BS: UK Boy Tortured/Murdered

Subject: RE: BS: UK Boy Tortured/Murdered
From: Joe Offer
Date: 05 Mar 12 - 10:17 PM

In the Catholic Church, it's seems that it's only the extreme conservatives who believe in witchcraft and the occult. They get all hot and bothered about how horrible it is. I wonder what they think of the rest of us, who simply don't believe in it and therefore don't care.

I've even heard people talking in hushed tones about the occult on Catholic television and radio. The only thought that comes to my mind is, "What a bunch of hooey!"

-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: UK Boy Tortured/Murdered
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 06 Mar 12 - 01:38 AM

Jim, my post you claim was anti-African, and quoted from, was 04 Mar 12 - 11:25 AM

Eliza was kind enough to say that she agreed with that post, and she is beyond suspicion.
You owe us both an apology.

Please stick to the debate, not making a case against me, again.
This, of all threads, does not require your "nausing it up" again.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Boy Tortured/Murdered
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Mar 12 - 04:14 AM

Well said Keith A.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Boy Tortured/Murdered
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 06 Mar 12 - 04:24 AM

"Eliza was kind enough to say" Will you please stop using Eliza as a human shield. Do not hide behind other people's statements and try making a few of your own for a change. Whether I agree with her or not, I don't "suspect" Eliza of anything other than of giving an honest opinion - she always has. On the other hand, with your track record, I can't say the same for you. I seem to remember that you hid behind a politician (of all professions) who was "above suspicion" when you made your outrageous "all British Pakistanis" statement. Nobody has all the answers to these questions; that's why we take part in these discussions, otherwise we may as well sit on our hands and wait for the next all-encompassing pronouncement to come along. For somebody who has consistently lied about my personal affiliations, has been caught out in those lies, yet has refused to either withdraw or apologise (see Homs thread) I find a demand for an apology somewhat...... breathtaking, to say the least. "Please stick to the debate" And once more stop skulking behind thread drift and accusations of "anti-British" and ignoring evidence put before you - you are not a forum adjudicator Make your argument - your own argument and not somebody elses. I have asked you that you do not make this another argument between the two of us MAKE YOUR POINTS TO EVERYBODY HERE, NOT JUST MEand let everybody take part. If I am proved wrong, I will concede and apologise if necessary - prove me wrong by making your argument Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: UK Boy Tortured/Murdered
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 06 Mar 12 - 04:44 AM

I made some factual, objective statements.
Not anti-anyone.
Respond to them by all means.
Do not bring other threads into this one or make personal attacks.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Boy Tortured/Murdered
From: GUEST,CS
Date: 06 Mar 12 - 05:29 AM

Jim et al, apologies for my undignified outburst yesterday. I overreacted to a number of comments, which were I'm sure, not intended to diminish or deny in any way the suffering of these children.

While I think it is difficult to discuss such topics, I think I should retract my last statement, as of course it's essential to discuss them, even where there may be those who would seek to use the suffering of innocent victims of abuse, to bolster undesirable and divisive ideologies. I saw one post in this thread which was such a blinding example of that, that I preferred not to acknowledge it with a response.

Richard, I currently have no active email account I'm afraid (the last became so overwhelmed with Spam that I gave up on it). Otherwise, I trust you are well, and I shall see you no doubt this Summer, whereupon I will endevour to remember to ask for further enlightenment re: dog-whistles.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Boy Tortured/Murdered
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 06 Mar 12 - 06:00 AM

"Do not bring other threads into this one or make personal attacks. "
I have done neither - your attitude to race is on record here and on other threads, and everything I have written here is about the subject in hand - the damage that religion can do if used badly or maliciously.
As I said, you are not an overseer of this thread - if you wish to be one apply in writing to the Forum Fairy Headquarters
CS - no apology necessary, certainly not to someone who loses his rag as much as I do.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: UK Boy Tortured/Murdered
From: Musket
Date: 06 Mar 12 - 06:52 AM

I suggest everybody reads the mud slinging and irrelevant crap by members above.

This thread was supposed to be about awful fatal child abuse, using superstition as the motive to unleash that worst of instinctive human traits, power over others.

Instead, the tangents everybody is going off on reflects the similar drift society is guilty of, and then we stand in astonishment when nothing has been done to lessen the risk of such things happening again.

We truly are a representative sample of society at large. More interested in claiming somebody else disagrees with you rather than what the disagreement is about.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Boy Tortured/Murdered
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 06 Mar 12 - 08:13 AM

I think you are missing the OP's point - and to show that I am serious I will call you "Mather".

Subject: RE: BS: UK Boy Tortured/Murdered
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 06 Mar 12 - 08:16 AM

Ian Mather is quite right and once again I find myself having to apologise for my part in these stupid arguments - whenever Keith and I find ourselves on the same thread we invariably end up at he opposite end of the spectrum, which always seems to degenerate into a head-to-head between us - can't say it won't happen again, but for me it stops here as far as this thread is concerned. On this subject - there are two alternatives as I see them - that this apalling event is a religious matter and can (and has) happened everywhere and throughout history - this is the explanation as far as I'm concerned. The other is that it is a racial matter brought about by immigrants (from Africa - wherever that is) and has to be treated and cured as such. The danger of accepting the latter is that is is open to abuse by those who would use 'foreigners' as an explanation for all our ills - as indicated here in a number of postings. Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: UK Boy Tortured/Murdered
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 06 Mar 12 - 08:38 AM

Good.
I can stop refuting your false accusations if you stop making them.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Boy Tortured/Murdered
From: GUEST,CS
Date: 06 Mar 12 - 10:05 AM

I thought this Guardian article concerning the "toxic" role of Christian belief in current African (principally Congolese) beliefs about witchcraft. It would seem that particular (and thus significant to these cases of violence against children so 'possessed') aspects of African folk belief about witchcraft concerning "possession by spirits", were actually imported from Western Pentecostal missionaries:

"In their present form, beliefs in witchcraft are not "traditional" – changes since earlier times are obvious. Modern beliefs see the power of witchcraft as emanating from evil spirits that possess the witch and endow him or her with the power to harm. This belief in possession by evil spirits has been promulgated in Africa by western missionaries of fundamentalist, particularly Pentecostal, Christian beliefs."

Furthermore, belief in the possession of *children* in particular by evil spirits also represents a recent change from traditional African folk beliefs about witchcraft.

"A recent change is the accusation of children, who may be singled out by parents or other caretaking adults for a variety of reasons that distinguish them from among others in the household: bad dreams, bed-wetting, children who are cleverer or stupider, who have different likes and dislikes – almost anything can be the symptom of a possessing evil spirit. Often, the accused are outsiders – either stepchildren or refugees in the chaotic postwar Congolese state; trafficked children or child soldiers"

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/belief/2012/mar/01/witchcraft-curse-africa-kristy-bamu

Subject: RE: BS: UK Boy Tortured/Murdered
From: GUEST,CS
Date: 06 Mar 12 - 12:41 PM

This piece looks at the modern epidemic of witchcraft accusations in the Democratic republic of Congo, from it's urban roots in mid 1990's DRC to the present. It makes the argument that changes in traditional beliefs about witchcraft and the blurring of boundaries between adult and child roles in society, means the future for great numbers Congolese children, looks no less worrying than at present.

http://www.congonova.org/revue/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=186:the-future-of-child-witchcraft-in-drc&catid=36:a


"Today, an estimated 50,000 children accused of witchcraft live on the streets of Congo's largest cities. While not all street children (shege) have been accused of practicing sorcery, the majority of these children are believed to possess this dangerous power.[1] Today, witchcraft accusations have reached epidemic proportions in DRC, primarily targeting youth in urban areas (Cimpric 2010; Tate 2006).

The accusation of children is a relatively new phenomenon, first appearing in cities in the mid-1990s (de Boeck 2009; Tate 2006; Molina 2006). Before then, it was believed that children could receive witchcraft, but that the power would not reach its full form until adulthood. While adult accusations most often result in ostracism and stigmatization, today's child witches may endure a variety of physical abuses in addition before being sent to an église de réveil (Revivalist Church) for a deliverance ritual or being cast from the home (Molina 2006)."

[...]

"What is the future of child witchcraft in DRC? Many have suggested that when the economic and social situations improve, églises de réveil will decrease in prominence and children will no longer bear the brunt of witchcraft accusations. While I am certain that improvement in the social situation will decrease the prevalence of accused children, I am hesitant to propose the adoption of such an optimistic view.

Children were once believed incapable of possessing witchcraft in its full form, and thus, unable to exercise significant harm through witchcraft. Today, images of the child witch dominate the public imagination. Stories of enfants sorciers with superhuman capabilities fill dialogue within charismatic churches and inspire testimonials in pamphlets and on radio shows dedicated to discussions of good, evil, and the supernatural. People now believe that children can possess witchcraft in its full, destructive form. The elder, widowed witch of villages has a new companion—the child of the streets, equally suited to conduct nefarious activities of the night. Even if the social motivations for accusation improve, children now comprise part of the publicly imagined "witch." I predict children will continue to play a prominent role in the ongoing narrative of what it means to be a witch in Congolese society, as they join in a historical trajectory marked by an increasingly pejorative understanding of the term "witch" and expanding views of who can have the power of witchcraft."

Subject: RE: BS: UK Boy Tortured/Murdered
From: GUEST,999
Date: 06 Mar 12 - 07:35 PM

We have created a generation of feral kids. In different places they dress differently or act differently, but make no mistake: they are feral. It is no longer the usual mistrust of youth for adults or the dislike of youth for authority. I first noticed the 'phenomena' about thirty years ago in Kingsway Mall in Edmonton.

I hadn't been to that particular mall in about two years. They'd done some construction on it, added pieces on, and I was lost. I saw a group of kids and approached them seeking directions. While walking over I noticed the stares and glares of various adults passing by--directed at the kids. The kids were different, each making his or her statement of independence in terms of dress, hair style, jewelry, meaning boots with steel caps, spiked hair and staples or studs in noses, eyebrows or ears, etc. Anyway, as I approached they seemed to get a group-look of "What the fuck have we done NOW?" I said, "HI. Could you guys and gals please tell me how to find such-and-such a store? I am completely lost."

Well, try to listen to seven kids giving you directions all at once. I started laughing and so did they. The male leader of the group and the female leader of the group decided that it would be easier to walk me there, and they did. They managed to bum a few smokes, but we had a decent talk along the way. I made it a habit to go there about once a week, and until I left Edmonton, I'd usually meet a few on my visits. I learned all their names and they called me by mine: Bruce. Nice people. But they had home lives that most of us wouldn't want. These kids aren't our enemies, they are our children, and imo, we have let them down.

We have certainly let down this kid, because he died and we had to read about it in some friggin' newspaper. That is tragic. YMMV.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Boy Tortured/Murdered
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 07 Mar 12 - 03:00 AM

""toxic" role of Christian belief"
Religion, not race - or what?
Jim Carroll
http://religionversusmedicine.blogspot.com/2010/05/christian-medical-fellowship-and.html

Subject: RE: BS: UK Boy Tortured/Murdered
From: GUEST,CS
Date: 07 Mar 12 - 03:14 AM

"We have certainly let down this kid, because he died and we had to read about it in some friggin' newspaper. That is tragic. YMMV."

Absolutely. However, one would hope, that there are lessons to be learned for all involved. According to a number of pieces I've read it would seem that African migrant community in the UK - specifically Congolese migrants, need to learn how to be more open about this subject as it has hitherto, remained unspoken of outside of that community. That is not to say there is any dark conspiracy of silence as such, but that clearly migrant communities tend to hold together, possibly for fear of persecution or ejection by the host nation.

There needs to be educational work with Congolese migrants and a focus of care for Congolese children at risk of this kind of abuse - at present there is no system in place here to identify children from different African countries, they are all simply lumped together as "African".

There needs to be some kind of crackdown on the crooked faith leaders who provide 'exorcisms' for cash in this country. And as AFRUCA has called for (linked to below) the branding of children as witches, should be criminalised.

No doubt many other things too. But that is some of what I have gleaned thus far.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Boy Tortured/Murdered
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 07 Mar 12 - 03:39 AM

Why mention race?
It is not an issue, why try to make it one?

Subject: RE: BS: UK Boy Tortured/Murdered
From: GUEST,CS
Date: 07 Mar 12 - 03:56 AM

For what Congolese faith organisations are currently doing to tackle the problem of 'witchcraft' abuse in the Congolese community here in the UK, see this article from an online Christian magazine called "Inspire".

It strikes me that as particular beliefs about child possession have been promulgated by fundamentalist Christian missionaries, the Church itself is probably ideally placed to address such dangerous beliefs among Congolese Christians.

All supposing the report is accurate of course, the initiative sounds promising:

"Congolese churches pledge to protect children from abuse

The Congolese Church Pastorship: "must now ensure that its robust new child protection procedures are cascaded down to influence Congolese churches - in the UK, Europe and the rest of the World. In particular, all leaders and children's' workers must now receive appropriate child protection training".

That was the message from David Pearson, Executive Director of the Churches' Child Protection Advisory Services (CCPAS) as more than 200 Congolese church leaders gathered in the presence of Children's Minister Beverley Hughes to pledge the best possible protection for the children in their congregations.

The pledge - Congolese pastors working together to safeguard our children - was signed at a major event in a church in north London in early June. It was organised by CCPAS in partnership with the Congolese Pastorship UK and was also attended by senior representatives from the Metropolitan Police and the DFES.

The Pastorship was founded 18 months ago as a response to allegations of child abuse connected to a small number of churches within the Congolese community. Since then, Congolese church leaders of all denominations have actively been working together with CCPAS, the Metropolitan Police and local authorities to ensure that churches affiliated to the Pastorship provide the optimum protection for their children and encourage churches not yet affiliated to follow their example.

Beverley Hughes, Children's Minister said: "This pledge to put a new priority on child protection is a very welcome move from the Congolese Pastorship. I'm very pleased that they have worked so closely with us and the London child protection agencies on this.

"It is imperative that we all work together to reduce the risk of harm to children and to ensure that proper action is taken to intervene when necessary. It is the least our children deserve."

David Pearson commented: "The Children's Minister has come to see for herself the giant strides that have been made by Congolese churches across the spectrum in terms of developing and implementing the best possible standards of child protection.

"In that context, it is essential that the few - very atypical - cases that have arisen are not seen as acceptable by African churches in general - the overwhelming majority of which have no truck whatsoever with child abuse of any description.

"Today's pledge-signing event proves that good safeguarding standards are being promoted in Congolese churches and their leaders are being encouraged to work with the statutory agencies wherever there are concerns. In so doing, it is not only beneficial to each and every church involved, but it will help isolate and expose any group that may be in danger of putting children at risk."

Subject: RE: BS: UK Boy Tortured/Murdered
From: Musket
Date: 07 Mar 12 - 05:52 AM

Bridge..

I have looked at the OP and can't quite see your point. The OP is known to have views that certainly provoke debate, but the link is to the subject I was addressing in my last post?

I'd like to say I'm being serious too, although that's more to do with the gravity of the subject matter rather than Bridge baiting, which has become difficult since you started agreeing with me on many matters. (Darwin at large - see appropriate thread.)

Subject: RE: BS: UK Boy Tortured/Murdered
From: GUEST,CS
Date: 07 Mar 12 - 01:33 PM

Mmm, as most of us are subject to a very limited understanding of this phenomena, strikes me we should all ideally endevour to refrain from crude assertions concerning it - and particularly concerning the assignment of blanket blame, which smacks of bigoted and blinkered thinking, whether specifically singling out race, culture OR religion IMO - and most particularly where such assertions are intended to provoke adversarial reactions from others, because that's just crappy. Real children, not ideas, are currently at risk of a specific kind of abuse. I don't like to see them tossed about like hot potatoes who no-one wants to own.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Boy Tortured/Murdered
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 07 Mar 12 - 01:59 PM

"OR religion IMO"
Can see and agree with most of your point, but surely religion is difficult to avoid given the "exorcism" involvement
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: UK Boy Tortured/Murdered
From: GUEST,CS
Date: 07 Mar 12 - 02:24 PM

Jim, I agree that religious belief evidently represents a significant contributing factor. What appears to be the case here, is the "bolting on" (to borrow a phrase used previously) of specific Pentecostal religious beliefs about 'spirit possession' onto pre-existent and popularly held African folk beliefs about witchcraft.

As a number of others have articulated both here and in articles available on-line, numerous other factors such as poverty, war-torn crisis in the region and the blurring in adult / child roles within African society, have also contributed to the current epidemic of child witchcraft accusations in DRC (there are currently around 50'000 homeless urban child 'witches', according to one Guardian piece linked to below).

Nigeria has also been cited as a country within Africa similarly plagued - though as yet I've to follow up links on stories concerning Nigerian 'witchcraft' one would presume a similar constellation of factors would be involved there also.

Despite the fact that one may argue that religion has evidently played a key role in these cases, I feel it would be unhelpful to simply go pointing fingers at "Christianity" per se, particularly where there is evidence to show that faith leaders within the Congolese community in the UK, have long-since mobilised in order to attempt to address this issue.

I would suggest that what such groups require is support for their existing endevours, rather than (to borrow a turn of phrase) further witch-hunts.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Boy Tortured/Murdered
From: GUEST,CS
Date: 07 Mar 12 - 02:35 PM

PS Sorry everyone, I feel like I've begun to dominate this thread.

Bee in bonnet...

Subject: RE: BS: UK Boy Tortured/Murdered
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 07 Mar 12 - 02:54 PM

What appears to be the case here, is the "bolting on" (to borrow a phrase used previously) of specific Pentecostal religious beliefs about 'spirit possession' onto pre-existent and popularly held African folk beliefs about witchcraft.
.,,.
Re "bolting on" ~~ would not the correct term be'syncresis'?

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: UK Boy Tortured/Murdered
From: GUEST,CS
Date: 07 Mar 12 - 03:11 PM

Quite so M - this phenomena represents a modern syncretic set of beliefs involving both traditional African folk beliefs about witchcraft and Christian notions about spirit possession imported by missionaries. I used the "bolted on" phrase for the superficial sake of contiguity as it had already been used (albeit in reverse terms) previously in this thread.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Boy Tortured/Murdered
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 07 Mar 12 - 03:12 PM

"pre-existent and popularly held African folk beliefs"
Chicken and egg really CS - exorcism has been and continues to be a part of christianity, going back at least to the 2nd century under that name - who is to say which is the most toxic of the "toxic mix"?
The indication is that, far from being a thing of the past, it seems to be enjoying a bit of a renaissance at present.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-504969/Popes-exorcist-squads-wage-war-Satan.html
Not suggesting for one minute that 'is 'oliness's lads would take it as far as this tragic incident - but lest we forget.... the same church that was collecting for "little black babies" on the street corners, was also shipping out to Africa their over-enthusiastic paedophiles to get them "out of harm's way".
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: UK Boy Tortured/Murdered
From: GUEST,CS
Date: 07 Mar 12 - 03:18 PM

Tsk Jim, quoting the DM! Surely you know to do better than that, even in support of your stance on this matter ;)

Either way, I'm not willing to engage in debate about the wrongs of the Christian church elsewhere, however heinous I might acknowledge them to be in other discussions, as personally speaking, I do not think it fruitful to this one.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Boy Tortured/Murdered
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 07 Mar 12 - 03:26 PM

"Tsk Jim, quoting the DM!"
It's ok - got my rubber gloves on!
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: UK Boy Tortured/Murdered
From: GUEST,CS
Date: 07 Mar 12 - 03:30 PM

Haha!

Subject: RE: BS: UK Boy Tortured/Murdered
From: GUEST
Date: 08 Mar 12 - 12:15 AM

On a point of order, and to help reduce the temperature of my blood from something close to 100-deg C., I keep seeing 'this phenomena' or 'a phenomena' quoted in this thread. 'Phenomena' is the plural of 'phenomenon', so it is either 'this (or a) phenomenon' (singular) or 'these phenomena' (plural).

My blood also boils at the same mis-use of the word 'media' as a singular, instead of 'medium'.

No apologies for the pedantry (but absolutely no offence intended, CS, it's just one of those itches I desperately needed to scratch!). :-)

Subject: RE: BS: UK Boy Tortured/Murdered
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 08 Mar 12 - 12:18 AM

Mea Culpa! The above post was me on a different browser - didn't realise I needed to log-in again.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Boy Tortured/Murdered
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 08 Mar 12 - 02:04 AM

While I normally abhor neologisms, I wonder if "the media" has not become a collective noun.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Boy Tortured/Murdered
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 08 Mar 12 - 02:30 AM

I agree it has Richard, but that's not what I was moaning about. 'The Media' as a collective term is all fine and dandy, but to refer to one element of The Media as, for example, "The media of TV", rather than "The medium of TV", is just wrong, plain and simple.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Boy Tortured/Murdered
From: GUEST,CS
Date: 08 Mar 12 - 03:48 AM

Backwoodman, "this phenomenon" it is - I'll endevour to restrain myself from further messy use of language! But I can't promise to do so, never was very good at editing. Or decent sentence structure for that matter!

Bluesman, I already covered that inaccuracy - Wicca is an entirely modern syncretic (good word for this thread M) religion whose founders fabricated it's 'history'. While there have been forms of folk magic practiced both here and all over the world throughout history, in the UK at least, such practicioners would NOT have considered themselves to be 'witches', or indeed Wiccans, which has more to do with Masonry than anything identifiable as witchcraft.

In fact traditional folk magic would have been fully *openly* practiced by what were known as "Cunning Men" (and Women). Far from being persecuted during the collective madness of Europes witchcraze, these individuals (while if a little awe inspiring) safely practiced their trade, while others innocent of any magical activity (any activity actually provable via means other than torture at least), were being branded as 'witches' by their paranoid neighbours.

thread.cfm?threadid=143622&messages=134#3316040

Subject: RE: BS: UK Boy Tortured/Murdered
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 08 Mar 12 - 04:01 AM

Thanks CS - at least now you won't have the spectre of my early death from apoplexy on your conscience! :-) :-)

BTW, I'm pedantic about other stuff too! All part of being a Grumpy Old Man! :-)

Subject: RE: BS: UK Boy Tortured/Murdered
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 08 Mar 12 - 04:06 AM

I don't immediately see any connection between Wicca and freemasonry, nor yet any basis for an assertion that witchcraft exists in England or is increasing.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Boy Tortured/Murdered
From: GUEST,CS
Date: 08 Mar 12 - 04:10 AM

Incidentally further to Cunning Folk, somewhat akin to what these crooked faith leaders are up to, they too would have "expelled" evil spirits, or provided paranoid villagers with prophylactics against the effects of imagined malefic witchcraft by their neighbours.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Boy Tortured/Murdered
From: GUEST
Date: 08 Mar 12 - 04:17 AM

Richard, yes it's only *accusations* of witchcraft, and persecution based on those accusations, which is on the rise.

For Masonry and Wicca see here:

http://pagantheologies.pbworks.com/w/page/13622064/Freemasonry#GeraldGardnerandWicca

http://pagantheologies.pbworks.com/w/page/13622307/The%20similarities%20between%20Wicca%20and%20Freemasonry

Subject: RE: BS: UK Boy Tortured/Murdered
From: Musket
Date: 08 Mar 12 - 05:12 AM

When you say "pay a high spiritual price" I assume you mean mental health issues? Is a lay person such as a pastor or any other form of priest best equipped to deal with this?

We have professionals in the field of psychiatry best equipped to deal with the results of people getting screwed up. Two wrongs don't make a right, however well meaning.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Boy Tortured/Murdered
From: GUEST,CS
Date: 08 Mar 12 - 06:04 AM

It's probably not even worth countering such a blatant bit of provocation, but anyone still labouring under the illusion that Wicca and malefic 'witchcraft' are in any way related should learn a little of the key basics of Wiccan ethics - which very crudely summed up, can be rendered as "freely enjoy your life however you wish, just endevour not to be a nasty bastard while doing so":

http://www.religionfacts.com/neopaganism/ethics.htm

In fact as organised religions go, it's got to be one of the most ethically healthy, world friendly and indeed human friendly.