Origins: Barrett's Privateers (Stan Rogers)

Subject: Barrett's Privateers - Can anyone help us?
From: Sherbrooke Village
Date: 27 Jul 98 - 03:57 PM

We are looking for information on the Stan Rogers Song "Barrett's Privateers". We are looking for the sources that Stan may have used for this song. For instance, does anyone know which Sherbrooke he was referring to?

Thanks!

Subject: RE: Barrett's Privateers - Can anyone help us?
From: Richard Wright
Date: 27 Jul 98 - 05:23 PM

Try his web site or the STan Rogers Festival site

Subject: RE: Barrett's Privateers - Can anyone help us?
From: Dan Calder
Date: 27 Jul 98 - 08:57 PM

Check out the Stan Rogers Page:

http://www.summerfolk.org/srmain.htm

You'll find all sorts of great informaton, including extensive writings and discussions on Barrett's Privateers. All of your questions regarding all things Stan-Related (and some you never even thought of) will be answered.

Enjoy, Dan

Subject: RE: Barrett's Privateers - Can anyone help us?
From: Barry Finn
Date: 27 Jul 98 - 09:52 PM

Or if you're just looking for the words & tune you could try the DT. Barry

Subject: RE: Barrett's Privateers - Can anyone help us?
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 27 Jul 98 - 09:55 PM

Sherbrook is in Nova Scotia.

Subject: RE: Barrett's Privateers - Can anyone help us?
From:
Date: 27 Jul 98 - 10:44 PM

There's also a Sherbrooke in Quebec, straight North of Orleans, Vermont an hour or so. It's NE of Magog, and due SOuth of Asbestos. As I recall, that area of Quebec is know as the Eastern townships, although it's been some time since I visited that part of the world. I'd have to bet that Stan was refering to the Sherbrooke in N.S., though, since the P.Q. Sherbrooke is quite a ways from the St. Lawrence. I guess this note is just a waste of everyone's time, but I did get to recall some ol' Northern road trips. Look for the several parody versions of this great tune on the Stan site. Happy pickin'! JESTER!

Subject: RE: Barrett's Privateers - Can anyone help us?
From: Ireland O'Reilly
Date: 28 Jul 98 - 12:21 PM

If the Sherbrooke in Barett's Privateers is in fact Sherbrooke, Nova Scotia, I suppose it was poetic license on Stan's part when he said "The year was 1778" as our humble town in Nova Scotia was not known as "Sherbrooke" until about 1815 or so.

Subject: RE: Barrett's Privateers - Can anyone help us?
From: Dan Calder
Date: 28 Jul 98 - 12:37 PM

One has to keep in mind that Stan wrote the song in about half an hour one evening. He was performing with The Friends of Fiddlers Green, and became annoyed when he couldn't get a chance to sing the lead in any of the sea chanteys they were doing. So...he went off into a quiet corner and wrote his own...one only he could sing the lead to that evening...thus came about the birth of Barrett's Privateers. Quite a guy was Stan. Another song he reportedly wrote quickly was "The House of Orange"...a much more meaningful piece of work, especially in light of what has been going on in Northern Ireland lately. It was also the last song Stan ever wrote. He said, "I don't care what your politics are, when our children are dying in the streets, it's time to put away the guns." Amen to that.

Dan

Subject: Origins: Barrett's Privateers
From: Ireland O'Reilly
Date: 28 Jul 98 - 01:01 PM

"I don't care what your politics are, when our children are dying in the streets, it's time to put away the guns."

Yes, Dan... a fervent Amen.

Back to the privateers for a moment, though. I've found a couple of sources with an interesting twist. More than one source says that perhaps the "Sherbrooke" in Stan's song refers to a ship, and not the town. There were three ships called "Sherbrooke" on the water at the time the song is supposed to take place. One was out of Halifax, and was named the Sir John Sherbrooke, after a great military man of the day (and later, one of our governors here in Nova Scotia), Sir John Coape Sherbrooke. Incidentally, both Sherbrooke NS and Sherbrooke PQ were named after Sir John as well. A great page with info on "Barrett's..." is here, at Barrett's Privateers Explored.

Cheers,

Ireland

Subject: RE: Barrett's Privateers - Can anyone help us?
From:
Date: 29 Jul 98 - 07:37 PM

Didn't know that about the date of the use of the name Sherbrooke in Nova Scotia. I had always assumed that it was so called from the days when the United Empire Loyalists went there during the American Revolutionary War. What name did it go by then?

Besides, I think most of the serious privateering was done during the War of 1812, but 1812 wouldn't scan.:)

Stan was a great singer and writer, but like all of his he sometimes made a few mistakes of fact. For example, in The Nancy, The Moy was not on Lake St. Clair but on the Detroit River on what is now the Canadian side. And I have never been able to figure out what incident he refers to in that song. There were MacIntoshes here, but as far as I am aware they were British subjects in good standing and never had any battles with the militia. Amherstberg fell during the War of 1812 but I haven't read any reference in any local history book to the MacIntoshes doing battle with the Americans from their schooner. It is the sort of thing that would likely have been mentioned, and no doubt a plaque erected.

And the Blue Dolphin was at the bottom of the harbour in Sarnia, not Windsor. Last I heard of it, in one of the Detroit papers, some eccentric old geezer had it in dock in Detroit wanting to restore it, and someone unplugged the pumps by mistake and it sank again. That was several years ago and I have heard nothing of it since.

But I never let these pedantic concerns get in the way of a good song.:)

Subject: RE: Barrett's Privateers - Can anyone help us?
From: Dan Calder
Date: 29 Jul 98 - 08:16 PM

"Never let the truth stand in the way of a good story."

Dan

Subject: RE: Barrett's Privateers - Can anyone help us?
From: Dan Calder
Date: 29 Jul 98 - 08:18 PM

"Never let the truth stand in the way of a good story." Let the historians worry about the details...you can always find them in a book. Let the music be the main message. We can overlook a few flaws now and then. Dan

Subject: RE: Barrett's Privateers - Can anyone help us?
From:
Date: 29 Jul 98 - 08:52 PM

And "Watching The Apples Grow" is to the tune of "The Cherokee Shuffle", but who cares?:)

Subject: RE: Barrett's Privateers - Can anyone help us?
From: Ireland O'Reilly
Date: 30 Jul 98 - 12:59 PM

Before 1818 the town of Sherbrooke, PQ was known as Grandes Fourches. The town of Sherbrooke, NS, also had a french name. it was first settled as a fur-trading outpost around the 1650's and was called Fort Sainte Marie, after the St. Mary's river, near which the settlement was built. the town was mostly French to begin with, but by the time the 1800's came, the british had also come. Shrbrooke was primarily scottish presbyterian (probably spelled wrong!) community. More on sherbrooke, check this out...

Cheers,

Ireland

Subject: RE: Barrett's Privateers - Can anyone help us?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 30 Jul 98 - 01:57 PM

Say, Ireland, I tried to send you a personal message, but apparently you aren't registered or you're set up not to allow messages. Take a look here for Dan Mulligan's HTML primer. You had the link above almost right, but you put a slash before the a href and that goofed it up. Slashes are used to terminate an HTML command, and you put that slash at the beginning of your command instead of at the end.
Quotation marks within a link are optional, as far as I can see - but if you open a link with quotes, you have to close it with quotes. See Dan's example - you can leave out his quote marks if you like, but you have to leave them out on both ends of the link.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: Barrett's Privateers - Can anyone help us?
From: Ireland O'Reilly
Date: 30 Jul 98 - 02:31 PM

Thanks, Joe!

I am well-versed in the ways of HTML, but was in a hurry & i didn't bother to check my typing. As a lot of people know, I'm _always_ in aa hurry, and I'm a terrlble, terrible typpist when I'm in a hurry. :) I'm glad somebody cares enough to go behind me and pick up on my typos :)

I know some people who would probably benefit from the primer, though. :)

Subject: RE: Barrett's Privateers - Can anyone help us?
From: harpgirl
Date: 28 Jun 99 - 12:11 AM

this thread might help Rick and Dianne...harpgirl

Subject: RE: Barrett's Privateers - Can anyone help us?
From: Night Owl
Date: 28 Jun 99 - 10:09 AM

Great information....thanks all...hope there's more!!!! (Not letting the facts get in the way of good music.)

Subject: RE: Barrett's Privateers - Can anyone help us?
From:
Date: 03 May 00 - 08:04 PM

BTW, there are people who remembered hearing in the early days of the song, Stan singing the song as "on" Sherbrooke, rather than "in" Sherbrooke, feeding the speculation it was really a ship by that name. According to those who have researched it, there were several ships which had that name, none known to be of the year mentioned in the song. Also, there was a General Sherbrooke, who was the fellow that both the Quebec and Nova Scotia communities were possibly named for, since he served in both areas.

Subject: RE: Barrett's Privateers - Can anyone help us?
From: Stewie
Date: 03 May 00 - 08:34 PM

Neil V. Rosenburg (Ed) 'Transforming Tradition: Folk Music Revivals Examined' University of Illinois Press includes 2 essays on the song: Pauline Greenhill '"The Folk Process" in the Revival: "Barrett's Privateers" and "Baratt's Privateers"' (pp 137-157) and Anne Lederman '"Barrett's Privateers": Performance and Participation in the Folk Revival'. (pp 160-174).

--Stewie.

Subject: RE: Barrett's Privateers - Can anyone help us?
From: Willie-O
Date: 03 May 00 - 09:05 PM

Huh. Speaking of coincidences, last Saturday on the finale of the Nova Scotia Kitchen Party on CBC Radio One, they did a Stan Rogers tribute (big surprise, not.) As an extra-special thing they did a multi-location worldwide singalong of you-guessed-it...Barretts Privateers.

It so happened that at the time I was driving down Sherbrooke Street in Montreal (took my young lad and a couple of his pals to the Biodome for the day, hoo-eee!) so of course I sang "Wish I was on Sherbrooke now". Thought I was being clever but apparently I was just being true to the original...

I had an ancestor on my New Brunswick mom's side who tried privateering in the war of 1812. Highly unsuccessful venture. Lost his farm as well as his ship (I think), having mortgaged the former to outfit the latter.

Willie-O

Subject: RE: Barrett's Privateers - Can anyone help us?
From:
Date: 03 May 00 - 09:09 PM

I was there at the time the show was broadcast.

Subject: RE: Barrett's Privateers - Can anyone help us?
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 04 May 00 - 09:37 AM

"In Sherbrooke" would refer to aboard the Sherbrooke just as well as "on Sherbrooke"--more colloquially, in fact, as the usage used to be.

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: Barrett's Privateers - Can anyone help us?
From: T in Oklahoma (Okiemockbird)
Date: 04 May 00 - 10:37 AM

Great thread--thanks for the info and links, everybody!

T.

Subject: RE: Barrett's Privateers - Can anyone help us?
From: Clinton Hammond2
Date: 04 May 00 - 12:21 PM

Read "An Unfinished Conversation".. Stans Bio... all kinds of info about all kinds of stuff...

BUT.. Sherbrooke refers to a town not a ship... And it's vague so that it can apply to any or all of themo...

The song was arranged by Garnet...

Privateers 1n 1778?? A little late boys?!? LOL!! Makes the song even funnier really!

And please people, if yer gonna cover this song, do it a capella like it was ment to be... I've heard some horrible treatments of Barrette and the boys, and the worst offeneders have been the ones who try to put instruments behind it... Don't change the lyrics either... I never "wish I was in Edinburgh now..." We would not presume to rewrite Shakespear eh???

LOL!!!!

{~`

Subject: RE: Barrett's Privateers - Can anyone help us?
From: SDShad
Date: 04 May 00 - 02:44 PM

I must confess that when I sing Barrett's in a setting where "God damn them all" might be inappropriate for a large enough percentage of the audience, I follow the example of someone in a much earlier Mudcat thread and sing it ass "well, hang them all." The original works better, but if there are, for instance, families with small children about, I'll bend to propriety on those occasions.

But "Edinburgh?" Yeesh. Why?

And yes, I do sing it a capella. Unless the inevitable handclaps from the audience count.

Chris

Subject: RE: Barrett's Privateers - Can anyone help us?
From: Bill D
Date: 04 May 00 - 06:48 PM

"Barrett's Privateers" has fallen in with the likes of "The Old Dun Cow" and a few others as songs that seem to grab many newcomers to 'folkish' music...*sigh*...they LOVE to bellow them out at gatherings, whether or not they understand them, know the tune, get the words right--or have heard it done every week for MONTHS!...

...just a personal observation and peeve..*grin*

(perhaps YOU can think of songs which get overdone this way...)

Subject: RE: Barrett's Privateers - Can anyone help us?
From: Clinton Hammond2
Date: 04 May 00 - 08:04 PM

Barretts hardly goes on my list of overdone... it's only been around since 76... But I'll argue that it's FOLK, no if, ands, or buts...

With junk like Wild Rover and Whiskey In The Jar out there I'm all too happy to be singing Barretts instead!!

But I also will not change the lyrics for children.. most parents who are concerned about their children learning language like that are just plain naive and likely their children have already picked it up, or MUCH worse.... Folk music is for common people, and common people use "expressive" language... Why try to deny it.. better to educate yer kids so that they know that there's a time and place for such language... Singing Barrett's, yes. In church, No!

LOL!!!!

{~`

Subject: RE: Barrett's Privateers - Can anyone help us?
From: The Walrus
Date: 05 May 00 - 01:53 PM

>Privateers 1n 1778?? A little late boys?!? LOL!! Makes >the song even funnier really!

Why so?, If the war went into the 1780s, there was still a chance of merchant prizes (and privateering wasn't outlawed until sometime around the 1860s).

As you may have gathered, the American RevWar isn't my period of history.

Regards

Tom

Subject: RE: Barrett's Privateers - Can anyone help us?
From: GUEST,Shane Evong (Halifax)
Date: 11 Jul 02 - 11:42 AM

Great song and it should be appricated a little more.. Who ever said that it sucks with instruments behide it must be deaf.

Subject: RE: Barrett's Privateers - Can anyone help us?
From: Mr Happy
Date: 11 Jul 02 - 12:31 PM

there's a canadian group, 'tanglefoot' who do a superb rendition.

i've seen them loads at uk ffs, & i think they're still here this season

Subject: RE: Barrett's Privateers - Can anyone help us?
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 11 Jul 02 - 12:35 PM

Oh I'm not deaf... I'm just correct...

It does suck with instruments behind it...

Subject: RE: Barrett's Privateers - Can anyone help us?
From: InOBU
Date: 11 Jul 02 - 12:49 PM

Dear SDShad:
My sister in law asked me not sing sing Barrett's Privateers with the God Damn part around my nephew, to , instead, sing gosh darn (fuck's-sake she is raising an effing yuppie!) ... my answer was, "I wont change our cultural traditions, so I'll just not sing around the ween, if he grows up to be an eejit, it is on your head not mine..." Cheers Larry

Subject: RE: Barrett's Privateers - Can anyone help us?
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 11 Jul 02 - 12:52 PM

Yer nephew is how old Larry?

Subject: RE: Barrett's Privateers - Can anyone help us?
From: InOBU
Date: 11 Jul 02 - 03:55 PM

Eleven. Cheers Larry

Subject: RE: Barrett's Privateers - Can anyone help us?
From: MMario
Date: 11 Jul 02 - 04:24 PM

If the four and five year olds at ren-faires can figure out there is a time they can use the language and times they cannot - an eleven year old certainly should be able to!

Subject: RE: Barrett's Privateers - Can anyone help us?
From: EBarnacle1
Date: 11 Jul 02 - 04:37 PM

The in or on argument is getting like the in or on argument in Fiddler's Green. Just do it like the author published it, F'Gawdsakes.

Subject: RE: Barrett's Privateers - Can anyone help us?
From: flattop
Date: 11 Jul 02 - 04:39 PM

Couldn't "in Sherbrooke" and "on Sherbrooke" also both refer to the esteemed General. That's the thing about lyrics and old military men who have been away from women too long, they're open to interpretation.

Subject: RE: Origins: Barrett's Privateers (Stan Rogers)
From: GUEST,Jean in Sherbrooke
Date: 02 Apr 04 - 07:33 PM

The song is about the village in Nova Scotia I dwell in. While Stan was an Ontarian his grandparents lived in Canso, Guysborough County and he spent many a summer there. Sherbrooke is on one end of Guys.Co. and Canso is on the other.

Subject: RE: Origins: Barrett's Privateers (Stan Rogers)
From: InOBU
Date: 02 Apr 04 - 10:00 PM

As this thread has been re-opened... being that me nephew has a very distant relitive who was a GREAT privateer, one of the most successful of all time, Otway Burns... sank and capture more than his share of British shipping in 1812, he should sing God Damn them all... and grow up to be a hearty buck.
Cheers
Larry

Subject: RE: Origins: Barrett's Privateers (Stan Rogers)
From: LadyJean
Date: 03 Apr 04 - 01:02 AM

A Scadian lady I know wrote an S.C.A. parody called "Galen's Privateers" that is very funny, ending with the lines, "And they took us to jail and they read us our rights, and some guy named Bubba says he likes my tights". Googe Assar, and see if you can find the whole song. Even if you don't know the S.C.A. You'll think it's funny.

Subject: RE: Origins: Barrett's Privateers (Stan Rogers)
From: Charley Noble
Date: 03 Apr 04 - 09:46 AM

It never occured to me that "in Sherbrooke now" referred to anything other than a sorely disallusioned privateerman's nostalgia for his home port, and probably the one in Nova Scotia. That's a major point of the song. And by what flight of fancy would one want to be in or on "General Sherbrooke" now?

This discussion calls for a glass of Garnet homemade beer!

Cheerily,
Charley Noble

Subject: RE: Origins: Barrett's Privateers (Stan Rogers)
From: breezy
Date: 03 Apr 04 - 10:01 AM

How I wish I'ld never drunk it now

ssh

Subject: Fate of the Blue Dolphin
From: Amos
Date: 03 Apr 04 - 12:00 PM

As regards the fate of the Blue Dolphin, the sister ship of the Bluenose, the following is of interest:

The ship was apparently raised in 1982 and brought to Sarnia where it
was docked for repairs. It's owner was a man named Joe Pica (who
incidentally was a printer). His interest extended primarily to
working on the engine, and Bruce Kemp, who as well as being a
photographer is also a diver, did his best to hold things together as
far as the hull was concerned. Pica was an American, and didn't have
enough money to restore the ship properly. The interior was
apparently beautiful and need buffing up more than major restoration.
In it's earlier history the ship had been used by Wood's Hole Marine
Institute to do geographical underwater surveys. The ship was
apparently large enough that the docking fees were horrendous. Donna
says that really, government funding was needed to restore it and
maintain it, and they were trying to arrange for this, but it would
have meant that Pica needed to give up ownership, and in exchange
would become Captain in perpetuity. He was unwilling to do this.
According to Donna he was not a very social person, and wanted it
repaired only for his own enjoyment. In the middle of the night, he
"pulled a Hank Snow" and disappeared with the boat, leaving all the
dockage fees unpaid. He took her back down to the Detroit River. He
didn't have any diver friends there to help keep her afloat and
without maintenance the wood deteriorated quickly, and she sank again
shortly thereafter and continues to lie on the bottom of the Detroit
River. He is still seeking money to raise her, but can't afford
dockage.

The Kemps own all the original drawings of the boat. At the time Pica
took her away they had been trying to interest JB Phelan (owner of
Swiss Chalet chain) to invest in her restoration. Who knows what
condition she is in now...

Bev Walkling
Sarnia, Ontario
[e-mail]


A

Subject: RE: Origins: Barrett's Privateers (Stan Rogers)
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 03 Apr 04 - 12:56 PM

The Walrus said, in part:

(and privateering wasn't outlawed until sometime around the 1860s).

Outlawed by whom? A privateer is licensed by his sovereign government to prey on the enemy. "A letter of marque came from the King" Even as late as 1948, when Israel was formed, since it didn't have a powerful navy Israel issued letters of marque and reprisal to help with the naval function.

Who, in 1860 or so, would have international authority to "outlaw" this function? Or even today, who? My guess is, nobody.

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: Origins: Barrett's Privateers (Stan Rogers)
From: GUEST,Obie
Date: 03 Apr 04 - 06:03 PM

Privateering would be banned by peace treaties between warring countries. The privateers simply became pirates,in many cases, and continued to plunder.
Stan's songs were most often historical fiction, so some error from historical fact should be forgiven. Sherbrooke, Nova Scotia is obvious as the place even if the name was not correct in 1778.
          Obie

Subject: RE: Origins: Barrett's Privateers (Stan Rogers)
From:
Date: 05 Apr 04 - 04:53 PM

For a really good essay on Barrett's Privateers including speculations on Sherbrooke, have a look at

Tony Dalman's Essay on Barrett's Privateers

Subject: RE: Origins: Barrett's Privateers (Stan Rogers)
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 05 Apr 04 - 05:13 PM

Interesting...

But some people are thinking way too much about a song that is just damn good fun....

Subject: RE: Origins: Barrett's Privateers (Stan Rogers)
From: Santa
Date: 05 Apr 04 - 05:45 PM

Since when did thinking about something stop it being fun?

Thinking about things is pretty good fun in itself.

You got something against thinking, huh?

Subject: RE: Origins: Barrett's Privateers (Stan Rogers)
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 05 Apr 04 - 05:47 PM

Anytime -I- try it, it hurts too much!

LOL

And ya... I find that people who "overthink" tend to be an uptight, repressed lot...