BS: Child moving home

Subject: BS: Child moving home
From: TRUBRIT
Date: 24 Nov 07 - 02:18 PM

My middle child is moving back home today -- accompanied by one very large (18lb) cat who needs to fit in with the 4 we have; several snakes, two bearded dragons and several geckos. She is moving into the guest bedroom and the menagerie are moving into one of the spare rooms (thank God for a big house even if the oil bills are killers.......). M-in-law coming for the holiday -- said child will camp out with the menagerie so elderly lady can have appropriate accommodation. Son in an uproar --he has to give up one of his three (yes, that is three ...) rooms but has been told that having two rooms for his own exclusive use ain't so bad......oldest girl, safely ensconced in her own house (as long as they keep paying the bills) watching from a distance with amusement.

I love them all but sometimes the temptation to dump this huge house, slash our expenses by 2/3, and let them all lfend for themselves is quite tempting.

The good news is the one who is moving home is happy to be doing so - not resentful - although a bit sad - this move represents the end of three year relationship for her. We told her we will treat her like a grownup -- she said we always did which I took to be a compliment....

Oh well, the rent they both pay will cover the oil bill, and the electric, and take a tiny bite out of the property taxes -- life isn't so bad??!

Subject: RE: BS: Child moving home
From: Alice
Date: 24 Nov 07 - 02:36 PM

Fine to have the child home! (I'd not be comfy with the reptiles, though)

Subject: RE: BS: Child moving home
From: Leadbelly
Date: 24 Nov 07 - 02:41 PM

Isn't it great, to have her back? Generally, childrens won't come back.
Hope, that your cats will accept the new one and vice versa. This could be most difficult. I know what I'm talking about.

All the best, Manfred from Germany

Subject: RE: BS: Child moving home
From: Maryrrf
Date: 24 Nov 07 - 02:52 PM

Ah well, just be glad that you do have the space and means to take her in. There will be some adjustments - but enjoy your daughter!

Subject: RE: BS: Child moving home
From: TRUBRIT
Date: 24 Nov 07 - 02:57 PM

Actualaly I think it quite an achievement on our part that she wants to move home ----- I am happy AND SO HAPPY TO have the means and room to take her. The alternative is not to be considered.....

I've learned over the years to get used to the reptiles.....I can even hold the snakes and touch the other creepy crawlies now......; the two pet rats she had when she was about 13 did just about do me in.......I mean ....ugh - RATS -- Room 101 and all that......!

Subject: RE: BS: Child moving home
From: Leadbelly
Date: 24 Nov 07 - 03:09 PM

Cats and rats: present a deck of cards to them for tonight to make friends to each other, hahaha,

Manfred

Subject: RE: BS: Child moving home
From: open mike
Date: 24 Nov 07 - 03:11 PM

well if you have both rats and snakes,
soon you will only have one species.

best of luck...and hope you all found something to be
thankful for this season!

We had a cat that was attacked and seriously injured
by a dog...other species do have their problems in
co-existance!

Subject: RE: BS: Child moving home
From: katlaughing
Date: 24 Nov 07 - 03:14 PM

I am glad to see they are paying rent to you. It can get very sticky if that isn't clearly defined and not just with parents and kids, but with any relatives/friends.

Sounds like a great menagerie. My sis gave me a welcome plaque with all kinds of critters on it. It says "Welcome to the zoo!" That was when we have eight cats, two dogs, several fish and about 5 birds. I draw the line on snakes and rodents though, ever since a Siamese female figured out how to open a hamster cage and let them out to *play* with her!

Best way to intro a new cat is keep it in its own room (after you've brought it in, in its own kennel and let them all look at each other and sniff for a while) and let them howl and sniff at each other through/under the door, then gradually leave the door open while you keep watch, all the while talking to them all by name, praising when they make "nice" contact, warning when they get a little "touchy" with each other. Keep a water bottle with sprayer handy or a soda can with a couple of pennies in it. Spray or shake the can if they start to fight.

The other important thing is to have enough litterboxes. Rule of thumb, or should it be "paw?" says one per cat plus one extra.

Good luck and is does sound like FUN!

kat

Subject: RE: BS: Child moving home
From: Leadbelly
Date: 24 Nov 07 - 03:30 PM

Dear Kat,

that's a good and time-consuming advice. But does it really works? We tried this gradually "cooperation" without great success. One dominating cat (mother of gone Buttje) is still chasing our 2 other darlings. Allright, this does't belong to this thread but I would like to make this comment,

Manfred

Subject: RE: BS: Child moving home
From: wysiwyg
Date: 24 Nov 07 - 03:36 PM

One dominating cat (mother of gone Buttje) is still chasing our 2 other darlings.

We've kept all kinds of menageries too, so I will take the liberty of addressing this. IMO Buttje's mama is just being herself within the hierarchy they have agreed to maintain. Cooperation doesn't always look like we human beans expect it to look. If she chases (challenges) and they scuttle (yield), that's their form of cooperation. Non-cooperation would be if she chases and they spray or fight back or otherwise mount a major challenge. And that too would yield eventually to an agreed hierarchy, unless the human beans intervene in such a way as to keep it from settling down.


TRUBRIT, it sounds like you have all the right pieces in place. The challenge is keeping the boundaries that start off so well from becoming blurred boundaries of how it used-to-was.

~Susan

Subject: RE: BS: Child moving home
From: TRUBRIT
Date: 24 Nov 07 - 04:05 PM

We are all ltrying.....as we speak, the new cat is upstairs locked in a room howling with two of ours spitting at her through the door but I see from advice above that we are right on track for doing things correctly!!!

The rats are no more -- they were about 10 years ago......incredibly intelligent, bright creatures -- but RATS when all said and done.

Our rule is if you live at home and are not full time in school you pay rent.......my son, who has no further edcuation, pays $50 a week for rent (how COULD YOU mum???) and $50 towards his hideously inflated car insurance because of a lead foot and some things (not completely his fault) that happened.....he thinks he is being ripped off!!! Our daughter is paying $100 a week because she has a proper job that pays reasonably well -- after shouldering the expenses of her apartment, cable tv and electric entirely on her own (not to mention driving 20 miles each way to work....) she thinks she has died and gone to heaven....

Subject: RE: BS: Child moving home
From: kendall
Date: 24 Nov 07 - 04:08 PM

Humans are the only animals that allow the offspring to return to the nest. Does that mean it's not natural?

He is complaining because he has to give up ONE of his THREE rooms? How many of us had even ONE room to ourselves?
Hell, I never slept alone 'til I was married!

Subject: RE: BS: Child moving home
From: Leadbelly
Date: 24 Nov 07 - 04:12 PM

WYSIWYG: Thanks for your comment. But unfortunately they do fight. Consequentely, our two old ladies only leave their home at night when the other one is inside in a seperate room. She's lovely to human beings, but for longer than half a year a problem as to the other ones.

TRUBRIT, sorry for discussing this kind of relative problems in connection to your thread. Could be another tread. Such kind of problems are not a must. Hope that your cat society after sniffing for a while will say "Hello, who are you?" And lay down for a peaceful sleep.

Manfred

Subject: RE: BS: Child moving home
From: TRUBRIT
Date: 24 Nov 07 - 04:31 PM

Kendall -- I know, I KNOW.......he has had the grace to stop now.....we have a story in our house that has three bedrooms and one bath and used to house three children, now the one (soon to be two)....so he has his lounge, his workout room AND his bedroom!!!! In his defence, I think some of the complaining is because he thinks it is expected of him. I well remember when he was about 9, he complained because he had to share a bathroom with his sisters.......'mum, it;'s full of GIRL stuff - it's disgusting...'. I pointed out that they complained to me that they stood on Lego when they took showers and hurt their feet and he had best stay out of it while he was ahead of the game ..... I lived in a terraced house in the UK for 7 years with NO bathroom -- just a loo down the yard. I suggested he stop right there. And he actually did.

Leadfingers - no apologies necessary....I love the 'chatting' that threads produce!

Subject: RE: BS: Child moving home
From: SINSULL
Date: 24 Nov 07 - 04:49 PM

We had nine people and one bath - a nightmare when the flu hit the entire household.
Hey Deborah - I will rent that top floor and pay you $300/month. Tell Nick that he has competition. Does that include meals?????

Subject: RE: BS: Child moving home
From: TRUBRIT
Date: 24 Nov 07 - 04:54 PM

Absolutely!!!!!!!! -- well - Friday'sthrough Sundays when Tom cooks and the rest of the time it is every man for himself!!!!!! Hang on Sins, when the kids (finally) move out we will be renting space in order to be able to make ends meet!!!!!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Child moving home
From: Deckman
Date: 24 Nov 07 - 05:01 PM

You brought it on yerself ... and you darned well deserve it! When your spawn (children) were younger, you probably fed them regular and even let 'en sleep indoors ... right! By those bad actions, you unknowingly convinced them that they had some value and were worthy of your eforts. Now see what you did! SSSHHHEEEEUUUUHHHH! bob

Subject: RE: BS: Child moving home
From: TRUBRIT
Date: 24 Nov 07 - 05:48 PM

Guilty as charged! WE even refrained from abusing them every other
sunday.....

Subject: RE: BS: Child moving home
From: Sorcha
Date: 24 Nov 07 - 07:02 PM

Our daughter has come home twice after failed live in relationships, and she is only 22! We love having her back partly because we KNOW she is safe now. We don't charge her rent (yea, we probably should) but we've had quite a few 'stray children' stay with us over the years and we've never charged any of them rent.

She does her own laundry, her share of the house chores, helps buy people food and dog food. She is a waitress and is supporting a vehicle and 2 dogs. She has been back nearly a year this time and all seems to be working out well.

Son is a different story. We thought he would NEVER move out, but he finally did at age 24. He is married with one child now, so I doubt he'll ever need to move 'home'.

'Home is where, when you have to go there, they have to take you in.'
Robert Frost (I think)

Subject: RE: BS: Child moving home
From: artbrooks
Date: 24 Nov 07 - 07:25 PM

We moved each time one of the (2) girls went off to college - each time to a place with one fewer bedrooms. It has worked so far...

Subject: RE: BS: Child moving home
From: Rapparee
Date: 24 Nov 07 - 09:17 PM

My mother gave us room and board until we graduated from college (and a short time thereafter). But the idea was that we would move out and start our lives on our own. They are your children, true, but they have to have their own lives and, sometimes, that means that they will fail.

I know, this sounds harsh and cruel and mean. But the world IS harsh and cruel and mean and parents won't always be there to pick up the pieces.

Subject: RE: BS: Child moving home
From: Sorcha
Date: 24 Nov 07 - 09:31 PM

I know, Rap, and truly, our daughter hasn't failed....but has had some hard learning experiences. Each one makes her stronger, and she WILL be able to be on her own someday. She is already contemplating a place with a roommate. It's hard on the 'kids' to come back home after they are 'adults' too. Everything is different.

Subject: RE: BS: Child moving home
From: Rapparee
Date: 24 Nov 07 - 10:42 PM

No, I'm not saying that there has been failure. Just that not everything works out all the time and you have to learn from it and become stronger. Just as you say she is already.

I also know of some people -- my neighbor, for example. An architect with a very nice wife and two kids...and his house is being foreclosed because he bought "toys" instead of making the mortgage payments. We're waiting to see if Daddy can bail him out, but there's nearly USD 160,000 owing on the house (I know this because the Trustees' Sale has been advertised in the paper four times now). Educated, an experienced professional, and he's losing his home. Of course, he'll still have the two pickup trucks, the golf cart, the fifth-wheel trailer, the two jetskis, the two snow machines, the.... He's one that I'm afraid won't learn from this.

Subject: RE: BS: Child moving home
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 24 Nov 07 - 10:56 PM

My daughter is in the learning stage, age 19 and renting a house with 4 other friends as they attend university. Last time I was up it looked like a tornado hit, but she tells me they all took a couple of hours to clean the other day in preparation for the holidays. The family of one of the roommates was coming to dinner on Thursday. My daughter and her boyfriend (one of her roommates in this house, they met last year when they were each in different housing) were down here for Thanksgiving this year. We don't see her nearly as often as last year since she has a job up there now, so it is a treat when she comes home for a day or two. She and her brother get along well, and she has invited him up (he's 15) to a party at their house during the holiday break. (They are about 45 minutes north of us.) He should enjoy that, and she'll enjoy watching him beat (she hopes) her friends at Guitar Hero. I think she wants to show off her little brother. All of these students are all nerdy enough to enjoy the games and accept that a younger kid can beat the pants off of them. :-D

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Child moving home
From: TRUBRIT
Date: 24 Nov 07 - 11:57 PM

Yes -- no failures here -- just lots of learning.......Mim has been gone for three years and this is her first time back.......I think next time will be the right time for her but I am thrilled to have her back...

Subject: RE: BS: Child moving home
From: katlaughing
Date: 25 Nov 07 - 12:50 AM

Our daughter came back when she had our grandson, at our invitation. We agreed she could be with him 24/7, no job, for his first year or two (which we felt was really important) and she would contribute what she could in helping around the house, etc. She tore up wall-to-wall carpet in our living room, revealing wonderful hardwood floors; also tore up old floors in the kitchen and our bedroom and put down new flooring. She did a lot of painting, too. She went back to work on the weekends when he was about one, then full-time when he was almost two. BUT, she was here, with us, when I got so sick and through my surgery, so she earned her living space, etc. every bit as if she'd paid money for it!

As Morgan grew up it became obvious to us all that they needed to move out. We were able to buy a house four doors down which she made all of the payments on and put in some sweat equity, almost two years ago, with the understanding she would buy it from us in a year or two, which she did this past summer.

Subject: RE: BS: Child moving home
From: Leadfingers
Date: 25 Nov 07 - 07:53 AM

When I finished my twelve years in the R A F , I moved back in with Mom and Dad , as a 'temporary' measure ! Paid Mom a LOT less than I really wanted to for keep , and stayed for TEN Years ! I think it would have been a lot harder for ALL of us , if I hadnt gone into the R A F Apprentice scheme and dodged the Teenage Angst years with my parents .

Subject: RE: BS: Child moving home
From: Rapparee
Date: 25 Nov 07 - 12:56 PM

We moved back when we got out of the service, finished college, and then moved out.

I think what I object to are the kids who move back, may or may not have a job, pay little or nothing, and stay with their parents for years and years.

Subject: RE: BS: Child moving home
From: open mike
Date: 25 Nov 07 - 01:17 PM

so "child" is not quite the right word here..."daughter", maybe, but no longer a kid! my oldest off-sprong is nearly 30...and i need to get out
of the habit of calling them children now!

Subject: RE: BS: Child moving home
From: katlaughing
Date: 25 Nov 07 - 01:34 PM

Ah, they'll always be our "kids," Laurel.:-)

Subject: RE: BS: Child moving home
From: TRUBRIT
Date: 25 Nov 07 - 02:20 PM

There are some good stories here. I DO think paying rent is important because they have to do that in the 'real world' -- but I can charge an amount that is reasonable and give her a chance to save. I would hope in two or three years to be able to help her buy a small house, as we helped her sister (handy being a real estate agent -- I kicked in the commission that I never had anyway....). I would much rather she was in a house so she can control the room mates etc --- with her pechant for animals finding an apartment is VERY hard -- and the right room mate even harder......

Subject: RE: BS: Child moving home
From: wysiwyg
Date: 25 Nov 07 - 02:47 PM

On paying rent-- I definitely agree.

We offered a similar option to a non-offspring young adult to help her get on her feet, and we phased in the rent part: The first expectation was that she participate in the work of the household "chores"; when that went fairly well the next expectation was that she attend a job-seekers' training course; at the conclusion of that and with the chores continuing somewhat reliably, the third hurdle was that we would work on her resume. (All this was discussed openly before she took us up on the offer; the parameters were refreshed regularly in "house meetings" once she took us up on it.)

This was the 90-day deal from which we offered that, if she wanted to continue past 90 days as a "roommate," she would share rental expenses as well. (We rent, so it was a sort of informal rent-sharing offer; in fact her room had a lease).


And this is where the rubber meets the road-- where it becomes obvious whether one is housing a moocher, or a dysfunctional person who needs professional help, or someone who just needs a hand to get on their feet (biological relationship or no), because if the tools are there and they aren't being used, clearly the person is beyond our capacity to help.

It turned out that we were pretty good at this kind of young-adult fostering; I would absolutely do it again under the right circumstances. In fact if any Catters had young-adult offspring who needed that, but they couldn't provide it themselves in their present home, I'd definitely consider it.

~Susan

Subject: RE: BS: Child moving home
From: TRUBRIT
Date: 25 Nov 07 - 03:09 PM

She is moving in as we speak -- I have counted endless animal cages coming in .... plus seen various snakes in pillow cases being moved in...........oh well, we will manage no doubt ... the most important thing is our computer guy (my work computer guy) just came by and guaranteed everyone will have internet access in their rooms so my beloved lap top will not be held ransom ........

Subject: RE: BS: Child moving home
From: katlaughing
Date: 25 Nov 07 - 04:32 PM

THAT'S the one thing I was powerless over, TRUEBRIT, having my computer all to myself. It was in the kitchen because we had no room elsewhere. When I said, "No! Don't let the baby play on it, etc." I was shouted down. I shared it with our daughter, grandson and my Rog and it really drove me nuts. It was what was doable at the time, but we could have gone about it a bit differently, i.e. "grandma's work hours" on it come first! As soon as possible she "paid rent" by buying me a new computer with an income tax return and putting my old one in her room, which helped. In the end I didn't mind so much because there were many times my grandson as a baby would go to sleep on my knee, nestled up against my chest while he and I surfed the "net" and listened to wonderful folk music that we found here, at the Mudcat, and elsewhere. I know he just soaked it up and it was good stuff. now, I don't have to share with anyone!*bg*

Subject: RE: BS: Child moving home
From: TRUBRIT
Date: 25 Nov 07 - 09:56 PM

i would figth and die for my laptop...!!!!!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Child moving home
From: TRUBRIT
Date: 03 Dec 07 - 10:48 PM

Jacqui C asked if she could come over and see the menagerie -- I told her she was welcome -- most folks shun us with all these creepy crawlies around. I wish I had had a camera handy to take a picture of Jackie wrapped in two beautiful snakes -- saying, you;'ll have to frisk me when I leave or I am smuggling out a snake! Then she cood over the bearded dragons and oooh'ed and aah'ed over the geckos -- my daughter didn't risk taking the 'skink' (sp?) who bites out of his cage.......

And the 18 lbs cat was n there too -- wondering around.......thn watching her favorite TV channel (as my daughter calls it) -- snake channel........my world is feeling a bit crazy right now......

Subject: RE: BS: Child moving home
From: Sorcha
Date: 03 Dec 07 - 10:54 PM

LOL.....sounds like a home, Tru, not just a house. I'd probably coo over the snakes too. They are pretty neat critters. I draw the line at pet slugs or worms tho.

Subject: RE: BS: Child moving home
From: TRUBRIT
Date: 04 Dec 07 - 09:25 PM

It is indeed a home -- a messy untidy one but a home nonetheless

Subject: RE: BS: Child moving home
From: Rapparee
Date: 05 Dec 07 - 08:48 AM

Some guy got into an argument in a bar in Idaho Falls about a year ago, went home, and came back with his pet rattlesnake. He proceeded to sic the snake on the guys he'd been arguing with. No one was hurt (the snake didn't want to cooperate) but the guy was arrested for assault with a deadly weapon.

Subject: RE: BS: Child moving home
From: TRUBRIT
Date: 05 Dec 07 - 09:46 PM

Sounds fair enough to me.....!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Child moving home
From: katlaughing
Date: 05 Dec 07 - 10:26 PM

And my kids accuse me of having BIG cats! I don't know if I've ever had an 18 pounder. Glad to hear things are seemingly going well.:-)

Subject: RE: BS: Child moving home
From: TRUBRIT
Date: 05 Dec 07 - 11:45 PM

very well -- she bought a 'date' home tonight (date s in quotes because I don't think young people date much -- he is a reptile maniac too.....) --katlaughing -- as Ilive and breath -- 18lbs -- and that is with only 1.5 ears -- half went to frostbite.....

Subject: RE: BS: Child moving home
From: Barry Finn
Date: 06 Dec 07 - 12:38 PM

She's dating an 18 pounder with 1 1/2 ears? What half of him went to frostbite? This is turning into quite a tail. Maybe she should go a little farther afield, Portland may not have as many well cared for men as needed. Is there a local petting zoo near by?
Deb, I would've thought that you had alrealy had the talk with her?

Good luck with all the new animals that she brings home.

Raising kids is never a fair deal, you have to sometimes watch all your hard work & lessons get laid by the roadside when the 1st primate comes knuckling along. But an 18 pound frostbitten,,,,,,

I thought I tought my youngest to walk & then run but I just keep watching him fall down & now he's chasing skirts, I can hardly wait for the crash. Can't wait till he's caught by a couger.

Enjoy her while she's home again, of course I know you are.

Barry

Subject: RE: BS: Child moving home
From: katlaughing
Date: 06 Dec 07 - 01:39 PM

LOL, Barry!

And, for all that, she bought him at home, apparently!

Sounds great, Deb, really. Would love to see a picture of that cat, though! I think our old Hawkeye topped out at 15/16. I'll see if I can find an old picture and scan it in. We could have a "Fat Cat" contest!**bg**

Subject: RE: BS: Child moving home
From: MMario
Date: 06 Dec 07 - 01:59 PM

we've got two 18 to 20 lb-er's that everyone used to think were big cats - until the 28 lb tuxedo panther moved in a few years ago. Now the "mountain lions" (as people used to call them) look practically dainty.

Subject: RE: BS: Child moving home
From: Becca72
Date: 06 Dec 07 - 02:05 PM

My ex has a Siberian/Maine Coon mix who tops out at around 20lbs. Scary part is, he's just 2 years old.

Subject: RE: BS: Child moving home
From: katlaughing
Date: 06 Dec 07 - 03:12 PM

PICTURES, people! We want pictures!!:-) I'll put them up at myopera if you'd like, just as I did for Bee.

Subject: RE: BS: Child moving home
From: TRUBRIT
Date: 06 Dec 07 - 03:23 PM

Well Kat -- if we do have a F's 28at Cat contest I think MMario's 28lber will win hands down......! I don't the weight specifics but I had a client once whose cat was so enormous that its name was just -- FAT CAT.   I will see if I can get a picture organized -- I'm not very technical about downloading or would have taken a pic of Jacqui draped in snakes when she met the menagerie the other day.

LOL too Barry -- not dating but had a date with - not, as you well know - the 18lb 1.5 eared cat but instead a rather nice young man who evidently has a job, a house, and doesn't smoke......whoooppee!!!!!!! And he wanted to meet all her reptiles so - since she is living at home - got to meet us too! He seemed very tolerant all things considered.....especailly as we were watching the PBS Summer of Love about San Francisco back in 60 - something or other and I was wallowing in nostalgia......1

Subject: RE: BS: Child moving home
From: TRUBRIT
Date: 06 Dec 07 - 10:04 PM

Hey all!

This is Mim, TRUBRITs daughter! Mom showed me the thread today and i was reading through...it was fun to see all the stories about people moving home and the giant 28lb cat!!!!!

Tiger Tom (my 18.6lb kitty) is doing quite well...he is basically just ignoring the other cats...and hiding from the dog! Thankfully we have a big enough house that all the animals can stay out of each others way!!!!

I am going to be sending mom a pic of Tiger Tom so she can show you all (but someone is going to have to walk her through the process of posting a photo)!!

Mim

Subject: RE: BS: Child moving home
From: katlaughing
Date: 06 Dec 07 - 10:19 PM

HeyaMim! Welcome to the Mudcat!!

She will have to email a photo to [e-mail] and he will take care of the posting or forward it on to BillD or me to do so.

Subject: RE: BS: Child moving home
From: ranger1
Date: 06 Dec 07 - 10:23 PM

Or I can just show her how to post it onto flickr and then do a blue clickie for her when I get home.

Subject: RE: BS: Child moving home
From: TRUBRIT
Date: 08 Dec 07 - 12:33 AM

OOH choices choices --- Tami - easiest might be to have you show me how.......

Subject: RE: BS: Child moving home
From: katlaughing
Date: 08 Dec 07 - 06:04 AM

Okay, wimmin, sounds good!