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Tune Req: For Ireland I'd Not Tell Her Name

Related threads:
Lyr Req: For Ireland I'd Not Tell Her Name (36)
Lyr Req: Ar Éirinn Ní Neosfainn Cé Hí (16)
Tune Req: For Ireland I Won't Tell Her Name (5)
Chord Req: For Ireland I'd not tell her name (5)
Lyr Req: is ar eireann ni neosfainn ce hi (4) (closed)
Lyr Req: For Ireland I would not tell her name (2) (closed)
ar Eirinn ni neosfainn ce hi - Trans (12)
Lyr Req: For Ireland I'll Not Tell Her Name (7) (closed)
Lyr Req: to Aìne (19)
Lyr Req: ar errinn no neosainn (6)


John 26 Apr 99 - 03:47 AM
Tucker 26 Apr 99 - 04:27 AM
Graham Pirt 26 Apr 99 - 05:49 AM
Graham Pirt 26 Apr 99 - 05:58 AM
MudGuard 26 Apr 99 - 07:03 AM
Philippa 26 Apr 99 - 07:42 AM
Ar Éirinn Ní n-Eósainn Cé h-Í 26 Apr 99 - 07:44 AM
Jon W. 26 Apr 99 - 10:54 AM
Bruce O. 26 Apr 99 - 12:08 PM
John in Brisbane 27 Apr 99 - 03:41 AM
Maelgwyn (inactive) 02 May 99 - 07:00 PM
John in Brisbane 19 May 99 - 11:45 PM
Chris Clarke 21 May 99 - 03:26 AM
Matthew Richards 19 Jun 99 - 03:15 PM
PJ 19 Jun 99 - 03:47 PM
PJ 19 Jun 99 - 03:56 PM
John in Brisbane 31 May 00 - 01:14 AM
GUEST,leeneia 31 May 00 - 11:36 PM
Eluned 01 Jun 00 - 12:53 AM
Roger in Sheffield 01 Jun 00 - 12:52 PM
GUEST 02 Jun 00 - 04:23 AM
Sorcha 31 Aug 01 - 05:55 PM
Rich(bodhránai gan ciall) 31 Aug 01 - 06:17 PM
GUEST,Philippa 12 Mar 02 - 08:57 AM
Malcolm Douglas 12 Mar 02 - 11:45 AM
RolyH 12 Mar 02 - 04:06 PM
Bonnie Shaljean 12 Mar 02 - 04:43 PM
masato sakurai 12 Mar 02 - 06:42 PM
GUEST,Annraoi 12 Mar 02 - 08:55 PM
GUEST,Martin Ryan 13 Mar 02 - 10:58 AM
GUEST,Declan 13 Mar 02 - 11:21 AM
MartinRyan 13 Mar 02 - 04:48 PM
GUEST,Annraoi 13 Mar 02 - 05:09 PM
MartinRyan 13 Mar 02 - 05:36 PM
rich-joy 15 Mar 02 - 05:36 AM
dulcimer 22 Jun 02 - 07:37 AM
masato sakurai 22 Jun 02 - 07:51 AM
dulcimer 22 Jun 02 - 04:45 PM
GUEST,Philippa 09 Nov 02 - 05:55 PM
GUEST,Sheeaun@aol.com 09 Nov 02 - 06:05 PM
The Pooka 09 Nov 02 - 06:47 PM
GUEST,Philippa 09 Dec 02 - 07:31 AM
GUEST,Iona 04 Feb 12 - 02:05 AM
Jim Carroll 04 Feb 12 - 06:02 AM
Mr Happy 04 Feb 12 - 06:45 AM
GUEST,999 04 Feb 12 - 07:08 AM
GUEST,Iona 13 Feb 12 - 02:42 AM
GUEST,leeneia 13 Feb 12 - 01:29 PM
GUEST,Iona 14 Feb 12 - 12:53 AM
GUEST,leeneia 14 Feb 12 - 10:10 AM
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Subject: For Ireland I'd Not Tell Her Name
From: John
Date: 26 Apr 99 - 03:47 AM

The Sectionalised ABC Index has lost the link to this beautiful air - which I hope to add some lyrics to in the next few days - anyone able to help with the tune please?

Regards
John in Brisbane


Click for related thread

Search for "tell her name" threads


Messages from multiple threads combined.
-Joe Offer-


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Subject: RE: For Ireland I'd Not Tell Her Name
From: Tucker
Date: 26 Apr 99 - 04:27 AM

Joe? sounds like a job for you lad. New one on me.


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Subject: RE: For Ireland I'd Not Tell Her Name
From: Graham Pirt
Date: 26 Apr 99 - 05:49 AM

There are already lyrics to this tune. I'll try and remember where. Could be a band called Solas.


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Subject: RE: For Ireland I'd Not Tell Her Name
From: Graham Pirt
Date: 26 Apr 99 - 05:58 AM

I've remembered, It was done by a band called Dervish. I've heard them sing it live but am not sure if they've recorded it. The tune has also been recorded by Boys of the Lough


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Subject: Lyr Add: AR ÉIRINN NÍ NEOSFAINN CÉ HÍ
From: MudGuard
Date: 26 Apr 99 - 07:03 AM

Ar Éirinn Ní Neosfainn Cé Hí
[= For Ireland I won't tell you who she is]
as performed by Dervish on their Live in Palma album
Sorry about the many missing pieces ...

There's a home by the wide (avonmole ???)
That will sweep on the (brannagh ???) and sea
And white ribbons (... ???)
(... ???) to the breeze
Where the green ivy clings round the door
And the (... ???) sweety thing (... ???)
Oh my darling a-tuning the notes
Ar Éirinn ní neosfainn cé hi

Like a sick man that lands farther down
I do land for the light of this man
And I pray for own colleen (ban ???)
By (... ???) Irish stew
Oh I climb on the hills of this land
And I swim o'er the (deaths ???) of the sea
To get one kiss from a lily white hand
Ar Éirinn ní neosfainn cé hi

I have (... ???) of those years
Of my life (... ???) through sunshine and rain
And I should even mention by night
For to shield her one moment from pain
For (hasheem ???) in my comfort
(In I've no ???) more comfort enjoyed
(She maybe she ???) is my own,
She is mine come astrife (... ???)
Ar Éirinn ní neosfainn cé hi

Ah but when I (... ???) my own
And is married (... ???) will be
Like a king and a queen on the throne
We will be living in sweet (gentil ???)
Oh 'tis in, I'll have a home of my own
And I (... ???) nice harmony
Oh 'tis then that I'll name where (... ???)
Far far Ireland won't tell her name


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Subject: Lyr Add: AR ÉIRINN NÍ N-EÓSAINN CÉ H-Í
From: Philippa
Date: 26 Apr 99 - 07:42 AM

AR ÉIRINN NÍ N-EÓSAINN CÉ H-Í

Aréir is mé téarnamh um' neoin
Ar an dtaobh thall den teóra 'na mbím,
Do théarnaig an spéir-bhean im' chómhair
D'fhág taomanach breóite lag sinn.

Do ghéilleas dá méin is dá cló,
Dá béal tanaí beó mhilis binn,
Do léimeas fé dhéin dul 'na cómhair,
Is ar éirinn ní n-eósainn cé h-í.

Last night as I strolled abroad
On the far side of my farm
I was approached by a comely maiden
Who left me[? 'sinn' = 'us'] distraught and weak.
I was captivated by her demeanour and shapeliness
By her sensitive and delicate mouth,
I hastened to approach her
But for Ireland I'd not tell her name.

Dá ngéilleadh an spéir-bhean dom' ghlór,
Siad ráidhte mo bheól a bheadh fíor;
Go deimhin duit go ndéanfainn a gnó
Do léirchur i gcóir is i gcrich.
Dó léighfinn go léir stair dom' stór,
'S ba mhéinn liom í thógaint dom chroí,
'S do bhearfainn an chraobh dhi ina dóid,
Is ar éirinn ní n-eósainn cé h-í.

If only this maiden heeded my words,
What I'd tell her would be true.
Indeed I'd devote myself to her
And see to her welfare.
I would regale her with my story
And I longed to take her to my heart
Where I'd grant her pride of place
But for Ireland I'd not tell her name.

Tá spéir-bhruinneal mhaordha dheas óg
Ar an taobh thall de'n teóra 'na mbím.
Tá féile 'gus daonnacht is meóin
Is deise ró mhór ins an mhnaoi,
Tá folt lei a' tuitim go feóir,
Go cocánach ómarach buí.
Tá lasadh 'na leacain mar rós,
Is ar éirinn ní n-eósainn cé h-í.

There is a beautiful young maiden
On the far side of my farm
Generosity and kindness shine in her face
With the exceeding beauty of her countenance.
Her hair reaches to the ground
Sparkling like yellow gold;
Her cheeks blush like the rose
But for Ireland I'd not tell her name.

Verses and translation as given in Mary O'Hara A Song for Ireland. Her notes:

"The melody of this song has travelled far. Clondillon relates hearing a Roumanian folk singer sing the tune believing it to be a Roumanian folksong. Perhaps some soldier of fortune belonging to the Wild Geese had the gift of song! "[ isn't it at least as likely that the tune travelled east to west? - Philippa]

"Seán óg [ó Tuama ?] explained the story to me like this: a young man fell secretly in love with a girl. Too poor to support her and too shy to propose, he went abroad to seek his fortune. However, when he returned to claim his beloved, he was shattered to find her married to his brother. Still in love, he composed this song to her but, for obvious reasons, refused to reveal her name."

The song has also been recorded by De Danann

á = a/ = á
é = e/ = é
í = i/ = í
ó = o/ = ó
ú = u/ = ú


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Subject: RE: For Ireland I'd Not Tell Her Name
From: Ar Éirinn Ní n-Eósainn Cé h-Í
Date: 26 Apr 99 - 07:44 AM

anywhere you see "éirinn" in the text above, the E should be upper case.


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Subject: RE: For Ireland I'd Not Tell Her Name
From: Jon W.
Date: 26 Apr 99 - 10:54 AM

Click here to be taken to a page of references to this tune from an index of Celtic tunes from printed sources. This may help some.


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Subject: RE: For Ireland I'd Not Tell Her Name
From: Bruce O.
Date: 26 Apr 99 - 12:08 PM

Beside the tune, Stanford-Petrie, #1237 (For Ireland I'd not tell her name) listed in the Irish tune index on my website are variants: Stanford-Petrie # 167 (Kilrush Air), and # 1321 (An Cailin Dubh), Joyce, 'Old Irish Folk Music and Songs' (Nancy the Pride of the West). There are two traditional tunes and a seven verse traditional song, in "Er e/ring ni/ neo/ssung ce/ hi/" (And for the world I will not say who she is), to other variants of the tune in JFSS #23, p. 133, (1920).


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Subject: Tune Add: AR ÉIRINN NÍ N-EÓSAINN CÉ H-Í
From: John in Brisbane
Date: 27 Apr 99 - 03:41 AM

Thanks Jon and Bruce. I found a tune under "Er e/ring ni/ neo/ssung ce/ hi/" (or thereabouts). The tune given for An Cailin Dubh is in 4/4 and I could not recognise it.

I'll report back later in this thread.

Regards
John

X: 48
T:AR EIREANN NE NEOSIN CE HI
M:3/4
L:1/8
Q:90
R:AIR
K:G
G>A|"G"B D3 D2|"Em"E G3 "D"A2|"G"B4 (3A/2B/2A/2 G|"G"{c}B D3 DD |! "Em"E G3 "G"BG|"D"A3 B/2A/2 "G"G>A|"G"BG D2 D2|"C"Ec c3/2d/2"Am "c/2 BA|! "G"{Bd}B3 G "D"AG|"Em"E2 "G"D2 CD|"Em"E G2 F "D"AF|"G"G4 B>c|! "G"d2 {Bd}B2 "D"AF|"G"G2 B2 d2|"Em"e4 g>e|"G"d2 B3 {cB}A |! "G"G3 A BG|"D"A4 "G"G>A|"G"BG D2 D2|"Em"E G3 "Am"Ac|! "G"B3 G "D"AG|"Em"E2 "G"{DF}D2 CD|"Em"E G2 F "D"AF|"G"G4 "D"(3FGA|! "G"B D3 "Bm"FD|"Em"E G3 "D"A2|"G"{Bd}B3 G BA|"G"B D3 "Bm"(3DFD|! "Em"E G3 "G"BG|"D"A4 "G"(3GGA|"G"B D3 "D"(3AGF|"C"E c3 "Am"Ac|! "G"B3 c "D"AG|"Em"E2 "G"D2 CD|"Em"E G2 F "D"(3AGF|"G"G4 Bc|! "G"d2 B2 "Am"(3cBA|"G"G2 B2 d2|"Em"{eg}e4 "Bm"(3fgf|"G"d2 B3 B|! "G"GD GB dG|"D"A4 "C"(3cdc|"G"BG D2 CD|"Em"E B3 "Am"(3ABc|! "G"B4 "D"A/2B/2A/2G/2|"Em"E2 "G"D2 (3B,CD|"Em"E G2 F "D"AF|"G"G4|!


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Subject: Lyr Add: FOR IRELAND I'D NOT TELL HER NAME^^
From: Maelgwyn (inactive)
Date: 02 May 99 - 07:00 PM

There's a home by the wide Avonmore
That would sweep o'er the broad open sea
And wide rivers where the waves wash ashore
Whilst bulrushes they wave to the breeze
Where the green ivy clings round the door
And the birds sweetly sing on each tree
O me darling they're tuning they're notes
Is ar Eirinn ni neosfainn ce hi

Like a sick man that longs for the dawn
I do long for the light of her smile
And I pray for my own cailin ban
While I'm waiting for her by the stile
Oh I'd climb all the hills of this land
And I'd swim all the depths of the sea
To get one kiss from her lily-white hand
Is ar Eirinn ni neosfainn ce hi

I have toiled sore those years of my life
Through storm, through sunshine and rain
And I surely would venture my life
For to shield her one moment from pain
For she being my comfort in life
Though my comfort and joy she may be
She's my own, she is my promised wife
Is ar Eirinn ni neosfainn ce hi

O but when I will call her my own
And it's married we both then will be
Like the king and the queen on their throne
We'll be living in sweet unity
O it's then I'll have a home of my own
And I'll rear up a nice family
O it's then that her name will be known
But for Ireland I won't tell her name^^

HTML line breaks added. --JoeClone, 24-Jan-02.


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Subject: RE: For Ireland I'd Not Tell Her Name
From: John in Brisbane
Date: 19 May 99 - 11:45 PM

To Anon who refreshed this thread, thanks for jogging my memory. I have what I believe are quite beautiful new lyrics to this air, but I have yet to receive the author's permission to publish them.

Regards
John


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Subject: RE: For Ireland I'd Not Tell Her Name
From: Chris Clarke
Date: 21 May 99 - 03:26 AM

I wanted to sing this ravishing air with an intriguing title, but I had only heard it as an instrumental, so I wrote my own words to it. I don't have them immediately to hand, but it seems my idea for the reason not to tell her name was not so far removed from the original.

I am very grateful to you for the original words, you have made my day.


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Subject: Lyr req: For Ireland I Won't Tell her Name
From: Matthew Richards
Date: 19 Jun 99 - 03:15 PM

I need the lyrics for the song "For Ireland I Won't Tell Her Name" also known as "Ar Eirinn Ni Neosfainn Ce Hi." It is obviosly a popular traditional song, and has been performed by The Boys of The Lough and most recently, Dervish. Please, if anyone knows what they are, please help me out! Thanks!

Click for lyrics Also here


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Subject: Lyr Add: AR EIRINN NI NEOSFAINN CE HI
From: PJ
Date: 19 Jun 99 - 03:47 PM

Matthew! From the small world department, I was just working on learning this song this morning!

The recording I have is by a wonderful group from San Francisco group called Orla and The Gasmen. They played most recently at the Guinness Fleadh along with Van Morrison, Solas, John Lee Hooker, and Elvis Costello. Cormac Gannon in the group is my bodhrán teacher, and Orla Morrison (lead vocals) is a real powerhouse. Check out their website if you like, at www.cronico.com/orla

Sliante!
PJ

AR EIRINN NI NEOSFAINN CE HI

There's a home by the wide Avonmode
That would sweep o'er the broad open sea
And wide rivers where waves wash ashore
Whilst bulrushes they wave to the breeze.

Where the green ivy clings 'round the door
And the birds sweetly sing from each tree
O me darlin' they're tunin' their notes,
Is ar Eireann ni neosfainn ce hi.

Like a sick man that longs for the dawn
I do long for the light of her smile
And I do pray for me own cailin fan
While I'm waiting for her by the Stile.

O I'd climb all the hills of this land
And I'd swim all the depths of the sea
To get one kiss from her lily-white hand
Is ar Eireann ni neosfainn ce hi.

I've toiled sore these years of my life
Through storm, through sunshine and rain
And I surely would venture my life
For to shield her one moment from pain.

For she me being my comfort in life
Though my comfort and joy she may be
She's my own, she is my promised wife
Is ar Eireann ni neosfainn ce hi.

O but when I will call her my own
And it's married we both then shall be
Like the King and the Queen on their throne
We'll be livin' in sweet unity.

O it's then I'll have a home of my own
And I'll rear up a nice family
O it's then that her name will be known
Is ar Eireann ni neosfainn ce hi.


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Subject: RE: Lyr req: For Ireland I Won't Tell her Name
From: PJ
Date: 19 Jun 99 - 03:56 PM

Sorry that text came out so poorly phrased. It was supposed to be 4 phrases (on separate lines) to each verse. Can somebody advise me how to make that happen?

When I type a line then a carriage return to drop down to the next line, it puts all the phrases back into one sentence for me. This time I tried putting a space between each phrase after the carriage return, and two spaces between verses, but it ignored the two-space returns and put one space between everything.

As my honey explains it, our laptop is really an etch-a-sketch with an electric blanket control. Add to that the fact that I'm as dumb as a box of hair when it comes to computers...

pleez, sumbuddy hep' me!

PJ


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Subject: Lyr Add: FOR IRELAND I'D NOT TELL HER NAME^^
From: John in Brisbane
Date: 31 May 00 - 01:14 AM

These lyrics were written by the very talented Keryn Archer from Maryborough in Victoria at the request of long time friend Peter Moloney.

FOR IRELAND I'D NOT TELL HER NAME

Well, she came on the breath of a prayer
And her feet moved with grace light as air.
She smiled as she shared joy's delight,
And the sun shone the sky full of light.

CH: There was light, there was truth, there was grace.
There was heat, there was blood on her face.
Oh, my heart was on fire, was aflame
And for Ireland, I'd not tell her name.

She spoke to me words soft as dew.
I was one of the many, the few.
So I rose took her hand, followed on.
I was lost in the dance, I was gone.

She told me the stories of old.
Some of youth, some of light, some foretold.
Some of sorrow, dark pain and dire ill.
All are bound to the wheel of fate still.

Now I sit by the fire, warm my hands.
With the magic long gone from these lands.
But her spirit still moves in my mind.
Ah my love is so cruel and so kind.

^^ Regards, John


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Subject: RE: For Ireland I'd Not Tell Her Name
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 31 May 00 - 11:36 PM

You can get the melody for this from "O"Neill's Music of Ireland." In my opinion, this tune is not enhanced by lyrics and it should be left to the harpers.


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Subject: RE: For Ireland I'd Not Tell Her Name
From: Eluned
Date: 01 Jun 00 - 12:53 AM

Where can we find "O'Neill's Music of Ireland", and is this recorded music or a written source?


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Subject: RE: For Ireland I'd Not Tell Her Name
From: Roger in Sheffield
Date: 01 Jun 00 - 12:52 PM

it is a book of written music but the tune is available in several other books too.

Roger


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Subject: RE: For Ireland I'd Not Tell Her Name
From: GUEST
Date: 02 Jun 00 - 04:23 AM

You'll find an ornamented version at http://www.ruralnet.net.au/~banksam/freereed.html. It has a MIDI and a .gif of yhe notes. Cheers


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Subject: Lyr Add: FOR IRELAND I'LL NOT TELL HER NAME^^
From: Sorcha
Date: 31 Aug 01 - 05:55 PM

FOR IRELAND I'LL NOT TELL HER NAME

One eve as I happened to stray
By the lands that were bordering mine
A young girl I saw on my way
Who left me to languish and pine,
A slave of the charm and the mien
And the silver-toned voice of the dame,
To meet her I sped over the green,
Yet for Ireland I'd not tell her name.

Would she list to my love laden voice
That pledges but vows to the fair,
Would she make me for ever her choice
Her wealth would increase with my care;
I'd sing her our poet's sweetest lays.
Press close to my wild heart the dame,
Devote to her beauty the bays,
Yet for Ireland I'd not tell her name,

A maiden, young, tender refined,
By the lands that are bordering mine,
Hath graces and virtue of mind
And features surpassingly fine;
Blended amber and yellow compose
The ringleted hair of the dame,
Oh, her cheeks have the bloom of the rose,
Yet for Ireland I'd not tell her name.

John Barry Oge, Ballyheigue, Co. Kerry.
From: here which is:
http://members.tripod.com/~songbook1/Forirela.htm

^^

Is that the correct one?


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Subject: Lyr Add: AR ÉIRINN NÍ NEOSFAINN CÉ HÍ^^
From: Rich(bodhránai gan ciall)
Date: 31 Aug 01 - 06:17 PM

AR ÉIRINN NÍ NEOSFAINN CÉ HÍ

There's a home by the wide Avonmore
That would sweep o'er the broad open sea
And wide rivers where the waves wash ashore
Whilst bulrushes they wave to the breeze
Where the green ivy clings 'round the door
And the birds sweetly sing on each tree
O me Darling, they're tuning their notes
Is ar Éirinn ní neosfainn cé hí

Like a sick man that longs for the dawn
I do long for thae light of her smile
And I pray for my own cailín bán
While I'm waiting for her by the stile
O I'd climb all the hills of the land
And I'd swim all the depths of the sea
To het one kiss of her lily-white hand
Is ar Éirinn ní neosfainn cé hí

I have toiled sore thise years of my life
Through storm, through sunshine and rain
And I would surely venture my life
For to shield her one moment of pain
For she, being my comfort in life
Though my comfort and joy she may be
She's my own, she is my promised wife
Is ar Éirinn ní neosfainn cé hí

O but when I will call her my own
And it's married we both then will be
Like the King and Queen on their throne
We'll be living in sweet unity
O it's then I'll have a home of my own
and I'll rear up a nice family
O it's then that her name will be known
But for Ireland I won't tell her name



As recorded by Dervish on the CD "The End of the Day"^^


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Subject: RE: For Ireland I'd Not Tell Her Name
From: GUEST,Philippa
Date: 12 Mar 02 - 08:57 AM

I recently heard that Tomás Ó Canainn says the tune is of Scottish origin.
I couldn't find a verb starting "eos" (or "neos" for that matter) in either O'Donnell or Dineen dictionaries


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Subject: RE: For Ireland I'd Not Tell Her Name
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 12 Mar 02 - 11:45 AM

Well, there's a noticeable resemblance to the Anglo-Scottish tune Tweedside, which appeared as early as 1731 in Joseph Mitchell's ballad opera The Highland Fair, or Union of the Clans, but I don't know what relationship there might be.


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Subject: RE: For Ireland I'd Not Tell Her Name
From: RolyH
Date: 12 Mar 02 - 04:06 PM

An instrumental version is on the "Live" album by Boys of the Lough.On the sleeve notes they discribe a resemblance to the Border song "Tweeside"


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Subject: RE: For Ireland I'd Not Tell Her Name
From: Bonnie Shaljean
Date: 12 Mar 02 - 04:43 PM

Eluned (and everybody) -

Ossian Publications in Cork are issuing (if they haven't already) a compilation of ALL the O'Neill volumes. Info from ossian@iol.ie

O'Neill was a Cork man who emigrated to America (after having travelled widely) in the early 20th century, where he rose in the ranks of the police force and made valuable collections of Irish traditional music which are still used today. Ossian (no, I don't work for them!) also publishes an interesting account of his life which includes a lot of photos, written by Nicholas Carolan who runs the traditional music archive in Dublin.


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Subject: RE: For Ireland I'd Not Tell Her Name
From: masato sakurai
Date: 12 Mar 02 - 06:42 PM

"Tweedsyde" from Balcarres MS (sheet music & midi) is HERE.
~Masato


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Subject: RE: For Ireland I'd Not Tell Her Name
From: GUEST,Annraoi
Date: 12 Mar 02 - 08:55 PM

a Philippa, a thaisce,
Is ró-fhada ó bhí muid ag caint le chéile !
The forms "neos" etc. are as a result of metathisis, a well known and universal feature of language where sounds "swap places" with each other. You'll be familiar with the forms "ní abóraidh mé" instead of the "regular" "ní abróidh mé" and "ciofalán" instead of "comhthionól".
You might well find these mentioned in Dinneen's dictionary where Ó Dónaill left them out.
Annraoi


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Subject: RE: For Ireland I'd Not Tell Her Name
From: GUEST,Martin Ryan
Date: 13 Mar 02 - 10:58 AM

Annraoi

Metathesis of what? Is it related to future/conditional of "innis"?

Regards


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Subject: RE: For Ireland I'd Not Tell Her Name
From: GUEST,Declan
Date: 13 Mar 02 - 11:21 AM

I've started singing the version of this song in English which was posted by Maelgwyn above. I learned this from the singing of Cathy Jordan of Dervish, who says she learned this version from a great old singer and character called Con Greaney from Co Limerick who sadly passed away a couple of years back.

I particularly wanted to sing the song in memory of a good friend of mine called Mick Nelson, originally from Roscommon, but resident for many years in Dublin who played this beautifully as a slow air on the fiddle and on the whistle. Mick unfortunately died last September.


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Subject: RE: For Ireland I'd Not Tell Her Name
From: MartinRyan
Date: 13 Mar 02 - 04:48 PM

It's in Dineen alright. He has 'neosfad for "I will tell", citing it as often used for "inneosfad" - whcih makes it ? rather than metathesis.

Regards


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Subject: RE: For Ireland I'd Not Tell Her Name
From: GUEST,Annraoi
Date: 13 Mar 02 - 05:09 PM

Sorry, Martin,for not giving the basic verb form above
It's still an example of metathysis.
The Future form "innseoidh" becomes "inneosaidh". the dropping of the initial "i" is a different phenomenon altogether.
As I have already said, the Dependant Future form of the verb "abair" changes from "abróidh" to "abóraidh" by the same process.
I'm sure there are other examples, but it's too late at night and I have other work still to do.
Slán go fóill,
Annraoi


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Subject: RE: For Ireland I'd Not Tell Her Name
From: MartinRyan
Date: 13 Mar 02 - 05:36 PM

Go raibh maith agat! Tuigim, anois.

Slán


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Subject: RE: For Ireland I'd Not Tell Her Name
From: rich-joy
Date: 15 Mar 02 - 05:36 AM

The Settlers (Irish/Scots duo from Western Australia) recorded a lovely instrumental version of this, last century - don't know if they ever sang it however (they both have beautiful voices - Sean Roche and Alan Ferguson)
Cheers! R-J
Messages below are from a new thread.


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Subject: For Ireland I'd not tell her name
From: dulcimer
Date: 22 Jun 02 - 07:37 AM

Not sure if I have the name right. Does this song go by another name in the DT or some other source?


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: For Ireland I'd not tell her name
From: masato sakurai
Date: 22 Jun 02 - 07:51 AM

See ABOVE.

~Masato


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Subject: RE: For Ireland I'd Not Tell Her Name
From: dulcimer
Date: 22 Jun 02 - 04:45 PM

Thanks for pointing me in the right direction. The Forum Search didn't reveal the previous thread.


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Subject: RE: For Ireland I'd Not Tell Her Name
From: GUEST,Philippa
Date: 09 Nov 02 - 05:55 PM

"Ar Éirinn ní 'neosainn cé hí!" is one of the lyrics published in Tomás Ó Conceanáinn. "Nua-dhuanaire III" (Dublin, 1981). The source given is E. Walsh, "Irish Popular Songs" (Dublin, 1847) and Ó Conceanáinn quotes a report from "Duanaire Gaedhilge I" (Dublin,circa 1921):"Walsh says the name of the author is unknown, but he was likely a native of Kerry, as the song was very popular there, Tradition attributes it to a young man who fell in love with his brother's affianced bride. Dr. Joyce quotes O'Curry's authority for the statement that the song was written about 1810 by Finneen, or Florence, Scannell, a Kerry schoolmaster."


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Subject: RE: For Ireland I'd Not Tell Her Name
From: GUEST,Sheeaun@aol.com
Date: 09 Nov 02 - 06:05 PM

You can hear the song sung in the Irish language by Liam Clancy on the live "Makem and Clancy Concert" album.


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Subject: RE: For Ireland I'd Not Tell Her Name
From: The Pooka
Date: 09 Nov 02 - 06:47 PM

Sheeaun, it was Liam's rendition of that song on that album which finally brought my Welsh-descended wife around to admitting that the Irish in general, and the Clancys in particular, are OK after all. :) / On my computer monitor at work the scrolling screensaver is "Ar Éirinn ní 'neosainn cé hí" in white letters against a green background. This puzzles people, which delights me.


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Subject: RE: For Ireland I'd Not Tell Her Name
From: GUEST,Philippa
Date: 09 Dec 02 - 07:31 AM

"One of the best known seán-nós songs of the present time, 'Ar Éirinn Ní Neosfainn cé hí' is a development of an 18th century Lowland Scots song entitled 'The Banks of the Tweed'"
Mícheál Ó Suilleabháin, "Irish Music Defined". The Crane Bag, vol.5, no.2, 1981.


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Subject: RE: Tune Req: For Ireland I'd Not Tell Her Name
From: GUEST,Iona
Date: 04 Feb 12 - 02:05 AM

I'd like to play Liam Clancy's version on the violin for my recital this year. Has anybody got piano sheet music to it for my accompaniment? I play it by ear, but I have no idea what the pianist could do...


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Subject: RE: Tune Req: For Ireland I'd Not Tell Her Name
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 04 Feb 12 - 06:02 AM

I put this up on another thread, but interesting enough to bear repeating.
It is Tom Munnelly's note to Clare singer, the late Tom Lenihan's singing of the song 'Ar Eirinn Ni Neosfainn Ce hI' which was included on the two cassette, 150pp set, 'Mount Callan Garland' published by Comhairle Bhealoideas Eireann in 1994 (still copies available - well worth looking out for)
Jim Carroll

Cassette 1, Side B, Track 3. IFC TM 81/B/2. August 19th 1972. Tom did not recollect a specific source, although he recalled that it had been in the family a long time.
Known in Scotland as 'Tweedside', this beautiful air is said to have been written by David Rizzio (or Riccio), musician and secretary to Mary Queen of Scots. His affection for the Queen was manifest and the amount of time he spent in her private chamber the source of much speculation. On March 9th 1566 the unfortunate Italian was dragged from the pregnant Queen's side and butchered before her eyes by a number of armed lords who delivered him no less than fifty dagger-strokes.
In its Irish form this song, (trans. 'For Ireland I will not tell whom she is'), is classified as a reverdie by O Tuama. The classification refers to the greenwood setting in which the poet encounters the beautiful maiden much as in an aisling. However, if they are vision-poems, O Tuama reminds us that they are 'aisling na sul n-oscailte go minic . And indeed some versions of the song carried intimations of carnality which at least implied that the interpretations of the singers at any rate were down-to-earth, no matter how high-flown the poetry. When Conny Cochlan of Derrynasaggart, Baile Bhuirne, sang his version for A.M. Freeman in 1914 he told the collector that it was a dialogue between a married man and his brother, a priest, in which the former lets the priest know that he is aware of his passion for his wife!64 The Clare Gaelic scholar Eugene O' Curry stated that this song was written originally about 1810 by a Finneen, or Florence, Scannell, a Kerry schoolmaster.
The song in English which Tom sings has been about for a good many years likewise, as is witnessed by the similar version which Freeman noted down in London in 1915. Interestingly enough in our context, his informant was a Frank Brewe from Ruan in West Clare.


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Subject: RE: Tune Req: For Ireland I'd Not Tell Her Name
From: Mr Happy
Date: 04 Feb 12 - 06:45 AM

Iona,

dots music here:

http://trillian.mit.edu/~jc/cgi/abc/tuneget?F=GIF&U=/~jc/music/abc/mirror/corneymusers/orig/FORIRLD2.ABC&X=1&T=FORIRELANDIDNOTTE


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Subject: RE: Tune Req: For Ireland I'd Not Tell Her Name
From: GUEST,999
Date: 04 Feb 12 - 07:08 AM

http://martindardis.com/ar_eirinn_ni_neosfainn_ce_he_chords_lyrics.html

That page will I hope add to what Mr Happy posted.


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Subject: RE: Tune Req: For Ireland I'd Not Tell Her Name
From: GUEST,Iona
Date: 13 Feb 12 - 02:42 AM

I wonder how I could get the tune into chords for a piano so it'll sound more 'full'? Any suggestions?


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Subject: RE: Tune Req: For Ireland I'd Not Tell Her Name
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 13 Feb 12 - 01:29 PM

A pianist who has learned to improvise should be able to produce a nice acc. using the chords shown on the version that 999 linked to just above. A guitarist should be able to as well.

It's called 'faking.' There are books called 'fake books' just for that purpose.


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Subject: RE: Tune Req: For Ireland I'd Not Tell Her Name
From: GUEST,Iona
Date: 14 Feb 12 - 12:53 AM

Hmmm, I'll see if I can coerce my teacher to 'fake'. :D Thanks, leenia!


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Subject: RE: Tune Req: For Ireland I'd Not Tell Her Name
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 14 Feb 12 - 10:10 AM

You're welcome. I hope it works out for you.


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