BS: If you had to vote today...

Subject: RE: BS: If you had to vote today...
From: Riginslinger
Date: 20 Sep 08 - 12:45 PM

"So we'll have to convince the grocer, barber, and Sunday school teacher in order to get the other voter's support."



                   Well, you shouldn't have any trouble with the Sunday school teachers. They'll believe anything.

Subject: RE: BS: If you had to vote today...
From: Stringsinger
Date: 20 Sep 08 - 12:09 PM

Stalin, Pol Pot and Mao. Ok, that's three out of how many thousands?

These guys were political agents, not free-thinkers. There is a decided difference.

Subject: RE: BS: If you had to vote today...
From: Donuel
Date: 20 Sep 08 - 12:00 PM

The phase we are in today is the fight to make the blame stick to regulator supports/democrats/middle class.

Yes I have heard the Wall Street Journal pundits blaming the middle class.

they say "I don't worry about the credit crunch or the adjustment loan gurantees or the bank consolidations, I WORRY ABOUT THE REACTIONS OF A PANICY MIDDLE CLASS.

Yep its our fault... again! who knew.

Subject: RE: BS: If you had to vote today...
From: Ron Davies
Date: 20 Sep 08 - 11:57 AM

The problem is the "big lie" works. Per WSJ 19 Sept 2008, according to the latest NYT/CBS News survey, 49% of those polled believe that Obama will raise THEIR taxes. When for over 90% of the electorate the opposite is true.

The McCain campaign, and internet "information" like the e-mail Ebbie cited are constantly reinforcing this canard.

And more and more, it seems, people are saying: " I don't trust anything I see on TV or read---the media always has its own ax to grind-----but I trust what my grocer and my barber and my Sunday school teacher tell me. And they all tell me Obama is a closet Moslem who will raise my taxes--so it must be true."

That's what an "informed electorate" has come to, it seems.

So we'll have to convince the grocer, barber, and Sunday school teacher in order to get the other voter's support.

There's got to be a better way.

The only possible approach which might work seems to be to point out--over and over--that the GWB Republican regime has steered the US to ruin--and therefore it would be crazy to entrust the henhouse to yet another fox.

Subject: RE: BS: If you had to vote today...
From: Donuel
Date: 20 Sep 08 - 11:54 AM

Obama people just worry about themselves while real Ameicans put their Country first!

---


There is enough worry out their to open people's eyes exactly what their "country" did to them.

Subject: RE: BS: If you had to vote today...
From: Donuel
Date: 20 Sep 08 - 11:43 AM

jeepers creepers yur questionin and critizizin is a big ol wasta time. Doncha know that our lord Jesus tells me his will, and if that means trhowing the Wall Street bums out and havin ta start over with hard work and family values then by God that is what I'm going to do.

In case you didn;t know it was Obama that gamed Wall street for everything it was worth and ran it into the ground. It was Obama who turned his back on faith and just wants to be bailed out.

John McCain has been a Maverick and has fought tooth and nail against Obama and all those Wall Street crooks for the last 20 years.

And dick, you can;t tell me nothin different because you don't know the truth, and you have not been washed in the blood of Jesus. So you go ahead and vote for that Barack Hussein Obama who is opposite of everything American in values, color and faith, and you will burn in hell.

Subject: RE: BS: If you had to vote today...
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 20 Sep 08 - 11:33 AM

For those that don't remember, the horrible tax increase Obama proposes for those earning more than a quarter-million per year would bring their tax rates back to 1990 levels. An remember how that destroyed the economy!

Subject: RE: BS: If you had to vote today...
From: Pseudolus
Date: 19 Sep 08 - 11:49 AM

So Biden says yesterday that it is patriotic for the people in this country who make over $250,000 a year to pay more taxes. He says that they should step up to the plate and take on the burden based on how moch they make. McCain turns around later in the day and says that Biden said that it is patriotic to raise taxes. Talk about a reach...or maybe he just didn't understand. He reminds me of the Gilda Radnor Character on Saturday Night Live, "Emily Litella". Anyone remember this exchange on SNL?

Chevy Chase: Weekend Update recognizes its obligation to present the responsible opposing viewpoint to our Editorials. Here with an Editorial Reply is Miss. Emily Litella.

Emily: Whats all this fuss I keep hearing about violins on television? Now why dont parents want their children to see violins on television? Why, I thought the Leonard Burnstein concerts were just lovely. Now, if they only show the violins after 11:00 at night, the little babies will all be asleep. And they wont learn any music appreciation. Why, they'll end up wanting to play guitar, and bongo drums. And go to Africa and join these rock and roll outfits. And they wont drink milk! (Slams fist pn desk.) I say there should be more violins on television! (Chevy taps her on the shoulder.) and less game shows! Its terrible! the way they...what, what?!

Chevy: Miss. Litella, that was violence on television. Not violins. Violence.

Emily: Oh, well thats different.

Chevy: Yes.

Emily smiling: Nevermind

Subject: RE: BS: If you had to vote today...
From: Riginslinger
Date: 18 Sep 08 - 09:54 PM

"And if you don't support Obama, John and Sarah are what you will get--voting for anybody other than Obama is voting for McCain--not that I expect your brain to be able to absorb that fact--completely fried as it is with the terrible nightmares of the Mexican invasion, "faith-based" inquisitors pounding on your door, and (who knows what) other absurdities you cherish."



                        Ron - Is that nice?

Subject: RE: BS: If you had to vote today...
From: Ron Davies
Date: 18 Sep 08 - 09:31 PM

They've also convinced a bunch of women, it seems, that aw-shucks Sarah is just a middle class gal like them--not a woman with over $200,000 annual income and people lining up to do her favors. And it's fine that Sarah wants to overturn Roe v Wade, and can hardly wait for the Rapture--just let me at that nuclear button. Left Behind? Not me. Hope the rest of you are ready.

And on top of that, the most important question for them is not the financial system crash-and-burn, the disastrous health care system, the needless wars coming under McCain-Palin---but ---who would you like to have a beer with?

Sarah and John would be great beer buddies for the same crowd that elected GWB in 2000--preferring the frat boy to the candidate who liked to think--thinking being too intimidating. And now, it seems, there are some women who want to join their table.

And we have people, including some of our sterling citizen Mudcatters, willing to swallow the canard--in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary in the many plans Obama puts out, and testimony from people like Senator Lugar----that he is an "empty suit".

Not only that, they delight in spreading this casual slander.   

Do they believe it? Or do they have other motives for spreading it?

Subject: RE: BS: If you had to vote today...
From: katlaughing
Date: 18 Sep 08 - 02:30 PM

Brilliant summation, Frank!

Subject: RE: BS: If you had to vote today...
From: Pseudolus
Date: 18 Sep 08 - 02:19 PM

I'll tell you what, if the republicans win this election I will have to say that whoever is running this campaign is an absolute genius! They pick a running mate that no one knows and they have the Dems totally focused on her. The ads for McCain talk about how they BOTH fought the republicans and "reformed"! I thought they WERE the republicans!!!!!! they have the country so screwed up that they are looking like the answer to the republican problems of the last eight years.   It's like, "Oh yeah, the republicans really screwed things up for the last eight years and as a republican, I can't wait until we can change Washington by sending a couple republicans to office to fix the problems caused by those damn republicans. Hey, who better to fix the problems? We caused em!"

They have improved their numbers in the polls by selecting a woman for a running mate that was a governor for less than two years and have based this improvement on her experience!!!! Unbelievable!!! Look, I don't think Obama/Biden is necessarily the dream ticket of all time but McCain is not gonna get us out of Iraq, the tax breaks will continue to go to the richest people in America and if he dies in office this country will be run by someone who was governer for less than two years!!! why am I the only one who that scares the S#$@ out of???????

Oh, to answer the question....Obama....

Frank

Subject: RE: BS: If you had to vote today...
From: Donuel
Date: 17 Sep 08 - 11:58 PM

Peace I swear to God I will try the Purina conversation the next time the opportunity presents itself.



btw I can walk again!
My nearly severed achilles tendon is only presenting me with an unavoidable limp but it was a pleasure just to mow the lawn albeit    s l o w l y

Subject: RE: BS: If you had to vote today...
From: Ron Davies
Date: 17 Sep 08 - 09:55 PM

"...stamp out the scourge of religion". So you plan to support McCain, who has declared that the US was founded as a Judeo-Christian nation--and will appoint Supreme Court justices who reflect that belief. And of course, dear Sarah--who can hardly wait for the Rapture--and if McCain leaves the scene prematurely, will have the opportunity to speed up the timetable.

As I noted on another thread--you really should start reading--and thinking--if it's not too much of a strain.

And if you don't support Obama, John and Sarah are what you will get--voting for anybody other than Obama is voting for McCain--not that I expect your brain to be able to absorb that fact--completely fried as it is with the terrible nightmares of the Mexican invasion, "faith-based" inquisitors pounding on your door, and (who knows what) other absurdities you cherish.

Subject: RE: BS: If you had to vote today...
From: Teribus
Date: 16 Sep 08 - 10:26 AM

100 Up

Subject: RE: BS: If you had to vote today...
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 15 Sep 08 - 11:31 PM

One suggested political button

(sent by my daughter)

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: If you had to vote today...
From: Peace
Date: 15 Sep 08 - 08:33 PM

I will check the link on my break. Using a laptop now and it is s



l          o            w


That is great news to hear.

Subject: RE: BS: If you had to vote today...
From: katlaughing
Date: 15 Sep 08 - 07:58 PM

If you will follow my link and watch today's speech, I think you will hear him take the gloves off, a bit. I understand he will be doing more of the same. On the other hand, I saw some news blogger today who said Obama did a Tanya Harding on McCain and kneecapped him.??? Whatever he does someone is going to claim it's wrong. I was impressed before. I am even more impressed after seeing him in person. A turnout of over 6000 people in this are is HUGE and very significant. I think Colorado will go for Obama.

Subject: RE: BS: If you had to vote today...
From: Peace
Date: 15 Sep 08 - 07:47 PM

That's where I was heading, Kat, but I noticed this thread was gettin' pretty heavy.

This is a crucial election for the US, imo. The country cannot withstand four more Republican years. I wish Obama would take the gloves off and get into the fray. I'm not particularly enamored of the Democrats, given their coziness with GWB over that past six or seven years, bot of the two major parties, I truly hope for the sake of what's left of democracy in the USA that the Democrats win this one.

Subject: RE: BS: If you had to vote today...
From: katlaughing
Date: 15 Sep 08 - 07:11 PM

You ought to post that to the jokes thread, too!LOL!

Subject: RE: BS: If you had to vote today...
From: Riginslinger
Date: 15 Sep 08 - 07:08 PM

LOL - Great lyrics for a song, too.

Subject: RE: BS: If you had to vote today...
From: Peace
Date: 15 Sep 08 - 06:52 PM

'"Neither McCain nor Obama `have the slightest idea of what to do about the Russians,'"'

Neither do the Russians.

*****************************************************

If I had to vote today it would be for my friend in Montreal who sent me the following:

Yesterday I was at my local Wal-Mart buying a large bag of Purina dog chow for my loyal pet, Biscuit, and was in the checkout line when the woman behind me asked if I had a dog.

What did she think I had, an elephant? So since I'm retired and have little to do, on impulse I told her that no, I didn't have a dog, I was starting the Purina Diet again. I added that I probably shouldn't, because I ended up in the hospital last time, but that I'd lost 50 pounds before I awakened in an intensive care ward with tubes coming out of most of my orifices and IVs in both arms.

I told her that it was essentially a perfect diet and that the way that it works is to load your pants pockets with Purina nuggets and simply eat one or two every time you feel hungry. The food is nutritionally complete so it works well and I was going to try it again. (I have to mention here that practically everyone in line was now enthralled with my story.)

Horrified, she asked if I ended up in intensive care because the dog food poisoned me. I told her no, I stepped off a curb to sniff an Irish Setter's ass and a car hit us both.

I thought the guy behind her was going to have a heart attack he was laughing so hard. Wal-Mart won't let me shop there anymore.

Better watch what you ask retired people. They have all the time in the world to think of crazy things to say."

Subject: RE: BS: If you had to vote today...
From: katlaughing
Date: 15 Sep 08 - 06:43 PM

From today's speech by Obama, right here in my backyard, so to speak:

"Change isn't about slogans, it's about substance, and if Senator McCain now wants to talk about who can bring change to Washington, that's a debate I'm happy to have," he said. "It's great he now wants to talk about putting corporate lobbyists in their place, But he needs to explain why he put seven of them in charge of his campaign – lobbyists for the insurance industry, and the oil industry, and for Freddie Mac, and for foreign governments. And if you think those lobbyists are working day and night for John McCain just to put themselves out of business, well I've got a bridge to sell you up in Alaska."

Amos, there is raw footage, 37 minutes of it, at my Rog's tv station's website:click here. (Over on the right.)

Subject: RE: BS: If you had to vote today...
From: GUEST,number 6
Date: 15 Sep 08 - 06:32 PM

"bILL what do you talk about then. Fear and envy?"

... auto insurance, commodities, weather, where one can get a cheap tux ....


biLL :)

Subject: RE: BS: If you had to vote today...
From: Little Hawk
Date: 15 Sep 08 - 04:14 PM

Excellent point, Rig!

Subject: RE: BS: If you had to vote today...
From: Riginslinger
Date: 15 Sep 08 - 04:10 PM

"Neither McCain nor Obama `have the slightest idea of what to do about the Russians,'"



                      Why would they do anything about the Russians? The American president should be taking care of his/her own country's problems.

Subject: RE: BS: If you had to vote today...
From: Amos
Date: 15 Sep 08 - 03:36 PM

Veru good news, Kat. Surprising it wasn't more deeply covered in the MSM.


A

Subject: RE: BS: If you had to vote today...
From: Little Hawk
Date: 15 Sep 08 - 03:32 PM

That's true, Donuel. But if you mix militant atheism with politics...as Stalin, Mao, and Pol Pot did...you also get 200% politics.

So where does that leave us?

Subject: RE: BS: If you had to vote today...
From: Donuel
Date: 15 Sep 08 - 03:12 PM

bILL what do you talk about then. Fear and envy?

Religions and soup kitchens/pantries and breakfast programs
are a great mix.

Whenever you mix Religion with politics you get 200% politics.

Subject: RE: BS: If you had to vote today...
From: katlaughing
Date: 15 Sep 08 - 03:07 PM

Today politics united thousands of folks in my part of Colorado. They lined up from sunrise to get a spot to see and hear Obama speak at noon. They stood, some of them, for 5-6 hours, many more for 3-4 hours, to be sure they got a chance to see the next President of the United States. I was there, I was fortunate to have a chair and I was so proud to see so many people, so many people passionate and excited about politics, some of them for the first time, some of them for the umpteenth time. I'll be writing more about it in my blog, later today. It was wonderful!!!

Subject: RE: BS: If you had to vote today...
From: Little Hawk
Date: 15 Sep 08 - 01:28 PM

That's because they (politics and religion) are the Great Dividers of humanity. And you know why they are? Because they both tend to assert that there's only one right way..."our way"...and that everyone else is wrong.

That is the basic error in their thinking. There isn't only one right way, there are many right ways for different people who have different needs and who live in different ways.

Subject: RE: BS: If you had to vote today...
From: GUEST,number 6
Date: 15 Sep 08 - 01:05 PM

Religion and Politics must never be discussed in Lodge.

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: If you had to vote today...
From: Little Hawk
Date: 15 Sep 08 - 12:51 PM

kendall - You said that "Man's greatest enemy is fear. Organized religion fosters fear. It's what keeps the masses in line. Do away with fear, and hatred will follow it down the drain."

Some organized religion does foster fear, no doubt about it. Some does not. It depends on which congregation you attend and what points of doctrine they are focusing on. I have seen churches that foster fear, I've seen churches that don't, they foster love instead. It is my impression that much fundamentalist religion (whether Christian or Muslim or Jewish) does foster fear...while much more liberal religion amongst Christians and Muslims (and possibly Jews, but I'm not sure) usually does not.

I don't have the impression that Buddhism or Hinduism tend much to foster fear in people, since they are not based on punitive notions about sin, heaven, and hell...

Now let me amend your statement by replacing religion with politics. Ahem!

"Man's greatest enemy is fear. Organized politics fosters fear. It's what keeps the masses in line. Do away with fear, and hatred will follow it down the drain."

Take a look at your political system, and you will see who is fostering fear...your politicians are...and some of them are using religion in a big way to push the message, while others are using other ways to push the message...but the message is still fear.

Pol Pot and Stalin and Mao used fear also to push the message. They were all deeply against organized religion.

The main problem in the world, kendall, is NOT organized religion...it is the competitive political systems which use organized religion...either as their flag to wave...or as their demon to condemn.

And what are competitive political systems after? They're after power, control, money, resources, land, and material gain.

That's what they always have been after, regardless of whether or not they paid lip service to religion.

Religion is a big problem all right...but it's not nearly as big a problem as politics. Look what happens to your own society whenever there's a presidential election! Rampant fear and prejudice, division, hatred, attack and counterattack, slander, lies, innuendo, propaganda. All accomplished by politics.

Politics, my friend, IS a religion all of its own...with its gods and goddesses, its public rituals, and its bloody sacrifices. In my opinion it is the most dangerous religion of them all.

Subject: RE: BS: If you had to vote today...
From: mg
Date: 15 Sep 08 - 12:15 PM

I plan to vote for Obama. However, if has been suggested, he dumps Biden and puts Clinton on, I will not vote for him/her. I might right in someone. mg

Subject: RE: BS: If you had to vote today...
From: Donuel
Date: 15 Sep 08 - 11:07 AM

Deadlines to register to vote are now 2-3 weeks away.

Subject: RE: BS: If you had to vote today...
From: GUEST,number 6
Date: 15 Sep 08 - 09:12 AM

You guys down there have to chill out a bit.

biLL   :)

Subject: RE: BS: If you had to vote today...
From: GUEST,number 6
Date: 15 Sep 08 - 09:09 AM

Geeezuz H. Donuel .... whoa !!!

Whew, heavy stuff indeed. Damned scarry.

biLL (shivering in fear)

Subject: RE: BS: If you had to vote today...
From: Donuel
Date: 15 Sep 08 - 09:03 AM

I don;t know if you are one but,
I know religious fanantics.
The ones I know say they are waging a spiritual war
This is their brand of jihad in which they must inflict harm or hard times against anyone outside thier religion and love of God.

The US religious fanantic is able to "look at" the state of our military
The US religious fanantic is able to "look at" the housing market crises
The US religious fanantic is able to "look at" Wall street collapse
The US religious fanantic is able to "look at" Bank failures
The US religious fanantic is able to "look at" our 7% unemployment
The US religious fanantic is able to "look at" our Dept of Justice
The US religious fanantic is able to "look at" our global reputation
The US religious fanantic is able to "look at" the Bush doctrine
The US religious fanantic is able to "look at" spending $54 Trillion we do not have.

BUT WHAT DO THEY SEE WHEN THEY LOOK ?

They see not having to pay back what the Lord has given them.
They see more of the same will change their situation.
Hard times really do help the RV evangelists, and they are happy to tell pie in the sky stories and "look how rich I got' tales.

Its hard to know what people who lie to themselves and each other really do see.

They don't see a problem with voting for more of the same
as long as their religion comes a step closer to controling the country and its government.

They say Obama as a false prophet and his followers are a religious cult. This is red meat for their Christian Cult Base.


Thats why I/m voting for McCain
So they will get exactly what they deserve in 2 years when China pulls the plug.

PS

THE Palin plan to drill ???????????

It turns out the new leases will be given to CHINA
They get ripped off and you get lied to
its a very typical US business plan.

Subject: RE: BS: If you had to vote today...
From: GUEST,number 6
Date: 15 Sep 08 - 08:09 AM

I'm more concerned about the almost religeous type of fanatism brewing in the U.S about Obama, then I am about McCain and his Republican membership / representation.

It does seem no one can question or disagree about Obama with out being labeled an infidel by the Obama cult / fan club. Scarry indeed.

I just wish everyone would sit back ... really look at the issues and the rut the U.S. has gotten itself stuck in ... but, it's too late.

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: If you had to vote today...
From: kendall
Date: 15 Sep 08 - 07:39 AM

Man's greatest enemy is fear. Organized religion fosters fear. It's what keeps the masses in line. Do away with fear, and hatred will follow it down the drain.

Subject: RE: BS: If you had to vote today...
From: Emma B
Date: 15 Sep 08 - 07:30 AM

Twelve nations signed the North Atlantic Treaty on 4 April 1949: Belgium, Canada, Denmark, France, Iceland, Italy, Luxembourg, the Netherlands, Norway, Portugal, the United Kingdom, and the United States.
They pledged 'mutual defence'

Palin is unfortunaely just reiterating this position which may be why some European countries were so reluctant to approve extending NATO membership to unstable countries like Georgia!

Even more unfortunately to quote George Friedman, chief executive of Stratfor, a geopolitical risk analysis company in Austin, Texas

Neither McCain nor Obama `have the slightest idea of what to do about the Russians,'
`I know of no policy difference except rhetoric.'

Subject: RE: BS: If you had to vote today...
From: Riginslinger
Date: 15 Sep 08 - 07:08 AM

Well - LH - I would agree with most of your 10 points of reform, though I'm not sure there's much to be gained now by punishing Bush, Cheney, et al. However, I don't think you'd get to first base with most of them if you don't have a clear thinking electorate first.

Subject: RE: BS: If you had to vote today...
From: Little Hawk
Date: 15 Sep 08 - 12:03 AM

"Palin stated (on television) that we should go to war with Russia because they invaded a NATO treaty ally."

Ha! Oh, what a terrific idea that is, ho, ho! What a joke. You know, dick, they'll say anything to get a few more votes. It's just posturing. Anyone with a gram of knowledge about foreign affairs and actual reality knows perfectly well that the USA is not going to go to war with Russia over Georgia any more than Russia is going to go to war every time the USA sends troops into Panama or some other little country down there, for heaven's sake.

It's just more cynical pandering for votes and it doesn't actually mean a damn thing.

It's such an easy role for a Republican candidate to play. They love pretending to be John Wayne all the time. They've been doing it for so long that I think most of them actually believe it.

Subject: RE: BS: If you had to vote today...
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 14 Sep 08 - 11:07 PM

Let's see. Palin lowered the real-estate tax, and made it up by raising the sales tax. Classic regressive taxation.
Palin stated (on television) that we should go to war with Russia because they invaded a NATO treaty ally.
Palin, contrary to what Palin says, solicited earmarks to a degree that makes A;aska the highest per capita recipient of Federal funds.

Or is it that reality has a liberal bias?

Subject: RE: BS: If you had to vote today...
From: Riginslinger
Date: 14 Sep 08 - 11:03 PM

Well, I've never been one to let mental disturbance stop me. I was pressed for my most inner thoughts on the matter, and I gave them.
               Of course, I'm not looking for disciples!

Subject: RE: BS: If you had to vote today...
From: Little Hawk
Date: 14 Sep 08 - 10:16 PM

Well...that certainly opens up the field for a flurry of hot debate and counterstrike, Rig... ;-)

I can hardly wait.

I think you're a bit mentally disturbed around certain specific hot issues that trouble you, Rig, like the religion thing, but I like your honesty. (grin)

Here's my list of the most important goals that strike my fancy.

1. Get American troops out of Iraq ASAP. Pay the Iraqis massive war reparations to rebuild their country. Put Bush, Cheney, and numerous others on trial for illegal aggression, lying, and unconstitutional behaviour in regards to the Iraq war.

2. Provide universal and free government-funded health care to all American citizens and make it a constitutionally guaranteed right from this time forward.

3. Stop using the CIA to import illegal drugs into the USA and subvert foreign governments. In fact, shut the bastards down and put their top people on trial as well for crimes against the nation and against humanity in general.

4. De-militarize your college campuses (remove recruitment offices, I mean).

5. Re-open the 911 investigation. There is much that needs to be re-examined there.

6. Abolish the Democratic and Republican parties and start over from scratch. In fact, abolish all political parties in the USA from here on in. Everyone runs as an individual, not as a party member of any party.

7. Establish a modest public fund to fund future election campaigns, drawn from tax dollars. By means of this fund all future candidates for government office will receive equal funding, no private donations will be allowed. All will get equal air time to present their views. The election campaign will be limited to 6 weeks. There will be no parties, therefore there will be no primaries either. You can now expect to spend about 1 per cent of what is presently spent on a presidential election campaign, and everyone who is in it will get equal media coverage.

8. Stop pestering people about their various sexual and private lifestyle choices and their religion or their lack of it. Let THEM choose how they should live for a change and as long as they're not hurting anyone or obviously breaking ordinary civil laws then leave them the hell alone.

9. Get American troops out of Afghanistan too. They're not fighting terrorism there, they're attempting to secure strategic areas and build oil pipelines. Let the Afghans deal with their own internal affairs...they'll fight it out amongst themselves like they always do, someone will eventually win, and the status quo in Afghanistan will resume like it always does as soon as the foreign armies leave.

10. Provide jobs for the unemployed and homes for the homeless. Consider that a replay of FDR's New Deal, and get to it. It can be done. All it takes is the will to do it.



That's a start. ;-) More stuff for people here to fight about. Go to it.

Neither Obama nor McCain will deliver you the programs I suggested above, by the way, and I doubt that Nader would either, not that he has a dog's chance in hell of ever being elected... ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: If you had to vote today...
From: Riginslinger
Date: 14 Sep 08 - 09:35 PM

"But still no specifics. It's amazing how much your reply sounds like another smear."

               Ron - You need to consult a thesaurus. Every time somebody disagrees with you, you say they are either invovled in a "smear" or a "conspiracy theory."

               In any event, at the risk of having to face the little white coated men with the butterfly nets when I walk out my front door in the morning, I'll tell you what I think are the most important goals, both in America and world wide, and why I think the American election should be directed in one direction and not the other.

1. The most important task facing deep thinking individuals--in my opinion--is to stamp out the scourge of religion. Once that is accomplished, the country would be endowed with a rational thinking citizenry who would be able to plot out real solutions to real problems.

2. The most significant problem facing mankind--again, in my opinion, is the survival of the planet in a form that would sustain human life in the future. When non-addicted, rational thinking people address this issue, I think they will certainly discover that the one immediate thing they need to do to save the planet would be to stop the growth of human population. The most important first step to accomplish this goal would be to get a firm grip on human migration. In North America, this would mean curtailing illegal immigration from Latin America--at least at this point in time.

3. Once human population growth could be brought into some kind of a holding pattern, responsible people would need to start a mass program of in-depth education--this would include everything from math and science, to art, literature, history and music--world wide, with multiple cultures in mind.

                Once you arrived at that point, you'd be on your way to allowing mankind to occupy a peaceful and rewarding world. A place where everyone on the face of the planet could look forward to a long and fruitful life.

                Of all of the candidates out there in the American election, it seems to me that the worst possible choice for the purpose of accomplishing the above stated goals would be Barack Obama.

Subject: RE: BS: If you had to vote today...
From: Little Hawk
Date: 14 Sep 08 - 08:41 PM

What makes you think he is backing either McCain or Palin, Ron? Why does it have anything to do with his well known hatred of religion?

The fact that the addition of Palin to the Republican ticket has made McCain more attractive to a very large number of potential American voters is as obvious as the fact that water gets you wet. ;-) Rig's observation that that is the case does not mean he is endorsing either McCain or Palin, he is simply observing a political fact.

He has openly STATED that he would not vote for either McCain/Palin OR Obama/Biden.

Why, therefore, are you erecting a straw man about religion to hurl meaningless rhetorical questions at Riginslinger which imply that he's a hypocrite in his anti-religious views?

Subject: RE: BS: If you had to vote today...
From: Ebbie
Date: 14 Sep 08 - 08:33 PM

Riggie, have you caught religion? Sounds like you must have. Welcome to the fold.

Subject: RE: BS: If you had to vote today...
From: Ron Davies
Date: 14 Sep 08 - 08:17 PM

And what about my observations of Sarah?   It must be the fundamentalism you share which makes you so enthusiastic about her. Right?