BS: RosieO'Donnell&WillieNelson on 9/11

Subject: RE: BS: Rosie O'Donnell & 9/11
From: Peace
Date: 29 Mar 07 - 11:32 AM

Froth:

I wish to offer a word of avvice--unsolicited.

Basically, I enjoy the posts you make. I have read amny of them before, because I happen to think there is an attempt to take over governments, people, economies. This is not news to me. My looking into it goes back over twenty years. I do not care who thinks I'm crazy. Hell, I AM crazy. I will and do argue with Ron, Spaw, Ebbie, Don Firth (sometimes LH) and a few other people about it. But I also happen to respect them and their views. I think they are wrong. They think the same of my views. However, not you or anyone else is going to refer to them as morons simply because no one rose to your post. In short words, shove THAT up yer ass. Keep that in mind, boychik.

Subject: RE: BS: Rosie O'Donnell & 9/11
From: GUEST,Froth
Date: 29 Mar 07 - 01:46 PM

Oh, is this a popularity contest? What's the goal, to see who can be the most gutless, or the most moronic? You folks would make it a hard choice. Dick Cheney is guilty (a third grader playing DA for a Day would consider the points I made sufficient for an indictment), yet you can't even answer the fucking question. And the answer is SO obvious that your reluctance to acknowledge Cheney and Rumsfeld did 9/11 must be due to cowardice. You want to quibble over bullshit speculative issues and ignore the blood-smeared murderer glaring straight into your eyes. So I retract the moron designation but I have to stick with gutless. And if I had to pick a winner in that category, it would be a hard, hard choice. Cheney's getting ready to nuke Iran, so fuck your civility. You either get on the blower to your representatives and tell them to stop the war, or the world of Anglo-America is going to be dead in 5 years.

Subject: RE: BS: Rosie O'Donnell & 9/11
From: Peace
Date: 29 Mar 07 - 01:54 PM

Tell you what: If he doesn't nuke Iran will you please piss off? You just hit my shit list, and from now on NO civility at all from me. Fuck you, shitforbrains.

Subject: RE: BS: Rosie O'Donnell & 9/11
From: Peace
Date: 29 Mar 07 - 02:00 PM

BTW, I was blowin' the whistle on this on Mudcat two/three years ago. Fuck you again.

Subject: RE: BS: Rosie O'Donnell & 9/11
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 29 Mar 07 - 02:05 PM

"What's the goal, to see who can be the most gutless, or the most moronic?"

Congratulations Froth, you win!


"a third grader playing DA for a Day would consider the points I made sufficient for an indictment"

Which is probably why the rest of us have learned that your points don't add up. You just don't have the guts to admit you are living a lie.

Subject: RE: BS: Rosie O'Donnell & 9/11
From: GUEST,Froth
Date: 29 Mar 07 - 10:41 PM

Thank you. Thank you for the accolades. I don't recall you blowing me 2-3 years ago Peace. Could be that it was all in your head.

Olesko once again avoids the obvious. Dick Cheney exhibited criminal demeanor before, during and after the crime. He stood to gain, he had motivation, access, means, etc. The public record alone can convict him of taking part in 9/11. You 9/11 truth deniers are a sad lot. You have enabled the trigger man of 9/11 to assume the commandant's seat for the upcoming nuking of Iran. History will revile you. My country will be destroyed because you supported an obviously criminal regine.

O'DONNELL: ...I'm saying that in America we are fed propaganda and if you want to know what's happening in the world go outside of the U.S. media because it's owned by four corporations one of them is this one. And you know what, go outside of the country to find out what's going on in our country because it's frightening. It's frightening.

HASSELBECK: So you think we're being brainwashed as a whole country? I think not. I think it's a media

O'DONNELL: Democracy is threatened in a way it hasn't been in 200 years and if America doesn't stand up we're in big trouble.

HASSELBECK: Do you believe that the government had anything to do with the attack of 9/11? Do you believe in a conspiracy in terms of the attack of 9/11?

O'DONNELL: No. But I do believe the first time in history that fire has ever melted steel. I do believe that it defies physics for the World Trade Center Tower Seven, building seven, which collapsed in on itself, it is impossible for a building to fall the way it fell without explosives being involved, World Trade Center Seven. World Trade Center one and Two got hit by plains. Seven, miraculously, for the first time in history, steel was melted by fire. It is physically impossible.

HASSELBECK: And who do you think is responsible for that?

O'DONNELL: I have no idea. But to say that we don't know it was imploded, that there was implosion in the demolition, is beyond ignorant. Look at the film. Get a physics expert here from Yale, from Harvard. Pick the school. It defies reason.

http://newsbusters.org/node/11710

Subject: RE: BS: Rosie O'Donnell & 9/11
From: balladeer
Date: 29 Mar 07 - 11:04 PM

"My country will be destroyed because you supported an obviously criminal regime."

This kind of accusation goes way beyond acceptable debate language, Froth. Clearly you're feeling upset and helpless and frustrated with the political process, but do you really think suggesting your fellow debaters are quislings will help you get your points across?

Subject: RE: BS: Rosie O'Donnell & 9/11
From: Peace
Date: 30 Mar 07 - 12:04 AM

Fuck you, froth. You talk about people here being so inferior to you. Look, prickface, if you had the sense God gave a turnip, you wouldn't alienate the people who might be inclined to agree with you. It's assholes like you who make us look like fucking lunatics. YOU are as much the fucking problem as are the damned Neocons. Stop being so goddamned self-righteous. And fuck yourself while you're at it.

Subject: RE: BS: Rosie O'Donnell & 9/11
From: Peace
Date: 30 Mar 07 - 12:39 AM

As to your remark: it's the last of your posts I will read. You juat ain't worth it. Your egocentric and ethnocentric shit defies logic. It is not the United States of America that stands to lose the most. It's the whole damned world that stands to lose. You sound like another colonialist worrying only about what happens to YOUR country. Idiot!

Subject: RE: BS: Rosie O'Donnell & 9/11
From: Little Hawk
Date: 30 Mar 07 - 12:58 AM

Thinking that the USA is far more important than the whole rest of the world put together is a little pill that all American kids are given right from the day they enter 1st Grade, Peace. They are told so again and again and again that they are living in "the greatest country on Earth" and that they have more freedom and liberty and goodness and truth than any other place on Earth. They are brainwashed to go out and help conquer the world, supposedly for its own good! They are constantly being psychologically prepared for the next war. You know how many of their presidents were former generals and military men and how much it helped them get elected that they were? Quite a few. That tells you something. I know about this brainwashing and ethnocentricity firsthand, cos I went to school mostly in the USA. Being an expatriate Canadian, however, I wasn't susceptible to the barrage of political programming directed at us young minds. I questioned what very few of the others did. I knew I was being manipulated. They didn't (although some of them were woken up quite a bit by the protest movement in the 60s).

Subject: RE: BS: Rosie O'Donnell & 9/11
From: Big Mick
Date: 30 Mar 07 - 06:27 AM

I finally understand, LH. Shit, I wish I had known this!!!! So being an expatriate kid from Canada gave you some unknown wisdom, and you had a genetic predisposition not to fall for the brainwashing that all the other kids fell for. Had I know this, I would have had my kids in Canada.

Subject: RE: BS: Rosie O'Donnell & 9/11
From: Little Hawk
Date: 30 Mar 07 - 09:19 AM

Well, I simply already had a basis of comparison, Mick. I lived in Canada from age 1 to 10. It's a very different psychological upbringing, because the root assumptions about our country and its role in the world are radically different than in the USA. We don't see ourselves as the boss/mentor/example/policeman to everyone else, telling them how they shoud live. We see ourselves as one country among many, that's all...an association of relative equals in a large and varied world. We seek accomodation, not confrontation. We do not assume the mantle of "ruling superpower".

Then we moved to upstate New York when I was 10...because of what my father considered a business opportunity at the time.

So as a younger child I had been brought up in a society that still proudly considered itself part of the British tradition. To us Canadians the Redcoats were the "good guys" of history...just like our mounted police. Suddenly I find myself transplanted into a society where the Redcoats are the "bad guys" and are vilified constantly in history classes. I become acutely aware of this right from Grade 4 on, and it just keeps getting worse. Well, that made me suspicious right away, because it went against my cultural grain, so I wasn't about to buy it.

*(In all fairness, the American revolutionaries had quite legitimate reasons to pick a fight with Great Britain in the 1770s, and you can definitely argue for the rightness of their cause. On the other hand, many colonists sided with the British at the time. They were called "Loyalists" and many of them fled to Canada at the conclusion of that war. I grew up in a country that honoured the Loyalist tradition and that had remained somewhat suspicious of the American approach to things ever since the 1770s, and that had also been attacked by the USA in 1812-1814. None of that has been forgotten.)*

So I was a natural sceptic when it came to standard American rhetoric, because it had not been implanted in me since day one of my life, and it rubbed me the wrong way. I had seen something else first. However, I had to put up with it right through till I was 21...when I moved back to Canada. I fought it every inch of the way.

And that's just a brief explanation. There was a lot more to it than that. The entire time I was in the USA I felt like an alien living in a foreign land, and I deeply missed my own country which is every bit as free as the USA (if not more so) and which is a hell of a lot less inclined to go all over the world attacking other people (although we are not completely innocent in that regard...we used to be a satellite of Imperial England and its policies...we are now a satellite of corporate America and its policies...but we remain essentially far more liberal and far less aggressive internationally than America).

America nowadays is in the same position of hubris in the world that Great Britain was in, say, 1816 to 1914...it sees itself as the dominant conquering empire and greatest financial power of its time. So far. Someone else will come along and supplant America in that role presently. Someone always does. Maybe China.

That won't necessarily be so great either...but it is as inevitable as the changing of the seasons. Empires have their day and then it's over.

Subject: RE: BS: Rosie O'Donnell & 9/11
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 30 Mar 07 - 09:22 AM

Peace, don't let Froth get you upset. He/she is suffering as all of us can see from the ranting posts.   I love how he gets upset and starts using my surname as if that makes him tough. It is a well known move that troll use when they are unveiled as cowards. He/she would wet their pants if they came face to face with one of us in a real debate. The name "Froth" becomes so fitting!

Anyone that uses Rosie O'Donnell as a source of information has a warped sense or reality. Rosie has no more knowledge than any of us, but she has to build an audience in order to keep her career going. Celebrities as spokespeople serve a purpose - but star-struck people like Froth blur the fine line of reality and treat celebs like prophets.   I really hope Froth gets the help that he/she needs so that they can get back their grip on reality.

Subject: RE: BS: Rosie O'Donnell & 9/11
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 30 Mar 07 - 09:28 AM

"Well, that made me suspicious right away, because it went against my cultural grain, so I wasn't about to buy it."

Little Hawk, that one statement shows that you too are "brainwashed". Your comments are reflecting what you consider to be a better way of life due to your upbringing in Canada. It is a bias, just like the rest of us have to our homes. There is nothing different here. The folks from the UK speak with an air of superiority as well - it is cultural bias that none of us can esacpe from.

As for the U.S. being a superpower - yes it is. It is also a country that other nations seem to turn to for support as well. Yes, there are extremists like our current regime that feels it gives us carte blanche to be the boss of the world - but don't let you bias fool you into thinking that the entire country is like that. You aren't the only one who feels the way you do.

It should also be remembered that when we were known as isolationists, the world's view of us was just as bad.

Subject: RE: BS: Rosie O'Donnell & 9/11
From: Little Hawk
Date: 30 Mar 07 - 01:08 PM

Of course I'm biased, Ron. Everybody is biased in that sense.   Everyone has a natural tendency to believe in and back the values that were around them when they first came into this existence. They take it for granted.

However, growing up in 2 different countries does give a person a bit more awareness of possible options, I think. It's an eye-opener. You don't take stuff quite so much for granted after that. I totally supported the British empire traditions in my mind when I was a little boy. I was innocent, and they were my 'good guys'. By the time I became an adult I began to see that the British themselves had gone out aggressively into the world and done many of the sort of things I now criticize the USA for doing. They inflicted their way of life on other people for their own gain, caused a lot of bloodshed and exploitation, and pretended to be doing it for all kinds of very laudable reasons.

I am as sceptical of British intentions now as I am of American or Russian or Chinese intentions.

And I am fully aware that I am biased, and I even poke fun at it sometimes. It's the people who are completely unaware of their habitual biases that worry me. They can be dangerous.

Subject: RE: BS: Rosie O'Donnell & 9/11
From: Donuel
Date: 30 Mar 07 - 01:44 PM

I was watching u tube 911 conspiracy videos last night
The strangest one showed isolated WTC steel beams seemingly turning to dust. (easy to fake video but I haven't seen that shot without the dust phenomenon yet)

Subject: RE: BS: Rosie O'Donnell & 9/11
From: GUEST,Froth
Date: 30 Mar 07 - 01:53 PM

http://patriotsquestion911.com/media.html

A list of prominent people questioning 9/11. More added every day. The dam is breaking.

Let's see...yes balladeer, people need to be slapped upside the head intellectually from time to time. If the truth doesn't get through, then make them mad. Anything to get the blood flowing through the neurons. As far as 'quislings' the only one I see on this thread is Olesko. He's actually turned against his country and is arguing there's some validity to the terrorist govt's transparent lie about what happened on 9/11. The other defenders of the lie are just in denial, probably willful at this point since the evidence of govt involvement in the terrorism is so overwhelming.

As for the Canadians, they live at the sufference of the Queen of England and they don't even know it. What more can you say? They also have no immigration policy, which they boast about, but because of that lack of policy, Canada is used as a toilet stop for illegals on their way to the U.S. But then Canadians probably don't see it that way. They just think they're tolerant and advanced and all that.

Peace seems to want acknowledgement for some real or imagined contributions to something, so I hereby grant him full acknowledgement for whatever that undefined thing is. His use of the term 'colonialist' is interesting. The liberal left has been duped into thinking a one-world govt is the answer to everything, but to enter into that state of affairs, nations will have to be sacrificed. And that's a problem. The only protection against a tyrannical world govt is nationalism. Not expansive colonialism, but nationalism. I favor the U.S. bringing home all troops now and letting the world live in peace. Hardly a colonialist mindset. The TRUE colonialist mindset is the U.N. approach...an ever-expanding governmental agency that will absorb all nations.

Centralized/federalized govt is bad. Smaller govt is good. And hopefully this O'Donnell thing will now create a rush of people coming out with their opinions on 9/11. That could create a backlash against the wars of aggression and against the expanding, oppressive govt. About time. I hope it's not too late.

Subject: RE: BS: Rosie O'Donnell & 9/11
From: GUEST,Froth
Date: 30 Mar 07 - 02:01 PM

You're talking about the 'spire', Donuel. That is also, to me, the strangest thing I've seen in all those videos. The MASSIVE array of central support core columns that just seem to turn to dust and blow away, like chaff in a wind. Amazing. Could have been thermite wraps going off late, atomizing the steel. A freaky sight.

Subject: RE: BS: Rosie O'Donnell & 9/11
From: Little Hawk
Date: 30 Mar 07 - 03:48 PM

Thermite can be used to very quickly destroy steel beams.

Froth, Canada does have an immigration policy. You have to apply for landed immigrant status to move here. To do that and secure such status you have to meet various educational and professional guidelines, relating to what kind of work you are able to contribute. Many people can't pass those guidelines. Some people get in as refugees, depending on the situation. It is certainly not the case that everyone gets in who wants to. I think our immigration policy is fairly similar to many other developed countries in the West, but we do take in more immigrants per capita than any other country in the G8. We can afford to, because we have a lot of land for the size of our population, and there is room to expand.

Your talk about the Queen's power over us is pointless. People here think very little about the Queen anymore. Who really controls Canada is the same as in your country. The big multinational financial interests control Canada. That means: the major corporations and the major banking houses. They are, of course, in collusion with the House of Windsor and the other royal houses in Europe and they also run the American government. They run just about every western government. Why? Because "money talks".

We are in the same hole you are in, except for one thing: we don't share a common border with Mexico!!! That's where it really hits you guys. People have to fly to get to Canada...or else they have to go all the way through the USA first...and why would they bother to do that when they can get work in California or Texas or Arizona? Any surprise why fewer Latin American illegal immigrants get across the Canadian border under those georaphical circumstances?

We're just geographically lucky, that's all! We've got the biggest buffer state in the world between us and the impoverished millions in Mexico and south of there. ;-) Too bad for you Yanks. Seems to me you deserve it though, because the USA stole California and the entire American Southwest from Mexico back in the 1800s. It's poetic justice for the Latinos to move back in there.

Subject: RE: BS: Rosie O'Donnell & 9/11
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 30 Mar 07 - 11:50 PM

The freaky part was all the steel that was left in the rubble. The steel did not evaporate as you have been led to believe.

Froth, if you wish to say that I've turned against my country, I invite you to say that to my face. Your credibility was low to begin with and when you start questioning someone elses feeling about their country while acting like a coward and hiding out anonymously, then you have just shown that your own deficiencies. Get some help. You are spending too much time alone.

Subject: RE: BS: Rosie O'Donnell & 9/11
From: GUEST,Peter Woodruff
Date: 31 Mar 07 - 10:04 PM

We use thermite at Bath Iron Works to fuse crane rails together.

Peter

Subject: RE: BS: Rosie O'Donnell & 9/11
From: Little Hawk
Date: 31 Mar 07 - 10:10 PM

Cool. Now what we need is something similarly powerful that can disconnect a dachshund from a sparerib bone that he has gotten hold of.

Subject: RE: BS: Rosie O'Donnell & 9/11
From: GUEST
Date: 31 Mar 07 - 10:15 PM

Maybe we could fuse the dachshund to a cran rail.

Peter

Subject: RE: BS: Rosie O'Donnell & 9/11
From: Peace
Date: 31 Mar 07 - 10:26 PM

LH. Put a dash of mustard just underneath his tail. Trust me, he'll let the sparerib bone go.

Subject: RE: BS: Rosie O'Donnell & 9/11
From: Little Hawk
Date: 31 Mar 07 - 10:43 PM

LOL!!! Yeah, but would he ever trust me again?

Subject: RE: BS: Rosie O'Donnell & 9/11
From: Peace
Date: 31 Mar 07 - 10:43 PM

Not if you use Keen's Mustard.

Subject: RE: BS: Rosie O'Donnell & 9/11
From: Peace
Date: 31 Mar 07 - 10:47 PM

I had a German Shepherd that did something similar with the thigh bone of a calf. I got it for her as a joke. She thought I was serious. She dragged that damned thing around with her for about two weeks before I took it away from her. She sulked--honest, SULKED--for about two days. I got the cold shoulder, the 'look', the sighs. LOL. Loved that dog.

Subject: RE: BS: Rosie O'Donnell & 9/11
From: Little Hawk
Date: 01 Apr 07 - 12:58 AM

Yeah, dogs take ownership damn seriously when it comes to things like that.

We had a dog that didn't "talk" to my father for about three days after such an incident. He wouldn't even acknowledge my Dad's existence. Wouldn't even look at him.

Subject: RE: BS: Rosie O'Donnell & 9/11
From: Don Firth
Date: 01 Apr 07 - 02:14 PM

Some years back, my sister Pat and her husband John owned a poodle. Not the full-sized one or the smallest one. The medium-sized poodle. Neat dog. Very intelligent.

They usually didn't have her clipped in the usual poodle manner, so most of the time she looked like a small, wooly black sheep. They did have her done up once. Pat took her to one of those canine beauty parlors where she was given the full treatment:   clipped, bathed, perfumed, manicured, and fitted with a red bow. When my sister brought the dog home, for the next several days, she pranced around the house, posing. She knew she was gorgeous! They didn't do that often, though. Pricey.

On one occasion, Pat and John took a trip, and left her—and the house—in the care of a house-sitter. Apparently, the dog resented not being taken along and/or being left in the care of a relative stranger. When Pat and John returned, instead of meeting them at the door as she usually did, she just stood in the middle of the living room, glared reproachfully at them, and peed on the carpet.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Rosie O'Donnell & 9/11
From: GUEST,Froth
Date: 01 Apr 07 - 10:16 PM

Let's see...

Okay, Little Hawk, there's no queen. Canada is a stand-alone giant among the G-8 and has a rigid immigration policy, except that it lets in more than any of the other G-8 country and then most of those "immigrants to Canada" don't even put the seat down on their way to the U.S. Thank you in advance for the open-door policy that the CIA will point to after it nukes an American city.

And as far as people stealing land, unless "Latinos" are indigenous Americans, they're Spanish/Indian. So it's okay for Europeans to "take back" an area of land as long as they raped the natives hundreds of years before? I'm missing something there. But probably a quarter or more of the couples around here are Anglo/Hispanic, so the racial thing is moot. Besides, when illegals show up, we just tell them to go north because there's lots of land and room to expand in Canada.

Let's see...dogs, dogs, dogs, Firth.

Back on topic:

ROSIE O'DONNELL TOKYO ROSIE
http://www.postchronicle.com/commentary/article_21272284.shtml
(Gotta stir up misplaced patriotic fervor among the WW2 crowd)

'POPULAR MECHANICS' ANSWERS ROSIE O'DONNELL'S CHALLENGE TO 9/11 EXPERTS
http://newsbusters.org/node/11737
(Problem is Pop Mech is a Hearst yellow journalism publication, and the "debunking" piece was written by Benjamin Chertoff, cousin of Homeland Security director Michael Chertoff. Michael Chertoff isn't even a real American, and his cousin has written the "9/11 debunking" article most often quoted. Gimme a break)

(And here's a battle of the celebrities. Wasn't Bonaduce on the Partidge Family TV show?):
MSNBC's Joe Scarborough had the washed up childhood actor and former drug addict Danny Bonaduce on his show. "Personally I think at this point if anyone had a rope thick enough, I think that Rosie should be strung up for treason,"....
http://uruknet.info/?p=m31794&s1=h1

That's nice. If you speak out against the govt's absurd 19-men-with-boxcutters conspiracy, you should be hanged. Bonaduce's such a pervert they could get him to say anything. No telling what kind of dirt they have on him. I guess he's going to be the lead govt spokesman on 9/11 now, huh? Sheen and O'Donnell may not be saints...unless you compare them to Bonaduce. Unfortunately, this is the kind of mud rasslin' that will make non-internet people aware of the govt crime committed on 9/11.

Subject: RE: BS: Rosie O'Donnell & 9/11
From: Don Firth
Date: 01 Apr 07 - 11:24 PM

Frothing at the keyboard. . . .

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Rosie O'Donnell & 9/11
From: Peace
Date: 02 Apr 07 - 12:27 AM

What ever happened to the debris from the Twin Towers? Anyone know?

Subject: RE: BS: Rosie O'Donnell & 9/11
From: Little Hawk
Date: 02 Apr 07 - 12:39 AM

They got rid of it as quickly as possible, Peace. If you commit a crime and don't want to get caught, it's important to remove all the evidence if you possibly can.

Thermite melts steel. Very quickly. An aviation fuel fire does not burn anywhere near hot enough to melt steel, no matter how big that fire is, and no matter how long it burns. To melt the steel support structures in those buildings you would have needed a blast furnace, an atomic bomb, or some strategically placed thermite...which would have to be put in place by professional demolition people who knew exactly what they were doing.

Since a blast furnace and an A-bomb are out of the question, I suggest that it was thermite which melted the steel. Al Queda did not put it there.

Froth - Don't worry about Canada. You have way bigger stuff to worry about than Canada, I assure you.

Subject: RE: BS: Rosie O'Donnell & 9/11
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 02 Apr 07 - 10:13 AM

The debris from the WTC is in a landfill in Staten Island.   Many portions were also removed and have become memorials in many local towns, as well as perhaps elsewhere in the country. I have heard some of the steel was melted down and used in the construction of navy ships.

I know it is easy to think that the steel melted, but that has not been proven - at least that I have found. There is evidence of aluminum melting, which would be common in a building fire that also involved an airplane.

Subject: RE: BS: Rosie O'Donnell & 9/11
From: Wolfgang
Date: 02 Apr 07 - 11:01 AM

On the domestic front, an example of the Illuminati "dialectic" at work is Rosie O'Donnell's recent pronouncements on 9-11. The Lesbian poster child sounds like Alex Jones. Her function is to cast the opposition in the mold of the 1960's anti-war movement, focusing blame on Bush and "the government" instead of the long-term international conspiracy ultimately responsible.

from here

Wolfgang (fighting one conspiracy theory with another)

Subject: RE: BS: Rosie O'Donnell & 9/11
From: bobad
Date: 02 Apr 07 - 11:10 AM

Aha!

Subject: RE: BS: Rosie O'Donnell & 9/11
From: Little Hawk
Date: 02 Apr 07 - 02:24 PM

Competing conspiracy theories are fun. They can really add spice to a debate.

Ron, does the official view on 911 not assert that the steel beams were weakened by the heat of the fire, bent and gave way, and the buildings then fell down, floor by floor?

An aviation fuel fire does not burn hot enough to have that effect on steel beams. Not nearly hot enough, in fact.

A steel frame skyscaper building in Madrid burned hot and hard, eventually right up to the top floor for over 24 hours. It did not collapse and fall, despite having a huge construction crane sitting on its roof. The steel beams remained rigid and in place. No other modern steel frame skyscrapers in the world have ever collapsed and fallen into their own footprint due to a fire. Only the 3 at the WTC (supposedly).

Steel beams cannot fail due to the heat of burning aviation fuel. They could, however, easily fail if taken out by thermite and shaped charges...as can be done in a controlled demolition. If so, the building will come down at virtually freefall speed and fall into its own footprint. That's if you do it right...which takes a good deal of prior experience.

I think the airplanes were a spectacular visual demonstration intended to deceive. They did major damage, all right. They provided a red herring for people to focus on. But I don't think they were what ultimately brought down those buildings, because you can't melt steel beams (or cause them to bend and give way) by burning aviation fuel around them...although you certainly can melt the aluminum in the airplanes themselves.

Subject: RE: BS: Rosie O'Donnell & 9/11
From: GUEST,Froth
Date: 02 Apr 07 - 02:42 PM

http://www.infowars.com/articles/sept11/wtc_7_huge_amounts_of_smoke_came_from_wtc_5_6.htm

Just go there for a comparison of Bldgs 7, 5 & 6. 5&6 still standing...burned out hulks of steel girders. 7 barely damaged and brought down in a neat little pile. This is an incredibly well-presented article but it takes a minute to load.

Building 7 was perhaps the most solidly-built civilian building in the world. It was a steel building on top of a steel building, and in addition, it had just undergone an additional multi-million dollar upgrade to fortify its 20-floor observation deck which overlooked the rest of the complex. 7 housed the regional offices of all the major law enforcement and regulatory agencies. It was as indestructible as a civilian building could be.

Yet look at the pictures farther down in the article. Hardly any fires in 7 = total collapse. All-consuming fires in 6 & 5 = leftover steel frame.

That's what O'Donnell is talking about. Firemen and cops said the building was going to be "pulled" (industry term for "demolished"), the owner Silverstein said it too. So the building came down as the owner wanted. What's the big deal? Why does that make O'Donnell a conspiracy nut? Answer: because it goes against the official "myth" that was created and broadcast by the media beginning on 9/11. The media must demonize O'Donnell to keep you from looking at what she's SAYING.

Subject: RE: BS: Rosie O'Donnell & 9/11
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 02 Apr 07 - 02:57 PM

I believe the official view does state that they were weakened - but they do not use the word "melt" as you are doing. That is a huge difference.

Burning fuel, not to mention other materials in the building, can create heat that would weaken the structure - but not "melt".

Your inference gives an impression that the steel melted away, and if you saw the site you would have realized that the beams did not disappear.

You also need to add the stress caused by the impact of the planes that damaged the core. It was not simply the fires.

The Madrid skyscraper is not a apt comparision because
a)the buildings were not the same construction.
b)the Madrid skyscraper was significantly smaller
c)the Madrid skyscraper did not suffer structurual damage from a plane loaded with fuel crashing into it at 500 miles per hour

You are right, thermite could also cause distress to the steel - but no one has shown any logical way that the thermite could have been planted in the building and orchestrated in such a fashion.   

It does not make any sense that a plot would have been approved that would require a Rube Goldberg plan that requires that many steps and points of complication. That is the crap of science fiction that depends on a reader dropping all logic to accept the premise.

Also, here is a Canadian report on the collapse - A Canadian Report

Subject: RE: BS: Rosie O'Donnell & 9/11
From: Little Hawk
Date: 02 Apr 07 - 03:02 PM

Here's a theory, Froth... Perhaps Building 7 contained the control and observation center from which the controlled demolitions were managed, from which the signals that triggered a sequence of explosive charges were sent. It was well positioned for such a purpose. If so, it would have been then destroyed itself in order to erase all evidence of such an operation...as well as for a number of other purposes which have already been talked about quite a bit on various sites.

There's another conspiracy theory. Love it or hate it, depending on your bias.

Subject: RE: BS: Rosie O'Donnell & 9/11
From: Peace
Date: 02 Apr 07 - 03:09 PM

Steel melts at about 2500 F. Aluminum and magnesium at about 1250 F. I have never seen steel burn, but I have seen magnesium and aluminum burn. Quite a sight. New engine blocks are a bit of a nightmare for firefighters. Basically, if yer gonna put water on a burning block, you'd better have enough to KEEP putting water on that block until the temperature is lowered below its ignition point or it can and sometimes does explode. The 'shrapnel' from that can cause serious injury/death.

Subject: RE: BS: Rosie O'Donnell & 9/11
From: Don Firth
Date: 02 Apr 07 - 03:11 PM

Good science fiction begins with known science and then extrapolates from that. Just making stuff up is fantasy--but even good fantasy has to be consistent with some facts.

Considering the number of people that would have to be involved in Froth's conspiracy, I find that the fact that there have been no leaks or whistle-blowers stretches the "willing suspension of disbelief" beyond the breaking point.

And that's just for openers.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Rosie O'Donnell & 9/11
From: Little Hawk
Date: 02 Apr 07 - 03:15 PM

"but no one has shown any logical way that the thermite could have been planted in the building and orchestrated in such a fashion."

Huh? No one has? What about the people who worked in the building who saw various work crews going in and out with heavy containers, rolls of wire, for what purpose no one knew? What about the weekend before Sept 11th, when some kind of extensive work was going on of that sort? There's all kinds of stuff about it on the Net, for heaven's sake.

All you need is a bunch of supposed "workers", clad in ordinary construction gear, to go in and place thermite and explosive charges in predetermined places and wire it up. And why would anyone suspect they were doing anything wrong whatsoever until maybe some time after the 911 attacks happened? It would just have looked like they were doing some kind of normal maintenance work. What's so hard about arranging that?

All it takes, Ron, is the decision at a high enough level to do it. The rest is a snap. No one questions an official looking maintenance crew that is going around in a building doing some kind of what appears to be routine maintenance. People take stuff like that for granted.

Subject: RE: BS: Rosie O'Donnell & 9/11
From: beardedbruce
Date: 02 Apr 07 - 03:16 PM

Here's a theory, Little Hawk... Perhaps Building 7 contained the control and observation center from which the Martians observed, from which the signals that triggered the gravity generators were sent. It was well positioned for such a purpose. If so, it would have been then destroyed itself in order to erase all evidence of such an operation...

I have as much proof as you do for your theory... The buildings did collapse, you know.

Subject: RE: BS: Rosie O'Donnell & 9/11
From: Little Hawk
Date: 02 Apr 07 - 03:18 PM

And if someone did ask questions, they would naturally have a credible sounding answer ready, wouldn't they?

"We're upgrading the phone lines." "We're installing new fireproofing." Whatever.....

Subject: RE: BS: Rosie O'Donnell & 9/11
From: beardedbruce
Date: 02 Apr 07 - 03:18 PM

After all, we all could see how gravity brought the buildings down. Obviously there were gravity generators brought in by those work"men"
to increase the pull of gravity until the buildiong collapsed.

Subject: RE: BS: Rosie O'Donnell & 9/11
From: Little Hawk
Date: 02 Apr 07 - 03:25 PM

Yeah, BB, but your theory was obviously tongue-in-cheek, intended simply to ridicule. Mine wasn't.

Neither one of us is in a position to provide proof. That's why I said it was a theory. Some theories are more plausible than others, but it depends on your pre-existing emotional bias how you will rate any given theory for plausibility.

Why didn't gravity bring down buildings 5 and 6? They burned much worse than building 7 did, and one of them got a great big hole knocked in the center of it by falling debris from the main tower nearest to it. Gravity still did not bring them down. Why?

Subject: RE: BS: Rosie O'Donnell & 9/11
From: Big Mick
Date: 02 Apr 07 - 03:26 PM

So ... I am probably just a little slow ..... but I need to know. If there was a conspiracy ..... why?

Subject: RE: BS: Rosie O'Donnell & 9/11
From: Little Hawk
Date: 02 Apr 07 - 03:29 PM

Martians have nothing to gain from getting the American public mad enough to go to war. Therefore no motive.

(at least I don't think so) ;-)

But maybe you know something about those devious Martians that I don't, BB. By all means, tell us more...

Subject: RE: BS: Rosie O'Donnell & 9/11
From: Little Hawk
Date: 02 Apr 07 - 03:32 PM

200!!!

Man, I just can't wait to hear more about the Martian angle...