BS: Terrorist Cat Stevens Booted...

Subject: BS: Terrorist Cat Stevens Booted...
From: Bobert
Date: 21 Sep 04 - 10:51 PM

Say it ain't so but I just heard a report that a plane carrying Cat Stevens was held up some 6 hours while Tom Ridge and the boys decided what to do with the terrorist, Cat Stevens... Hmmmmm? Well, you all can breath easy. Cat wasn't allowed into the United States so I reckon you all can let the family pets back out now...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorist Cat Stevens Booted...
From: wysiwyg
Date: 21 Sep 04 - 11:01 PM

It's dangerous out there. I'm being followed by a moonshadow, myself.

~S~

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorist Cat Stevens Booted...
From: Teresa
Date: 21 Sep 04 - 11:05 PM

And this is because he has become a Muslim and has a Muslim name?

In my mind, totally unrelated to the last statement: Was he one who encouraged the fatwa against Solmon Rushdi?

Well, all of these issues kinda get blurred together, and we have more witch-hunting. [sigh] :(

T

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorist Cat Stevens Booted...
From: Teresa
Date: 21 Sep 04 - 11:15 PM

CNN story

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorist Cat Stevens Booted...
From: wysiwyg
Date: 21 Sep 04 - 11:30 PM

He went to Maine, too! Dang! Everybody's goin' to Maine!

~S~

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorist Cat Stevens Booted...
From: katlaughing
Date: 22 Sep 04 - 12:03 AM

Unfuckingbelievable!

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorist Cat Stevens Booted...
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 22 Sep 04 - 12:20 AM

Google Search on Cat Stevens.

Many years ago now when he converted to Islam he held beliefs that were contradictory to mainstream American views. I'll have to read more about him to say if he's still as obnoxious as he seemed before. I think the main thing he did was suggest that the fatwa against Salmon Rushdie (for writing The Satanic Verses) was reasonable.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorist Cat Stevens Booted...
From: mack/misophist
Date: 22 Sep 04 - 12:21 AM

So, basicly, the government didn't give a reason. Not suprising.

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorist Cat Stevens Booted...
From: Kent Davis
Date: 22 Sep 04 - 01:39 AM

Let me get this straight. A man publically supports those who encourage the murder of a novelist. When criticized for this, he says he didn't mean to encourage free-lance murder...only execution, by a proper Islamic court, for blasphemy ...which court, not incidentally, would find much of our recent "Is there a god?" thread blasphemous. And if the U.S. doesn't let him in, it's a "witch-hunt"?
I thought the problem with witch hunts was that harmless people were condemned. I assume most readers of this post consider Rushdie harmless. So wouldn't that make Yosuf Islam the witch hunter? And wouldn't that put the U.S. in the role of Thomas Brattle, who helped stop the Salem witch trials?

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorist Cat Stevens Booted...
From: Teresa
Date: 22 Sep 04 - 01:57 AM

Well, actually, I was being disingenuous, even to myself.

I don't like witch hunts of any stripe.

However, if the U.S. won't let him in, they should just come out with it and let him and the public know why. Why wait a dozen years for an excuse?

I haven't read much about him ... will do so before posting any more to this thread. But perhaps he has had a change of heart. Take Malcolm X, for example. He was infamous for his anti-white speeches, but the one that moved me to tears was the one in which he talked about seeing blue-eyed pilgrims going to Mecca, people of every color.

I'll look into this issue some more. I'm intrigued at this point.

T

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorist Cat Stevens Booted...
From: dianavan
Date: 22 Sep 04 - 02:01 AM

Other than the fact that he is Muslim, why was he arrested?

d

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorist Cat Stevens Booted...
From: GUEST,Clint Keller
Date: 22 Sep 04 - 02:14 AM

"Let me get this straight. A man publically supports those who encourage the murder of a novelist. When criticized for this, he says he didn't mean to encourage free-lance murder...only execution, by a proper Islamic court, for blasphemy ...which court, not incidentally, would find much of our recent "Is there a god?" thread blasphemous. And if the U.S. doesn't let him in, it's a "witch-hunt"?"

He didn't convict nor execute Rushdie. It's all words. I believe Ann Coulter has said that some liberals should be killed; how does that grab you?

clint

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorist Cat Stevens Booted...
From: Teresa
Date: 22 Sep 04 - 02:30 AM

ha ha ha :> of course, "officials were unable to say" ... why he was being arrested. Same old story over and over again for these arrests, IMO.

Here is an article that quotes Yusef ali/Cat Stevens.

Nationmaster.com It has links to sources and seems balanced. Judge for yourselves. This all makes my belly squirm.

T

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorist Cat Stevens Booted...
From: GUEST,SueB
Date: 22 Sep 04 - 03:05 AM

It doesn't make any sense. How could he walk away from the music?
Bobby Fischer I can almost understand - a boy genius who became increasingly unstable as he became older, his grasp on reality becoming increasingly tenuous. But Cat Stevens? What happened? Is it possible that this person, whose records were some of the very first records I ever owned and loved, could be a danger to me now? Did he have a traumatic brain injury? I knew that he converted to Islam, and that he gave up music, and I never understood it, but the quotes in Teresa's link just make me feel unbearably sad and at a loss. Somebody should send that man a guitar.

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorist Cat Stevens Booted...
From: katlaughing
Date: 22 Sep 04 - 03:09 AM

From one of many sites accessed through google news:

Recently, though, Islam has criticized terrorist acts, including the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks and the school seizure in Beslan, Russia, earlier this month that left more than 300 dead, nearly half of them children.

In a statement on his Web site, he wrote, "Crimes against innocent bystanders taken hostage in any circumstance have no foundation whatsoever in the life of Islam and the model example of Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him."

After the Sept. 11 attacks, Islam issued a statement saying: "No right thinking follower of Islam could possibly condone such an action: The Quran equates the murder of one innocent person with the murder of the whole of humanity."

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorist Cat Stevens Booted...
From: fat B****rd
Date: 22 Sep 04 - 03:23 AM

I think I'll just carry on enjoying "Mona Bone Jakon"

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorist Cat Stevens Booted...
From: Little Hawk
Date: 22 Sep 04 - 03:25 AM

It's really quite silly to engage in a witchhunt against either Salman Rushdie or Yusif Islam. Neither one of them is what I would call dangerous. They just have opinions, that's all. (In dictatorships it's considered illegal and unacceptable to have the "wrong" opinions. Hmmmm...)

To fight intolerant fanatics by imitating them strikes me as self-defeating...and contrary to the ideals embodied in the US Constitution.

It isn't a high profile person like Cat Stevens (Yusif Islam) who is dangerous, because everyone knows who he is. :-) It's some guy you've never heard of who comes into the country with forged documents who is dangerous, for heaven's sake! Like, Duh! (as the Valley Girl said...)

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorist Cat Stevens Booted...
From: Teresa
Date: 22 Sep 04 - 03:28 AM

The heck of it is: he was allowed here in May to promote a dVD of his music in the 70s. Human nature is a strange thing.

T

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorist Cat Stevens Booted...
From: Roger the Skiffler
Date: 22 Sep 04 - 03:34 AM

I think that is the crime, Teresa, re-releasing "Morning has broken" on a defenceless new generation!

RtS

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorist Cat Stevens Booted...
From: mooman
Date: 22 Sep 04 - 04:04 AM

This story, frequently perpetuated on the Mudcat that Cat Stevens supported the fatwa against Salman Rushdie, is a myth and I have challenged it before.

Once again, here is Yusuf Islam's own account of that episode. He may have been a naive young Moslem at the time but he certainly never supported terrorism or the fatwa.

I might add that I am no apologist for terrorism nor even a big fan of Cat Stevens but I do like to see a fair debate.

Peace

moo

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorist Cat Stevens Booted...
From: The Shambles
Date: 22 Sep 04 - 04:44 AM

I might add that I am no apologist for terrorism nor even a big fan of Cat Stevens but I do like to see a fair debate.

So do I but I fear both of us may be unlikely to see one take place on NEW Mudcat.

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorist Cat Stevens Booted...
From: Wolfgang
Date: 22 Sep 04 - 06:45 AM

It was good to read his own words. The man is extremely naive or insincere. I personally wouldn't trust him any more than a 'Christian' who cites the selected hard quotes from the OT and then says he only has quoted the book.

He'd be on my personal watch list (admitting that I could be very wrong with that assessment). I like his music very much (then and now), but the feeling that a superb musician or sports champion or actor could do no wrong just because we feel a superficial familiarity with this person can be very misleading.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorist Cat Stevens Booted...
From: Pied Piper
Date: 22 Sep 04 - 07:03 AM

After the Sept. 11 attacks, Islam issued a statement saying: "No right thinking follower of Islam could possibly condone such an action: The Quran equates the murder of one innocent person with the murder of the whole of humanity."

"Islam" Who? What? Where?

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorist Cat Stevens Booted...
From: GUEST,Jim Knowledge
Date: 22 Sep 04 - 07:54 AM

I `ad that Cat Stevens in my cab the other day. `e said, take me to the Afghanistan Embassy please. I said, you claiming asylum over there then? `e said, nah, I`m just placing my Chrisatmas order for some "poppies"!!
What am I like?

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorist Cat Stevens Booted...
From: GUEST
Date: 22 Sep 04 - 08:48 AM

He is in good company on the watch list, though. Ted Kennedy is on it too, and hasn't been able to find out why either. Not even Tom Ridge knows why Ted Kennedy is on the watch list (he he he). Apparently, Tom Ridge also doesn't have the power or authority to get Ted Kennedy off the watch list either. (another he he he).

This "political enemies of the administration" watch list is no different than "political enemies of the administration" was when Dick Gaughan, et al were banned from the US for having "communist" (or if you are Irish) "terrorist" ties.

Political enemies lists are political enemies lists. Why are people so surprised at all this? It's been going on for a whole lot longer than since 9/11 and the Bush administration.

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorist Cat Stevens Booted...
From: GUEST,SueB
Date: 22 Sep 04 - 09:45 AM

Well at one in the morning it was all too much for me, especially the picture I saw of him on BBC online - what happened! He used to be so damn cute! Doesn't seem so dire this morning.

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorist Cat Stevens Booted...
From: Paco Rabanne
Date: 22 Sep 04 - 09:51 AM

Doesn't he look like Bill Oddie nowadays?

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorist Cat Stevens Booted...
From: GUEST
Date: 22 Sep 04 - 10:24 AM

Does this mean I'm gonna have to burn my wife's Teaser and the Firecat LP? She's had it since college days and would never forgive me.....still, if it supports the US Gov't I suppose it has to be a good thing - well that's what Blair keeps telling us anyway.

Arnie

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorist Cat Stevens Booted...
From: bflat
Date: 22 Sep 04 - 10:37 AM

As reported in the NYTimes today,which I will excerpt:
"The officials, both of whom said they could not be named because this was a security issue, said Mr. Islam was a financial supporter of groups believed to be linked to terrorism....

...After the interception of Mr. Islam on Tuesday, one of the government officials said, 'He is not on a watch list for making verbal threats.'
Mr. Islam was deported from Israel in July 2000 because he was believed to be a supporter of Hamas, the terrorist group...."

And the article said the diverted plane was kept on the ground for more than three hours. I guess it wasn't so far fetched to deport him. Not the kind of person I'd knowingly admit if I were able to make the decision.

Ellen

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorist Cat Stevens Booted...
From: Teresa
Date: 22 Sep 04 - 10:38 AM

Well, I have to agree with guest of 8:48 there. :>

T

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorist Cat Stevens Booted...
From: Paco Rabanne
Date: 22 Sep 04 - 11:45 AM

Muslim + naivety + lots of money + suspect funding + Hamas. Why take the chance? Deport him.

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorist Cat Stevens Booted...
From: Peace
Date: 22 Sep 04 - 11:49 AM

Bitter Blue

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorist Cat Stevens Booted...
From: Metchosin
Date: 22 Sep 04 - 12:05 PM

I would agree with Guest 8:48 as well. Canadian author Farley Mowatt was banned from travelling to the US too for visiting Russia during the"Cold War" and writing something complimentary about the Russian people in one of his books. Paranoia has always been an American national pastime. I don't believe Mowat found the curtailing of his travel plans any great loss.

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorist Cat Stevens Booted...
From: Little Hawk
Date: 22 Sep 04 - 12:19 PM

Yeah, I was thinking about Farley Mowat too. As far as I'm concerned, when someone famous is refused entry to the USA it's sort of a badge of honour for them.

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorist Cat Stevens Booted...
From: Once Famous
Date: 22 Sep 04 - 12:27 PM

He's no longer famous. Cat Stevens was famous. Mr. Islam isn't. How many Yusef Islams are out there, anyway?

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorist Cat Stevens Booted...
From: GUEST,8:48
Date: 22 Sep 04 - 01:13 PM

Well, I didn't want anyone to think I think political enemies lists are A Good Thing. They are reprehensible, but extremely popular among dictators and authoritarian regimes everywhere in every age.

And the US has been authoritarian for years now.

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorist Cat Stevens Booted...
From: GUEST,Omar Suliman
Date: 22 Sep 04 - 01:14 PM

Yusuf Islams? There are a great many of them, Martin. A tremendous number. It is probably as common a name as David Jones or Lenny Goldstein. I personally have met at least 75 Yusuf Islams, and not one of them was a former pop musician.

I wonder what would happen if Cat Stevens/Yusuf Islam were to experience a dramatic new conversion to militant Christianity...or better yet...orthodox Judaism! He could then change his name to Jesus Christian in the first case...or Hyman Goldfarb in the second. He could make florid public statements condemning terrorism, demanding an end to the Islamic Jihad, and vowing death upon Osama Bin Laden!

This would no doubt go so well with the views of the Bush administration that he would have no difficulty whatsoever in entering the USA, which is always happy to encourage the right sort of fanaticism. Personally, I would be more than willing to change my name and religion for the privilege of entering the veritable paradise that is your country, Martin, and enjoying the privileges of peace, liberty, freedom, and mass consumerism upon which it is founded.

I am going to write Mr Islam and suggest that he do this right away.

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorist Cat Stevens Booted...
From: Teresa
Date: 22 Sep 04 - 01:27 PM

And there was also Paul robeson, in the late 50s, and he was an American!

And the list goes on and on.

T

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorist Cat Stevens Booted...
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 22 Sep 04 - 01:36 PM

Well, he does have a beard doesn't he? That always seems to be enough to get me a bit of extra attention at airports.

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorist Cat Stevens Booted...
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 22 Sep 04 - 01:40 PM

A man publically supports those who encourage the murder of a novelist

This is being cited as reason to stop someone entering the USA? The county whose's very president publically supports those who encourage the murder of innocent Iraqis? If you say that you disagree with someone you are prevented from entering the country but if you kill people for disagreeing you can lead it?

Is the world getting stranger or is it just me?

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorist Cat Stevens Booted...
From: Nerd
Date: 22 Sep 04 - 01:40 PM

"He could make florid public statements condemning terrorism, demanding an end to the Islamic Jihad, and vowing death upon Osama Bin Laden!"

Would this really be so bad, Omar?

And I think MG's point was precisely that there are innumerable Yusuf Islams, and that therefore this guy is not particularly famous. If you saw him in the street, talked with him in a bar (not likely, I admit) or even accepted a personal check from him you would probably never suspect that he was Cat Stevens. So the idea that he is on a political enemies list is a little farfetched; I suspect he really is suspected of funding terrorism.

On the other hand, I have no doubt that such a political enemies list exists. I just don't think the dude who used to be Cat Stevens is on it.

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorist Cat Stevens Booted...
From: GUEST,Omar Suliman
Date: 22 Sep 04 - 01:58 PM

You miss my point, Nerd. You see, if you are on one side of the great hysterical patriotic divide, you:

Condemn American and Israeli imperialism, demand an end to their militaristic aggression, and vow death to their soldiers and commanders!

And, boy, do you feel righteous! Oh, yeah, baby! You will go out and kill over it.

If you are on the other side of the great patriotic divide, you:

Condemn Muslim terrorism, demand an end to the Islamic Jihad, and vow death to their fighters and commanders!

And, boy, do you feel righteous! Oh, yeah, baby! You will go out and kill over it.



Those two sets of people are the mirror image of one another, and they both foster terrorism and hatred around the world. They have no solution to the problem, because they ARE the problem.

Therefore, I was pointing out in a satirical fashion that all one has to do to be in the good books of the USA these day is just be their kind of dangerous fanatic. It's that simple. If Cat Stevens were their kind of dangerous fanatic, he would have no trouble getting into the USA.

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorist Cat Stevens Booted...
From: Nerd
Date: 22 Sep 04 - 02:16 PM

Omar, are you using "their soldiers and commanders" to refer to...Salman Rushdie?

This is MY point. The two sides are not always mirror images of one another.

But in general, your point is well taken.

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorist Cat Stevens Booted...
From: GUEST,Omar Suliman
Date: 22 Sep 04 - 02:30 PM

Thank you, Nerd. Actually, I think Islamic fundamentalists did think of Salman Rushdie as an enemy propaganda commander, in the sense that he was promulgating what they would view as subversive propaganda injurious to their people. One fights a war with ideas as well as with guns and bombs. Ideas are powerful.

And they also viewed him as a traitor to the cause. The Americans would have executed Benedict Arnold if they had captured him, I imagine. I'm sure they wanted him dead by any means feasible.

I think the two sides are mirror images of one another psychologically speaking....but they are certainly not mirror images in every literal outward detail. They just tend to think in a similar fashion. ("We good...they bad." "We God's people...they not." "We rightfully defending...they wrongfully attacking.") These are all subjective and self-serving viewpoints.

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorist Cat Stevens Booted...
From: Once Famous
Date: 22 Sep 04 - 02:39 PM

guest, Omar, Nerd is right. It went right over your head about how many Usef Islams there are. Probably as many as Mohammad Atta.

Your right, this is a great country. Wouldn't want to live any where else.

We're Americans, baby

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorist Cat Stevens Booted...
From: GUEST,Tom Ridgerunner
Date: 22 Sep 04 - 03:12 PM

Other than the fact that he is Muslim, why was he arrested?


Read the reports, Dianavan, he wasn't arrested. He was refused entry into the country and put on an airplane home.

Still asking why, are you?

Maybe it was his support for Ayatollah Khomeni's death sentence on Salman Rusdie.

Or maybe it was those benefit concerts that he played for terrorist organizations. That sort of thing has been frowned upon in these parts since September 11, 2001. (even if he did say that 9/11 was a mistake)

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorist Cat Stevens Booted...
From: Nerd
Date: 22 Sep 04 - 03:15 PM

My point, Omar, is that the people marked for death by one side are often people like Salman Rushdie, whose only crimes are crimes of writing; the people marked for death by the other are people like Osama Bin Laden, who murder thousands of innocent people. There is a qualitative difference there.

Benedict Arnold was a traitor in a very practical sense of giving away a military fort to an enemy. Salman Rushdie wrote a novel. There is a qualitative difference there too.

THIS, to my mind, is why the two sides are not psychologically equivalent. Certain values, like freedom of expression, are more important to some parties than to others.

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorist Cat Stevens Booted...
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 22 Sep 04 - 03:24 PM

Looking back it seems to me that Salman Rushdie was strangely naive in writing that book - I don't mean because of personal danger to himself and all that, but because he appears to have been totally unaware of the destabilising impact of a book like that in that particular historical situation.

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorist Cat Stevens Booted...
From: pdq
Date: 22 Sep 04 - 04:05 PM

British airprort security officers have taken full responsibility for allowing Yusuf Islam (=Cat Stevens) on the plane. He is on an international list of known fund-raising activists who funnel money to Hamas and other Islamic Fundamentalist terror groups. Whenever you look at his picture you should see the dead bodies of Israeli school children. Cat Stevens helped raise money to by the bombs.

No, this is not about a political enemies list. This is about fighting terrorism. Many groups, especially the IRA, have found the US a wonderful place to mine for money.

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorist Cat Stevens Booted...
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 22 Sep 04 - 04:13 PM

As in most wars, both sides in the struggle in the Holy Land have been and continue to do things which in time their descendants will surely be bitterly ashamed for. And true enough, the USA, as the richest society on the planet, is inevitably a main source of financial support for the killers.