BS: Boyfriend or husband

Subject: RE: BS: Boyfriend or husband
From: Scooby Doo
Date: 22 Jul 07 - 01:59 PM

Dave,
You keep it warm under your cap too.



Scooby.

Subject: RE: BS: Boyfriend or husband
From: Dave Earl
Date: 22 Jul 07 - 01:48 PM

Peace,

Don't know why Uncle B is asking this question but if Diane sees it she will answer for herself.

As it happens I think I know the answer to the question.

Dave

Subject: RE: BS: Boyfriend or husband
From: Scooby Doo
Date: 22 Jul 07 - 01:34 PM

Its a lot better than the "Mrses" OR "Her Indoors".I don't think the female kind is that callous about there partner.




Scooby

Subject: RE: BS: Boyfriend or husband
From: Ebbie
Date: 22 Jul 07 - 01:27 PM

Uncle Boko (you don't seem all that avuncular!), I know a number of married folks who refer to their 'significant others' as "partner".

'Partner in life' is a good phrase, methinks.

Subject: RE: BS: Boyfriend or husband
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 22 Jul 07 - 01:08 PM

So?

Subject: RE: BS: Boyfriend or husband
From: MBSLynne
Date: 22 Jul 07 - 01:05 PM

Yes, low self-esteem is probably the phrase I was looking for, but I think it's more a case of not knowing oneself properly

Love Lynne

Subject: RE: BS: Boyfriend or husband
From: Uncle Boko
Date: 22 Jul 07 - 12:57 PM

It's funny how lesbians and homos never refer to girlfriend or boyfriend - it's always the hideous "partner".

Subject: RE: BS: Boyfriend or husband
From: Scooby Doo
Date: 22 Jul 07 - 12:51 PM

How about Low Self Esteem Lynne.



Scooby.

Subject: RE: BS: Boyfriend or husband
From: MBSLynne
Date: 22 Jul 07 - 11:00 AM

Yes Sins, it sounds very similar. Hopefully it's not TOO common but it still seems to happen more often than it should. The woman I'm talking about doesn't seem to see it as possible to be a person without a man. Personally I think you need to know who you are and be comfortable with that before you start going into relationships. While I don't like to cast 'nasturtiums' and I know that my friend's parents are still together, I wonder how much of her attitude is due to upbringing? Perhaps one of the things we need to be giving our children is help to sort out their own identity while they are still developing?

And that's what it boils down to, certainly in these cases. Not just lack of ability to make a commitment, but lack of....I don't know...a feeling of self-worth? Comes back to the old thing: how can you love someone else properly if you don't love yourself? (And of course that doesn't mean gratifying yourself at every opportunity)

Love Lynne

Love Lynne

Subject: RE: BS: Boyfriend or husband
From: SINSULL
Date: 22 Jul 07 - 10:52 AM

I had forgotten about a woman I used to know when I worked in pharmaceuticals (legal). She was divorced after she lost a breast to cancer and a child was born with a minor deformity. He couldn't deal with either.

Everytime I visited her she was "in love" with a new man including a gay man at the office "who needed a woman" and a homeless man who showed up at her door, painted a bathroom and slept in her bed that night. Her 15 year old daughter had an endless array of boyfriends sleeping over and planned to quit school when she turned 16. Her young son (about ten) was an angry child and Mom couldn't figure out why.

This woman was a customer and I had to take her out to lunch and sometimes dinner. Every time she managed to cruise the bar and invite some guy over to the table. Usually he had a friend for me but I would decline the offer. Rarely did they have teeth or jobs. Rarely were they anywhere near sober. She seemed to have her identity confused with having a man. Sad.

I have known one or two women like this but I viewed it as their insecurity/image problem rather than typical behavior.

Subject: RE: BS: Boyfriend or husband
From: MBSLynne
Date: 22 Jul 07 - 10:01 AM

No need to be sorry George. I agree entirely. She is only mid 30s yet she is already starting to be a 'sad' person. Last time I saw her she was over-made up wearing tarty clothes with her hair sprayed so it didn't move even when she did. She was talking about having tummy-tucks to get rid of her bulge after having babies. (Swimming regularly would be much better, and cheaper!). She has nail extensions, hair extensions...in fact, there isn't much of her which is actually real any more. And she is STILL obviously not happy. All the things she's been chasing all her life have proved false and have given her no real happiness at all. It's actually very sad. And all too common.

Love Lynne

Subject: RE: BS: Boyfriend or husband
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 22 Jul 07 - 06:41 AM

Sorry Lynne, but your friend is for me a typical example of someone looking after number one only while pretending/playing at commitment and looking for instant gratification with no idea or plan for her own future - all the modern traits. She has a high likelihood of being a sad old woman one day (though she'll never admit it, she'll brag about always doing what she wanted and being "carefree" etc, as if that is somehow something to aspire to).

Being "carefree" is crap for hapiness. I have always been happiest when I achieved something, or when I made someone I love happy, or even when I make someone I don't know happy. Without caring, such things don't just happen.

Hapiness implies joy. I don't think you can make yourself happy - only satisfied.

Subject: RE: BS: Boyfriend or husband
From: Scooby Doo
Date: 22 Jul 07 - 06:40 AM

No i have not got them both on the go thank goodness.Miskin Man is involved with Eyelander and i wish them both the best for the future what ever it brings.


Scooby.

Subject: RE: BS: Boyfriend or husband
From: MBSLynne
Date: 22 Jul 07 - 06:19 AM

I had in mind one particular friend of mine who seems typical of a lot of people I've observed. She had a baby when she was about 20 and the father was never involved...possibly never told about the child. She and baby lived with her parents but this was much too restrictive for her so when proposed to by a nice man who, at the time she was madly in love with, she got married. Steve adopted her son, treated him as his own, was a hardworking man who earned a good living. He worked away from home quite often but she was happy because he brought in more money that way. They had another child, Angie didn't go to work but occupied herself with doing up her house to within an inch of it's life and flitting from one enthusiasm to another, such as keeping chickens, growing vegetables etc.

Then she got bored. She wasn't unhappy with Steve but said that she found him boring, so she started an affair with the man next door but one. She instigated it, chased him until he succumbed then had him around to the house while the kids were at school and husband was away. Pretty soon it was madly in love and she had to be with him forever so out went Steve. This was all too heavy for the new boyfriend who went back to his previous girlfriend. So Angie went on the net to find another man. She is now on her (I think) third. They've all lived with her and she is always madly in love with each at the time. she has now moved to where the current boyfriend lives, a long way from her original home, but last heard she was getting bored with him.

This is perhaps an extreme situation but not uncommon...and an appaling life for the two children

Love Lynne

Subject: RE: BS: Boyfriend or husband
From: robomatic
Date: 21 Jul 07 - 04:17 PM

As long as you stay human in the end.

Subject: RE: BS: Boyfriend or husband
From: Dave Earl
Date: 21 Jul 07 - 03:22 PM

"You've made your bed and now you must lie in it"

And sometimes one party or another will "cut off their nose to spite their face"

Some off you may know what makes me say that!!!

Dave

Subject: RE: BS: Boyfriend or husband
From: SINSULL
Date: 21 Jul 07 - 03:19 PM

I think you hit the nail on the head with the "happily ever after" reference. I would love to see Cinderella and Snow White at fifty. Robin Hood and Maid Marion lived happily ever after - she in a convent and him off fighting in the Crusades.

Subject: RE: BS: Boyfriend or husband
From: Becca72
Date: 21 Jul 07 - 02:58 PM

With that I completely agree :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Boyfriend or husband
From: MBSLynne
Date: 21 Jul 07 - 02:46 PM

Having thought about what I just said and what Becca said, I'm not saying that people should stay together for the sake of their children in any circumstances. It's just that I've seen far too many people I know allow their marriage to break up, not because it was particularly unhappy, but for a pursuit of some perceived happiness. I think perhaps we've come to beieve that our own happiness is paramount, which, if one has children, it isn't. Their happiness and well being is paramount. I also think that, possibly due to films and television, we have a somewhat warped view of what we believe we need to make us happy. Marriages aren't generally a fairystory, they take work and sometimes just sticking it out even when it isn't like the "Happy ever after" you thought it would be. To quote another saying from my parents' era "You've made your bed and now you must lie in it"

Love Lynne

Subject: RE: BS: Boyfriend or husband
From: Becca72
Date: 21 Jul 07 - 02:40 PM

Yes, Lynne but why would you want to be? Talking to the spouse you're keeping your unhappiness from and allowing them to help you try to fix it (or if unfixable to leave) is a much better option in my mind.   I'm certainly not advocating the instant divorce mindset of this day and age; I think you should do all that you can to make it work. But everyone deserves to be happy in their life and sometimes that can't happen in current situations.
If you don't think the kids know something is wrong you're fooling yourself, not them. My parents never fought in front of me but I knew.

Subject: RE: BS: Boyfriend or husband
From: MBSLynne
Date: 21 Jul 07 - 02:20 PM

It's perfectly possible to make a marriage APPEAR happy, not only to outsiders but to your partner and to your children and if you do a good enough job of it you cease to be unhappy yourself. You may not be able to say "I'm happy" but you don't spend all your time in misery. There's quite a wide spectrum of marriages in the less-than-perfect category. I wouldn't advocate staying together for the sake of the4 children if there is violence or even many arguements, but a person can be less than happy in a marriage without any of that.

Love Lynne

Subject: RE: BS: Boyfriend or husband
From: Becca72
Date: 21 Jul 07 - 02:09 PM

I'd like to speak on behalf of the children in the "stay together for the sake of" scenario. Please, if you're that unhappy...leave. You are not doing your children any favors. I was there myself from birth to age 8. Stay FRIENDS for the sake of your children, certainly. Teach your children about commitment in a different lesson..not one that shows commitment in the bad light of a miserable marriage. Seems more like a prison sentence when they see it that way.

Subject: RE: BS: Boyfriend or husband
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 21 Jul 07 - 01:58 PM

I too belong in that school of thought, Lynne - whether I've brung up that way or for whatever reason.

It strikes me that in an age when "commitment" is so much talked about, people are least willing to commit. Or when they say that they do, it means less than nothing to many of them. They only pretend at commitment to get what they want, then they feel free to break it. Not everyone is like that, of course; but far too many, certainly more than a generation or so ago.

If you accept the above, then this means that for many people rebelling against external restrictions to their freedom, from law or church etc, is little more than a hypocritical ruse to leave themselves held only by the force of their own "commitment"! .i.e wanting it both ways. Bugger all moral strength - and why not, after all, who has promoted "moral strength" in the last xx years? Not the politicians, or the media, or the educational establishments, or the Church with its scandals.

Subject: RE: BS: Boyfriend or husband
From: MBSLynne
Date: 21 Jul 07 - 01:36 PM

Infidelity has always happened...of course, but certainly in my parents' youth (1940/50s) people were less inclined lightly to go off with someone else. As my parents and their friends say "You just didn't do it!" I've seen so many people I know decide to trade in one partner for another with waht seems like little thought for anything except their own pleasure and some idea of chasing happiness. What really shocks me is how easy it seems to be for people to break up their children's secure family for their own pleasure. My marriage has been through a sticky patch or two but I would move heaven and earth to make sure that our family unit stays complete for the sake of my children. I know a lot of people will say "The children are better off with parents apart if they fight all the time and are unhappy". Well I believe you have to subsume your own idea of happiness and, as they used to say in my parents' era "Make the best of things".

Love Lynne

Subject: RE: BS: Boyfriend or husband
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 21 Jul 07 - 12:59 PM

Agree LH (it was me who said it). It's honesty that prevents infidelity, not external threats, whether from society, church or state. The latter simply drive it underground.

Subject: RE: BS: Boyfriend or husband
From: Little Hawk
Date: 21 Jul 07 - 12:55 PM

Interesting post, SINSULL. I understand your thing about the control issue perfectly, and I also have never married.

MBSLynee asked, "with less disapproval from society in general, has infidelity become more common?"

No, I don't think it has. As a matter of fact, I think it may be more common in societies where there is much greater dissaproval. I think that in those societies it's far more covert, as someone else said, but just as common, if not more so.

Subject: RE: BS: Boyfriend or husband
From: SINSULL
Date: 21 Jul 07 - 11:05 AM

Actually MSLynne, the "free love" of the 60s and "boys will be boys" attitude of the 50s, I believe, created a far more lenient attitude towards infidelity than I see prevalent today. Certainly, HIV and AIDS makes people think twice both for their own safety and the safety of their husband or wife.

At the same time, at least in the US, we seem to have created a generation based on instant gratification and when anything goes wrong or times get tough, they feel justified in destroying a marriage in order to gain an immediate if not lasting "happiness".

This is a generalization but it is based on the failure of several marriages I have seen over the past year. My cousin ( late 20s) was married for less than two years, has a child and her husband left to live with a woman he met while on a business trip in China. No doubt there is much more to the story but what shocks me is that both are ardent practicing Catholics from families who follow church teachings strictly.

When a marriage lasts less than two years and in one case less than a few months, I have to wonder about expectations, maturity and motive. Some young people seem to playing "house".

Before I am accused of being a voice of doom, I also know many people who have stayed together through the worst of times and have strong, happy marriages. The cousin I mentioned has a sister with three children, two with CF and Crone's. She and her husband are as in love as the day they married. The weekly trips to the ER seem to bring them closer instead of sending one or the other off in search of greener pastures.

My brother's illness would have sent me packing but my sister-in-law stood by him. She and her children saw him through the worst and now he is well, the children are fine and their marriage is stronger than ever.

I have never married and never will. At a painfully young age I decided to have and keep my own. It is a control issue. My home, my bank account, my cats, my car, etc. The concept of trusting someone enough to give up that control is beyond me and is reinforced when I see the nightmare some people live when things go very wrong and lives, finances, friends, etc. get caught up in the mess. There is also a price to be paid for going it alone - I don't recommend it to the faint of heart.

So, to those of you who have chosen the married life, I wish you health, wealth, happiness, long life, healthy children, and a home full of music and laughter.

Subject: RE: BS: Boyfriend or husband
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 21 Jul 07 - 05:50 AM

One has to be able to withdraw honourably from a relationship, as jacqui has done; yet there has also to be a bias towards trying to make a relationship work, where this is doable. The question for me is: Where should this bias come from?

In the past this came from the law, or from the church, or from (local) societal mores. All three of the above when applied absolutely can have terrible extremes, once broken: Excommunication, a reduced legal/financial status, or ostracism from society. So a strong external bias towards staying together can lead to tragedy, suppression of feelings and infidelity has therefore to be covert.

So to avoid such extremes it would appear that the bias needs to come from somewhere else. From within, perhaps? A strong personal sense of moral responsibility towards the partner/family could do it, but how do you instil such sense of responsibility without using external threat of punishment? Today there is nothing that even attempts to teach that, except for a few isolated cases of parents here and there, in pitifully small numbers. And perhaps it was always so, people depended on church or law or society as the external threat, and few taught their children morality "in absolute", as it were.

If we all had that inner sense of moral responsibility, infidelity would all but disappear, I believe. Instead there would be an inner struggle between responsibility and interest, one or the other would win, and you either stay together or choose an honourable dissolution.

And pigs will fly. Because the world we live in does not promote such morality - indeed, quite the opposite. It's not just the effects of Thatcherism, me-first, I'm-all-right-Jack, this has always been so. Few of us can rise above self-interest, eating-the-pie-and-having-it-whole, when cornered by such inner conflicts.

And so, the best we can hope for in such an imperfect world is that we can find someone to love who has enough honesty and that this honesty will not be tested too vigorously by circumstances.

Subject: RE: BS: Boyfriend or husband
From: MBSLynne
Date: 21 Jul 07 - 05:13 AM

I think quite a lot of people either resent or see no need for a legal marriage these days, and there seems to be a big increase in 'humanist' weddings and things like handfastings which are both moral and psychological commitments but not legally binding. To my mind this is the way to go as it serves the commitment purpose without the legal thingy.

Love Lynne

Subject: RE: BS: Boyfriend or husband
From: MBSLynne
Date: 21 Jul 07 - 05:10 AM

In these times of, perhaps, lighter morals and with less disapproval from society in general, has infidelity become more common? Discuss.

Love Lynne

Subject: RE: BS: Boyfriend or husband
From: GUEST,Sooz
Date: 21 Jul 07 - 03:12 AM

I agree with Alba, A very interesting thread.

Subject: RE: BS: Boyfriend or husband
From: jacqui.c
Date: 20 Jul 07 - 10:23 PM

I made the commitment by jacking in the job, selling the house and moving 3000 miles to be with the man I love. Didn't really need marriage to cement this but, for green card purposes......

I never was unfaithful but, when I found that I had deep feelings for another man during my last marriage, I decided, after three painful years, that my marriage could not continue. The other guy never was interested but I felt that, if I could have that sort of feeling, the marriage was not working any more. As it turned out that was the best thing that I could have done. My ex found a new lady very quickly and I, eventually, met Kendall.

Subject: RE: BS: Boyfriend or husband
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 20 Jul 07 - 09:20 PM

My wife and I tried the living together in unmarried bliss bit off and on for a few years, but we'd break up the first time some little problem came along. Then we'd get back together in a couple of months or so. We finally realized that we needed the legal contract in order to break the cycle.

Marriage is, in part, a promise to try to work through difficulties instead of just throwing your shit in the car and leaving.

Subject: RE: BS: Boyfriend or husband
From: JennieG
Date: 20 Jul 07 - 09:11 PM

Moved in together after knowing each other properly for a month.....although we had worked in the same office for 2 1/2 years before that.
Married almost 2 years later because:
a) we wanted to make the commitment to each other
b) I was 9 months pregnant (although he tells people he really married me for my cooking!)
c) family expectations in 1974 were different to now, we were the only people we knew who lived together without being married and there was pressure which, being hormonal and pregnant, I found difficult to withstand
d) the divorce from my practice marriage had just come through

That was in March 1974 and we are still together!

Cheers
JennieG

Subject: RE: BS: Boyfriend or husband
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 20 Jul 07 - 08:29 PM

Ah Little Hawk, how true that last sentence is...

Trouble is, not everyone will accept gracefully that what is sauce for the goose, is also sauce for the gander. Some of the bitterest fights I've witnessed have been between partners where one cheated and got all bent out of shape when the other did the same.

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: Boyfriend or husband
From: Little Hawk
Date: 20 Jul 07 - 08:25 PM

Infidelity is the absolute pits. I've experienced it, but I have not inflicted it upon anyone else...not in this lifetime, anyway. Matter of fact, I experienced it with both the females I was considering marrying (after having lived together for awhile), and that's one of the reasons I thank my lucky stars I did not decide to marry either one of them.

I had other girlfriends who were entirely faithful, I'm happy to say. If you're inclined that way yourself, you never expect the other person to cheat, and it's a real shock when they do.

Subject: RE: BS: Boyfriend or husband
From: katlaughing
Date: 20 Jul 07 - 07:40 PM

Why must a couple by subjected to the outside control of a host of strangers in their own private lives?

Why, indeed. Yet it is that outside control which keeps gay and lesbian partners apart at times of great need, i.e. hospitalisations, etc. and makes them seek laws which will protect their rights as a couple.


Infidelity can be a terrible thing to have happen to a marriage, too. Many years ago, my first husband lost me and his two beautiful children mostly because of his playing around. Of course, we both lost our house and good credit, too. I spoke with him for the first time in thirty years, recently. His life has been a mostly sad thing ever since. He never remarried and, as far as I know, has never had another partner nor owned his own home.

Subject: RE: BS: Boyfriend or husband
From: Alba
Date: 20 Jul 07 - 07:36 PM

There are some really wonderful stories on this thread. I have enjoyed reading them all. Ah Romance..

It just goes to show that if you and yours are meant to be, youlle get together, stay together and not because you have to...but because it was indeed meant to be..*smile*
Jude

Subject: RE: BS: Boyfriend or husband
From: GUEST,petr
Date: 20 Jul 07 - 07:31 PM

friend for 4years,
girlfriend for 1year
wife for 4
mother of 2 girls for 2 1/2 & 8 months

Subject: RE: BS: Boyfriend or husband
From: Little Hawk
Date: 20 Jul 07 - 06:17 PM

Yes, I am aware that the state (and society in general) have a vested interest in people's marriages, gnu....but I don't like the fact that they do. ;-) Not one bit. I don't want anyone else having a vested interest or any form of intrusion in the most intimate matters of my life. I thoroughly resent their legal intrusions into such matters. I resent churches in the same fasion, if they mess around judging people's moral behavior when no harm has been done to either party.

Looking at Charlie Chaplin's life, which involved a series of relationships....he could have handled them a whole lot better if the legal apparatus of society (and the press) had minded their own business and left him and his wives and/or girlfriends alone. As it was, they virtually ruined the man's career and his life, largely because J. Edgar Hoover thought he was a "communist" and spent decades persecuting him until he was finally refused residence in the USA. This was a case of a decent, harmless, and very talented man being driven out of the country by a twisted, paranoid monster with a badge. Hardly a shining moment in American history!

The state IS needed to protect people against other people who are genuinely dangerous or harmful in some way. Charlie Chaplin wasn't the least bit dangerous toward any of his partners, and neither am I. Therefore, like Chaplin, I would prefer that the state mind its own damned business, and I object to its "vested interests" in people's relationships.

The state is theoretically supposed to serve the people. In truth, it is exactly the other way around. The people are made, by force or the implied threat of force, to serve the state. And thus it has ever been, sad to say.

Subject: RE: BS: Boyfriend or husband
From: gnu
Date: 20 Jul 07 - 02:55 PM

The state definitely has a vested interest in your marriage, LH. Number one, the welfare of the children. Number two, YOUR welfare and HER welfare. It's a 50/50 deal here in Canada. It's the only way a divorce can be settled resonably. And, it stops a lot of people from killing each other.... mentally as well as physically.

BTW, as far as "making a marriage legal", you have no choice. I don't know what the law is in your province, but every province has a time limit on it... it's called "common law marriage".

Subject: RE: BS: Boyfriend or husband
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 20 Jul 07 - 01:40 PM

Yep, that puts a hole in it. Clearly there's more than parental example in whether one accepts or is afraid of commitment.

Subject: RE: BS: Boyfriend or husband
From: MBSLynne
Date: 20 Jul 07 - 01:15 PM

Well perhaps I blow that theory. My Mum and Dad have been married for 56 years and they had only known each other for five months before they got married. There were occasional sticky patches in their marriage, as with most, but on the whole they have been happy and provided a solid, united front as an example to us three kids. However I ran a mile as soon as commitment loomed to the extent that I didn't get married until I was 38 and have now been married twice. My sister has also been married twice and my brother is about to marry for the second time. We couldn't have had a much better view of marriage when we were children, but we none of us managed to do tyhe same.

Love Lynne

Subject: RE: BS: Boyfriend or husband
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 20 Jul 07 - 10:18 AM

Agree with you, LH, about childhood experiences being important; and with Scoville's interpretation of your statement.

I committed myself to Nessie the day well before we/she decided to move in. Not the first day of going out, perhaps, but not long after either. I knew pretty soon that she was the one. But that's nothing compared to my folks, which I guess is where I got my impressions from:

My sister and I nicknamed our parents "the doves". She was his first and vice versa, at 20. They stayed together for 68 years, and all my life I remember them being loving and caring towards each other. I remember frequently Dad saying to her "Let me be first!", right up to a year before his death, meaning he wanted to die first because he knew he couldn't survive without her. She'd scold him for that, but my sister and I were very pleased that he got his wish. This eventually gave rise to a song, "Pieces":

"...and yet, without you I go to pieces.
To see you hurt, I think my heart will burst.
I'm hooked, and my dependency increases.
So when it's time to go, let me be first."

Subject: RE: BS: Boyfriend or husband
From: Little Hawk
Date: 20 Jul 07 - 10:09 AM

"more of an impression of what they think of long-term commitment in general"

Perhaps...but every time I ever fell in love with anyone up to at least age 50, I was definitely expecting to be with them "forever". I am 100% monogamous by nature, and I was always looking for the "one true love of my life"...not playing the field.

It would have been a lot easier on me emotionally if I had been inclined toward short involvements with little committment, I assure you.

But, yeah, the idea of marriage definitely scares me. No question about it. I associate it with what I saw in my parents' and grandparents' marriages. The idea of monogamous committment and remaining faithful to one person does not scare me, not when I'm in love with the person. It comes naturally to me.

Concerning the legal ties: Do those not mostly have to do with society's control over a person? If 2 people make a committment to each other then it's under their control, as it should be. It's their private business. If they make it a legal marriage, however, then it comes under the control of the government, the legal system, the courts, the lawyers, possibly a church, and NONE of those people have any business whatsoever in MY emotional relationship with someone! Understand? Why must a couple by subjected to the outside control of a host of strangers in their own private lives?

That is the part of it that I cannot contemplate tolerating, frankly.

Subject: RE: BS: Boyfriend or husband
From: Scoville
Date: 20 Jul 07 - 09:50 AM

The impressions I received were very conflicted. They gave me the impression that marriage would bring a lot of unhappiness and frustration and be an inescapable thing that tied me down and trapped me for the rest of my life.

I've always suspected that this is more of an impression of what they think of long-term commitment in general. If there's nothing legally binding, there's a psychological "out". If you get used to the idea that marriage is a jinx, I'm pretty sure it's more likely to go wrong even if those involved are not consciously thinking so.

My parents have been married 31 years and neither of them is going anywhere. My brother and SIL have been married only two years but, knowing him, especially, I suspect that opposing teams of the NFL could not pull them apart. I'm not married because none of the guys I've been with have been right, but the idea of marriage doesn't scare me.

Subject: RE: BS: Boyfriend or husband
From: Little Hawk
Date: 20 Jul 07 - 09:37 AM

I think the key ingredient is how you feel about marriage in your subconscious...not necessarily in your surface consciousness. It goes back to your childhood experiences, and the impressions you received about marriage at that time.

The impressions I received were very conflicted. They gave me the impression that marriage would bring a lot of unhappiness and frustration and be an inescapable thing that tied me down and trapped me for the rest of my life.

When you believe that sort of thing deeply, it tends to happen. You replay the old tapes.

I had a pretty keen sense of that possibility occurring, so I have never married...although I thought about it a couple of times. In retrospect, if I had gone ahead on either of those occasions it would have been a disaster. I can say that with absolute clarity. So it's a good thing I followed my basic instincts and did not marry either one of those people.

Is there someone out there with whom I could have a lasting and harmonious marriage? Possibly...

They say that anything is possible. ;-)

I just finished watching a movie about Charlie Chaplin. He had a series of oddball marriages and relationships with women mostly far younger than himself. Amazingly enough, the last one turned out to be the right combination...and she was only 18 years old when she married him, but they remained together very happily until his death at 83, and she turned out to be a wonderfully supportive and responsible partner, despite the age difference.

From wickipedia: During Chaplin's legal trouble over the Berry affair, he met Oona O'Neill, daughter of Eugene O'Neill, and married her on June 16, 1943. He was 54; she had just turned 18. The elder O'Neill refused all contact with Oona after the marriage, up until his death. O'Neill and Chaplin each seemed to provide elements missing in the others' lives: she longed for the love of a father figure, and Chaplin craved her loyalty and support as his public popularity declined. The marriage was a long and happy one, with eight children. They had three sons: Christopher, Eugene and Michael Chaplin and five daughters: Geraldine, Josephine, Jane, Victoria and Annette-Emilie Chaplin.

So yeah, anything's possible.

Subject: RE: BS: Boyfriend or husband
From: MBSLynne
Date: 20 Jul 07 - 09:10 AM

We kind of got married three times. We had a very low-key handfasting at Sidmouth the year after we met, then went to Australia where my family lives to get married then we had a 'blessing' back in England so that Ted's family could share it.

I think getting married is fairly irrelevant to whether you stay together or not. Those who have said they've been married for ages would probably still have stayed together just the same if they hadn't been and vice versa.

Love Lynne

Subject: RE: BS: Boyfriend or husband
From: Catherine Jayne
Date: 20 Jul 07 - 09:00 AM

Most of you know my story...or parts of it anyway. We lived together for 3 years, got married after that. Things fell apart, I knew we'd made a mistake getting married. We technically are still married but separated after 18 months. During that time a friend and I became closer and closer. Paul and I have been together a year now and have a beautiful son. We made a commitment to each other earlier in the year but we have no plans to get married. We are still blissfully happy and in love and enjoying family life. Long may it continue.

Best wishes to you and your new boyfriend Scooby.

Khatt

Subject: RE: BS: Boyfriend or husband
From: jonm
Date: 20 Jul 07 - 08:53 AM

Met end of July, got engaged mid-August (and she had a fortnight's holiday in between!) and married end of July the following year, due to the organisation hassles of a large family (hers makes ant colonies look small, all my folks could have shared a taxi if they'd been talking to each other).

At the end of this month that will have been 13 years ago.