BS: Home Education UK

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: Emma B
Date: 03 Oct 09 - 10:18 AM

My own belief Lizzie (avoiding judgementally loaded words like 'correct') is based on the considerable evidence that mobile phones, particularly those with cameras, have been used extensively in bullying and that the head teacher - presumably in consultation with the school governors - should have the authority to ban mobile phones during school time if he/she believes it could also prevent or diminish other specific problems such as theft etc

Furthermore my personal view is that is also incumbent upon parents to familiarize themselves with the rules of their child's school as parents and teachers need to work together to promote the safety of the pupils.

As you have pointed out, if you believe schools should have no rules and exist in some state of happy anarchy then the option of home teaching is available to you.
Again, entirely personally, I also believe that the absence or non-recognition of order is not a good foundation for working life

I have answered your question; may I in return ask if you believe children should be allowed to bring anything they want into their school?

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: Tug the Cox
Date: 03 Oct 09 - 10:50 AM

The question here is the severity of the status. At first there was an attempt to ban phones all together. being a rural area, where kids attending post school activities etc need to be able to contact their parents, phones were allowed to be carried, but not to be used in school time.
    Part of the reason for this was not the bullying issue. bad as this was, it can be done at any time. More it was an attempt to stop the kids communicating en masse. The school walkout which marked the invasion of Iraq, for instance, was organised spontaneously with the aid of texting.
   I fully agree with not using phones in lessons, perhaps even in the playground if the reasons are sound. Should a child's education be put at risk if they use one, however. Surely its a matter of scale, and how easily unthinking authoritarianism topples into bizarre and ludicrous situations.Compliance to rules should not be about blind obedience ( are you aware of thhe Milgram experiments on obedience?) but coming to accept the validity of just rules, that the young person should gradually become more involved in framing. Top down blind obedience is simply uneducational as it prevents the growth of responsibility.

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: Tug the Cox
Date: 03 Oct 09 - 10:52 AM

in the above, for status read 'sanction'. God knows what happened.

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: Emma B
Date: 03 Oct 09 - 11:31 AM

As I studied social psychology at univerity I am obviously aware of Stanley Milgram's work which demonstrated, as he said

"Ordinary people, simply doing their jobs, and without any particular hostility on their part, can become agents in a terrible destructive process.
Moreover, even when the destructive effects of their work become patently clear, and they are asked to carry out actions incompatible with fundamental standards of morality"

Not sure a rule about confiscating a banned mobile phone and that failure to honour the rule was met by a request to surrender it quite comes under something that is "incompatible with fundamental standards of morality"

What is sad is that the apparent escalation of something as simple as an understood rule for all pupils should result in a conflict between home and school that could result in the pupils exclusion.

As one head teacher has commented conflict with parents happens

'Schools have to manage thousands of cases ..., of bullying, allegations against teachers, refusals to attend detentions, claims of injustice and grievances, sometimes tactical, felt by children whose parents feel the best way to support their child is to attack their school.'

I'm sure the school would prefer to resolve this kind of situation without draconian measures but also cannot afford, if there is to be any discipline, to have a pupil deliberately flout a rule either.

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: Tug the Cox
Date: 03 Oct 09 - 12:27 PM

The everyday morality is that as it wasn't her phone, she would not surrender it. She expected and would accept a sanction against herself, but considered the confiscation of an innocent party's phone to be unreasonable. She showed considerable courage in standing up for her beliefs, and as i have said elsewhere, is usually a highly regarded model pupil. I am confident that had she been one of Milgram's subjects she would have refused to obey him as well.

"if there is to be any discipline"

    Of course there must be discipine, but let it vcentre on responsibility, not obedience. Has your reading extended to Alfie Kohn? If not give him a try.


Beyond Discipline
From Compliance to Community

(Alexandria, VA: Association for Supervision and Curriculum Development, 1996/2006)

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 03 Oct 09 - 01:03 PM

How in the name of God did we manage to exist before the invention of the mobile phone? I'm astonished that I ever managed to struggle through my schooling without mobile phones. How could we possibly conduct our lives without being able to contact our friends and family - sometimes for as much as two or three WHOLE HOURS??!!

It beggars belief - but we did it!

The world's going (gone?) absolutely f***ing mad.

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: CarolC
Date: 03 Oct 09 - 01:11 PM

If, as has been suggested above, inertia prevents the schools from improving their methods of teaching students with learning disabilities, home schooling must remain an option. The home schooling environment is not subject to such limitations.

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: CarolC
Date: 03 Oct 09 - 01:21 PM

And this, from the Dyslexia Victoria Online page, proves that the situation in the US schools is far from being sufficiently improved...

"But why is it taking so long for the "powers that be" to implement the necessary changes, why aren't teachers in North America being taught about Dyslexia? I know that the ignorance that has surrounded Dyslexia 25 years ago is still with us now. We have done seven presentations to Federal and Provincial "Service Providers" and Pro-D Days for teachers in the last three months and at every single one of them we get the same comments. The Teachers and Service Providers all need more information about Dyslexia because they haven't gotten the training they need to understand or accommodate it."

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: CarolC
Date: 03 Oct 09 - 01:31 PM

Whether or not he was dyslexic, Einstein was a classic case of someone with learning disabilities.

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: artbrooks
Date: 03 Oct 09 - 01:36 PM

Carol, while your comment about "the situation in the US schools (being) far from sufficiently improved" may be entirely true, I', not sure if a citation from a Canadian website about the situation in Canada validates it.

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: Jack Campin
Date: 03 Oct 09 - 03:06 PM

Whether or not he was dyslexic, Einstein was a classic case of someone with learning disabilities.

Like what? Started learning violin at 6, calculus at 12, graduated from high school at 17 and got a teaching diploma at 21. Seems to have failed exactly one formal examination in his entire life, at 16. Didn't make much impression on anybody until his 20s, but that's hardly grounds for diagnosing a brain syndrome.

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: Folkiedave
Date: 03 Oct 09 - 03:46 PM

If, as has been suggested above, inertia prevents the schools from improving their methods of teaching students with learning disabilities, home schooling must remain an option. The home schooling environment is not subject to such limitations.

I have never suggested inertia is a reason, mostly we don't put enough money into it. In addition there is a lot of parental opposition to change in schools as I have pointed out.

That is why (time after time on this thread) I have agreed with home education as an option. I have even suggested a good case can be made for subsidising it. But it has to be education, it has to be structured (in whatever you way the home educator thinks might be best or appropriate) and it most certainly has to be measureable in some way or other.

If you don't think education should be structured or measureable, and it is clear that some people don't, then why call it "education"? Home or otherwise?

"But why is it taking so long for the "powers that be" to implement the necessary changes, why aren't teachers in North America being taught about Dyslexia? I know that the ignorance that has surrounded Dyslexia 25 years ago is still with us now. We have done seven presentations to Federal and Provincial "Service Providers" and Pro-D Days for teachers in the last three months and at every single one of them we get the same comments. The Teachers and Service Providers all need more information about Dyslexia because they haven't gotten the training they need to understand or accommodate it."

I did put an answer to this earlier. My answer was related to the UK, though I suspect it applies to most countries.

Try here:

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: Folkiedave - PM
Date: 03 Oct 09 - 07:34 AM

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: Smokey.
Date: 03 Oct 09 - 04:11 PM

So Einstein had learning disabilities, did he?

That's one of the daftest statements I've ever heard.. He had a very high IQ though, and it's true to say that the education system effectively discriminates against that more than it does against the genuinely disabled nowadays.

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: Folkiedave
Date: 03 Oct 09 - 04:28 PM

and it's true to say that the education system effectively discriminates against that more than it does against the genuinely disabled nowadays.

And is it true to say that this opinion is based on detailed scientific research or just a guess?

If it is more than a guess, can you point at the evidence?

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: CarolC
Date: 03 Oct 09 - 05:05 PM

The article says "schools in North America" and not just specifically Canadian schools. If they had meant just Canadian Schools, they would have said Canadian schools. My focus is on schools in the US (which are included in the category of North America) because that is what I am most familiar with.

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 03 Oct 09 - 05:10 PM

Emma, if the 'penalty' for having a mobile phone had been death, would you still agree to the 'sentence' being carried out, purely because 'we have to be seen to be obeying the rules'??????

Yeesh!

We are in Orwell's 1984 here, as can be demonstrated by all of those who demand the home educators must not be free to do as THEY want, but tied in to the rules of the very place that has almost destroyed their children...

"But it has to be education, it has to be structured (in whatever you way the home educator thinks might be best or appropriate) and it most certainly has to be measureable in some way or other.

Really? WHY?

Actually, it is measurable. It is measurable in my daughter's Myspace page, Dave, if you'd care to take a look way back in this thread....It's there in the photos, not of stupid face slugging back beer on drunken nights, but of children being free to be who they are, doing what they want, not through peer pressure...free to walk the fields, visit ancient buildings, play, laugh, have fun.

You have all become so up your own arses with rules and regulations, charts, tick boxes, measuring sticks, examinations...that you have all forgotten your basic product.

School SHOULD be turning out the next generation, a generation of happy, kind, compassionate young people, who know how to laugh, how to heal, how to take care of their planet and each other. They should be filled with an absolute LOVE of learning, for the rest of their lives through.

Instead, so many of them are filled with alcohol, drugs, depression and debts.

I'll take my tutoring, thanks Dave, over yours...because my kids have had a special time in their young lives, freed of factory farm pressures poured down upon them by Slave Drivers, who would rather stop a child from going to their school than dare to see common sense.

After all, school's about making a statement, innit..and that statement is 'WE are in charge!"

'their' school? If children thought school was theirs, they'd have a whole different outlook. School isn't. It belongs to the teachers and the politicians.

"If you don't think education should be structured or measureable, and it is clear that some people don't, then why call it "education"? Home or otherwise?"

Education as it has now become, Sucks.

Learning is there for life...and we learn every single day of our lives.

This week school started injecting it's 14 year old girls with the Cervical Cancer jab...en masse...and my heart died a little bit more, not only because they have no real idea what this jab will do, its side-effects on children so young, but because cervial cancer is so on the increase in youngsters, because they are having sex when their bodies aren't ready for it, let alone their minds...

But hey, do NOT get me started on the paedeophilic sex education that so many youngsters are receiving these days, with their parents knowing nothing about it....Even teachers feel uneasy...and if I told children what teachers are telling them, I'd probably be arrested, but...no matter, line the little girls up and stick a needle in them, give them the cervical cancer jab and we'll worry about the side-effects later....

'We know it works, and it's safe, 'cos the medical companies have assured us it is!'

Yeah, right...............

And another Corporate company smacks it's lips in glee from the profit they've made out of our children...just like the Corporate Examination System is doing....

Chilling, huh?


(Then Lizzie sat back and watched them all cry out in unison that none of this was true, that school was the best thing on the planet for all children...and that home educators should be trussed up with rules, same as the rest of 'em!.

...and she wept....for the children.

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: SINSULL
Date: 03 Oct 09 - 05:13 PM

30 years ago...

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: CarolC
Date: 03 Oct 09 - 05:27 PM

Einstein fits the classic description of Gifted/Learning Disabled. This quote from his sister helps explain it...

"(Albert) never was much good at the 'easy' part of mathematics. To shine, he had to move on to the 'hard' part.' In adult life his mathematical intuition was recognised as extraordinary and he could handle deftly the most difficult of tensor calculus, but it appears that arithmetic calculation continued to be an area of comparative weakness." ~ Maja Einstein"

As an adult he had difficulty keeping track of everyday kinds of information and his wife had to do most of that for him.

Gifted LD people often don't do well with the stuff that most people find the easiest to do, while excelling at things that most other people would find quite difficult, if not impossible.

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: CarolC
Date: 03 Oct 09 - 05:29 PM

Nothing happened 30 years ago. 30 years ago, I was out of school and working in a veterniarian's office.

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: Emma B
Date: 03 Oct 09 - 05:29 PM

"Emma, if the 'penalty' for having a mobile phone had been death, would you still agree to the 'sentence' being carried out, purely because 'we have to be seen to be obeying the rules'??????"

Another question Lizzie when you didn't have the courtesy to answer mine? -

'I have answered your question; may I in return ask if you believe children should be allowed to bring anything they want into their school?'

- actually I have always opposed capital punishment - recent experience on the jury of a murder trial has convinced me I was justified in this view

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: Smokey.
Date: 03 Oct 09 - 05:31 PM

And is it true to say that this opinion is based on detailed scientific research or just a guess?

If it is more than a guess, can you point at the evidence?

I'm afraid I can't be arsed, FolkieDave. It was just an observation, not a judgement, and I certainly didn't say it to start an argument.

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: SINSULL
Date: 03 Oct 09 - 05:35 PM

Tug,
Were you aware of the rule about cell phones? I take it your daughter does not take one to school. She knew she was breaking a ruls and she knew the consequences.
Have you discussed her part in this debacle? It could have easily been avoided. Was the phone call critical? Calling her Mom to say she was ill?

How do you think the school should have handled this?
Schools have rules. Some are ridiculous, I agree. Who decides what rules to break and who gets punished? If the school makes an exception for your daughter, what about he next child who uses a cell phone in school?

Just trying to look at the whole picture.
Mary

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 03 Oct 09 - 05:42 PM

'I have answered your question; may I in return ask if you believe children should be allowed to bring anything they want into their school?'


I answered yours....if school was 'theirs' they would have a whole different attitude to it. The fear would disappear, along with the knives..and a feeling of relaxation would eventually replace the terrible tension and stress our children are constantly under in this institution.

They'd bring many things into 'their' school....phones, music, laptops, roller blades, ipods, cameras, books......

....most of all Emma, they'd bring Laughter..because they would finally be free of the Tyranny of Education that now rules so many schools within the Western World..

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: Folkiedave
Date: 03 Oct 09 - 05:43 PM

I'm afraid I can't be arsed, FolkieDave

Or to put in other way - although you said it was true - it wasn't.

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: Emma B
Date: 03 Oct 09 - 05:44 PM

so Lizzie until your 'golden age' it's ok to bring in knives for example?

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: CarolC
Date: 03 Oct 09 - 05:47 PM

I would consider a lack of ability to move ahead with needed changes because of parental pressure and lack of money (etc) a kind of inertia (hence my use of the word), but I don't need to quibble about semantics. My point is that as long as the schools are unable to deliver the quality of services that learning disabled students need, home schooling will be a very important option.

I don't really agree that a person can't be educated without an imposed structure. I think that it's very possible for people to learn what they need to learn in the absence of structure. Especially if they have never been turned off to learning by bad experiences in structured environments. People who haven't been ruined by schools understand that there are things they need to learn in order to do the things they want. And such children tend to want to do a lot.

I used some structure when I was home schooling my son, but he had already gone through five years of public schools in the US and I didn't see changing things to being totally non-structured as being the best thing for him. But I definitely wouldn't rule it out if I was home schooling a child right from the start. The most important thing is not structure, but opportunity. Put the opportunities for learning in reach of the child, and the child will naturally take advantage of them.

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 03 Oct 09 - 06:00 PM

"so Lizzie until your 'golden age' it's ok to bring in knives for example?"


You don't get it, do you?

They're bringing in knives because they don't feel safe. They don't feel safe because they're under way too much pressure and some are so angry that they want to kill not only their teachers, but their fellow pupils as well....

This is because school is NOT theirs! It is not a welcoming place, one that holds out its arms to children and young people, making them feel welcome, appreciated...It's one that wants to lop off their heads if they dare to bring in a mobile phone, then kick them out of the place for good!

School SUCKS!
Education, as it now is, SUCKS!

And if I were a child, particularly at secondary school, I'd be terrified out of my head, and ragingly angry at every bloody adult who sent me there, kept me there and forced me to learn 'stuff' I had absolutely no interest in, whilst punishing me if I didn't do it, or if I dared to use a phone!

Is it normal that kids are doing this 'Slap Happy' stuff, or whatever it's called? No, it's f*cking crazy!

But NO-ONE is asking WHY they're doing it, are they? NO ONE is looking at the bigger picture...because they're all hellbent on making the kids take 10 GCSEs so they can get to No 1 on The League Tables and keep their jobs!   

Quadruple Yeesh!

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: Emma B
Date: 03 Oct 09 - 06:03 PM

so do you think a school should allow pupils to bring in whatever they want now?

Don't worry I won't ask again - I don't really expect a direct answer

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 03 Oct 09 - 06:10 PM

Can they bring in knives? No.

Can they bring in phones? Yes.

Why? Because many of them are so frightened, stressed, worried about things that keeping in contact with their Mum or Dad, or best friend, who may be in another school, brings them comfort. Not to be used in lessons, but why not in break times? We live in a mobile phone age...

I hate them, personally.....nowt as wonderful as silence at times...


The sooner children feel that school is 'theirs' too, shared with teachers, older pupils, adults, learning all life through...the better, for all.

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: Emma B
Date: 03 Oct 09 - 06:14 PM

so you DO accept some rules Lizzie - thanks that's all I wanted to know.

Rant on!

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: SINSULL
Date: 03 Oct 09 - 06:16 PM

It really is pointless, Emma. Every question, every different opinion results in tirades, obscenities and name calling.
Frightening to think that this is the "Ideal" taught in home schooling at least in the few cases here.

I repeat my original observation: in all of the home schooled children I have known, the only negative I have seen is a lack of social skills. All were well adjusted, well educated children.

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: SINSULL
Date: 03 Oct 09 - 06:17 PM

Tug,
What does your daughter think should be done about the cell phone incident? She is the one most affected by it.
Mary

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 03 Oct 09 - 06:43 PM

Lack of social skills?

Oh, come ON, Mary! I've seen more teachers who can't be kind or nice to their pupils than I have the other way round..

My kids will talk to anyone, of any age or background, in a kind, polite and considerate manner.

I have had daft people saying "OH, but HOW do you socialise them?" whilst backing away from us as if we have the Plague...not letting their kids come round for tea in case Little Johnny should get the Home Education bug...

All the home ed children I've met are all fine at social skills.
I'm sure some aren't though, just as I'm sure some IN school aren't either.

Hust cos you go to school doesn't mean you're good at socialising you know.

And nope, I don't answer Emma's questions in the way she demands...'cos I don't do demands.

Of course kids shouldn't take knives to school. Home Ed kids don't ever have to consider that option though, as they don't need to.

Funny though, how Emma can't bring herself to comment on most of the questions I raise, such as why no-one is caring, asking questions etc...or how much better schools would be if all generations mingled and youngsters thought of school as 'theirs'...

Gawd!

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: Smokey.
Date: 03 Oct 09 - 06:46 PM

"I'm afraid I can't be arsed, FolkieDave

Or to put in other way - although you said it was true - it wasn't. "


Dave - I think it is, and you presumably think not. I can live with that.

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: Emma B
Date: 03 Oct 09 - 06:47 PM

The HPV vaccination programme

In the UK, girls in year 8 at school (aged 12 to 13) are OFFERED the HPV vaccine

A letter about the vaccine and a CONSENT FORM is sent to the parents of the girl before she has the vaccine.
It is up to her whether she has the vaccine.

according to Cancer Research UK
'This research means that if girls take up the vaccination the programme will prevent at least 7 out of 10 cancers of the cervix and possibly even more in the future'

The vaccine is being offered to girls from the age of 12 because they are unlikely to be sexually active and to have caught HPV.
The research so far has shown that the vaccine works best at preventing HPV infection in younger women who are not yet sexually active.


"It really is pointless, Emma."

So why do I bother?

Well, like Lizzie, I also have a 'passion'
It's A Passion for Truth!

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: SINSULL
Date: 03 Oct 09 - 06:49 PM

Yes Lizzie. They do not interact readily in a group of children.

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: Folkiedave
Date: 03 Oct 09 - 06:52 PM

Dave - I think it is, and you presumably think not. I can live with that.

No Smokey you said it was true, not that you thought it was true.

But I can live with you not knowing the difference so long as you can.

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: Jack Campin
Date: 03 Oct 09 - 07:15 PM

Einstein fits the classic description of Gifted/Learning Disabled. This quote from his sister helps explain it...

"(Albert) never was much good at the 'easy' part of mathematics. To shine, he had to move on to the 'hard' part.' In adult life his mathematical intuition was recognised as extraordinary and he could handle deftly the most difficult of tensor calculus, but it appears that arithmetic calculation continued to be an area of comparative weakness." ~ Maja Einstein"

As an adult he had difficulty keeping track of everyday kinds of information and his wife had to do most of that for him.

And that is conclusively diagnostic for having a congenital brain syndrome?

Has it not occurred to you that presenting garbage science like that simply persuades people that the whole concept of learning disability is about as scientifically based as demoniac possession?

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: Smokey.
Date: 03 Oct 09 - 07:21 PM

No Smokey you said it was true, not that you thought it was true.

But I can live with you not knowing the difference so long as you can.

I know the difference, but we can only say what we think.. If you want to offer anything contrary to what I said, there's nothing to stop you, and I'd be genuinely interested to hear it. If I'm wrong, then allow me to learn something rather than indulging in the pointlessness of pedantic one-upmanship. Only I'm allowed to do that :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: Tug the Cox
Date: 03 Oct 09 - 07:33 PM

Tug,
What does your daughter think should be done about the cell phone incident? She is the one most affected by it.
Mary

Thanks for the thoughtful question.
sadly, the authorities didn't bother to ask her that. She knows the rules, and knowingly broke them...probably an indication that she doesn't see it as very sensible.She has never even had to go to 'time out' the normal procedure when misbehaviour occurs. She feels she has been badly treated by the manner of her treatment, being called rude in a rather rude way, having other irrelevant issues raised, e.g her shirt was out of her trousers at the time! etc.
   I'm sure that she woulld accept some sort of sanction, but would not betray her friend. The price of this (possibly misguided) loyalty,however, is permanent exclusion....this gives her even less reason to see the rules as reasonable.
The staff also know that it is ridiculous, and are probably hoping for a way out, such that they are conniving with her to bring in an old, broken phone so that justice can be seen to be done.
    What do you think she may be learning from all this?

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: Folkiedave
Date: 03 Oct 09 - 07:35 PM

From: Smokey. - PM
Date: 03 Oct 09 - 07:21 PM

Eee........and I thought you could be arsed.

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: Smokey.
Date: 03 Oct 09 - 07:40 PM

Always willing to learn, Dave.

Anyway.. speaking of pedantry, how about distinguishing the difference between 'learning difficulties' and 'teaching difficulties'?

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: Folkiedave
Date: 03 Oct 09 - 07:47 PM

This week school started injecting it's 14 year old girls with the Cervical Cancer jab...en masse...and my heart died a little bit more, not only because they have no real idea what this jab will do, its side-effects on children so young, but because cervial cancer is so on the increase in youngsters, because they are having sex when their bodies aren't ready for it, let alone their minds...

The vaccine is being offered at that age (actually 12/13 year olds) because the girls ARE UNLIKELY TO BE SEXUALLY ACTIVE YET, NOT because they are LIKELY to be having sex - the vaccine will be most effective for girls who are not yet sexually active.

It is NOT because cervical cancer is on the increase in youngsters, it is because having the vaccine before they become sexually active will prevent women developing the disease in ADULTHOOD.

Apart from that everything you wrote was true.

And note, I am not attacking you - but what you write. That's why I quote it in italics.

But take it personally if you feel it helps you.

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: Folkiedave
Date: 03 Oct 09 - 07:48 PM

'learning difficulties' and 'teaching difficulties'?

Too difficult.

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: SINSULL
Date: 03 Oct 09 - 08:04 PM

Permanent exclusion is absurd. Violence, deliberate disruption of a class, possibly theft - these could be grounds for permanent exclusion.

A cell phone call is not, at least in my opinion.

Like it or not, a cell phone is a critical tool in today's world. Lives (teenage lives) have been saved by them.

The fact that the school is participating in a deception to find a way out of the mess is very disturbing. Your daughter is being taught to find ways around the system - much like too many politicians.

I hope you or your wife will accompany her on Monday and make it clear that although the cell phone call was wrong, you stand by her decision not to forfeit property that was not her own. She will learn from this by observing how you and your wife conduct yourselves. Dignified condescension would be my approach but you do what you have to do, Good luck.

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: Smokey.
Date: 03 Oct 09 - 08:07 PM

"'learning difficulties' and 'teaching difficulties'?

Too difficult. "


I think it's an important distinction to recognise which is often overlooked to the detriment of those being taught.

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 03 Oct 09 - 08:28 PM

"It is NOT because cervical cancer is on the increase in youngsters, it is because having the vaccine before they become sexually active will prevent women developing the disease in ADULTHOOD."

Sorry..but one of the reasons that teenage girls are getting cervical cancer (in adulthood, to be pedantic) is because they're having sex with every Tom, Dick and Sebastian when they're young teenagers, in fact, sometimes, before they even reach teenagehood!

Teenage cervical cancer on the increase

Seems to me that the ones who WEREN'T having sex, now will, because they'll be thinking they're protected from getting it now.

Ah well, I guess the liberals will tell me.."Yes, Lizzie, but that's what kids are like these days..."

Pah! We've a nation of kids who've been groomed and I tell you what, the sex education they're getting at school is helping to feed that grooming.

Ho hum...

I in 3 of the Nation's children is being vaccinated....bloody scary!
I expect they'll soon insist that ALL children have it, female ones, that is...and they can give it to them from age 9...


And the beat goes on............

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: Emma B
Date: 03 Oct 09 - 08:45 PM

Lizzie you have disturbed me greatly with some of your wildly inaccurate posts but you have now gone totally OTT

My sister is adopted after her mother died tragically young of cervical cancer!
She did NOT have sex with every Tom Dick or Harry but attitudes like yours might make people believe she did!

'I in 3 of the Nation's children is being vaccinated....bloody scary!

Are you scared that so many of our generation were vaccinated against other killer dieases?
In America some vaccinations are compuslory before a child can be admitted to a public school - but I guess that's simply more fuel for your rants about home schooling being the only 'right' approach

'I expect they'll soon insist that ALL children have it'

What earthly evidence do you have for that?


Well congratulations Lizzie - you have finally suceeded in sickening me so much with impuning the characters of women I have known who have died from this dreadful disease that I'm leaving this thread for the time being.

Have fun!

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: Smokey.
Date: 03 Oct 09 - 09:03 PM

What if they came up with an effective AIDS vaccine Lizzie? Would it be a bad thing to vaccinate children?

I don't thing it's fair to imply cervical cancer is an STD, by the way. It's about as tasteful as a Helen Keller joke, in fact.

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: Ebbie
Date: 04 Oct 09 - 12:06 AM

My daughter home-schooled her three youngsters - with a twist. By the time they were in third grade she ferried them across town three days a week to a charter school where some of the parents were some of the teaching staff. My daughter has a degree in English and she worked under the supervision of a certificated teacher.

Her kids are now in university and one is finishing her last year in public high school. All of them are doing fine.

My niece and her husband have adopted NINE children, after raising two of their own. Each of them has a greater or lesser degree of fetal alcohol affect. All have been home schooled. The first three (unrelated by blood) are now almost 22 and are doing well. One is working on the streets of Tacoma with homeless children in an organization that is trying to make a difference. One has been traveling abroad for the last couple of years but has now returned to his hometown and plans to be married soon. The last one is having a more difficult time- she wants to be a professional singer and has been taking voice lessons. But now she is pregnant. The biggest problem their family has combated is teaching the children that actions have consequences.

The next three kids are two brothers and a sister- they now range in age from 12 to 15. The last three are two sisters and a brother, ranging in age from 8 to 15. The six are still being home schooled.

My niece attended college for a couple of years but does not have a degree. She however is a bright, energetic, clear-eyed, motivated and loving person.

Here in Juneau, there is a musician family whose children have always home schooled. The older daughter has put off going to university for a year so that they can tour the country as a family band at least one more time, but she is taking online college courses in the meantime.

They are traveling in their revamped greyhound bus from Iowa to Florida performing at festivals and in halls wherever they go. They'll be back in November and then leave for another three month tour in January.

If you should see any advertising about them, you would enjoy hearing them. They are multi-talented and multi-instrumental; even the youngest one, at 11, plays both the fiddle and the mando. All of them sing and the harmonies are wonderful.

The parents, by the way, also home schooled their musical education- Paul plays guitar and mandolin, Melissa the fiddle and violin. They play a lot of bluegrass and a lot of 'folky' songs and old tunes.

This is the Alaska String Band, also known as the Zahasky Family Band. They put on just about the best show I've ever seen - in addition to their singing they have a slideshow going on behind them that is very Alaskan with scenes of Alaska wildlife, marine mammals, mountains and glaciers... These are pictures they took themselves or were given them by friends.

All summer the last few years they have played in Juneau on cruiseships and up on the mountain top in a small theater.

Humph. I wasn't going to go on like that- my point is these were all home schooled. Every single one of the kids in all three of the families are social, well adjusted kids.