BS: Caliphate

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: akenaton
Date: 07 Sep 14 - 10:26 AM

Perhaps you are right M, but I would hate to think that anyone on this forum was anti-Semitic or racist.

I do know that there are many liberals and a handful of "liberals" here, many of the liberals are regarded as racists by the "liberals", who are themselves Fascists!

If that seems convoluted, I apologise, but constructing a sensible society is a complicated business. :0)

Likewise Regards...A

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 07 Sep 14 - 12:40 PM

Israel has been shrinking, not expanding since 1972!
How is it a threat to anyone's peace?


Egypt next door.
Like Israel supported by US taxes.
Guilty of apartheid against Bedouin, persecution of minorities and execution of political prisoners.
Also settling Bedouin land in Sinai and blockading Gaza.

Lots of views posted about Israel, almost none about Egypt.
No Jews no views?

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Musket
Date: 07 Sep 14 - 01:07 PM

Fuck me. He even repeats it. Have you no sense of shame?

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: bobad
Date: 07 Sep 14 - 01:25 PM

"No Jews no views? "

Exactly!

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Musket
Date: 07 Sep 14 - 04:32 PM

Not to mention the unfortunate echo.

If you have no argument, play the holocaust card.

Sick bastards.

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 08 Sep 14 - 04:09 AM

My argument is that it shows bias that you only and always criticise Israel while ignoring the worse behaviour of its immediate neighbours.
Why do you do that?

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Teribus
Date: 08 Sep 14 - 04:14 AM

Keith A of Hertford's post of Date: 07 Sep 14 - 12:40 PM

Makes a point and asks as valid question, which none of the "usual suspects" has answered - but that is about par for the course.

Israel expanding? Yet no comments about Jordan's expansion into the West Bank and East Jerusalem, or Egypt's into Gaza that resulted in "Palestinians" being shut up in refugee camps for decades and purposely kept in poverty to be used as political pawns, those refugee camps being located on "Palestinian" Land - no explanation or answer given for that little anomaly either although I have asked repeatedly.

Israel took in over 820,000 refugees and integrated them into the fabric of their country - Now why couldn't their Arab neighbours do the same for the Arab refugees?

Stop fighting, stop threatening Israel with annihilation and there will be peaceful co-existence and prosperity for all in the region - since 1848 the Arab side of the equation has NEVER given peace a chance.

Now as far as the Caliphate goes:

1: Anyone here in this community amazed by the millions of Muslims flooding to join the Caliph in his Islamic Paradise?

2: What has happened since the US has decided to provide Iraqi and Kurdish forces with air support?

3: What do think will happen to IS/ISIL/ISIS once the new Iraqi Government, their Arab neighbours and the full weight of US air power gets going to combat and challenge the "Caliphate"?

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 08 Sep 14 - 04:46 AM

At a recent Oireachtas (Irish parliament) special committee meeting attended by the Israeli Ambassador to Ireland, it was revealed that it has been proposed that that those who are protesting at the 'Gazan adventure' should not only all be treated as Anti-Semites, but their sexual orientation should be made public where necessary - gay Senator David Norris, a leading opponent of Israeli terrorism, reacted as would be expected!
The Ambassador assured the committee that the photograph of the statue of Molly Malone with her wheelbarrow, dressed in a burkah, has now been removed from the Embassy's website.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 08 Sep 14 - 05:39 AM

Some of the atrocities you people appear to be supporting, actually or with your silence.
Jim Carroll

From this Morning's Irish Times
GAZA FAMILY DEVASTATED BY SERIES OF ATTACKS
Lara Marlowe
in Beit Hanoun, Gaza Strip

Decomposing bodies remain unburied in rubble of destroyed building
Israeli ground troops, surviving family members claim, sequesered eight members of the Wahdan family, ranging in age from an 18-month-old girl to a 70-year-old grandfather, then dynamited their house in Beit Hanoun, killing all inside.
Four members of the same family were subsequently killed when Israeli drones fired three rockets at the house where they took refuge in Jabaliya camp. The dead included Sanioura Wahdan (20). Her three small boys were sleeping beside her and were among 30 relatives wounded in the second attack. The boys' father, Ali, has been sent to Egypt for medical care and may not survive. His left leg was amputated and he has a severe head wound.
Eighteen-month-old Mohamed has burn and suture scars on his face and abdomen and cries constantly. His brothers Omar (3) and Mussab (5) were also badly wounded. Mussab refuses to speak or engage with other people. The entire family are descendants of Zaki Wahdan, who was killed along with his wife, a daughter-in-law, four grandchildren and a great grand-daughter when Zaki's house was blown up on July 27th.
DRIVEN OUT
Wahdan was four when his family were driven out of Wadi Hanin, near Ramla, in the newly formed state of Israel. He had 10 sons and more than 100 grandchildren. The extended family lived with or near their patriarch, as is the custom among Palestinians. The men were construction and agricultural workers and beekeepers. They have no affiliation with Hamas.
Zaki Wahdan's home was less than 1km from Israel. From the rubble of his house, one can see the Israeli town of Sderot, which has often been targeted by Hamas rockets. "In the 2012 war, we saw soldiers on the dunes over there," says Ayman Wahdan. "They never shot at us. We don't understand why they attacked us this time."
On July 20th, Israeli special forces entered Beit Hanoun. More than 40 children and grandchildren had already fled Zaki Wahdan's four-storey building to seek safety in schools and in Jabaliya. Of the 15 who remained, the soldiers took seven men at gunpoint to the Erez crossing point, where they were questioned for three days about Hamas and why they had stayed in the house. Then they were given laissez passer documents and warned not to return to Beit Hanoun, so they joined other family members in Jabaliya.
During the night of July 26th-27th, Mohamed Wahdan (20) received a call from his sister Zeinab, who had stayed in the Beit Hanoun house. Mohamed was one of the seven men taken to Israel.
"Zeinab said: 'There is something strange going on. We are frightened,'" Mohamed recalls. "She said: 'The Israelis put us all in one room and said we would be safe if we didn't go out. They said don't open the door for anyone. I think they put dynamite in the house.'"
ONLY LIMBS FOUND
When Mohamed Wahdan re¬turned to Beit Hanoun, he found seven charred legs in the rubble. He knew immediately which brother or sister they belonged to. He recognised one leg to be that of his grandmother, Soaad. The limbs were bur¬ied in a single grave in Beit Lahi-ya cemetery.
From the pile of rubble comes a smell of decomposing flesh. The family last week appealed to a leading Hamas official and to the head of the municipality to send a bulldozer so they can retrieve the rest of the bodies, to no avail.
The Consolidated Contractors Company estimates that the war left 2.5 million tonnes of rubble. But there are only two bulldozers in the entire Gaza Strip, says the economist Hamed Jad. "There were four before the war, but the Israelis bombed two," Jad explains.
Mohamed Wahdan lost two grandparents, his mother, four siblings and a niece in the house. His father, Hatem, who had been taken to Israel with Mohamed and five others, was killed in the August 3rd rocket attack that killed four more Wahdans in Jabaliya.
Khadija Wahdan (29) recounts the Jabaliya attack: "We were sleeping in two rooms. I was in the one where the rock¬ets exploded. I was surrounded by dead bodies. I called their names and they didn't answer. I ran outside with my face burning and my hair on fire. There was a cement block on my moth¬er's head..."
Mohamed Wahdan chain-smokes and shows little emotion. "I come here every day to talk to my family and to look for their things," he says, standing in the rubble. "I know they are below me when I'm here, and I tell them to rest in peace."

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 08 Sep 14 - 05:52 AM

supporting, actually or with your silence.

No one is supporting any atrocity, but explain why on a thread about IS you only post criticism of Israelis' behaviour while ignoring the far worse atrocities of the Caliphate.

No Jews no views?

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 08 Sep 14 - 05:54 AM

The Irish Times has published many reports about IS atrocities.
Why have you never pasted a single one Jim?

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 08 Sep 14 - 06:55 AM

"Why have you never pasted a single one Jim?"
Booboo has posted enough to rest most of us the rest of our lives.
You crowd have deliberately set out to make Muslims the enemy while at the same time reffusing to accept or respond t s ingle criticism of isreal
You take sides - we say they are as bad as one another - doesn't get mor complicated than that.
You put up onlu Isreali criticism - making Israeli atrocities "Jewish" makes you an anti-Semite
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Teribus
Date: 08 Sep 14 - 07:18 AM

Stop fighting, stop threatening Israel with annihilation and there will be peaceful co-existence and prosperity for all in the region.

Give it a go:

1: Egypt tried it and found that it worked
2: Jordan tried it and found that it worked
3: To a certain extent Mahmoud Abbas has tried it and has found in general terms that it works.

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 08 Sep 14 - 07:52 AM

Jim, this thread is about the Caliphate, so why post attacks on Israel while remaining silent about the horrific atrocities committed by the Caliphate?

Convince us it is not simply because there are no Jews in the Caliphate.

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 08 Sep 14 - 10:38 AM

I have not said any of those things.
I just asked why you endlessly and only criticise Israel while ignoring greater evil all around.
Even on threads not about Israel, like this one.

So, why do you do it?

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Musket
Date: 08 Sep 14 - 11:00 AM

I'm criticising you at this point.

And your mates.

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 08 Sep 14 - 11:44 AM

Avoiding the question.
I just asked why you endlessly and only criticise Israel while ignoring greater evil all around.
Even on threads not about Israel, like this one.

So, why do you do it?

Why did Jim ignore all the Irish Times reports on the Caliphate, but paste in one about Israel ?

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 08 Sep 14 - 12:06 PM

Keith, don't feed that potty-mouthed irrational little booby who calls himself Musket. He's like the little boy in the Duchess's song in Alice -- he only does it to annoy because he knows it teases. Just ignore his posts: don't even read them; I don't. Occasionally a word or two might obtrude as I scroll thru, but in general his hobby of abusing me is harmless AFAIAC, as his insults don't impinge. Or every now & then, maybe every 15th or so, I might read one just out of curiosity to see if it's still at it. I did notice somewhere back that he asseverated that I was getting senile. That from him; well har-har-har, that's the best laugh I've had for a while!

He claims to have a PhD but likes to present himself as ignorant as piggi-pooze. Wow, there is rational!

≈M≈

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 08 Sep 14 - 07:10 PM

The word "Palestine" is wrong at this link, but it clearly shows the continuing land grab by Israel. https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=historical+Israel+borders&espv=2&biw=1280&bih=677&tbm=isch&imgil=vCrgkPz-Vk73CM%253A%253BE4vXUeulg7itxM%253Bhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fwww.juancole.com%25252F2010%25252F03%25252Fmap-story-of-palestinian-nationhood.html&source=iu&fir=vCrgkPz-Vk73CM%253A%252CE4vXUeulg7itxM%252C_&usg=__vC2REyIxjMWz-lTXeMoncsVH8gI%3D&sa=X&ei=6zYOVKGDApDraJaYgdAL&ved=0CDUQ9QEwAw#facrc=_&imgdii=_&imgrc=vCrgkPz-Vk73CM%253A%3BE4vXUeulg7itxM%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.juancole.com%252Fimages-ext%252F2010%252F03%252Fmap-story-of-palestinian-nationhood.jpg%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.juancole.com%252F2010%252F03%252Fmap-story-of-palestinian-nationhood.html%3B809%3B539

More to follow

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 08 Sep 14 - 07:13 PM

Meanwhile - "Caliphate" - all theocracies are evil. Oh, that also goes for the stealth theocracy in Egypt where the Muslim Brotherhood pretended to be a civil government while planning not ethnic but religious cleansing. Army bad, but better than god-botherers.

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: bobad
Date: 08 Sep 14 - 08:23 PM

Incredible shrinking Israel

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 09 Sep 14 - 06:07 AM

"Jim, this thread is about the Caliphate, so why post attacks on Israel while remaining silent about the horrific atrocities committed by the Caliphate?"
I have not remained silent abut the Caliphate - on the contrary - I have directly attributed their rise to prominence to the West's refusal to help the Arab nations to modernise and to bring some semblance of democracy to their countries.
You, on the other hand, have supported the despots of these countries by opposing the idea that it is wrong to sell them weapons - even to the extent of suggesting that the worst of them, Assad, be supplied with weapons to suppress attempts at modernisation - a view you have continued to put forward.
"while ignoring greater evil all around." There is no greater evil than a religion inspired terrorist regime with nuclear capability and a will to expand.
"Convince us it is not simply because there are no Jews in the Caliphate."
This is not about "Jews" you Antisemitic shitbag - it is about the behaviour of a religion-inspired fascist state with the power to cause this planet to be blown to dust.
Those who hide behind a people who lost millions of their number to a regime not unsimilar to those ruling Israel at the present time by blaming the "Jews" for Israeli atrocities are scum, as are those who defend them.      
"Stop fighting, stop threatening Israel with annihilation and there will be peaceful co-existence and prosperity for all in the region."
Surrender and allow Israel to continue to take over or destroy the homes of Gazans and slaughter everyone who gets in the way of their objective of setting up an apartheid state appears to be what you are trying to say
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Teribus
Date: 09 Sep 14 - 07:49 AM

"Stop fighting, stop threatening Israel with annihilation and there will be peaceful co-existence and prosperity for all in the region." - Teribus

"Surrender and allow Israel to continue to take over or destroy the homes of Gazans and slaughter everyone who gets in the way of their objective of setting up an apartheid state appears to be what you are trying to say" - Christmas

Since 2005 and Israel's forced eviction of Israelis from Gaza what territorial gains in Gaza have been made by the Israelis?

What apartheid state is being set up and where? The civil rights and privileges of all are protected inside Israel's borders - the same cannot be said for those living under Hamas rule in Gaza

Since signing the Camp David Agreement with Egypt what territorial gains at the expense of the Egyptians have the Israelis made?

"I have not remained silent abut the Caliphate - on the contrary - I have directly attributed their rise to prominence to the West's refusal to help the Arab nations to modernise and to bring some semblance of democracy to their countries." - Christmas

And this is the West's responsibility how exactly? Who was responsible for helping us here in the big, bad, capitalist, "West" to modernise and become democratic? Because you see Christmas if all that was down to self help then the same applies to those Arab nations you are wittering on about, exactly as it was up to those Israelis - Big difference was that while the Israelis managed it quite successfully, the Arabs under leaders such as Tosser Arafat and his Uncle didn't primarily because those leaders were too damned busy getting rich.

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 09 Sep 14 - 08:12 AM

Jim, you have not attacked IS behaviour as you have Israel even on this thread!
Massacres.
You only rage about them if you think you can blame Israel.
Beheadings.
Mass Executions.
Enslavement of women.

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 09 Sep 14 - 08:34 AM

"Jim, you have not attacked IS behaviour as you have Israel even on this thread!"
I have made my view of ISIS clear - an extremist, terrorist organisation.
I have never uttered a word of support for what they do, I have placed the blame for the them having the power that they have where t belongs
Unlike you, I do not differentiate between one form of religion inspired terrorism - I recognise it for what it is - extreme terrorism - all the same.
"You only rage about them if you think you can blame Israel."
Fuck off Keith.
"what territorial gains in Gaza have been made by the Israelis?"
Israel has just scuppered the possibility of a two state solution with its announcement of the seizure of one thousand acres of land for settlements
Israel have been systematically been driving Be#douins off their lands with chemical weapons and water cannons in order to bulid settlements
Israel is in the process of becoming an apartheid state - no surprise that they tried to sell nuclear weapons to Apartheid South Africa
How about responding to some of those facts me little chocolate soldier?
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 09 Sep 14 - 11:47 AM

You do not rage against IS atrocities but endlessly attack Israel, even on unrelated threads like this one.

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Musket
Date: 09 Sep 14 - 11:56 AM

Michael claims to have a teapot for that matter, but like his brain, the output has an important element missing.

I doubt my academic credentials help me in these threads Michael. I doubt your posts helps the threads for that matter.

Give my regards to your newsagent eh?

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 09 Sep 14 - 12:11 PM

I just asked why you endlessly and only criticise Israel while ignoring greater evil all around.

You don't realise what you've finally admitted, do you, Keith? :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 09 Sep 14 - 12:25 PM

It would be so nice to have the remotest idea of what old uno-who is on about re my teapot & my newsagent; anyone any idea? assuming anybody cares! But, please sir, he's trying to wind me up again and he's a hobbible big BULLY trying to wind poor little me up all the time when he knows how I hate being wound up it makes me all tense and sad and, er, well - wound up, so don't let him do it any more please sir or I'll THCWEAM the forum down. I will. I can....

aaaaaarrrrrrgggggggghhhhhhh!!!!!

☺☺☺☺☺☺☺☺☺☺☺☺☺☺☺☺☺☺☺☺☺☺☺

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 09 Sep 14 - 02:03 PM

I'm a bit puzzled about the Xtian fundie god-botherers here. Is anyone defending IS or Boko Haram or Al-Shabbab? So no need to shout at people who are not here. A lot of the Xtian fundie god-botherers, and some career menschen seem to want to defend Israel's claim to lebensraum. So there is a need to shout at them.

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 09 Sep 14 - 06:16 PM

No one is supporting them, but they are not subject to endless attack like Israel is.
Neither are neighbours like Syria, Egypt and Hamas.
Why the bias?

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 09 Sep 14 - 10:20 PM

It is dealing with the arguments presented. You and a small coterie defend Israel. Thus there is something to argue about. Nobody is defending IS etc so there is nothing to shout about there. Some of you try to smear Islam by association and then there is something to shout about. Simple.

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Teribus
Date: 10 Sep 14 - 02:26 AM

"I have never uttered a word of support for what they do" - Christmas

And significantly not a single word of outright condemnation either Christmas

"I have placed the blame for the them having the power that they have where t belongs" - Christmas

You apparently think that the fault is OURS - Well Christmas old son IT AIN'T

Christmas if you cannot answer a simple and direct question why not just state that? The answer of course to my question relating to the   territorial gains (Taking over the homes of Gazans) you claim has happened is that there have been none. The borders of GAZA have remained the same since the unilateral and complete withdrawal of the Israelis in 2005 - That by the way Christmas is a fact - and if those in Gaza want the borders open and the blockade lifted then all they have to do is stop attacking Israel - It really is THAT SIMPLE.

No apartheid state - not now, not in the past and not in the future - Same cannot be said for those who "govern" the Caliphate - but no Jews so no news eh Christmas?

You seem to have a penchant for living in the past Christmas - fancy in 2014 quoting alleged past co-operation between Israel and South Africa which ended 25 years ago as being relevant today? I'd call that idiotic.

"You and a small coterie defend Israel. Thus there is something to argue about." - Richard Bridge

You deny Israel the right of self-defence?

"Nobody is defending IS etc so there is nothing to shout about there." - Richard Bridge

Nobody is condemning them either are they Richard, condemnation on this forum is reserved for the big,bad west and for Israel - all others irrespective of the atrocities they commit are given a free ride.

"Some of you try to smear Islam by association and then there is something to shout about. Simple." - Richard Bridge

What IS do is done in the name of Islam Richard so it is IS who besmirches the name of Islam - seen the latest IS flag burning craze amongst moderate Muslims Richard?

"some career menschen seem to want to defend Israel's claim to lebensraum. So there is a need to shout at them." - Richard Bridge

I find your use of the word "lebenstraum" rather offensive but that was your deliberate intent wasn't it? But there again Richard you have never lived in a small country surrounded by it's enemies all calling for and threatening your annihilation. A small country that for the last nine years has been subjected to a barrage of thousands of projectiles and rockets aimed indiscriminately at sections of your civilian population - which is why you witter on about "Israel's claim to lebenstraum" - I personally would call it Israel's right of self-defence. I would sincerely hope that if I lived in Dover and the French launched as much as one single missile at the community in which I lived that the British Government would do something about it - wouldn't you? But we are not talking about one single missile here Richard are we? We are talking about thousands launched over a protracted period - so get your head out of your arse and accept that if Israel is attacked it is perfectly justified in striking back - that is called self-defence.

But to get back to this "lebenstraum" thing of yours. There happens to be an enormous flaw in your argument. I previously asked Christmas to show me any map of what the Palestine Authority/Hamas/Fatah/Hezbollah/Islamic Jihad perceived as being the borders for this "Two State" solution which they say they are fighting for. All I got from Christmas was "Fuck the maps". I now challenge you to come up with a map that shows what the Arabs of Palestine say would be "their" country. I won't hold out any hope of ever seeing one because the map does not exist because they have no interest whatsoever in a two state solution.

Simply put, because the Arabs of Palestine rejected the UN's offer in 1947 there are no recognised borders. The Arabs of Palestine were given their "homeland" for their exclusive use in 1923 (77% of the Mandate of Palestine) they rejected the UN's proposal in 1947 because they wanted more, and after their humiliating defeat in 1967 they then wanted it all - that remains as being the case today.

By the way Richard if you doubt me on there being "no borders" just read through all the past ceasefires brokered by the UN and broken by the Arabs and you will find common to all that the ceasefires are agreed with the exception of them constituting in any way acceptance of borders. So the next time you hear any Palestinian spokesperson talking about 1967 borders just remember that no such border exists to define any state of Israel or any State of Palestine. Besides the 1967 borders defined borders between Israel, Egypt + Egyptian occupied Palestine, Jordan + Jordanian occupied Palestine, Syria and Lebanon. And should there ever be a lasting agreement, the one thing that you will be able to guarantee will be that Israel will be defined by borders she can defend.

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 10 Sep 14 - 04:22 AM

Richard, these exchanges always start with an attack on Israel.
Those responsible never attack any other groups in the same way.
When others do, they raise the issue of Israel anyway.

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 10 Sep 14 - 04:34 AM

"And significantly not a single word of outright condemnation either Christmas"
As far as \I am concerned, describing these people as extremist murderous nutters is outright enough for me
You crowd hape openly supported Israeli terrorism, the use of chemiccal weapons and heavy artillery on civilians, you have defended Israel's role in facilitating the massacre of three and a half thousand unarmed refugees.... and you have done so using the argument that the Palestinian people have no right to the land they have occupied for thousands of years.
I recently posted a cutting describing the effects some of the weapons have had on people - particularly children - their flesh turned to jelly, new corpses mummified - not a peep from you or yours.
ISIS has been the product of inaction on the part of the West - that is the subject that needs to be discussed - our Government's part in the creation of a maniacal religion-driven force that threatens world peace.
You have chosen to discuss ISIS as a means of attacking Muslims and their religion as a whole - that is why you don't get any takers to your campaign - not because anybody supports ISIS but because we don't want to be part of your Islamophobic shit.
Of course these people are dangerous - so is Israel - even more so because it has the support of powers like America, who are just as capable of using terrorism to fulfill their own ends
What also makes Israel a greater threat is that even though it is ruled by an extremist right-wing regime, it is now being claimed that the majority of Israelis don't believe it to be right-wing enough and what has just happened in Gaza didn't go far enough - that is what puts the shits up me far more than the potential threat to Britain and the West from ISIS.   
To top all this - Israel has nuclear weapons - if it hadn't been for an Israeli hero Mordechai Vanunu, we would be totally unaware of this fact - see below.
You people have taken the side of a killer terrorist regime with a nuclear weapon and you have the gall to accuse us of taking sides by not speaking out loud enough against a bunch of nutters little different from the extremists you shout for and a damn sight more dangerous
What are you people on?
Jim Carroll      

"Vanunu spent 18 years in prison, including more than 11 in solitary confinement. Released from prison in 2004, he became subject to a broad array of restrictions on his speech and movement. Since then he has been arrested several times for violations of those restrictions, including giving various interviews to foreign journalists and attempting to leave Israel. He says he suffered "cruel and barbaric treatment" at the hands of Israeli authorities while imprisoned, and suggests that his treatment would have been different if he had not converted to Christianity from Judaism.[6]
In 2007, Vanunu was sentenced to six months in prison for violating terms of his parole. The sentence was considered unusual even by the prosecution who expected a suspended sentence. In response, Amnesty International issued a press release on 2 July 2007, stating that "The organisation considers Mordechai Vanunu to be a prisoner of conscience and calls for his immediate and unconditional release."[7] In May 2010, Vanunu was arrested and sentenced to three months in jail on a charge that he met foreigners in violation of conditions of his 2004 release from jail."

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Teribus
Date: 10 Sep 14 - 05:59 AM

Your typical hysterical rant in response there I see Christmas. Do you have them stored? You should it would save you a great deal of time and effort.

Care to name some democratic countries in the region? I mean apart from Israel.

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 10 Sep 14 - 06:47 AM

Can anyone believe or explain why BBC has done this?!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-29120308

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 10 Sep 14 - 08:56 AM

Posted in haste.
I thought he was someone still being held.

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: bobad
Date: 10 Sep 14 - 09:06 AM

The use of of words such as lebenstraum [sic] and other Nazi era terminology and allusions in the context of Israel by the usual Jew haters is indeed offensive, it is also a libel and marks the users for what they are.

Teribus is 100% correct in stating that there is no such thing as the 1967 borders, what there is is the so called "Green line" which is the demarcation line set out in the 1949 Armistice Agreements between Israel and its neighbors (Egypt, Jordan, Lebanon and Syria) after the 1948 Arab–Israeli War. It is also used to mark the line between Israel and the territories captured in the Six-Day War, including the West Bank, Gaza Strip, Golan Heights and Sinai Peninsula.

The original armistice agreements were clear (at Arab insistence) that they were not creating permanent borders. The Egyptian-Israeli agreement stated "The Armistice Demarcation Line is not to be construed in any sense as a political or territorial boundary, and is delineated without prejudice to rights, claims and positions of either Party to the Armistice as regards ultimate settlement of the Palestine question." From Wiki.

The territorial boundary or border will be determined by negotiation when the Palestinians accept a two state solution.

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Teribus
Date: 11 Sep 14 - 01:53 AM

""I have made it clear that we will hunt down terrorists who threaten our country, wherever they are. That means I will not hesitate to take action against ISIL in Syria, as well as Iraq," - Barack Obama: 10-09-2014

No safe haven.

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: akenaton
Date: 11 Sep 14 - 01:45 PM

"That means I will not hesitate to take action against ISIL in Syria, as well as Iraq,"

Although I would like to see the decapitators wiped out, this is a very dangerous course for us all.
Mr Obama could sanction bombing of president Assads forces as well as IS, bringing us into another confrontation with Russia.

Russia backed Assad because he was prepared to stand up to the Islamist Militias,   the FSA was simply a cover or at best "useful idiots" for the extremists.
If the West removes Assad under cover of an attack on the Islamists, the results could be grave.

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: akenaton
Date: 11 Sep 14 - 01:49 PM

Islamic fundamentalism is even more of a danger to Russia, than it is to America.

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 11 Sep 14 - 03:04 PM

"The use of of words such as lebenstraum [sic] and other Nazi era terminology and allusions in the context of Israel by the usual Jew haters is indeed offensive,"

"THE HOLOCAUST MAKES ISREAL THINK INTERNATIONAL LAW DOESN'T APPLY TO THEM
Lara Marlow in Tel Aviv
Irish Times Thursday 11th September

JOURNALIST GIDEON LEVY IS ISRAELS MOST OUTSPOKEN CRITIC OF ITS WAR ON GAZA
Gideon Levy is preaching in the wilderness. Week after week, the columnist for Haaretz news¬paper tells his compatriots what they do not want to hear: that the siege of Gaza and the occupation of the West Bank are immoral and counter-pro¬ductive; that the continued sei¬zure of Palestinian land and the construction of settlements is a "criminal enterprise" intended to foil any chance for peace.
"What Israeli interest does it serve to put two million people in a cage?" Levy asks. "Tens of thousands of Palestinian chil¬dren will never forget what Isra¬el has done to them and their parents in this [July 8th-August 26th] war. That is something Is¬rael should have taken into ac¬count: another generation of ha¬tred like never before, and very justified hatred."
Levy is grateful to Amos Schocken, the third-generation owner of Haaretz, for standing by him. Some 2,000 readers cancelled subscriptions be¬cause of his July 14th column criticising Israeli air force pi¬lots who bombed Gaza. "They have never seen an enemy plane coming toward them," Levy wrote. "They never saw the whites of the eyes and the red blood of their victims . . . They are heroes battling the weakest, most helpless peo¬ple ..."
Israeli leaders portray their war on Hamas as a fight against terrorism. "Any Palestinian terrorist would rather sit in an Apache helicopter or an F16 and fly over Tel Aviv and push a button to bomb civilians," Levy replies. "Nobody would call it terrorism. Terror is always the weapon of the weak."

TREASON ACCUSATION
During the war, Levy was threatened, heckled and spat upon. Haaretz hired body¬guards to protect him. Yariv Levin, the leader of the Likud Yisrael Beiteinu coalition in the Knesset, said he should be tried for treason, which carries the death penalty in time of war.
"Nobody condemned Lev¬in," Levy says. "That tells you a lot about Israeli democracy
Irael's supporters boast that it is "the only democracy in the Mid¬dle East".
"By definition, an occupying state is not a democracy," Levy says. "Israel was always a full and liberal democracy for its Jewish citizens. It was a partial democracy for its Arab citizens, and a totalitarian tyranny in the West Bank and Gaza. In this war, I started to think it is not even a full democracy for its Jewish citizens; only for those who think like the majority."
Opinion polls showed that up to 95 per cent of Israelis sup¬ported the assault on Gaza. While attention focused on Gaza, the Israel Defence Forces killed 20 adults and three children in the West Bank, mostly during demonstrations against the war in Gaza. Israeli soldiers wounded 2,218 people, 38 per cent of them with live fire.
"In the West Bank, you see the real face of the IDF, the so-called most moral army in the world," Levy says. "You can't claim those soldiers' lives were in danger. You can't claim there were tunnels and rockets and terrorists. But look how they killed."
During the first intifada (1987-1993),_a Palestinian woman who tried to reach a materni¬ty hospital in East Jerusalem was turned round at three Israe¬li checkpoints, and gave birth in a car. "It was cold and stormy," Levy recalls. "She begged the soldiers to take the baby to hos¬pital. They refused. Eventually, she carried the baby, and it died." The incident marked a turning point for Levy. "I could believe there were bad soldiers at one checkpoint. But three? I realised their inhumanity was not an exception, but deeply rooted policy. Ninety nine per cent of Israelis do not see Pales¬tinians as human beings like themselves."
Impunity is a huge problem, Levy says. "Soldiers know that nothing will happen to them if they kill a 10-year-old child like a cockroach."
Israeli officials invariably an¬nounce they are investigating. "It's a joke," says Levy. "A way| of buying time until people for¬get. Nobody takes it seriously. I The army investigates itself?
You have to have a sense of hu¬mour."
On a national level, "Golda Meir said that after the Holo¬caust, Jews have the right to do anything they want," Levy con¬tinues. "The Holocaust makes Israelis think international law doesn't apply to them, because they are the ultimate victims of history; the only victims."
Israel killed more than 1,400 Palestinians in Gaza in Decem¬ber 2008-January 2009. "I was sure that Israel would never dare do it again," Levy says. "That the international commu¬nity would not let them do it again. But this time, it was even more brutal. Israel feels, right¬ly, that no one will stop it. They believe the only language Ar¬abs understand is the language of force. It never works."
Levy believes a "two-state so¬lution" has become impossible, because 700,000 settlers are the most powerful force in Israe¬li politics. Israel and the West Bank "are already one state with two regimes," he says. Op¬ponents of a single state for Is¬raelis and Palestinians say Isra¬el would lose its Jewish charac¬ter. "Where were you all those years when you could have saved the Jewish state by going for a two-state solution?" he asks. "We've missed that train. The struggle now should be for equal rights for Palestinians in one state."
Westerners should support the "Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions" campaign, he ar¬gues, "because there won't be a change from within, because Is¬rael will not be punished for the occupation, because in South Africa it was very effective ... It's the only way to shake Israe¬lis out of their blindness and in¬difference."

HISTORY OF ATROCITIES
When Israel drove more than 700,000 Palestinians from their homes in 1948, "There were many atrocities, some avoidable, some not," Levy says. "The problem is that 1948 never ended. Israel never changed its attitude towards Palestinian rights. Therefore, 1948 is today; 1948 is the confis¬cation of 4,000 dunums [988 acres] on August 31th; 1948 is Gaza."
Levy's parents emigrated from the Sudetenland and Czechoslovakia in 1939. He has lived his entire life in Tel Aviv. "I am very attached to this place. I struggle to make it more just, unsuccessfully, but the struggle has some meaning for me."

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 11 Sep 14 - 03:45 PM

To settle it semantically, please. It is LEBENSRAUM [=living-space]. LEBENSTRAUM would mean 'dream of life'.

≈M≈

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 11 Sep 14 - 05:29 PM

Israel democratic, Teribus? You mean, like South Africa under apartheid was democratic, for whites? Like Rhodesia under Iain Smith was democratic, for whites? That kind of democratic? Do you think the Arab second-class citizenry in Israel, that nation which prides itself on calling itself a Jewish state, or the Palestinian families divided by the apartheid wall, or the people made to wait for three days at road-blocks, would agree with your take on what makes a country "democratic"?

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Mrrzy
Date: 11 Sep 14 - 09:37 PM

It's a jewish state democratic for the jews... Kind of like the US is democratic for... wait. Oops. Never minnd.

Jordan is a kingdom but their king has been on The Daily Show, so he can't be all bad...

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 12 Sep 14 - 01:31 AM

Unlike old S Africa, all citizens of Israel, Arab and Jew, have equal rights.
The wall was built as a lesser evil, to stop the incursion of mass murdering suicide bombers and as such has been a success.
It will come down as soon as that threat is lifted.

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 12 Sep 14 - 01:35 AM

Once again an unrelated thread has been hijacked to attack Israel and prevent discussion of the Caliphate which unprejudiced people like Obama recognise as the real threat to the region and the world.

Why do you people always and only attack Israel while ignoring the far worse behaviour of its neighbours?

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 12 Sep 14 - 03:39 AM

&, as you say, "once again" --

We know what the answer to that really is, don't we, Keith?

&, hohum-'once·again'-hohum


They think it isn't but it is...

≈M≈

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 12 Sep 14 - 04:24 AM

"Care to name some democratic countries in the region? I mean apart from Israel."
Care to name a country in the region deliberately creating an Apartheid state - and using heave artillery and chemial weapons to acheive those ends?
I tend to go with Issac Newton on the difference between democracy and freedom:
"Democracy is a lamb and two wolves discussing what they are going to have for dinner.
Freedom is when the lamb takes up a gun and says, "it ain't gonna be me".
Israel is as great a threat to world peace as ISIS - the fact that they have the wherewithal to blow us all to smithereens makes them even more so, and the facts of the number of people they have just slaughtered (mainly non combatants), the homes and facilities they have destroyed and their continued aggression and land seizure showws that they have no regard for the lives and well-being of anybody who gets in their way.
The fact that both isreal and ISIS are driven by a religion-based mission makes them an inseparable subject which you peole are happy to discuss until your stupidity, bigotry and ignorance lands you in the klarts.
Live with it
Jim Carroll