BS: Thanks, GOP. Fiscal Cliff will cost me "$____"

Subject: RE: BS: Thanks, GOP. Fiscal Cliff will cost me "$____"
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 31 Dec 12 - 08:46 PM

Another possible result of the "fiscal cliff" and the legislation that expires tonight - milk may go up to $6 or $7 a gallon. There is some agriculture pricing that kept prices down. Dairy farmers can use some help in the price of diary products, but I think it has more to do with the price of feed than the price of milk. It has been a while since I listened to that story, but it'll be sure to come up soon if there is a sudden price hike in the grocery store.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Thanks, GOP. Fiscal Cliff will cost me "$____"
From: Bobert
Date: 31 Dec 12 - 08:47 PM

I'm with you, John...

1/2 of Americans live at 125% of poverty or less...

Let's keep this in perspective here...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Thanks, GOP. Fiscal Cliff will cost me "$____"
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 01 Jan 13 - 01:08 AM

Stilly -

The "milk cliff" is from a program to keep prices UP, not down.

Originally set up when costs of milk production were much higher, if the farmers can't sell the milk for at least the "support price" the Fed is REQUIRED to offer to buy a certain amount of it at a preset (high) price.

With current production methods, the market has resulted in retail milk prices of around $3.50/gallon, which means the producers are selling the "raw milk" for some lesser amount; but if a "temporary hold" on government purchases expires, the gov will be forced to offer to buy it at a higher price. If the farmer can sell to the government for $5/gal, they're unlikely to sell it to the processors/distributors/cookie makers for $2.50. The milk users will have to match the "support price" in order to get any milk at all, which will give the cows lots of profit unnecessarily and once again will stick everybody who drinks milk or makes cheese or cookies with higher prices.

The REAL somewhat disguised threat is that foreign suppliers who can't sell to the US gov't but can sell to US buyers/distributors will move into the US markets and drive all our own dairy farms out of business if the "milk cliff" isn't quashed.

The farmers generally recognize that while the milk cliff would give them a temporary profit, it likely would drive them all out of production fairly quickly, since the amount of milk the gov is required to buy is a fraction of current production. Some cows will get rich, but others will have to compete in an extremely "distorted" market.

John

Subject: RE: BS: Thanks, GOP. Fiscal Cliff will cost me "$____"
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 01 Jan 13 - 12:51 PM

Regardless of the intent of the former legislation, the result of it expiring will cost consumers more. That's all I can bring to that story - though as I mentioned, there are problems with a domino effect of government subsidies to do with agriculture. I'd have to find the story I saw/heard to make the connections, but I am not sure where I heard it.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Thanks, GOP. Fiscal Cliff will cost me "$____"
From: beardedbruce
Date: 02 Jan 13 - 10:03 AM

"Senate-Passed Deal Means Higher Tax on 77% of Households
By Richard Rubin - Jan 1, 2013 1:54 PM ET

The budget deal passed by the U.S. Senate today would raise taxes on 77.1 percent of U.S. households, mostly because of the expiration of a payroll tax cut, according to preliminary estimates from the nonpartisan Tax Policy Center in Washington.
More than 80 percent of households with incomes between $50,000 and $200,000 would pay higher taxes. Among the households facing higher taxes, the average increase would be $1,635, the policy center said. A 2 percent payroll tax cut, enacted during the economic slowdown, is being allowed to expire as of yesterday.
E
The heaviest new burdens in 2013, compared with 2012, would fall on top earners, who would face higher rates on income, capital gains, dividends and estates. The top 1 percent of taxpayers, or those with incomes over $506,210, would pay an average of $73,633 more in taxes.
Much of that burden is concentrated at the very top of the income scale.
The top 0.1 percent of taxpayers, those with incomes over about $2.7 million, would pay an average of $443,910 more, reducing their after-tax incomes by 8.4 percent. They would pay 26 percent of the additional taxes imposed by the legislation.
Among households with incomes between $500,000 and $1 million, taxes would go up by an average of $14,812."

Subject: RE: BS: Thanks, GOP. Fiscal Cliff will cost me "$____"
From: Greg F.
Date: 02 Jan 13 - 10:09 AM

Yup, Beardie, and we can thank the TeaPublican obstructionists for bringing it to pass.

Subject: RE: BS: Thanks, GOP. Fiscal Cliff will cost me "$____"
From: Bobert
Date: 02 Jan 13 - 10:12 AM

Bottom line here???

We'll be re-visiting this sooner or later... The increases in this deal are a joke... They won't do a danged thing about cutting into the deficit because the rate on increased federal spending, while at a 60 year low (1.4%), is such that the increased revenues will be sucked up by the increased spending...

BTW, NASCAR got $60M!!! Go Stroker Ace... You be da' man...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Thanks, GOP. Fiscal Cliff will cost me "$____"
From: beardedbruce
Date: 02 Jan 13 - 11:21 AM

Wrong, Greggie boy.

This was the SENATE bill, that the TEA party DID NOT VOTE FOR ( See who voted of it, nd who did not.

Just the Democrats fault.

Subject: RE: BS: Thanks, GOP. Fiscal Cliff will cost me "$____"
From: beardedbruce
Date: 02 Jan 13 - 11:25 AM

"CBO: 'Fiscal cliff' deal carries $4 trillion price tag over next decade
By Peter Schroeder         - 01/01/13 02:07 PM ET
   
The Senate deal to avoid the "fiscal cliff" will add roughly $4 trillion to the deficit when compared to current law, according to new numbers from the Congressional Budget Office (CBO).



The CBO determined Tuesday that the package, hammered out late Monday evening by Vice President Biden and Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.), would — over the next decade — come with a $3.9 trillion price tag.
The agreement, which is pending before the House after passing in an 89-8 Senate vote early Tuesday, would extend lower tax rates on annual household income under $450,000 and postpone automatic spending cuts for two months.

The extension of lower tax rates for the bulk of the nation's taxpayers and the addition of a patch to the Alternative Minimum Tax would add roughly $3.6 trillion to the deficit over the next decade, the CBO said. Other individual, business and energy tax extenders would add another $76 billion. The extension of unemployment benefits would cost roughly $30 billion, and the so-called "doc fix" would tally another $25 billion through fiscal 2022.

The CBO says the budget agreement will lead to an overall increase in spending of about $330 billion over 10 years.

The combination of tax hikes and spending cuts that make up the fiscal cliff — if allowed to proceed — would improve the nation's deficit, but economic experts on both sides warn its dramatic impact would push the nation back into a recession if allowed to take effect in 2013."





Note NO cuts ins spending- the cuts the GOP wanted, but lots of higher taxes- the taxes the Dems wanted.

Subject: RE: BS: Thanks, GOP. Fiscal Cliff will cost me "$____"
From: Bobert
Date: 02 Jan 13 - 11:33 AM

Greg is correct...

Obama and the entire Congress is very respectful of just how much damage the Tea Party can do to the country and so everyone is having to dance around them... The problem is that we won't solve any problems until they are gone...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Thanks, GOP. Fiscal Cliff will cost me "$____"
From: beardedbruce
Date: 02 Jan 13 - 11:50 AM

No, the problem is that until we cut spending we can never tax enough to get out of debt.


The Senate did not cut spending- they increased taxes.
The Senate is controlled by Democrats.
The majority of House Republicans did NOT vote for the Senate bill- it was passed by the Democrats and a few Republicans who felt it was better than the "cliff".

Greggie is never correct- *I* do not agree with him on Black Democrats. Maybe Bobert does???

Subject: RE: BS: Thanks, GOP. Fiscal Cliff will cost me "$____"
From: beardedbruce
Date: 02 Jan 13 - 11:53 AM

"Congress approves 'fiscal cliff' measure

By Lori Montgomery and Rosalind S. Helderman, Published: January 1

Congress approved a plan to end Washington's long drama over the "fiscal cliff" late Tuesday after House Republicans surrendered to President Obama's demand to let taxes rise on the nation's richest households.

The House voted 257 to 167 to send the measure to Obama for his signature; the vote came less than 24 hours after the Senate overwhelmingly approved the legislation.

House Speaker John A. Boehner (Ohio) and most other top GOP leaders took no public position on the measure and offered no public comment before the 10:45 p.m. vote. Boehner declined even to deliver his usual closing argument, leaving House Ways and Means Committee Chairman Dave Camp (R-Mich.) to defend the measure as the "largest tax cut in American history."

The bill will indeed shield millions of middle-class taxpayers from tax increases set to take effect this month. But it also will let rates rise on wages and investment profits for households pulling in more than $450,000 a year, marking the first time in more than two decades that a broad tax increase has been approved with GOP support.

The measure also will keep benefits flowing to 2 million unemployed workers on the verge of losing their federal checks. And it will delay for two months automatic cuts to the Pentagon and other agencies that had been set to take effect Wednesday.

Many economists had warned that the scheduled tax increases and spending cuts would have plunged the economy back into recession.

Conservatives complained bitterly that the legislation would raise taxes without making any significant cuts in government spending. For much of the day, the measure appeared headed for defeat as Boehner contemplated tacking on billions in spending cuts, a move that would have derailed a compromise that the White House and Senate leaders had carefully crafted.

In the end, GOP lawmakers decided not to take a gamble that could force the nation to face historic tax increases for virtually every American — and leave House Republicans to take the blame.

"I don't know if playing chicken with the American people at this point is in the best interest of the people," said freshman Rep. Lou Barletta (R-Pa.).

The bill drew 85 votes from Republicans and 172 from Democrats, meaning well more than half of its support came from the Democratic minority.

With 151 Republicans voting "no," the GOP tally fell far short of a majority of the GOP caucus. That broke a long-standing preference by Boehner to advance only bills that could draw the support of a majority of his Republican members.

In a sign of the moment's gravity, Boehner himself cast a rare vote: He supported the bill. So did Rep. Paul Ryan (Wis.), the GOP's vice-presidential candidate last year, who parted ways from Sen. Marco Rubio (R-Fla.), a potential 2016 presidential contender, who voted against the measure.

But other top GOP leaders voted no, including Majority Leader Eric Cantor (Va.) and Majority Whip Kevin McCarthy (Calif.).
"

Subject: RE: BS: Thanks, GOP. Fiscal Cliff will cost me "$____"
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 02 Jan 13 - 01:19 PM

Cutting spending stifles growth, and results in nations prostrated by strangulation of restraint packages. See Greece, Spain, Portugal, Ireland for further reference.

More places need to do what Iceland did, throw the bankers in jail that caused a lot of the fiscal problems. Until the US prosecutes and addresses the lost billions that were transferred from homeowners to investors through sly business practices, people won't trust the financial system.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Thanks, GOP. Fiscal Cliff will cost me "$____"
From: beardedbruce
Date: 02 Jan 13 - 01:59 PM

"
Senators Got 154-Page 'Fiscal Cliff' Bill 3 Minutes Before Voting on It
By Matt Cover
January 2, 2013

(CNSNews.com) – The U.S. Senate voted 89-8 to approve legislation to avoid the fiscal cliff despite having only 3 minutes to read the 154-page bill and budget score.

Multiple Senate sources have confirmed to CNSNews.com that senators received the bill at approximately 1:36 AM on Jan. 1, 2013 – a mere three minutes before they voted to approve it at 1:39 AM.

The bill is 154-pages and includes several provisions that are unrelated to the fiscal cliff, including repealing a section of ObamaCare, extending the wind-energy tax credit, and a rum tax subsidy deal for Puerto Rican rum makers.

The bill avoids the fiscal cliff by making permanent the Bush tax cuts for individuals making less than $400,000 per year and couples making less than $450,000 and by putting off the automatic spending cuts (sequestration) from last year's debt ceiling deal until March.

Technically, those Bush tax rates had expired at midnight on Dec. 31, 2012 and the spending cuts were scheduled to take place when the government reopened following the New Year's Day holiday."

Subject: RE: BS: Thanks, GOP. Fiscal Cliff will cost me "$____"
From: Bobert
Date: 02 Jan 13 - 03:00 PM

Thank you, Magz...

I wished that bb and all these flat-earthers would take a basic college economics course rather than just ***proclaim*** their beliefs... Beliefs and facts aren't one of the same...

That's the problem here... There are a small minority of Americans who are gaming the system and getting very, very rich from it and their pawns are the bb's of the country who read and ***believe*** the propaganda that these people stick out there for consumption... Problem is that the only folks profiting are the small minority and not the folks parroting the propaganda... So we end up with bad deals, like the one the Senate passed last night...

This isn't all about spending but, yes, spending is a part of the fix... There was way too much pork in this bill... $60M for Stroker Ace (NASCAR)??? Give me a break...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Thanks, GOP. Fiscal Cliff will cost me
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 02 Jan 13 - 04:53 PM

Y'all are prejudiced. There's nothing in the law that prevents a family making $50K from buying and maintaining a dressage-trained horse, and taking a %77,000 tax deduction for it.

Subject: RE: BS: Thanks, GOP. Fiscal Cliff will cost me "$____"
From: GUEST,guest Charley Noble
Date: 03 Jan 13 - 03:41 PM

I'm with you, Dick. There are a whole lot of wimps and whiners around here who if they had half a brain could figure out how the new system works for their interests.

Cheerily,
Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Thanks, GOP. Fiscal Cliff will cost me "$____"
From: Bobert
Date: 03 Jan 13 - 03:46 PM

Yeah, the loopholes out there for rich land owners are all but limitless... Wanta a fancy new tractor or truck or 4 wheeler??? Fine, just grow a little garden and take a few cucumbers to the farmers market or own a stenking horse and then Uncle Sam will subsidize those purchases...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Thanks, GOP. Fiscal Cliff will cost me "$____"
From: akenaton
Date: 03 Jan 13 - 06:16 PM

Bearded Bruce is correct. The only way to save the system is to instigate huge cuts in public spending.....a few million dollars from the ultra rich will make absolutely no difference, a fact that Mr Obama knows very well, but the system means much more to Mr Obama than the welfare of the poor.This vote was a smoke screen
The huge cuts in public spending which will happen along shortly means more poverty for those who can least afford it, and that is the way it will always be.
In the words of an old music hall song "Its the rich what gets the pleasure and it's the poor what gets the blame."

But one day people will realise that the system causes the problems and it simply is not worth saving......or sacrificing a couple of generations of our children for.

Of course the American Dream sometimes comes true....a few people make good....but the system ensures that it is only a very few, it is similar to why we continue to buy lottery tickets while our children starve.....hope springs eternal.

Newsflash.....hope has been made redundant!

Subject: RE: BS: Thanks, GOP. Fiscal Cliff will cost me "$____"
From: Janie
Date: 03 Jan 13 - 10:27 PM

What plays out on so many of these threads is the same thing that has played out in Congress, especially the House, these last several years.

Makes me realize that Congress really is truly representative of the current state of our "Union."

Subject: RE: BS: Thanks, GOP. Fiscal Cliff will cost me "$____"
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 04 Jan 13 - 12:42 PM

Ake and BB can go advise Greece and Spain. Help them on their downward spiral.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Thanks, GOP. Fiscal Cliff will cost me "$____"
From: Greg F.
Date: 04 Jan 13 - 12:51 PM

Bearded Bruce is correct.

Thanks for the laugh, Pharoah. Funniest thing I've heard in a long while.

Subject: RE: BS: Thanks, GOP. Fiscal Cliff will cost me "$____"
From: akenaton
Date: 04 Jan 13 - 08:01 PM

Greg....I dont think you or many others here recognise the severity of the problem facing the developed world.
This is not a game....This is about starvation, real poverty, zero employment, cities burning, race riots,police state........

You think we are over the worst?   We are at the beginning of the end.
Something good may come of it.....but I very much doubt it.

Subject: RE: BS: Thanks, GOP. Fiscal Cliff will cost me "$____"
From: Bobert
Date: 04 Jan 13 - 08:09 PM

Come on, Ake... You are repeating right winged propagandists who want you to think that the sky is falling and that the US is broke and is breathing down Greece's neck on its way to the abyss..

This would be laughable if it wasn't for so many people dippin' into the koolaid...

The current debt that the US has ain't squat on the tip of a pin... This is 100% manufactured bullshit bullshit by people who aren't used to being out of power and are peddling fear and Armageddon at every turn in the road...

Like FDR said in his 1st inaugural address: "We have nothing to fear but fear itself"...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Thanks, GOP. Fiscal Cliff will cost me "$____"
From: Greg F.
Date: 05 Jan 13 - 10:32 AM

I fdunno about that, Bobert - I think its appropriate to fear assholes in positions of power.

Subject: RE: BS: Thanks, GOP. Fiscal Cliff will cost me "$____"
From: akenaton
Date: 05 Jan 13 - 11:17 AM

I'm no right wing propagandist Bob....but we shouldn't blind ourselves to why this catastrophy happened.....most of it had to do with complacent "liberal" thinking, we all allowed it to happen.
Anyone with morethan two brain cells knew we were living beyond our means and tho' "democracy and equality" in a corporate capitalist system is meaningless, it costs us £trillions$ to keep the illusion in place.

We simply swallowed the pitch, never questioning if the money was real or out of the Monopoly box,
For capitalism to produce wealth we have to be competitive...we no longer are so, thus, jobs are shifted to counties who's populace are.
As you often say, the one percent have the last word, and while this system remains in place, the one percent will survive.....they could never survive without the "fixit liberals".
Harden up man!   Eat your porage!!   :0)

Subject: RE: BS: Thanks, GOP. Fiscal Cliff will cost me "$____"
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 05 Jan 13 - 12:57 PM

Ake, if someone looked up "right wing propagandist" in the dictionary your photo appears there. You don't fool us!

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Thanks, GOP. Fiscal Cliff will cost me "$____"
From: ChrisJBrady
Date: 05 Jan 13 - 01:03 PM

Blame the frat boys of the financial world and their abusive bonding rituals.

Also blame the Park Avenue residents (at the wealthy end) - search for the docu. 'Poverty - Park Avenue' on YouTube.

I bet the Masons are well entrenched in this mess too.

Subject: RE: BS: Thanks, GOP. Fiscal Cliff will cost me "$____"
From: Bobert
Date: 05 Jan 13 - 01:15 PM

What "catastrophe", Ake???

There is none!!! Just folks who want you to think there is...

Here are some FACTS for you...

The rate of increased federal spending during Obama's first term is lower than any administration since WW II!!!

I guess you don't believe that, either... Of course you don't because facts "need not apply" for the fear-peddlers repertoire...

I mean, let's get real, ol' buddy, and quit propagating right wing fear based rhetoric...

B~