BS: Pope's visit to DC/US

Subject: BS: Pope's visit to DC/US
From: beardedbruce
Date: 16 Apr 08 - 02:18 PM

I hate to see something as historical as this go by without Mudcat discussion.


Just to start it on a musical footing...

VATICAN RAG
(Tom Lehrer)

First get down on your knees
Fiddle with your rosary beads
Bow your head with great respect
Then genuflect, genuflect, genuflect

Do most any step you want if
You have cleared it with the Pontiff
Everybody say his own
Kyrie Elieson

Get into that small confessional
Step in line in that processional
There the guy who's got religion'll
Tell you if your sin's original

If it is, try playing it safer
Drink the wine and chew the wafer
Two- four- six- eight
Time to transubstantiate

Make a cross on your abdomen
When in Rome do like a Roman
Ave Maria,
Gee, it's good to see you
Doing the Vatican Rag

Copyright Tom Lehrer

Subject: RE: BS: Pope's visit to DC/US
From: beardedbruce
Date: 16 Apr 08 - 02:22 PM

See, lots of music and songs.



WASHINGTON (CNN) -- President Bush, first lady Laura Bush and more than 13,500 spectators welcomed Pope Benedict XVI in an elaborate ceremony Wednesday on the South Lawn of the White House.

In remarks greeting the pope, Bush called the United States "a nation of prayer."

Bush was interrupted by applause as he said, "In a world where some treat life as something to be debased and discarded, we need your message that all human life is sacred and that each of us is willed."

Benedict responded by praising the role of religion in the United States.

"From the dawn of the republic, America's quest for freedom has been guided by the conviction that the principles governing political and social life are intimately linked to a moral order based on the dominion of God the creator," he said.

Earlier, a U.S. Marine Corps band performed the national anthem of the Holy See as well as "The Star-Spangled Banner."

A fife and drum corps in Colonial costumes also played tunes, including "Yankee Doodle," and soprano Kathleen Battle sang "The Lord's Prayer."

The day, with perfect spring weather, was also the pontiff's 81st birthday. After the ceremony concluded, the crowd, led by Battle, serenaded Benedict with "Happy Birthday" as he smiled from a White House balcony. Watch a priest who has known Benedict for years tell what he's like »

Subject: RE: BS: Pope's visit to DC/US
From: Rapparee
Date: 16 Apr 08 - 03:05 PM

In remarks greeting the pope, Bush called the United States "a nation of prayer."

And it is! People praying for the country, actually.

Subject: RE: BS: Pope's visit to DC/US
From: bankley
Date: 16 Apr 08 - 03:35 PM

good one..Rap.   Bush for Pope !

The President, the Pope, and the Dalai Lama walk into a bar,,,
the bartender says 'Is this some kind of joke ?'


The Prez sez, "No, I don't drink any more"
Dalai Lamai sez, "Well, I never did"
The Pope looks at Bush then at the bartender and sez, "I do, for religious reasons, but I heard you haf ze best pretzels in town"

Subject: RE: BS: Pope's visit to DC/US
From: GUEST,Small town jewish gal
Date: 16 Apr 08 - 03:44 PM

I watched it and his voice was very soothing, intelligent and nuanced with understanding. I was appreciative that he had the East Side Synagogue choir sing to him. Shalom. And even more impressed that in writing up a list of 'new' deadly sins, the Pope cited the necessity of seeing the hardheartedness towards those stricken with poverty as a sin. So overall, I am feeling positively about the guy. Really.

But quite frankly, while they were vetting all the possible candidates to be the powerfullly influential leader of one of the most ubiquitous religions in the western world:

wasn't it possible to find ONE who didn't start out as a Nazi?

Subject: RE: BS: Pope's visit to DC/US
From: Beer
Date: 16 Apr 08 - 03:49 PM

Won't take long before this thread takes a negative stance. Although I am not a practicing Catholic, I think what took place today was great and we need more of it.
Beer (adrien)

Subject: RE: BS: Pope's visit to DC/US
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 16 Apr 08 - 03:53 PM

I heard he is going to two ballparks - the new one in DC and Yankee Stadium.   I keep having this image of the Pope walking down the aisle with a foam finger that says #1 on one hand and balancing a tray of nachos in the other.

Subject: RE: BS: Pope's visit to DC/US
From: Rapparee
Date: 16 Apr 08 - 04:02 PM

What an honor! The last Pope to play in Yankee Stadium!

Subject: RE: BS: Pope's visit to DC/US
From: bankley
Date: 16 Apr 08 - 05:38 PM

in the house that Ruth built.... Babe, that is...

my favorite pope was Sixtus the Fifth, or was it Fiftus the Sixth ?

but they never did make it to Firth of Forth....

Subject: RE: BS: Pope's visit to DC/US
From: Donuel
Date: 16 Apr 08 - 05:47 PM

inner with the Pope!

If you are one of the lucky few to get tickets, you can have dinner with the Pope, however there is a tradition that the Pope is to never be seen eating in public so he will attend absentia.

On the other hand he does use the facilities so you still may be able to poop with the Pope.

anyone else notice he sounds just like Dr. Strangelove?

Subject: RE: BS: Pope's visit to DC/US
From: gnu
Date: 16 Apr 08 - 05:52 PM

If ya chat with Benny, say "hi" from me, eh! We go way back. Well, he does.

Subject: RE: BS: Pope's visit to DC/US
From: Donuel
Date: 16 Apr 08 - 05:55 PM

Yankee stadium security has armed guards to protect the Pope even at the Wurlitzer organ just to make sure no one will try to play 'Wild THing' or even worse 'Losing my religion'.

Subject: RE: BS: Pope's visit to DC/US
From: Riginslinger
Date: 16 Apr 08 - 08:07 PM

"...while they were vetting all the possible candidates to be the powerfullly influential leader of one of the most ubiquitous religions in the western world: wasn't it possible to find ONE who didn't start out as a Nazi..."


                This from Wikipedia




Following his fourteenth birthday in 1941, Ratzinger was enrolled in the Hitler Youth — membership being legally required after December 1939[5] (though 10-20% did disobey the rule)[6] — but was an unenthusiastic member and refused to attend meetings.[7] His father was a bitter enemy of Nazism, believing it conflicted with the Catholic faith.[citation needed] In 1941, one of Ratzinger's cousins, a 14-year-old boy with Down syndrome, was killed by the Nazi regime in its campaign of eugenics.[8] In 1943 while still in seminary, he was drafted at age 16 into the German anti-aircraft corps. Ratzinger then trained in the German infantry, but a subsequent illness precluded him from the usual rigours of military duty. As the Allied front drew closer to his post in 1945, he deserted back to his family's home in Traunstein after his unit had ceased to exist, just as American troops established their headquarters in the Ratzinger household. As a German soldier, he was put in a POW camp but was released a few months later at the end of the War in summer 1945. He reentered the seminary, along with his brother Georg, in November of that year.

Subject: RE: BS: Pope's visit to DC/US
From: John on the Sunset Coast
Date: 16 Apr 08 - 08:27 PM

Small Town Jewish Girl-
If Saul, a persecutor of Jewish followers of Christ, could do a 180 degree becoming Paul, the creator of Christianity, then I suppose a repentant, half-hearted Nazi can become the leader of that religion. It is not how one starts the journey that counts, but how one arrives at the destination.
John(big city Jewish Boy)otSC

Subject: RE: BS: Pope's visit to DC/US
From: Rapparee
Date: 16 Apr 08 - 08:53 PM

I don't care what he was, I care what he became. And I have some problems with that, but not (at the moment) very big ones. I would like him to slap the shit out of GWB for claiming to be part of the last Pope's "Culture of Life."

Subject: RE: BS: Pope's visit to DC/US
From: Peace
Date: 16 Apr 08 - 09:25 PM

'I would like him to slap the shit out of GWB for claiming to be part of the last Pope's "Culture of Life."'

I'd like him to slap the shit out of Bush just because. But the Pope's an old man and that is lots of shit to slap out if you catch my drift.

Subject: RE: BS: Pope's visit to DC/US
From: Ernest
Date: 17 Apr 08 - 02:01 AM

Slapping the shit out of someone doesn`t sound very peaceful to me, Peace.

Subject: RE: BS: Pope's visit to DC/US
From: Peace
Date: 17 Apr 08 - 02:08 AM

I simply see the importance of being, Ernest. Have a nice day.

Subject: RE: BS: Pope's visit to DC/US
From: Ernest
Date: 17 Apr 08 - 02:12 AM

Same to you, Peace!

Subject: RE: BS: Pope's visit to DC/US
From: Barry Finn
Date: 17 Apr 08 - 02:45 AM

I was raised cat-a-tone-ick an' if the Pope isn't gonna slap the shit of Bush maybe hell slap the shit out of his Bishops then Bush should slap the shit out of him & the Pope can then apologize to all the victims of clear-gic abuse while & tell the public what he really thinks of Bush's crusades in the Mid East. Both useless as far as I'm concerned. Pope should also say something in defense of Tibet & the Dalai Lama, don't they claim a kindship/friendship? This is his big chance to make a couple of statements on where & when (timing in these things is always important) he stands. It would also go a long way on Bush's seat (after having his ass slapped) for the OH-limp-sick Opening.

Barry

Subject: RE: BS: Pope's visit to DC/US
From: bankley
Date: 17 Apr 08 - 08:48 AM

but I love the cape.... now I know where Elvis and James Brown got their wardrobe ideas...... "This is a man's world...mama"

Subject: RE: BS: Pope's visit to DC/US
From: GUEST,lox
Date: 17 Apr 08 - 01:24 PM

Most Germans of a certain age can probably safely be said to have been Nazi's at some point, in that they may have had no choice but to join either the German army, the SS or the Hitler youth.

So are we going to say that all germans above a certain age should be treated as pariahs and/or abominations to the morality of the western idea of human rights?

And what about their kids?

Are they the offspring of Nazis?

It's a bit like saying that all Jews are jesus haters and misers and are conspiring to rule the world from a secret headquarters.

GUESTsmalltownjewishgal - I think your point is deeply offensive in that it makes a sweeping and insensetive generalization about German people andd implies some kind of moral high ground on your part.

The head of the catholic church owes nothing to anybody and is certainly not subject to the judgement of some jumped up British/American chick who thinks that her mothers family background gives her some kind of innate moral authority and the right to expect the behavioural compliance of a member of a religion she does not believe in.

Subject: RE: BS: Pope's visit to DC/US
From: GUEST,Bob Ryszkiewicz
Date: 17 Apr 08 - 01:26 PM

As I ponder the wisdom of "Be in the world, but not of the world" my thoughts reflect on events such as this, and the recent booing of President Bush, not so long ago. Our ancestors understood the fundamental need for order and propriety, dignity, respect. And so institutions, governments, and laws were put in place.

For many, the Pope is a connection, or at least a representation of a connection to that which is of the highest order in the universe. Are we to belittle that? Trash that? Are we not then merely demoralizing ourselves? While we might not agree on the policies, and wonder at the improprieties that have taken place within the Church, it affords us an opportunity to at least be in contact, in a small way, with that which represents good.

I used to wonder at the Religions of the world. The prayer that took place at regular intervals throughout the day. Curious that. But then, you need only read a newspaper, watch T.V., or consider some of the dialogue that takes place on Mudcat, YouTube, and other forums on the Internet, and you begin to realize the necessity of such practices.

Your world, what is it like? Is it dominated by fear? The "He's got more than me, so I have to..." mentality. Are we to be dominated by the gun? The thief? The unscrupulous?

For me, I turn my thoughts to the message, "All things good, all things beautiful, think on these things." They never did say though, how much work that would be...

For the last 18 years or so before my mother, Bless her heart, passed on, she would always remind me, especially at Easter, "Bobby. You know Pope John Paul II is our cousin...Not close, 2nd cousin. But we are related." And I would joke, "Aw Ma, how can that be? He never even came over to the house when he was in Montreal." LOL
So, this went on for most of my life. Then she was gone...

And so I watched Jean Paul II get shot, then forgiving his assailant, hearing his confession...Then, watching him grow old and feeble, standing on that balcony, still Blessing the faithful...
Then his funeral, with the "M" on the coffin, for "Mary" to whom he was devoted...
I don't think you can be human and watch that without respect and admiration...

And now, a new Pope has taken his place. May he be guided by the Great Spirit that guides us all...

Peace & Blessings
bob

http://news.yahoo.com/nphotos/Pope-Benedict-visits-US/ss/events/wl/033002pope/s:/ap/20080417/ap_on_re_us/pope_us;_ylt=AvFkf87wHY

Subject: RE: BS: Pope's visit to DC/US
From: Beer
Date: 17 Apr 08 - 03:01 PM

Thanks Bob for that. You have spoken well and I hope once again that this thread doesn't go in the direction ignorance. He is here to speak to all mankind and not of one religion. True he represents the Catholic Church who has sinned greatly, but who hasn't. As I said earlier, I am not a practicing Catholic but I will not speak ill of person who speaks of compassion to his fellow man. I respect the man as I also respect the Deli Lama.

Subject: RE: BS: Pope's visit to DC/US
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 17 Apr 08 - 03:23 PM

"For many, the Pope is a connection, or at least a representation of a connection to that which is of the highest order in the universe. Are we to belittle that? Trash that?"

Why not? If there is truly the "highest order", should it be above scrutiny? If we cannot poke a few holes, than we have created a sacred cow and not a true religion.

The pope is a man, not a deity. The Dali Lama (I've never been to his deli) is also just a man. They do good work, as do others. They are not above any of us.

" Are we not then merely demoralizing ourselves? "

Not at all. Blind faith and failure to question results in the ills of the world.

Subject: RE: BS: Pope's visit to DC/US
From: GUEST,Bob Ryszkiewicz
Date: 17 Apr 08 - 03:30 PM

Thanks Beer. I had a Japanese Philosophy Professor while in College. I asked him what his Religion was, and he said, "I'm a Humanist".

In 1954, a hurricane had damaged the steeple of our Church. There was a fund appeal to repair it, and the request was a 50 cent donation. They wanted to put up an elegant structure with gold leaf and such, and I asked my father why so much money was being asked for, when I knew people in the town were hungry, and had little food...

We all went to Sunday School. I think it was for what we call, a "First Communion". You had to study, etc. Anyway, at one class, one of the teachers told us that we shouldn't go into the other Church up the street. It was a Synagogue. I remember when I was told that, I had the feeling something bad was going on in there. So, I needed to check it out for myself. One day, I went over there and peeked through the door, and all I saw were some people with round caps on, praying. "Nothing bad going on in here," I said to myself. They seem to be just like us...

So when I think of Religions, it's sorta like "different teams" same game...

bob

Subject: RE: BS: Pope's visit to DC/US
From: GUEST,Bob Ryszkiewicz
Date: 17 Apr 08 - 07:54 PM

Hi Ron: Somehow I missed your post and was responding to Beer. Anyway, I agree that Popes and Presidents should not be above scrutiny. I just believe the OFFICE of the Pope and the President should be respected. Otherwise without rules, chaos ensues. The inference was referring to the Force/God/ Great Spirit that created the universe and man. I don't know about you, but I've always wondered what it was all about. World gets created, Man shows up, eons of the cycle of birth and death, and for what? Surely that force could not be so petty to have done all of that for his/her/it's own amusement?

Or are we merely animals, a step up from vegetation with a conscience? No "God"...

My personal experiences have led me to the belief that there is SOME THING. It is in me and outside of me, and is connected to all living things. It protects me in troubled times. It has rescued me when there has been NO CHANCE. It has always provided for me in the darkest times, and for this I am grateful...I refer to it as The Great Spirit. My Guardian Angel. My Higher Self. God. I talk to it throughout the day, and respect it. I remember all the great gifts it has so generously given me. And I have Faith that it will never leave me.
The road has just been too long to deny it...

There was a story a few years back of a serial killer who lay in wait for his next victim in a park. The young girl who he was about to attack was a woman of faith who prayed each day. As the police captured him, they asked why he hesitated with this one person, while he had murdered so many, so quickly. He told them "It was the two big guys she had walking with her." "What big guys?", the Cops replied. "She was alone..."
Do Angels exist? For me, yes they do. Was Jesus Christ the Son of God? For me, yes He was...
I prefer to think of it as "quiet" Faith...
bob

Subject: RE: BS: Pope's visit to DC/US
From: Riginslinger
Date: 17 Apr 08 - 07:57 PM

Tom Tancredo has figured out that the Pope is encouraging Americans to accept illegal immigrants for the purpose of growing the numbers of Catholic faithful in America.

Subject: RE: BS: Pope's visit to DC/US
From: Peace
Date: 17 Apr 08 - 08:03 PM

Did he do that all by himself?

Subject: RE: BS: Pope's visit to DC/US
From: GUEST,Bob Ryszkiewicz
Date: 17 Apr 08 - 08:28 PM

Seven Spanish Angels...
http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=63A__INJecI

Subject: RE: BS: Pope's visit to DC/US
From: Barry Finn
Date: 17 Apr 08 - 09:21 PM

I have respect for an office only if the person in that office has earned that respect, otherwise he difes the office & should disposed of.

Barry

Subject: RE: BS: Pope's visit to DC/US
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 17 Apr 08 - 09:38 PM

Bob, you are entitled to your beliefs and I respect that. However, you need to respect those of us that have other beliefs and feel indigent at the individuals who hold such lofty offices and turn it into a farce. As you probably know, a church is not defined by a building or a person - it is the values that the members hold. I applaud the pope and the president for trying to improve the world - but when they do that by abusing the rights of others it is wrong and they need to be brought down to reality.

Your eloquent writings about your belief in a god have nothing to do with the man that is on tour in our country this week.   I'm glad you see him a a symbol - the rest of us see him as a symbol as well - a symbol that there is plenty of change still needed in order for this world to survive.

Subject: RE: BS: Pope's visit to DC/US
From: GUEST,Bob Ryszkiewicz
Date: 17 Apr 08 - 10:18 PM

Friends: I believe that Mr. Bush should go. Maybe he tried the best he could with what he had. He might even be a decent man. A good President - NOT. Sadly, his efforts have had a literal life & death impact.

With the Pope, there are a few things that I would change. A more realistic evaluation of life in the 21st Century. Views on the rights of gays and lesbians, abortion, etc. All of these things should be addressed in a more positive, open way...

For so many people who have turned away from "The Church", they just don't see policies that are in line with reality. Through dialogue, there must be a common ground, acceptable to all.

In the past two years, I've attended a Prayer Group(Baptists) who are fine people, who prayed for me during some turbulent times. When I offered my views on Chinese and East Indian people, and alternative Religion, eg.Buddhism, Muslim, Hindu beliefs, the intellectual door closed. I had to leave as I was sure Jesus would have found a place in his heart for all people. These people stuck to their dogma. And what do you say to 2 billion+ people who just don't see things the way you do?

Let us hope that we can all live together, and somehow work things out...
bob

Subject: RE: BS: Pope's visit to DC/US
From: Peace
Date: 17 Apr 08 - 10:20 PM

I have known Bob R for decades. He is like this in real life, too. It's one of the things I love about him.

Subject: RE: BS: Pope's visit to DC/US
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 17 Apr 08 - 10:25 PM

"And what do you say to 2 billion+ people who just don't see things the way you do?"

How about "have a nice day".   There is nothing that you are expected to say to people who don't see things the way you do - it isn't your place in the world to change the way others think. The only way to make change is to live your life according to the morals you believe in and hope others will treat you the way you treat them. You can't ask for anything more from people, or a from an organization like "the church."

Subject: RE: BS: Pope's visit to DC/US
From: GUEST,Bob Ryszkiewicz
Date: 17 Apr 08 - 10:38 PM

Time for another song...
http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=CRyKg5xMaXA

Subject: RE: BS: Pope's visit to DC/US
From: Amergin
Date: 18 Apr 08 - 01:28 AM

He was just indoctrinating the American chapter of the Nazi Party.

Subject: RE: BS: Pope's visit to DC/US
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 18 Apr 08 - 05:36 AM

can I do the cabaret?

Subject: RE: BS: Pope's visit to DC/US
From: Donuel
Date: 18 Apr 08 - 08:40 AM

Someone beat you to it Bruce. I contend that the pretzle incident was a drunken brawl.

The POpe promised to better with the church child rape thing.

HE WILL NOT fire Bishops who enabled the practice and will not encourage law enforcment to treat the rapists equally under the law.

The Pope has seen $2 billion dollars paid out to the victims of sex abuse. THats that. Some money and a promise.

There is no old testament punishment forthcoming


or is there?

Subject: RE: BS: Pope's visit to DC/US
From: Riginslinger
Date: 18 Apr 08 - 01:45 PM

"Did he do that all by himself?"


                It's unclear!

Subject: RE: BS: Pope's visit to DC/US
From: Peace
Date: 18 Apr 08 - 02:09 PM

The anti-Catholic bias is showing on this thread. Would it be possible to concentrate on the Anglicans for a while?

Subject: RE: BS: Pope's visit to DC/US
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 18 Apr 08 - 02:16 PM

Peace, I am a non-practicing Catholic and I respect the faith that I was brought up in. I learned a lot of lessons that I carry to this day, and I'm proud of it. It is not a bias when we are reacting to issues that are based in reality. I don't think the Pope is visiting the Anglicans this week.

Subject: RE: BS: Pope's visit to DC/US
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 18 Apr 08 - 03:36 PM

Yeh protestants, always bloody whining about something......

what have they got to whine about...the priests do sex, they don't have to confess to anything, none of this genuflecting.

If you ask me, they got it too easy. And they've got too much to say for themselves.

Subject: RE: BS: Pope's visit to DC/US
From: Peace
Date: 18 Apr 08 - 05:11 PM

"Peace, I am a non-practicing Catholic and I respect the faith that I was brought up in. I learned a lot of lessons that I carry to this day, and I'm proud of it. It is not a bias when we are reacting to issues that are based in reality. I don't think the Pope is visiting the Anglicans this week."

Maybe so. However, the Anglicans aere equally guilty and they don't get mentioned. FYI, I was an Anglican and am now a non-practising Catholic. I will say agin: imo, there is an anti-Catholic bias showing on this thread.

Subject: RE: BS: Pope's visit to DC/US
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 18 Apr 08 - 05:24 PM

The Anglicans weren't mentioned by me in this thread because they are relevant to the topic. I disagree about the anti-Catholic bias.

Subject: RE: BS: Pope's visit to DC/US
From: Peace
Date: 18 Apr 08 - 06:49 PM

OK.

Subject: RE: BS: Pope's visit to DC/US
From: Riginslinger
Date: 18 Apr 08 - 06:52 PM

How about anti-religious bias, is that okay?

Subject: RE: BS: Pope's visit to DC/US
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 18 Apr 08 - 07:43 PM

No, because it is not anti-religious bias. How about bias against individuals who misuse their position?

I don't think anyone in this thread has knocked the belief in god and the moral guidings that is true relgion. The knocks have come against individuals who do not live up to the office.

Subject: RE: BS: Pope's visit to DC/US
From: GUEST,Bob Ryszkiewicz
Date: 18 Apr 08 - 09:58 PM

Pope Benedict VXI visits Synagogue in N.Y.C.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4SEHt3ye7A

Subject: RE: BS: Pope's visit to DC/US
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 18 Apr 08 - 10:40 PM

I wonder if this visit will inspire another great work of art like Rosemary's baby.



I love Mia Farrow and John Casavettes in that film.