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SunCube Fiasco
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Subject: RE: BS: Keef tries to stop Scammers down under From: GUEST,Keef Date: 13 Jul 09 - 05:32 PM Yes, I know all about batteries, I am running off solar power as we speak. The scam is where a demonstration day is set up and the investors are told that the bank of lights, radio etc is running ENTIRELY off solar power. In truth, what is happening is that the batteries are being run down because the "new gee whizz please invest now" solar thingie does not produce anywhere near the claimed output. Yes, I do have time on my hands, and I am happy to spend it exposing the fraudsters. Australia is the world leader in these scams because our regulators will not act until it is too late. From Alan Bond to Gregory Watson via Christopher Skase and Tim Johnstone. Oh well, at least we are good at SOME things!! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Keef tries to stop Scammers down under From: pdq Date: 13 Jul 09 - 11:46 AM "...have set up showpiece "solar farms" complete with hidden batteries to dupe the innocent." ~ Keith Leech The rays of the Sun only fall in given area for about half a day, and solar enery output is greatly reduced by cloudy weather. Since a house needs electricity 24 hours a day, batteries (or some other method of energy storage) is needed. Hence the "hidden batteries" are not a sure sign of a scam. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Keef tries to stop Scammers down under From: Amergin Date: 13 Jul 09 - 11:34 AM Some one has too much time on his hands.... |
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Subject: RE: SunCube Fiasco From: Richard Bridge Date: 13 Jul 09 - 11:32 AM AFAIK 1. No 2. Only fraudulent 3. N/A |
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Subject: RE: SunCube Fiasco From: GUEST,Cro Date: 13 Jul 09 - 09:31 AM Just a simple question: Is SunCube working or not? If it is is there proof? What is the cost per kWh? |
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Subject: RE: SunCube Fiasco From: Richard Bridge Date: 13 Jul 09 - 03:41 AM "Orgone" was I think the brainchild of Wilhelm Reich, a "philospoher" who propounded a type of sexual energy created by orgasms. As far as I know, Dysons are mostly renowned for unreliability ans poor spares avilability (and attempts to use design right laws to prevent better and cheaper spares comeing tomarket) - oh yes, and moving production out of England to the Far East to take advantage of oppressed workers. |
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Subject: RE: SunCube Fiasco From: Keef Date: 13 Jul 09 - 02:33 AM More PARANOID LUNACY TO TRY AND DISCREDIT KEEF!! AAAAAAAARRRRRGHH!! CAUTION...The following is TOTAL BOLLOCKS The web based history of GGE Back in October of 2005, Greg Watson on Australias ABC 'New Inventors" program, presented a novel concept, a new form of solar generation device for a household roof, called the Sunball. According to both GGE and a moderated chat put up by the programs administrators, this device won the "People's Choice" award for 2005. At about the same time a Yahoo message board, the Sunball forum, was started. It seems with the express intent of publicizing the ongoing R&D being conducted on this new invention. I did not join the group at this time, as I was not aware of the existence of CPV until around March of 2008, however it appears there were a number of individuals choosing to post derogatory information aimed at discrediting Greg Watson and this invention which prompted a shutdown of the forums access to historical records. To get an idea on what independent inventors go through endeavouring to get their inventions right, consider the attempts Sir James Dyson had getting the 'bagless vacuum' cleaner fully functional. "It took Dyson 5 years and 5,127 attempts according to this site. Sir James Dyson is now a very rich man (estimated $2B US) and has become so in the last 10 years, but it did not come without a lot of hard work, time and false starts before perfecting his improvement on a product that we had taken to be already mature - the humble vacuum cleaner. I look at the story of Green and Gold Energy and Greg Watson as having parallels to Sir James Dyson. According to a cached version of Greg Watson's CV, it seems Mr Watson had a history of invention, some successful including inventing the PC230, sold through Watsons company 'Microbyte' which was one of the few companies to sell PC's to IBM. Summary of positions USAF, (USA 1965 - 1969) SAC, Guidance, Navigation & Flight Systems, (KC135 & B52 Aircraft). Burroughs Corporation, (USA 1969 - 1971) Test Engineer, Medium & Large Mainframe design group. Burroughs Corporation, (UK 1971 - 1972) Factory Engineering Support, Midland Bank Project. Burroughs Corporation, (Australia 1972 - 1981) Engineering Support Rep, Large Mainframes. Gas and Fuel Project, (Vic 1972 - 1973). Hardware Project Manager, Mandata Project, (ACT 1973 - 1976). Hardware Project Manager, Queensland Tab Project, (Qld, 1978) Site Facilities and Hardware Project Manager, SA Tab Project, (SA 1976 - 1981). Micro Byte Systems, (SA 1981 - 1991) Electronics Design / Manufacturing, Managing Director. Greg Watson Consulting, (SA 1981 - Present) Personal Computer Consultancy, System Design, Networking, Training. "He has a good business experience and has had good relations with different prime ministers. In 1981, he mounted his wife with his own company: Micro Byte Systems and it also leads Greg Watson Consulting. It now has 45 employees and a turnover of $ 10 million per year. It is thanks to him that MicroByte became one of two suppliers of the Ministry of Defence. He has over 80 PC vendors in many countries and pr feel MicroByte Germany (Ce BIT). His company was one of the few to sell computers at IBM." Translated from French Translated Yahoo Link Joe Cell - run your car on water Being very interested in renewable energy and having the background knowledge to analyse new inventions as well as develop them, in April of 2006, 6 months after the Sunball had featured on Australian TV, Greg Watson started to post on a message board dedicated to a 'free energy' device designed to make a car run on water called the Joe Cell. At the time Greg Watson had been a member of the New Energy Congress which is "a global association of experts who review the most promising new and emerging energy technologies." It seems the Joe Cell had been attracting attention by this group and Greg had thrown his hat into the ring to visit the Joe Cell developers, conduct validation of the technology, and if real and practical, report back to Peswiki (NEC) and possibly become involved or assist in the commercialization of the Joe Cell invention. According to Peswiki, the Joe Cell is an "electrolysis cell built with concentric stainless steel pipes." According to their site the following statements are attributed to Joe, one of the inventors: * The water in the cell is not consumed. * The cell runs cold to the touch. * It takes a period of time before the engine will run from the cell. It then has an erratic power output and works in an intermittent fashion. * When the cell is removed from the car, the engine takes an appreciable time to return to "normal" and run from the original fuel. * If the cell is left in the car for a long period, the engine becomes "charged". From this point, the cell is not required for the motor to run. * All spark plug leads can be removed and the engine will still run as long as the ignition coil and distributor remain functional. * The output of the cell does not have to be connected to the internals of the engine. A close external coupling will do. * The cell requires the "charging" of the water to work. * The requires a specific style of construction, little understood by most constructors. * The source of power for the cell and its use has great value for some individuals. These individuals are creating misinformation, cloaking operations and inducing fear in cell constructors. * Human presence can affect the operation of the cell in a positive or negative way. Peter Stevens, owner of Rainbow Power company and developer of the Joe Cell, posted a history of the development of the Cell on Peswiki talking about their discovery. One thing which weaves a common thread throughout the history of the Joe Cell is Joe's strong religious faith, which Peter alludes to in this article "So finally when I got up to Joe's place on Friday night, Ron and Joe where into Religion in a big way" and I have also watched a video interview with Joe which details his strong beliefs. This is recommended viewing to gain an understanding of just how much of the Joe Cell concept becoming operational is dependent on 'faith'. http://www.leechvideo.com/video/view2285070.html Nimbin, where Rainbow Power Company is based, is a small community of around 352 people, which is in a rural setting surrounded by 'multiple occupancy'farms or according to wiki, famous for its 'hippy communes'. It is located approximately 30km North of Lismore in New South Wales, Australia. View Larger Map Around the start of 2006, the Joe Cell, touted as a free energy device whose developers believe will allow a car to run on water, had a number of people attempting to replicate the effects and prove this device works. It also seems in April of 2006, around the time the validation efforts were being recommended by Greg Watson in Australia, that in the US, Bill Williams whose truck had been running on a Joe Cell according to Peswiki, had been threatened by unknown MIB (Men In Black) to destroy his plans for the device. Back in Australia, the dialog on the message board for the Joe Cell where Greg Watson was trying to get to the heart of the matter, had started to deteriorate. Greg appeared to come to the board with an open mind and was asking valid questions, but he was beginning to be met with resistance and flames (aggression, insults etc) from other Joe Cell 'believers'. Below is a history of posts you should read to get an understanding of the dialogue which went on around this technology. April 30 Recommendation on voltages to try. May 1 A look at some of the claims in a patent application May 2 Greg waiting on a call from Peter Stevens to arrange a time to validate the Cell. May 3 Comment on Alex Schiffers article, who wrote a book in 1999 about the Joe Cell. This site also sells Joe Cell equipment. May 3 Admittedly Greg does get in some cross promotion of the Suncube solar panel May 4 Smoke and Mirrors comment May 5 Discussion of vacuum and video May 28 Sterling D Allen founder of Peswiki contributes to the board. May 9 This post was asking about the success of the replication on the Rover. May 14 Greg is now thinking this may be a 15 year con job as Peter Stevens has backed away from any trial May 15 Starting to get a little heated May 16 More flames May 17 Greg has been unsubscribed 3 times from the JoeCell2 board and sent virus emails in the process May 17 Threats via email May 17 This guy talks about providing proof May 18 Peter is now back on at JoeCell2 after booting Greg and posting updates on Joe Cell successes- May 25 If 1300 people are interested in this phenomenon and only 5 people claim to have a working Joe Cell after 6 years, shouldn't an attempt be made at validation? May 25 Sensible post June 6 Post on possible threats to Bill Williams and validation June 13 Sterling D Allen supporting and requesting breathing space for the Joe Cell inventors and Greg Watson's response June 14 Greg Watson "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof". June 14 Greg Watson "15 years of urban legend BS" June 15 Conspiracy theory maybe? June 15 It may work only of you believe in God June 15 Moderator gives an ultimatum June 16 Sterling D Allen posts Greg Watsons email thread with resignation from the New Energy Congress September 11 The Joe Cell claims have never been validated Jan 23 2008 Alex Schiffer who wrote the Joe Cell book posts as ratbaitus (Note see the ID's attacking Greg Watson later on in this article - Nurse Ratchit, rat dropping etc) There are 829 posts when searching for Greg Watson in this MB, too many for me to plough through and certainly fully understand, so if this history of the Joe Cell is of any interest, please visit this search link. As of January 2007, it is worth noting that any further real updates on Sterling D Allens Peswiki seemed to cease on the process of validation of the Joe Cell. There are other sites dedicated to this device some positive and optimistic, some discrediting video's made on the Joe Cell. More links http://www.joecellenergy.com/ http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/JoesCell2/ For 15 years word of this mysterious phenomenon known as the Joe Cell and unexplained 'orgone energy', of which there are many believers, had made its rounds via word of mouth and the internet. What I can see is this: - You can not it seems buy and have someone install a Joe Cell in your car - You must spend your own time attempting to build your own Joe Cell, install it yourself and test it yourself. - To do this means many hours of research and purchasing of materials - There is also a common thread that most people cannot get this device to work, and therefore 'they have done something wrong' when building it themselves. - The element of faith is strongly played upon - ie it may not work if you do not 'believe' It appears that Greg Watson genuinely did attempt on multiple occasions to 'validate' the technology for the developers. Maybe he was aggressive in his approach, maybe there is something to his claims about this being less than an honest group of people promoting it, however my interest is not whether it works or not, it is what has happened elsewhere on the blogosphere that I am interested. So let me continue. Keith Leech At about the same time as Greg Watson began posting on the Joe Cell pages, on 18 March 2006, Keef put up what appeared to be his first post on the mudcat forum talking about the Suncube in a very positive way. The cost of solar voltaic panels has been stuck on about $20 per watt for about 20 years. With the cost of all other silicon based products (processors, memory etc) having improved in cost/ performance by a factor of thousands over the same period this might start to look like an energy cartel conspiracy. An Aussie inventor has come up with an idea that gives approximately 5 times more watt hours per day than a similar priced conventional panel. The idea uses a low cost fresnel lens to concentrate the suns rays onto a fairly small area of photocells plus an intelligent tracking mechanism to follow the sun all day. I wonder how far this idea will go before it mysteriously vanishes like so many other inventions that might upset the status quo Over a year goes by before on 21 March of 2007 Keef posts anything further on the product. This was a minor comment discussing the fact he has an order in. But by April 16th , less than a month later, Keef has decided to defame Greg Watson, starting with this post on the Sunball Forum (which has been disabled so I cannot track back history for this month). Following some critical postings on Greg's suncube forum he has now spat the dummy bigtime. Here is the post that got up his nose. South Australia 16th April. Residents of the sleepy outback town of Woomera were awakened this morning by the sound of huge numbers of low flying pigs. Car windscreens were splattered with green manure and mounds of steaming dung was piled metres deep over a vast area. Residents have raised concerns that this event is connected with the building of the new Sunpube Solar farm in the area. Inventor Greg Watson denies this claiming that the farm emits no pollution whatsoever and will supply the energy needs of the entire planet from an area of less that 1 square kilometer. Said Mr Watson, "my Sunpube technology derives its energy not only from the sun, but also from starlight and the magnetohydribblity overunity generation effect. There are no adverse effects on the environment and huge numbers of local jobs have been created. Local glaziers in particular have enjoyed a boom due to the frequent need for replacement of thousands of glass lenses. Local youths have also benefited from the entertainment opportunities available at the solar park. It has become a popular gathering place for them to enjoy wholesome outdoor pursuits including target practice and rock concerts. In fact it has become so popular that each Saturday night hundreds of utes converge on the farm each carrying a plentiful supply of rocks. Mr Watson has been gratified by the public response to his generous share offering which has allowed thousands of mum and dad investors to grab a slice of this lucrative enterprise. Whilst strongly denying any connection with the mysterious airborne porcine phenomenon, Mr Watson has nonetheless offered to supply residents with a free supply of greenwash to at least cover up the problems. Reporter Keef Wotsisname Signing off His response was interesting! Re: [Sunball] News Flash ....Woomera South Australia Dog......Toast, We have initiated legal proceeding against one person who tried to sign a license agreement, obtained and disclosed confidential information, broke the signed NDA, went behind our backs to try to buy cells, is trying to clone the SunCube and have emailed me claiming they will take away the SCIG licenses (I have the emails you sent them). You will shortly receive the summonds from our legal council. Let me make myself very clear Dog......Toast, you can not hide behind a cheap email alias. We are initiating a search which will identify who you are. GGE will not stand for this kind of insulting, defamatory and derogatory comments clearly meant to discredit myself, GGE and the SunCube. All of your posts in this forum have been referred to our legal council for their action. Additionally I find your handle is an insult to others in this forum. Greg Watson CEO Green and Gold Energy And so was Keef"s follow up Re: News Flash ....Woomera South Australia My BALLS are bigger than your balls Greg And that's MR Dogchaten-Toust if you don't mind. Keef All of Keefs Mudcat postings http://www.mudcat.org/usersearch.cfm?who=Keef It is interesting to note that Keef's original nickname, Roversbreath has connotations for what the test vehicle which the Joe Cell, a Rover V8, was going to be running on. Ie Rovers Breath. Now the discussions ramp up a notch or two with Greg Watson closing off the Sunball forum to unregulated postings and blocking historical record review, a new Yahoo MB comes into existence with the name Sungrid forum. Again with the intention of providing people a platform to discuss CPV developments and possible ways to design and construct their own solar unit, which until Greg shut it down, the Sunball forum had been doing. Here are the Sungrid Posts. Note a new character will be introduced here who goes by the nick sz and calls himself "Mr Hydrogen." 11 May 2007. - Sungrid forum begins with this post May 12 9:45am - First SZ post – SZ talks about where some of the components to build your own Suncube can be bought. May 12 2007 at 9:58am - Followed by an attack on Greg Watson's credibility May 12 2007 10:19 – At least someone has the sense to see where this line of discussion is headed May 12 2007 10:22 - Less than 30 minutes after SZ we have Keefs first negative post - "I think Greg is somewhat deranged." May 12 2007 at 10:58 pm - Next post intended to question the design practicalities May 13 2007 at 4:21am - And a response to Keef by SZ 13 May 2007 4:28am - So now we plant the IP patent registration doubts abround the Suncube by SZ 13 May 2007 10:47pm - Follow this up by Keef with another post May 14 2007 8:58am - At least someone has tried to put some perspective on this issue "A word on Greg Watson. Greg may not be a fantastic all-round businessman we all wish him to be (few inventors are), but I'd ask we give a little respect where it is due. He was the trailblazer in this area and got many of us excited about the possibilities. There is a good chance he will reconsider the marketing plan, and also a chance that we will all be able to purchase the DIY components from him, in due course. This is all my speculation, I have no concrete facts to back this up." May 14 2007 at 10:pm - So a call for commonsense is answered by Keef with this But every so often a genuine question is asked to maintain at least a semblance of credibility 14 May 2007 10:28pm - But then we attack other areas of the technology. Price first. 15 May 2007 6:56am - Again followed by a post from SZ with veiled threats May 15 2007 at 8:14 am - A moment of self reflection by Keef or part of the game? May 15 2007 8:54am - Nope, theres that competitor again casting dispersions of character May 16 2007 12:23 am - Deserves a read. Contributes nothing but bile to the discussion. May 16 2007 9:44am - Okay now lets attack the aesthetics. May 16 2007 10:49am - Now lets create fear of high temperatures without any facts May 16 2007 11:49am - And SZ fostering encouragement for negativity May 16 2007 11:06 am - OK now what does Keef guy do? "I have been a solar hot water installer and know full well the problems of working on roofs." May 17 2007 4:59am - OK at this stage Keef now sells solar hot water systems. May 18 2007 10:48pm - Keef taking pride in being an agitator. May 19 2007 2:12 am - Post by SZ proves Greg Watson has been working on CPV since at least Feb 2006, . "In the above transcript between Watson and Ricard of Sol3G in Feb.2006," May 19 2007 3:10am - Now that we believe we have done away with Watsons credibility lets copy the idea May 19 2007 7:31am - Finally someone recognizes what is going on here. May 19 2007 10:39pm - But lets blame someone else for our mistakes huh? May 21 2007 10pm - Again shift back to what appears to be a genuine line of questioning. May 21 2007 10:27pm - Fool people that you are genuine then post this. May 21 2007 11:57pm - Again someone asks this guy to return to what the board is about. May 22 2007 at 6:27am - Now remembering Keef sells hot water systems see him now advertise his wares May 22 2007 at 11:04pm - And again May 23 2007 10:33am - Time to try to close the sale. May 23 2007 12:32pm - And on cue, the business SZ is in gets a mention. . "Of course the main reason for renewable energy generation is hydrogen production." May 25 2007 12:20am - So now lets try to link a completely unrelated issue to Greg Watson May 25 2007 7:20am - And then more seeds of doubt . And how would he know this? May 26 2007 2am - More sales from SZ? 28 May 2007 2:35am - Lets not give up creating doubt. 28 May 2007 10:09pm - And again cast doubt and self sales 29 May 2007 10:22am. - Did they forget this is a forum discussing CPV? Jun 3 2007 10:24am - On the attack again. June 6 2007 11:51pm - So justification for personal attacks? "I have myself been inconvenienced by the false promises held out by Greg and have bought a crappy Chinese wind generator plus small solar panel as a stopgap measure until my Suncube arrived in August. I was also rather disappointed that my job application (willing, qualified, eager to be a part of the Suncube venture) did not even receive a reply." Okay let me just stop here for a minute and examine this claim. Firstly Keef DID have a solar installation business called SolarTech Genius. It was based in Lismore which is about 30km from Nimbin (remember Rainbow Power and the Joe Cell) and he did apply for a job with Greg Watson. (Note the thread has been removed but this is what Watson posted on the backshed). From: To: greg.watson@greenandgoldenergy.com.au Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2007 2:35 PM Subject: intent to order To Greg Watson I would like to purchase a 3 x3 dc output unit asap. I would prefer a 12volt model but I could get by with a 24 Volt. Please advise approximate date for availability. I am presently living on a multiple occupancy community with 70 plus members (no mains electricity available). I have been enthusiastic about your product since the New Inventors program. I am ready to purchase a system immediately and if it lives up to expectations then you could expect multiple orders from other community members. Systems in use at present are a variety of wind generators, small flat panel solar etc and none of these are very satisfactory. I am also interested in a position within your company, sales, technical or production. If you would like me to forward my resume please advise. Regards Keith Leech ==================== So maybe Keith, now is the time to start telling the truth. BTW Emcore and all their investors know who you are. I'm sure they would like to have a private face to face with you for destroying the value of their investments with your ego gratification lies. Maybe I should post all the very nasty emails you have send to the SA government in your attempt to destroy me, GGE and the SunCube for your own personal gain. I'm sure you do know this is a criminal activity and the internet will not protect you. Keith as far as I'm concerned you are a sick person that needs professional help. So don't expect me to respond to you any more. It is just a waste of my time. As for everyone else, please ask away. I'm here to clear up the mess that Keith has created. Edited by greengoldenergy on 01 May 2008 at 8:39am __________________ All the best, Green and Gold Energy Pty., Ltd Greg Watson, CEO 7 Provident Avenue, Glynde, 5070 South Australia, Australia, +61 8 8365 5844 http://www.greenandgoldenergy.com.au The dates here are important. This email application for work and ordering a Suncube was received by Greg Watson on April 25 2007. By this time, Keef had already (April 16th) commenced a systematic series of attacks on Greg Watson. He had also claimed that the order for the Suncube was placed on 21 March 2007. "Meanwhile the SUNBALL http://www.greenandgoldenergy.com.au/ is promising to be commercially released in August. I have got my order in!" Also being in the industry and such an expert at solar equipment, you would think Keef would have the capacity to find out which are the best products to install on his own home. Blaming someone else here did not make any sense at all to me. We continue June 19 2007 12:16pm - Another call for sanity. 21 June 2007 3:53am - Will Keef quit now he has an audience? 21 June 2007 5:17am - Lets get the government involved. Great way to take out a competitor. Especially as it was these guys who started the misinformation in the first place. June 21 2007 10:03pm - At least this guy sees exactly what is going on. 26 June 2007 11:55am. - Time to fight back. "Oh by the way, SZ, just remember I have the entire email history of how you begged me to give you the GGE license for NSW, told me I was wasting my time with the other potential NSW partners, how you went on to try to duplicate the SunCube, take away the GGE licensees and would put GGE out of business. Maybe I should go public with the entire email dialog and let the good folks here understand why you are trying to discredit me, GGE and the SunCube. To be very clear, you intentions are for your own personal financial gain." You need to read the exchange of posts here as there are too many to post. http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/SunGrid/messages/718?l=1 Jun 29 2007 9:03am - And what happens when one idea is dropped in favour of a more practical and feasible alternative? (Do not forget James Dysons 5,127 attempts) 1 Jul 2007 9:00am - Finally Greg proves what he has just said about SZ. Hey here he is: http://www.hydrogen.asn.au/Australian-Solar-Energy.htm This is the same guy who begged me to award him the NSW license for the SunCube, ripped off what I gave him under NDA and has emailed me boasting of his plans to put me out of business. Now it is clear he intends to rip off what ever CPV knowledge that he can, including what he learns in this place, make his SunCube clone and trade under the SunCube name. BTW I never asked him for a cent until he visited GGE in Adelaide and was satisfied that the SunCube did what we claimed. He never visited despite several invitations. He had the opportunity to see for himself firsthand, but decided for what ever reason not to do that and literally overnight started attacking me on every forum he could get access to. He has even created his own Yahoo forum with one member, him. http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/SunBox/ Recognize the handles sunut07, ineedthemula, svzmrhydrogen, etc. All the same guy. Greg Again let me stop here and show you exactly what validates this comment. Remember the product is called the 'Suncube' and it is Greg Watson's invention. So please explain this business registration. Entity Name = Solar Hydrogen Research Pty Ltd Trading Name = Suncube Solar Systems Australia Company Solar Hydrogen Research owned by Stephen Zorbas according to his website Note the date of business registration, February 2007 precedes the initial attacks on the Sunball forum and Mudcat forum by both Keith Leech and Stephen Zorbas. July 3 2007 10:47pm - Luckily some people understand which story is the honest one. You will note and Greg has said it many times, he has not asked for a cent from any investor. He has claimed to have signed licence agreements and presumably received fees from licensees but I cannot believe that, with the sums involved, licensees have not carried out due diligence to ensure the technology works and have secured their investments with watertight legal agreements. July 11 2007 11:46pm - And now modus operandi. When people tire of this relentless criticism and personal attacks and the poster is banned. Create another handle. 15 July 2007 10:37pm - So Greg tries to get the CPV board back on track by helping with useful information. And again on 14 Sep 2007 at 12:20am Oct 22 2007 8:49pm - Keef starts to lose it 24 October 2007 8:28am - So now we must see to believe. 24 October 2007 8:28pm - OK more I don't believe anything you say stuff. Oct 24 2007 11:16pm - And a response Ok please look at the remaining posts yourself. The next angle which Keef tries to convince people of is some invention called the SMOT (remember this for later on) over-unity device which Greg Watson had invented, was a complete scam. This is despite Greg Watson already figuring out it did not work as well as he thought so he refunded all monies to any one who had purchased the device. Besides it was called a Toy for a reason, I guess. This board goes on and on with Keef trying to convince people Greg Watson is a con-man and selectively posts other correspondence Greg has written. http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/SunGrid/messages/965?l=1 OK its time to fast forward to earlier this year when Citron research chose to do a number of pieces on Emcore basing their main argument of credibility on Emcore by questioning the GGE contracts. Firstly on March 18 Citron started with this which was predicated on someone elses hearsay about GGE. Citron Research Shines some daylight on Emcores solar business Followed up on 25 March Citron Research Updates Emcore (NASDAQ:EMKR) Keith Leech claims responsibility in this post on Mudcat a day after Lefts original article, post on March 25 on the Yahoo MB. Citron Research then chose to do a few more articles on Emcore with GGE's licencees credibility as their main argument. April 14 - Citron Exposes the 3 Way scheme Behind Emcore May 21 – More Explanation of the Fraud at Emcore June 4 – Emcore to become the Largest Solar Provider in Fantasyland September 9 – Emcore – Nothing plus nothing = nothing You really have to wonder how much effort Citron put into their research particularly reading exchanges like this as well. Again it is time to stop here and examine a few of the claims which has led so many being convinced to dismiss GGE so easily. According to GGE's website, its SunCube International Group (SCIG) partners are ES Systems , AC Gava , Square Engineering , Zolar Distributors and Solar Ace from Israel who are still in stealth mode. Who is Square Engineering? The key comes down to this post from Shraddha Constructions on the Energy blog. To, The Energy Blog Reference :- As per web site. Subject :- Enquiry regarding Modern Solar Tower Plant & Fund arrangement for the same. Dear Sir, We have seen details of various solar tower plants on which were established by your company on E – Mail. We are thinking to established Solar Tower Plant of Capacity 11 KW. At. Latur District or in Osmanabad in Maharashtra State ( India ) . The details of the surrounding site are as given below. Our Requirenment :- i. Capacity of the Project :- 11 K.W. ii. Tempreture At. Site :- 30 to 42 degree celcious 325 days in a year.Avg.- 30 above. iii. Rainfall :- Menimun rainfall in the year. iv. Sale of Power :- a) Capitive consumsuption b) Third Party Sale c) Power purchase agreement execute for the period of 13 year.By Government in india In view of above information you are requested to please furnished the Physibility , Project Report & other required data available with you of the above project ( With Cost and generating electricity capacity ). The required Finance for the above project if you are provided as well as we are interested in deal in India Jointely. So we will accept it & your terms & Conditions regarding of the finance please inform to us. We are already established Windmill Project in Maharashtra (India ) & Karnataka State ( India ) details given in our Brief Note. The total amount invested in the Windmill Project around to Rs. 150 Crores out of which Rs. 100 Crores finance by our Bankers. We are interesting for taking the finance from your Company if your rate of interest is less than from our Bankers. The issue will be discuss in length during the actual meeting. An early reply in the matter is highly appreciated . Thanking you. Yours faithfully For Shraddha Constructions & Power Generation Pvt.Ltd. Shivaji B. Jadhav (C.M.D.) Our ID Jadhav_shraddha@yahoo.co.in Shraddhagroup_pune@yahoo.co.in Shraddha_constructionspg@yahoo.co.in If you look at the sign posted on the GGE website as the Suncube facility in India was being built, you will see the registered office of Square Engineering as Shraddha House. So who are Shraddha Constructions which have the same registered address as Square Engineering? Well firstly they have a contract to build a 21.25MW wind farm. They also have a contract to build a USD$18.75M SOLAR project at Latur. Latur have done quite extensive studies into CPV as per this document. Other Links http://www.ircc.iitb.ac.in/~webadm/update/Issue1_2006/solar-concentrator.html http://shraddhaconstruction.com/index.html Shraddha And note the addresses of Shraddha Power Generation and Square Engineering are the same. ES Systems I will not go into too much detail here apart from posting links to Druberts research into this company again. Post on ES Systems ES system was the former ATS solar - See page 59, same address, same company. ATS solar was established 2002/2003. See http://www.iea-pvps.org/ar/ar04/kor.htm : "In 2003, five companies including one that started its operation at the end of 2002, produced about 2.29 MW of PV modules. This nearly tripled the previous year's production figure. This remarkable expansion of PV module production was due to the newly established company ATS Solar Co. This company produced about 1.4 MW PV modules with a production capacity of 3.0 MW. This production line is the largest one in Korea." Or visit an old version of their website before they went quiet to develop this new technology. http://www.essystem.kr/bemarket/shop/index.php?pageurl=viewpage&filename=sub_07 http://www.essystem.co.kr/ http://www.essystem.kr/bemarket/shop/index.php?pageurl=viewpage&filename=sub_06 http://72.32.29.22/solar_photovoltaics/terrestrial_concentrator_photovoltaic_arrays http://www.flickr.com/photos/29964744@N05/show/ Confirmation of ES Systems production facilities by analysts Cannacord and Jeffries Korea is getting into solar in a big way with this 20MW Shinan project and of course relative location of ES Systems is Gwanju City close to Shinan View Larger Map AC Gava AC Gava have, until recently, been somewhat quiet about their developing CPV product lines. Aside from some information early on indicating an association with Sialsol there was little to go on. Although they had apparently responded to one of the investors of Emcore after a very short time. But most recently, AC Gava have posted additional information on their website with one photograph showing a significant array integrated with standard flat plate technology of identical area. This is significant as if they have been able to collect comparitive operational data in this way, advantages or disadvantages of CPV vs Silicon PV will be able to be directly correlated and presented to prospective customers. In addition to this, Sialsol Inversiones Sostensibles, the distributor and investment partner with AC Gava, have been present at a number of CPV and CSP trade shows. In Madrid, Madrid, Seville, and will be attending in February in San Diego. Keefs endgame A few weeks ago, I posted a number of rather innocuous posts which Keef took the opportunity to try to attack my credibility. Of course this did not bother me as I trust the people that read whatever I post will make their own determination of where the truth lies. But unfortunately for Keef, it prompted me to reassess Keef's MO and to try to figure out what his endgame is. My posts are here Post 1 Post 2 Post 3 Post 4 As Keef has used Greg Watson's posts on message boards to attack his credibility, I could not understand why, with all the messages and history Greg had with the Joe Cell (and which some would consider a genuine scam), apart from one time, Keef has NEVER used anything from the Joe Cell MB. And there is a lot there as I have demonstrated above. So this got me thinking that as I knew Keef had a business in the Lismore area, the Joe Cell inventors lived in Nimbin and Keef also lived on a commune, that maybe there is something there. Remember this comment? I am presently living on a multiple occupancy community with 70 plus members (no mains electricity available). So a little more digging was in order. First of all Keef did have a solar business, which was registered as Solartech Genius. After performing a Google search on solartechgenius two documents come to light indicating the business did in fact have a website. Solar Hot Water and Winter SunFact Sheet. Tracing back the way back machine we find the following pages: Main page with Keith's email address Some detail on the product range It seems though in February of 2005, the companies main product supplier, Solco from Western Australia was acquired by another party and the distributorship for NSW was no longer an exclusive arrangement. A very unfortunate occurrence, however a business one. From here I guess Mr Leech began looking for alternative means of income. Being within a short distance from Nimbin and living in a multiple occupancy community as exists almost exclusively in Nimbin, and having worked in the solar field and keen to continue to do so, it is not too great a stretch of the imagination to suggest that Keith may have known of the Rainbow Power Company, their Joe Cell invention and Solar business and been in contact with them. So the next search then is on Leech and the Joe Cell and a very interesting hit came up. It seems a guy by the name of Andrew Leech from Floppy Sponge Automation had at some stage sent an email to Sterling (remember PesWiki, New Energy Congress) indicating an interest in the Joe Cell technology. Andrew Leech (Reporter): Suspicious Deaths of Inventors in Australia From: Andrew Leech To: sterlingda@pureener gysystems. com Sent: November 02, 2006 Subject: BJ Proton Cell Hello, I'm Andrew Leech from Floppy Sponge Automation in Melbourne, Australia. I've been a keen experimenter in a number of energy areas for some time now, both privately and through FSA. I'm especially interested in the Joe Cell and could help in a setting up a reliable demonstration model of the Proton Cell variant as well as helping to spread and promote the technology... [Deleted]... I personally believe if we can have development undertaken relatively quietly through supportive channels such as PES Network, and produce a number of engines running this way privately, then distribute them quietly aver a large area (Colin at FSA has numerous contacts right across Australia, Malaysia and Taiwan), when it is announced publicly it will already be out there too widely to be hushed up. I've heard reliable confirmations of suspicious deaths on inventors in Australia, so don't want to take the threat lightly. If we can have a large group of replications all announced simultaneously we have a chance of getting around that threat... [Deleted]... Regards, Andrew Leech Floppy Sponge Automation 12 Birch Ave Dandenong Nth, Vic, Australia 3148 http://www.floppyspongeonline.com Maybe an innocent post. But take note of the suggestion to Sterling to develop this Joe Cell technology with FSA and Peswiki "quietly" so no one knows what is going on. Also if we go back even further, we see Andrew and Floppy Sponge Automation have been doing some experiments with over-unity devices for the past few years, as well as working on hydrogen based ideas looking for 'free energy'. Here is a link to the relevant posts as otherwise you have to subscribe. I would suggest this is where a lot of the ideas for the attacks on Greg Watsons credibility originated. So who are floppyspongeonline.com? Seems they have been purchased by Sunseeker Energy from Hong Kong. The registration of the Sunseekerenergy site comes up with these details. Domain Name: SUNSEEKERENERGY.COM Created on: 17-Dec-06 Expires on: 17-Dec-11 Last Updated on: 14-Dec-08 Administrative Contact: Leech, Andrew andrew@aerga.com.au AERGA Pty. Ltd 12 Birch Ave Dandenong, Victoria 3175 Australia 397959009 View Larger Map I actually visited this address only a few days before Christmas to see if the Google streetview had changed or was out of date. Well it has not, this is exactly how the shop looks. Standing out the front were two guys in business attire who waited for about 10 minutes for another guy dressed in black casual clothes to come and let them in the building. As the front window is one way mirror, you cannot see what is going on inside, but it did seem awfully cloak and dagger as the two business guys did seem a little jumpy as I walked past. So what is Sunseekerenergy? It seems they have an amazing new solar technology (Not the Joe Cell nor Overunity devices). "Sunseeker has succeeded in magnifying the sun's energy onto a radically smaller, non-silicon photovoltaic cell. The combination of parabolic collector and inbuilt computerised sun tracking maximises solar energy collection in an active area less than one third of our flat panel competitors." And their business model is to licence the technology out. You know like Green and Gold Energy. Now remember SZ had access to Greg Watson's preliminary design, business model and Non-Disclosure Agreement. And as there had been no definitive and certainly no professional contact between GGE and Keith Leech, how then did he come across this document as he posted here for the world to see? Or even Keef's continual claims of Greg Watson being in this for the money seem to ring a little hollow when you read the MOU for the JV on the Suncube. Any Licencee by investing money in the enterprise also owns a stake in the master company and will eventually take control over from Greg Watson. Again how, if the only two-way dialog between Keith Leech and GW has been argumentative, did Keef obtain this documentation? To gain an understanding of just how persistent these attacks are, you should consider the raft of ID's Keith Leech and what appear to be his co-conspirators have adopted. Try Madprofessor78, Raving Looney, Keefwivanef, Pigsarse, Blind.freddie, Keefballsofsteel, Roversbreath, Artu.Deetu, Inspectorrex, Nurseratchit, Psychowacker, Wackobananas, Gerryknight, Sickofthiscrap, Greedygoldenergy, Ener-curious – possibly SZ, harrytrotter, wizardsolar, Handy.Ghandi, WatsonPinnocio, Ivorbigone, Majorjohnthomas, Franklin.furter, Rocketsurgeon, Jose_Gava, Thedonkeydonald, Jamespark15, SenatorJoe, Nurseratchit, Nurseratdropping, Shonkeybusiness, totalgibberish. Quite a list for someone claiming to simply just trying to be honest and protecting 'innocent' investors by 'exposing' Greg Watson. At this point I need to tell you I found myself with a personal dilemma. We have Stephen Zorbas who tells us he knows a fair bit about hydrogen and appears to have done some good work in the past (although it is mostly self promotion), an automation company based in Melbourne who at first look may have the capacity to roll this technology out and become a customer of Emcore and Andrew Leech who from his myspace page looks like he is smart, young and keen to take on the world and make a go of CPV technology. So before doing anything, I decided to look a bit more at Sunseeker Energy, who they are, how legitimate their business is, how ethical or trustworthy they may be (despite the tactics above) and where are they going. Firstly they are listing on the NZ stock exchange. Secondly their corporate office is listed as Hong Kong with a telephone number of (852) 3188 5944 When I Googled the telephone number, I came up with another interesting hit of a company registered with the same address as Sunseekerenergy called Fieldway International Ltd. This company promotes itself as offering Premium Socially Responsible Investment Opportunities. So maybe they might be OK? So who are the owners of this company? Bill Price is the President with businesses mainly based in the Phillipines. So what else does Bill do? Seems as well as 'socially responsible investment facilities', Bill also runs Sovereign Star international. Sovereign Star International (SS) is a newly incorporated Hong Kong based company created for the sole purpose of identifying, purchasing, developing and operating gaming properties and facilities throughout South East Asia. Also its General Manager, Graeme Green, is managing director of a recently delisted 'penny stock' on the Australian Stock Exchange called EC21 or ECSI Limited. This has left me in a unenviable position, as we now have a company which on the surface looked like it was trying to do the right thing and yet by digging a little deeper, other business ventures directly contradict the humanitarian aims of the Fieldway International site. Certainly an environmental consciousness is something to be applauded, however is it not hypocritical when considering they are also actively engaged in the casino and gaming industry in developing nations as well as having what appear to be less than fully legitimate concern's listed on the ASX? Further, how ethical is it to defame anothers reputation, the real inventor of the Suncube, some would consider an eccentric (but no more so than Sir James Dyson and his 5,127 bagless vacuum cleaner designs), steal his idea, and then proceed to endeavour to destroy him and a company such as Emcore who have no part of this? And how big a role has Citron Research played in all of this? When one considers exactly who the players in this game of cat and mouse are, to do with a revolutionary or as the CPV Consortium likes to call it "Disruptive" solar technology, it must be something real for such effort to be put in to trying to discredit GGE and Emcore. The Joe Cell people, if they are involved in this, have had 15 years of trying to convince people their technology is real so they know all the angles. Which to me could explain why they have been so successful in convincing so many people that this is a scam if the master scammers are telling the tale. Keef claims he has been trying to warn prospective investors of the dangers, but it certainly looks like the people Keef is associated with that appear to be unethical, dishonest, sneaky, money hungry or to sum it up 'scammers'. But there was one post that sealed the deal for me and it was this one directed at a woman by Keef. Keef threatening a woman tell me where you live, I come around there and bash the crap out of you. That's how it works. Have a nice Christmas. In my opinion, those people investing in Emcore and Emcore itself are the innocent victims here, along with Greg Watson, who did nothing more than to try and spread the news and excitement about a genuine invention, which does in fact look like it will provide us with cheaper solar electricity in the long run. Finally to ensure the correct people address this and properly investigate precisely what has been occurring, I have directed this in an email to the office of Anthony Albanese. Anthony is the current Australian Federal Minister for Infrastructure, Transport, Regional Development and Local Government, who back in January 2006 expressed support for the SunCube and frustration at the Howard governments lack of support for a renewable company in Australia. And why did I post this at all instead of keeping quiet? Well would I trust anyone with my money who sold a possible fantasy product (Joe Cell) to people for 15 years, found out about a new solar technology, proceeded to steal it then destroy the reputation of the guy who had invented it. As well as attacking the company at the forefront of its scientific and commercial development. No way known would I trust a cent of my money to these people as they do not appear to have any ethics at all just know how to run what appears to be a complex scam. But the main reason was in these circumstances, the end does not justify the means. And I am personally sick of a world where this is the case. Its time the 'good guys' won for a while. |
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Subject: Fresh Horse Plop anyone? From: Keef Date: 13 Jul 09 - 02:02 AM TOTAL HORSE PLOP!! Seems it's not JUST confined to down under..... BUT we are world leaders in the industry!!! |
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Subject: RE: SunCube Fiasco From: Keef Date: 13 Jul 09 - 01:46 AM So what happened next you ask? To explain that, I'm afraid I'll have to start from the top.... Very quick version. I saw the new SunBall, SunCube thingy back in about 2006 Oooh that sounds nice I said and placed my order. I was so impressed that I even replied to his "positions vacant" advert on the website. After a whole lot of excuses and BULLSHIT from Greg Watson I started my internet campaign to expose the con. I used several nom de geuerres, dogshitontoast, keefwivanef etc etc. I PROVED that it is a scam and uncovered a whole can of rotten maggots in the green energy industry. Shit hit fan, many millions of dollars wiped off the share value of companies connected to Watsons scam. Did Watson say thank you? No I am afraid not. What he did was to publish my real identity (gleaned from my ordering a SUNCUBE and asking if I could have a job pretty please) His crony Brad Ross then published my life history inclding every thread that I have posted to on the MUDCAT. That was in an attempt to silence the messenger. Now I don't know about you guys but I think it is pretty low down dirty act for the CEO of a Gazillion dollar SCAM to dredge through all of my harmless if eccentric musings on the mudcat. As I say so often to Mr Watson SCREW YOU WATSON............ YOU ARE A DEMENTED SCUMBAG GO AHEAD AND SUE ME I DARE YOU!!! Otherwise I may just have to have a go at you for invasion of privacy and libel. WHERE IS MY FREAKING SUMMONDS WATSON?? Legal action against Keith Leech 31-Jan-09 07:48 am GGE and myself personally are initiating legal action against Keith Leech (Keef, Rover, ect, ect, ect, ect.......) for libel, slander, defamation, for seeking to profit from causing GGE, the SunCube, our SCIG licensees and others a loss of income plus other claims for damages and loss. Keith, this is not a threat. It is reality and we have more than enough proof to file both civil and criminal charges against you. Better enjoy the surfing while you can. It may be a very long time until you see the surf again. BTW we have a LOT of money and the top trial lawyers who just love WINNING this type of action. No Free Lunches Keith. Time to pay. Come to think of it, we might just ask Emcore, their directors and shareholders to join / support us in this action. If anyone, who is / was an Emcore shareholder and believes their investment in Emcore has been / was damaged by Keith Leech's unfounded comments, wishes more information about joining GGE in our Australian actions against Keith Leech, please email me. All the best, Green and Gold Energy Pty., Ltd Greg Watson, CEO 7 Provident Avenue, Glynde, 5070 South Australia, Australia, +61 8 8365 5844 http://www.greenandgoldenergy.com.au He says a bad bad thing!! YOU ARE OUT OF YOUR FREAKING MIND WATSON But wait ...there's more!! EFFECT OF CLOUD COVER ON CPV 7-Jul-09 07:54 pm My friend Watson would have us believe that even in Northern European countries and Scotland! "CPV can really kick butt"" Ahem!! Power fluctuations caused by cloud cover Posted by: "Manu Sharma" manu@orangehues.com saysmanu Mon Jun 18, 2007 3:33 am (PST) A recent Carnegie Mellon study on The Character of Power Output from Utility-Scale Photovoltaic Systems found power output fluctuations of PV systems caused by cloud cover a significant characteristic in US. Since cloud cover affects concentrated solar power even more significantly than flat panels, it will not be an easy problem to solve. Greg has mentioned in the past the various systems he intends to put in place to address this, such as, round the clock weather monitoring and standby generators. While that may well be right path to pursue, from the complexity and the scale of the problem it appears to me that it will not be 2-3 years before we get remote generation working reliably. Excerpt from the study follows: "The intermittency of large-scale PV power for four sites in the American southwest desert is significant, even during daylight hours. These data also imply that site diversity over a ~280 km range does not dampen PV intermittency sufficiently to eliminate the need for substantial firm power or dispatchable demand response. The high correlation between geographically dispersed arrays may indicate that high, widespread clouds are responsible for a portion of the intermittency. Observed rapid and deep fluctuations at time scales of 10 seconds to several minutes may indicate that a component of the intermittency is due to low, scattered clouds with significant opacity. We observe a number of examples of output power rising above nameplate capacity before and after deep drops in power. This may be due to focusing of sunlight around the edges of low clouds." http://wpweb2.tepper.cmu.edu/ceic/papers... Username: ceicpaper Password: EnergyResearch --- Greg Watson > What unpredictable 200 MW fluctuation? Not with our visual cloud predictive technology that > gives well in advance of 1 hours notice of output variations. BTW Nemmco, the Australian > national grid controller, dispatched generators (turns them on and off) on a 5 minute basis to > match generation with load. > > Greg Re: Power fluctuations caused by cloud cover Posted by: "Manu Sharma" manu@orangehues.com saysmanu Wed Jun 20, 2007 8:07 am (PST) From: Dave Kimble Greg That's dodging the question on a technicality of wording. The point is, if you might or might not be producing 300 MW at peak time next Wednesday doesn't the grid have to have 300 MW of spinning reserve ready to cope with that ? A gas turbine or hydro could respond in time, but they have to have that infrastructure in place, fuelled up and maintained, without much opportunity to recoup costs, and hence an expensive standby option. Greg, That's exactly my point. Unless you have energy storage, any standby generation capacity would only sit idle at the time of clear sky. I'm also not sure how these generators would deal with intermittent supply during the cloud cover. See graphs in the paper I originally cited (username: ceicpaper, password: EnergyResearch). Btw, I find it interesting that within two days your technology to warn grid operators of an impending cloud cover doubled its warning time from 30 minutes to 1 hour and got a name too. "Visual cloud predictive technology." Manu Rating : (5 Ratings) You have rated keefwivanef View Messages Ignore User Report Abuse Re: EFFECT OF CLOUD COVER ON CPV 7-Jul-09 08:01 pm Hows that smear career you have as a reverse salesman aimed at denigrating CPV going Keef? Rating : (3 Ratings) You have rated unenergy73 View Messages Ignore User Report Abuse Re: EFFECT OF CLOUD COVER ON CPV 7-Jul-09 08:08 pm Darb ouy knaht llew yrev gniog s'ti. SUNPUBES IN SCOTLAND...yeah right!! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Keef tries to stop Scammers down under From: Keef Date: 12 Jul 09 - 06:20 PM If you can't beat them...... Keefwivanef 05/31/09 7:41 PM " Hi Everyone My company PIGSARSE SOLAR CPV has invented a wonderful new solar thingie. It is made entirely from recycled Bull Excrement and will generate lots of Gigglewatts of Elektric and can cook a turkey all at the same time. Please send me all your money now because I really like money and that. PIGSARSE SOLAR>>>>SAVING THE PLANET FOR OUR CHILDREN's CHILDREN> Thank you for your attention!! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Keef tries to stop Scammers down under From: Keef Date: 12 Jul 09 - 05:48 PM Thanks Micca. Don't know how the confusion could have arisen! My friends (very few) call me Keef I call myself Keef Wivanef cos it's much easier to say. I made a promise to Greg Watson that I would follow him all over the internet and expose his scam. I succeeded beyond my imaginings. Watson sucked in a major USA company which is now the subject of a court action alleging inside trading and stock manipulation. All caused by the evil scheming of the mad professor Mr Gregory Watson. Shareholders RIPPED OFF Along the way I stumbled across lots of other companies running similar scams. They are all preying on the good nature and technical naivety of "green investors" Here is the latest BULLSHIT from Watson GGE has placed the largest CPV industry order to date for 105 MWs of Emcore's world leading 1,000 sun concentrator cells to support our worldwide SCIG licensees and to build SunCube™ Energy Farms around the world. GGE have increased our CPV 1,000 Sun CPV receiver orders on Emcore to 215 MWs or 6.2 million 1,000 Sun CPV receivers in total. Emcore provides the world's first 20 year CPV receiver warranty for the GGE SunCube. SunCube™ International Group (SCIG) With our current round of SunCube™ patenting activities shortly coming to a close, GGE will again be in the position to initiate discussions with interested parties which wish to visit GGE in beautiful Adelaide, South Australia and investigate joining the SCIG group of international SunCube™ licensees. Licensing opportunities can include JV's, distribution, assembly, manufacturing rights or any mix. License entry point is US$25,000 for 5 SunCubes™ installed and commissioned on the Licensees site by GGE. In addition GGE provides 1- 2 weeks of on site technical training, information transfer, local market analysis, etc to assist the new Licensee moving into the next Distribution stage. The SunCube™ International Group (SCIG) is currently composed of 9 companies which have secured SunCube™ rights in many countries. For more information about becoming a part of the growing SCIG organization please click here. ES System Korea Energies AC Gava Spain Portugal Andorra Square Engineering India Bangladesh Bhutan Mauritius Sri Lanka Nepal Zolar Distributors Australia New Zealand South Pacific Islands License agreement in place, company to be announced USA East coast Virgin Islands License agreement in place, company to be announced USA West coast License agreement in place, company to be announced Italy Hungary License agreement in place, company to be announced Bulgaria Macedonia Romania Greece Turkey Switzerland France All of the countries of the former USSR All of the countries of the former Yugoslavia License agreement in place, company to be announced Nigeria All the rest of Africa, excepting South Africa and the countries adjourning the Mediterranean Sea Complete and utter BULLSHIT!! He has only got three dollars to his name, and he bludged that off his neighbours. Suncube, sunpubes, sunsneekers.....It is all BOLLOCKS. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Keef tries to stop Scammers down under From: Micca Date: 12 Jul 09 - 08:42 AM Keef, The person they may be getting you confused with is this Keith Leech who is a friend of mine involved with Hastings Traditonal Jack in The Green here in the UK |
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Subject: RE: BS: Keef tries to stop Scammers down under From: Keef Date: 11 Jul 09 - 09:51 PM Mind you, could be worse, at least he didn't say that I played the Bodhran! |
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Subject: BS: Keef tries to stop Scammers down under From: Keef Date: 11 Jul 09 - 09:20 PM You may have seen my thread SUNCUBE FIASCO thread.cfm?threadid=102146&messages=8 I sent off a complaint to ASIC the Australian Securities and Investment Commission. After about a year they replied that they could not take any action at this time. Recently we had the great FIREPOWER SCAM Once again ASIC was warned but did NOTHING. So, the way it stands now is that any Australian company can start up one of these scams. All they have to do is CLAIM that they have a new invention ( green or solar is a good field in which to operate) Then they can make wild unproven claims and lure in investors. My original target Mr Greg Watson of the infamous SunCube is still going with his scam. He has operations in India and Korea which have set up showpiece "solar farms" complete with hidden batteries to dupe the innocent. Mum and Dad investors are now being eagerly sought. Because Watson is just a trifle annoyed with me for spoiling his scam he has now resorted to publishing my full name which is Keith Edward Leech and quoting some of my other mudcat posts in an attempt to discredit me. Fair enough I suppose. Now, I don't mind the sticks and stones BUT he really went to far when he and his accomplices called me a MORRIS DANCER!!! Not that I've got anything against Morris dancers BUT ...he has got me confused with another feller by that name the wrong Keith Would the real morris dancing Keith care to step forward and defend his reputation? Here is the latest one to get on the bandwagon Latest Aussie Solar Scammer Same deal, just a mock-up of a "too good to be true" device ZERO products sold but millions of dollars raised from small investors and the sharemarket. Legal? Apparently so Honest? Of course not What can I say, except perhaps...AAAAAAAAARRRRGH!! Regards to all...and remember...if it SOUNDS too good to be true!! |
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Subject: RE: SunCube Fiasco From: GUEST,Keef Date: 06 May 09 - 05:25 PM Tell us more Sunny I am still battling it out with Wacko Watson on the Yahoo finance board. Here's my latest effort the thread is called BIG FAT LIE. BIG FAT LIE BTW you should read all about the Firepower scam Firepower scam Australia is the world leader in these sort of scams because our laws are weak and NOT ENFORCED. I have reported Watson to ASIC and as usual they will do nothing because there is not 100% proof. In the meantime it is CARRY ON SCAMMING. Believe me this is just the tip of the iceberg, there are many other companies cashing in on the environmental concern. If they're green....rip em off...AAAAAARRRGH! |
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Subject: RE: SunCube Fiasco From: GUEST,Sunny Date: 06 May 09 - 12:08 AM Geez I'm glad I found this blog. I was just about to sign up for a minimum order of 100 units. Cheers Keef. |
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Subject: RE: SunCube Fiasco From: Keef Date: 15 Feb 09 - 05:27 PM Hello...I'm back again. Just in case anyone is interested, here is an update on the SunPube fiasco. Greg Watson managed to suck in a USA company called Emcore that supply the 3J photocells needed for a SunPube type device. Watson convinced them that he would be buying hundreds of millions of dollars worth of photocells. Emcore proudly boasted about these orders and their shareprice went UP (a lot!) Then Keef spilled the beans...and the share price went DOWN (a lot) Shareholders REALLY don't like Keef Shareholders launch a class action against Emcore and say bad things about Watson Class action detail of complaint All this....and still not a single SunPube available for purchase anywhere in the world. Despite many complaints to ASIC and other authorities, these blatant scammers persist. Here are 2 more of my favourites Lutec Cycclone and then there was the Firepower Fiasco FIREPOWER What can I say......AAAAARRGH! |
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Subject: RE: SunCube Fiasco From: GUEST,Hoff Date: 28 Oct 08 - 12:51 PM Oh yeah, the CHEERS article was authored Hoff, (still pissed at greg here in the caribbean)............... |
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Subject: RE: SunCube Fiasco From: Keef Date: 28 Oct 08 - 07:12 AM Hello again Hoff, sorry I forgot to respond to your call for help. Let's start with the basics. Solar is too expensive to be a viable option for the majority of people. Price has always been about $10 per watt, even shopping around for the best possible price you are still looking at about $5 a watt. (compare this with a 1Kw Chinese petrol generator available for say $300...plus some petrol of course). Even with (inefficient) government subsidies the amount of solar installed is minuscule. So along came CPV. The hope was that by using a small area of (expensive) high efficiency triple junction photocell, the price could be reduced. Problem is that the cost of reliable accurate tracking devices that are required mean the cost per watt is not that much lower. High temperatures and thermal cycling stresses mean that there is some doubt about the long term durability and serviceability. Add to this the many dodgy operators like GGE and Sunrgi who have made hugely exaggerated performance claims. A number of frustrated would be Sunpube buyers started a self help forum SunGrid If you go to the start of that forum you can see the many ideas that were kicked around. Unfortunately it fizzled out after Watson started "contributing" and is now heavily censored because the forum owner doesn't want to upset Watson. I'd love to see the price/performance of solar follow the same pattern of Personal Computers and consumer electronics and improve by many orders of magnitude. I don't really believe there is a conspiracy by manufacturers to keep the price high. The price is headed downwards but we really need to get down to about $1 a watt before we'll have a huge public take up of solar. I'm still working on the problem and I'll be happy to help you if and when I can find the breakthrough idea. BTW I have a friend in Belise which is in your part of the world. He knows a lot about solar also. Good luck with it all. Keef |
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Subject: RE: SunCube Fiasco From: Keef Date: 28 Oct 08 - 02:21 AM Things seem to have gone rather quiet at the Suncube factory. Doors are locked at the Suncube factory Due to a cargo cult mentality which has affected many would be purchasers of the Sunpube I have been censored on many forums and some folks have called me a "psycho stalker" etc. I thought this was a million dollar scam but I was wrong. It is a BILLION dollar scam. Start here! Suncube....nightmare on Wall Street |
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Subject: RE: SunCube Fiasco From: Keef Date: 28 Oct 08 - 02:07 AM Hi Hoff Yes the suncube by the containerload did sound good. My friend Brian thought so and had the following exchange with Watson Attn General Manager GGE Dear Sir I represent a community wind power project based in North Yorkshire UK. We have the funding and land available to create a wind farm but we have unfortunately run into some opposition because of the visual impact and possible noise problems. I have been following the progress of the Sunball/ Suncube since watching a television program which showed how the device works. We are in an area of Yorkshire which enjoys more sunshine year round than almost any other part of the UK. We are interested in setting up a trial solar farm utilising your Suncubes. There is some urgency with this matter because since the proposed wind farm can not proceed, we may in fact lose the funding and grants that we have allocated for the project. I have visited your website and noticed that you do have a limited number of Suncubes available for immediate delivery. Could you please provide more details on the cost per unit, and advise what is the earliest date that you will be able to ship the products. Regards Brian Edwards North Yorkshire Power Cooperative Reply from Greg Watson reply-to Greg Watson to Brian Edwards date Sun, May 4, 2008 at 8:27 PM subject Re: proposed solar farm UK hide details 8:27 PM (11 hours ago) Reply Hi Brian, GGE are now taking orders for and shipping bulk SunCubes at the lowest $ / Watt PV cost on the planet. Such is the power of CPV. Here is what we quote: =================== Thanks for the enquiry about bulk SunCube pricing and availability. You should note that GGE will not sell / deliver SunCubes to any country assigned to GGE's SCIG licenses. Bulk SunCube prices are: 1) US$1,050 each for 200 SunCubes 2) US$990 each for 1,000 SunCubes 3) US$950 each for 2,000 SunCubes and greater Prices are FOB our factory in Glynde. Payment terms are via LC (irrevocable at sight) via TT (40% with order and 60% on shipment). Limited warranty is 5 years on parts and workmanship with a CPV receiver manufacturers warranty on degraded output of max 20% loss after 20 years. Shipment for the first 200 SunCubes is 60 day after receipt of order and payment. For orders of greater than 200 SunCubes we will advise the shipping schedule in lots of 200 SunCubes. SunCube shipping can be scheduled over a max of 3 months, if so desired, as long as the min is 200 SunCubes per shipment. As each SunCube is equivalent to 500 Watts of fixed flat panels, in terms of annual kWhs produced, these prices are world best and rate the SunCube as the lowest cost producer of solar kWhs that can be bought today. US$1.90 per flat panel effective Watt. No other solar technology that you can buy today can come close. Don't forget the SunCube INCLUDES a smart 2 axis tracker that minimizes cleaning and storm damage by stowing with the lenses facing down overnight. All the best, Green and Gold Energy Pty., Ltd Greg Watson, CEO 7 Provident Avenue, Glynde, 5070 South Australia, Australia, +61 8 8365 5844 http://www.greenandgoldenergy.com.au from Brian Edwards to Greg Watson date Mon, May 5, 2008 at 8:10 AM subject Re: proposed solar farm UK mailed-by googlemail.com hide details 8:10 AM (6 minutes ago) Reply Hello Greg Thank you for your reply, the Suncube does look as if it will be ideal for our needs. Could you please send a copy of the warranty documents as our shareholders will be requiring that. We will also be needing a copy of the performance specifications. If these are satisfactory then we intend to place an immediate order for 1000 Suncubes for our solar farm. If these perform as expected then we anticipate expanding the project to produce 1 Megawatt peak. Thank you for your assistance Brian Edwards North Yorkshire Power Cooperative Hi Brian, Sorry but we don't do samples. The output data is in the IV curve. http://www.greenandgoldenergy.com.au/Documents/Eko20080421_093622.pdf Lead time is as stated. For annual kWh production we use the sites annual DNI times 35%. SunCube spacing is generally 2 mtrs NS and 3 mtrs EW. The SunCube mounts into a 2 mtr long section of galvanized water pipe which is set 1.3 mtrs into the ground. It can be pile driven in firm soil. I have attached photos of the Azimuth drive, tracker PCB and off axis shield. Each SunCube has an inbuilt 2 axis smart tracker. Max operational wind loading is 125 kph. Stow, which is lenses pointing at the ground, can withstand 200 kph. Stow with lenses down also reduces lens cleaning and bad weather damage All the best, Green and Gold Energy Pty., Ltd Greg Watson, CEO 7 Provident Avenue, Glynde, 5070 South Australia, Australia, +61 8 8365 5844 http://www.greenandgoldenergy.com.au ----- Original Message ----- From: Brian Edwards - Show quoted text - To: Greg Watson Sent: Monday, May 05, 2008 7:40 AM Subject: Re: proposed solar farm UK Hello Greg Thank you for your reply, the Suncube does look as if it will be ideal for our needs. Could you please send a copy of the warranty documents as our shareholders will be requiring that. We will also be needing a copy of the performance specifications. If these are satisfactory then we intend to place an immediate order for 1000 Suncubes for our solar farm. If these perform as expected then we anticipate expanding the project to produce 1 Megawatt peak. Thank you for your assistance Brian Edwards North Yorkshire Power Cooperative DSC01373.JPG 138K View Download DSC01363.JPG 144K View Download DSC01370.JPG 141K View Download DSC01371.JPG 129K View Download DSC01372.JPG 154K View Download Reply Forward Brian Edwards to Greg show details 6:00 PM (37 minutes ago) Reply Hello Greg Thank you for your prompt reply. I am very impressed with your design which is clearly a big improvement on the other products on the market. The DNI figure for our location is 2.4 Kwh per day so that yearly energy will be (x365 x 0.35) = 307 Kwh per year. This does look like very good cost/ performance. As the project coordinator I have a responsibility to the shareholders to ensure that their money is wisely spent. Are you able to provide any reassurance that the Kwhours as calculated are achievable. What is the situation with repair and warranty claims. Do you have an agent in UK? Thank you for your assistance Brian Edwards If you would like to see the wonderful photographs go to flickr.com and enter suncube. My friend roversbreath has posted some nice photos. |
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Subject: RE: SunCube Fiasco From: GUEST,hoff Date: 26 Oct 08 - 05:32 PM Keef... interesting blog talk with Greg. I was about to order a container of suncubes from his company, however after many unreplied requests for more info, I decided to dig a little deeper. Thats when I came across your conversations. WOW, what a fucking mistake that would have been.... Our company has a factory, in which we would like to produce low cost solar for many of the poor here in the Caribbean. Any help you can offer will be appreciated. Hoff |
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Subject: RE: SunCube Fiasco From: Keef Date: 25 Oct 08 - 10:17 PM I think that Greg has finally realised he can't win. I have had some interesting conversations with him on this board and many others. I still don't have my "summonds from his legal council" To catch up on his most recent outpourings of pseudoscience click here Watson's whoppers |
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Subject: RE: SunCube Fiasco From: GUEST,hoff Date: 24 Oct 08 - 10:56 AM I was intrigued with the suncube concept, but would like to ask a question of greg,(since you do not return my emails) The claim is that 5 or 6 cubes will supply power to an average home. Excuse my ignorance, however if the typical american home uses 25 kw per day, how is it that 5 500 watt cubes will supply enough power? |
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Subject: RE: SunCube Fiasco From: Keef Date: 10 Aug 08 - 02:25 AM But wait.....there's more http://www.citronresearch.com/index.php?s=emcore&submit=Search |
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Subject: RE: SunCube Fiasco From: Keef Date: 10 Aug 08 - 02:04 AM Ballad of Greg Watson Lyric update The Ballad of Greg Watson 8-Aug-08 06:59 pm Come and listen to a story Bout a man named Greg A poor old aging scammer Barely kept his fambly fed And then one day he was looking at his roof Said I'll dream me up a sunball And I'll say that it's the troof Well the sunball turned to suncube And to mark two three four five And the money kept on flowing It felt good to be alive But those customers kept asking When those suncubes they'd be getting And they started asking questions Bout the things Greg kept forgettin Like....Proof Greg Simple proof Taint hard Well now Greg he chucked a wobbly And he said you won't be gettin Not a single bloody suncube Cos it's secret...I'm not tellin But youse can all still buy a share In my solar funny farm And I'm keepin all the money So there's no cause for alarm Gold Green and Gold YEE HARRRR! Well Greg he's building factries In Indya and Korea But Keef he said Hey Greg..just cut the crap And get on out of here Your proposals are preposterous Your aim is very clear So take your stupid Suncubes And insert them in your rear! Segue Know when to hold em Know when to fold em! Pssst Wanna buy the entire GGE operation Zolar pulled out of the deal, couldn't afford the three dollars! Oh Lordy, where to start? Mebbe try here http://messages.finance.yahoo.com/Stocks_%28A_to_Z%29/Stocks_E/threadview?m=tm&bn=6046&tid=33914&mid=33914&tof=1&rt=2&frt=2&off= Or here> http://www.citronresearch.com/index.php/2008/03/25/citron-research-updates-emcore-nasdaqemkr/ Will the fun never end? Keef |
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Subject: RE: SunCube Fiasco From: Keef Date: 19 Mar 08 - 01:14 AM It took a long while but I FINALLY got their attention!! Gigantic Solar Scam Down Under The power of Mudcat!!! Keef |
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Subject: RE: SunCube Fiasco From: Keef Date: 01 Feb 08 - 02:21 AM Well the story continues update on the sorry suncube saga Follow thread forward or back for a ripping yarn! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Solar Scammer down under From: Keef Date: 18 Jan 08 - 03:41 PM Sorry folks...should have just carried on with the old thread. Naked grab for publicity in an attempt to put an end to the scam. (mudcat gets up on Google much quicker than the SunGrid thread ever does) Can I have this thread tacked on to Suncube Fiasco pretty please. BTW I found waybackmachine A fantastically useful place to go. Love to all Keef |
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Subject: RE: BS: Solar Scammer down under From: Grab Date: 18 Jan 08 - 01:14 PM Here comes the new toss, Same as the old toss... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Solar Scammer down under From: jeffp Date: 18 Jan 08 - 09:02 AM Here is the original thread. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Solar Scammer down under From: Geoff the Duck Date: 18 Jan 08 - 04:41 AM How much you charging for the Harbour Bridge? Does it include shipping? Quack! GtD. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Solar Scammer down under From: Amos Date: 17 Jan 08 - 04:12 PM Keef -- didn't you already have a long thread about this, with counterpoint from the accused? 'S up wid dat, man? A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Solar Scammer down under From: Peace Date: 17 Jan 08 - 04:08 PM There was a thread on this a while back. Is this gonna be SSDD? |
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Subject: BS: Solar Scammer down under From: Keef Date: 17 Jan 08 - 03:11 PM Wanna buy the Harbour Bridge? Well this man goes one better! Suncube ripoff |
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Subject: RE: SunCube Fiasco From: Keef Date: 26 Aug 07 - 03:09 AM Hello again folks (and Greg) I've been busy having a life and trying to ignore the Suncube lunacy. However, the latest installment is just too good to keep to myself. If you go to Suncube Fantasy You will see that Greg is claiming to have ordered 120 Mwatts of solar cells for use in his Suncubes. This would be sufficient to produce 400,000 Suncubes at a price of ($1500 each as stated previously) making a total of 600 million dollars! Not bad for an unregistered small trader. But wait there's more! The photograph shows his "test area" which is the roof of his shed. Bit late for the testing Greg...you've allready committed to building 400,000. Anyway the photograph nicely demonstrates the stupidity of his plan. We see a row of poles about 2 metres apart aligned East West. Because the photocells are connected in series in each Suncube, even a partial shadow will cause the output to drop to zero. I'd love to see what happens in the early morning and late afternoon, the tracking mechanism will be going beserk! Should look like a row of clowns at Luna park. This is all good stuff but still not as good as the latest on Greg's very own bullshit bulletin. He has been invited to USA to advise Al Gore. He has meet up with the Prince of Saudi Arabia?? And now this classic Here you go....quote (sorry if it's a big mess but Greg can't be bothered to edit) SunCube Solar Appliance Messages In This Digest (11 Messages) 1a. Re: Now Eat Your Words From: Marcello Vella 1b. Re: Now Eat Your Words From: Greg Watson 1c. Re: Now Eat Your Words From: Marcello Vella 1d. Re: Now Eat Your Words From: Greg Watson 1e. China From: Bernie Meyer 1f. Re: China From: Greg Watson 1g. Re: China From: Bernie Meyer 1h. Re: China From: Greg Watson 2a. transport costs From: Dave Kimble 2b. Re: transport costs From: Greg Watson 2c. Re: transport costs From: Dave Kimble View All Topics | Create New Topic Messages 1a. Re: Now Eat Your Words Posted by: "Marcello Vella" cello.vella@yahoo.it cello.vella Fri Aug 24, 2007 2:18 am (PST) Greg, excuse me for asking, but what has cell availability got to do with; Changing factories IEC certification Producing in China Changing Direction a million times setting up of demo site So where is the business plan? What about the effect of these changes on your business partners and the agreements you said you have signed with them to manufacture suncubes locally. Does your anouncement of producing in China scrupper all these agreements? Is everyone just a doormat? Cello Greg Watson Dave, As I said at the time, there were issues with cell availability. Now that is behind us and we are going into high volume production with Australian distribution being set-up. Greg ----- Original Message ----- From: Dave Kimble To: sunball@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, August 24, 2007 10:19 AM Subject: Re: [Sunball] Now Eat Your Words I can't believe this is your attitude. Don't you agree the web site is amateurish ? It is your shop window - it is where the journo went. Don't you think they might have expected at least to see a video of the thing working and reams about how many you have sold, and what price and power, and where you can get them ? If you could have had the production line up and running when you said you would, and fulfilled all the orders for people that were clamouring for them, and had demonstration trailers at trade fairs, etc, like you said you would, you would have a success to point at and something to complain about with the paper. Instead on launch day you announced you were changing factories, then that they wouldn't be for sale to the public at all, then you harangued the very people who were your customers for being upset, then you announced that they WOULD be for sale to the public after all, when the certification was ready, then that you weren't going to wait for certification, then that you were having them made in China. Promises much, but hasn't made it to market yet. Dave ----- Original Message ----- From: Greg Watson To: sunball@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, August 24, 2007 9:50 AM Subject: Re: [Sunball] Now Eat Your Words They claimed they did nothing wrong and saw no reason to actually call us. I suggest they will get a few questions from their readers as well. Oh well that is one magazine which will not be getting any of our advertising money. Greg ----- Original Message ----- From: Bernie Meyer To: sunball@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, August 24, 2007 8:54 AM Subject: Re: [Sunball] Now Eat Your Words What about a retraction or correction? Surely that wouldn't take up too much space? Greg Watson We asked them how they came to that conclusion. They said they checked the web site, concluded nothing was happening and wrote the words. They never even bothered to give us the courtesy of a phone call and ask what was happening. They claimed they saw no reason to take the time to call. Sloppy journalism at best. We have offered them to come, have a look and write a proper review but so far they say they don't have enough room in the next edition. Greg ----- Original Message ----- From: Bernie Meyer To: sunball@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2007 10:08 PM Subject: [Sunball] Now Eat Your Words From Bumper Issue 100 of ReNew, p.77 The misses of sustainability Sunballs, suncubes ... A collection of esoteric solar collectors that promised much but the market didn't buy it. --------------------------------- Be a better Heartthrob. Get better relationship answers from someone who knows. Yahoo! Answers - Check it out. --------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.484 / Virus Database: 269.12.2/967 - Release Date: 22/08/2007 6:51 PM --------------------------------- Looking for a deal? Find great prices on flights and hotels with Yahoo! FareChase. --------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.484 / Virus Database: 269.12.4/969 - Release Date: 23/08/2007 4:04 PM _____________________________________________________ This mail has been virus scanned by Lizzy Internet see http://www.lizzy.com.au/mailscanning --------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.484 / Virus Database: 269.12.2/967 - Release Date: 22/08/2007 6:51 PM --------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.484 / Virus Database: 269.12.4/969 - Release Date: 23/08/2007 4:04 PM --------------------------------- --------------------------------- L'email della prossima generazione? Puoi averla con la nuova Yahoo! Mail Back to top Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post Messages in this topic (25) 1b. Re: Now Eat Your Words Posted by: "Greg Watson" greg.watson@greenandgoldenergy.com.au greenandgoldenergy Fri Aug 24, 2007 2:42 am (PST) See my answers below. Greg ----- Original Message ----- From: Marcello Vella To: sunball@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, August 24, 2007 4:47 PM Subject: Re: [Sunball] Now Eat Your Words Greg, Excuse me for asking, but what has cell availability got to do with; Changing factories ## There is no way possible we could have manufactured the quantity of SunCube we need in Australia. As for the SCIG licensees they can now choose to fast track with fully assembled SunCubes, full component kits or just selected components as they desire. I can assure you they see this move as very supportative of their business. IEC certification ## IEC 62108 has still not been ratified so there is no IEC certification. We have decided not to wait and to go into markets that don't need the certification. Producing in China ## Very significant capacity to fast track building 2 - 3 million SunCubes a year with a quality oriented experienced Australian partner. Our Xiamen JV is 100% Australian owned and operated. Changing Direction a million times ## A little overstated. We never withdrew from the SCIG licenses just withdrew from direct GGE retail. Now Australian and other worldwide distributors, which no longer need to manufacture, can come on board. This will actually deliver volume SunCubes into more peoples hands that GGE doing in ourself. Setting up of demo site ## On our rooftop and soon all around the world. Watch this space for the exclusive TV launch on Today Tonight (Australian channel 7). So where is the business plan? ## What you want to invest? Why would I disclose our business plan to anyone but an serious investor? But yes we do have a very solid business plan with independent verification of our figures. BTW we are NOT looking for investors. What about the effect of these changes on your business partners and the agreements you said you have signed with them to manufacture suncubes locally. Does your anouncement of producing in China scrupper all these agreements? ## Nope, no way. It actually assists the SCIG guys to fast track SunCube in their countries and get quick traction in their markets. Is everyone just a doormat? ## No but they are a customer who is always right. Cello ## Greg Greg Watson Dave, As I said at the time, there were issues with cell availability. Now that is behind us and we are going into high volume production with Australian distribution being set-up. Greg ----- Original Message ----- From: Dave Kimble To: sunball@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, August 24, 2007 10:19 AM Subject: Re: [Sunball] Now Eat Your Words I can't believe this is your attitude. Don't you agree the web site is amateurish ? It is your shop window - it is where the journo went. Don't you think they might have expected at least to see a video of the thing working and reams about how many you have sold, and what price and power, and where you can get them ? If you could have had the production line up and running when you said you would, and fulfilled all the orders for people that were clamouring for them, and had demonstration trailers at trade fairs, etc, like you said you would, you would have a success to point at and something to complain about with the paper. Instead on launch day you announced you were changing factories, then that they wouldn't be for sale to the public at all, then you harangued the very people who were your customers for being upset, then you announced that they WOULD be for sale to the public after all, when the certification was ready, then that you weren't going to wait for certification, then that you were having them made in China. Promises much, but hasn't made it to market yet. Dave ----- Original Message ----- From: Greg Watson To: sunball@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, August 24, 2007 9:50 AM Subject: Re: [Sunball] Now Eat Your Words They claimed they did nothing wrong and saw no reason to actually call us. I suggest they will get a few questions from their readers as well. Oh well that is one magazine which will not be getting any of our advertising money. Greg ----- Original Message ----- From: Bernie Meyer To: sunball@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, August 24, 2007 8:54 AM Subject: Re: [Sunball] Now Eat Your Words What about a retraction or correction? Surely that wouldn't take up too much space? Greg Watson We asked them how they came to that conclusion. They said they checked the web site, concluded nothing was happening and wrote the words. They never even bothered to give us the courtesy of a phone call and ask what was happening. They claimed they saw no reason to take the time to call. Sloppy journalism at best. We have offered them to come, have a look and write a proper review but so far they say they don't have enough room in the next edition. Greg ----- Original Message ----- From: Bernie Meyer To: sunball@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2007 10:08 PM Subject: [Sunball] Now Eat Your Words From Bumper Issue 100 of ReNew, p.77 The misses of sustainability Sunballs, suncubes ... A collection of esoteric solar collectors that promised much but the market didn't buy it. Be a better Heartthrob. Get better relationship answers from someone who knows. Yahoo! Answers - Check it out. No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.484 / Virus Database: 269.12.2/967 - Release Date: 22/08/2007 6:51 PM Looking for a deal? Find great prices on flights and hotels with Yahoo! FareChase. No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.484 / Virus Database: 269.12.4/969 - Release Date: 23/08/2007 4:04 PM _____________________________________________________ This mail has been virus scanned by Lizzy Internet see http://www.lizzy.com.au/mailscanning No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.484 / Virus Database: 269.12.2/967 - Release Date: 22/08/2007 6:51 PM No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.484 / Virus Database: 269.12.4/969 - Release Date: 23/08/2007 4:04 PM L'email della prossima generazione? Puoi averla con la nuova Yahoo! Mail No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.484 / Virus Database: 269.12.4/969 - Release Date: 23/08/2007 4:04 PM Back to top Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post Messages in this topic (25) 1c. Re: Now Eat Your Words Posted by: "Marcello Vella" cello.vella@yahoo.it cello.vella Fri Aug 24, 2007 7:07 am (PST) ***See replies below Cello Greg Watson See my answers below. Greg ----- Original Message ----- From: Marcello Vella To: sunball@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, August 24, 2007 4:47 PM Subject: Re: [Sunball] Now Eat Your Words Greg, Excuse me for asking, but what has cell availability got to do with; Changing factories ## There is no way possible we could have manufactured the quantity of SunCube we need in Australia. As for the SCIG licensees they can now choose to fast track with fully assembled SunCubes, full component kits or just selected components as they desire. I can assure you they see this move as very supportative of their business. *** so what happened to the robotic lines? IEC certification ## IEC 62108 has still not been ratified so there is no IEC certification. We have decided not to wait and to go into markets that don't need the certification. Producing in China ## Very significant capacity to fast track building 2 - 3 million SunCubes a year with a quality oriented experienced Australian partner. Our Xiamen JV is 100% Australian owned and operated. *** To quote you ' The suncube is not some cheap product made in China using inferior parts. So how come China means quality all over a sudden? Changing Direction a million times ## A little overstated. We never withdrew from the SCIG licenses just withdrew from direct GGE retail. Now Australian and other worldwide distributors, which no longer need to manufacture, can come on board. This will actually deliver volume SunCubes into more peoples hands that GGE doing in ourself. *** overstated yes; but there have been more twists and turns than in a game of snakes and ladders. Setting up of demo site ## On our rooftop and soon all around the world. Watch this space for the exclusive TV launch on Today Tonight (Australian channel 7). *** unfortunately I don't have availability to that channel. So hopefully you can post a copy of the video and pics on your site. So where is the business plan? ## What you want to invest? Why would I disclose our business plan to anyone but an serious investor? But yes we do have a very solid business plan with independent verification of our figures. BTW we are NOT looking for investors. *** asking if you have a solid business plan has nothing to do with investment. Even good ideas can fail without a solid direction. All these twists and turns show that there is no clear direction. Drawing up a solid business plan and executing is basic good business practice and not just a tool to obtain finance. What about the effect of these changes on your business partners and the agreements you said you have signed with them to manufacture suncubes locally. Does your anouncement of producing in China scrupper all these agreements? ## Nope, no way. It actually assists the SCIG guys to fast track SunCube in their countries and get quick traction in their markets. *** Can't comment as i'm not in their shoes. Is everyone just a doormat? ## No but they are a customer who is always right. *** so how about showing some goodwill towards them and mending some fences? Cello ## Greg *** Cello Greg Watson Dave, As I said at the time, there were issues with cell availability. Now that is behind us and we are going into high volume production with Australian distribution being set-up. Greg ----- Original Message ----- From: Dave Kimble To: sunball@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, August 24, 2007 10:19 AM Subject: Re: [Sunball] Now Eat Your Words I can't believe this is your attitude. Don't you agree the web site is amateurish ? It is your shop window - it is where the journo went. Don't you think they might have expected at least to see a video of the thing working and reams about how many you have sold, and what price and power, and where you can get them ? If you could have had the production line up and running when you said you would, and fulfilled all the orders for people that were clamouring for them, and had demonstration trailers at trade fairs, etc, like you said you would, you would have a success to point at and something to complain about with the paper. Instead on launch day you announced you were changing factories, then that they wouldn't be for sale to the public at all, then you harangued the very people who were your customers for being upset, then you announced that they WOULD be for sale to the public after all, when the certification was ready, then that you weren't going to wait for certification, then that you were having them made in China. Promises much, but hasn't made it to market yet. Dave ----- Original Message ----- From: Greg Watson To: sunball@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, August 24, 2007 9:50 AM Subject: Re: [Sunball] Now Eat Your Words They claimed they did nothing wrong and saw no reason to actually call us. I suggest they will get a few questions from their readers as well. Oh well that is one magazine which will not be getting any of our advertising money. Greg ----- Original Message ----- From: Bernie Meyer To: sunball@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, August 24, 2007 8:54 AM Subject: Re: [Sunball] Now Eat Your Words What about a retraction or correction? Surely that wouldn't take up too much space? Greg Watson We asked them how they came to that conclusion. They said they checked the web site, concluded nothing was happening and wrote the words. They never even bothered to give us the courtesy of a phone call and ask what was happening. They claimed they saw no reason to take the time to call. Sloppy journalism at best. We have offered them to come, have a look and write a proper review but so far they say they don't have enough room in the next edition. Greg ----- Original Message ----- From: Bernie Meyer To: sunball@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2007 10:08 PM Subject: [Sunball] Now Eat Your Words From Bumper Issue 100 of ReNew, p.77 The misses of sustainability Sunballs, suncubes ... A collection of esoteric solar collectors that promised much but the market didn't buy it. Be a better Heartthrob. Get better relationship answers from someone who knows. Yahoo! Answers - Check it out. No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.484 / Virus Database: 269.12.2/967 - Release Date: 22/08/2007 6:51 PM Looking for a deal? Find great prices on flights and hotels with Yahoo! FareChase. No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.484 / Virus Database: 269.12.4/969 - Release Date: 23/08/2007 4:04 PM _____________________________________________________ This mail has been virus scanned by Lizzy Internet see http://www.lizzy.com.au/mailscanning No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.484 / Virus Database: 269.12.2/967 - Release Date: 22/08/2007 6:51 PM No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.484 / Virus Database: 269.12.4/969 - Release Date: 23/08/2007 4:04 PM L'email della prossima generazione? Puoi averla con la nuova Yahoo! Mail No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.484 / Virus Database: 269.12.4/969 - Release Date: 23/08/2007 4:04 PM --------------------------------- --------------------------------- L'email della prossima generazione? Puoi averla con la nuova Yahoo! Mail Back to top Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post Messages in this topic (25) 1d. Re: Now Eat Your Words Posted by: "Greg Watson" greg.watson@greenandgoldenergy.com.au greenandgoldenergy Fri Aug 24, 2007 7:49 am (PST) Replies below ----- Original Message ----- From: Marcello Vella To: sunball@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, August 24, 2007 8:05 PM Subject: Re: [Sunball] Now Eat Your Words ***See replies below Cello Greg Watson See my answers below. Greg ----- Original Message ----- From: Marcello Vella To: sunball@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, August 24, 2007 4:47 PM Subject: Re: [Sunball] Now Eat Your Words Greg, Excuse me for asking, but what has cell availability got to do with; Changing factories ## There is no way possible we could have manufactured the quantity of SunCube we need in Australia. As for the SCIG licensees they can now choose to fast track with fully assembled SunCubes, full component kits or just selected components as they desire. I can assure you they see this move as very supportative of their business. *** so what happened to the robotic lines? ## In progress both in Australia and China. The Adelaide cell assy facility wil product over 300 MWs per year of cell assemblies using robotics. The required dirt / dust free room is almost finished. Photos in a few days. IEC certification ## IEC 62108 has still not been ratified so there is no IEC certification. We have decided not to wait and to go into markets that don't need the certification. Producing in China ## Very significant capacity to fast track building 2 - 3 million SunCubes a year with a quality oriented experienced Australian partner. Our Xiamen JV is 100% Australian owned and operated. *** To quote you ' The suncube is not some cheap product made in China using inferior parts. So how come China means quality all over a sudden? ## You missed 100% Australian owned and operated facility. How do you come up with inferior parts? Trying to downgrade the product are we? Another agenda do we have do we? We and our cell supplier do offer a silicon flat panel equivalent warranty. Please tell me of another CPV supplier who can / will match that. ## Inferior parts? Cheap shot I suggest. Changing Direction a million times ## A little overstated. We never withdrew from the SCIG licenses just withdrew from direct GGE retail. Now Australian and other worldwide distributors, which no longer need to manufacture, can come on board. This will actually deliver volume SunCubes into more peoples hands that GGE doing in ourself. *** overstated yes; but there have been more twists and turns than in a game of snakes and ladders. ## Incorrect. We initiated licenses worldwide and are now giving them what they need to get rapid traction. As for twists and turns do you really expect us to reveal on a public forum where we are really going? I'm sure you know of what I speak. Setting up of demo site ## On our rooftop and soon all around the world. Watch this space for the exclusive TV launch on Today Tonight (Australian channel 7). *** unfortunately I don't have availability to that channel. So hopefully you can post a copy of the video and pics on your site. ## There will be a copy on the web site. So where is the business plan? ## What you want to invest? Why would I disclose our business plan to anyone but an serious investor? But yes we do have a very solid business plan with independent verification of our figures. BTW we are NOT looking for investors. *** asking if you have a solid business plan has nothing to do with investment. Even good ideas can fail without a solid direction. All these twists and turns show that there is no clear direction. Drawing up a solid business plan and executing is basic good business practice and not just a tool to obtain finance. ## With respect there have been very few deviations. Our thrust is very simple. Solar farms that deliver fossil fuel competitive kWhs with matching retain distribution. Rooftop solar that doesn't need rebates to deliver cost effective solar kWhs. You somehow think these goals are somehow easy? Just snap your finger and they happen? There is no one even remotely close. No one. ## The only deviation was to back away from direct retail sales. If you are a long time "Cubie" then you know our first market thrust was distribution and not direct retain. We were blocked in that effort by flat panel distributors and pulled back to direct sales. In actuality we have now gone back to where we were when we started. We make it and they distribute it. We have a product that will very significantly dent existing flat anel sales. Don't think marketing a very distuptive product is simple or follows conventional marketing rules. What about the effect of these changes on your business partners and the agreements you said you have signed with them to manufacture suncubes locally. Does your anouncement of producing in China scrupper all these agreements? ## Nope, no way. It actually assists the SCIG guys to fast track SunCube in their countries and get quick traction in their markets. *** Can't comment as i'm not in their shoes. ## Well those that are, are very pleased. Our Indian, Israel, Spanish, Korean, Japanese, US, Australian and Middle East / North Africian parteners have all visited in the last 4 weeks. The 105 MWs of cells we ordered are taken and we are proceeding to order another 200 MWs. We may even build a cell fab plant in Adelaide. Is everyone just a doormat? ## No but they are a customer who is always right. *** so how about showing some goodwill towards them and mending some fences? ## Meding what fences? We are moving rapidly to open retail distribution channels worldwide. If you expect installation rebates then go to the silicon guys. If you want the lowest $ / kWh them buy SunCubes. Your choice. Cello ## Greg *** Cello Greg Watson Dave, As I said at the time, there were issues with cell availability. Now that is behind us and we are going into high volume production with Australian distribution being set-up. Greg ----- Original Message ----- From: Dave Kimble To: sunball@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, August 24, 2007 10:19 AM Subject: Re: [Sunball] Now Eat Your Words I can't believe this is your attitude. Don't you agree the web site is amateurish ? It is your shop window - it is where the journo went. Don't you think they might have expected at least to see a video of the thing working and reams about how many you have sold, and what price and power, and where you can get them ? If you could have had the production line up and running when you said you would, and fulfilled all the orders for people that were clamouring for them, and had demonstration trailers at trade fairs, etc, like you said you would, you would have a success to point at and something to complain about with the paper. Instead on launch day you announced you were changing factories, then that they wouldn't be for sale to the public at all, then you harangued the very people who were your customers for being upset, then you announced that they WOULD be for sale to the public after all, when the certification was ready, then that you weren't going to wait for certification, then that you were having them made in China. Promises much, but hasn't made it to market yet. Dave ----- Original Message ----- From: Greg Watson To: sunball@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, August 24, 2007 9:50 AM Subject: Re: [Sunball] Now Eat Your Words They claimed they did nothing wrong and saw no reason to actually call us. I suggest they will get a few questions from their readers as well. Oh well that is one magazine which will not be getting any of our advertising money. Greg ----- Original Message ----- From: Bernie Meyer To: sunball@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, August 24, 2007 8:54 AM Subject: Re: [Sunball] Now Eat Your Words What about a retraction or correction? Surely that wouldn't take up too much space? Greg Watson We asked them how they came to that conclusion. They said they checked the web site, concluded nothing was happening and wrote the words. They never even bothered to give us the courtesy of a phone call and ask what was happening. They claimed they saw no reason to take the time to call. Sloppy journalism at best. We have offered them to come, have a look and write a proper review but so far they say they don't have enough room in the next edition. Greg ----- Original Message ----- From: Bernie Meyer To: sunball@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2007 10:08 PM Subject: [Sunball] Now Eat Your Words From Bumper Issue 100 of ReNew, p.77 The misses of sustainability Sunballs, suncubes ... A collection of esoteric solar collectors that promised much but the market didn't buy it. Be a better Heartthrob. Get better relationship answers from someone who knows. Yahoo! Answers - Check it out. No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.484 / Virus Database: 269.12.2/967 - Release Date: 22/08/2007 6:51 PM Looking for a deal? Find great prices on flights and hotels with Yahoo! FareChase. No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.484 / Virus Database: 269.12.4/969 - Release Date: 23/08/2007 4:04 PM _____________________________________________________ This mail has been virus scanned by Lizzy Internet see http://www.lizzy.com.au/mailscanning No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.484 / Virus Database: 269.12.2/967 - Release Date: 22/08/2007 6:51 PM No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.484 / Virus Database: 269.12.4/969 - Release Date: 23/08/2007 4:04 PM L'email della prossima generazione? Puoi averla con la nuova Yahoo! Mail No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.484 / Virus Database: 269.12.4/969 - Release Date: 23/08/2007 4:04 PM L'email della prossima generazione? Puoi averla con la nuova Yahoo! Mail No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.484 / Virus Database: 269.12.4/969 - Release Date: 23/08/2007 4:04 PM Back to top Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post Messages in this topic (25) 1e. China Posted by: "Bernie Meyer" a1j7g3@yahoo.com a1j7g3 Fri Aug 24, 2007 6:30 pm (PST) You mentioned "So how come China means quality all over a sudden?" If you look at the recent recalls, then probably it doesn't. Certainly, I stay well clear of their food products due to lack of standards there and here (why do we allow food items banned in the US?). Maybe electronics and other related manufacturing items are acceptable. The problem is they have been thrust into the modern age, but many important issues are still rather primitive. Marcello Vella ***See replies below Cello Greg Watson See my answers below. Greg ----- Original Message ----- From: Marcello Vella To: sunball@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, August 24, 2007 4:47 PM Subject: Re: [Sunball] Now Eat Your Words Greg, Excuse me for asking, but what has cell availability got to do with; Changing factories ## There is no way possible we could have manufactured the quantity of SunCube we need in Australia. As for the SCIG licensees they can now choose to fast track with fully assembled SunCubes, full component kits or just selected components as they desire. I can assure you they see this move as very supportative of their business. *** so what happened to the robotic lines? IEC certification ## IEC 62108 has still not been ratified so there is no IEC certification. We have decided not to wait and to go into markets that don't need the certification. Producing in China ## Very significant capacity to fast track building 2 - 3 million SunCubes a year with a quality oriented experienced Australian partner. Our Xiamen JV is 100% Australian owned and operated. *** To quote you ' The suncube is not some cheap product made in China using inferior parts. So how come China means quality all over a sudden? Changing Direction a million times ## A little overstated. We never withdrew from the SCIG licenses just withdrew from direct GGE retail. Now Australian and other worldwide distributors, which no longer need to manufacture, can come on board. This will actually deliver volume SunCubes into more peoples hands that GGE doing in ourself. *** overstated yes; but there have been more twists and turns than in a game of snakes and ladders. Setting up of demo site ## On our rooftop and soon all around the world. Watch this space for the exclusive TV launch on Today Tonight (Australian channel 7). *** unfortunately I don't have availability to that channel. So hopefully you can post a copy of the video and pics on your site. So where is the business plan? ## What you want to invest? Why would I disclose our business plan to anyone but an serious investor? But yes we do have a very solid business plan with independent verification of our figures. BTW we are NOT looking for investors. *** asking if you have a solid business plan has nothing to do with investment. Even good ideas can fail without a solid direction. All these twists and turns show that there is no clear direction. Drawing up a solid business plan and executing is basic good business practice and not just a tool to obtain finance. What about the effect of these changes on your business partners and the agreements you said you have signed with them to manufacture suncubes locally. Does your anouncement of producing in China scrupper all these agreements? ## Nope, no way. It actually assists the SCIG guys to fast track SunCube in their countries and get quick traction in their markets. *** Can't comment as i'm not in their shoes. Is everyone just a doormat? ## No but they are a customer who is always right. *** so how about showing some goodwill towards them and mending some fences? Cello ## Greg *** Cello Greg Watson Dave, As I said at the time, there were issues with cell availability. Now that is behind us and we are going into high volume production with Australian distribution being set-up. Greg ----- Original Message ----- From: Dave Kimble To: sunball@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, August 24, 2007 10:19 AM Subject: Re: [Sunball] Now Eat Your Words I can't believe this is your attitude. Don't you agree the web site is amateurish ? It is your shop window - it is where the journo went. Don't you think they might have expected at least to see a video of the thing working and reams about how many you have sold, and what price and power, and where you can get them ? If you could have had the production line up and running when you said you would, and fulfilled all the orders for people that were clamouring for them, and had demonstration trailers at trade fairs, etc, like you said you would, you would have a success to point at and something to complain about with the paper. Instead on launch day you announced you were changing factories, then that they wouldn't be for sale to the public at all, then you harangued the very people who were your customers for being upset, then you announced that they WOULD be for sale to the public after all, when the certification was ready, then that you weren't going to wait for certification, then that you were having them made in China. Promises much, but hasn't made it to market yet. Dave ----- Original Message ----- From: Greg Watson To: sunball@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, August 24, 2007 9:50 AM Subject: Re: [Sunball] Now Eat Your Words They claimed they did nothing wrong and saw no reason to actually call us. I suggest they will get a few questions from their readers as well. Oh well that is one magazine which will not be getting any of our advertising money. Greg ----- Original Message ----- From: Bernie Meyer To: sunball@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, August 24, 2007 8:54 AM Subject: Re: [Sunball] Now Eat Your Words What about a retraction or correction? Surely that wouldn't take up too much space? Greg Watson We asked them how they came to that conclusion. They said they checked the web site, concluded nothing was happening and wrote the words. They never even bothered to give us the courtesy of a phone call and ask what was happening. They claimed they saw no reason to take the time to call. Sloppy journalism at best. We have offered them to come, have a look and write a proper review but so far they say they don't have enough room in the next edition. Greg ----- Original Message ----- From: Bernie Meyer To: sunball@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2007 10:08 PM Subject: [Sunball] Now Eat Your Words From Bumper Issue 100 of ReNew, p.77 The misses of sustainability Sunballs, suncubes ... A collection of esoteric solar collectors that promised much but the market didn't buy it. Be a better Heartthrob. Get better relationship answers from someone who knows. Yahoo! Answers - Check it out. No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.484 / Virus Database: 269.12.2/967 - Release Date: 22/08/2007 6:51 PM Looking for a deal? Find great prices on flights and hotels with Yahoo! FareChase. No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.484 / Virus Database: 269.12.4/969 - Release Date: 23/08/2007 4:04 PM _____________________________________________________ This mail has been virus scanned by Lizzy Internet see http://www.lizzy.com.au/mailscanning No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.484 / Virus Database: 269.12.2/967 - Release Date: 22/08/2007 6:51 PM No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.484 / Virus Database: 269.12.4/969 - Release Date: 23/08/2007 4:04 PM L'email della prossima generazione? Puoi averla con la nuova Yahoo! Mail No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.484 / Virus Database: 269.12.4/969 - Release Date: 23/08/2007 4:04 PM --------------------------------- --------------------------------- L'email della prossima generazione? Puoi averla con la nuova Yahoo! Mail --------------------------------- Looking for a deal? Find great prices on flights and hotels with Yahoo! FareChase. Back to top Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post Messages in this topic (25) 1f. Re: China Posted by: "Greg Watson" greg.watson@greenandgoldenergy.com.au greenandgoldenergy Fri Aug 24, 2007 6:40 pm (PST) The Xiamen facility is 100% Australian owned and operated. We design the manufacturing process, define and control the quality standards. We just use Chinese CNC shops to do the machining of the various components. I say again the Xiamen JV is not Chinese. It is 100% Australian owned and operated. Members of the Australian management team are moving their families to Xiamen to run the facility. Greg ----- Original Message ----- From: Bernie Meyer To: sunball@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, August 25, 2007 10:49 AM Subject: [Sunball] China You mentioned "So how come China means quality all over a sudden?" If you look at the recent recalls, then probably it doesn't. Certainly, I stay well clear of their food products due to lack of standards there and here (why do we allow food items banned in the US?). Maybe electronics and other related manufacturing items are acceptable. The problem is they have been thrust into the modern age, but many important issues are still rather primitive. Marcello Vella ***See replies below Cello Greg Watson See my answers below. Greg ----- Original Message ----- From: Marcello Vella To: sunball@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, August 24, 2007 4:47 PM Subject: Re: [Sunball] Now Eat Your Words Greg, Excuse me for asking, but what has cell availability got to do with; Changing factories ## There is no way possible we could have manufactured the quantity of SunCube we need in Australia. As for the SCIG licensees they can now choose to fast track with fully assembled SunCubes, full component kits or just selected components as they desire. I can assure you they see this move as very supportative of their business. *** so what happened to the robotic lines? IEC certification ## IEC 62108 has still not been ratified so there is no IEC certification. We have decided not to wait and to go into markets that don't need the certification. Producing in China ## Very significant capacity to fast track building 2 - 3 million SunCubes a year with a quality oriented experienced Australian partner. Our Xiamen JV is 100% Australian owned and operated. *** To quote you ' The suncube is not some cheap product made in China using inferior parts. So how come China means quality all over a sudden? Changing Direction a million times ## A little overstated. We never withdrew from the SCIG licenses just withdrew from direct GGE retail. Now Australian and other worldwide distributors, which no longer need to manufacture, can come on board. This will actually deliver volume SunCubes into more peoples hands that GGE doing in ourself. *** overstated yes; but there have been more twists and turns than in a game of snakes and ladders. Setting up of demo site ## On our rooftop and soon all around the world. Watch this space for the exclusive TV launch on Today Tonight (Australian channel 7). *** unfortunately I don't have availability to that channel. So hopefully you can post a copy of the video and pics on your site. So where is the business plan? ## What you want to invest? Why would I disclose our business plan to anyone but an serious investor? But yes we do have a very solid business plan with independent verification of our figures. BTW we are NOT looking for investors. *** asking if you have a solid business plan has nothing to do with investment. Even good ideas can fail without a solid direction. All these twists and turns show that there is no clear direction. Drawing up a solid business plan and executing is basic good business practice and not just a tool to obtain finance. What about the effect of these changes on your business partners and the agreements you said you have signed with them to manufacture suncubes locally. Does your anouncement of producing in China scrupper all these agreements? ## Nope, no way. It actually assists the SCIG guys to fast track SunCube in their countries and get quick traction in their markets. *** Can't comment as i'm not in their shoes. Is everyone just a doormat? ## No but they are a customer who is always right. *** so how about showing some goodwill towards them and mending some fences? Cello ## Greg *** Cello Greg Watson Dave, As I said at the time, there were issues with cell availability. Now that is behind us and we are going into high volume production with Australian distribution being set-up. Greg ----- Original Message ----- From: Dave Kimble To: sunball@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, August 24, 2007 10:19 AM Subject: Re: [Sunball] Now Eat Your Words I can't believe this is your attitude. Don't you agree the web site is amateurish ? It is your shop window - it is where the journo went. Don't you think they might have expected at least to see a video of the thing working and reams about how many you have sold, and what price and power, and where you can get them ? If you could have had the production line up and running when you said you would, and fulfilled all the orders for people that were clamouring for them, and had demonstration trailers at trade fairs, etc, like you said you would, you would have a success to point at and something to complain about with the paper. Instead on launch day you announced you were changing factories, then that they wouldn't be for sale to the public at all, then you harangued the very people who were your customers for being upset, then you announced that they WOULD be for sale to the public after all, when the certification was ready, then that you weren't going to wait for certification, then that you were having them made in China. Promises much, but hasn't made it to market yet. Dave ----- Original Message ----- From: Greg Watson To: sunball@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, August 24, 2007 9:50 AM Subject: Re: [Sunball] Now Eat Your Words They claimed they did nothing wrong and saw no reason to actually call us. I suggest they will get a few questions from their readers as well. Oh well that is one magazine which will not be getting any of our advertising money. Greg ----- Original Message ----- From: Bernie Meyer To: sunball@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, August 24, 2007 8:54 AM Subject: Re: [Sunball] Now Eat Your Words What about a retraction or correction? Surely that wouldn't take up too much space? Greg Watson We asked them how they came to that conclusion. They said they checked the web site, concluded nothing was happening and wrote the words. They never even bothered to give us the courtesy of a phone call and ask what was happening. They claimed they saw no reason to take the time to call. Sloppy journalism at best. We have offered them to come, have a look and write a proper review but so far they say they don't have enough room in the next edition. Greg ----- Original Message ----- From: Bernie Meyer To: sunball@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2007 10:08 PM Subject: [Sunball] Now Eat Your Words From Bumper Issue 100 of ReNew, p.77 The misses of sustainability Sunballs, suncubes ... A collection of esoteric solar collectors that promised much but the market didn't buy it. Be a better Heartthrob. Get better relationship answers from someone who knows. Yahoo! Answers - Check it out. No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.484 / Virus Database: 269.12.2/967 - Release Date: 22/08/2007 6:51 PM Looking for a deal? Find great prices on flights and hotels with Yahoo! FareChase. No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.484 / Virus Database: 269.12.4/969 - Release Date: 23/08/2007 4:04 PM _____________________________________________________ This mail has been virus scanned by Lizzy Internet see http://www.lizzy.com.au/mailscanning No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.484 / Virus Database: 269.12.2/967 - Release Date: 22/08/2007 6:51 PM No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.484 / Virus Database: 269.12.4/969 - Release Date: 23/08/2007 4:04 PM L'email della prossima generazione? Puoi averla con la nuova Yahoo! Mail No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.484 / Virus Database: 269.12.4/969 - Release Date: 23/08/2007 4:04 PM ---------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------------------------- L'email della prossima generazione? Puoi averla con la nuova Yahoo! Mail ---------------------------------------------------------- Looking for a deal? Find great prices on flights and hotels with Yahoo! FareChase. ---------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.484 / Virus Database: 269.12.6/971 - Release Date: 24/08/2007 2:59 PM Back to top Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post Messages in this topic (25) 1g. Re: China Posted by: "Bernie Meyer" a1j7g3@yahoo.com a1j7g3 Sat Aug 25, 2007 12:35 am (PST) Hi Greg, It's great the facility is 100% Australian, but sad it had to come to that. It would have been nice if Australian labour could have been used in Australia, but there are probably lots of good viable reasons to manufacture off shore - and quantity is most likely a major factor. Bernie Greg Watson The Xiamen facility is 100% Australian owned and operated. We design the manufacturing process, define and control the quality standards. We just use Chinese CNC shops to do the machining of the various components. I say again the Xiamen JV is not Chinese. It is 100% Australian owned and operated. Members of the Australian management team are moving their families to Xiamen to run the facility. Greg ----- Original Message ----- From: Bernie Meyer To: sunball@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, August 25, 2007 10:49 AM Subject: [Sunball] China You mentioned "So how come China means quality all over a sudden?" If you look at the recent recalls, then probably it doesn't. Certainly, I stay well clear of their food products due to lack of standards there and here (why do we allow food items banned in the US?). Maybe electronics and other related manufacturing items are acceptable. The problem is they have been thrust into the modern age, but many important issues are still rather primitive. Marcello Vella ***See replies below Cello Greg Watson See my answers below. Greg ----- Original Message ----- From: Marcello Vella To: sunball@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, August 24, 2007 4:47 PM Subject: Re: [Sunball] Now Eat Your Words Greg, Excuse me for asking, but what has cell availability got to do with; Changing factories ## There is no way possible we could have manufactured the quantity of SunCube we need in Australia. As for the SCIG licensees they can now choose to fast track with fully assembled SunCubes, full component kits or just selected components as they desire. I can assure you they see this move as very supportative of their business. *** so what happened to the robotic lines? IEC certification ## IEC 62108 has still not been ratified so there is no IEC certification. We have decided not to wait and to go into markets that don't need the certification. Producing in China ## Very significant capacity to fast track building 2 - 3 million SunCubes a year with a quality oriented experienced Australian partner. Our Xiamen JV is 100% Australian owned and operated. *** To quote you ' The suncube is not some cheap product made in China using inferior parts. So how come China means quality all over a sudden? Changing Direction a million times ## A little overstated. We never withdrew from the SCIG licenses just withdrew from direct GGE retail. Now Australian and other worldwide distributors, which no longer need to manufacture, can come on board. This will actually deliver volume SunCubes into more peoples hands that GGE doing in ourself. *** overstated yes; but there have been more twists and turns than in a game of snakes and ladders. Setting up of demo site ## On our rooftop and soon all around the world. Watch this space for the exclusive TV launch on Today Tonight (Australian channel 7). *** unfortunately I don't have availability to that channel. So hopefully you can post a copy of the video and pics on your site. So where is the business plan? ## What you want to invest? Why would I disclose our business plan to anyone but an serious investor? But yes we do have a very solid business plan with independent verification of our figures. BTW we are NOT looking for investors. *** asking if you have a solid business plan has nothing to do with investment. Even good ideas can fail without a solid direction. All these twists and turns show that there is no clear direction. Drawing up a solid business plan and executing is basic good business practice and not just a tool to obtain finance. What about the effect of these changes on your business partners and the agreements you said you have signed with them to manufacture suncubes locally. Does your anouncement of producing in China scrupper all these agreements? ## Nope, no way. It actually assists the SCIG guys to fast track SunCube in their countries and get quick traction in their markets. *** Can't comment as i'm not in their shoes. Is everyone just a doormat? ## No but they are a customer who is always right. *** so how about showing some goodwill towards them and mending some fences? Cello ## Greg *** Cello Greg Watson Dave, As I said at the time, there were issues with cell availability. Now that is behind us and we are going into high volume production with Australian distribution being set-up. Greg ----- Original Message ----- From: Dave Kimble To: sunball@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, August 24, 2007 10:19 AM Subject: Re: [Sunball] Now Eat Your Words I can't believe this is your attitude. Don't you agree the web site is amateurish ? It is your shop window - it is where the journo went. Don't you think they might have expected at least to see a video of the thing working and reams about how many you have sold, and what price and power, and where you can get them ? If you could have had the production line up and running when you said you would, and fulfilled all the orders for people that were clamouring for them, and had demonstration trailers at trade fairs, etc, like you said you would, you would have a success to point at and something to complain about with the paper. Instead on launch day you announced you were changing factories, then that they wouldn't be for sale to the public at all, then you harangued the very people who were your customers for being upset, then you announced that they WOULD be for sale to the public after all, when the certification was ready, then that you weren't going to wait for certification, then that you were having them made in China. Promises much, but hasn't made it to market yet. Dave ----- Original Message ----- From: Greg Watson To: sunball@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, August 24, 2007 9:50 AM Subject: Re: [Sunball] Now Eat Your Words They claimed they did nothing wrong and saw no reason to actually call us. I suggest they will get a few questions from their readers as well. Oh well that is one magazine which will not be getting any of our advertising money. Greg ----- Original Message ----- From: Bernie Meyer To: sunball@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, August 24, 2007 8:54 AM Subject: Re: [Sunball] Now Eat Your Words What about a retraction or correction? Sur |
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Subject: RE: SunCube Fiasco From: GUEST,Enertwent Date: 20 Jul 07 - 04:52 AM Good morning Mr. Keef Your plan sounds good. I like the Idea travelling around. If possible we can arrange a meeting during your stay in Europe. I just confirmed the emailaddres. I'll keep in touch with you trough that address. Enertwent. |
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Subject: RE: SunCube Fiasco From: Keef Date: 19 Jul 07 - 09:10 PM Hello Mr Enertwent I have sent an email to your AOL address Please be in touch. Keef |
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Subject: RE: SunCube Fiasco From: Keef Date: 19 Jul 07 - 08:55 PM Hello Enertwent Sorry if I spelled your name incorrectly...it is much harder to spell than Keef is! Please don't read any offence into that, I am genuine and I would be genuinely interested in obtaining a system. I am away from home at the moment and having a few hassles using public computers. My usual residence is NSW North coast. I am intending to leave on a 6 month holiday shortly, going to UK and Ireland to pursue my musical ambitions and to drink heaps of Guiness and Murphys stout. Since you are in EU I could easily make contact with you. (I hold Australian and EU passports). I am very interested in any business or employment opportunities in the solar area. I am qualified in electronics and salesmanship and have run my own business. I won't give out my email on a public forum but you can send me a message via Mudcat private message...just join up then we can get in touch. Regards Keef |
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Subject: RE: SunCube Fiasco From: The Fooles Troupe Date: 17 Jul 07 - 11:38 PM I can understand Keef's cynicism - why no web address, why no domain, just an AOL email addy? |
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Subject: RE: SunCube Fiasco From: GUEST,Enertwent Date: 17 Jul 07 - 11:23 AM Mr. Keef, now it is twice you did not take the notice to spell even our company-name correct. Why not? Not realy interested? Then please tell us. Do you think we are as folish as other people you were connected too in the past? Maybey you are already influenced too much! We thought 1e. helping you this way,getting a good contact in AU, with the possibility getting an alternative for a good on grid unit too, and telling people down under what there is really available. 2e. Get a good contact, but for now, we are not sure anymore, looking at your reaction until now. So if you are really interested, re-read the messages and let us know what and if you really want the contact.. We are an EU-Company, interested in the AU-market, but only in the serious way and we thought you might be a possible key to it. Sorry if we are wrong with it. |
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Subject: RE: SunCube Fiasco From: Keef Date: 16 Jul 07 - 11:08 PM Thanks Mr Enert? |
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Subject: RE: SunCube Fiasco From: GUEST,Enertwent Date: 16 Jul 07 - 03:20 AM Hi Keef, thanks for your reaction. We are realy trying to develop a small solarfam with an cpv -system, almost ready for commercial use, as a pilotproject. I'll keep in touch, wenn we are ready for it. Please give me direct email-connection. I do not want to hang all information out of the window. Mine you can use is: brotanlagen@aol.com enertwent |
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Subject: RE: SunCube Fiasco From: Keef Date: 15 Jul 07 - 10:24 PM Hi Mr Enterwent What I realy wanted was exactly what Mr Watson was promising. A solar system that for a price of about $1500 would give me 600 Kwhours per year. On the promise of that I foolishly bought a small electric fridge (rated at 300 Kwhours per year). I also bought a 100 Watt "flattie" (as Watson scornfully calls them), a chinese wind generator (don't bother..not much good) and a cheap generator to be going along with until my wonderful Suncube arrived. Along with the other 4000 prospective customers I have recieved no explanation or apology for the about face. This annoyed me somewhat and therefore I started doing some research. It is quite obvious that the Suncube could never have done what it was claimed to do. For myself I could easily make do with a ground mounted unit. For the average customer, a roof mounted system is preferred, however the Suncube would have been a near impossibility to roof mount. The other thing that I want is to expose Mr Watson for what he really is and to help prevent more people being hurt by his actions. Those who have paid money for production or distribution rights have no chance of getting their money back. The Suncube will never be available for retail sale. The solar farms are an impossibility, even allowing for Watson's distorted costings ($600 per suncube total budget for the complete solar farm!). If you do have a cpv system coming up that will do even half of what the sunpube was claimed to do then I'll buy one for sure. I'll also be happy to tell the world how well it works. BTW I used to tell everone how great the Sunball was going to be...sigh Keef |
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Subject: RE: SunCube Fiasco From: GUEST,Enertwent Date: 14 Jul 07 - 06:52 AM Keef What do you really want, apart from your battle against GGE? If it is a working CPV-system,whether for privat or industrial use, we might be able to help you in the near future. |
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Subject: RE: SunCube Fiasco From: Keef Date: 13 Jul 07 - 11:38 PM Hi Hlper Yes I know that part is all bullshit, and I don't claim to be a rocket surgeon like Greg. He has now totally corrupted the Sungrid group and you and I are no longer welcome! Personally I haven't lost anything except a lot of time over this. He has annoyed me sufficiently that I will not be happy until I see him get the kind of publicity that he so richly deserves. I'll keep plugging away and I will fix him properly soon enough. Have you noticed that the famous Emcore letter has totally gone from his website? Even the more discrete link that he gave above http://www.greenandgoldenergy.com.au/Documents/EmcoreGGE.pdf does not work any more. Here is an appeal to everyone reading this thread....please spread the word....copy and paste all you like and lets give this scammer all the publicity he craves. The filthy hypocrit keeps banging on about CO2 and how he alone can save the world...aaaargh. |
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Subject: RE: SunCube Fiasco From: GUEST,Hlper Date: 11 Jul 07 - 07:06 AM Hi Keef, Be careful of Watson's "replicated energy release" and ambient heat creating kinetic energy and pushing along a steel ball. It is a shame so many people lack basic education in physics. Fancy all that BS by Watson to explain the simple fact that the extra energy came from the potential energy associated with the magnetic fields of the two magnets that were already placed;as soon as the steel ball was then placed the potential energy was absorbed in pushing the ball. Electrons most always orbit in atoms whether in metals like Iron or non-metals,unless in extreme situations.Room temp and thermal energy are associated with atomic vibrations right down to absolute zero where Bose-Einstein determined that another state of matter exists and all atoms clump together and vibrate in harmony(0 deg.Kelvin). In space temp.is around 4 deg. Kelvin due to background radiation. H.=Hawking |
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Subject: RE: SunCube Fiasco From: Keef Date: 08 Jul 07 - 07:16 PM From the sungrid forum.... Banned I have banned Keef for a week. I am not messding around, NO personal attacks. Chris Meanwhile Greg the Scammer is free to spout his bullshit and attempt to suck in more idiots. Good luck with that Greg |
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Subject: RE: SunCube Fiasco From: Keef Date: 07 Jul 07 - 07:16 PM Do it yourself scam guide Just follow these simple instructions! Scamming for Dummies |
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Subject: RE: SunCube Fiasco From: Keef Date: 07 Jul 07 - 07:07 PM Come and listen to a story Bout a man named Greg A poor old aging scammer Barely kept his fambly fed And then one day he was looking at his roof Said I'll dream me up a sunball And I'll say that it's the troof Well the sunball turned to suncube And to mark two three four five And the money kept on flowing It felt good to be alive But those customers kept asking When those suncubes they'd be getting And they started asking questions Bout the things Greg kept forgettin Like....Proof Greg Simple proof Taint hard Well now Greg he chucked a wobbly And he said you won't be gettin Not a single bloody suncube Cos it's secret...I'm not tellin But youse can all still buy a share In my solar funny farm And I'm keepin all the money So there's no cause for alarm Gold Green and Gold YEE HARRRR! |
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