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The Wisdom of Yusuf Islam/Cat Stevens

Lizzie Cornish 29 Jun 06 - 05:13 PM
Lizzie Cornish 29 Jun 06 - 05:15 PM
pavane 30 Jun 06 - 02:46 AM
Folk Form # 1 30 Jun 06 - 06:03 AM
Paco Rabanne 30 Jun 06 - 06:06 AM
John O'L 30 Jun 06 - 06:16 AM
GUEST 30 Jun 06 - 06:32 AM
GUEST,Get Real 30 Jun 06 - 06:38 AM
Lizzie Cornish 30 Jun 06 - 06:59 AM
GUEST,Jack Campin 30 Jun 06 - 07:14 AM
GUEST 30 Jun 06 - 07:37 AM
The Shambles 30 Jun 06 - 07:52 AM
Dave Hanson 30 Jun 06 - 07:56 AM
The Borchester Echo 30 Jun 06 - 08:03 AM
jojofolkagogo 30 Jun 06 - 08:20 AM
Anglo 30 Jun 06 - 10:24 AM
Jeri 30 Jun 06 - 10:37 AM
Greg B 30 Jun 06 - 12:38 PM
GUEST,Jack Campin 30 Jun 06 - 12:52 PM
The Shambles 30 Jun 06 - 12:58 PM
Little Hawk 30 Jun 06 - 01:05 PM
Jeri 30 Jun 06 - 01:17 PM
Greg B 30 Jun 06 - 01:19 PM
Little Hawk 30 Jun 06 - 01:23 PM
Folk Form # 1 30 Jun 06 - 01:50 PM
The Shambles 30 Jun 06 - 02:05 PM
GUEST,Number 6 30 Jun 06 - 02:14 PM
GUEST,number 6 30 Jun 06 - 02:29 PM
Little Hawk 30 Jun 06 - 03:00 PM
Little Hawk 30 Jun 06 - 03:15 PM
GUEST,number 6 30 Jun 06 - 03:34 PM
Goose Gander 30 Jun 06 - 03:54 PM
GUEST,Jack Campin 30 Jun 06 - 03:58 PM
Little Hawk 30 Jun 06 - 04:14 PM
GUEST,Number 6 30 Jun 06 - 04:17 PM
Effsee 30 Jun 06 - 04:21 PM
Dave the Gnome 30 Jun 06 - 04:35 PM
Folk Form # 1 30 Jun 06 - 05:14 PM
Dave the Gnome 30 Jun 06 - 05:20 PM
The Borchester Echo 30 Jun 06 - 05:20 PM
Lizzie Cornish 30 Jun 06 - 05:21 PM
Dave the Gnome 30 Jun 06 - 05:27 PM
Lizzie Cornish 30 Jun 06 - 05:36 PM
Dave the Gnome 30 Jun 06 - 05:37 PM
Lizzie Cornish 30 Jun 06 - 05:39 PM
Dave the Gnome 30 Jun 06 - 05:44 PM
GUEST,Hootenanny 30 Jun 06 - 05:44 PM
Little Hawk 30 Jun 06 - 05:45 PM
Lizzie Cornish 30 Jun 06 - 06:06 PM
Little Hawk 30 Jun 06 - 06:14 PM
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Subject: The Wisdom of Yusuf Islam/Cat Stevens
From: Lizzie Cornish
Date: 29 Jun 06 - 05:13 PM

I've brought a thread of mine over from the Radio 2 board...hope this is OK:


I have always loved the music of Yusuf Islam. Many of his songs are as relevant today, for my children in their world, as they were for my generation way back when.

This gentle, wise man who withdrew from the music world so long ago, at the height of his fame, is now back with us all! He has a new CD due to be released shortly, no name as yet though. I can't wait to hear what he has to say in his new songs.

Here is his official website:

http://www.yusufislam.org.uk/yi2/index.html

I recently watched the Alan Yentob interview that he did with Yusuf, wonderful! You can watch it on the link below, or if it is not allowed by the Mods, just google 'Alan Yentob Yusuf Islam Interview' and you will find it easily. I very much hope the Mods will allow this link to stay, as Yusuf and Alan have important things to say that should be heard:

Yusuf Islam and Alan Yentob interivew:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-688991723998377475


I've always felt that Yusuf has an important part to play in the future peace of this world, a wise and peace-loving man. A man of great intelligence and who cares deeply about all people, as you will see in the interview. I hope that we in this country give him the acknowledgement and respect he so deserves for many reasons, apart from his music.

He tells Alan Yentob that he doesn't wish to become involved in politics because he feels that his message is in his songs. I agree with his view on that totally...and I very much hope that the BBC will be playing Yusuf Islam on every one of their programmes during the day when his new CD is released.

It was Phil Ochs who said:

"One good song with a message can bring a point more deeply to more people than a thousand rallies."

Where Do The Children Play
Wild World
Ruby Love
Old School Yard
Sad Lisa
Father And Son
Oh Very Young

So many great songs....and the one I love best of all....PEACE TRAIN:

Yusuf Islam and Alan Yentob interivew:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-688991723998377475


So...what are you memories of Cat?

And your hopes for Yusuf?


Lizzie :0)


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Subject: RE: The Wisdom of Yusuf Islam/Cat Stevens
From: Lizzie Cornish
Date: 29 Jun 06 - 05:15 PM

Sorry, excuse the bit about 'the Mods'..that was a BBC R2 reference which I should have removed. Max's Mudcat Mods are beautiful! xx :0)


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Subject: RE: The Wisdom of Yusuf Islam/Cat Stevens
From: pavane
Date: 30 Jun 06 - 02:46 AM

I do sometimes have difficulty in working out what the songs are actually ABOUT though. Some of the lyrics don't seem to make much sense (to me, anyway) if you look carefully.


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Subject: RE: The Wisdom of Yusuf Islam/Cat Stevens
From: Folk Form # 1
Date: 30 Jun 06 - 06:03 AM

A man of Peace! Oh come on. Retire at the height of his fame! No he did not. He was on a downward slope for several years and he knew it. I hate his fey insipid songs, but worst of all, I hate his religion. Think of Cat Stevens's support for the fatwah against Rushdie or the silence of the majority of Muslims on the subject. Think of the bombings in Spain and London, not to mention the countless suicide bombers in Israel. Think of the murder of Theo van Gogh. Think of the stoning to death of adulterous in Muslim countries-or the public executions. Think how Muslims managed to intimidate this country into not showing those Belgium cartoons. Think how the left wing in this country derides the religious right and yet gives support to Muslims in this country, who often have an equally reactionary agenda.


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Subject: RE: The Wisdom of Yusuf Islam/Cat Stevens
From: Paco Rabanne
Date: 30 Jun 06 - 06:06 AM

Well said Mr Penguin. I do love his earlier albums, but 'Numbers' and 'izitso' were dire.


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Subject: RE: The Wisdom of Yusuf Islam/Cat Stevens
From: John O'L
Date: 30 Jun 06 - 06:16 AM

Yes, I too have a Mona Bone Jakon, and neither will it be lonely for long...

...or will it?


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Subject: RE: The Wisdom of Yusuf Islam/Cat Stevens
From: GUEST
Date: 30 Jun 06 - 06:32 AM

There's one of his hits you forgot to mention - "I'm Gonna Get Me A Gun".


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Subject: RE: The Wisdom of Yusuf Islam/Cat Stevens
From: GUEST,Get Real
Date: 30 Jun 06 - 06:38 AM

Peace Train, wait a minute, I got religion!
Where was I
Kill Infidels, Kill Rushdie.
If that's what reading the koran does for you then you can blow it out your arse.
Cat Stephens sucks big time.


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Subject: RE: The Wisdom of Yusuf Islam/Cat Stevens
From: Lizzie Cornish
Date: 30 Jun 06 - 06:59 AM

If some of the people above, whose souls seem to be filled with hate, would take the trouble to watch the video, you would hear Yusuf explaining what the press did and how they twisted things.

I have to say, that in all the things I've seen written on messageboards so far....and I've had many a *deeply* unpleasant thing written about me...some of the comments above have saddened and upset me more than anything else.

I am utterly ashamed and totally appalled on your behalf.

And it just confirms to me how Yusuf's message of peace and turning this world away from hate, such as the above words show....has to be taken even more seriously!

Sheesh!!



Lizzie


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Subject: RE: The Wisdom of Yusuf Islam/Cat Stevens
From: GUEST,Jack Campin
Date: 30 Jun 06 - 07:14 AM

Cat Stevens is *not* a Muslim. He's a follower of the Ahmadiyya sect, which bears the same relationship to Islam as Mormonism does to Christianity. In the UK at least, the Ahmadis have typically taken extreme right-wing positions far at variance with mainstream Muslim opinion.


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Subject: RE: The Wisdom of Yusuf Islam/Cat Stevens
From: GUEST
Date: 30 Jun 06 - 07:37 AM

"Moonshadow"


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Subject: RE: The Wisdom of Yusuf Islam/Cat Stevens
From: The Shambles
Date: 30 Jun 06 - 07:52 AM

Whatever - he and everyone else is welcome to their views.

I don't know how it happened and I am sure it would not happen today - but at my primary school we had an American teacher for a term or so. I realise now - that he was a visiting memnber of the Morman faith but all the stuff he used to tell us about his religion just went over our heads and sounded just like another fairy story. The story of the founding of Salt Lake City sounded like an episode of ITV's Wagon Train.

However, the rest of what this exotic young teacher brought to our West London lives and taught to us - I found to be a lot more value. He did not know much local geograpy but as a result of just this short time - I found out a lot about the USA and its geograpy in particular. I can't say that I can remember much else being taught to me at school being so interesting.

I supose what I am saying is that a lot can be leaned from well-intentioned charismatic people - whatever their faith may be.


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Subject: RE: The Wisdom of Yusuf Islam/Cat Stevens
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 30 Jun 06 - 07:56 AM

I saw that episode of Wagon Train.

eric


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Subject: RE: The Wisdom of Yusuf Islam/Cat Stevens
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 30 Jun 06 - 08:03 AM

So did I. The trailer belonging to the Family Of Colour made its own circle away from the much bigger Caucasian one when the wagon train got surrounded by the Native Americans. Or was that Blazing Saddles?


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Subject: RE: The Wisdom of Yusuf Islam/Cat Stevens
From: jojofolkagogo
Date: 30 Jun 06 - 08:20 AM

Hello, nice thread... (well it could be !)

The epic story of the introduction of the mormon faith at Utah just happens to be TRUE ....

but I have to say, as is usual, the media (the silver screen) just LOVE to glorify things just a tad .... which makes for slushy movies, sad and joyous, etc - something to write home about and talk about, it is all part of the hype to get you to go see ...

but it DID happen ...

Getting back to Cat Stevens - well, the hateful post by Penguin Egg, I think just needs to be ignored - it certainly is a shame that some people feel such hate - everyone has a right to their own views of course - but generally I think the point is that Cat is a man of CHARISMA, which I think Jesus was, people listened to him, he had something concrete to say, and he (Cat) says it beautifully is some of his songs.

If/when anyone tries to promote peace they tend to get a slogging, look at MLK, JFK, etc - history shows that MEN just love to hate and fight generally, I think its in their genes. (just watch boys at play ...they always push each other around, bump, hit, scratch, berate, all the time - just WATCH !)...

I have THREE albums of Cats - Mona Bone, and I cant remember the other two, but AL THREE had some wonderful songs on them, I really MUST get them out again and have a listen, its been some time ...

thanks for the reminder ...
Jo-Jo


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Subject: RE: The Wisdom of Yusuf Islam/Cat Stevens
From: Anglo
Date: 30 Jun 06 - 10:24 AM

Charles Manson was another man of CHARISMA. There were a few more as well...


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Subject: RE: The Wisdom of Yusuf Islam/Cat Stevens
From: Jeri
Date: 30 Jun 06 - 10:37 AM

Cat/Yusuf has, the times I've heard him SPEAK FOR HIMSELF, also been a man of wisdom and peace. When others have spoken for him, he's more like a stereotypical rabid wannabe killer. I'd rather listen to him.


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Subject: RE: The Wisdom of Yusuf Islam/Cat Stevens
From: Greg B
Date: 30 Jun 06 - 12:38 PM

Most of that interview was old hat...done to death by the
biography channel and A&E and VH1. Some of it I found to
be a bit affected...the opening visits to his old home in
SOHO...come on, don't tell us he's not been back in 40
years, he spends a good deal of time in London!

I grew up with his music. It was quite literally a part
of my spiritual formation coming of age in Catholic
school in the 1970's. And I like it; Stevens had a voice
that sounded like a smile.

His music was accessible...your average guitarist or pianist
could play it, and much of it could be sung by the average
singer.

It seems everyone approved: us, our parents, priests, nuns,
we all could listen to it and like it. It even started
conversations. Like folk music.

It's too bad that the pop star life and the singer-songwriter
were so at odds. Would he have chucked it all if he'd been
in the embrace of the folk music community rather than hanging
with Hendrix and making himself ill?

I'm glad he's recording again, and seems to have gone moderate.

At the same time, I find a disquieting tendency to continue
to re-invent himself. There is no question that he was a
fundamentalist during the majority of his post-conversion
period. From his manner of dress to his rejection of music
largely and instrumental music entirely, it was quite obvious.

And he was clearly on the side of 'bring about an Islamic world
under Islamic law' as opposed to 'live and let live.'

I find his clarification of his position on the fatwah against
Rushdie inadequate and unsatisfactory. Anything short of 'killing
people for religious reasons is wrong' was inadequate, and
remains so. You can't sing 'Peace Train' on one hand and,
as a high profile Islamic leader wash your hands of Rusdhdie's
situation.

On one hand, he seems to be starting to understand that
fundamentalism has its problems, not the least of which is
that it leads to extremism.

On the other hand, I wonder how much of his coming out of
musical retirement may have much to do with temporal needs.
First, there was a 'greatest hits' reissue. Now, he has again
picked up the guitar, that tool of the infidel that spewed
forth six-digit checks for years. And the explanation is
'well, I've since learned that the guitar was introduced
to the Spanish from Muslims.'

This kind of thing is supposed to be new news?

My hope is that he is sincere. That he is beginning to
realize that the inevitable result of fundamentalism
(of any kind) is terrible clashes and human suffering.

When I was halfway through the documentary, I was reflecting
on his taking of the name Yusef...Joseph. I was thinking "gee,
wasn't that about the time when 'The Amazing Technicolor
Dream Coat' was a big hit? I wonder if it was that Joseph
whose name he took?" Then, sure enough, he confirmed that
it was the Jewish patriarch Joseph who inspired him...the
one who was bought and sold.

I hope that Yusef is figuring out that Joseph was a
Jew who is a patriarch of Jews, Christians, and Muslims,
and is perhap taking the time to consider what that means.

Above all, I hope that he will be the one to say to his
brothers in Islam "stop this. We have to stop this business
of trying to establish theocracy." Someone has to, but nobody
is. Which is what leads to angry comments like penguin's above,
I think.


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Subject: RE: The Wisdom of Yusuf Islam/Cat Stevens
From: GUEST,Jack Campin
Date: 30 Jun 06 - 12:52 PM

: Above all, I hope that he will be the one to say to his brothers in Islam

He doesn't have any. He's an Ahmadi. He is not regarded as a Muslim by anybody except other Ahmadis.


: "stop this. We have to stop this business of trying to establish theocracy." Someone has to,
: but nobody is.

Apart from something like 25 million Alevis in Turkey *alone* whose politics is explicitly anti-theocratic and has been for the last couple of centuries?

Theocracy is a minority position everywhere in the Muslim world. It just happens to be backed by a few powerful reactionaries with money, in the same way that Christian and Hindu fundamentalism are.


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Subject: RE: The Wisdom of Yusuf Islam/Cat Stevens
From: The Shambles
Date: 30 Jun 06 - 12:58 PM

Charles Manson was another man of CHARISMA. There were a few more as well...

Perhaps he and others would not be described as well-intentioned.

Everyone has the right to their views. And no matter how persuasive - the individulal airing them may be - as long as no one is being forced to accept them and the choice to accept them or not remains theirs - that is the way it should be?


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Subject: RE: The Wisdom of Yusuf Islam/Cat Stevens
From: Little Hawk
Date: 30 Jun 06 - 01:05 PM

Yes, I'd rather listen to him too...he has something worthwhile to say.

The video is a very interesting tale of one man's personal journey. He seems like an extremely nice person to me, well intentioned in every respect. I was not a particularly big Cat Stevens fan back in the 70's...I respected his musicianship, which was excellent, but his songs didn't really appeal to my taste much. Musically they were great, but it was just a style I wasn't into, that's all. It seemed too "pop" to me...or maybe it seemed too "sensitive" or something... ;-) I preferred Bob Dylan by a mile.

However, in retrospect, I have to say that Cat Stevens was a hell of a good musician and performer, still no doubt is a hell of a good musician, and appears to be a very good man too.

People who are so busy hating all Muslims that they can't talk coherently about it are as ignorant as the Islamic Jihadists whom they fear. They deserve each other, and let's hope they find each other and leave reasonable people like Yusuf Islam and most of the rest of us alone in peace.

I've known lots of Muslims. Most of them, as Yusuf says, are just people who want to live in peace. Like the rest of us.

Of course, if you don't bother to watch the video, you'll never really know what he says about anything, will you? And you can just plant some words of hate in his mouth the you made up yourself and pretend he is the fanatic you think he is in that case.

There are good people in all religions.


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Subject: RE: The Wisdom of Yusuf Islam/Cat Stevens
From: Jeri
Date: 30 Jun 06 - 01:17 PM

From his own website:
The very first lesson that I learnt from the Qur'an, was the message of unity and peace. This was not that dark, foreign religion which I had expected. First it was talking about belief in One God Lording over all people, creatures and events in this matchless Universe - talking about us as Adamic in nature; children of humanity from the same Parents, Adam and Eve, belonging to one family.


I wonder how many who have made up their minds about him, did so based on misinterpretations and rumors. That whole thing he never said, yet persists in being passed on, about Salmon Rushdie comes to mind.


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Subject: RE: The Wisdom of Yusuf Islam/Cat Stevens
From: Greg B
Date: 30 Jun 06 - 01:19 PM

"He is not regarded as a Muslim by anybody except other Ahmadis."

That's up there on the dumbness scale with those who say
'Catholics aren't Christians' or 'Mormans aren't Christians.'

Of course we have plenty of Muslims who claim one another
aren't. Lets see--the Sunnis say the Shiites aren't and
vice-versa.

And of course the Orthodox Jews claim that at least
some conservative and reformed Jews aren't...

Yes, Ahmadi is a bit of a fringe. That's well known.

But if it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, and
above all CLAIMS TO BE A DUCK...


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Subject: RE: The Wisdom of Yusuf Islam/Cat Stevens
From: Little Hawk
Date: 30 Jun 06 - 01:23 PM

By the way, he appears to have gone through three distinct stages:

1. Carnaby street pop singer...young idol...quintessentially British 60's pop star...which is when he recorded "I'm Gonna Get Me a Gun", and it was NO indication of someone who intends one day to support terrorism. You look at him in those days, and what is really clear is just the youthful exuberance and the innocence. Not a harmful person in any respect.

2. 70's folksinger with the classic halo of dark hair, the great acoustic guitar playing, and the introspective songs. He became an absolutely huge star in the early to mid-70's....became quite reclusive after '73...and moved to Brazil for 6 years to get away from the attention of fans and media. He HIMSELF voluntarily bowed out of the whole "star" thing and all that goes with it, as is bloody obvious if you watch the video and listen to his story with any attention.

3. Gradual conversion to Islam.   In a process that did not happen suddenly, but took several years, he first became distinctly aware of God as a power in his life...and sought through numerous religions traditions (Christianity, Taoism, Buddhish, Islam)...eventually finding that Islam spoke to him the strongest. By 1979 he had turned fully to Islam and had decided to stop performing music altogether.



***

The "monster" that some of you who have posted here see in your own fearful minds when you speak viciously about this obviously kindhearted and totally harmless man is merely this: the monster of your own fear and zenophobia reflected back on you. It is a monster born of ignorance.

He had the wisdom to have it ALL (fame, fortune, women, drugs, money, success, adulation, all the fruits of the world) right there in the palm of his hand...and to realize it doesn't solve anything...and to walk away from it by his own free will.

How many of you would have that much wisdom...given the chance? How many of you are talented enough or focused enough to even make use of the chance in the first place?

One in a thousand, I'd bet. Maybe one in 10,000. Pisses you off, doesn't it? That might account for the extraordinary bile you choose to hurl at this innocent man for the "crime" of deciding to become a Muslim.


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Subject: RE: The Wisdom of Yusuf Islam/Cat Stevens
From: Folk Form # 1
Date: 30 Jun 06 - 01:50 PM

Oh dear, I do seem to have offended people, don't I? Well, first of all, the press did not misrepresent him as you can tell by his feeble defence of his actions. He did support the fatwah against Rushdie. He had plenty of time in that documentary to defend Rushdie's right to speak his mind without fear and to condemn the fatwah without equivocation. He did neither.

I cannot understand why everyone talks about Stevens being a man of peace. His commitment is to Islam, which is not the same thing. Someone compared him to JFK- "a man of peace." Ha! JFK got into office as a hawk, helped escalate the arms race, tried to assassinate Castro, and declared war on Vietnam, which had done nothing against the USA at all. All in all, a good comparison.

Why does Little hawk think that others and I are jealous of him? Where is his evidence? Maybe we simply strongly disagree with him and are saying so.

Incidentally, I have noticed that none of my criticism of Islam has being addressed, which is telling in itself. By the way, I am not full of bile, just anger-anger at the way Muslims often behave, and Cat Stevens especially.


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Subject: RE: The Wisdom of Yusuf Islam/Cat Stevens
From: The Shambles
Date: 30 Jun 06 - 02:05 PM

Perhaps we can just ensure that all people have the right to say what they will - then we can judge for ourselves whether this is wisdom or not.

Attempts to prevent people from saying what they will and attempts to prevent others from hearing it - is certainly not showing much wisdom.


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Subject: RE: The Wisdom of Yusuf Islam/Cat Stevens
From: GUEST,Number 6
Date: 30 Jun 06 - 02:14 PM

Matthew and Son ... You can't be late
a cup of cold coffee and a piece of cake.

I always have liked that line. Now that is words of wisdom.

sIx


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Subject: RE: The Wisdom of Yusuf Islam/Cat Stevens
From: GUEST,number 6
Date: 30 Jun 06 - 02:29 PM

Good points on JFK Penguin Egg ... he was also reponsible for the assination er execution of Ngo Dinh Diem ... by seretly giving assurances to the AVRN generals the U.S. would not interfere with they're overthrow of Diem's govertment and his subsequent execution, thus allowing the open road to U.S. influence .... a road that led to it's own demise. JFK conspiracy stories are always interesting.

Anyway ... I apologize for the thread drift ... now everyone can get back to they're choice of bashing Cat Stevens or praising him as a prophet of peace and enlightenment.

sIx


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Subject: RE: The Wisdom of Yusuf Islam/Cat Stevens
From: Little Hawk
Date: 30 Jun 06 - 03:00 PM

You're quite right about JFK, Penguing Egg.

Why do I think you're jealous of Cat Stevens? Well, I don't KNOW that you are, but I suspect you might be, that's all. It's a possibility. Many people are secretely jealous of stars and famous people...they may not admit it to themselves...they may not even be conscious of it...but from where stems the particular venom they direct toward the famous when the famous fail to please them?

Probably from jealousy, I'd say.

Anyway, maybe you're not jealous of him, maybe you are, it remains theoretical.

Islam does not equate to violence. You seem to think it does. That's a stupid assumption. It's as stupid as believing that Christianity or atheism equate to violence.

If you think any of them do...you're just expressing a blind prejudice. You cannot tar a whole faith with the actions of a few extremist members of that faith (unless you're a fanatic, that is).

I personally know plenty of Muslims here in Canada. Not one of them supports terrorism. Not one of them. Matter of fact, they are all very much opposed to it. Not one of them supported the Fatwa against Salman Rushdie either.

You can always find a few fanatics in any religion. So what? You can find murderous people among atheists too.


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Subject: RE: The Wisdom of Yusuf Islam/Cat Stevens
From: Little Hawk
Date: 30 Jun 06 - 03:15 PM

6 - Who says he's a prophet? I say he's a fine musician and a nice, likeable man.


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Subject: RE: The Wisdom of Yusuf Islam/Cat Stevens
From: GUEST,number 6
Date: 30 Jun 06 - 03:34 PM

I guess I exaggerated somewhat on the leaning of the Cat Stevens pro side.

Personally I never cared for his music, except as pre mentioned with the Matthew and Son excerpt. As to him being a 'likeable' guy ... well, I never met him, so I can't say, but I do have a distaste of his stand on his support the fatwah against Salman Rushdie ... I mean wouldn't any non-violent humane loving passenger on the Peace Train also feel an aversion towards him.

sIx


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Subject: RE: The Wisdom of Yusuf Islam/Cat Stevens
From: Goose Gander
Date: 30 Jun 06 - 03:54 PM

JFK never "declared war on Vietnam" any more than GW Bush declared war on Iraq. But you are right, neither can be called a 'man of peace'. As for Cat Stevens, of course it is ridiculous to view him as the personification of Islam and condemn him for everything from suicide bombers to mob violence, but I do think he should have spoken out against the Rushdie fatwa (not that he was responsible for it, or could have ended it).


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Subject: RE: The Wisdom of Yusuf Islam/Cat Stevens
From: GUEST,Jack Campin
Date: 30 Jun 06 - 03:58 PM

: "He is not regarded as a Muslim by anybody except other Ahmadis."
: That's up there on the dumbness scale with those who say
: 'Catholics aren't Christians' or 'Mormans aren't Christians.'

I don't know anybody but a Mormon who would regard Mormons as Christian.

And I don't know any Catholic or Protestant who would regard someone on the other side of that divide as not being Christian.

The two situations are basically different. Mormonism adds another prophetic revelation mediated by an angel to Christianity, in the same way that Islam did.


: Lets see--the Sunnis say the Shiites aren't and vice-versa.

They don't. Neither way. It's a doctrinal disagreement as with the Prod/Mick schism; they recognize different *human* authorities, not different supernatural ones.

The Rushdie affair is the least of the Ahmadis' reactionary influence in the UK. They have consistently campaigned for separate and inferior education for girls - mainstream Muslim opinion is overwhelmingly in favour of normal state education for both sexes. In their campaign they've made a point of seeking out allies from the most repressive tendencies in Christianity.


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Subject: RE: The Wisdom of Yusuf Islam/Cat Stevens
From: Little Hawk
Date: 30 Jun 06 - 04:14 PM

"I don't know anybody but a Mormon who would regard Mormons as Christian."

Heh! Spectacular example of religious prejudice in action. Look, if someone says he's a Christian, it's nobody else's business to say he's not. Same goes for anyone who says he's a Muslim.

As for whether his way of being a Christian or a Muslim suits you, well, that's another matter altogether.

Every culture has in its makeup a number of common habits and attitudes that are not agreed to or liked by people in other cultures. That's life. That's the way it is. To condemn Cat/Yusuf for the various aspects of Muslim culture YOU don't like is about as pointless as him condeming you for something similar that you take for granted that he doesn't like.

No culture is perfect. No religion is perfect. No adherent of any religion is perfect either...and YOU aren't perfect.

So my advice is: don't cast the first stone.


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Subject: RE: The Wisdom of Yusuf Islam/Cat Stevens
From: GUEST,Number 6
Date: 30 Jun 06 - 04:17 PM

May I suggest we try to refrain from digging into discussions on religion ... it certainly will go nowhere except for long linguring posts of the most bigoted hateful nature.

sIx


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Subject: RE: The Wisdom of Yusuf Islam/Cat Stevens
From: Effsee
Date: 30 Jun 06 - 04:21 PM

Hear,hear,sIx.


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Subject: RE: The Wisdom of Yusuf Islam/Cat Stevens
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 30 Jun 06 - 04:35 PM

I disagree - It's nice to see that Penguin Egg spouts his bollocks in places other than on my Mona Bone Jakon thread.

Gives me a nice warm feeling. Down below...

The line that is.

:D (tG)


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Subject: RE: The Wisdom of Yusuf Islam/Cat Stevens
From: Folk Form # 1
Date: 30 Jun 06 - 05:14 PM

Little Hawk, believe me, I am not a jealous man. If I was, I would be jealous of everyone whom I admire and who is successful. I would be jealous of Bert Jansch, of Dylan, Springsteen, Neil Young, Charles Mingus, and loads of others. (Now these are people to be jealous of.)I can't prove I'm not jealous as you can prove I am: which makes your point totally pointless and a little unfair.

Just to clear things up, I am not tarring all Muslims with the same brush. I have known and worked with muslims for the last 25 years and have got on with them, but that does not mean that I cannot have issues with them, as I do. If I had launched an attack on right wing christian fundalmentalists, I expect that I would have the support of most of those attackng me now.

Dave the Gnome, I sprout my bollocks all over the place, as indeed, you do. It is the nature of free speech.


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Subject: RE: The Wisdom of Yusuf Islam/Cat Stevens
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 30 Jun 06 - 05:20 PM

That is indeed yor prerogative, Penguin Egg. Please feel free to spout your invective as long as you like. The longer you do it the sooner people will see you for what you are. Lets take a line from your own song.

A stranger to the truth is he
There's not a lie he hasn't told.

Cheers

:D (tG)


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Subject: RE: The Wisdom of Yusuf Islam/Cat Stevens
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 30 Jun 06 - 05:20 PM

I sprout my bollocks all over the place

Good grief, did I really want to know that? . . . (turning the page rapidly and swiftly moving on . . . )


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Subject: RE: The Wisdom of Yusuf Islam/Cat Stevens
From: Lizzie Cornish
Date: 30 Jun 06 - 05:21 PM

This thread has become very interesting.

It has opened my eyes to what Yusuf was talking about....How words are put into his mouth by people in the press....just as PE above is doing right now. He talks as if he were there when Yusuf allegedly said those words. He was not. The only people who know what was truly said are Yusuf and the reporter.

It is so easy for people to twist and spin, to lie, to point, to accuse, to make others believe what *they* want them to believe, to put a new 'angle' on something and to lead others astray, to warp, to bend....to want nothing but to destroy.....and amongst all of this, innocent people are made to suffer.

I trust what Yusuf says.

I do not trust PE above.

And....I trust Little Hawk too. But then, Little Hawk's spirit is open and wise.

PE...you (imo) still have much to learn.


Lizzie


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Subject: RE: The Wisdom of Yusuf Islam/Cat Stevens
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 30 Jun 06 - 05:27 PM

PE has nothing to learn, Lizzie. He already knows everything. As I said on the Mona Bone Jakon thread. Don't get involved in a battle of wits with an unarmed man.

Cheers

DtG


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Subject: RE: The Wisdom of Yusuf Islam/Cat Stevens
From: Lizzie Cornish
Date: 30 Jun 06 - 05:36 PM

Dave.....roughly how far back is your thread? I'd like to read what's on there.

I hope it isn't too new....didn't mean to step on any toes!


Lizzie :0)


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Subject: RE: The Wisdom of Yusuf Islam/Cat Stevens
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 30 Jun 06 - 05:37 PM

Incidentaly - just noticed 2 quotes from the same source. (Guess who?)

Quote 1. (said of Cat Stevens) but worst of all, I hate his religion.

Quote 2. Just to clear things up, I am not tarring all Muslims with the same brush. I have known and worked with muslims for the last 25 years and have got on with them, but that does not mean that I cannot have issues with them, as I do.

Anyone find anything vaguely incongruous about a man who hates Islam working with Muslims for 25 years and getting on with them? If he hates Islam so much then I guess the Moslims he works with must be a very forgiving lot to get on with him so.

:D (tG)


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Subject: RE: The Wisdom of Yusuf Islam/Cat Stevens
From: Lizzie Cornish
Date: 30 Jun 06 - 05:39 PM

Cancel my request Dave....I've just found your thread! (looks like we posted at the same time there too)

thread.cfm?threadid=92556&messages=34


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Subject: RE: The Wisdom of Yusuf Islam/Cat Stevens
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 30 Jun 06 - 05:44 PM

Sorry, Lizzie, cross post. Mine is nothing to do with yours at all really. Just look below the line at the 'Mona Bone Jakon' thread. It is a (semi) serious question from me about what a Mona Bone Jakon is. We do find out but I was probably better not knowing;-) I have asked that either this thread be classed as BS or mine be classed as music - Nothing personal about it.

Just that they have both now been hijacked by anti-Moslem feelings. Such is the way of the world. We have to let the disadvantaged vent their feelings occasionaly. It is the only way they can feel good about themselves:-)

DtG


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Subject: RE: The Wisdom of Yusuf Islam/Cat Stevens
From: GUEST,Hootenanny
Date: 30 Jun 06 - 05:44 PM

Have any of you actually met the guy? I saw him a couple of times when he was Stevie Adams singing upstairs in a pub not far from where he used to wash up in his father's restaurant. I also met him shortly after he became Cat Stevens. My opinion of him then was that he was an egotistical little prick, just like so many in the pop music business. Like 95% of pop music his in my humble opinion was banal and doesn't belong on what I thought was a site more into folk oriented music.
On seeing the original message on this thread I was convinced that it was nothing but bumf posted by one of his record company's PR people and I'm still not sure. Remember,there's no such thing as bad publicity.


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Subject: RE: The Wisdom of Yusuf Islam/Cat Stevens
From: Little Hawk
Date: 30 Jun 06 - 05:45 PM

You may indeed not be jealous of anyone famous, PE. I was speaking about people in a general way, and you may be an exception.

I'm glad to hear you are not tarring all Muslims with the same brush.

One reporter chose to quote (probably misquote) Yusuf, most likely out of context, in order to sell copy (which is why the press exists). Are reporters generally scrupulously fair? Or are they out to get a scoop which will attract attention?

Give that some consideration and consider the possibility that you are being a little unfair toward Mr Yusuf Islam. I see nothing in his personal history to suggest that he would have been in favour of assassinating an author over a book he wrote. Matter of fact, it's damn silly to think so.

Being not much of a fan of Cat Stevens back then in the 70's, as I said before, I only went to one of his shows...I'd say around 1973. It was at Massey Hall in Toronto. Well, I was impressed. He did a superb performance. I was the one who was jealous, I can tell you....particularly of his guitar work. It made me feel like hanging my own guitar up or selling it. He was one hell of a fine performer, whether or not one liked his particular style of songwriting. I took him a bit more seriously after that, although I didn't listen to his stuff all that much.

With the passage of many years I have become less picky and judgemental than I was at age 25. I now appreciate the craftsmanship that went into his melodies and guitar parts and singing...very, very good quality work indeed. That is a smart and creative man there, and one capable of doing more than just superficial thinking.


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Subject: RE: The Wisdom of Yusuf Islam/Cat Stevens
From: Lizzie Cornish
Date: 30 Jun 06 - 06:06 PM

>>>On seeing the original message on this thread I was convinced that it was nothing but bumf posted by one of his record company's PR people and I'm still not sure. Remember,there's no such thing as bad publicity.<<<<

Trust me Hootie....I DO NOT work for Yusuf Islam's record company, although I'm very flattered that you could remotely think I do! I just like putting in *loads* of links and making a post 'come alive' by using as much information as I can.

You just can't please some people can you? ;0)

And Dave.....Oh Nooooooooooo!!!!! The BBC have closed so many of my threads lately....for NO reason whatsoever....and now you've asked for this to be moved too....

Oh! I am getting SUCH a complex! ;0)


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Subject: RE: The Wisdom of Yusuf Islam/Cat Stevens
From: Little Hawk
Date: 30 Jun 06 - 06:14 PM

There's nothing like a spiteful mind to seek out evidence of wrongdoing and wrongful intention under every stone, is there?

Heh!

If someone out there really thinks there is "no such thing as bad publicity", they might recall what happened to Sinead O'Connor's career after that little incident concerning the Pope...


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