'O Brother Where Art Thou'!!

Subject: 'O Brother Where Art Thou'!!
From: GUEST,Heely
Date: 28 Feb 02 - 12:13 PM

Congratulation to all Folk, Blues, and Bluegrass Musicians who contributed to the 5 , 2002 Grammy Awards to the film "O Brother Where Art Thou". It is a fabulous movie, and a real boost to all folk music.

Here are the threads that have been started on this film (oldest first):
1. O Brother, Where Art Thou
2. Lyr Req: o brother
3. Lyr Req: O' Brother, 'rocky candy mountains'
4. New Film, Oh Brother, Where Art Thou?
5. Oh brother where art thou ?
6. O Brother, where, etc.:Soundtrack/conc.
7. Lyr Req: o, brother where art thou soundtrack
8. I've just seen O Brother Where Art Thou
9. O Brother vs. Morons
10. BS: OH BROTHER VIDEO
11. 'Oh Brother' on stage
12. Oh Brother...
13. BS: o brother, where art thou
14. O Brother, Where Art Thou Video
15. 'O Brother Where Art Thou'!!
And that doesn’t include the threads about individual songs in the film!
--JoeClone, 28-Feb-01.

Subject: RE: 'O Brother Where Art Thou'!!
From: wysiwyg
Date: 28 Feb 02 - 12:14 PM

Songcatcher wasn't bad, too.

~Susan

Here are the threads that have been started on this film (oldest first):
1. The Songcatcher
2. BS: SONGCATCHER
3. BS: Anyone seen 'Songcatcher'?
4. Songcatcher
5. Appalachian Music Fans:Songcatcher comin
6. Songcatcher-See the Movie
7. BS: Songcatcher
8. Songcatcher Review Requested
9. BS: Great new film: 'Songcatcher'
10. Songcatcher FJ Child film - info?
11. BS: Snogcatcher
12. BS: We saw the boom mic in Songcatcher!!!
13. Help: Anyone Up For 'Songcatcher' on Paltalk?
--JoeClone, 28-Feb-01.

Subject: RE: 'O Brother Where Art Thou'!!
From: Steve Latimer
Date: 28 Feb 02 - 12:23 PM

'Spaw???

Subject: RE: 'O Brother Where Art Thou'!!
From: gnu
Date: 28 Feb 02 - 12:26 PM

Songcatcher ? What was that about ?

Subject: RE: 'O Brother Where Art Thou'!!
From: GUEST,JohnB
Date: 28 Feb 02 - 12:40 PM

I was at a session last Sunday, the organizer happened to mention that he had seen this really good movie "Song Catcher". I had to look around to see if "Spaw" was about to enter the room, ranting and raving. Then I thought no this isn't Mudcat is it. JohnB

Subject: RE: 'O Brother Where Art Thou'!!
From: GUEST
Date: 28 Feb 02 - 12:41 PM

Best continued in this thread I think

Subject: RE: 'O Brother Where Art Thou'!!
From: UB Ed
Date: 28 Feb 02 - 12:53 PM

Working at the top of her form, writer/director Maggie Greenwald has crafted a richly textured, new American story with "Songcatcher." A movie that reveals the discovery of some of this country's most treasured cultural foundations, "Songcatcher" also interweaves three love stories and, with precise attention to period detail, creates an intimate yet hardly utopian community in the rugged mountains of Appalachia.

It is 1907, and doctor of musicology Lily Penleric (Janet McTeer) escapes her stifling career in the male-dominated world of academia, taking a trip into the mountains to visit her sister (Jane Adams), who runs a rural school. There she discovers the roots of what is today known as country music, and as she goes about documenting her discovery a whole world is opened up to her, and to us.

McTeer gives a tremendous performance as Penleric, and Aidan Quinn and Pat Carroll deliver memorable turns as fiercely independent - and fiercely proud -- mountain people. Seekers of new talent should keep an eye out for 13-year-old Emmy Rossum, who makes an understated, indelible debut. One of the most significant contributors to "Songcatcher" appears off-screen: musician and composer David Mansfield's vast knowledge of traditional American music informs just about everything we hear in the film, from ballads to bluegrass to Mansfield's own hauntingly romantic score. "Songcatcher" is produced by Ellen Rigas Venetis and Richard Miller.

Subject: RE: 'O Brother Where Art Thou'!!
From: bflat
Date: 28 Feb 02 - 12:59 PM

Netscape.com has a poll on their home page to determine the support for O Brother...etc. as album of the year. The tide is against it approx 62%. I voted in support as this is the most exposure of late that this genre has garnered. Why don't you vote too! And, I won't suggest how because I believe in freedom of choice.

Ellen

Subject: RE: 'O Brother Where Art Thou'!!
From: ChanteyMatt
Date: 28 Feb 02 - 01:08 PM

I just watched "Songcatcher" last night. I was quite impressed. I think that the lack of known box office stars is what kept it from getting more recognition.

Subject: RE: 'O Brother Where Art Thou'!!
From: catspaw49
Date: 28 Feb 02 - 01:16 PM

Please see the other 10 "Songcatcher" threads.........When I finally saw it I was less than impressed. Very poor writing and an additional manufactured story line where none was needed.

Spaw

Subject: RE: 'O Brother Where Art Thou'!!
From: Steve Latimer
Date: 28 Feb 02 - 01:22 PM

Thought we might see you 'Spaw. I haven't seen Songcatcher yet, but I do plan on seeing it.

So, back to O Brother. I go the soundtrack, I'm not nuts about it. I think that could be because I've heard a lot of the originals. I think that it's great that's introduced millions of people to Old time Music, but I haven't listened to it more than a couple of times.

Give me the Nitty Gritty Dirt Band's "Will The Circle Be Unbroken" any time over O Brother.

Subject: RE: 'O Brother Where Art Thou'!!
From: Sam Pirt
Date: 28 Feb 02 - 01:40 PM

O'Brother info....

Why not buy the album, its excellent and at the moment you can get it from Woolworths for £6.99, wow!!!!!!

Cheers, Sam

Subject: RE: 'O Brother Where Art Thou'!!
From: GUEST,lil' VanBone
Date: 28 Feb 02 - 01:47 PM

Well it may not be the absolute best of folk, but I think it's pretty good, and it's always a kick when I heard it on the radio... Highly publicized, well acclaimed traditional folk music? Who woulda thunk it? Unfortunately it's a bit more expensive here in the states.

Subject: RE: 'O Brother Where Art Thou'!!
From: Steve Latimer
Date: 28 Feb 02 - 02:20 PM

I meant to mention that so much of the Soundtrack revolves around The Stanley Brothers' "Man Of Constant Sorrow".

Now, I'm a big fan of The Stanleys, but I think somebody must have slipped something in his tea for him to be involved in this version of "Man Of Constant Sorrow".

Download MP3

Subject: RE: 'O Brother Where Art Thou'!!
From: Mrrzy
Date: 28 Feb 02 - 02:46 PM

The sight of George Clooney getting sucked out of that train was worth the whole thing. I find myself not recalling anything of the music!

Subject: RE: 'O Brother Where Art Thou'!!
From: Les from Hull
Date: 28 Feb 02 - 02:49 PM

We loved this film - I've got it on DVD. And it's much easier for a Brit to understand with the sub-titles!

Subject: RE: 'O Brother Where Art Thou'!!
From: Scabby Douglas
Date: 28 Feb 02 - 04:42 PM

Les... I'll have some of what you were smoking..

someone from HULL criticising anyone else's accent???

Cheers

Steven

Subject: RE: 'O Brother Where Art Thou'!!
From: Les from Hull
Date: 28 Feb 02 - 04:45 PM

Or Nor! I just sed it were ard to understand.

Subject: RE: 'O Brother Where Art Thou'!!
From: Dicho (Frank Staplin)
Date: 28 Feb 02 - 05:43 PM

Amazon sent out Spam. Here are some of their comments.
The Awards- "Lost Highway Grammy Awards."
"The amazing Stanley is clearly the spiritual leader of the project and its ensuing cottage industry."

Referring to another album; Alison Krause and Union Station- "perfect example of how Krause and crew pretty up bluegrass, sanding down the edges and delivering a tasteful, restrained ballad. (Let us now all puke).

Subject: RE: 'O Brother Where Art Thou'!!
From: DougR
Date: 28 Feb 02 - 05:55 PM

I wasn't going to do it, but I gotta. I go with Spaw on "Songcatcher." Weak writing, weak story, weak movie ...I though.

DougR

Subject: RE: 'O Brother Where Art Thou'!!
From: Lepus Rex
Date: 28 Feb 02 - 06:16 PM

Hmm. One thing bothers me about OB,WAT? winning Best Album, though: Even more people will now buy the soundtrack (which is good), but thanks to the idiotic liner notes, most of them will go through life thinking that the Tommy Johnson character played by Chris Thomas King was a thinly-disguised Robert Johnson (which sucks). Who in the Hell is Robert K. Oermann (writer of the liner notes), and why doesn't he know who Tommy Johnson was? Grr. :)

---Lepus Rex

Subject: RE: 'O Brother Where Art Thou'!!
From: DougR
Date: 28 Feb 02 - 11:09 PM

But then, Lepus Rex, there is also the possiblility that most of the people will just listen to the music and not give a damn who Robert Johnson was. Right?

DougR

Subject: RE: 'O Brother Where Art Thou'!!
From: JudyR
Date: 01 Mar 02 - 01:58 AM

Hmmm-- I didn't read the liner notes; don't have the album, just have a video of "Down From the Mountain" that DharmaBum so kindly sent me. Robert K. Ooermann is (or was) the top critic of the Tennessean for years and years, and before that, worked at the Country Music Foundation. Knowledgeable guy -- met him on a few occasions. Just so you know -- he does know a lot about country, folk and blues, so whatever he slipped up on -- pretty incredible.

I don't know what is it with me -- I just don't care for Alison Kraus. Her voice lacks grit to me (I realize that's the style). I like a little more color and character in my voices. Much the same way some people take issue with Joan Baez's singing, I guess, and say they prefer something a little less bland.

Subject: RE: 'O Brother Where Art Thou'!!
From: Hrothgar
Date: 01 Mar 02 - 02:24 AM

Both "Songcatcher" and "O Brother" are not up there with the greatest of movies, but I can tolerate a fair bit of rubbish for the music.

I've only bothered going to the movies five times in the last fifteen years, and four of those times were these two - twice each!

Subject: RE: 'O Brother Where Art Thou'!!
From: GUEST
Date: 01 Mar 02 - 11:06 PM

Sam,

That sounds like a good deal, but I've been banned from Woolworth's. I'm not sure if it's just the one store or the whole chain.

Subject: RE: 'O Brother Where Art Thou'!!
From: Coyote Breath
Date: 02 Mar 02 - 12:51 AM

naw it's Woolsworth, at least in Mississippi.

I love the movie because it is so nuts. I watch it in the context of it being a Coen brothers film. I love the parody of Kirk Douglas (as Ulysses) which occasionally shines through Clooney's delivery. The music is good. But I could have done without the marching chorus during O Death. I watch it also as a funny romp with echoes of Wizard of Oz, Bonny and Clyde and other off hand references to film and story.

CB

Subject: RE: 'O Brother Where Art Thou'!!
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 02 Mar 02 - 10:17 AM

Am I the only one that felt that the movie was insulting to country musicians--something on a par with Hee Haw?

Subject: RE: 'O Brother Where Art Thou'!!
From: GUEST,MichaelAnthony
Date: 02 Mar 02 - 12:54 PM

Yes, the context the O Death song was used in was completely inappropriate. I hate that.

Overall the movie did very good things for oldtime music, obviously, despite it's flaws.

Subject: RE: 'O Brother Where Art Thou'!!
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 02 Mar 02 - 01:09 PM

Dick Greenhaus: Insulting to country musicians? See my comment in the thread Got any clean Hillbilly jokes?.

Subject: RE: 'O Brother Where Art Thou'!!
From: Tweed
Date: 02 Mar 02 - 03:23 PM

What the heck's wrong with HeeHaw, and how was that show insultin' to country musicians (or anybody for that matter)? You need to go speak with Junior, Mr. Greenhaus. Just dial BR-549;~)

Subject: RE: 'O Brother Where Art Thou'!!
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Mar 02 - 01:23 PM

some thread creep from the other site 'What is wrong with Folk music' fits in here, and now the 'grumpbag' rears his ugly head! didn't mention 'Songcatcher' in the other thread because I doubted enough people had heard of it. But I liked it less than 'O Brother', because it had some pretense of History, and they completely fabricated. Why not just make a movie about Cecil Sharp? Instead, invent a 'character' with a similar name and go from there? What about all the people who might have learned about Cecil and Olive, and the real people they gathered from. And the Lesbian sub-plot? added what to the film? maybe turned off some people that might have been turned on to the music a bit, don't know, it didn't offend me in any way, but not necessary to move the story along, as poorly written and conceived as it was.

Subject: RE: 'O Brother Where Art Thou'!!
From: catspaw49
Date: 19 Mar 02 - 01:40 PM

Geeziz.........so the movie was good/bad or the music was or wasn't trad or country or folk or whatever..........Atleast it came close to a genre that most of us like and would like to share and GUESS WHAT???? It got people listening! It got folks listening to something they had not bothered with before and if it wasn't exactly what we think they should have heard....so what? A few of them will go out and dig deeper and want more and better and maybe even get back to the roots of the music. Many won't but at least they were exposed to it.

Damn if everytime something commercial doesn't break through to the "unwashed masses" if we don't sit around and kick the crap out of it for a plethora of reasons and then kick back and complain that folk or whatever is declining. We kick hell out of the Kingston Trio for the same reason and though they aren't folk to me anymore, without them a lot of us wouldn't be into folk now. PP&M....same thing. And let's kick the crap out of Eric Clapton while we're at it for bringing a lot of Blues to people who had never really listened before. And what's the deal with Hee-Haw? A lot of the country went country and a lot of Nashville musicians got work........Where's the problem?

Why does the line "Bitch if you was hung with a new rope" keep coming to mind? What the hell do you want? Yeah, I'd love a lot better exposure but any exposure beats the hell out of what is generally out there.............geeziz...............Give it a break huh?

Spaw

Subject: RE: 'O Brother Where Art Thou'!!
From: Midchuck
Date: 19 Mar 02 - 01:42 PM

Parentheticly, there was a lot of discussion of Oh, Brother on another list, and they used the OBWAT abbreviation a lot. Then someone used OBWTF. Took me a moment.

Peter.

Subject: RE: 'O Brother Where Art Thou'!!
From: GUEST,Ed
Date: 19 Mar 02 - 01:44 PM

I saw both films and have both soundtracks. I thought Ob was a very poor movie, the plot was inane, george clooney was george clooney...I just did not get the point. I enjoyed the music very much. I thought song catcher was much better both as a fil and as a soundtrack. But both have done much to further the cause of more traditional styles of music and for that they deserve much credit.

Subject: RE: 'O Brother Where Art Thou'!!
From: GUEST,Desdemona at work
Date: 19 Mar 02 - 02:51 PM

Funny, I just saw "O Brother" for the first time this past weekend; it was a hoot, and the soundtrack was great (in fact, my husband bought it some time back, but it's gone missing in the black hole that is our home....). Bluegrass has been my dad's favourite musical genre forever (he always called it "hillbilly music"), and I never hear "The Big Rock Candy Mountain" without thinking of him.

I don't think they missed one cliche in making this movie, but it was done so affectionately that you weren't laughing with these people rather than at them. Some of the actors were just too amazing---where did they FIND some of them?! I've had more than one good laugh the past couple days recalling it; well worth a re-viewing!

Subject: RE: 'O Brother Where Art Thou'!!
From: Bill D
Date: 19 Mar 02 - 05:10 PM

There are those who don't mind what Hollywood types will do to concepts like "O Brother" and "Songcatcher"...just as they don't mind stuff like "Braveheart"...(ask a Scot what he thinks of it as accurate history)....it may be entertaining, but boy, it sure is disturbing!

Subject: RE: 'O Brother Where Art Thou'!!
From: Mark Ross
Date: 19 Mar 02 - 05:10 PM

It would have been nice to see Hayfwire Mac get all those awards!

Mark Ross

Subject: RE: 'O Brother Where Art Thou'!!
From: catspaw49
Date: 19 Mar 02 - 05:18 PM

Bill, we've had plenty of those discussions about "Hollywood VS. History" and in the end, you can't learn history from a movie but you can be entertained. OBWAT is entertainment pure and simple. I didn't care for "Songcatcher" simply because it was poorly done and purported to be based on something true and as usual, the "base" was almost invisible at best allowing for some silly plot contrivances.

Spaw

Subject: RE: 'O Brother Where Art Thou'!!
From: Dicho (Frank Staplin)
Date: 19 Mar 02 - 05:47 PM

I liked the music, the re-doing of the cliches was fun, and no one made a serious statement. A grin throughout.
A movie I hated was "Amadeus," which purported to bear some relationship to history but instead was puerile fabrication. I doubt that it made anyone want to listen to Mozart. "O Brother" avoided the precious pretense of "Amadeus" and brought the music forward as entertainment. Visually, it was excellent, and some of the images will remain with me for a long time.

Subject: RE: 'O Brother Where Art Thou'!!
From: Desdemona
Date: 19 Mar 02 - 05:47 PM

I agree with Spaw; "O Brother" isn't making any attempt to pretend it's teaching anyone history, it's just a bit of fun. I certainly didn't sit down to watch it with a view to having an educational experience, any more than I expect to gain erudition from "Blackadder"!

"Braveheart" is crap because it DOES purport to be telling a "true story" when in fact it's so full of holes I'm not even going to get started, but let's just leave it at the fact that they've got him having an affair with a woman who didn't arrive in England until 6 years after his execution, a woman who would never have laid on such a person in any case, a woman who had 4 legitimate children by Edward II, including the ass-kicking Edward III, a woman who had no compunction about arranging with her lover to have a poker shoved up her husband's anus. 'Nuff said: the truth really IS better than fiction!

But I digress. "Songcatcher" was ridiculous, poorly-researched, riddled with cliches that DID NOT have their tongue in their cheek as those in "O Brother" did, and was an altogether sappy effort, in my humble opinion. The only things these two films have in common is the presence of traditional music and a locale south of the Mason-Dixon.

Subject: RE: 'O Brother Where Art Thou'!!
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 19 Mar 02 - 05:52 PM

I'd never heard of George Clooney till I saw the film. I had to wait till the end credits, wondering what the name might be of that bloke who looked a bit like Clark Gable.

I always sit through the end credits, because often those are the bits with the best music. Around me the cinema empties while they all rush for the exit, and the ushers wait to come in and clean up the place. I don't understand the rush.

People do seem to worry an awful lot about whether a fictional film is accurate. How can something that lasts a couple of hours be accurate when it's telling a story about something that happens over the course of days or weeks or years? Is it true, that's what matters, and truth isn't about accuracy on the factual details.

And why on earth should a movie that throws in a few joking references to the Odyssey be slagged off for not sticking closer to Homer. I mean, The Odyssey isn't exactly a factual account of anything.

Subject: RE: 'O Brother Where Art Thou'!!
From: SDShad
Date: 19 Mar 02 - 06:08 PM

Bill D, you're making the erroneous assumption that Joel and Ethan Coen are "Hollywood types"--which in fact they decidedly are not--and thereby hauling into play a whole lot of unfounded assumptions about their motivations, intentions, and meaning in making "O Brother." Find out a little bit about them (and, more importantly, their work) before making such blanket assumptions.

Chris

Subject: RE: 'O Brother Where Art Thou'!!
From: Desdemona
Date: 19 Mar 02 - 06:51 PM

I always sit through the credits as well; tyhey play songs in their entirety, and I like to see where things were filmed, who this or that actor was, etc. Everyone dashes for the door, and they look at you, still sitting there, as if you're rather odd......!

Subject: RE: 'O Brother Where Art Thou'!!
From: Kim C
Date: 19 Mar 02 - 06:55 PM

O Brother is a fun, fun movie. You'd have to be a real stick in the mud not to like at least one little thing about it, even if you didn't like the movie as a whole.

Mister and I liked Songcatcher all right. I didn't care much for the snooty professor, though.

Subject: RE: 'O Brother Where Art Thou'!!
From: Steve Latimer
Date: 19 Mar 02 - 10:15 PM

My favourite music from the Coen Brothers is the Banjo that runs through Raising Arizona. I'm glad that I sat through the credits for that as the played a high speed banjo medley that included "Ode To Joy". I thought it was really neat. Having said that I sat through the credits I must admit that I can't remember who was doing the pickin'. Anybody?

Subject: RE: 'O Brother Where Art Thou'!!
From: Dicho (Frank Staplin)
Date: 19 Mar 02 - 11:43 PM

Raising Arizona: Music and lyrics, Pete Seegar and Charlie Monroe. Musical Score, Carter Burwell. Bios and details of Coen productions: Coens

Subject: RE: 'O Brother Where Art Thou'!!
From: Dicho (Frank Staplin)
Date: 19 Mar 02 - 11:48 PM

Can't find anything wrong. Site is http://www.d.umn.edu/~bjohns33/coens.html. It can easily be found in Google.

Subject: RE: 'O Brother Where Art Thou'!!
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Mar 02 - 11:57 PM

SDShad makes a good point about the Coen brothers. Seek out their films, if you enjoy quirky points of view you'll get it in spades.

I have a "filmography" my youngest daughter (she works for Last Gasp Publishing in San Francisco) sent me, has all the films the brothers have made except "O Brother" as it hadn't been released. The book is called "Blood Siblings". I just managed to buy a used copy of "Barton Fink". I think that I will try to get a video of all their films. You betcha! The film "O Brother" is fun entertainment. I was so pleased to hear the "old" music that it could have had Val Kilmer and Adam Sandler as Ulysses and Pete and I still would have liked it. I still say Clooney can be funny when he wants to be. His speech pattern in OBWAT was a steal of Kirk Douglas's and one of the funniest running gags I've seen in a long time.

CB

Subject: RE: 'O Brother Where Art Thou'!!
From: Kim C
Date: 20 Mar 02 - 10:14 AM

"Fargo" is one of my favorite movies. I love weird stuff like that. :-)

Subject: RE: 'O Brother Where Art Thou'!!
From: Peter T.
Date: 20 Mar 02 - 11:13 AM

I think it is pathetic that the folk community should be so needy that a film like "O Brother" (and an even bigger piece of crap, "Songcatcher") should be so lionized. "You like me, you really like me!!" (sounds of vomiting). Dick Greenhaus is right on.

I think it is a sociological phenomenon: every year or two middle class boomers have to find some special album with a slightly different sound so that they can still be cool. Buena Vista Social Club, Eric Clapton's Unplugged, O Brother... There is nothing wrong with it, as long as you can make the most of it while it lasts -- without The Sting, who would have heard of Scott Joplin? I can hardly wait for next year -- This too will pass.

yours, Peter T.