient to take on Apache's.

Man they got better drugs now a days then they had 30 years ago...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Road Rage Shooter Linked to NRA
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Dec 02 - 10:24 PM

Given 8 hours, I could convince any grand jury in the nation that the government committed the September 11 attacks, and it wasn't by accident.

All FBI field agents reported on the hijackers the whole time they were in the country. They were trained by the U.S. military (Pensacola Naval Air Station), they were housed in FBI safe houses, and 5 of the hijackers were pulled aside for random searches on Sept. 11. They were in the country illegally and they were 'Known Associates' of Ossama bin Laden. The airport personell ran their names through the computers, but their bios had mysteriously disappeared from the FBI database. Only the FBI bigwigs could have pulled the names from the computers.

NORAD held the interceptor jets on the ground for 75 minutes when FOUR JETLINERS WENT OFF COURSE at the same time. Unprecendented. The FAA cleared the air corridors for immediate military action, which never came. Interceptor jets reached golfer Payne Stewart's jet in 12 minutes when it depressurized a few years ago, yet 4 jets were allowed to wander over the Eastern U.S. for over an hour. General Ralph E. Eberhart was in charge of NORAD that day. The order to stand down either came from him or his commander...GWBush. Now Eberhart has been rewarded with promotion to commander of NORTHCOM, the new 'North American Unified Military Command'. He is our military dicator. And he is calling for the reversal of Posse Comittatus (the 1878 act which makes it ILLEGAL for military to take part in police actions on U.S. soil).

These people are going to kill, rape and enslave your children. They are going to gas us with Sarin nerve gas (as they already have, if you want the links to government's own sites admitting that), they are going to infest us with smallpox and nuke our cities. They have said all this would happen 'when, not if'. It is a done deal. They are going to kill you and take all you own. If you go passively, history will revile you. Buy guns. Buy guns. Buy guns. Decide later if you want to use them. Decide when they are cutting your child's head off if you have it within you to stand up to these monsters. View some footage of Kofi Annan's million-man-murder if you think you're safe within these borders. Just buy guns and hope they get the message from that simple act. End of sermon.

Subject: RE: BS: Road Rage Shooter Linked to NRA
From: Bobert
Date: 18 Dec 02 - 10:59 PM

Calm down, GUEST!

Okay, lets say that you are right. Let's say that Junior hisself actually ordered this 9/11 attacks.

Now lets get the the pl;ace where you logic just goes out of control.

You think a bunch of pop guns are a match fir the US military? I'm kinda thinking that would be real stupid. You can put that stategy in the "L" column, fir sure... Yeah, it would be suicidal. Just like if Saddam were to say, "Okay, US, meet you out in the middle of the desert!"

Man, you need to get yer thinkerator tuned up, brother ot sister.

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Road Rage Shooter Linked to NRA
From: GUEST,in Texas
Date: 19 Dec 02 - 12:50 AM

You don't have to bring down the Apache...just the pilot.

Troops and cops are compartmentalized. They do their bit of the job and don't know they are feeding the monster. Like the Nazis. Just doing their jobs. But open the eyes of the troops and you have trained warriors coming over to your side.

Half of the Air Force's pilots have applied for discharges. Half. They don't want the forced anthrax vaccine. 50,000 Desert Storm vets have died from that stuff, and the pilots aren't stupid. They know they will die if they are injected. They can take over an Apache at any time if you can deliver one.

Yes. It is SO achievable, that I think our whole traitorous government can be brought to justice before it comes to war. All you have to do is disseminate information. The vermin can't stand the light of day. In their desperation they tried to put a war criminal of Nazi maginitude...Kissinger...in charge of another phony 9-11 coverup. But the American people wouldn't stand for it. Our government of murderers is desperate. A handful of students with laptop computers in Tienamen square set the cause of world government back ten years. The illegal, anti-American government of the U.S. is doomed. All it takes is fortitude, guns and insistence on truth.

Subject: RE: BS: Road Rage Shooter Linked to NRA
From: GUEST,Raedwulf
Date: 19 Dec 02 - 05:47 AM

Give it up, Texas, fer gawd's sake! Oh & skip the abuse pointed in my & the English direction, please. I didn't offer you any. The thread is (or was) about guns, not about races.

Yes I had a look at the link you kindly posted. I read the top article. So what? "Government orchestrated terrorism"? No, I don't think so. There's a difference between trying to infiltrate an agent into a terrorist organisation (yes, your agent has to behave like the terrorists, bit of a no-brainer, that) and originating & orchestrating a terrorist campaign. If the IRA had been a peaceful organisation, MI5 wouldn't have needed an agent behaving in a terrorist fashion (though I daresay they'd still have had an agent in there). And no, they wouldn't have/didn't invent the IRA either to scare us all/take away our rights...

You'll notice that the agent in question had no problem with what he was doing up to the point where MI5 decided he was expendable. And the reasons attributed for that decision, whilst rather calculated & nasty, are coldly logical. In fact, he doesn't to me seem to have a problem with them now, except that they won't give him what he's reasonably asking for.

Sometimes govt has to break it's own laws on a small scale to preserve them on a large scale. Of course it does on the quiet because it knows damn well that very few people would understand the necessity. If you were given the task of killing one innocent person, knowing that if you failed to do so, a thousand innocents would die, what would you choose? It's nasty, but life's like that sometimes.

If you're prepared to throw around phrases like "Government orchestrated terrorism" on the basis of that story, I think we'll have to agree to differ. From my p-o-v, your version of logical analysis is seriously flawed. Either that, or you're deliberately misrepresenting things which would be 10 times worse. I don't think you are, BTW, I think you're suffering from the former. Or in the words of various other posters, I'm afraid I think you're a nut! Sorry! *g*

Most of your continuing remarks about England, BTW, remain substantially untrue. I can quite happily go and speak my mind on a street corner (or even Speaker's Corner, if it comes to that), we haven't lost our rights or our guns (since most people never owned one, nor did we have the 'right' to own one), cameras don't watch me everywhere, & the govt hasn't "admitted it's been behind most of the bombings in Britain over the past 20 years" AFAIK. Etcetera.

Subject: RE: BS: Road Rage Shooter Linked to NRA
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Dec 02 - 12:17 PM

There are none so enslaved as those who believe themselves free.

The English turned themselves over to the Nazis years ago. I mean, your queen is married to a German nazi. Our Bush family wannabes only eat off Adolph Hitler's silverware at Yale's Skull and Bones compound in their pathetic attempts to be like real nazis, but your royal family has actually integrated itself with the Reich.

And if you don't want to see the obvious in a simple article, that's too bad. Your government murders its own citizens to create the need for law-enforcement.