BS: Crash of U.S. Economy

Subject: RE: BS: Crash of U.S. Economy
From: Donuel
Date: 22 Sep 08 - 08:38 PM

Carol C, by "bankrupting" the country the people with trillions of dollars in cash have not only consolidated many banks into just two, BUT THEY CAN THEN BUY UP EVERYTHING FOR PENNIES ON THE DOLLAR !!!

the liquid cash families that own the banks (not CEOs) consider themselves to be the golden goose.

These people may not be patriotic in your book but they hire think tanks to propogandize issues to protect their position.

Indeed they may be our greatest traitors.

Subject: RE: BS: Crash of U.S. Economy
From: Riginslinger
Date: 22 Sep 08 - 09:12 PM

Donuel - I think they are our greatest traitors, next to the politicians who sold out to them.

Subject: RE: BS: Crash of U.S. Economy
From: Amos
Date: 22 Sep 08 - 09:55 PM

Dang, now, Rig, that's a really interesting point of view, one I am highly sympathetic to!


Alexander Hamilton, come back!!



A

Subject: RE: BS: Crash of U.S. Economy
From: Riginslinger
Date: 22 Sep 08 - 10:00 PM

Yes, I agree. Alex is the man we need right now.

                   I was wondering earlier if there really is anyone on the American scene who the people would trust to take over this mess. I wasn't able to come up with anybody.

Subject: RE: BS: Crash of U.S. Economy
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 22 Sep 08 - 11:24 PM

One of the interesting things about Paulsen's proposal is the explicit freedom from any accountability, judicial or otherwise.

Subject: RE: BS: Crash of U.S. Economy
From: Riginslinger
Date: 22 Sep 08 - 11:28 PM

The Democrats want to tie it back to individual home owners. You'd never see the end of it if you did that.

                  We need strong leadership here. Where will it come from?

Subject: RE: BS: Crash of U.S. Economy
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Sep 08 - 12:17 AM

From: Riginslinger
Date: 22 Sep 08 - 11:28
We need strong leadership here. Where will it come from?

Us...if we'd ever get off imitating, and admiring the bullshit artists that got us into this mess, and regained a sound mind through spiritual, and moral awareness!!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Crash of U.S. Economy
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 23 Sep 08 - 12:25 AM

Guess I should change my name to,'Guest from forgetting to sign in'....sorry


From: GUEST
Date: 23 Sep 08 - 12:17 AM

From: Riginslinger
Date: 22 Sep 08 - 11:28
We need strong leadership here. Where will it come from?

Us...if we'd ever get off imitating, and admiring the bullshit artists that got us into this mess, and regained a sound mind through spiritual, and moral awareness!!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Crash of U.S. Economy
From: Riginslinger
Date: 24 Sep 08 - 07:55 AM

Finally, somebody got up enough nerve to publish something. ILLEGAL ALIENS & THE MORTGAGE MESS


ILLEGAL ALIENS & THE MORTGAGE MESS
Comments: 1Read Comments Leave a Comment Bush: His lax policies enabled fraud.

Last updated: 7:03 am
September 24, 2008
Posted: 3:51 am
September 24, 2008

AS panicked politicians prepare to fork over $1 trillion in taxpayer funding to rescue Wall Street, they've fingered regulation, deregulation, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, the Community Reinvestment Act, Jimmy Carter, Bill Clinton, both Bushes, greedy banks, greedy borrowers, greedy short-sellers and minority-home-ownership promoters for blame.

But there's one villain that has slipped notice: how illegal immigration, crime-enabling banks and open-borders Bush policies fueled the mortgage crisis. It's no coincidence that the areas hardest hit by the foreclosure wave - Loudoun County, Va., California's Inland Empire, Stockton and San Joaquin Valley, and Las Vegas and Phoenix - also happen to be some of the nation's largest illegal alien sanctuaries. Half of the mortgages to Hispanics are subprime. A quarter of all those subprime loans are in default and foreclosure.

Regional reports across the country have decried the subprime meltdown's impact on illegal-immigrant "victims." A July report showed that in seven of the 10 metro areas with the highest foreclosure rates, Hispanics were at least one-third of the population; in two of those areas - Merced and Salinas-Monterey, Calif. - Hispanics comprised half the population. The National Council of La Raza and its Development Fund have received millions in federal funds to "counsel" their constituents on obtaining mortgages with little to no money down; the group almost succeeded in attaching a $10 million earmark for itself in one of the housing bills passed this spring.

For the last five years, I've reported on the rapidly expanding illegal-alien home-loan racket. The top banks clamoring for their handouts as their profits plummet, led by Wachovia and Bank of America, launched aggressive campaigns to woo illegal-alien homebuyers. The quasi-governmental Wisconsin Housing and Economic Development Authority guaranteed home loans to illegal immigrants.

The Washington Post noted in 2005: "Hispanics, the nation's fastest-growing major ethnic or racial group, have been courted aggressively by real-estate agents, mortgage brokers and programs for first-time buyers that offer help with closing costs. Ads proclaim: "Sin verificacion de ingresos! Sin verificacion de documento!" - which loosely translates as, 'Income tax forms are not required, nor are immigration papers.' "

Fraudsters also have engaged in house-flipping rings using illegal aliens as straw buyers. Among many examples the FBI cites: a conspiracy in Las Vegas involving a former Nevada First Residential Mortgage Company branch manager who directed loan officers and processors in the origination of 233 fraudulent Federal Housing Authority loans valued at over $25 million. The defrauders made and submitted false employment and income documentation for borrowers; most were illegal immigrants from Mexico. To date, the FBI reported, "Fifty-eight loans with a total value of $6.2 million have gone into default, with a loss to the Housing and Urban Development Department of over $1.9 million."

It's the tip of the iceberg. Thanks to lax Bush administration policies allowing illegal aliens to use "matricula consular cards" and taxpayer-identification numbers to open bank accounts, mortgage fraud has grown. Money-lenders still have no access to a verification system to check Social Security numbers before approving loans.

In an interview about rampant illegal-alien home-loan fraud, a spokeswoman for the US General Accounting Office told me five years ago: "Considering the size of Los Angeles, New York, Chicago, Houston and other large cities throughout the United States known to be inundated with illegal aliens, I don't think the federal government is willing to expose this problem for financial reasons as well as for fear of political repercussions."

The chickens are coming home to roost. Law-abiding taxpayers are going to pay for it.

Subject: RE: BS: Crash of U.S. Economy
From: CarolC
Date: 24 Sep 08 - 08:02 AM

Link to the above editorial (Illegal Aliens & the Mortgage Mess), by Michelle Malkin, in the New York Post...

http://www.nypost.com/seven/09242008/postopinion/opedcolumnists/illegal_aliens__the_mortgage_mess_130482.htm

Subject: RE: BS: Crash of U.S. Economy
From: CarolC
Date: 24 Sep 08 - 08:03 AM

I notice Michelle doesn't make a distinction between Hispanics, and "illegal aliens".

Subject: RE: BS: Crash of U.S. Economy
From: Wolfgang
Date: 24 Sep 08 - 01:54 PM

German reactions to the crisis:
The World Shouldn't Have to Bear the Burden for America's Lapses (transl. from DER SPIEGEL)

Experts have also criticized the American rescue package for a number of other reasons.... "The government is only buying bad risks and, in doing so, nationalizing the losses." Dietrich adds that taxpayers won't share in any of the profits that the government hopes the stabilized market will bring about in the long run.
According to Kooths, instead of buying those responsible for the crisis out of it and calling on other countries to provide funds, the US should create political regulations that will prevent a situation like this from happening again in the future.

The 700B plan is only a short term help increasing the basic problem that the USA spend more than they produce. This crisis will be seen by future historians as the beginning of the downfall of the dollar.

It is a bit puzzling that such a conservative government forgets the market and recourses to Socialist (not in terms of who profits, but in terms of how to use the money) methods. Both, the former Socialist European countries and the Capitalist USA have forgotten that in the long run the value of money depends on productivity. During the last couple of years too many people in the USA have believed that one can make money out of nothing. Some can, for some time, but that comes at a price. I'm only sorry that in too many cases this price is not paid by the profiteers.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: Crash of U.S. Economy
From: CarolC
Date: 24 Sep 08 - 03:25 PM

That's because the US government is not conservative. It's just corrupt. In my opinion, the US government is the most corrupt government in the world.

Subject: RE: BS: Crash of U.S. Economy
From: Donuel
Date: 24 Sep 08 - 03:46 PM

Support Our Wall St. Bust
In Bush We Trust

Nothin's for nothin
Pay Your Wall Street Debt

Bush Voters
Should pay
the Wall St debt.

Subject: RE: BS: Crash of U.S. Economy
From: Ebbie
Date: 24 Sep 08 - 03:56 PM

Their profits are their profits, their losses are ours.

The Republican Party is in apparent conflict. I found this on a link:

"We do not support government bailouts of private institutions. Government interference in the markets exacerbates problems in the marketplace and causes the free market to take longer to correct itself."

-- Republican Party platform, 2008

Subject: RE: BS: Crash of U.S. Economy
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 24 Sep 08 - 05:18 PM

Don'y pay any attention to the guys behind the candidate.

Subject: RE: BS: Crash of U.S. Economy
From: GUEST,petr
Date: 24 Sep 08 - 05:18 PM

well pigs are flying and hell actually has frozen over - now that Comrade Bush has nationalized bear stearns aig and the frannies.. and spend 700+billion (clean with no strings attached) also Paulsons demands are that there be no accountability on his part - that he should be free of any legal review etc.. Only weeks ago he was saying the economy is fundamentally sound .. (I dont think they have a clue as to what theyre doing)

- Sweden went through a similar bubble and crash in the early 90s but they certainly didnt hand over the money no strings attached..

and now that congress is demanding a say in top managers salaries
those same wall st. bankers who made the mess are actually saying 'its not appropriate for Govt to decide salaries..'

Wolfgang is absolutely right about the rest of the world not being interested in bearing the burden when the US overspends and the dollar loses value.. (Which is why Cheney said that 'deficits dont matter'
they always knew the US could pass it on to the rest of the world -since the dollar is the worlds main currency, many nations have money in treasury bills, oil is traded in $s. The point is that a state taxes its citizens - an empire taxes other nations) So when the dollar devalues everyone else bears the burden.

Subject: RE: BS: Crash of U.S. Economy
From: Bill D
Date: 24 Sep 08 - 07:37 PM

duplicate post from other thread on bailout:

economic theories from the.......past?

Subject: RE: BS: Crash of U.S. Economy
From: GUEST,petr
Date: 25 Sep 08 - 12:27 AM

from 1998 when the downfall of LTCM threatened the world economy..

step right up

and this one..

comrade bush

Subject: RE: BS: Crash of U.S. Economy
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 25 Sep 08 - 12:52 AM

I'm Ba-a-a-ck!...
Great posts from Rig,!!!..Finally someone else is waking up to the illegal alien debacle!! (I've certainly been the target of attacks for voicing(typing) my thoughts on the matter, but who cares?..I'm right, and now the lights are going on!)
Another thing to ponder,..the Federal Reserve is yet ANOTHER PRIVATE CORPORATION!! ...It is not a government agency..so, the question is(and should be asked loud and clear!!) "Is this just another 'hostile take over', of one corporation by another, using taxpayers money to fund it???" Once the 'Fed' 'prints(if you will)Read: Creates the money out of thin air, then charges the taxpayers (us),interest to put this make believe money into circulation, why not just get rid of the 'Fed'??, thereby eliminating a huge portion of the national debt, which is mostly just folly???? We are paying interest upon interest(compound interest) on money that never existed, till they said it did, increasing the national debt, inflation, and taxes to pay for it, when it was never(under the constitution, remember that??) authorized to print???? Now they want to print more, charge us for it, and are threatening us, with controlling our economy, when they don't even really have that power!!!...........but we got used to it, and no one objected, not even us writers!...probably would if certain heads weren't up certain asses! (Vote for me, vote for me,..its all bullshit!!!) ..Been telling you all along!
Maybe Little Hawk will interpret it for ya'.........(he's very good at that!)

Subject: RE: BS: Crash of U.S. Economy
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 25 Sep 08 - 01:06 AM

Watch this one, coming up...The 'government will Solve the illegal alien problem, tax problems, ID theft problem, with this one...Implanting microchips in the 'law abiding taxpayers'(citizenship won't matter)...which has been a goal for a while...now they have the reason to sell to the dumbed down public, of course minimizing Christianity will have to go hand in hand with it, because of ALL 'religions' in the world, Christianity, prophesizes the 'mark of the beast',...2000 years ago, that this is where it is headed. Laugh if you will, but also, consider it, and its ramifications!

Subject: RE: BS: Crash of U.S. Economy
From: Joe Offer
Date: 25 Sep 08 - 01:12 AM

Well, Sanity, the Federal Reserve was created by law, and its board of directors is appointed by the President. Its expenses are (largely) borne by the member banks, which makes it a quasi-government organization - not quite a "private corporation," as you contend.
I rather like the fact that it's paid for (mostly) by the banks that make use of it, but I think most people would agree that it's primarily a government entity. AMTRAK and the Postal Service are corporations, too - but they're also primarily government entities.
-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: Crash of U.S. Economy
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 25 Sep 08 - 01:17 AM

President Wilson signed it in, and publicly regretted it saying "What have I done to the country?" It can be undone, as well. It was enacted while congress was out for another one of its Holiday breaks...like the 'passing' of NAFTA, during Clinton's reign. ..It is NOT a government agency.

Subject: RE: BS: Crash of U.S. Economy
From: Riginslinger
Date: 25 Sep 08 - 07:23 AM

"...Christianity will have to go hand in hand with it, because of ALL 'religions' in the world, Christianity, prophesizes the 'mark of the beast',..."


                  That's because people engaged in religion are basically beasts.

Subject: RE: BS: Crash of U.S. Economy
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 25 Sep 08 - 10:32 AM

The most corrupt in the world, CarolC? I can assure you the US government is a long way short of that achievement :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Crash of U.S. Economy
From: freda underhill
Date: 25 Sep 08 - 10:35 AM

To give you an idea how bad the American economy is, Mexico is now calling for a fence along the border.

Subject: RE: BS: Crash of U.S. Economy
From: Donuel
Date: 25 Sep 08 - 10:43 AM

Joe,
The Federal Reserve was created by law...

well yes and no. It was created while Congress was not in session like an absentee appointment.

Morgan, Rockefeller, Farichilds and Ascott were the founders of the "law" to create a central bank (fed Reserve)that the US had tried to avoid.

FDR used the Fed Reserve for stimulus purchases and thus began the debt standard. Each administration from then on piled on more debt until today when we see we have finally reached the outer boundary of a now impossible debt to manage or hide.

The long term soultion wil demand the Fed Reserve to be put inside the Treasury department so that their request to create inflation will have to be approved by Congress.

Also the SEC will have to have farmeers guarding the hen house instead of FOXes.

Subject: RE: BS: Crash of U.S. Economy
From: Donuel
Date: 25 Sep 08 - 10:49 AM

my disclaimer, I am not a PHD Senior Economist* and my views do not reflect upon anyone but myself and I bear not respondsibility for anyones actions base upon my observation, knowledge or percieved advice. I request to extend and or revise my remarks for acuracy and clarity.


*however I am married to one.

Subject: RE: BS: Crash of U.S. Economy
From: Donuel
Date: 25 Sep 08 - 10:55 AM

In the meantime unemployment will double or triple over two years with or without the 700 bil.

It will be a time for more compassion or the streets will grow too mean to walk. While poor Republicans will be getting what some think they deserve for not listening or at least not listening to more than just one source, these people will be in pain. As Palin says "a world of hurt"
We all learn best from experience. The sad truth is many will not even survive to learn. Some will take their life and others will have it taken.

Subject: RE: BS: Crash of U.S. Economy
From: Riginslinger
Date: 25 Sep 08 - 12:53 PM

"...my disclaimer, I am not a PHD Senior Economist*..."


                Donuel - You're lucky! They've all been wrong since Reagan.

Subject: RE: BS: Crash of U.S. Economy
From: Amos
Date: 25 Sep 08 - 01:37 PM

NEither Rig nor GfS have provided any numbers to indicater that they care to discriminate between "Hispanic" and "illegal immigrant", in their rush to blame the suckers for the con job exercised on them by slick white boys with dreams of high finance.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Crash of U.S. Economy
From: Donuel
Date: 25 Sep 08 - 03:04 PM

Ther aren't any racist reactionairies posting here...is there?

Even Lou Dobbs has become a parody of himself lately.

Subject: RE: BS: Crash of U.S. Economy
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 25 Sep 08 - 04:04 PM

Well, one thing's for sure: Whatever the economy does in the future, it won't be the wunnerful "let the market decide" free economy that's been so heavily bragged about.

Subject: RE: BS: Crash of U.S. Economy
From: Riginslinger
Date: 25 Sep 08 - 04:28 PM

"Ther aren't any racist reactionairies posting here...is there?"


               No, there ain't!


   "NEither Rig nor GfS have provided any numbers to indicater that they care to discriminate between "Hispanic" and "illegal immigrant", in their rush to blame the suckers..."

                   What's the question? Is it racist to call Hispanics and illegal immigrants suckers? Or what is the number of illegal immigrants compared to the number of Hispanics, or...?

Subject: RE: BS: Crash of U.S. Economy
From: CarolC
Date: 25 Sep 08 - 05:37 PM

I don't think anyone can find a government whose corruption is on the scale of that of the govermment of the US in terms of how much of the world is negatively impacted by it. Which to my thinking, makes the US government the most corrupt government in the world.

Subject: RE: BS: Crash of U.S. Economy
From: heric
Date: 25 Sep 08 - 05:42 PM

The suckers are renters, people who bought only as much house as they could afford, people who pay their debts (even if they could make a quicker gain by walking away from a devalued house), the people who paid off their homes, and our offspring.

Subject: RE: BS: Crash of U.S. Economy
From: Riginslinger
Date: 25 Sep 08 - 05:45 PM

heric - I agree.

Subject: RE: BS: Crash of U.S. Economy
From: Donuel
Date: 25 Sep 08 - 05:58 PM

heic called me a sucker.

I bought my house with cash

I bought my car with cash

The republicans have taught me...

Save and you are a sucker

be prudent and you are a sucker


I do not want to pay a third party for my need to spend.
But now I have to pay for my neighbors mortgage.

Subject: RE: BS: Crash of U.S. Economy
From: Donuel
Date: 25 Sep 08 - 06:02 PM

Tommorrow will live in infamy

Subject: RE: BS: Crash of U.S. Economy
From: Amos
Date: 25 Sep 08 - 07:11 PM

Heric:

My house is paid for. I am smart enough not to be suckered by slick mortgage sales people, but I am a native English speaker, college educated and hard trained in the school of hard knocks.

If I were gullible, excessively jopeful, or desperate I have had thousands of opportunities from these same hucksters to go into debt above my means to handle it.

None of them appeared to have any qualms about inviting, pressuring or luring me into a precarious situation.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Crash of U.S. Economy
From: GUEST,petr
Date: 25 Sep 08 - 07:38 PM

renters are suckers... squatting is the in thing

Subject: RE: BS: Crash of U.S. Economy
From: Peace
Date: 25 Sep 08 - 07:50 PM

Why did people expect house prices to keep rising? This is not a crash, it's an uncontrolled landing. I saw pwoplw here buy places that had doubled in a single year, WTF--did they expect that it all would double again? There comes a point when $450,000 for some rooms and a place to take a crap is just a bit much. This is that point. Welcome to the brave new world. BUT, ya wanna take tow to one odds that Bush and Cheney's business interests and associates will do OK? Three to one?

Subject: RE: BS: Crash of U.S. Economy
From: Peace
Date: 25 Sep 08 - 07:58 PM

people, not pwoplw.

Also that was two to one odds

Kerisyte, I can't type worth s%%t anymore. Need glasses, preferably filled with scotch. I still won't be able to type, but I won't give a shit!

Subject: RE: BS: Crash of U.S. Economy
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 25 Sep 08 - 08:02 PM

"...I invested, I deposited, I voted every fall
Did I ever get a penny saved, them bastards took it all"

(Four Prominent Bastards, Ogden Nash)

Subject: RE: BS: Crash of U.S. Economy
From: heric
Date: 25 Sep 08 - 08:13 PM

>None of them appeared to have any qualms about inviting, pressuring or luring me into a precarious situation.<

I agree with you that there are innocents in this category as well, and that predatory lending practices should be fought with flamethrower intensity, because they can damage the hopes of small folks for decades of setback. However, I also don't think we should be a nation of whiners to the extent we can't accept the blame that lies with Main Street denizens. Neither of us knows the relative balance in the separate categories. But as Peace says, $430,000 for a couple of rooms and a place to crap (for zero down!!) was unsustainable and obvious. It was only a few years ago that the idea of buying a house you could ever pay for was an idea that went the way of the Dodo.

I still am mystified about Greenspan's quote from a few years back that you can't see a bubble when it is forming. We could see it as clear as day.
-----------------------------------

Frank Ahrens, Washington Post Staff Writer - Thursday, September 25, 2008

"The director of the Congressional Budget Office said yesterday that the proposed Wall Street bailout could actually worsen the current financial crisis.

During testimony before the House Budget Committee, Peter R. Orszag -- Congress's top bookkeeper -- said the bailout could expose the way companies are stowing toxic assets on their books, leading to greater problems.

"Ironically, the intervention could even trigger additional failures of large institutions, because some institutions may be carrying troubled assets on their books at inflated values," Orszag said in his testimony. "Establishing clearer prices might reveal those institutions to be insolvent."

Subject: RE: BS: Crash of U.S. Economy
From: Riginslinger
Date: 25 Sep 08 - 09:31 PM

"I still am mystified about Greenspan's quote from a few years back that you can't see a bubble when it is forming. We could see it as clear as day."


                   Yeah, that's the part that amazes me. A few years ago you could have scraped a drunk up off the sidewalk with a pitch fork any place in the country, and he could have told you this is exactly where we were headed. Why graduates of Princeton, Harvard, and Yale couldn't figure it out has to make one wonder.

Subject: RE: BS: Crash of U.S. Economy
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 25 Sep 08 - 10:41 PM

From: Peace
Date: 25 Sep 08 - 07:50 PM

Why did people expect house prices to keep rising? This is not a crash, it's an uncontrolled landing. I saw pwoplw here buy places that had doubled in a single year, WTF--did they expect that it all would double again? There comes a point when $450,000 for some rooms and a place to take a crap is just a bit much. This is that point. Welcome to the brave new world. BUT, ya wanna take tow to one odds that Bush and Cheney's business interests and associates will do OK? Three to one?

RIGHT ON THE MARK!!!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Crash of U.S. Economy
From: Riginslinger
Date: 25 Sep 08 - 10:53 PM

All of which proves, of course, they were drunks on the sidewalk.

Subject: RE: BS: Crash of U.S. Economy
From: Donuel
Date: 26 Sep 08 - 12:09 PM

http://usera.imagecave.com/donuel/bail.jpg

Subject: RE: BS: Crash of U.S. Economy
From: Donuel
Date: 26 Sep 08 - 12:49 PM

http://usera.imagecave.com/donuel/crash.jpg