Scratch Morris sides

Subject: RE: Scratch Morris sides
From: Sttaw Legend
Date: 10 Sep 04 - 07:26 AM

It's really good to see everyone enjoying themselves, having fun doing what they want to do.

Subject: RE: Scratch Morris sides
From: Paco Rabanne
Date: 10 Sep 04 - 07:30 AM

Good morning Dave, you're a nifty little mover aren't you? Fancy signing up for our new Morris team? I'm up for it.

Subject: RE: Scratch Morris sides
From: MikeofNorthumbria
Date: 10 Sep 04 - 07:33 AM

Time to sign off and bid farewell to all the friends I've met on this thread.

To Folkiedave - thanks for your support and your words of wisdom. By the way, I saw Sheffield City Morris at Warwick this summer, and was impressed by the dancing and the kit – those braces are fab. Also saw the Sheffield Giants at Whitby a couple of years ago – wow, what a spectacle! (But it must be devilish hot inside those costumes.)

To Ann Croucher – I think I understand your point of view (even if my ancestors did come from Alpha Centauri). But I'm not sure that you've fully understood mine.   I believe that free-form dancing to please oneself, AND organised dancing to please an audience, are BOTH good things.   But I also think that (usually) they don't mix well.    I love cauliflower cheese … and I love vanilla ice-cream with chocolate sauce… but not at the same time.   I don't want to pour melted cheese on your ice cream … please don't pour chocolate sauce on my cauliflower.

To Geoff the Duck – I've enjoyed your banjo playing, and Mrs Duck's singing on numerous occasions, so have no wish to fall out with you. Moreover, I have heard from several independent sources that Whitby Scratch Morris were at one time an impressive outfit, who made a valuable contribution to the Festival. However, I can only judge them on what I've seen over the past few years, and have to confess that watching their dancing has given me very little pleasure as yet.   But taste is a personal matter – maybe they're doing it right, and I'm just a nit-picking old curmudgeon. Anyhow, if they enjoy their dancing, and have an audience that enjoys watching them do it, then jolly good luck to them.   

As to the events at Whitby in 2003 - well, I was there, and saw them happen. Some members of Scratch Morris did gate-crash a spot which was supposed to be part of the official dance programme, and did refuse to move on when politely requested to do so.   And some members of Scratch Morris (or persons masquerading as such) did attempt to disrupt the parade. Some of them did physically harass members of one particular team (against whom they seemed to have a grudge). This could quite easily have caused an accident.   Now it may be that these trouble-makers were not 'proper' members of Scratch Morris at all (it's difficult to tell when the team doesn't have a recognisable kit of its own). Nevertheless, immediately after the parade ended one of the most prominent figures in Scratch Morris came over and made a formal apology for their behaviour to members of the team who had been victimised. I rest my case.

With goodwill to all, and malice towards none, farewell and Wassail!

Mike Sutton: Hexham Morris Men

Subject: RE: Scratch Morris sides
From: Sttaw Legend
Date: 10 Sep 04 - 07:35 AM

I've got the figure for it, and could make a tankard from an old fairy liquid bottle, count me in Ted

Subject: RE: Scratch Morris sides
From: Mrs.Duck
Date: 10 Sep 04 - 01:21 PM

Sorry Mike but we were there too and at no time did the Scratch gatecrash anything as they were part of the official parade and also part of the official dancing at the bandstand as they have been for the past 20 or more years. There is often light hearted banter between dance sides and I saw nothing that was more than this or could at anytime have caused an accident. As to recognizable kit - the Scratch all wear the same kit on Friday as t shirts are printed for the purpose. The one exception to this is Geoff but then noone would recognize him in a t shirt :0)

Subject: RE: Scratch Morris sides
From: GUEST,Roger Kennington
Date: 11 Sep 04 - 07:44 AM

Just returned from a week away to pick up on this debate. I was the author of the original letter to the Fed and Ring although as I made clear I was encouraged to write by members of other sides and festival organisers. My opinions are clear in the original letter so I needn't reiterate them.. although I suggest that some of the later contribitors go back and have another look.

Regarding the principle of whether informal teams should dance.. that is entirely a matter of opinion. Mine is that it is fine as long as they put on a decent show in kit and do not disrupt the official proceedings.

As far as Scratch Morris at Whitby are concerned I think Geoff's and Les' memories are failing them. I did not see the coffin incident myself but here are a few facts which I observed first hand.

Fact one: In 1999 they pushed themselves into the grand finale photograph at the Bandstand. This was meant to be the cover photograph of the next year's milleniuem programme. I know for a fact that the dance organiser (R.Mc) was absolutely furious about this.

Fact two: At least twice Scratch Morris have been dancing at official venues and run over into the time when the booked sides should be dancing (if it has happened to us twice then presumably they have done it to other teams also).

Fact three: in the parade in 2003 Scratch Morris ran ahead of the parade, cut through the Ship pub and tried to barge into the parade in front of us. When we refused to let them in one member of Scratch attempted to trip up one member of our team (BB).

Fact four: at the end of the parade they were specifically told not to dance in the finale by the dance coordinator (RU) but continued to do so. This not only upset her but angered a number of members of other teams (specifically Barley Break and Rivington). A former dance coordinator (SA) remonstrated with Scratch's ringleader (JMc) who then went round the back of the Bandstand apologising to all the teams.

Again it is clearly a matter of opinion at to whether dancing in shorts, cardboard hats and using balloons is a good thing or not. But willfully disrupting the efforts of others teams and the organiser is not.

I see some of these folks at the Sheffied Carols. Can I make a suggestion. We'll all take some red noses this year. Just as Will Noble gets up to sing the Mistletoe Bough I'll nod. We'll all whip the noses on and break into Rudolph the Red Nosed Reindeer. All in favour say 'aye'.

Yours with bells on and proud of it

Roger Kennington
Hexham Morrismen

Subject: RE: Scratch Morris sides
From: Les from Hull
Date: 11 Sep 04 - 01:14 PM

I'm sorry to hear about your sense of humour by-pass operation, Rog. I hope it can be soon put right again. You'll appreciate that you've upset a lot of people by publishing your article like this without having the courtesy to speak with us.

Did anyone explain to Scratch Morris about the Millenium photograph? Hm, I thought not.

Whenever Scratch Morris has shared a dance site with an 'official' side, we've reached an arrangement with the sides dancing there. I've never seen an 'official' side who have danced after us wait for the crowd we collected to diperse so that they can gather an 'official' crowd.

So one of Scratch Morris attempted to trip one of your team. If this is the case I apologise unreservedly. But the way it came out in your acticle it seems it was one of our main occupations. You said 'they' and 'dancers'.

You might have an objection to cardboard hats, but was there any need to jump up and down on one in the Tap and Spile long after the dancing was over? It was you wasn't it?

One thing I will not apologise about. Scratch Morris gives an opportunity for members of other sides, or dancers and musicians of sides which have disbanded, to go out and dance and play and be entertaining. And they can be joined by other musicians who don't play Cotswold so often to play for them. And hopefully this may encourage people to join an established side. Who knows?

The next time that Whitby Scratch Morris upset you in some way, come and have a word. Don't let your anger rule you.

Les Ward

Subject: RE: Scratch Morris sides
From: Mrs.Duck
Date: 11 Sep 04 - 01:24 PM

Well said, Les! In my few years with the Scratch Morris (band) there have been a number of times when 'official' sides have arrived as we are finishing a set and have been only to happy to wait a moment or two and have on numerous occasions invited the Scratch to remain and join them. Only on one occasion to my knowledge has there been an objection and this was by someone who walked into the middle of the Scratch dancing and pointed to his watch saying loudly 'there's an official dance spot here in two minutes'! I don't know who that was - perhaps you do!

Subject: RE: Scratch Morris sides
From: GUEST,Peter from Essex
Date: 11 Sep 04 - 04:47 PM

Having read both sides in this thread the words "pot" and "kettle" come to mind.

Subject: RE: Scratch Morris sides
From: GUEST,Flabber from Gasted
Date: 12 Sep 04 - 02:11 AM

Having read through the thread I think their's a touch of jealousy towards the Scratch Morris teams for some reason, maybe they are having more fun, heaven forbid. Please correct me if I've come to the wrong conclusion, I'm merely an observer in this interesting debate.

Subject: RE: Scratch Morris sides
From: GUEST,Roger Kennington
Date: 12 Sep 04 - 09:12 AM

I think it is regrettable that this stuff actually got on to the web from an in house newsletter discussion. I had no part in that and was not consulted. As we know from work, e mail diplomacy can become unnecessarily intemperate. Can I just assure folks that our sense of humour is still well intact but stuff that week was way out of order. It was taken up with the perceived leader of Scratch Morris in the manner described and he subsequently apologised to all the dance teams (not just us). I have previously had perfectly amicable discussions with friends in Scratch Morris and no doubt will do so in future.

I have no doubt that these discussions will continue hopefully over a pint somewhere. In the meantime I am happy to respond to private e mails (see the original article or via our website) or phone calls. Certainly no more comments from me in this my first foray into any online chat room.

Cheers

Roger K

Subject: RE: Scratch Morris sides
From: Mrs.Duck
Date: 12 Sep 04 - 09:23 AM

I agree Roger this would have been far best left to private debate over a pint or three. Let's not let it spoil any future events.

Subject: RE: Scratch Morris sides
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Sep 04 - 09:34 AM

I think they've decided allready on future events, Scratch Morris and the like aren't in them! not up to scratch, not as good as the "professionals"!!

Subject: RE: Scratch Morris sides
From: selby
Date: 12 Sep 04 - 09:52 AM

Roger
Please continue to discuss this issue, this as far as I and many others are concerned is what mudcat is about, discusion!!!!!
To continue with the discussion, as I remember it many years ago any morris man whose side was not dancing at whitby brought his kit and danced with the scratch in his sides kit but still wore his sides kit with pride, this was a colurful and proffesional experiance. As I percive it now the ethos of the scratch side has changed in so much as the individuals do not dance in their sides kit but in "civvys" (some collectors would argue that this is the correct way)with a scratch T shirt. The question to the scratch people is, should the side go back to what I believe was the origanal concept of dancing in your sides kit?
Keith

Subject: RE: Scratch Morris sides
From: Les from Hull
Date: 12 Sep 04 - 10:11 AM

Keith - that's a very valid statement. I too remember when dancers danced in their own side's kit, and indeed it was a very colourful experience. It also reminded other sides and the general public that our dancers were not just a crowd scraped together from the streets. I'm not sure how many of our regular dancers have kit but I also wish they'd wear it.

On the Friday we appear in matching Tshirts that we ordered and paid for on the Monday. These have a humourous theme, for instance the top hats that received such a bad press were related to Martin Scorcese's film Gangs of New York, which to us became Martin Scoresby's film Gangs of Whitby. Most of our dancers now wear Scratch shirts from a previous year, but to people looking from a distance just look like any other Tshirts.

It's probably not so important for musicians, and very few of L'Orchestre Super Scratch are Cotswold musicians (or even musicians!) so we just turn up in summat colourful until we Tshirt up on the Friday.

Subject: RE: Scratch Morris sides
From: GUEST,Fritha!
Date: 12 Sep 04 - 03:37 PM

Well i have been going to Whitby Folk Week since '91 since i was born that is! This meaning i am one of the few "young" folkies. People are always complaining about there not being enough young people being involved or even knowing about folk. Scratch Morris is a good way of getting those much needed young people involved, it gives them something fun to watch. Morris is fine yeh it's some odd but normal part of my life but it get's so boring (no offence meant) and so Scratch Morris uplifts it a bit and it's a laugh. It's what young people want to see not middle aged men jumping about with hankies boring people we want to see some fun. SO they shouldn't have "gate crashed" but who cares since when were folk festivals so uptight. Let people get involved. As long as they consult some one on the management team that's all that really matters if they're hopeless well good for them it's given us something to laugh at and it shows anyone can do it, whether they're good or not they've shown bravery and courage and guts which is more than a lot of us! I danced with a well known clog team (the Newcastle Cloggies) since i could stand up and there were many festivals they would perform at when there were loads of them but all of a sudden people left for one reason or another and they didnt perform. I currently dance with a rapper team at school. We're taught by Ricky Forster of the High Spen Blue Diamonds, the world of rapper owes an awful lot to him and yet my team are still not that great but we go out and perform when ever we can. We've danced at the festival in Hexham for young people for the last 2 years. This year we totally mucked our first spot up but has that stopped us... has it hell we're just as strong now if not stronger, we got back into the step prefectly fine and then carried on from there in the same spot we lost a pair of glasses, a badge and a sash but our Tommy got them out of the way. After the dance people came up to us including David Oliver who was playing for us and they all commented on how good we were by carrying on a lot of people at tha point would just have ran off stage but no not us we carried on and thats what made the show and my day just knowing we could do that. I have been doing rapper since i was 3 and so i knew i would manage if we went wrong however 2 members of the team had only been dancing a month and they still did it. My point is that whether your good or not get out there and do your thing. It shows what a good performer you are and it entertains people!

Subject: RE: Scratch Morris sides
From: Mrs.Duck
Date: 12 Sep 04 - 03:49 PM

I think the Whitby Scratch have a long future to match their long past. They do ensure that the dancing is good - they couldn't get away with the fooling if it wasn't! As to wearing of kit - well I don't think it makes that much difference and since Geoff doesn't have one anyway he wouldn't look any different (probably a little LESS colourful if in a kit!!!) Just a small point - if Scratch were told or asked not to dance at the bandstand last year it was not passed on to the dancers. They have been part of the parade and dancing at the bandstand for over 20 years! I just hope this will all end amicably and everyone can enjoy the festivals in their own way without unpleasantness on anyones part.

Subject: RE: Scratch Morris sides
From: Folkiedave
Date: 12 Sep 04 - 05:53 PM

I did promise myself not to contribute to this thread but then I came across this - talking about Sidmouth...........

There's always a scratch team here that just dances, who don't practice together, just meet for the week. And I think it's the worst damage you can do to Morris dancing. It's the end of the day, it's ten o'clock, they've all had a few drinks, they think it's great, they're having a lovely time - and I'm sure they are - but it doesn't look spectacular or impressive or even fun. It just looks a mess, and I think that's the worst aspect of Morris dancing, and that's what I would hope people deal with. 'Cause I just find it very upsetting. It's unworthy of the art.

Written by John Kirkpatrick.

And since "sense of humour by-pass" keeps getting mentioned perhaps our website might convince people otherwise.....

http://www.citymorris.f9.co.uk/

Best regards,

Dave Eyre

Subject: RE: Scratch Morris sides
From: Wyrd Sister
Date: 12 Sep 04 - 07:51 PM

Is there any way of the originator of this saying "Discussion, great, but now thanks, enough"? I'm beginning to understand how Pandora must have felt with the box already!
Talking of boxes, I'll now have my say, which perforce is related to the Whitby end of the proceedings as I don't have the first-hand experience of other scratch sides.

As a fairly new (i.e. the last seven years or so) Scratch watcher/follower/devotee/participant in various order, I am beginning to suspect I must be one of those who have instigated or accelerated its perceived downward trend - not asking for sympathy or contradiction or blame here, just having my say.

I was around for the coffin incident. Whitby Scratch has been known to process to the chant "Bring out your dead!", which I have always interpreted as a self-deprecating appeal for new members. On this particular occasion we were doing so when by pure serendipity this Goth guy walks out of a shop with his mate and a coffin. They explained they were taking it for a walk around Whitby as they did on occasion. It was suggested their walk should coincide with ours, but somehow they disappeared leaving the coffin behind. Given the death/ resurrection links of folk (in some interpretations) and the Friday being the end of the festival and all, it did kind of make sense at the time. If anyone was offended it was not stated openly. If anyone should have been offended it was Geoff and Mrs Duck, since I think it was their marriage year. (Comments noted, Geoff) In later years it didn't seem such a good idea. After all, it was so last millennium, deah! (By the way, another year some builder lobbed a dead pigeon at us. We laughed, and moved on.)

The parade - as long as I have known, it has been the tradition for Whitby Scratch to divert through the Ship. I repeat Les's apology if anyone felt they were, or were in danger of being tripped.
The bandstand - 2003 theme: "Gangs of Whitby". And I know there were several temporary members there that day who perhaps didn't have the long-standing experience, understanding and forethought which surprisingly does go into Whitby Scratch. Incidentally, I think the term 'Scratch's ringleader (JMc)' used above is not the most flattering, suitable or accurate.

The photo - Mrs Duck I think it was who answered the point about the Millennium photo.

Being recognisable - I know its Folk Week, but how MANY men of a certain age are there walking round Whitby in faded T-shirts, shorts and BELLS?

Having fun - I'm all for it. The Morris Ring thinks it's fun to have little do's with consenting males in private. So I'm told, as a member of the other half I have to go by hearsay. I don't mind that.
Members of the public enjoy watching Scratch, and laugh a lot. They enjoy listening, and laugh some more. Other members of the public find it not at all amusing and move on. Whether these separate audiences react in the same way to booked teams, I cannot tell.

Participation - new musicians are given confidence then go off and continue during the year in other guises. Obviously, so do the dancers, but they are not 'new' in the same respect, as all are accomplished dancers in their own right.
I fear I may be becoming tedious now but I still have a couple of points to make.

Roger - I apologise if I have offended you by widening the number of participants in the discussion. 'In-house newsletter' to Fed and Ring covers most dance teams in this country, but often bypass most dancers and musicians. It was because so many people I tried to discuss this with had not seen the letter I stuck it on in full, not wanting to precis, misquote or anything else which could have misinterpreted what you said.

Mudcatters - I am a little disappointed that Geoff and Les and Jane have have been left to respond when many more of you have close knowledge of Whitby Scratch.
Fritha - good on yer, kid! Stick with it, even through those tricky years when you may not wish to perform in your local area.

Another word to Roger. You doubtless have seen some of the same faces at the carols. I've seen yours there sometimes. I'm not sure how Will Noble crept into this thread, but I'll have my red nose ready for when you give the nod! Who knows, maybe that will be absorbed into the tradition.

SHOUTY BIT! PLEASE, I GENUINELY WANT DISCUSSION, NOT RANCOUR!!!!!
(Five exclamation marks - please refer to Pratchett's 'Masquerade' if you don't appreciate the significance.)

Finally, it was through Whitby Scratch that I came to know of Mudcat. Thanks, guys!

Subject: RE: Scratch Morris sides
From: GUEST,Dealer
Date: 13 Sep 04 - 06:56 AM

If it's only scratched I'll buy it, is it for sale?

Subject: RE: Scratch Morris sides
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Sep 04 - 07:02 AM

There was a couple of young rapper teams who danced in the showcase at Whitby, they had only been together for the week, but on the Friday night took the the pubs of Whitby and danced brilliantly.
Wes these another pair of Whitby Scratch sides.

Subject: RE: Scratch Morris sides
From: Mrs.Duck
Date: 13 Sep 04 - 10:51 AM

Whitby Scratch Morris Team is a long established team with a core membership that have danced with them for many years. Yes, they do invite new people to join but there are many who never miss barring injury (even our wedding didn't stop Geoff). It was mainly for this reason that the wearing of 'other sides kit' was abolished (at least ten years ago)in favour of a more casual uniform. Geoff describes it as a 'seaside kit' since the main participants tend to sport shorts t-shirts and bells. It is a long time since they could be described as waifs and strays and dance together with as much if not more precision than many 'kitted' sides.