BS: Home Education UK

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 02 Oct 09 - 03:38 PM

:0)

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: Folkiedave
Date: 02 Oct 09 - 03:49 PM

I see we are now getting to the point where nonsense takes over.

The idea that dyslexia is a gift is simple horlicks. It is a specific learning difficulty. You can call it a disability of you like - I don't and never have. End of.

And Ron Davis, who calls it a gift, also calls it a problem and sets out to cure it. Remarkably he has just the answer to get rid of the "gift". and it is a mere £1500.00. You know, if I knew the answer I'd give it away.

Here is what he says -

Davis Dyslexia Correction® provides tools to overcome problems with reading, writing, and attention focus. These methods enable children and adults to recognize and control the mental processes that cause distorted perceptions of letters and words. Once students can be sure that their perceptions are accurate, they can resolve the underlying cause of their learning difficulties through methods that build upon their creative and imaginative strengths.

Actually - that's precisely what specialist dyslexia teachers do if it is appropriate, though it isn't always.

The only difference is it's £1500.00 less expensive. The problem is that instead of spending the money on such specialist dyslexia teachers (and they are very rare) people prefer not to pay taxes.

It also costs money to train such teachers. The vast majority are practising teachers who study at night and perhaps get one day a week off their normal job to do the training and work experience it entails.

And the idea that someone can tell which musicians are dyslexic by looking at them is also horlicks unless you are a most insensitive person.

How could anyone know for sure? Do someone really go up to them and say "Excuse me but it seems to me that you are dyslexic - do you mind me asking if it is true" or some such nonsense?

And how does anyone then know they have told you the truth? I can think of a number of reasons why they might not want someone to know.

Anyone with this remarkable instinct for people with dyslexia shouild think about selling their services~!! It would save a lot of people a lot of money to have someone standing there watching people perform various tasks and saying "Dyslexic - Not Dyslexic - Not sure" as people did things in front of them.

Anyone who claims this might ponder on how they know someone is dyslexic from a bad speller.

I am still waiting for someone to show me the detailed evidence that shows a connection between dyslexia and creativity.

The Sheffield College where I used to work tries to test every single student for dyslexia and similar specific learning difficulties on entry, first of all with a simple screening test and then later if necessary with a more complex series of tests if needed. Many schools do not have that sort of facility, the college does.

Not infallible I grant you but it does sometimes help with early identification. In fact many specific learning difficulties are picked up at an early age nowadays - well before people get to college. Whether schools can afford to do something about them is a different matter.

(The one-to-one teaching that is often needed with learning difficulties is very expensive. It is why I believe in some cases that home education is an alternative. But I also believe such education needs to be structured and precise. I also feel a good case can be made for subsidising this work).

As far as I am aware there is little difference between the departments of the college as to the proportion of students with any particular difficulty. The particular part of the Sheffield College where I worked is a specialist art, sport and computing college with a wide range of "A" level provision as well, so you would have thought something might have shown up. As far as I know (1988 - 2003 when I worked there) nothing has.

Now if anyone has any evidence to contradict that from somewhere else? I really would love to see it.

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 02 Oct 09 - 03:59 PM

Does someone have such a strong need to feel superior to those who have learning disabilities that they can't cope with the idea that some of them can be better at some things than they are?

Nope. I am no better than anyone. By the same token no-one is better than me and I just do not like random 'facts' thrown in to cloud the issue. Maybe that is my learning difficulty but if so, there is nothing I can do about it.

Nope, it's no red herring.

Lizzie - proof, proof, proof.

DeG

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: Folkiedave
Date: 02 Oct 09 - 04:10 PM

And why my anecdotal mentioning of the fact that it is common for people who have learning disabilities to do well in creative endeavors would hit such a nerve is a bit puzzling to me. Does someone have such a strong need to feel superior to those who have learning disabilities that they can't cope with the idea that some of them can be better at some things than they are? That seems extremely small to me.

Carol it is precisely because it is anecdotal.

I don't know it is common and neither do you.

Some of the art teachers I worked with were astonishingly creative. So were there musical counterparts. As far as I am aware none were dyslexic - but without tests it is sometimes hard to tell.

I worked with some very high level sports people - at least one olympic medal winner was dyslexic, at least two world champions weren't. It doesn't get us anywhere.

I have no such superiority complex, and even now I am happy to learn.

So show me your evidence.

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: Folkiedave
Date: 02 Oct 09 - 04:22 PM

And sorry to go back to an earlier part of this but something Lizzie said about her daughter being "headhunted" puzzled me.

That's a term usually used for high level jobs which need very specific skills and there is a good reason for it.

The reason people only use it in that context because to "headhunt" people is against all good employment practise in terms of equal opprtunities and can be seen to be discriminatory. Personally I am sure the National Trust would not want to be seen to bedoing that.

Of course if it is just local work, in a shop for example then people are generally not too bothered. Nothing wrong with it - but even then there might be other people who could have done the job equally well who might feel aggrieved that someone was "headhunted" for such a position.

Just a thought.

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: SINSULL
Date: 02 Oct 09 - 04:23 PM

Researchers in several different countries claim that 40 - 60% of all prisoners are dyslexic. That's a wonderful gift.

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: CarolC
Date: 02 Oct 09 - 04:43 PM

Well then here is some evidence...

"Unusual Creativity

LD/ADD students are usually much more creative than their classmates. They approach problems in an exploratory manner and express themselves and their ideas in a more open-ended way. From poems to mechanical inventions to business ventures, they tend to keep tinkering with their design long after others consider the creative process complete. The products of their inventive thinking are often so simple, yet so totally original, that others gape in wonder, saying, "What an ingenious idea"."

Click

I expect I will be able to find more.

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: CarolC
Date: 02 Oct 09 - 04:46 PM

It's definitely true that a disproportional amount of people who are incarcerated in the US have learning disabilities. And that is a testament to how absolutely abysmal the education system in the US has been at providing people with learning disabilities the things they need.

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: Emma B
Date: 02 Oct 09 - 04:49 PM

"Does someone have such a strong need to feel superior to those who have learning disabilities that they can't cope with the idea that some of them can be better at some things than they are?"

Carol, speaking entirely for myself of course, I might also say that neither do some of us with specific learning difficulties experience any strong need to feel superior to those without either, unlike some who have posted here.

As I also said, I have been scored high on spatial awareness/skills

By my understanding the right hemisphere recognizes the picture, the overview or the context, while the left brain translates that image into words - my score was exactly 50/50!

But I have also - thank you my wonderful teachers - been taught the skills of logic and debate and scientific enquiry although do you think these might be the 'gift' of specific learning difficulties too Lizzie?

I have also recieved compliments on my culinary skills - another 'gift'? - well I never realized how much I had to thank dysgraphia for Lizzie!
Obviously nothing to do with a lifelong love of cooking and (some unfortunate) experimentations :)

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: SINSULL
Date: 02 Oct 09 - 04:55 PM

The schools are to blame for the prisoners but not applauded for their success with ones who make it. Hardly seems right.

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: CarolC
Date: 02 Oct 09 - 05:06 PM

Yup. That's right. It is a chronic problem, and until the schools improve their performance in this regard, it would be no more appropriate to congratulate them than it would be to congratulate a doctor on his or her successes if their negligence was causing large numbers of their patients to die.


On the subject of feeling superior, personally, I would just like to see people understand the differences, to appreciate that it's ok for those of us who have differently wired brains to be the way we are. That we have our own abilities, and that, although they aren't always understood or recognized by the larger population, they still have value of their own.

Even at my age, I am still often judged as being less than adequate by people who don't understand how I experience the world, and who don't see that while my way of experiencing it has its problems, it also has benefits as well.

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 02 Oct 09 - 06:04 PM

Get over it, Dave. I have a home-educated daughter, who has chosen to take no school examinations, instead going directly to an Open University course. She has taught herself far more than her 'teachers' ever taught her. She was given a love of learning by her parents...and this was switched off by her teachers.

She rose above it all, worked damned hard and now has the respect of all those have employed her in the past, and now employ her in the present. She was chosen for her National Trust job by a manager who thought she was the right person for it. I call that 'headhunting' because she was in another job at the time, and had not put in for a new job back then.   She was known about, thought emminently suitable for the job and so, was offered it.

You can take the National Trust to court over it, if you so wish, if that will give you some kind of thrill and make you feel like a big chap.

If it irks you deeply that I have wonderful kids, who are thought highly of by other people. Tough shite.

You may 'teach' dyslexic people, but you sure as hell don't understand 'em.

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 02 Oct 09 - 06:06 PM

"Yup. That's right. It is a chronic problem, and until the schools improve their performance in this regard, it would be no more appropriate to congratulate them than it would be to congratulate a doctor on his or her successes if their negligence was causing large numbers of their patients to die.


On the subject of feeling superior, personally, I would just like to see people understand the differences, to appreciate that it's ok for those of us who have differently wired brains to be the way we are. That we have our own abilities, and that, although they aren't always understood or recognized by the larger population, they still have value of their own.

Even at my age, I am still often judged as being less than adequate by people who don't understand how I experience the world, and who don't see that while my way of experiencing it has its problems, it also has benefits as well. "


BRILLIANTLY put, Carol! :0)

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: SINSULL
Date: 02 Oct 09 - 06:19 PM

Carol,
I have many dyslexic, learning disabled, autistic and even mentally ill schizophrenics in my family and social circle. My son spent eight years in Special Ed; depression and schizophrenia are in the family genes; my company hires people who are different.
All have some difficulty in some social situations. Some have been institutionalized for their own proyection. None - I repeat NONE - allow these difficulties to invade their life or their self respect. Not one. Not one of them wears their problems on their sleeves (and I assure you, their problems are mammoth) as you and Lizzie do. Is it at all possible that it is your attitude and not your disability causing your perceived difficulties?
This is not an attack. Look at how you interact with people just here on Mudcat. Always accusing, always complaining, always belittling anyone who has an alternate opinion or view of life. Then look at others here on Mudcat who have the same difficulties/gifts that you have who are able to function socially, make a point without attacking and accept an alternate opinion as valid FOR THE POSTER if not themselves.
No one here judges you as less adequate. Many do take offense at your insistance that you are right they are wrong and the world has somehow cheated you.
Mary

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 02 Oct 09 - 06:52 PM

Well said, Mary.

Just back from the loacl church hall quiz night where I discussed this subject with my daughters, both with learning difficulties. They do find it highly offensive that people consider that, because they have learning difficulties, they are somehow more creative than others. The creative work they have done has been a result of hard work, not because of some special 'gift'. Anecdotal of course but as this seems to be acceptatble here...

DeG

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 02 Oct 09 - 06:55 PM

What a load of baloney, Mary.

Sorry, but I don't wear dyslexia on my sleeve. I don't brand my children either...

I tell you what though, I got damn bloody mad when I saw the terrible damage that school had done to my child...and if more parents felt that anger, admitted to some of the terrible things that are going on, then that institution would be a far better place, because it would have to be.

I don't take to people telling me how I should be. I AM me.

Carol feels the same, I think.   

I've been hounded on the internet for the way I write. I've had a witch hunt out for years...You saw what another Mudcatter had written about me on Facebook, and no, it was NOT a page made by the BNP.

I have never demanded that these strumped up twits write in another way, or told them how or what to write about.

School is fine for some kids and it's hell for others..and that is the part that is not taken into account..the 'hell' bit.

I find it appalling that so many people suffer because of ignorant people who know *nothing* about dyslexia, yet profess to knowing it all.

You said to Carol, above...

"..Is it at all possible that it is your attitude and not your disability causing your perceived difficulties?.."

Sigh...

Mary, Carol does NOT have a 'disability'! That's the whole point of what she, and I, have been trying to say! Dyslexia is NOT a disability, it's purely my brain, Carol's brain, whoever's brain, lighting up in different parts, that's all.

And if I/we get bloody angry at times with those who constantly tell us...me at least..how I should be, or seek to belittle me, poring over every word I write, looking for faults...is it any wonder!

Holey Moley!

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 02 Oct 09 - 06:59 PM

Oh geez....

David! ALL creative people work hard!

It takes my daughter weeks of hard work to create her paintings, but the finished result is overwhelmingly beautiful and people literally gasp, but she *still* to this day, has no confidence in her artwork because of how she was treated at school.

Dyslexia is not a learning *difficulty*, it is purely another *normal* way of learning, which differs from the way in which 'they' want your daughters to learn.

If they were allowed to learn in a natural way, a way natural to them, that is, they wouldn't have ANY difficulties at all, because they'd just follow their minds!

Yes, it really is that easy!

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 02 Oct 09 - 07:01 PM

ADVANTAGES of Dyslexia


THE ADVANTAGES of BEING DYSLEXIC and ADD

WHAT CAN DYSLEXIC AND ADD PEOPLE DO better than others ?

Strengths of Creative Thinkers *
Many people with learning differences of Dyslexia and ADD are capable of some extraordinary

thinking and can be extremely successful once they learn some coping strategies. This is why

we prefer to call them, more appropriately, Creative Thinkers. Some of the Creative Thinkers

strengths are:

Persistence,

Concentration,

Perception,

Vivid imagination,

Creativity,

Drive and ambition,

Curiosity,

Thinking in pictures instead of words,

Superior reasoning,

Capable of seeing things differently from others,

Love of complexity,

Simultaneous multiple thought processing,

Quickly mastering new concepts, and

Not following the Crowd.



Most people who are not dyslexic and rate low on the scale of Creative Thinking, are verbal

learners, based on word acquisition by hearing. Verbal learning is limited to the speed of a

person's speech. This auditory information goes into the conscious mind, so that the non-dyslexic

person is aware of the information.



Thinking and learning in pictures rather than words is thousands of times faster, and is

subliminal, going directly into the subconscious mind. This visual learning style is what a

Creative Thinker uses. The acquisition of information as pictures create an immense amount

of multi-dimensional information, that can be manipulated in many forms by the brain to

enable intuitive thinking, perception, and other interesting thought processes. Frequently this

learning style leads to thought delays, because of the tremendous amounts of information

processed.



Unusual Abilities of Some Creative Thinkers
Although each Creative Thinker is distinctly different in their mental capabilities, some of these abilities can be evidence of the intellectual and creative powers of a genius waiting to be unlocked. Imagine feeling that someone is behind you before you can see or hear them. Some Creative Thinkers have mental abilities that go well beyond this common phenomena and approach the supernatural. Examples include:

Controlling the perception of time, causing it to operate in slow motion or rapidly,


Doing complex math in their head quickly; but not knowing how they did it,


Seeing a solution from a mental examination of the components, such as projecting interest rates for investments, or creating a new computer chip,


Communicating telepathically with others, or


Controlling the outcome of events, like calling the correct numbers on dice before they are rolled.

Although not all Creative Thinkers possess these talents, extrasensory perceptions like these represent abilities that are uniquely valuable to some; but ludicrous to others who do not understand the learning and mental processing differences of making effective use of the right side of the brain by Creative Thinkers.



Some of the Successful People Who Admit That They Are
Dyslexic or ADD Include:


Tom Cruise - Actor

Jay Leno - Television personality (Tonight Show )

Thomas Edison - Inventor

Albert Einstein - Inventor

Winston Churchill - British Prime Minister, WWII

George Bush- Former US President

George Patton - US General, WWII

George Burns - Comedian

Whoopi Goldberg, Actress

Danny Glover, Actor

Cher - Actress, Singer

SOURCE: "The Many Facets of Dyslexia"





Some Common Traits Associated with the Learning Differences
of Dyslexia and ADD
Each person is different and will have a unique combination of the common traits listed below.

1. Thinks visually.

2. Daydreams.

3. Easily distractible.

4. Aware of everything.

5. Able to do multiple things at the same time.

6. Seeks stimulation.

7. Highly creative.

8. Immature social behavior, says what comes to mind.

9. Poor penmanship.

10. Difficulty remembering names.

11. Seeks immediate gratification.

12. Impulsive and impatient.

13. Suffers from motion sickness.

14. Can see patterns into the future.

15. Capable of intense short-term focus.

16. Quick decision maker.

17. Bored by ordinary tasks.

18. Risk taker.

19. Have had problems with ears.

20. More independent than a team player.

21. Sees the big picture.

22. Curious.

23. Experience thoughts as reality.

24. Subject to disorientation.

25. Sometimes has psychic - extrasensory abilities.

26. Highly intuitive.

27. Short attention span, inattentive.

28. Has a vivid imagination.

29. Artistic.

30. Has a sense of under achievement.

31. Have spatial orientation problems (left/right, north/south)

32. Talks excessively.

33. Reverses letters and numbers.

34. Slow reader when young.

35. Difficulty with math concepts.

36. Problems with self-esteem.

37. Problems mastering phonics and spelling.

38. Problems understanding the rules of grammar.

39. Reads best by memorizing, the "Look-Say System."

40. Always active-constantly thinking,

41. Learns best by hands on, rather than lecture or reading.

42. Low tolerance for frustration.

43. Realize that they are different from others.

44. Take longer to think and respond than others.

45. Able to create a complete mental picture from pieces.

46. Somewhat disorganized.

47. Capable of changing on a moments notice.

48. Have phobias: like fear of dark, heights, speaking in public.

49. Prefer unstructured situations with freedom.

50. Feels like they see problems from the perspective of a helicopter flying above

forests of problems rather than working from the root of trees in one forest.

51. See things that others don't.

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: SINSULL
Date: 02 Oct 09 - 07:05 PM

I didn't expect a rational response. Thank you, Dave.

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 02 Oct 09 - 07:13 PM

I wish I could master cut and paste as well as some. I would include lists of people who have achieved wonderful things without the help of this wonderful gift. Does it automaticaly come with this alarmingly patrononising attitude to 'special' people?

DeG

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: Emma B
Date: 02 Oct 09 - 07:29 PM

"Does it automaticaly come with this alarmingly patrononising attitude to 'special' people?"

It really is patronising Dave, infinately more so than the 'patronising' allegation Lizzie made against me for something someone else said!

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: CarolC
Date: 02 Oct 09 - 07:39 PM

Excuse me, but I do NOT wear my disabilities on my sleeve. What I have been saying is a very integral part of any discussion of home schooling. I am responding to people who think that schools do a better job with kids who have learning disabilities than home schooling parents can. This may be true for SOME PEOPLE, but it is not true for everyone.

To say that simply by offering a different perspective based on my own experiences, I am wearing my disabilities on my sleeve shows the kind of ignorance that I have been talking about. To think that I should not be able to offer these perspectives without being accused of wearing my disabilities on my sleeve suggests that the person saying that would prefer people with learning disabilities to just shut up and accept whatever we are told. That's an incredibly patronizing and self-important attitude.

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: CarolC
Date: 02 Oct 09 - 07:42 PM

And by the way, I have not said that I am more creative than anyone else on this thread. This tendency for someone to continually mischaracterize what I have said shows a huge disability on the part of the person doing it. That disability would be a profound lack of honesty and character.

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: Emma B
Date: 02 Oct 09 - 07:44 PM

the person with specific learning difficulties should just shut up and accept whatever we are told on this thread?

No ******* way Carol!

Believe it!

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: CarolC
Date: 02 Oct 09 - 07:46 PM

Hell, I have not even said that there are more creative people with learning disabilities than those without. All I said is that it is common for people with learning disabilities to do well in creative endeavors.

Really, this need to outright lie about what I have said is just nasty and totally uncalled for.

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: Jack Campin
Date: 02 Oct 09 - 08:00 PM

More on that claim that Einstein was dyslexic. Does this look like a dyslexic person's work to you?

Einstein 1925 manuscript

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: Goose Gander
Date: 02 Oct 09 - 08:01 PM

I don't believe there is only one 'correct' way for one's brain to work. People called dyslexic or asperger's certainly process information differently, but that doesn't mean they have a 'bad brain' (cue the Ramones here). I have a friend working on a Ph.D in psychology dealing with border-line autism not as a problem to be 'fixed' but rather as part of a continuum of possible learning and processing styles.

We didn't have to 'fix' my brother, he just sort of grew out of his 'phase' - first through lots of physical kinetic activity (skateboarding, break-dancing, and surfing) then discovering and loving mathematics which led to computer programming.

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: Folkiedave
Date: 02 Oct 09 - 08:16 PM

I've been hounded on the internet for the way I write. I've had a witch hunt out for years.

Not by me Lizzie. I have complained vociferously about WHAT you write.

Subtle difference.

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: CarolC
Date: 02 Oct 09 - 08:20 PM

I think it's important for people with learning differences to be able to use the word disability, and I won't stop doing it. This is because sometimes living in a world of people who mostly don't have these differences becomes a disability, because things aren't set up to accommodate people with these kinds of differences.

For instance, if someone who can't walk wants to go to school, they are allowed to use a wheel chair to get around the school. The inability to walk does not prevent them from being able to learn and do well in that environment because they are allowed to use tools that other people don't use in order to compensate for their deficiency. People with learning disabilities need to be able to use tools that help them cope with and adapt to the school environment also (if they are not being home schooled). For instance, in order for me to learn math, I need to not be always banging my head against my inability to retain and process numbers in my head. I need to have a tool that does that for me. When I was a child, I usually failed math or got at best, Ds (two above failing). It wasn't that I couldn't understand and learn the processes, I just couldn't hold the numbers in my head in order to actually do the process.

When I went back to college in my 30s armed with the new knowledge of my specific learning disability, I was able to insist, because of the Americans with Disabilities Act, that I be allowed to have either a calculator or a multiplication table with me at all times in math class. I was allowed to have a multiplication table and I got a B in that class. I would have gotten an A, but using the table took me much longer than the other students took, and I had to leave class before I was finished with the final exam to go pick up my son from daycare.

Had I not been able to call what I have a disability, I would have failed that class.

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: Emma B
Date: 02 Oct 09 - 08:43 PM

"I've been hounded on the internet for the way I write"

No Lizzie, it's because you write as 'facts' things that are simply inaccurate or serious misreprentations of the truth.

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: SINSULL
Date: 02 Oct 09 - 09:18 PM

Carol,
By the mid-70s everyone was using a calculator in math and business classes. In the 80s IN PUBLIC SCHOOL my son did not bang his head against his disability. He learned his way - with ADD and dyslexia. Long before he entered Summit, Public School teachers were showing me ways of helping him learn his way. Ranting on and on about your experiences 30 years ago is no more productive than me ranting on and on about physical abuse in Catholic schools. It has been recognized; it has changed. Everyone else has moved on. Why do you need to repeatedly retell the story of your childhood? Move on.

And you do wear your disabilties on your sleeve while everyone else has taken advantage of new attitudes and developments and moved on. I REPEAT: "Is it at all possible that it is your attitude and not your disability causing your perceived difficulties?"


Lizzie,
You have been barred repeatedly from various websites because you make a nuisance of yourself and prevent the websites from functioning. Your special gifts do not entitle you to screw around with the rest of us.

You listed 51 traits of people with dyslexia and ADD. On any given day I exhibit at least 30 of them and when my thyroid goes "off" all of them. So what?

This list supposedly shows how dyslexic people surpass the norm:
Persistence,

Concentration,

Perception,

Vivid imagination,

Creativity,

Drive and ambition,

Curiosity,

Thinking in pictures instead of words,

Superior reasoning,

Capable of seeing things differently from others,

Love of complexity,

Simultaneous multiple thought processing,

Quickly mastering new concepts, and

Not following the Crowd.



A total crock! It is a list of traits attributable to successful people in every walk of life, dyslexic or not.
Just because you find it in print does not make it gospel truth. You claim you are dyslexic. How is it that you are incapable of grasping even the simplest idea put forth by anyone here or anywhere else on the web?

Now back to our regular progamming:
You do not understand because you do not live in my mind. I teach truth and love and decency in a world full of anger and hate and my son is good while Dave's girls have been indoctrinated by a system that does not allow them to see that they are better than anyone else and yadayadayada

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: Folkiedave
Date: 02 Oct 09 - 09:23 PM

She was chosen for her National Trust job by a manager who thought she was the right person for it. I call that 'headhunting' because she was in another job at the time, and had not put in for a new job back then.

Lizzie you can call it what you like. "Headhunting" has a specific meaning in the context of employment and I have explained - patiently - why it has a specific meaning.

You can take the National Trust to court over it, if you so wish, if that will give you some kind of thrill and make you feel like a big chap.

Lizzie - why on earth would I want to do that? I thought possibly, just possibly, that you were using the term in a wrong way. And that using it like that could possibly have legal repercussions. Had someone done that for me I would have been grateful. Especially when they were right. Let me move on.....


Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: Lizzie Cornish 1 - PM
Date: 02 Oct 09 - 07:01 PM

ADVANTAGES of Dyslexia

When you did that why did you not include this disclaimer?

We try to make our information as accurate and helpful as possible, but give no guarantee that the information available through this website is accurate or up to date and accept no responsibility for errors or omissions.

When your "kids", as you charmingly call, them were teaching themselves the use of computers and the internet, did you mention anything about the dangers of indiscriminate cutting and pasting of material?

If it irks you deeply that I have wonderful kids, who are thought highly of by other people. Tough shite.

Why on earth would that worry me? I am delighted your children are doing so well, and if, as you tell us - this is the result of your insights into dyslexia, great.

I asked you how you brought up these wonderful young people, because you claim perceptions that many of us don't have. Especially teachers.

You claim insight into musicians and dyslexia and all I want you to do is share these wonderful insights you have with the rest of us.

Which - remarkably in my opinion - you refuse to do. And I happen to think that is a shame that we cannot all benefit from your talents.

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: CarolC
Date: 02 Oct 09 - 10:05 PM

Stop patronizing me please, and acting like I couldn't possibly know what I am talking about.

They don't allow calculators in remedial math.

It was not easy for me to get them to let me have a multiplication table. They did not allow me to have a calculator for REMEDIAL MATH

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 03 Oct 09 - 03:10 AM

Yeah, you're right, Dave....You are SO much better than me. I apologise most humbly and beg forgiveness at your feet for being born so bloody daffy brained that it drives you insane. I think it's wonderful that God chose you to educate people like me and my word, we should all be so damned grateful, because how the f*ck would we exist without people like you 'teaching' us how to think, how to write, telling us WHAT to write, picking us up on every single word we say, pointing out our faults all the time without ever believing a single word we say.

How the f*ck would we ever get to LIVE without folks like you around, huh...?

can't see why I've never seen it before, but then, heck I'm sooo stoooopid, right, so I guess it's hardly surprising...



Tell me though....as someone who (apparently) writes nothing but crap, WHY do I manage to make you incensed to the point of obsession?
WHAT is it about me that has enraged (seemingly) an entire section of the English Folk World to the point where they've had a campaign to silence me?


I tell you what, I withdraw my apology. You want to know why? Because I the Right to Write as I so choose, same as you do.   

"To be nobody but yourself in a world which is doing its best, night and day, to make you everybody else means to fight the hardest battle which any human being can fight; and never stop fighting." - e. e. cummings

I've fought damn bloody hard for that right....and no obsessive prat will ever make me feel inferior, so perhaps they should stop trying to do it.

The difference between you and I, Dave, is that I am happy that I'm me, and you are not.

My brain is bouncy, and I LOVE it!

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 03 Oct 09 - 03:49 AM

"To be nobody but yourself in a world which is doing its best, night and day, to make you everybody else means to fight the hardest battle which any human being can fight; and never stop fighting." - e. e. cummings


And until EVERY school in the world has that emblazoned, proudly, above the entrance to its doors and makes it the most important lesson they 'teach', then I will *never* believe in them.

Until they stop seeing children merely as Exam Fodder and League Table Achievers, and start seeing them as Profoundly Precious Human Beings, then we ain't going nowhere.

Until they themselves can learn to let go of testing, of homework, or exams and are then freed to see the uniqueness of every child, together with the skills and creative ability of each child, things will not get better.

The people who most need to learn, in schools, are those who create schools in the first place.

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: Folkiedave
Date: 03 Oct 09 - 04:26 AM

Yeah, you're right, Dave....You are SO much better than me. I apologise most humbly and beg forgiveness at your feet for being born so bloody daffy brained that it drives you insane.

I don't think that and I have never said it. Apart from that every word is true.

can't see why I've never seen it before, but then, heck I'm sooo stoooopid, right, so I guess it's hardly surprising...

Well you have said that Lizzie - I certainly haven't.

The difference between you and I, Dave, is that I am happy that I'm me, and you are not.

Lizzie I only ever comment on your posts when you write unsubstantiated rubbish and I comment on the rubbish not on you. And the evidence is there for people to see.

But of course it is much easier to make personal attacks on people, rather than inform people how you can tell a msucician who is dyslexic, autistic purely by watching them.

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: Lizzie Cornish 1 - PM
Date: 02 Oct 09 - 10:49 AM

I can tell a musician who's dyslexic, autistic...purely from watching them...

I do honestly wish I could - but then as you correctly point out I don't have your bouncy brain.

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 03 Oct 09 - 04:30 AM

Yup, some have brains which they get from 'Cadavers R Us'...

Personally, I love the Tigger Brains best, but heck, wadda I no, huh?

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: CarolC
Date: 03 Oct 09 - 04:55 AM

I also find it very rich, that when I am recounting an experience I had in which I was finally able to feel emmpowered for the first time in my life in an academic setting, and to have taken control of my environment and created a very good outcome for myself, the resident know-it-all here in the Mudcat is characterizing what I said as ranting on about what happened to me 30 years ago and wearing my disability on my sleeve.

When people advocate for themselves and their kids, and do everything in their power to ensure that their needs are met, and their kids' needs are met, this is not wearing one's disability on their sleeve. This is taking control of and responsibility for one's life and one's kids. Wearing my disability on my sleeve would be me giving up and not ever doing anything to try to correct what is wrong. Well, I'll be fucked if I will ever just sit back and not participate in a discussion about whether or not home schooling is needed for some kids with learning disabilities, and why, just so I can be sure that I won't be accused of wearing my disabilities on my sleeve by an ignorant, overbearing, busybody here in the Mudcat.

Some people really need to get over themselves.

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: Rasener
Date: 03 Oct 09 - 05:01 AM

http://dyslexiavictoria.wordpress.com/2009/06/

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 03 Oct 09 - 05:20 AM

I found this comment from the link posted, rather interesting!

"recent information I found from a major New Zealand Dyslexia Awareness association [..]. They found that schools in the U.K. who used Dyslexia Friendly methods in the classrooms had amazing results. By using teaching methods that work well with Dyslexics, the whole class, including the non-Dyslexics, moved forward more quickly than if the class was taught using traditional teaching methods."

Sounds like all kids could do better with Dyslexic friendly methods?

I wasn't dyslexic, but I had a poor memory for facts (still do) and I found it very hard to concentrate on subjects that were not naturally stimulating or creatively engaging, and thus found early schooling quite challenging. As a consequence, I believed I was not very smart.

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 03 Oct 09 - 05:36 AM

Brilliant link, Villan!

Taken from it...

"...I know that the ignorance that has surrounded Dyslexia 25 years ago is still with us now..."

YAY!

And sadly, much evidence of that is to be seen on this thread.

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 03 Oct 09 - 07:12 AM

Well, that's another reasonable thread well and truly Lizzied...

Can I make a request for Joe or a clone to put an end to this tirade of personal abuse and complete twaddle please?

DeG

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 03 Oct 09 - 07:23 AM

Why would you want to silence me, when I have no desire to silence you, David?

You are free to express yourself as you so wish, in my book.
Sadly, it seems that in yours, I am not.

Hmmmmmm.....

And I notice that not once have you taken issue with Dave's continuous 'harrassment' of me (and no-one else)

Double Hmmmmmmm........

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: Folkiedave
Date: 03 Oct 09 - 07:34 AM

Excellent link Villan.

Not a word on there I could disagree with.

As far as I can see it is Canadian and they may be in front of what we do here. At the University in Quebec where we stayed last year, there was a notice for students about dyslexia for French speakers and they seemed very aware of different learning styles. Certainly this bi-lingualism may be a factor. Our friends in Ottawa brought up their children bi-lingually and one of them struggled because it was thought she might be dyslexic. She was tested at a very young age (and as it happens found not to be).

And I agree whole-heartedly about the whole class improving. I know when I had the quadriplegic student I referred to earlier in my class, I had to change things in the class and for the better.

When my wife was studying for her dyslexia assessment qualification she had to do some practical teaching experience and chose to work in the local primary school with a particular child. It worked really well and the headteacher and class teacher were well pleased with the progress made, not just with the particular child (who measuringly improved) but with the rest of the class.

So why does it take so long to change things when the answers are so blindingly obvious?

Well I can make some suggestions.

Some of the methods are anathema to parents who can easily revolt. When a secondary school in Sheffield tried to alter the way children were taught the parents went barmy because the children were not being taught by "traditional" methods - next to no time the press were down and around their ears. Try as he might the headteacher could not convince anyone and it went out of the window. And there is much less freedom to experiment nowadays.

We know how much difference a decent meal makes at lunchtime for many young pupils and students - remember the revolts over that? Parents feeding chips to their children through the school railings?

All people "know" about education because virtually everyone goes through some sort of education system amd "it worked for them". Look how difficult it was to stop corporal punishment in schools, and there are those who will still justify it on the grounds "I was thrashed within an inch of my life and it never did me any harm guv". See here. You might care to note that the school is Independent and Christian. Current charge is £3.600 + per year. And it goes up on joint incomes over £40,000.

In addition of course - to change things like that can be very expensive. It would take a long time to permeate the techniques through the system. Undoubtedly smaller classes help but that costs money. More computers would help and that costs money. Specialist dyslexic assessors and teachers cost money to train and the training is not easy as I explained in an earlier post. So that costs money.

All those in favour of much higher taxes to ensure better education, the benefit of which may not be fully felt for twenty years - raise your hand.

So it is possible that far from it being teachers fault that things don't change, it can be parents who "know" about education who can be just as much at fault.

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: Tug the Cox
Date: 03 Oct 09 - 07:42 AM

Home schooling may be something forced upon me!. my daughter Peggy, nearly 16 and in her exam year, is a good, commited student, is well liked by all her teachers, and is in many ways a model pupil. On Tuesday, during lunch break she was using another girl's mobile phone. In lunch break, not in class. Only school knows when it is OK to communicate with others, apparently, and the punishment is confiscation ( theft)of the phone. As the phone was not hers, Peg refused to give it up and was sent home. Apparently she must attend on Monday, surrender the phone and eat humble pie, or she will be permanently excluded.....in her exam year.
   Her mum, in a controlled rage, rang the head of year, who was sorryb that it was Peg who was involved, but reitersted that rules were rules. he was told that we had an old broken mobile that she could bring in...this seemed to be acceptable!!. Peg's mum then pointed out that the school saw fit to swap a broken mobile foe a child's education, abd asked the teacher whether he was proud of the system over which he presided.
   I wish that this was an isolated incident, sadly it isn't. Every week the pape4rs carry stories of children excluded for their hair style, theuir jewellry, their piercings, the colour of their socks etc. Teachers sadly come to accept this state of affairs as normal, or even preferable. I spent many years interviewing young people for posts in teacher training, and was heartened by their sense of vocation, justice and the needs of the individual. A few years in the system and these convictions are driven underground, if not expunged totally.
This is the great fault of compulsory schooling. The perceived needs of the institution are put before those of the child, an inversion of the natural order. Chris Shute sees this dynamic as 'Micro-Fascism ( and before anyone shouts 'hyperbole' read his reasoned arguments). In short schooling is put before education, with tragic results. This is one of the reasons why so many opt for home schooling, and many more are forced into it by the escalating use of p[ermanent exclusion, currently over 10,000 every year in England and Wales.

Compulsory Schooling Disease: How Children Absorb Fascist Values by Chris Shute (Paperback - 10 Mar 1993)

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 03 Oct 09 - 08:45 AM

That's madness, Jeff. Complete madness.   I am so sorry to read of your troubles. I really hope you are able to work something out with the school, because they are totally wrong, in every single way.

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: Folkiedave
Date: 03 Oct 09 - 08:45 AM

And I notice that not once have you taken issue with Dave's continuous 'harrassment' of me (and no-one else)

Probably because it isn't true, would be my guess.

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 03 Oct 09 - 08:53 AM

I am all for freedom of speech until people start to yell 'fire' in a crowded theatre. A simile sadly close to the truth.

DeG

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: Emma B
Date: 03 Oct 09 - 09:09 AM

off subject but, as it was brought up in a post ....

a news article from 2002 Schools ban mobile phones
looks at the strict policy on mobile phones at Great Barr School in Birmingham where pupils and parents know that any child found with a mobile phone on their person will have it confiscated.


For different reasons to those expressed by the headmaster above the Tories have said in an education policy document that they wanted to see authority returned to teachers.
They reckoned an important part of that proposal would include a crackdown on the use of mobile phones.

David Cameron et al want to see more power handed to teachers because of concerns over disruptive behaviour and bullying in the classroom and school playground, including the increase in "happy slapping" incidents among teenagers using camera phones.

A web site aimed at assisting parents to communicate effectively with their childrens school strongly advocates that
'If you are considering buying your child a mobile, it is important to know whether they are allowed in schools so it's a good idea to look into this
Most schools will clearly outline their policy on mobile usage'

Some Times readers make their personal views known -
Should mobile phones be banned from schools?

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 03 Oct 09 - 09:35 AM

So, do you believe that the school was correct then, Emma?

I sure as hell don't.