BS: Garge... kinda late fer suckin up

Subject: BS: Garge... kinda late fer suckin up eh?
From: gnu
Date: 28 Mar 06 - 05:30 PM

Huh?

Within a week of taking office, Garge said he couldn't wait to meet with the Predident of Mexico, the USA's most important trading partner. Then, he didn't even know the name of our President, a la Rick Mercer and 22 Minutes (a Canuck news parody). Then, he waits a few years, pops into Nova Scotia for two hours and screws up thanks for all the help back in "9/11".

Fucked on the beef. Fucked on the potatoes. Fucked on the softwood lumber. Fucked on the missles. Fucked on Iraq. Fuckin guy wants to extend an olive branch? Why now, Garge? Gonna actually spend a few bucks on the Katrina victims and want our help... at a good price?

You like our oil. You like our potash. You like our iron ore. You like our nickel. You like our uranium. You like our diamonds. You like our electricity....

Why don't you like us? Or, is it that Garge has no fuckin clue, that fuckin guy? Olive branch? Olive the other reindeer.... fantasy?

Of course, Canada will not gouge the Katrina victims. Never gouged any of the other natural disaster victims. Hell, after Katrina, Canuck civilians and the Canuck Navy were there before Garge.... for free.... fuckin guy!

I suppose asking for a lift on the ban of seal products is out of the fuckin question?

Subject: RE: BS: Garge... kinda late fer suckin up
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 28 Mar 06 - 05:39 PM

I thought this thread would be aboout Gargoyle...

Subject: RE: BS: Garge... kinda late fer suckin up
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 28 Mar 06 - 05:46 PM

Well, Australia got the FTA treatment mate.

We have now worked out that means F*** The Aussies...

so looks like you got the FTC treatment...

Subject: RE: BS: Garge... kinda late fer suckin up
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 28 Mar 06 - 05:54 PM

Nah, Kevin, Gargoyle just sucks, not sucks up.

Subject: RE: BS: Garge... kinda late fer suckin up
From: michaelr
Date: 28 Mar 06 - 06:14 PM

How about a ban on baby seal hunting, Canada?

Subject: RE: BS: Garge... kinda late fer suckin up
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 28 Mar 06 - 06:23 PM

You can't really call that stuff "hunting". There has to be more to "hunting" then going up to an infant lying there on the ice and clubbing it to death.

Subject: RE: BS: Garge... kinda late fer suckin up
From: bobad
Date: 28 Mar 06 - 06:33 PM

Yeah, like Chaney potting farm raised quail.

Subject: RE: BS: Garge... kinda late fer suckin up
From: bobad
Date: 28 Mar 06 - 06:36 PM

Oops Cheney, the intrepid hunter is to whom I am referring.

Subject: RE: BS: Garge... kinda late fer suckin up
From: SINSULL
Date: 28 Mar 06 - 06:54 PM

Can't get the link to work, gnu. Has baby bush opened his mouth and inserted his foot again? Sorry. We say that a lot here.

Subject: RE: BS: Garge... kinda late fer suckin up
From: frogprince
Date: 28 Mar 06 - 08:00 PM

So, Gnu, how do you feel about George Bush? :}

Subject: RE: BS: Garge... kinda late fer suckin up
From: Peace
Date: 28 Mar 06 - 08:05 PM

. . . doin' what he does best . . . .

Subject: RE: BS: Garge... kinda late fer suckin up
From: Peace
Date: 28 Mar 06 - 08:12 PM

Almost like binary--just on or off, in or out, up or down, . . . .

Subject: RE: BS: Garge... kinda late fer suckin up
From: Bob the Postman
Date: 28 Mar 06 - 08:12 PM

Foolestroupe, many Americans honestly think that by signing a free trade agreement with them we agree that the USA is free to trade any damn way it wants.

Subject: RE: BS: Garge... kinda late fer suckin up
From: GUEST,dianavan
Date: 28 Mar 06 - 11:15 PM

"How about a ban on baby seal hunting, Canada?" (michaelr)

Typical, arrogance!

How about the U.S., Britain, Japan. Italy and Australia stop killing innocent women and children in Iraq?

If you live in the outports, you kill seals so you can pay the rent and put food on the table. Its been going on for so long, its part of the culture. I may not agree with it but I can understand the seal hunt much easier than I can understand the slaughter of human beings.

Get you priorities straight.

Subject: RE: BS: Garge... kinda late fer suckin up
From: CarolC
Date: 28 Mar 06 - 11:40 PM

They don't club baby seals any more. They stopped doing that in the early 1970s.

Are people in the US willing to give up eating veal in order to stop the killing of baby lambs? Are people in the US willing to take a good hard look at their own practices when it comes to animal cruelty?

One thing you can say for wild animals that are killed in a hunt... at least they got to live out in their natural environment for a while before they are killed. The conditions animals live under in most livestock factories (in the US and elsewhere) is nothing less than appalling.

Subject: RE: BS: Garge... kinda late fer suckin up
From: Peace
Date: 28 Mar 06 - 11:48 PM

The images (photographs) here may disturb some people.

Inside some slaughter houses.

Subject: RE: BS: Garge... kinda late fer suckin up
From: heric
Date: 28 Mar 06 - 11:55 PM

Carol you keep saying that but the seal hunts are back on.
Back to a new old way of life.

"free to trade any damn way it wants" yeah that's the truth.

Subject: RE: BS: Garge... kinda late fer suckin up
From: number 6
Date: 28 Mar 06 - 11:56 PM

This is what happens to Sparky when he can't cut the grade and make anymore money at the track.

greyhound slaughter

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: Garge... kinda late fer suckin up
From: CarolC
Date: 29 Mar 06 - 12:01 AM

They hunt seals, but they don't club baby seals any more. It's against the law in Canada to club baby seals, and has been since the early 1970s. The reason I know this is because I'm married to a Newfoundlander.

Subject: RE: BS: Garge... kinda late fer suckin up
From: Desert Dancer
Date: 29 Mar 06 - 12:03 AM

"Since 1987, when Canada outlawed commercial hunting for whitecoat pups, the main focus of the hunt has been molted pups...." -- National Geographic, 2004. Additional links and resources for info can be found at the bottom of that page.

Subject: RE: BS: Garge... kinda late fer suckin up
From: heric
Date: 29 Mar 06 - 12:06 AM

Right. They have to be at least two weeks old before you can beat their little heads in.

Subject: RE: BS: Garge... kinda late fer suckin up
From: GUEST,thurg
Date: 29 Mar 06 - 12:10 AM

Let's get back to clubbing Bush (metaphorically). The seal hunt issue was beaten to smithereens recently on the Paul McCartney thread.

Subject: RE: BS: Garge... kinda late fer suckin up
From: CarolC
Date: 29 Mar 06 - 12:12 AM

When they hunt seals these days, they use high power rifles to shoot young seals that are swimming in the water.

Most Newfoundlanders believe that clubbing is a much more humane way to kill a baby seal than by shooting them. The skull is very soft when they are very young, and death is instantaneous when it is hit with a club.

Subject: RE: BS: Garge... kinda late fer suckin up
From: number 6
Date: 29 Mar 06 - 12:15 AM

A lot more humane than an air strike on a civilian populated area in Iraq ... where some child gets his leg blown off, if not killed.

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: Garge... kinda late fer suckin up
From: Peace
Date: 29 Mar 06 - 12:17 AM

Over 9 billion animals are slaughtered in the U.S. every year.

If you are worried about seals being killed in Canada, you might want to follow your conscience to the site I've linked. Interesting read. I am posting without comment.

Subject: RE: BS: Garge... kinda late fer suckin up
From: heric
Date: 29 Mar 06 - 12:31 AM

(sorry, thurg)

Subject: RE: BS: Garge... kinda late fer suckin up
From: GUEST,thurg
Date: 29 Mar 06 - 12:47 AM

heric - hmmm - do I detect a note of sarcasm?

Subject: RE: BS: Garge... kinda late fer suckin up
From: heric
Date: 29 Mar 06 - 12:54 AM

no you don't I meant it.

Subject: RE: BS: Garge... kinda late fer suckin up
From: michaelr
Date: 29 Mar 06 - 01:11 AM

So what are you saying, it's a non-issue because there may be worse things? I am as outraged as most sane, reverent people about the Iraq "war". That doesn't preclude me from noticing other wrongs.

dianavan says "It's been going on so long, it's part of the culture." Is that supposed to make it OK?

I must say I'm surprised at (what I've been thinking of as) my fellow liberal Cats. We should feel outrage about Iraq and the beef industry, but not the cruel and inhumane slaughter of infant animals in the wild?

Cheers,
Michael

Subject: RE: BS: Garge... kinda late fer suckin up
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 29 Mar 06 - 04:06 AM

to give up eating veal in order to stop the killing of baby lambs

Pedantic point: veal is from calfs, not lambs.

Subject: RE: BS: Garge... kinda late fer suckin up
From: GUEST,dianavan
Date: 29 Mar 06 - 04:11 AM

Its part of the fishery. Are you going to cry for the fish too?

Its pretty easy for urbanites who shop at Safeway to condemn the seal hunt when they know absolutely nothing about depending on hunting and fishing as a way of life. If you have a house and a job to offer, maybe you can help these outporters to relocate but to mess with another person's traditional, livelihood just doesn't seem right. I don't think these people have ever threatened you or your livelihood in any way. Its not like this is some kind of sport.   

I could never club a seal and won't wear the fur but I just don't feel the same outrage that I do about children being killed in war, or from disease or famine. I am also far more alarmed by the condition of stock animals and animals that are killed by trophy hunter.

Its a matter of priorities. Maybe seals are more important to some people. My guess is that the people who are concerned about the seal population, are people who are not living around them and have no idea how invasive seals can be. Its sort of like being overly sentimental about possum or pidgeons or rats. Baby seals just happen to be cuter than the average animal.

Subject: RE: BS: Garge... kinda late fer suckin up
From: GUEST,JTS
Date: 29 Mar 06 - 04:22 AM

michaelr

What is the Fuck is an "infant animal"? Do you eat eggs? Wear leather? Live on land that used to be animal habitat. Morally, each of those are about equal. So toss the log out of your own eye before you complain about the dust in mine.

The seals that are killed now, are killed from open boats with high powered rifles. These "infants" as you call them, hunt on their own and live with out the help and support of any adult. I wonder from you attitude if you yourself are as weaned as they. Do you think that the meat you eat grows on a tree behind the supermarket? Do you care as much about the "infant" beef in your hamburger. You do know that beef cattle are also harvested as juveniles don't you?

No one is saying you don't have a right to be outraged, if you choose to. But your priorities seem, childish, ill informed and hypocritical. Outrage over a whitecoat hunt that hasn't been practiced in thirty years and which has been illegal for 18, seems odd considering much worse outrages being committed by your own country. You'd think that Newfoundlanders were morally inferior to other people because they get their meat from the sea rather than the feedlot or the supermarket. Maybe you just want someone to piss on and you don't want to piss on yourself because you'll ruin your nice "infant" cow leather shoes.

Subject: RE: BS: Garge... kinda late fer suckin up
From: gnu
Date: 29 Mar 06 - 04:32 AM

Oops. Darn, that hurt. Oh well. Back at it. If you don't know, don't pay no nevermind.

Poor judgement to put that last sentence in the first post. Sorry.

The link did not work for some, so, here is the text, less the first sentence. I could not copy it without getting a pic in it and screwing it up. The first sentence just says that Garge is into a new word, "genuine".

*******************************************************************
Bush, in interviews before the Cancun meeting Thursday, said he wants to prove to Canadians that the United States "genuinely cares" by working to resolve tough issues like softwood lumber and plans to require new security cards at the border.


And while it's unclear exactly what he'll propose, analysts say all the goodwill boosts chances for some breakthroughs in the coming months.


"I honestly think he wants to renew the relationship with Canada and he sees the Harper government as the vehicle to do that," said Scotty Greenwood, executive director of the Canadian American Business Council.


"You've got to suspend cynicism and take him at his word. It's an enormously positive step."


And not really all that surprising, said Charles Doran, a political analyst at John Hopkins University who specializes in bilateral issues.


"He just needed a counterpart he could trust. There wasn't much ground for interaction before."


More like friction. Ties with the two previous Liberal governments were clearly strained by Iraq and Canada's decision not to join Bush's missile defence plan.


But they hit a low point with Martin's pointed criticism of American environmental policy and Liberal television ads during the election campaign that were widely viewed here as anti-American.


And while Bush made a point this week of saying he got along well with Paul Martin and Jean Chretien, it's clear he's viewing Harper as the best bet to help him with a big image problem in Canada.


"It's a vital relationship but it's also one in which there is a certain skepticism about the United States," he admitted.


"I will do my very best to find common ground and, through my relationship with the prime minister, convince the people of Canada that we genuinely care about our friends and neighbors to the north and will work to resolve different issues in an above-board way that is mutually beneficial."


In a roundtable session with journalists, he emphasized that he's not resentful about some "harsh words" that have characterized relations in the past few years, acknowledging that Canadians have every right to their own opinions.


"Part of the problem that we had was because of my decision to go into Iraq," he said.


"The government of both countries didn't agree. And I understand that. War is terrible, it's an awful thing," he said in remarks released Tuesday by the White House.


"I bear no ill will whatsoever and I understand the strategic importance of being close to our friends."


Bush's outreach to Canada comes at a low point in his presidency. He's facing record-low approval ratings, increasing anger among Americans about the Iraq war and global grumbling about a host of issues like how the U.S. treats prisoners in the war on terror.


That makes working closely on continental issues with Harper and Mexico's President Vicente Fox all the more appealing.

The three leaders will focus this week on the Security and Prosperity Partnership, an extensive accord on continental co-operation in security and economic matters.

"He very much looks forward to this trip," said White House spokesman Scott McClellan, who mistakenly referred to Harper as Martin a couple of times during Tuesday's daily briefing.

Harper's sit-down with Bush will allow him to push some of Canada's biggest pet peeves, including the softwood battle and U.S. plans to require a passport or other secure document at land crossings by the end of next year.

On Tuesday, Harper said he's not certain there will be progress on the touchy trade front and he'll vigorously defend Canada's interests, even if it means continuing litigation.

Softwood negotiations ended last summer after the U.S. refused to abide by a free-trade ruling in Canada's favour. Unofficial talks apparently were going fairly well but were stymied by the Canadian election campaign.

"We were close to getting it done at one point," said Bush, who acknowleged that the bitter battle had provoked ill feelings north of the border.

"I'd like to get the issue solved. I've told our folks that. Let's work hard to bring this issue to conclusion. . . . My strong signal is, yes, let's get this behind us."

But, said Bush, the Canada-U.S. relationship "is much deeper than softwood lumber," and he predicted there would be other trade tiffs to take its place.

"It's just very important to be in a position to have a relationship such that we can work through these problems."

Meanwhile, tourism and business groups fear a new PASS card being developed in the U.S. is too costly and will severely impede visitors and commerce.

"I'm pretty confident that if we work closely, we can develop . . . a card that can be dealt with on a scanning device," said Bush.

But he suggested that he doesn't favour the option of using enhanced driver's licences, promoted by many groups on both sides of the border.

"We have found in our own country that driver's licences aren't necessarily a secure document," he said. "Document forgery is a significant problem for our country, primarily for people coming in from the south."
********************************************************************

Genuine Garge and the olive branch. Right... and I am extra virgin.

Subject: RE: BS: Garge... kinda late fer suckin up
From: heric
Date: 29 Mar 06 - 09:01 AM

But the thing to do, rather than kick him when he's down (way down), is to stifle a smile and look for the advantages to be had in the situation. They had him portray the lumber issue as a trivial dispute among many - Maybe that can be made his (their) first real olive branch (as opposed to mere words). One thing they're right about is that forever hammering through the issues is the only option.

Subject: RE: BS: Garge... kinda late fer suckin up
From: heric
Date: 29 Mar 06 - 09:12 AM

I wonder where the terms "pet peeve" and "tiff" originated (to describe the lumber trade violations.)

Subject: RE: BS: Garge... kinda late fer suckin up
From: michaelr
Date: 29 Mar 06 - 09:29 PM

I don't think these people have ever threatened you or your livelihood in any way.

Irrelevant.

Do you think that the meat you eat grows on a tree behind the supermarket?

What an idiotic question.

a whitecoat hunt that hasn't been practiced in thirty years and which has been illegal for 18

So why is it happening now?

much worse outrages being committed by your own country

It's not my own country -- are you so stupid to think I make policy here?

Whatever.

Subject: RE: BS: Garge... kinda late fer suckin up
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Mar 06 - 09:36 PM

What about the UK being the center for childporn and female slavery?

Subject: RE: BS: Garge... kinda late fer suckin up
From: bobad
Date: 29 Mar 06 - 09:42 PM

"So why is it happening now?"

It isn't. There seems to be a lack of information as to the subject of the slaughter in the seal hunt. Those dark-eyed, white-coated cuties that the celeb protesters are so fond of posing with are not being dispatched, it is the seal at a later stage when the fur is coarser and mottled grey in colour that is being hunted. It's just that the younger ones make for a better photo-op.

Subject: RE: BS: Garge... kinda late fer suckin up
From: CarolC
Date: 30 Mar 06 - 12:18 AM

michaelr, it isn't happening now. Please read the thread.

Subject: RE: BS: Garge... kinda late fer suckin up
From: CarolC
Date: 30 Mar 06 - 12:24 AM

Oops. Sorry bobad. I seem to have missed your post somehow.

bobad made the critical point, though. I'm very much in favor of animal rights. But I don't approve of the way some animal rights organizations are blatantly misrepresenting what is actually happening with the seal hunt. They are using the white-coats in their fund-raising materials because white-coats are one of the best fund raising tools they've ever had. But they are being incredibly dishonest when they represent the seal hunt in that way, and I can't support people who use dishonesty as a tool, even for a cause as worthy as animal rights.

They need to find a new symbol for their fundraising efforts. Until then, they do not have my support.

Subject: RE: BS: Garge... kinda late fer suckin up
From: heric
Date: 30 Mar 06 - 12:44 AM

Carol? Carol.

You said they aren't clubbing baby seals.

They're clubbing (and shooting)two and three week old seals (after their mothers have expended the energy weaning them).

You're still doing it AND you have the audacity to take a stand for truth in advertising??

By the way, O Sensitive Ones. McGrath merely pointed out that "hunting" was an overly glamorous word for this harvesting. Do you really want to argue with that? (And I have no doubt that clubbing is faster and less painful than shooting, btw.)

Subject: RE: BS: Garge... kinda late fer suckin up
From: CarolC
Date: 30 Mar 06 - 01:04 AM

heric, please provide a source other than the animal rights organizations to document your assertion that they are still clubbing. My source of information about this is my father-in-law, who, while not infallible, does live there and is pretty up to speed on what is going on in the vicinity.

Subject: RE: BS: Garge... kinda late fer suckin up
From: heric
Date: 30 Mar 06 - 01:13 AM

Fisheries and Oceans Canada
http://www.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/seal-phoque/faq_e.htm
"Harp seals can be legally hunted once they have moulted their white coat, which occurs at about 12-14 days of age. However, they are not usually hunted until they reach the "beater" stage of development at around 25 days old. Blueback (hooded) seals moult their coat as early as 15 to 16 months of age, at which time they can be hunted. The seals hunted are self-reliant, independent animals."

Subject: RE: BS: Garge... kinda late fer suckin up
From: heric
Date: 30 Mar 06 - 01:16 AM

Oh, sorry. You asked about clubbing. Answer on the same page. (It's the predominant method in the Gulf of St. Lawrence; much rarer (but permitted) off the Coast of Newfoundland.

Subject: RE: BS: Garge... kinda late fer suckin up
From: CarolC
Date: 30 Mar 06 - 01:20 AM

Thanks.

Subject: RE: BS: Garge... kinda late fer suckin up
From: CarolC
Date: 30 Mar 06 - 01:25 AM

The animal rights organizations are still being dishonest about the white-coats. If they want my support, they need to be totally honest in their representations of what is going on. If they want to use the image of a seal as their fundraising tool, it needs to be the kind and age that is actually being hunted.

Subject: RE: BS: Garge... kinda late fer suckin up
From: GUEST,JTS
Date: 30 Mar 06 - 02:36 PM

From: michaelr
Date: 29 Mar 06 - 09:29 PM

I don't think these people have ever threatened you or your livelihood in any way.

Irrelevant.

Yet you would threaten their livelihood.

Do you think that the meat you eat grows on a tree behind the supermarket?

What an idiotic question.

I'll defer to your judgment on that one. Anyone who would use a phrase like "infant animals" in a moral argument is obviously an expert on idiocy.

a whitecoat hunt that hasn't been practiced in thirty years and which has been illegal for 18

So why is it happening now?

Thank you for so clearly demonstrating your ignorance on the matter.

much worse outrages being committed by your own country

It's not my own country -- are you so stupid to think I make policy here?

Are you so arrogant as to judge my country when you will actually be able to vote in your own when you grow up and make a difference? Afraid to piss on your own shoes? LOL

Whatever.

Ah! A verbal indication of your maturity. The last resort of the infant critic!

Subject: RE: BS: Garge... kinda late fer suckin up
From: Wolfgang
Date: 30 Mar 06 - 03:09 PM

from a site (frequently asked questions) of the Canadian Fisheries and Aquaculture Management:

6. What types of weapons are used to kill seals?

Sealers use a variety of tools to hunt seals. Ninety per cent of sealers on the ice floes on the Front (in the waters east of Newfoundland), where the majority of the hunt occurs, use firearms. Sealers in the Magdelen Islands (Gulf of St. Lawrence) and on Quebec's Lower North Shore traditionally use clubs or hakapiks. A hakapik is an efficient tool designed to kill the animal quickly and humanely. Marine Mammal Regulations state that sealers must strike the seal on the skull until it's crushed, and administer a blinking eye reflex test or manually check the skull.

Together with heric's post that point should be clear now.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: Garge... kinda late fer suckin up
From: Wolfgang
Date: 30 Mar 06 - 03:19 PM

The official FAQ page that some may want to read.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: Garge... kinda late fer suckin up
From: michaelr
Date: 30 Mar 06 - 05:45 PM

Guest, JTS -- what is your problem? Forgot to take your medication?

I was expressing my distaste for the baby seal hunt. Such a comment is no threat to anyone's livelihood.

The baby seal hunt is happening. Whitecoat or grey seems a cop-out on a technicality.

This concludes my interest in discussing the subject with you. I don't like your tone.