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Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill) From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 27 Jun 10 - 03:34 AM Hi guys! Ed T and Q were discussing this, so I just got this in, today. Ed T: "At issue is the reliance of government on the good will of industry to answer many of the questions and care for the environment...and reduce funding for government research." I got this E-mail, today..it addresses some stuff, that we've covered, verifies some others...and poses some questions. You may find it of interest. (This is a new source, and I haven't checked it all out, yet, but it sounded consistent, with other info I had received) Vol: 105 Issue: 24 - Thursday, June 24, 2010 Ensuring The Worst Case Scenario? One of the most enduring features surrounding the Gulf Oil Spill now entering its third month of belching oil from the seafloor is the fact that no matter how bad the most recent worst-case scenario speculation, the next one will be even more terrifying. The base-line measures of the crisis have steadily worsened. The estimated flow rate keeps rising. The spill is already worse than anybody could have anticipated and there remains no end in sight. According to point man Admiral Thad Allen of the US Coast Guard, the reason that BP stopped pumping mud into the well in last month's "top kill" effort was fear the effort would damage the casing and open new channels for oil to leak into the rock formations. "I think that one thing that nobody knows is the condition of the well bore from below the blowout preventer down to the actual oil field itself," Allen said last week. "We don't know if the well bore has been compromised or not." Making things worse, the admiral said, was the fact that the blowout preventer is 'leaning'. "The entire arrangement has kind of listed a little bit," he said. Bruce Bullock, director of the Maguire Energy Institute at Southern Methodist University, says one of the characteristics of the Deepwater Horizon blowout is its unpredictability. He said the deep-sea 'plumes' of oil detected by research vessels are probably not from the blowout but possibly from additional leaks caused by either the drilling or the blowout. Nobody knows how much oil is actually seeping into the Gulf. "I actually have a document that shows that BP actually believes it could go upwards of 100,000 barrels per day," Rep Ed Markey [D-Mass] said on NBC's "Meet the Press." "So, again, right from the beginning, BP was either lying or grossly incompetent. First they said it was only 1,000. Then they said it was 5,000 barrels. Now we're up to 100,000 barrels." Senator Charles Grassley [R-Ia) released a BP document entitled "Maximum Discharge Calculation." The document was published internally was based on theoretical calculations made before drilling began. That document says given the most "optimistic assumptions" about the size of the reservoir and the intensity of the pressure at depth and assuming a total loss of well control and no inhibitions on the flow, "a maximum case discharge of 162,000 barrels per day was estimated." BP recalculated after the Deepwater Horizon blew up and came up with what it called a "more reasonable" worst-case scenario of between 40,000 and 60,000 barrels per day. A 'barrel' of oil is roughly 42 gallons. About the only thing that we ARE sure of (we being the public) is that everybody is lying about it. BP is looking to mitigate the damage to its corporate image and its bottom line. Members of the Congress are looking for ways to use the oil spill to mitigate the damage to their own re-election prospects. Admiral Thad Allen is looking for ways to make it appear that the government's intervention is helping, rather than hindering efforts at both plugging the hole and cleaning up the damage. The truth is that every one of them is lying. Nobody knows how bad the spill really is or how many other leaks it may have caused. At the same time, nobody wants to admit that they don't know. Except Matt Simmons, founder of Simmons and Co. Simmons and Co. is an oil investment firm. He claims that he does know and that the news is much worse than anybody else believes. Simmons says the leak that BP is focusing on at the "riser" is not the problem. The real problem is a gaping hole at the "well head," 8 miles away. "The riser leak is a deception," says Simmons. "The hole is in the well head — it's the well bore." "When they [the research vessel Thomas Jefferson] finally got the permission to circle the three-mile radius," of the well, "once they got up wind [of the blast], within 20 minutes all the crew [of the boat] were nauseous, and several people are still in the hospital. There is benzene coming out of that stuff. If a hurricane finally blows up the Gulf, we could have millions of people die." According to Simmons, the ultimate worst-case scenario has not yet even been contemplated. "We're going to have to evacuate the Gulf States. Can you imagine evacuating 20 million people? . . . This story is 80 times worse than I thought." Only eighty times worse? Louisiana Governor Bobby Jindal sent a letter to Secretary of Defense Robert Gates asking the Defense Department for six thousand active duty military personnel to be dispatched to the Gulf to aid the Louisiana National Guard. Jindal says that the reason he needs federal troops is because the National Guard is busy preparing for just such a possible evacuation. "Currently, our Soldiers and Airmen are staging for and are engaged in the planning of the effort to evacuate and provide security and clean up for the coastal communities expected to be impacted by the oil spill." If the well isn't capped soon, the toxic gases from the well, together with the highly toxic Corexit 9500 chemical dispersant being used will eventually force the evacuation of the Gulf States. It may already be too late. Assessment: Those living in Florida are presently at the highest risk, but the danger also appears likely to spread to all Gulf Coast states east of Louisiana -- and possibly even to the entire Eastern half of the United States once hurricane season begins. The Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) has already declared the airspace over the oil spill site to be a no-fly zone until further notice. As we're already seen, various sources have indicated that local police, highway patrol, National Guard, US military and foreign troops may be involved in an operation to evacuate the Gulf Coast. Since the Deepwater Horizon first exploded, the role of the federal government has largely been confined to blaming BP for the spill, demanding reparations for the spill, but nothing to stop the spill. Had the White House mobilized every oil skimming rig in the country and accepted foreign assistance offers, much of the oil now threatening the American coastline could have been skimmed off. Seemingly inexplicably, the White House has largely taken a "hands off" approach -- apart from talking about it, that is. In short, it seems as if the White House is simply allowing the spill to proceed. The federal government shut down the dredging that was being done to create protective sand berms in the Gulf of Mexico. The berms are meant to protect the Louisiana coastline from oil. But the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Department has concerns about where the dredging is being done. The department says one area where sand is being dredged is an ecologically sensitive section of the Chandeleur Islands! So efforts to protect the entire coast from ecological destruction was ordered halted to protect one endangered section of beach. Plaquemines Parish President Billy Nungesser, who was one of the most vocal advocates of the dredging plan, sent a letter to President Barack Obama, pleading for the work to continue. "Once again, our government resource agencies, which are intended to protect us, are now leaving us vulnerable to the destruction of our coastline and marshes by the impending oil," he wrote. "Furthermore, with the threat of hurricanes or tropical storms, we are being put at an increased risk for devastation to our area from the intrusion of oil." Despite his plea, work on the sand berms halted at midnight Wednesday. Why? Since September 11, 2001 the United States has been in a state of national emergency, which means that martial law can be declared by the President at any time and for any reason. A declaration of martial law authorizes temporary rule by military authorities. Under martial law, civil rights are suspended and civilian courts are restricted or supplanted by military tribunals. Although a declaration of martial law is theoretically temporary, there are no time limits. A state of martial law, once declared, can be extended indefinitely. The forced evacuation of as many as 80 million Americans from the Gulf Coast region would indeed necessitate such a declaration. In an evacuation, the federal government would determine when and where evacuees would be moved to and for how long. Martial law would not be confined to the Gulf States -- since the evacuees would have to be relocated inland across the United States, so too would military rule. Under the provisions of martial law, the president could also order the suspension of national elections until the national emergency is over. Her's the real kicker. The only one that can declare the national emergency "over" and rescind a declaration of martial law is President Barack Hussein Obama. And suddenly, it all starts to makes sense!!!
Thanks. -Joe Offer- |
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Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill) From: Ed T Date: 27 Jun 10 - 09:03 AM GFS, IMO, quite an alarming and speculative article. If such a dark and broad conspiracy were to exist...there would not seem any point in trusting anyone about anything? |
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Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill) From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 27 Jun 10 - 11:30 AM Well, Ed....what politician do YOU trust? I find that NONE of them could have risen very far up, into the political world....BY TELLING THE TRUTH! Which ones serve the people...OVER their own interests? How many flip flop on issues, based on their re-electability? How often do their 'constituents' argue amongst themselves, to explain away elected, or aspiring to be elected politician's actions, just so they can still believe in them?...no matter how many times their hopes are dashed by them??....disappointed by them...or embarrassed by them? I think their constituents are FAR more loyal to them, than the politician to the constituents. Deceit, by its very nature is undetectable! GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill) From: Ed T Date: 27 Jun 10 - 11:40 AM "What politician do YOU trust?" That seems like another issue, and another discussion. For the theory in the article to have weight, many others, from many professions, would need to be involved and likely complacent. Is this the scenario you put forward and want is to have trust in? |
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Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill) From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 27 Jun 10 - 01:38 PM The situation is bad enough without doomsday predictions. Much of the reason for the confusion is that no one really knows the consequences of the oil volcano (I find the word spill inadequate) or how to fight it. All methods being tried are palliative and/or experimental. Intersecting the well by drilling hopefully will work, but effects still will be evident for years even if the intersect drilling is successful. Weak regulation by MMS, unnecessary fears about oil shortage (fueled by bad politics), drilling in advance of development of safe engineering technology, failure to expand substitute means of generating energy (which will take years to become important contributors), and a company(s) and investors (us!) with a cowboy attitude of damn the cautions, the pot of gold awaits, all have contributed to the catastrophe. |
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Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill) From: Ed T Date: 27 Jun 10 - 01:49 PM I have to agree with you in your last post Q. Add to that, the lack of funding for non-industry science and technology to deal with oil spills and their environmental impacts. Far too much trust is placed in industry to find solutions to problems they could and do cause. IMO, we are seeing the results of a nonsense philosophy that industry is best at writing all the rules and doing all the research to protect society, and enforce them through voluntary compliance....(that did not work too well for other sectors to enforce themselves, like the food industry) Since goverments are mostly broke....it would seem prudent for governbments to either tax industry or the end user to fund more research and technology. |
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Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill) From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 27 Jun 10 - 01:50 PM Not particularly. However, the amount of misinformation, coming from all sides SHOULD be of concern to ALL of us!. Remember, that it is our FREEDOM that has allowed America the ability to become as great as we are. One advantage that we've had, when it is fully operational is the information and intelligence pool, that causes us to be able to draw, and find solutions, for problems that we have overcome, in the past. FREEDOM of speech, and integrity, to meet the challenges, is an integral part of doing just that!..When information is tainted, for whatever reason, especially political aspirations, or agendas, and solutions are withheld, to accommodate those two things, we fall backwards. Inventions, innovations, new ideas generally does not come from bureaucrats, attempting to secure their employment, or 'move up the ladder' pushing pencils. It is the THINKERS, from ALL sectors of this society, that the answers come....not those who wish to manipulate the outcome, by binding the masses, with lies, corruption and general bullshit! Sometimes, I've disagreed with some posts on here..but in my 'thinking time', perhaps during the rest of the day, I logically consider the differences, and incorporate those into my reasoning processes, which, in turn, widens and grows. I would hope that for all of us. In my case, where I am composing large pieces of music, which incorporates a wide spectrum of emotions, and images, I find it rather helpful....as I hope mine do for you. One frustration, I've experienced, while on here, is some of the blind, non-thinking political dogmatic rhetoric, which some, willingly subscribe to, causing them to be...umm..let's say, 'less than bright'...or compassionate. That being said, may this be a reminder, may our thoughts go upward, and beneficial to creativity in ways to bring an uplifting understanding, to us..and to all those who hear it in our music, and lives Regards, GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spil From: Stringsinger Date: 27 Jun 10 - 01:59 PM It's amazing to me the arrogance and ignorance that is expounded in defense of BP not to be blamed for its "hole in the earth" and the idiocy of claiming that they know what will happen as a result of this disaster by those who sound like Tony Hayward, "Trust us, we have everything under control". Rampant corporatists and technological sociopathic behavior is being trotted out by the so-called "experts" on this thread. I don't care who worked for BP or AMOCO or any other irresponsible drilling operation, it is all denial of the most insidious sort. The claim that there was any vestige of responsibility for the safety of the drilling operations is completely without merit. Can you imagine this arrogance and ignorance being applied to the nuclear energy companies? We'll have Three Mile Islands and Chernobyls happening more frequently now since we can defend the lack of safety concerns by energy corporations. BP is the tip of the iceberg. In a sense, the corporate world has declared war on the U.S. Maybe Britain has as well, since they house BP. It is after all British Petroleum. BP apologists make a mockery of the logic that undoubtably caused this disaster. It is unregulated capitalism, a weakening of the U.S. government through the lax regulatory agencies, a limpid defense of off-shore drilling in spite of the risks it poses, an economy that relies on oil for wartime purposes to run expensive weaponry and aircraft, and a series of nutty "experts" who claim to know something about the assault on the American Gulf region. The results speak for themselves. The American Gulf Coast has been ruined, probably irrevocably and the lives of the inhabitants damaged for a long time. This has become the American way of life where the lives of innocent people in foreign countries are taken for the benefit of corporate capitalism but also the destruction of lives in our own country. The politicians in our Senate and House have been bought and sold. Also, the corporation have been the Frankenstein Monster created by none other than Supreme Court Justice John Roberts in his ruling re: Citizens United where he has declared this Monster a "person" with privileges equal (or some cases more equal) to an American citizen. It all fits into a neat picture of corruption, dysfunction, sociopathy and a broken system of government. It's a tacit acceptance of Gordon Greco's pronouncement, "Greed is good". What has to be done is resistance against the corporate world, the dysfunction of equivocating politicians, the refusal to accept the rhetoric of the BP's of the world and organizing on the grass roots level to create an alternate universe. I don't trust apologists for BP or any of the rhetoric on this thread by those who claim to be "experts". They are part of the problem. Instead we must face the destructive reality that this hubris, wonkishness and so-called expertise has caused the Gulf Disaster and can lead to other tragedies and organize to resist them. I think that the communities in the Gulf have already realized that this is their only way out of this quagmire. |
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Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill) From: Ed T Date: 27 Jun 10 - 03:22 PM I recall wise lyrics of Bob Dylan, who (IMO) got it right in his song: "But you're gonna have to serve somebody, yes indeed You're gonna have to serve somebody, It may be the devil, or it may be the Lord But, you're gonna have to serve somebody" I kind'a know whose interests the oil industry serves, the corporate folks and its shareholders. But, the real question is, whose interests are governments serving at any particular time (up front, and behind the scenes), that of society, local small industry and the environment, or the folks who fund the election of their party? |
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Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill) From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 28 Jun 10 - 02:02 AM Ed T: "But, the real question is, whose interests are governments serving at any particular time (up front, and behind the scenes), that of society, local small industry and the environment, or the folks who fund the election of their party?" Perhaps, the ones who bribe them the best...regardless of what agenda is hidden, for controlling those who are duped into electing them! Just shut up, do your work for low wages, pay your high taxes, pay for overpriced worthless crap, and don't question where its all going, or how they're getting there, or going to do! They control..you obey!.....and do so with programmed enthusiasm! .....and for God's sakes, do NOT be a free individual with free thought. Those are troublemakers.....and a threat, for sure! GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill) From: Don(Wyziwyg)T Date: 28 Jun 10 - 06:31 AM ""and for God's sakes, do NOT be a free individual with free thought. Those are troublemakers.....and a threat, for sure!"" If your concept of individuality and free thinking gives rise to the wild flights of fancy, and ridiculous conspiracy theories, which you exhibit here, then perhaps you would be better of without them. If genuine freedom and free thinking were as troublesome to those in power, as you suggest, then this website would have been closed down years ago, and a lot of others too. Don T. |
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Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill) From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 28 Jun 10 - 12:06 PM DonT: "If your concept of individuality and free thinking gives rise to the wild flights of fancy, and ridiculous conspiracy theories, which you exhibit here, then perhaps you would be better of without them." Once again, Don, that nasty bug up your ass, is rearing its head. So here, take it from someone else, that you might not be so prone to spout your bias at. You might recognize it......then again, maybe not. What they want for you! Got it??? GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill) From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 28 Jun 10 - 12:09 PM |
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Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill) From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 28 Jun 10 - 12:10 PM DonT: "If genuine freedom and free thinking were as troublesome to those in power, as you suggest, then this website would have been closed down years ago, and a lot of others too." Just give it time, the way things are going! GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill) From: GUEST,ibo Date: 28 Jun 10 - 02:25 PM we should release 30,000 seagulls to soak up the oil |
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Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill) From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 28 Jun 10 - 04:56 PM Digression, but deep-water drilling off Tanzania is hitting it big. Anadarko (partner with BP in Macondo) has a "high quality" gas discovery. Dominion Petroleum's discovery has a billion barrel potential. Exxon-Mobil and UK-based BG have exploration blocks. |
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Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill) From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 28 Jun 10 - 05:31 PM News, June 28. BP stock up a bit (0.11%) since storm fears wane. A rig to increase recovery from the leak may be delayed because of the storm Alex, however, Adm. Allen said.. Adm. Allen says relief well will not be at its target before mid-August. The drill is within 900 feet, but the last drilling has to be done "very slowly." Eugene Turner, professor of Oceanography at Louisiana State univ. and NOAA scientists say the "dead zone" will be larger this year (about the size of New Jersey) but how much is the effect of the spill is unknown. In an understatement, Prof, Turner said the combination of the hypoxic zone and the oil spill will not be good for local fisheries. Costs to BP have risen to $100 million a day; currently at $2.65 billion. Refinery at Toledo, Ohio, back online after boiler failure June 15. TransCanada Pipelines, partnering with Exxon-Mobil, have proposed building a pipeline from Alaska to Canada to the lower 48 at a cost of some $30-40 billion, says it is not discussing a merger with Denali, a rival pipeline by BP and Conoco-Phillips (proposed with a cost of $35 billion). Talks on such a merger, in the multi-billions, was reported in the Houston Chronicle. Both plan to connect with lines in Alberta (Trans-Canada). Steve Rinehart, a BP Alaska spokesman, refused to comment. |
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Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill) From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 28 Jun 10 - 05:34 PM Above reports from ADVFN Canada, www.advfn.com |
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Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill) From: Don(Wyziwyg)T Date: 29 Jun 10 - 03:09 PM ""Got it???"" YEAH! I got it. Don't bother taking on board the opinions of experts in world affairs, economics, politics, or anything of that sort. Just ask a working class Liverpool pop star, who wrote a song about it, and also professed to be more important than Jesus. Yeah RIGHT! You prove my point so much better than I could have done. Don T. |
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Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill) From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 29 Jun 10 - 07:51 PM Okay...... Try this! (click) GfS OHHH, and if you can't distinguish between the Truth coming from a 'pop star', and/or common sense, the previously posted article was written by: Paul Krugman joined The New York Times in 1999 as a columnist on the Op-Ed Page and continues as professor of Economics and International Affairs at Princeton University. Mr. Krugman received his B.A. from Yale University in 1974 and his Ph.D. from MIT in 1977. He has taught at Yale, MIT and Stanford. At MIT he became the Ford International Professor of Economics. Mr. Krugman is the author or editor of 20 books and more than 200 papers in professional journals and edited volumes. His professional reputation rests largely on work in international trade and finance; he is one of the founders of the "new trade theory," a major rethinking of the theory of international trade. In recognition of that work, in 1991 the American Economic Association awarded him its John Bates Clark medal, a prize given every two years to "that economist under forty who is adjudged to have made a significant contribution to economic knowledge." Mr. Krugman's current academic research is focused on economic and currency crises. At the same time, Mr. Krugman has written extensively for a broader public audience. Some of his recent articles on economic issues, originally published in Foreign Affairs, Harvard Business Review, Scientific American and other journals, are reprinted in Pop Internationalism and The Accidental Theorist. On October 13, 2008, it was announced that Mr. Krugman would receive the Nobel Prize in Economics. OKAY??????? |
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Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill) From: Shanghaiceltic Date: 29 Jun 10 - 09:00 PM From the latest Private Eye issue. From Private Eye latest issue... 11 People killed in accident on oil rig leased by British company BP, resulting in four presidential visits, a $1.6bn clean-up and the establishment of $20bn compensation fund in two months. 15,000 People killed in accident at Bhopal plant owned by American company Union Carbide, resulting in 0 presidential visits, no clean-up and $470m compensation in 25 years |
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Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill) From: Don Firth Date: 29 Jun 10 - 09:24 PM The Bhopal disaster occurred during the Reagan (Republican) administration. Make of that what you will. Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill) From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 29 Jun 10 - 09:27 PM Members of BP's employee savings plan are bringing a class action suit against the company. Employees say the "Defendants knew or should have known that investment in PB Plc was- and continues to be- an imprudent investment of the ESP's (Employees Savings Plan) assets due to serious mismanagement and improper business practices that resulted in catastrophic incidents of international significance, including, among others, the BP spill in the Gulf of Mexico." The lawsuit, filed in federal court in Chicago, seeks class-action status; the complaint states that regulatory filings show the plan held $2.45 billion worth of London-based BP's American depository shares, or 29% of its $8.27 billion of assets, at the end of 2009. Bloomberg Reports. New York State Common Retirement Fund, at $132.6 billion assets the nation's third-largest public pension fund, is seeking "lead plaintiff" status in a class action suit brought June 22. The fund's loss is some $575 million. A Fund spokesman said "BP mislead investors about its safety procedures and its ability to respond to events like the ongoing oil spill, and we're going to hold it accountable." CNNMoney.com |
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Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill) From: Greg F. Date: 29 Jun 10 - 09:33 PM Also the Reagan (Senile) Administration. |
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Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill) From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 29 Jun 10 - 09:59 PM The California Public Employees Retirement System, valued at $205.2 billion, owned and 60.1 million BP shares as of June 9. Clark McKinley, fund spokesman, would not say whether the Fund intended to file suit. money.cnn.com No comment has been made by the California State Teachers Retirement System, the second largest public pension fund after the California Public Employees Retirement System. Neither fund will be severely affected because they are so large. The Ontario Teachers Pension Fund ($96.4 billion in assets). Approximately 33% of assets are non-Canadian, but no BP stock as of Dec. 2009. |
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Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill) From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 30 Jun 10 - 04:03 AM Shanghaiceltic, Wow! great post. Thank you!..and everyone else who added to it! GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill) From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 30 Jun 10 - 01:38 PM BP has just been fined $5.2 million for submitting "false, inaccurate and misleading reports on energy production on Southern Ute Tribal Lands in SW Colorado, the Department of Interior said. Tribal auditors and the Management Bureau found that BP reported "incorrect royalty rates and prices for royalty putposes" and incorrectly reported well production on leases, the Interior Department said, leading Ocean Energy Management bureau's director, Michael Bromwich, to conclude that "BP's continued submission of erroneous reports was knowing or willful." The errors were reported to BP, but they were not corrected. CNN News, June 30, 2010. http://www.cnn.com/2010/US/06/30/us.bp.fined/index.html?iref=allsearch |
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Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill) From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 30 Jun 10 - 11:01 PM BP is trying to shut down an internal safety watchdog agency it set up under congressional pressure four years ago following the Texas refinery explosion and the Alaska spill. BP's program of secret dealings won't stand the light of day. CNN News, June 30, 2010. |
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Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill) From: mousethief Date: 30 Jun 10 - 11:16 PM Is it because they're British, do you think, that they're such scofflaws? |
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Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill) From: Ebbie Date: 01 Jul 10 - 01:19 AM guffaw |
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Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill) From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 01 Jul 10 - 03:54 AM Cool info, Q. You just keep coming up with little gems. Instead of focusing in on one or the other, the hot ticket would be to find the 'point of corruption', of the two, by the two, and 'for' the two..which may, of course, never come out...readily...but THAT is where the 'reform regulations' need to come.....along with criminal indictments!~ Actually, we already have laws in place, that somehow, either got ignored, broken, or 'legislated out a loophole', for somebody....under the guise of 'a better idea', complete with host of 'regulatory fees, and fines'. Once again, as more truth comes out, you will see what I've been an ogre, for so long about...corruption, both sides, so much, that they're the same!....and not representing the well being, or will of WE...the nation! They've just about drained us dry! Don't give up your spirit...it's not theirs! Regards, GfS Hell, there's a song in there somewhere! |
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Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill) From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 01 Jul 10 - 01:25 PM Punitive Damages are tax-deductable. A bill is up in Congress to change this. See New York Times today online, July 1, 2010. "Damages Control, *Polsky and Markel. "When corporations like Exxon, State Farm and Phillip Morris lose tort cases, juries occasionally award, in addition to compensation for the plaintiff's injuries, extensive punitive damages. "But jurors are often unaware that companies are able to deduct those punitive damages in calculating their federal income taxes, saving them millions of dollars and undermining the original goal of the damages: to punish reprehensible corporate behavior." Bp stands to take advantage if such damages are awarded. "When a settlement is reached....... before a trial.....they aren't required to specify which parts of the settlement are punitive and which are compensatory;....... allows defendants to disguise the amounts that they would have paid as punitive damages as additional compensatory damages." "And because the measure maintains the deductable status of compensatory damages, nearly all punitive damages will remain, as a practical, matter, deductible." * Law professors at North Carolina and Florida State, resp. Welcome to the land of OZ! |
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Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill) From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 02 Jul 10 - 11:11 AM Latest that I've gotten: They are boring, not just into the 'pocket' but into the actual shaft to relieve pressure, by diverting the main flow, to other new shafts. To me, all I can say is, all the more power to them! Hope it is successful! Next, they have noted that the ocean floor has risen a bit there, and I don't have the measurements, of how much. With that is the concerns about the pocket this will leave,(as posted before), and/or concern if a collapse, when it is over, would cause a tsunami. Don't laugh, they were discussing it on the radio....so try...try real hard, to just grit your teeth, and not shoot the messenger! Next, they have hit MASSIVE pockets of methane, where the crew on the rigs, all had to stop drilling, and put on protective gear. They are having to be extra pre-cautious, because methane is HIGHLY flammable, and they're saying it was the cause, of the first drilling rig's blast,..(at least, that's what their saying). Also, the report, on the radio, confirms another earlier report, which I posted, (and was poo-pooed about), that the pressures were 'upwards of 100,000 psi'(exact quote). My earlier posted report was 20 to 70 thousand, if you recall. Finally, the reports of widespread ill effects of the toxic gasses are coming in, nausea, headaches, dizziness, etc, etc. So, there you have it. The latest reports coming in. As per aforementioned,as time went on, and 'new revised numbers' would be coming in, that they would confirm what I posted originally. My apprehension is, I wonder if my original numbers have gotten worse....as time has gone by! Peace and Best Wishes, GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill) From: Ed T Date: 02 Jul 10 - 11:43 AM "The latest reports coming in": IMO, There's lots of those reports, indeed. The challenge is to separate the logical stuff from the less logical and the nonsense. It is difficult because some parts are unknown, the knowledgeable folks are limited in their comments, controlled by the operation, or drowned out by the massive number of "so called, experts who often tend to sensationalize (no need for that, considering the real stuff). There are no shortage of reports, opinions, PR speculation, blogs, folks wanting to be seen as right (or, seeking public attention) or just plain nonsense on this issue. This is likely because it is a major, high profile issue (especially in the USA, a media center), there is plenty of public and media interest and concern, and there has been attempts to control information out and to skew public attitudes. This recipe makes it ripe for conspiracy theories and gives credibility those with information or opinions who to profess to be experts. Just my opinion, of course. |
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Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill) From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 02 Jul 10 - 03:09 PM A lot of exaggerated nonsense in blogs on the raddio. Seismicity is used to find likely oil and gas traps in the subsurface. "Highs" or blockages to trap hydrocarbons in porous sediments are two anomalies sought by petroleum explorationists, and become prospects. The hydrocarbons encountered vary, depending on the thermal history. The hyrdocarbons in sediments undergo a natural 'cracking' depending on the heat and pressure on the formation. Very heavy hydrocarbon molecules are separated, lighter fluids and gases are generated that can be extracted through the well bore. If thermal effects are very strong, the result is more gas and less or no liquid hydrocarbons. The formation being explored at the Macondo well has a strong gas element, but liquid hydrocarbons are also present; contributing to a desirable crude. Gases have become an important contributor to our energy needs. Of course if the formation is breached, the gas pressure will force both liquid and gaseous materials to the surface, usually confined and prepared for production. Unfortunately, mistakes and unpreparedness led to the gusher at Macondo being uncontrolable. Nonsense about eventual collapse and tsunami belongs in children's science fiction comics. Of course the disaster is catastrophic enough without such laughable speculation. Hydrocarbon gases normally are a mixture of the lightest hydrocarbons, methane to ethane and etc.; there is nothing unusual about that. In some regions subjected to stronger thermal effects, the gases approach the very light end, methane. Along with the hydrocarbon gases, many crudes contain sulfurous gases and compounds. There is a good market for sulfur at present, but I remember seeing large piles of extracted sulfur near some refineries. All of these gases are toxic, the degree depending on the type and concentration. Care must be taken in handling them. Crude oil itself is not the friendliest of substances. |
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Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill) From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 03 Jul 10 - 12:55 AM I guess I could say, "I know all that"...but I also said I'd post anything I heard, that was related. The Tsunami thing was a new one on me, however, they were talking about IF there was a collapse. So far, when I've posted stuff about that, someone posts the usual reply, of calling it nonsense......but then, on this matter, the stuff I've posted HAS been accurate...just ahead of what was reported on the regular 'news'(?) I did, on the original post(or was it the second one, mention how they normally pump water or mud back into where they pump offshore, so when they mentioned the other part, I thought it may be of interest...and I'm only posting what I've heard, as aforementioned. Hey, everyone have a good one! GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill) From: Ed T Date: 03 Jul 10 - 08:41 PM GFS, Here are some links to keep your inquiring mind busy...at the end ot the post. They are theories of offbeat scientist Thomas "Tommy" Gold, who died in 2004? He was proven right on a lot of his theories that scientists (of the time) did not accept. He suggested that the moon's surface was covered with a fine rock powder...proven to be true. He stated that the ear (not the brain) was capable of resonating and discriminating between different musical notes, again proven years later. Another was that pulsars are neutron stars emitting radio waves as they spin....again proven years later. One unconventional theory, never to catch on, was that oil and natural gas are formed not from decaying organic matter, as most scientists believe, but from geologic processes and continually well up to the surface from deep underground. "The presence of organic molecules in all petroleum deposits has long been taken as evidence for the biological origin of petroleum. Gold argued instead in his 1999 book "The Deep Hot Biosphere" that the organic molecules come from subterranean microbes that feed on petroleum deep in the Earth's crust. Gold's vision of a supply of oil and gas that is essentially inexhaustible drew intense criticism from petroleum geologists". http://www.news.cornell.edu/chronicle/99/1.28.99/Gold-book.html http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread38279/pg1 |
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Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill) From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 03 Jul 10 - 09:15 PM Remains of microorganisms (mostly; some other plant materials) and geochemical study of the range of organic compounds preserved in association with petroleum deposits have proven that the source is preserved organic materials transformed by heat and pressure of burial under the weight of sediments. Geochemistry has proven to be of great value in determining the relationship of hydrocarbon deposits to source beds, due to the pioneering work of W. G. Meinschein, Huang, Staplin and others and, of practical value to petroleum explorationists, the identification and mapping of source-reservoir relationships which has contributed to important discoveries of reserves. |
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Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill) From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 04 Jul 10 - 04:10 AM I know TH-A-A-A-T!!! (wink) GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill) From: Ed T Date: 04 Jul 10 - 08:52 PM "Scientists have found that ethane and heavier hydrocarbons can be synthesized under the pressure-temperature conditions of the upper mantle —the layer of Earth under the crust and on top of the core". http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/07/090726150843.htm |
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Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill) From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 04 Jul 10 - 10:56 PM Hydrocarbons can be formed in other ways- some noted in meteorites (I published long ago on one chondrite that may have organic remains and which contains organic compounds, but there is much better, more recent analysis by geochemists), and inferred from scans of planets- but the abundant hydrocarbons we find in buried sediments are derived from organic precursors, remains of which are common in oils that have not undergone much thermal heat and/or pressure, and which have the same geochemical fingerprints. |
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Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill) From: Ed T Date: 04 Jul 10 - 11:13 PM An interesting, (though long) blog/perspective on oil from 2005 (old, but still interesting): http://mises.org/daily/1717 |
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Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill) From: dick greenhaus Date: 06 Jul 10 - 06:38 PM Isn't it comforting to realize that BP (through its affiliates AMOCO and ARCO) can now legally spend as much money as they wish in getting freindly US politicians elected? Ahh....free speech. |
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Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill) From: Richard Bridge Date: 15 Jul 10 - 04:23 AM "14 Jul 2010: President of the Organisation for International Investment tells UK firms to beware anti-British rhetoric in forthcoming US mid-term elections in the wake of the BP oil spill" http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2010/jul/14/british-companies-reputation-threat-us I told you so. |
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Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill) From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 15 Jul 10 - 01:41 PM Many of us hope that BP will be bought out by companies that pay more attention to government regulations and to honest business practices. |
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Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill) From: Don(Wyziwyg)T Date: 15 Jul 10 - 03:11 PM ""Many of us hope that BP will be bought out by companies that pay more attention to government regulations and to honest business practices."" American companies of course! And what you'll get is companies who are better at hiding their disregard for regulations which interfere with making profit. Only next time, those companies (Transocean, Halliburton, etc.) won't be able to hide behind a foreign competitor, and avoid taking any responsibility for their own actions. I hold no brief for BP in all this, but they weren't alone, and only they are taking the flak for what happened. And you are living in cloud cuckoo land if you believe that US companies are any more likely to be trustworthy. Next time, and there will be a next time, you'll have nobody to blame but your own guys. Still, as I said earlier, it looks as though you all are going to be rid of the biggest competitor of US big oil. Don T. |
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Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill) From: GUEST Date: 15 Jul 10 - 04:23 PM Post verified as being from GfS - but GfS, you should put your name in the "from" box. -Joe Offer- Don: "Still, as I said earlier, it looks as though you all are going to be rid of the biggest competitor of US big oil." What does being a 'U.S.' company have to do with it???? The multinational conglomerates don't give a damn about the U.S., unless it wants to rent their military. Neither do the 'globalists', nor the socialists....its all one big happy family! Sooner or later a light will go on........... GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill) From: GUEST,Wesley S Date: 15 Jul 10 - 04:37 PM By the way. CNN is reporting that the leak in the Gulf has finally been capped. Let's hope it holds this time. |
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Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill) From: Alice Date: 15 Jul 10 - 09:30 PM Most Americans don't even think about British companies or would recognize them if asked. Most would respond "Simon Cowell" if asked about the British or maybe the GEICO gecko. Strange as it may seem to you, most Americans don't think about Britain at all. |
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Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill) From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 15 Jul 10 - 10:05 PM Had to go to Wiki to find out who Simon Cowell was (He is a Britisher, it seems). I have heard of Idol but never watched it. Geico is owned by Berkshire Hathaway, Warren Buffett's company, about as American as one can get. I thought the accent was pure gecko. True, never thought about British companies before BP's catastrophe, but now I do. BP's atrocious example has hurt UK business reputations (Now I won't buy that Lotus!). |
