BS: The smoking ban & pubs

Subject: RE: BS: The smoking ban & pubs
From: GUEST,Ol' Smokey
Date: 26 Mar 08 - 09:46 PM

Nothing I've said has been specifically designed to make you come to any conclusion Mick, that's the point. You are, however, as entitled to your opinion as anyone else. Pardon me if I ignore it.

Subject: RE: BS: The smoking ban & pubs
From: Big Mick
Date: 26 Mar 08 - 09:50 PM

So then your injecting of the elderly and the disabled into the thread wasn't put there to elicit sympathy for your position?

I think we will just agree to disagree. But as long as you put that stuff out there Smokey, it will get a reply. There is not a justification for smokers inflicting their smoke on non smokers. You have every right to smoke your brains out, as long as you don't make me be exposed to it in a public place.

Subject: RE: BS: The smoking ban & pubs
From: GUEST,Ol' Smokey
Date: 26 Mar 08 - 10:07 PM

I thought they deserved a mention and some consideration, as their existence seemed to be ignored. The ban has been more of an inconvenience to them than most, those who frequent pubs at least. Sympathy for my 'position' is unnecessary. I do not inflict my smoke where it is not wanted, and do not require any justification for my behaviour, as it harms no-one. By that I do not mean that passive smoking is harmless, lest I should be misinterpreted yet again.

Subject: RE: BS: The smoking ban & pubs
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 27 Mar 08 - 04:03 AM

"I'm contemplating flailing myself with birch twigs and drinking battery acid"
No need Smokey - an indication that you 'might' have been a tad thoughtless in the past would suffice.
"Fascists" "bigots" - won't hold my breath for an answer to my questions, or an apology - oh, I forgot - I'm not able to nowadays.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: The smoking ban & pubs
From: TheSnail
Date: 27 Mar 08 - 05:50 AM

I expect the disabled and elderly non-smokers are perfectly capable of removing themselves.

Subject: RE: BS: The smoking ban & pubs
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 27 Mar 08 - 08:08 AM

"There are 194 posts on this thread. At least 38 of them are from GUEST,Ol' Smokey."

Not bad for somebody who claims not to care whether smoking's allowed in pubs or not.

"Leadfingers pointed out to me last night that the hall that I have been chair of for the last 12 years! Where we hold follkforms is no smoking!
As I told him last night I have not smoked in there during the 18 years of running the concert! Nor did I ever smoke during any form of visit (of which there where 1000s, or any committeee meetings).
However just to keep it clear, tonight I resigned, non smoker required to take my place!"

Words like 'cut', 'nose', 'spite' and 'face' spring to mind. Not to mention 'childish', 'hysterical' and 'over-reaction'.

Subject: RE: BS: The smoking ban & pubs
From: GUEST,Ol' Smokey
Date: 27 Mar 08 - 04:39 PM

Words like 'pot' kettle' and 'black' spring to mind. I've already explained twice why I'm still here, why are you? Perhaps if you didn't take yourselves so seriously, you wouldn't be such ripe targets for having the piss taken..

Subject: RE: BS: The smoking ban & pubs
From: TheSnail
Date: 27 Mar 08 - 05:30 PM

There are now 207 posts on this thread. 11 from Backwoodsman and at least 44 from Ol' Smokey.

Subject: RE: BS: The smoking ban & pubs
From: GUEST,Ol' Smokey
Date: 27 Mar 08 - 10:35 PM

I expect he's too drunk to type :-)

Subject: RE: BS: The smoking ban & pubs
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 28 Mar 08 - 05:58 AM

"I expect he's too drunk to type :-)"

Can't be me you're talking about. For health reasons, I'm teetotal (really). :-)

Subject: RE: BS: The smoking ban & pubs
From: Thompson
Date: 28 Mar 08 - 06:06 AM

What an ill-tempered thread this is!

Yes, Dublin, Cork and Limerick have horrifying drug abuse levels. I'm not sure quite how this relates to the smoking ban, though.

Subject: RE: BS: The smoking ban & pubs
From: GUEST,Ol' Smokey
Date: 28 Mar 08 - 01:43 PM

My apologies BWM, I was primarily being facetious at the repeated production of statistics. None of this is actually personal, but it amuses me how certain people have, by quoting me out of context, misunderstanding and/or misinterpreting my words, invented a character of their own design that is supposed to be me, and then proceeded to throw metaphorical bricks at it. All without knowing anything about me whatsoever. By the way, it's a proven fact that 37.21% of statistics are just made up out of thin air.

Subject: RE: BS: The smoking ban & pubs
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 28 Mar 08 - 02:06 PM

LOL!

I think you've caused your own notoriety O'S, by both posting as a 'Guest' (a description I dislike as guests are, in most social scenarios, usually present by invitation, rather than simply imposing themselves on the members, as 'Guests' are able to do on this forum) and indulging in deliberate mischief and (dare I say it without attracting accusations of loutishness and rusticism) good old-fashioned Shit-Stirring, in your posts - I know, I've stupidly done some myself in past threads.

By the things you've posted, you've quite deliberately invited 'certain people' (that's to say 'those you have yourself targetted') to "quote you out of context, misunderstand and/or misinterpret you words, invent a character of their own design that is supposed to be you, and then proceed to throw metaphorical bricks at it. All without knowing anything about you whatsoever". You know that very well, it's been your aim all along to piss people off, so why complain when you succeed and they retaliate?

It's good fun metaphorically opening a door, lobbing in a hand-grenade and closing the door again. Unfortunately, when you then post something worth reading, with good sense or genuine humour in it, those you have stirred up are less likely to give you credit for it (assuming they even bother to read it). And I suspect that's where you're at now - an intelligent guy (or gal) who, through his or her own design, has little or no credibility.

Very sad. I'm sure you have a lot to say that's very worthwhile, and a great deal to contribute to healthy debate. Shame some of us won't be taking a blind breath of notice of anything else you have to say.

Subject: RE: BS: The smoking ban & pubs
From: GUEST,Ol' Smokey
Date: 28 Mar 08 - 02:36 PM

You're quite right BWM, but let's face it, this is not a healthy debate and was never going to be. Nor am I complaining, it's what I expected.

I did, however, recently stumble on your personal reason for feeling so strongly about the subject. You have my sincere sympathy - and a degree of empathy in fact, as I recently went through a similar experience, albeit unrelated to smoking.

Subject: RE: BS: The smoking ban & pubs
From: GUEST,Guest
Date: 28 Mar 08 - 03:34 PM

In Northern Europe,one of every 10 men will die before age 70 and 40% of these deaths will be from tobacco. In contrast, in Western Europe of 10 men aged 35, 3 will die before age 70, and only a third of these deaths will be from tobacco.

Smoking is not often seen as a direct and fatal threat to health due to the long delay between cause and fatal effect. For example, the risk of lung cancer - the main cause of death from tobacco - is higher among those who started before 20 than among those who started later on.

The Surgeon General has estimated that since 1985 tobacco caused around 20% of all US deaths. Smoking is now the number 2 killer of all people in the USA.

Still in 2008, cigarettes and tobacco are big business in the developing economies of the new EU countries as Western and more enlightened governments realise the true and unpalatable cost of smoking and create adverse environments for the tobacco trade. However, the tobacco products manufacturer Philip Morris were keen to point out to the Czech government recently in a report to justify the relaxation of smoking restrictions there, smoking is economically beneficial to a country's finances.

Revenues from tobacco tax make it clear that smoking is good for government finances and it is not surprising that the relatively poorer countries of the European Union are not falling over themselves to tighten up the tobacco trade.

Smoking is extremely good economics for governments is borne out by its reliability to dramatically reduce life expectancy – so as to enable a natural culling of the elderly and a great saving on health care for them as well as retirement housing cost. This could well balance out the cost of medical care for smoking-related illnesses for the younger population.

However, there is even better news for governments, who in addition to wanting to keep old people off their books, are keen to reverse populations growth trends. This news is provided in the form of the report of the British Medical Association (BMA) in February 2008 which confirms that both passive and active smoking have a serious impact on men getting their pricks stiff.

Smoking compromises the ability to have a family and parents who smoke inflict great harm in respect of the health of their born and foetal-stage children.

Subject: RE: BS: The smoking ban & pubs
From: TheSnail
Date: 28 Mar 08 - 10:50 PM

GUEST,Ol' Smokey

My apologies BWM, I was primarily being facetious at the repeated production of statistics.

Just responding to your assertion that "It's a small minority of non-smokers who seem to be really getting wound up about this". You seem to be getting pretty wound up yourself judging by the number of posts.

Have some more statistics -

http://www.bupa.co.uk/health_information/html/health_news/240604smoke.html
http://www.bmj.com/cgi/content/full/320/7226/53

Subject: RE: BS: The smoking ban & pubs
From: GUEST,Ol' Smokey
Date: 28 Mar 08 - 11:57 PM

Then I would recommend not judging it by the number of posts, as it is blatantly a poor indicator. Perhaps you'd like to elicit yet another out of me by replying to this one?

Subject: RE: BS: The smoking ban & pubs
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 29 Mar 08 - 05:01 AM

"What an ill-tempered thread this is!"
This appears to be a side-effect of having to desist from smoking.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: The smoking ban & pubs
From: Sttaw Legend
Date: 29 Mar 08 - 06:31 AM

I could do with a shag!

Subject: RE: BS: The smoking ban & pubs
From: TheSnail
Date: 29 Mar 08 - 07:23 AM

GUEST,Ol' Smokey

Perhaps you'd like to elicit yet another out of me by replying to this one?

OK. Would you like to comment on the links I posted yesterday and the others from 19 Mar 08 - 02:21 PM ?

Subject: RE: BS: The smoking ban & pubs
From: GUEST,Guest
Date: 29 Mar 08 - 07:43 AM

Ol' Smokey, I'm not sure who you are (actually I never heard of you until I stumbled upon this thread) but I was reading what you wrote about your views on the rights of smokers and liked what I read. I admire your stance and philosophy on life. I also admire the composure of which you respond to those who are hopelessly patriotic to a "Big Brother" of a government. When someone like Jim C or Backwoodsman says nasty things to you, rather than demean the person (that would be too easily done) you simply respond with civility and reason... this is even better! It pulls the pants down on the bad ass and shows them that there IS life outside of that small minded world they tend to gather in.

Subject: RE: BS: The smoking ban & pubs
From: Thompson
Date: 29 Mar 08 - 08:34 AM

Funny enough, Jim Carroll, I was just thinking about ill temper and smoking yesterday. I had suddenly put together two facts about a few different friends - they were very edgy, and they were smokers.

In my experience (and yours may, of course, be different), the smokers I know and encounter are often nervy and on edge, and the non-smokers calmer.

The question of whether most non-smokers are exercised about smokers smoking is another interesting one. I've heard many more positive comments about the ban on smoking in pubs than I would have expected.

Again, in my experience, the people who get angry are those who feel that their right to smoke supercedes the right of others not to share their smoke.

I'm sometimes quite surprised by those who get angry. One of the most radical people I know, who has spent years in jail for his political actions, is so infuriated by the ban that he won't go to pubs, but instead drinks at home. He's the last person I would have expected to think that a working man's or woman's right to health was subsidiary to his own right to recreational inhalation.

Subject: RE: BS: The smoking ban & pubs
From: Big Mick
Date: 29 Mar 08 - 09:27 AM

Thompson, I very much appreciate your level approach and post. I have seen the same phenomenon among labor activists here in the States. While it is understandable given the fact that most smokers here are working class, yet still surprising given that these same folks will walk a picket line over Health and Safety issues in the workplace. But the battle for the minds is being one as fewer and fewer smokers are out there annually.

All the best,

Mick

Subject: RE: BS: The smoking ban & pubs
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Mar 08 - 02:25 PM

Snail:
You are confusing correlation with causation, but having said that, please note I have never claimed that smoking is safe. It has merely been inferred by those who apparently feel the need to argue against it. Admittedly, I gave them the opportunity to do that; it is a way of exposing people's 'true colours' and I get some cheap amusement out of it.

Guest Guest:
Thank you for that - note the posts immediately after your own and see how they are now trying to emulate the same qualities :-)

Subject: RE: BS: The smoking ban & pubs
From: GUEST,Ol' Smokey
Date: 29 Mar 08 - 02:26 PM

Sorry about that, forgot to put my name in...

Subject: RE: BS: The smoking ban & pubs
From: Big Mick
Date: 29 Mar 08 - 03:01 PM

Smokey, once again you make a weak attempt at taking some twisted sort of high ground. Why don't you quit moaning, and let it go. You started out trying to somehow make folks that don't want your poisons foisted on them in public places be the bad guys and over reactors. Your position is discredited, and you continue to mope around talking about folks that simply want to breathe clean air as though they are the dolts here. There is no defense of your position. It isn't about pubs closing, it isn't about your rights, it isn't about free speech, it isn't about government inferfering where they shouldn't. It is about keeping your vile poison away from folks that are just out and about living their life. Conversely, on your property, so long as it doesn't interfere with others, please feel free to smoke your brains out. I hope you have cartons stored for future use.

Give it a rest,

Mick

Subject: RE: BS: The smoking ban & pubs
From: GUEST,Ol' Smokey
Date: 29 Mar 08 - 03:23 PM

Mick, do I note a hint of tension?

I actually started out only to agree with Skipy on the subject of pub closures.

You'll be pleased to learn I'm happy and well rested, content in the knowledge that my vile poison is harming no-one but myself. I take full responsibility for my own addiction and I'm well aware of the consequences. There is no defence of my 'position', because there is nothing for you to attack.

Subject: RE: BS: The smoking ban & pubs
From: Big Mick
Date: 29 Mar 08 - 03:53 PM

Nice try from a fairly simple person. I am not tense at all, but I do tire of the constant attempts to mitigate your position. You will get no free ride. Any time you attempt to shift it away from you and your positions, I will drag it back. It helps keep me relaxed. I will do all I can to shift the perception of smoking from some harmless bad habit that poor old smokers should just be able to do, to what it is. And it is a poisonous, vile practice that should be restricted to those places where its practice will not, in any way, subject unwilling and unsuspecting men, women and children to its poisons.

Mick

Subject: RE: BS: The smoking ban & pubs
From: GUEST,Ol' Smokey
Date: 29 Mar 08 - 04:18 PM

So.. who am I, and what is my position? You seem to be an authority on the subject and obviously a man of great intellect - please enlighten me.

Subject: RE: BS: The smoking ban & pubs
From: GUEST,Guest
Date: 29 Mar 08 - 04:51 PM

Mick, what is your position on the Doughnut Brigade ?

Have you ever sat in a single isle aircraft beside a 30 stone sweatbox ?

Is that not offensive ?

Have you ever tried walking along a street in a hurry and met a woman with six asses taking up the whole pavement ?

And then there is the drain on the Health Service due to the "Dig their graves with their teeth brigade" blocking up waiting rooms due to their greed for food intake.

And finally we have the "I am too fat to work brigade" they live of our taxes.


What weight are you Mick ?

Think before you make statements such as

"You will get no free ride. Any time you attempt to shift it away from you and your positions, I will drag it back".

Others may have the same intent.

Subject: RE: BS: The smoking ban & pubs
From: Big Mick
Date: 29 Mar 08 - 05:12 PM

Ladies and Gentlemen, I give you the switch ISP brigade at its finest.

This will be my last post here so have fun.

None of those things, GG2, are hazardous to your health. You may not like them, but they do not inflict physical harm on you for simply being in public.

Peace out,

Mick

Subject: RE: BS: The smoking ban & pubs
From: GUEST,Ol' Smokey
Date: 29 Mar 08 - 05:17 PM

Nifty getout Mick, but it aint right.. although you've cast enough doubt on it to save your face - well done.

Actually I was almost suffocated by a big fat lass once - it was only the fact that I was smoking that saved me.

Subject: RE: BS: The smoking ban & pubs
From: TheSnail
Date: 29 Mar 08 - 09:27 PM

Ol' Smokey (incognito)

You are confusing correlation with causation

I just passed on the links. Tell the United States Surgeon General, the World Health Organisation, the British Medical Association, the California Department of Health, the Environment Protection Agency, the British Medical Journal, BUPA that they are "confused".

You are in denial Ol' Smokey. Typical addictive behaviour. You think that you are taking the piss but you are actually involved in an exercise of self justification. Not to me or Jim or Backwoodsman or Big Mick but to yourself. You know in your heart that you are wrong but your addiction has such a strong hold on you that you cannot admit the truth, even to yourself. Nicotine has you by the throat and is not just screwing up your body but your mind as well. It isn't too late. You can stop if you can find the strength.

Subject: RE: BS: The smoking ban & pubs
From: GUEST,Ol' Smokey
Date: 29 Mar 08 - 09:45 PM

They are not confused TS, they are presenting statistics. My remark was directed at you, not them.

Perhaps you'd tell me what I'm denying? What am I trying to justify? What am I wrong about?

Subject: RE: BS: The smoking ban & pubs
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 30 Mar 08 - 02:44 AM

"Sorry about that, forgot to put my name in... "

Join the forum as a member OS, then you won't have to remember. Also, you might get some credibility amongst members. You've obviously still got at least part of a brain, despite the addiction, why not do something useful with it?

Till then, you're just another troll, nothing constuctive to contribute, just provocative comments posted with the sole intention of winding people up - not my judgment there, you said it yourself, just here to 'piss people off' (seems like a thousand posts ago.....).

I'm outta here too, sick and tired of providing free entertainment for idiot addicts. And I've got a gig tonight to rehearse for - in a lovely, busy, smoke-free pub.

Subject: RE: BS: The smoking ban & pubs
From: GUEST,Guest
Date: 30 Mar 08 - 04:44 AM

Ol' Smokey, don't get brought into debates with the Backwardman. He has already made a total balls out of himself on another thread in which he attacked drug users, only to be told publicly that two people (that once called him a friend) had drug addiction problems within their own families.

So besides a big home goal, his attack was the usual feet in first and no one else is allowed an opinion or viewpoint only him.

Please take my advice and just totally ignore his comments, let him dig big deep holes with his teeth, it's what he is good at.

Subject: RE: BS: The smoking ban & pubs
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 30 Mar 08 - 05:12 AM

"Perhaps you'd tell me what I'm denying? "
You are denying - or at least, failing to admit, that your habit causes offence and does actual physical harm to yourself and others.
The first I can live with - should you wish to 'shuffle off this mortal coil', I would be happy to steady the chair while you tie the rope - your choice.
The contempt with which you regard the comfort and well being of others - that's something else!
Well put Snail.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: The smoking ban & pubs
From: GUEST,Guest
Date: 30 Mar 08 - 06:50 AM

That's a little self-righteous of you Jim.

What is your stance on another health issue which effects others,sodomy is upping the disease Aids.

Recreational sex among homosexuals has contributed in a major way to the plague. Those of us into truth said it, but we were made out to be religious nuts who lost reality's pole.

Addressing the topic of AIDS, the gay community seems to have a collective shrug as if this isn't our problem.

87 percent of the people in this country living with HIV are gay we cannot deny that HIV is a gay disease. We have to own that and face up to that.

A little over a year ago, Lorri Jean, CEO of the Los Angeles-based Gay and Lesbian Center, similarly shocked the 'gay' community by stating that, "HIV is a Gay Disease".

You know, it really is a mortal phenomenon that shows up quite often. It's that human beings who intentionally have buried truth live long enough to blister with the lie. Then they out with the facts. It happens in sports, politics, religion and so forth.

Therefore, this admission from homosexuals is not ultimately surprising considering that mortals do fester when purposefully hiding the truth over time. At the start, it's kind of a game of hide and seek. Then years go by at times. Years. Then the blister boil can't go untended. It works its way to the surface and bursts forth.

Biblical moralists have said for ages that practising homosexuality is not only a sin but a disease carrier.

Yet we are subjected daily to these people on television soaps, game programmes and talent shows. Go shoot your mouth off that direction.

Twenty years ago it was closet homosexuals, now it's closet smokers.

Subject: RE: BS: The smoking ban & pubs
From: goatfell
Date: 30 Mar 08 - 08:54 AM

the man was a member of a health commity here in Britian and he was a doctor so I tihnk that he might have some knowledge about smoking and health don't you.

anyway don't shoot me down, I tihnk if people want to smoke let them go ahead, I mean no one forced you to buy those things did they now.

Subject: RE: BS: The smoking ban & pubs
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 30 Mar 08 - 11:55 AM

Guest, Guest. What a ludicrous argument. Has anyone ever suffered from the effects of passive anal sex? How can such a thing occur? Please enlighten us! Besides, as far as I know, sodomy in public buildings is illegal, as is forcing the act upon anyone else. Or was that post supposed to be ironic?

Cheers

Dave

Subject: RE: BS: The smoking ban & pubs
From: Alice
Date: 30 Mar 08 - 01:32 PM

That link is to an article by Ewan Turney. I googled Ewan Turney UK reporter. He writes opinion. He also writes for a web site called thesmokersclubinc.com. There is no proof, even in his article, that the smoking ban is closing the pubs. Change in drinking habits, increase costs in other ways, etc. are a pressure on pub owners, stated even in the article written by Turney. He tries to spin it as a result of the ban, but there is no proof.

Subject: RE: BS: The smoking ban & pubs
From: Alice
Date: 30 Mar 08 - 01:42 PM

oops, sorry, I think I responded to the wrong thread on smoking ban!
2 going right now

Subject: RE: BS: The smoking ban & pubs
From: Big Mick
Date: 30 Mar 08 - 02:00 PM

GG2, just as you use the same name as another to confuse, you seek to do the same by dragging the argument into other areas. I hardily recommmend folks just ignore this ignorant crap. It is not relevant to the discussion.

Subject: RE: BS: The smoking ban & pubs
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 30 Mar 08 - 02:58 PM

Guest - guest
Not self righteous - rather, self protective.
Sodomy (unlesS you are talking about anal rape) by its very nature involves a choice made by two people who are aware of the risk they are taking by indulging in unprotected sex.
Smoking is one group of people inflicting their lethal habit onto others.
Of course, I could (as Smokey and others have suggested) go to another pub - but the one I choose to use (and have done regularly for the last ten years, and on annual visits before that, for the last 30) serves good beer, has incredible traditional music sessions and runs a regular pub quiz (all of which I'm extremely partial to!)
Anyway, problem solved; we've had a ban here for several years, and , just like the advert says - "WE'RE LOVIN' IT!!!!!!!!"
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: The smoking ban & pubs
From: GUEST,Guest
Date: 30 Mar 08 - 03:53 PM

Mick you may be aware the clocks in the UK changed last night, but I thought yours changed before us. On the 29th of March you said that was your last post, on the 30th March you returned. Is this a date change thing ?

"Subject: RE: BS: The smoking ban & pubs
From: Big Mick
Date: 29 Mar 08 - 05:12 PM

Ladies and Gentlemen, I give you the switch ISP brigade at its finest.

This will be my last post here so have fun. "

From: Big Mick
Date: 30 Mar 08 - 02:00 PM

GG2, just as you use the same name as another to confuse, you seek to do the same by dragging the argument into other areas. I hardily recommmend folks just ignore this ignorant crap. It is not relevant to the discussion.

Subject: RE: BS: The smoking ban & pubs
From: Big Mick
Date: 30 Mar 08 - 04:06 PM

yeah, but you are such an easy and tempting target that I just can't help myself. So I am not going to debate the subject anymore, just keep an eye on you, and point out your smug, and rather basic, trolling techniques. Obviously it bothers you that I expose your switching identities and using the same handle as others.

Mick

Subject: RE: BS: The smoking ban & pubs
From: GUEST,Ol' Smokey
Date: 30 Mar 08 - 04:14 PM

Jim, nowhere have I denied that my habit can do harm, I have clearly stated the opposite and it's pretty obvious that it causes offence to some people; any admission of that on my part would not make any difference to them or me. I personally do not have a problem with those people on that score and I have always been willing to keep my habit away from them. Whatever contempt for non-smokers in general you think you have seen from me is from your own imagination. Please remember, not everyone is like you - I happen to think everyone deserves well-being and comfort, and I do not discriminate.

Subject: RE: BS: The smoking ban & pubs
From: TheSnail
Date: 30 Mar 08 - 04:32 PM

GUEST,Ol' Smokey

They are not confused TS, they are presenting statistics. My remark was directed at you, not them.

Sorry, but I merely asked if you would like to comment on the links I posted. Why does that make me confused?

Perhaps you'd tell me what I'm denying?

The facts about a your dependance on a drug that will almost certainly shorten your life and may well end it in a particularly unpleasant way.

What am I trying to justify?

Your self-destructive addiction which harms not only you but those around you.

What am I wrong about?

Your overwhelming conviction that you are in the right.

Er, would you like to comment on the links I posted?

Subject: RE: BS: The smoking ban & pubs
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 30 Mar 08 - 07:27 PM

Smoking is one group of people inflicting their lethal habit onto others. That is no longer significantly the case in public places, now that smoking is no longer happening in pubs and so forth.

So going on about it in an insulting way is no longer relevant. It's an activity which some people enjoy, and which exposes them to health risks, but then that applies to a lot of things - motor racing, bungy jumping, gay sex... Nobody's business to slag people off for going in for stuff like that, so long as it's not forced on the rest of us.
..................

I see the Isle of Man has now brought in a ban - but including provision for smoking rooms in hotels and private clubs. Sensible enough - so long as the smokers look after these themselves and don't expect staff to do so.

Subject: RE: BS: The smoking ban & pubs
From: GUEST,Ol' Smokey
Date: 30 Mar 08 - 08:20 PM

Snail, I didn't say you were confused, you know that. I was in fact indirectly commenting on the links, which seem to consist of educated conjectures based on statistical correlation. Perhaps you were hoping I'd say they were all wrong.. The rest I have already answered in my previous post.

MGr, your rationality is like a breath of fresh air, though you've obviously never been landed on by a bungy jumper I'll wager.