BS: Open Carry: Guns in Public

Subject: BS: Open Carry: Guns in Public
From: Joe Offer
Date: 02 Jun 10 - 03:36 PM

Sometime last year, there was a demonstration outside an Arizona convention center where Barack Obama was speaking. The demonstrators, about a dozen people, were carrying guns. Since the guns were unloaded, the demonstration was legal - at least, it was legal in Arizona.

But the thought of it scared me to death, to think that such a display of deadly force was legal.

Yesterday, the California State Assembly passed a bill that would make such demonstrations illegal. It barely passed the Assembly, and there's doubt that it will pass the Senate. Governor Schwarzenegger hasn't taken a position on the bill, so there's no guarantee he'll sign it if the
Senate passes it.

The bill, AB 1934, makes "carrying an exposed handgun in a public place or on a public street in a city or in prohibited areas of unincorporated county territory a misdemeanor, punishable by a $1,000 fine and six months in jail. The bill contains exceptions, including display of a firearm by a peace officer, a firearms dealer, a target-shooter at a range, a gun-show participant, and by a licensed hunter while engaged in that sport." (Sacramento Bee, 2 June 2010).

Sam Paredes, director of the Gun Owners of California, says that the bill "urinates on the Second Amendment." It seems that the Supreme Court has made it clear that (at least for the time being), the Second Amendment protects the rights of individuals to bear arms, so let's not argue that point. Given the climate in the Supreme Court right now, I think that any legislation has to honor that right. But what of my rights as a citizen who's scared to death of guns? If I saw a dozen people carrying guns outside an arena, I'd be scared to go anywhere near that place. Doesn't their bearing of arms interfere with my right to enter a public place without fear? How can I be sure that those people don't have bullets in their guns?

What do you think of all this? How can the rights of gun owners be respected, without causing undue fear for the rest of us?

I've had a gun pointed at me only once in my life. I dealt with it, because it was my job to deal with it; but it was not a wonderful feeling.

-Joe-

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Since this thread is likely to be controversial, no guest posts will be permitted.

Subject: RE: BS: Open Carry: Guns in Public
From: gnu
Date: 02 Jun 10 - 03:57 PM

But, can a concealed gun be carried? Far more dangerous.

Subject: RE: BS: Open Carry: Guns in Public
From: Joe Offer
Date: 02 Jun 10 - 04:00 PM

Concealed weapons are a problem, gnu, but most states have fairly strict controls on concealed firearms - and the Supreme Court has upheld those controls.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: Open Carry: Guns in Public
From: katlaughing
Date: 02 Jun 10 - 04:03 PM

It was a common occurrence when speakers from the NorthWest Coalition for Human rights or something or other, I can't remember the name, went to places like Montana to speak of human rights. And there was no guarantee they were not loaded, in fact the inference was the opposite. It was an intimidation tactic. That was in the mid to late 90s.

My concern would be those who want to carry openly will just get permits to carry concealed, or do so regardless. I don't know what the answer is, Joe, but I wouldn't be happy about it, either. Makes ya wonder just why they feel the need to have a gun with them. My dad taught us to never, ever point a gun or even take one out unless we meant to use it to kill or target practice. Of course, we weren't supposed to use it to kill except in self-defence or to put an animal down if hit by a car or something. I can tell you he would NOT approve of any yahoos taking them near the President.

Subject: RE: BS: Open Carry: Guns in Public
From: Rapparee
Date: 02 Jun 10 - 04:21 PM

Joe, as a gun owner and the possessor of a concealed carry permit, I can tell you that I would never carry a firearm openly except on a range (and then only between the firing line and the reload table or to put it away) or hunting, and that would be away from populated areas.

I don't understand the apparent need to show that I'm armed. For one thing, the police (at least here) would ask me all sorts of questions.

Robyn, I've been following that story and need to know more before I can comment.

Subject: RE: BS: Open Carry: Guns in Public
From: olddude
Date: 02 Jun 10 - 04:26 PM

Common Law across many states Joe ... here in NY state people who are licensed to carry a loaded concealed handgun like myself ... that gun better be concealed for the reasons you spoke about or you may lose your license... that is our law. In PA and other states no not the case ... it comes down to the rights and safety of others also ... It is exactly those types of people who get their "gun rights restricted or taken away" States like Wisconsin you cannot carry a concealed weapon as a citizen ... no license exists ... I suspect the 2nd will eventually be taken away my guess and if it does, it will be people like this that can blame themselves ...

Subject: RE: BS: Open Carry: Guns in Public
From: John P
Date: 02 Jun 10 - 04:34 PM

Sometime in the last week, a guy in a Lowe's hardware store had a gun hidden in the waistband of his pants. It went off accidentally and removed his testicles. I'm somewhat ashamed to say I applauded, in a Darwin's Law sort of way.

I was also horrified to think that there may be armed people all around me when I'm shopping for nuts and bolts. I know it's legal, but I'm with Joe -- how can anyone assure me that a gun won't go off accidentally and remove MY testicles? And, given the irrational rage I often see acted out by people, how can I be assured that someone isn't going to lose their temper and start firing?

The 2nd Amendment says we can't take away our right to bear arms. I must have missed the part where it says we can't make any rules about it. And then there's that pesky well ordered militia phrase . . .

Subject: RE: BS: Open Carry: Guns in Public
From: Rapparee
Date: 02 Jun 10 - 04:40 PM

Well, it seems to me that if you blow your jewels off you're not a very well-ordered person, much less in the militia. I hope the man was arrested as well -- discharging a firearm in a populated area or reckless shooting or at the very least disturbing the peace. He obviously didn't know squat about how to carry safely.

I have to admit that seeing someone openly toting a gun in public bothers me -- I think that they must be inadequate in other ways and are compensating.

Subject: RE: BS: Open Carry: Guns in Public
From: Don Firth
Date: 02 Jun 10 - 04:49 PM

An automatic pistol (various Colt autos, Berettas, Walthers, Brownings, etc.) can be loaded in a matter of a couple of seconds. Stow the pistol in the holster (say, on the right side) unloaded, with a fully loaded magazine in a left-hand pocket. Draw the gun while removing the magazine from the pocket with the other hand. Slip the magazine into the grip and when it latches in place (less than a second), draw the slide back all the way, which automatically cocks the weapon, and release it. The mainspring snaps the slide forward again, stripping the top round off the magazine and sliding it into the chamber.

All of two seconds and she's ready to fire.

So—even if the gun is being packed unloaded, therefore legally, it's still a damned dangerous thing to allow.

The loosest possible interpretation of the Second Amendment, and an armed mob like that, whether carrying concealed or openly, with permits or not, hardly constitutes a "well-regulated militia."

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Open Carry: Guns in Public
From: Amos
Date: 02 Jun 10 - 04:52 PM

NOt to mention assault with a lethal weapon and attempted suicide!


A

Subject: RE: BS: Open Carry: Guns in Public
From: Wesley S
Date: 02 Jun 10 - 04:54 PM

If someone is seen carring a gun in public I assume it's OK for a law officer to ask to prove that they have a permit to carry it. Or is that radical profiling?

Subject: RE: BS: Open Carry: Guns in Public
From: gnu
Date: 02 Jun 10 - 05:03 PM

My way of thinking is this... regulate the people reasonably and strictly and the guns won't be a problem. Now, of course there will be some people who slip through the cracks... crackpots. But that is another issue.

The US laws (some) seem looney tunes to me. You don't need a handgun at Walmart. Even though every time I go to any such shop there is someone who needs the whole fucking aisle for their cart and their fat ass and are in their own little world and don't give a shit about...

On the other hand, here, Canada, you cannot defend your home and family with a gun you legally own from people who break in with any sort of weapon including illegal guns, which is just at looney tunes, in my opinion.

Subject: RE: BS: Open Carry: Guns in Public
From: Rapparee
Date: 02 Jun 10 - 05:19 PM

"...It might be just the worst thing he could do
But he squeezes off a few
Then makes his call to town."

          --Stan Rogers, "Night Guard"

Subject: RE: BS: Open Carry: Guns in Public
From: artbrooks
Date: 02 Jun 10 - 05:37 PM

Here in New Mexico, concealed carry is strictly regulated, requiring a background check, a license and both safety and "how to shoot" training. On the other hand, UNconcealed carry is completely unregulated, except that stores, etc. can post the premises as "no guns allowed". That includes handguns in bars, by the way. It scares the crap out of me. People I know who carry, such as my brother, say that they are protecting me from such folks as convenience store robbers...personally, I'd rather take a chance with the bandit than get in the middle of a crossfire of a couple of would-be Wyatt Earps. It isn't likely to change, however.

Subject: RE: BS: Open Carry: Guns in Public
From: gnu
Date: 02 Jun 10 - 05:45 PM

Handguns in bars.... you know.

Subject: RE: BS: Open Carry: Guns in Public
From: Rapparee
Date: 02 Jun 10 - 05:49 PM

Well, they told me not to mix alcohol and gunpowder, ever. Put the guns away, unloaded and safe, after hunting or target shooting and THEN AND ONLY THEN have an alcoholic drink. It was guns and alcohol that fueled most of the Old West shooting sprees, from the shootout by Fly's Photographic Shop to the waddy raising hell by shooting out the streetlights.

Subject: RE: BS: Open Carry: Guns in Public
From: Rapparee
Date: 02 Jun 10 - 05:50 PM

By the way, almost all the towns in The Olde Weste prohibited the carrying of firearms in town, openly or otherwise.

Subject: RE: BS: Open Carry: Guns in Public
From: Bill D
Date: 02 Jun 10 - 06:38 PM

Rapaire makes sense, and I'd not worry much if he and those like him were the only ones with weapons.......unfortunately, those states which have a more 'relaxed' idea about the freedom to own & carry & conceal do not seem to have any regulations about 'making sense' when they issue a permit.

Subject: RE: BS: Open Carry: Guns in Public
From: gnu
Date: 02 Jun 10 - 06:51 PM

Exactly Bill... even for machine pistols! What sense is possible with that at all?

A three day waiting period doesn't matter a tad to a "gangstah".

Subject: RE: BS: Open Carry: Guns in Public
From: Joe Offer
Date: 02 Jun 10 - 07:24 PM

I think the extremists make it very difficult for the pro-gun lobby, because it seems they scare everyone into supporting the extremist position. I think the same thing has happened in both political parties, but especially the Republicans. The extremists have beaten the reasonable people into corners. It's hard for moderates to get hold of things because they see both sides of the issue and seek balance. Explaining a reasonable balance can rarely be done in a sound bite, so the sloganeers on the extremes win out.

Can't say I've ever heard of de-testiclification that John P describes above, but it sounds possible. I used to investigate applicants for the Border Patrol, and I had two applicants who had trouble sitting for a good, long time. They stowed a pistol in their belt, the gun discharged, and they lost a cheek. I wonder if they were hired...

It seems clear to me that armed demonstrators intend to intimidate. There oughta be a law against that.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: Open Carry: Guns in Public
From: Rapparee
Date: 02 Jun 10 - 07:27 PM

Were it up to me, and of course it isn't, the public (bless their unwashed little faces) would be able to purchase only single action, gate-load, handguns (such as this). You could load only one shell at a time, to a maximum of six (five if you're smart), and would have to recock the hammer after each shot. That was good enough for folks like Bill Hickox and Bill Tilghman and it should be enough for anyone. No semi-automatic pistols, rifles or shotguns outside of the military and the cops. You should be a good enough shot that you don't need to do "spray & pray."

Others will disagree, and yes, I own some semi-auto handguns and a rifle. I've just reached the point where I think that the old maxim of "Speed's fine, but accuracy's final" be revised to "Speed's fine, and throwing lots of lead around is fine too, but accuracy is STILL final."

Better yet, try not to go where you might need a gun....

Subject: RE: BS: Open Carry: Guns in Public
From: Janie
Date: 02 Jun 10 - 07:32 PM

What Amos would say is "Who to?"




(Blimey, I blew that one.)

Subject: RE: BS: Open Carry: Guns in Public
From: olddude
Date: 02 Jun 10 - 08:07 PM

Crap I been trained and trained others in about every friggin weapon on the planet .. and the nutballs that did what Joe said scare the crap outta me and I don't scare easy ... Heck if I could be assured none of them ever touch a weapon again I give up me 2nd adm right.

Subject: RE: BS: Open Carry: Guns in Public
From: Bobert
Date: 02 Jun 10 - 08:47 PM

Well, I live in the gun-nut capital of the world: Virginia... This is where all the criminals come to get their heat and there's a reason fir it... Since tobacco use is down Virginia has become the gun supplier of every criminal and wacko out there and guess what??? Thay are so proud of it that they were the 1st state to pass laws were folks could strap on their heat and go wherever they wanted... Resturants, bars, movie theaters, boxing matches, soccer games, church... Yep, says right there in the Constitution that carryin' heat ain't 'sposed to be abridged...

(No, it doesn't, Boberdz...)

Okay, maybe it don't... Details... Says that we have a right to form a militia and that it has a right to pack heat... That is what it says...

(But that's not what the NRA says it says, Bobz...)

Screw the NRA... They are illiterate...

But seriously... Yeah, in Virginbia the owner of a resturant (or manager) has the right to go up to the 10 wimps who couldn't win a fist fight with their sisters who have just strode in John Wayne style with their holsters and pistols like the Long Branch Saloon and ask them to leave... Yeah, right??? Like that ain't gonna happen... So everyone in the rsturant has to sit there and listen to these wash-rag cowboys brag about just how tough they are...

They ain't tough... They are the kids we used to beat up in school... They are washrag wimps... But, hey, they pay their NRA dues on time...

Makes me sick...

And I ain't the only ones... I've seen people, especially young parents with their kids, just get up and leave...

I mean, what ever happened to just doing the honorable thing... You know, like stand on an overpass and expose themselves?? I mean, it the same kinda personality "disorder"...

Screw 'um... They are jerks...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Open Carry: Guns in Public
From: gnu
Date: 02 Jun 10 - 09:03 PM

Jerks with guns... sad.

Subject: RE: BS: Open Carry: Guns in Public
From: Bobert
Date: 02 Jun 10 - 09:21 PM

Downright scarey, gn-zer...

I mean, I was a social worker for about 15 years and most of my clients were also known to the fine folks at the Department of Mental Health so I know a little about, ahhhhh, people with messed up thinkerators and...

...the kinda folks who have to strap on holsters to go out a friggin' family resturant are psychos... Yep, these are some mentally deranged people... I mean, they are nuts!!!

No wonder people leave when these borish assholes arrive...

Friggin' loonies... with guns???

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Open Carry: Guns in Public
From: Janie
Date: 02 Jun 10 - 09:27 PM

Oops. Ignore my post above. Wrong thread. (And I was certain it disappeared into cyberspace when it did not appear where I meant for it to. *blush*)

No comment otherwise. Just reading and pondering.

Subject: RE: BS: Open Carry: Guns in Public
From: ichMael
Date: 02 Jun 10 - 09:28 PM

Almost all mass shootings occur in "gun free" zones. The shooters know they won't receive return fire, so that's where they go to murder. Guns should be allowed virtually everywhere. If someone goes on a rampage around here, he'll have a clip emptied into him in no time. And if the first clip doesn't do the trick, someone else will empty another one into him. And I couldn't feel safer, knowing that.

First thing Schwarzenegger did as governor was ban .50 calibers (guns with the range to reach his sorry ass). He's a nazi, in favor of disarmed slaves, so if he's saying he might not sign the thing, it's just more of his bad acting.

http://www2.moment.net/~michael/ArmYourselves.htm

Subject: RE: BS: Open Carry: Guns in Public
From: Bill D
Date: 02 Jun 10 - 09:31 PM

"Give a small boy a hammer, and everything he sees looks like a nail"

Give a loonie with an attitude and an ego a gun, and small arguments look like the OK corral.

Subject: RE: BS: Open Carry: Guns in Public
From: Riginslinger
Date: 02 Jun 10 - 09:52 PM

"The extremists have beaten the reasonable people into corners."

               And that's the sad part. I find myself wanting to support the pro-gun folks, but going to a public place and having a lot of people walking around with guns would make me very nervous.

Subject: RE: BS: Open Carry: Guns in Public
From: Bobert
Date: 02 Jun 10 - 09:59 PM

My exact sentiments, BillD...

And, for tyhe record, they ***are*** loonies... That ain't like Rap... They are sissies who think that gun makes them John Wayne... Very bad combination... I mean, how many friggin' people were gunned down at Dennys last year??? Well, I'll tell ya how many... None, that's how many...

But Mr. Bigshot Gunnut has to strap on his 9mm to go to Dennys to get breakfast... But, no, that ain't the end of the story... He ahs to cvall about a dozen of his sissie buddies to strap on their heat and make it a 9mm-in@Dennys...

Like I said... Screw these sissie cowards... They make me sick...

But the NRA loves 'um...

No wonder Charlton Heston lost his mind... I think I'd loose mine to if I had to come up with justification for these punk's right to turn Dennys into a friggin' armed camp!!!

Beam me up, Scottie...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Open Carry: Guns in Public
From: Janie
Date: 02 Jun 10 - 10:16 PM

Rig, a quick skim didn't reveal to me who you were quoting, but it is an insightful comment. Reasonable consensus is not possible as long as the rhetoric is passionate - be it passionately "anti" or passionate "pro." Emotional thinking and talk of guns do not mix.

Subject: RE: BS: Open Carry: Guns in Public
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 02 Jun 10 - 10:47 PM

Gun laws in the United States-
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_in_the_United_States_(by_state)
Note- Not sure of accuracy of the table shown here.

States where I spent much time- just curious about their handgun laws.
New Mexico- a "shall issue" state for concealed carry, and permits the open carry of loaded firearms. Concealed permit age 21, training course, test every two years.
Texas- No permit required, no registration, no license required. Concealed carry permit required. Open carry prohibited except on one's own property. Open carry of a long gun not specifically prohibited.
Colorado- No permits etc. required, concealed carry permitted with permit, open carry legal except in Denver where signs are posted.
Montana- Open carry OK, concealed carry with permit OK but not permitted where liquor is served, in banks or government buildings.
Hawai'i- pretty restrictive. Concealed permits rarely issued.
Louisiana- Concealed carry with permit, proficiency test, etc. No open carry.
Washington- Open carry OK, concealed with permit, over age 21.

Subject: RE: BS: Open Carry: Guns in Public
From: Rapparee
Date: 03 Jun 10 - 12:05 AM

9mm. Shhheeeeeeeeet fire, Bobert. That puny little round ain't good for much more than squirrel shooting. IL State Police a while pack shot 28 out of 30 rounds of 9mm into a PCP-ed up biker and he kept comin'. Had to put him down the old fashioned way, with a 12 gauge. Even your +P+ rounds don't have the stopping power of a .357 magnum.

Of course, guns with REAL stopping power also have more recoil, so those that use them tend to be folks who really KNOW firearms.

However, in the long run and dealing with reasonably sane, undrugged, folks a .22 is as good as a 12 gauge: nobody in their right mind wants to the get shot. Besides, shooting someone can simply ruin your day.

Keep yer guns at home boy, don't bring yer guns ta town boy....

Subject: RE: BS: Open Carry: Guns in Public
From: Stringsinger
Date: 03 Jun 10 - 09:47 AM

The purpose of carrying weapons is to potentially use them. It is also a nazi-like bullying tactic to scare people who don't agree with them. The thugs who are carrying weapons to political rallies are not advancing any political aims by doing this but are turning off people who would have listened at least to what they had to say.

The right to bear arms publicly is not in the Constitution. It's a misreading of the Second Amendment and someone's going to get shot.

Subject: RE: BS: Open Carry: Guns in Public
From: Bobert
Date: 03 Jun 10 - 10:13 AM

The entire idea of the population havingh unfettered access to guns is a misreading of the Constitution, Strings... I find it very interesting that the 2nd ammendment is one sentence but the NRA gun-nuts never mention that... They cherry pick the ammendment... I've never heard one make reference to right to maintain a "militia"...

Yeah, Rap... A .22 is just fine... I've got a little backpacker "Survival" .22/.410 with open sights and that little rifle will take out a deer at 100 yards with no problem...

Now if folks wanted to carry .22s around, hey, I could live with that... It's just these John Wayne want-a-bes we seem to grow alot of here in Virginia that make me sick...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Open Carry: Guns in Public
From: Rapparee
Date: 03 Jun 10 - 11:06 AM

Cops should ask questions of those who carry openly and even more of those who are discovered carrying concealed. Out here the cops periodically pick up folks for things like "felon in possession of a firearm" or "carrying concealed without a permit". These are felonies and the courts take a pretty dim view of them. So do the citizens, many of whom out here are gun owners.

Subject: RE: BS: Open Carry: Guns in Public
From: Green Man
Date: 03 Jun 10 - 11:50 AM

I wish we could do this in England. It might deter the wassocks who get away with all kinds of mayhem.

Subject: RE: BS: Open Carry: Guns in Public
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 03 Jun 10 - 12:11 PM

I think it may have been Katlaughing who, early in this thread, wondered WHY these people even want to carry, concealed or unconcealed.

My take on it is that they get a romantic sort of rush out of it, as if they were proclaiming to the world, "Look at me! I'm manly, I'm virile, I'm DAINN-gerous!"

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: BS: Open Carry: Guns in Public
From: olddude
Date: 03 Jun 10 - 12:36 PM

You cannot own a handgun in NY State without a license to own and the gun being registered. Even with that you cannot open carry it, empty or otherwise to the best of my knowledge unless you have a conceal carry permit like me and then it has to be concealed so you don't scare people. To get that license is a very complex process of screening ... Sadly even with that it hasn't stopped Buffalo from being a gang war zone at time. Every night someone is killed it seems ... Until they start picking people up and locking them up for gun violations here, it won't get better.

If they can get all of them off the street, I will gladly give up the 2nd adm for sure.

Subject: RE: BS: Open Carry: Guns in Public
From: Rapparee
Date: 03 Jun 10 - 01:23 PM

If we don't work at the root causes of violence, which includes gun violence, we will continue to have these things. Look at the recent incidents in China where at least twice men killed schoolchildren with an ax. Could we have too many people packed too closely together? What role does the media play? How can we stop glorifying violence as the means to an end? Or, looking back at history, is it so deeply part of the human psyche that we should find a way to redirect it (and I don't mean into sports like American football or rugby)?

Consider that the Olympic sports of javelin, shot put, discus, archery, old and new pentathlon, fencing, biathlon, all of the shooting events, riding, Marathon, boxing, judo, tae kwan do and Lord knows how many others their start in violence. Others, such as swimming, hurdles, pole vault, and jumping could go either way. If we add such other sports as tossing the camber and wrestling you can see how deeply related sports are to war and violence.

Perhaps it's the competition, the need to overcome another team, another village, another person that we should concentrate on. Or, as has been noted by scholars, this might be the thing that has allowed the human race to survive.

But I still don't like people openly carrying guns in the supermarket. Makes me nervous.

Subject: RE: BS: Open Carry: Guns in Public
From: kendall
Date: 03 Jun 10 - 01:25 PM

Maine has 1.3 million people. That includes children. There are 10,000 concealed permits here, yet it has one of the lowest crime rates in the country. It is legal to carry openly even in the towns and cities, yet it is no big problem because most people simply don't do it.

Subject: RE: BS: Open Carry: Guns in Public
From: Rapparee
Date: 03 Jun 10 - 03:37 PM

That's about the same for Idaho, Kendall.

Subject: RE: BS: Open Carry: Guns in Public
From: Bobert
Date: 03 Jun 10 - 04:41 PM

The difference bewteen Maine and Virginia, Capt'n, is in the DNA... Ya'll got intellegent people and we got the rednecks...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Open Carry: Guns in Public
From: gnu
Date: 03 Jun 10 - 04:52 PM

Maine don't got no rednecks? Shurrrre. None up here in New Brunswick needer. Them there donut peel marks up one the 126 is just fellahs testin their tires on accounta they is safety concious.

Subject: RE: BS: Open Carry: Guns in Public
From: Big Mick
Date: 03 Jun 10 - 05:02 PM

Interesting that all the posts about what doesn't make sense are not supported by the facts. Like the man says, you are entitled to your opinion, but you ain't entitled to your own facts. I can see how armed people might make you all uncomfortable, but there is an inverse relationship in the rate of violent crime and the ability to carry a legally registered weapon. And it does not support all these reasons you quote.

Mick

Subject: RE: BS: Open Carry: Guns in Public
From: Rapparee
Date: 03 Jun 10 - 05:15 PM

Well, Mick, I look at it this way. If I pack heat in public, having it right out in the open, the bad guys aren't going to bother me. If I carry it concealed, they get a surprise. Since I do have a CCW permit, and folks around here know I do, the baddies can't figure out if I am or if I'm not. Same thing with other guys around here. Now, my preference is to surprise them -- makes them think twice about doing it again. I don't mind if folks go armed; I just feel a little uncomfortable seeing a gun right out in the open amidst the lima beans and lettuce. And I agree with you about the facts.

Of course, the baddies have the initiative anyway -- you can't draw down on 'em until they make the first move and if you're wearing a gun openly in front of God and everybody you know who's gonna get offed first.

Subject: RE: BS: Open Carry: Guns in Public
From: gnu
Date: 03 Jun 10 - 05:28 PM

Indeed, Rap... open carry simply does not make any sense.

Rather than any "carry", I prefer a better educational system, a better health care system, a better taxation and wealth distribution system, a better police system, a better political system... and so on, but that ain't gonna happen anytime soon, so crime will. As said above, until the roots of crime are addressed, people will carry, legally or not. So sad.

Subject: RE: BS: Open Carry: Guns in Public
From: kendall
Date: 03 Jun 10 - 07:36 PM

Bottom line is: No one else is responsible for my safety but me.

Subject: RE: BS: Open Carry: Guns in Public
From: Bobert
Date: 03 Jun 10 - 08:16 PM

Well, I think it would be very interesting to have an independent organization do the research on whether or not guns make us safer... I mean, both sides seem to have their "white paper" ready to roll out... One side says that guns save lives... The other say they cost lives... Somewhere there is the truth...

Persoanlly??? I don't believe anything the NRA says... I was a member for years until they became an instgrument of the right wing and started sending me stuff supporting right winged issues... Took years for that stuff to quit ending up in my mail box...

But nevermind that... Time for a little sanity and less shoot-from-the-hip (pun intended) studies that prove absolutely nothing excdept that someone has a dog in the race...

Personally, Part2??? As I have stated, or maybe I haven't, I don't wnat to go to a resturant, where there has never been a shooting, and have a half a dozen cowboy-wantabees come in with holsters and guns... Cops??? Yeah... Wimps and rednecks??? No, thanks... That seems an infringement on my right to have a peaceful meal in a public resturant...

BTW, there are alot of these guys her in Virginia who do this just because they can... It's about the same as the kids who have 10 million watt stereos in their cars that you can hear a mile away... One is sound pollution... Guns are sight pollution... Living and let living is just that... If I kndew that I was making someone uncomfortable I wouldn't do what ever it was I was doing... These creeps know they are making people uncomfortable and they eat it up... F'n a-holes!!! Period... No one is safer... Just uncomfortable... Like I said, f'n a-holes... Borish, insensitive f'n a-holes...

B~