BS: Do you eBay - what about after October?

Subject: BS: Do you eBay - what about after October?
From: katlaughing
Date: 21 Sep 08 - 05:16 PM

eBay has changed their policies so that in October one can only buy or seel by using a PayPal acount. eBay owns Paypal, so they not only will get a cut from the seller for allowing them to sell on eBay, but they will also take a cut from the "net" so that each seller is then paying them even more. They will not let sellers accept any other kinds of payments, which lets out money orders and personal checks.

I have a good friend who has supported himself for nine years selling on ebay and done a good job of it. Now, he is so upset about the monopolistic shenanigans he is no longer going to sell or buy on ebay after October. He also told me he knows of another seller, the nation's largest Hollywood paper memorabilia dealer, with 500 - 1000 items listed daily, quit ebay about six months ago because they were fed up with ebay's stuff.

If you use ebay, how do you feel about these changes?

Subject: RE: BS: Do you eBay - what about after October?
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 21 Sep 08 - 05:22 PM

They apparently can't make that one stick over this side of the pond.

JM

Subject: RE: BS: Do you eBay - what about after October?
From: Rapparee
Date: 21 Sep 08 - 05:59 PM

Ah don't do it, ma'am. 'Sides, they mostly don't sell stuff I want.

Subject: RE: BS: Do you eBay - what about after October?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 21 Sep 08 - 06:12 PM

eBay and PayPal are the 800 pound gorillas in the room. You can't live with them, can't live without them. It sucks. But there isn't another way that has a larger audience or that is likely to eventually bag a sale. Mostly my auctions are paid for with PayPal; a check may cut out the cut PayPal gets, but the folks who send checks aren't the ones who paid several hundred dollars for something to make it worthwhile. The check writers are the guys who bought a t-shirt and the total is $6.78 cents. Hardly worth the drive to the post office and then the bank, is it?

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Do you eBay - what about after October?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 21 Sep 08 - 06:54 PM

See Oz Ebay-Paypal deemed illegal

Subject: RE: BS: Do you eBay - what about after October?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 21 Sep 08 - 06:59 PM

The cut they get is minimal, and they provide a wonderful marketplace. So why should I complain about their cut? I've been voluntarily using Paypal for several years now, and I think it's great. It's WAY frikkin' better than waiting 2 or 3 weeks to get a money order or a check (sometimes filled out wrongly) or waiting 2 or 3 weeks for the person you bought something from to get YOUR money order or check and waiting longer for the check to clear before they even ship the item. Why the hell wouldn't a person use Paypal is what I want to know?

If you purchase a money order, it will likely cost you more in fees than Paypal's cut does anyway, and Paypal is instantaneous payment, verified at both ends. You can't get a better system than that.

I'm also in Canada, but most of my purchases and sales are with Americans. That means a currency conversion process, which Paypal does automatically. That's another plus for me.

There is no reason, Kat, why your friend cannot continue to make a good living on Ebay using Paypal, and it sounds to me like he's just being stubborn over the issue and causing himself unnecessary difficulties. It will hurt him. It won't hurt Ebay.

When I compare the Paypal transactions to the ones I do requiring a check or money order....man! What a difference in saved time and overall hassle. It's 10 times better all round to use Paypal.

Subject: RE: BS: Do you eBay - what about after October?
From: katlaughing
Date: 21 Sep 08 - 07:21 PM

I agree, LH, that PayPal is very convenient when purchasing something, but in this case it is selling and, since ebay owns paypal, they are double-dipping, imo...getting two cuts for letting one sell on their site and forcing one to accept payment only on their other site. They get the seller's fee for using ebay and the seller's fee for being paid. That I don't mind as long as they don't tell me it is the ONLY way I can get paid. Then it becomes a monopoly.

Fools, thanks for the link. I wonder why they are letting them do it, here. I notice SRS, you didn't think it would be allowed here, when Fools posted that thread. I know they are the biggest and best for reaching all folks, but there's got to be some competition coming along. My friend is not rash, very logical, although he does do things a bit differently than some folks. I know he wouldn't make this decision lightly.

Subject: RE: BS: Do you eBay - what about after October?
From: bobad
Date: 21 Sep 08 - 07:26 PM

If you own the business, you can dictate however you want a transaction to be paid for, if you limit the options you will only be hurting yourself.

Subject: RE: BS: Do you eBay - what about after October?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 21 Sep 08 - 07:29 PM

I understand your concern about them establishing a monopoly. Fine.

I cannot, though, understand why someone would discontinue a perfectly good Ebay business over it or why he would prefer to be paid with checks or money orders rather than Paypal.

I've been paid for stuff with checks and money orders. It's slow. It's cumbersome. It's unreliable. I groan whenever I get a buyer who doesn't have Paypal. It is a service totally worth paying a small fee for in my opinion, and I don't call that "double-dipping".

First of all, if Ebay didn't exist how would I so easily reach millions of potential buyers? That's worth paying for.

Secondly, if Paypal didn't exist, how would I have such a quick and reliable means of doing the transaction? That's a separate thing, and it's also worth paying for.

Subject: RE: BS: Do you eBay - what about after October?
From: meself
Date: 21 Sep 08 - 07:33 PM

I've never used e-bay or paypal - but some years back I was looking into e-bay in the capacity of a potential seller - I got bogged down with the whole business of paypal - stumbled onto a website devoted to personal horror-stories involving sellers' experiences with that service - after reading forty or fifty of them, I got discouraged - and another of my brilliant schemes died in birth ... However, I gather from my reading on this thread and another one recently that people's experiences here with paypal have been all right ... ?

Subject: RE: BS: Do you eBay - what about after October?
From: bobad
Date: 21 Sep 08 - 07:36 PM

In the few transactions where I used Pay Pal it worked as advertised, no problems.

Subject: RE: BS: Do you eBay - what about after October?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 21 Sep 08 - 07:50 PM

The biggest thing with Paypal (IMHO) is that they try to trap you into feeding your Paypal account (if yo are a buyer) from a credit card.

DON'T DO IT.

Make sure it is set up to be fed from a bank account (so-called "E-cheques).

You can stop a (UK) direct debit from a bank account (the so-called "direct debit guarantee"). You can't do so from a credit card. If you have a dispute with Paypal and they ahve your credit card number they can take the disputed payment from your credit card whether you like it or not.

Subject: RE: BS: Do you eBay - what about after October?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 21 Sep 08 - 09:21 PM

One for Heric or InOBU - why would say WorldPay not have a good cause of action under US anti-trust law?

Subject: RE: BS: Do you eBay - what about after October?
From: meself
Date: 21 Sep 08 - 09:36 PM

Hmmm - I had a post disappear. Anyway - thanks for the advice, Richard. I'll remember you when I've made my fortune ...

Subject: RE: BS: Do you eBay - what about after October?
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 21 Sep 08 - 11:46 PM

A couple years ago I had suffered a case of identity theft. Someone had my credit-card number and e-mail address and used it to buy jewelry, using PayPal. Despite the fraud, it was a terrific hassle to get Paypal to close the account.

It was impossible to prove, but I began to feel that the theft originated at Paypal. At that point I quit using eBay and Paypal at all. It just wasn't worth it.

I haven't missed them since.

Subject: RE: BS: Do you eBay - what about after October?
From: JennieG
Date: 21 Sep 08 - 11:51 PM

My son Stephen recently bought something on ebay from an international seller and paid for it with Paypal. The seller defaulted, but Stephen had no trouble cancelling the transaction and getting his money back. He has been buying from overseas for a few years with no other problems, so it was good that this worked out well for him. Without Paypal his story might not have ended so well.

Cheers
JennieG

Subject: RE: BS: Do you eBay - what about after October?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 21 Sep 08 - 11:55 PM

I've had no bad experiences with Paypal and that's over the course of several years and hundreds of transactions.

Subject: RE: BS: Do you eBay - what about after October?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 21 Sep 08 - 11:57 PM

I'd think you have more recourse to protect yourself if you use a credit card with PayPal--the credit card folks (here in the U.S., anyway) have more "protections" built in than bank accounts or debit cards, though I think they've been protecting debit accounts better lately.

Kat, I can't say for sure what I'd been reading when I posted on that other thread. The anti-trust meaning occurs then and now, that PayPal only would mean less competition--but that probably depends on eBay's standing. Is it publicly owned or private, is it regulated, and by whom?

I think that in eBay auctions you're not supposed to say you don't accept credit cards via PayPal (supposedly--I've had auctions shut down for it when I was still using the "free" PayPal--that works until someone offers to buy with a credit card). It's all or nothing with them.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Do you eBay - what about after October?
From: katlaughing
Date: 22 Sep 08 - 12:11 AM

Yeah, I hear ya, Maggie. From what I've heard they went public recently which may be part of the reason for the changes.

I have had good service from PayPal, too. Regardless, we are going to start buying prepaid credit cards to use for online purchases. Even though we have a separate account at our bank for online, I just don't like using it...I'd prefer using a prepaid one with a finite amount available and no connection to our bank account.

Subject: RE: BS: Do you eBay - what about after October?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 22 Sep 08 - 12:17 AM

How it all began

Subject: RE: BS: Do you eBay - what about after October?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 22 Sep 08 - 12:19 AM

Well, like all other big and successful enterprises these days they probably have some highly paid professionals advising them as to how they can "save money and increase profits" on each and every transaction.

A nickel here, a penny there...multiply by 10 million transactions.

This is why half the large outfits who bill me now no longer include a self-addressed envelope to send the payment back in, and it's why I can't seem to contact a live human being when I phone them to ask why I'm not getting a return envelope with my bill any longer.

Some highly paid asshole in a suit told them they could save money, you see, by not providing return envelopes, and by laying off half their staff, and by getting the stuff made in Mexico or China...

And so things got more Orwellian, one small step at a time.

I'm not complaining much about Ebay here, not specifically, just making a general comment on how things seem to be going.

Subject: RE: BS: Do you eBay - what about after October?
From: GUEST,Matt_R
Date: 22 Sep 08 - 01:19 AM

The decision makes really no difference to me, since I always use PayPal and disregard sellers who don't accept it -- which is pretty rare these days anyhow.

I've been buying on eBay with PayPal for four years now and never had a single problem.

Subject: RE: BS: Do you eBay - what about after October?
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 22 Sep 08 - 02:48 AM

There is an alternative!!!!   Please try the link to an alternative site...... costs are cheaper than Ebay and seems well organised... haven't used it yet but have to say it appears good.
Best wishes, Mike.

Subject: RE: BS: Do you eBay - what about after October?
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 22 Sep 08 - 02:51 AM

I have taken the copy below from that auction site.... does it look good? :-        

Our end of auction fee for sold items is        
                 
        
3% of the final sale fee irrespective of price


                 
        Bid increments        
        
                 
From        To        Increment
0.00        1.00        0.50
1.01        3.00        1.00
3.01        10.00        2.00
10.01        50.00        5.00
50.01        500.00        10.00
500.01        10000        25.00
10000.01        1000000        100.00


        Acceptable Payment Systems        
                 
        We are happy to accept and support most types of payments including Google Checkout, Cheque (Check), Amex, Diners Club, Mastercard, Paypal and of course, cash at the senders risk. We never forget that you have a choice        
                 
        List in any currency        
                 
        We support over 50 currencies from around the world so that you have the choice which to list in

Subject: RE: BS: Do you eBay - what about after October?
From: open mike
Date: 22 Sep 08 - 09:56 AM

what? no VISA card?s accepted?
my master card changed to VISA

Subject: RE: BS: Do you eBay - what about after October?
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 22 Sep 08 - 10:52 AM

I have never experienced a problem with Pay Pal. I have bought and sold items, and the folk club that I am involved with sells tickets with Pay Pal (buyers are not required to have a Pay Pal account).

While it may be true that Ebay combined with Pay Pal is "double-dipping", I do not think there is anything "illegal" or even unethical about it. They are running a business and making money. That rubs a lot of people the wrong way, but I cannot fault a company for being successful as long as they do not hurt the consumer.

As Kat mentioned, she has a friend who has supported himself for 9 years. I find it interesting that Ebay has created opportunities like that for people to utilize to make a living. They do not charge this "small business owner" any more than they do the person who is selling the crock pot that they never used and want to make a few bucks from.

Seems sort of a mutually beneficial serice.

Subject: RE: BS: Do you eBay - what about after October?
From: Donuel
Date: 22 Sep 08 - 11:48 AM

The True cost of ebay must include the mistakes made including fraudulent items or no delivery at all as well as pay pal "mistakes"

Whe this is taken itno account there is no significant savings but actually more hassle and worry.

Your friend will have noticed the doubling of ebay fees in 9 years.

Subject: RE: BS: Do you eBay - what about after October?
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 22 Sep 08 - 12:01 PM

By the way, where is the new policy notification? I tried to find it on E-bays site and could not locate it.

Subject: RE: BS: Do you eBay - what about after October?
From: katlaughing
Date: 22 Sep 08 - 01:59 PM

Here are some comments by ebay users; I've deleted their user names. (I didn't just put in a link because non-ebayer members can't see that page.) I guess the actually policy states "electronic payments only" which translates to paypal only as that is all that is offered there:

        Aug-30-08 13:49 PDT
Finally, we really do have transparancy. When eBay talks about "paperless payments" you should just read "Paypal Only." It is so clear that this corporation wants to increase the profit center known as Paypal, and they are willing to sacrifice the small seller/buyer in order to do it. They say that it it is not Paypal only and then do not provide any competitive electonic system (they are coming, trust us). Of course one option is your own credit card system, which small sellers can't afford. Or, eBay will tell the Court, we could use money order or check. But if we tell buyers that is possible we get kicked off eBay. This is ridiculous on its face, and is the new name of eBay. Actually, I think most folks could deal with the changes if eBay would just be honest about what they are doing. I guess that there are legal reasons why they refuse to come clean.

i agree here is ebay forcing us-the sellers to pay more fees paypal fees.let the buyer decide if they want to pay with check,money order or paypal.dont be a dictator,you will lose more buyers this way.i have many happy customers who do not want to sign up with paypal but just pay with a m.o.another downhill step in the fall of ebay.--goes great with the crappy new feedback system,to hell with the sellers who make you the money.


It is disingenuous in the extreme to try to couch the mandatory paypal policy in terms of what is best for the buyer. It is a clear attempt to pump up commissions for paypal- if it weren't, we'd be seeing a counterpart announcement that commissions on paypal would be lowered or eliminated. Generally, when a company engages in non competitive behavior like this, lawsuits follow. We can probably all look for our class action notices in about a year.


I've been a buyer and a powerseller on eBAY for 10+ years. PayPal screwed me once BIG TIME and I dropped it. My buyers all pay with check or Money Order and no sellers have had any problems taking a check or Money Order from me. I am now attempting to "clean out" the stuff I have because when it becomes "mandatory" to take PayPal - I will close my account and be out of business. eBAY just keeps helping us "little" guys, don't they? Yeah, Right!


I strongly disagree with the new policy of electronic payments only. I hate using paypal. I buy thousands of dollars worth of trains and my credit card limit is not high enough for all purchases. I have a 100% positive rating on the feedback forum (over 254 purchases) and I have a 100 % satisfaction with the deals I have made. Sometimes I have spread the payment over three months or so. I may have to stop bidding if it goes to electronic only. I am very dissatisfied with this decision by Ebay.


just one question, when I list a local pick up auction, will I still be able to do a cash transaction? what happens then,? or the buyer pays with a cashiers check? in other words, are we allowed then to do a cash transaction and would we the sellers be in trouble with eBay? Mike


I cannot tell you how many of my buyers have said that they buy in confidence. They want no one to know they are making that expensive purchase. That is why they use a money order.They do not want a spouse to know--either a special gift or that rare (expensive) collectible. E-Bay always had this unique and wonderful feature. Of course some didn't pay or their was a dispute. But most put up with that as a cost of doing business. Wait until end of October or November and watch that E-Bay stock going down, down, down. Reconsider Now. Paypal is fine for those who want it. I DON'T.

Regarding Ebay's new policy of electronic payment only - read more PayPal fees for them - I have one comment - Jesse James used a gun !

I been selling on ebay by money order since 1999 and now i went to "The Toy Peddler" a few weeks ago and have sold 18 items already,sorry ebay you just lost some money.

You know, I actually think Ebay has some very nice people working for them, and in one sense I feel badly for them. They KNOW their company has made more than one bad decision. BUT, they, like so many others, need their job and therefore have no other choice but to tow the line and try to convince us what their company has done is good for us sellers when they know darn well in their hearts it is not so. You can sense it in their voices. There is an old adage in selling that says, " if you are going to be convincing, you gotta be convinced ".

Subject: RE: BS: Do you eBay - what about after October?
From: skipy
Date: 22 Sep 08 - 02:08 PM

My feedback is 100% & just a few below 2000! (Champagne in the fridge) I don't like the idea much, but only approx. 3% of sales are paid to me by methods other than Paypal.
Skipy
(2nd hand bra sales person!)

Subject: RE: BS: Do you eBay - what about after October?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 22 Sep 08 - 02:29 PM

The illegality lies on one oligopoly coercing the use of its affiliate

Subject: RE: BS: Do you eBay - what about after October?
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 22 Sep 08 - 02:33 PM

I'm still not seeing any notification on the Ebay page about electronic payment only.

Subject: RE: BS: Do you eBay - what about after October?
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 22 Sep 08 - 02:43 PM

"The illegality lies on one oligopoly coercing the use of its affiliate"

Doesn't an "oligopoly" mean that more than one of the companies are involved in the business are both effecting the market - meaning that other online auctions area also requiring the use of Paypal.   What other companies are doing this?

I still have not found evidence of the original premise either!

Subject: RE: BS: Do you eBay - what about after October?
From: IvanB
Date: 22 Sep 08 - 08:25 PM

Like Ron, I can find nothing on the eBay site about PayPal being the only allowable payment choice come October. True, they changed their policy in March of this year to require that sellers offer PayPal or a credit card as accepted forms of payment, but didn't preclude sellers from offering other payment alternatives as well. Of course, if you can't run your own credit card acceptance system (and I understand these are quite hard to get, especially for small businesses), then PayPal becomes your only electronic payment option.

As far as double-dipping, if you have a physical business, you pay for rent and/or upkeep of the physical plant above and beyond the cost of your goods. If you accept credit cards, you pay another fee to the card issuer for handling the financial transaction. If your bank happens to own the property at which you do business as well as providing you with your credit card acceptance system, does that make them double-dippers? And, if so, are not the charges they assess on you fair and customary charges for doing business (assuming they are in line with such charges elsewhere)?

It seems to me one has a choice: If the alternatives eBay has given you are unpalatable to you, then you may choose to sell elsewhere. Otherwise, you may just have to suck it up and realize these fees are part of doing business on eBay. The only real vote you have on eBay is with your dollars. If eBay is truly instituting a policy as kat outlined and they end up losing significantly because of it, you can bet they'll be reversing themselves.

On my part, I'm somewhat with Matt R - I look for merchants who offer PayPal, although I'm not the purist that he is. If I find something I want bad enough and can get it at the right price, I'll use other payment options if needs be. My history with PayPal, which goes back to their very beginnings, has been an entirely satisfactory one, even when I had to use their dispute process for one purchase.

Subject: RE: BS: Do you eBay - what about after October?
From: Melissa
Date: 23 Sep 08 - 03:24 PM

Where's the information about this on ebay's site?

I guess I don't understand whether this is a "what if" or a policy stating that sellers are required to offer a form of electronic payment..or whether all purchases will have to be made through paypal.

Subject: RE: BS: Do you eBay - what about after October?
From: katlaughing
Date: 23 Sep 08 - 03:58 PM

RIGHT HERE.

Subject: RE: BS: Do you eBay - what about after October?
From: Melissa
Date: 23 Sep 08 - 04:17 PM

thanks, Kat.
That was a lot easier than sniffing around the site trying to find it myself!

Subject: RE: BS: Do you eBay - what about after October?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 23 Sep 08 - 09:29 PM

Damn - my "How it all began" post above went to the wrong thread

Oz Ebay-Paypal deemed illegal

Sorry about that Chief!

Had several thread open at once - the cut and paste stuff had the wrong link in it....

Subject: RE: BS: Do you eBay - what about after October?
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 23 Sep 08 - 09:52 PM

Thanks Kat.   There is a big difference from your original post. Paypal isn't THE ONLY method they will accept, they are just eliminating checks and money orders. They still accept other credit cards and they say the are trying to work with other ELECTONIC methods.   

It looks like the days of old-fashion checks and money orders are numbered.

Subject: RE: BS: Do you eBay - what about after October?
From: katlaughing
Date: 23 Sep 08 - 10:44 PM

Yes, Ron, I noticed that, too. Teach me to read the fine print before i go off. Still it seems there are a lot of folks who still like to buy with anonymity. Guess they will have to purchase prepaid credit cards.

Subject: RE: BS: Do you eBay - what about after October?
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 23 Sep 08 - 11:48 PM

"Still it seems there are a lot of folks who still like to buy with anonymity."

There are also a lot of small business owners who do not like to take risks with checks. It always seems that the few who take advantage and scam others make it difficult for the rest of us. We live in a tougher world these days.

Subject: RE: BS: Do you eBay - what about after October?
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 24 Sep 08 - 06:55 AM

I noticed that there are no payment restrictions on "pay upon pickup" type transactions. These are usually items which would be difficult or impractical to ship, and are usually sold with a "local pickup only" stipulation. I guess eBay figures they'd be fighting an uphill battle trying to stipulate how payment is to be made in situations where the buyer and seller actually meet face to face.

Subject: RE: BS: Do you eBay - what about after October?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 24 Sep 08 - 07:01 PM

I asked a co-worker today how her husband, who also works in our library, will handle it after they to to PayPal only. She doesn't think it will make any difference to him since most of his payments come via PayPal. Actually, since he deals exclusively in one particular item (model trains) and has been doing this long enough there are quite a few transactions with long-time customers that never touch eBay. They trust each other and know what they're doing.

I've read accounts of people setting up their own web sites after learning how to attract web traffic their way via search engines and how to set up secure purchasing sites. But it is more work and you pay to maintain the web site and hire the expert to keep your site running and safe.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Do you eBay - what about after October?
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 24 Sep 08 - 07:44 PM

"I asked a co-worker today how her husband, who also works in our library, will handle it after they to to PayPal only."

Read above - it is NOT Pay-Pal only.

Subject: RE: BS: Do you eBay - what about after October?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 24 Sep 08 - 07:49 PM

I did read above. You're so supercilious, Ron.

It's close enough to eliminating anything other than PayPal or a credit card through PayPal that for all intents and purposes, it will be PayPal only for most users. Or former users.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Do you eBay - what about after October?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 30 Sep 08 - 10:47 PM

PayPal repays victim

Fran Foo | September 30, 2008

received a refund days before an expose of the companies' operations by the ABC's 7.30 Report was scheduled to air.
PayPal repays victim

Paul Foster, having been paid by PayPal, says other fraud victims should also be compensated
Paul Foster, who lives in Penrith, NSW, was asked by PayPal executives "what would it take to make him happy".

The segment, which could screen as early as this week, is expected to delve into how eBay and its subsidiary PayPal operate in Australia, and their buyer protection policy.

It will also look at both companies' response to defrauded customers in light of the recent collapse of one of eBay's largest traders, EBS International.

Thousands of people were caught high and dry when EBS, which traded on eBay as Ebusiness Supplies, was liquidated in late July.

PayPal said it had established a special fund for victims and some of the monies had been disbursed.

However, after several months trying to claim his $435 from eBay and PayPal, Mr Foster received a pleasant surprise last Friday. "At the start of the call they asked me what do we need to do to make you happy.

"After so many emails, calls and messages on eBay's board, it was good to finally hear from them. They were both very good to deal with and were very patient in dealing with what I had to say," Mr Foster said.

At the end of the conversation, the executives promised to resolve the matter.

Mr Foster, whose case was first highlighted in The Australian, was relieved to have finally received a full refund after many failed attempts.

Not only did he complain to both eBay and PayPal, he also lodged a complaint with the Banking and Financial Services Ombudsman.

He had previously been told by PayPal that he was not eligible for the EBS special as his transaction with EBS was "outside its reporting criteria". Although Mr Foster has received his dues, he says many others have been left out in the cold.

"I want justice for the other victims who haven't received a single cent after EBS collapsed. Some people have lost thousands of dollars," he said.

When asked why, after several months, Mr Foster was contacted and whether it was an attempt to silence him, Ms Stevens said: "As I have said in the past we are unable to discuss specific accounts."

She confirmed that not every EBS victim had been paid as some claims were still being processed. "We are looking at some cases on an individual basis." The subject of The 7.30 Report did not come up during the telephone conversation with PayPal, Mr Foster said. He had heard about the upcoming program but was not approached for an interview.

It is understood Australian Competition and Consumer Commission chairman Graeme Samuel was on the ABC program's interview list.

~~~~~~~~~

If you read the attached comments you will see that there are many who have been screwed over by Paypal/eBay. This has been going on for years, which is why I will never use Paypal - even to just send money to Muscat.

Subject: RE: BS: Do you eBay - what about after October?
From: EBarnacle
Date: 01 Oct 08 - 09:58 PM

I just purchased a van on EBay. We sent the deposit via PayPal and completed the transaction with cash. Very good deal. The car is registered and ready for state inspection. We have never had a problem with PayPal.

Subject: RE: BS: Do you eBay - what about after October?
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 01 Oct 08 - 10:20 PM

"You're so supercilious, Ron."

Listen chief, there is nothing "supercilious" about questioning an incorrect and misleading statement.


"It's close enough to eliminating anything other than PayPal or a credit card through PayPal that for all intents and purposes, it will be PayPal only for most users. "

That is two major options, and there are others if you choose to read the statement. Claiming that it is "only" Pay Pal was WRONG. The fact that you have an option to use a credit card is a BIG option. If you go into a store, you probably have one of two options - cash or credit.   I see E-bay doing nothing different except offer another option. They no longer take checks. They are not the first, and they are far from being in the minority.

No one is forcing you or anyone to use Ebay or Pay Pal. It is not a big deal.   I am fully aware that people do not wish to use Pay Pal or a credit card, that is fine.   To not like a companies policies is one thing, but to give misleading information is another.

Subject: RE: BS: Do you eBay - what about after October?
From: wilbyhillbilly
Date: 01 Oct 08 - 11:18 PM

I have been using Paypal and Ebay for about seven years now and have to admit I have not had any problems with either.

Having said that, I recently "opened a shop" on Ebay at £6 per month basic fee, now they have just announced that it has been increased to £14 per month, I now have to decide whether it is worth keeping or not, or defect to Ebid which is fast becoming a haven for disgruntled Ebay sellers of which I have noted there are more and more leaving recently.

Have Ebay/Paypal got too big now?

I don't see any point in ranting and raving about it though, one has a choice to "use or not to use" and I shall make a decision accordingly.

Subject: RE: BS: Do you eBay - what about after October?
From: wilbyhillbilly
Date: 01 Oct 08 - 11:21 PM

Reference the above post, it is 4:18 A M 2nd October here and I can't sleep, but now I feel better and will go back to bed. Thank you Mudcat for being here.

Subject: RE: BS: Do you eBay - what about after October?
From: IvanB
Date: 02 Oct 08 - 12:03 AM

Ron, although it's true eBay will continue allowing both PayPal and credit cards, for most sellers on eBay the reality will be that their local bank will be unwilling to allow them credit card acceptance rights (the requirements are fairly stringent), so PayPal will be their ONLY choice for accepting payments. For buyers, it doesn't make much difference, since one can fund a PayPal payment from a bank account or a credit card or even by echeck.

I don't have much of a problem with the new policy, but I've always been a buyer, not a seller, on eBay and I've been perfectly satisfied with PayPal, as I stated in my post above. But for the small or occasional seller, the choice is definitely limited.

Subject: RE: BS: Do you eBay - what about after October?
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 02 Oct 08 - 12:15 AM

"for most sellers on eBay the reality will be that their local bank will be unwilling to allow them credit card acceptance rights (the requirements are fairly stringent), so PayPal will be their ONLY choice for accepting payments."

That is a good point. I've always been a buyer myself. When Paypal allowed checks, were the checks sent directly to the seller or were they sent to Paypal?

Subject: RE: BS: Do you eBay - what about after October?
From: IvanB
Date: 02 Oct 08 - 12:47 AM

I don't think PayPal ever allowed checks. When they were allowed on eBay, they were sent directly to the seller. PayPal allows echecks, which undergo the same clearance process as a written check, i.e., the seller isn't credited with the money until it clears the buyer's checking account. I've never seen the advantage of doing an echeck rather than a direct debit but perhaps some people are into using the "float" time on their checking account.

Subject: RE: BS: Do you eBay - what about after October?
From: katlaughing
Date: 22 Oct 08 - 12:07 PM

For more on the subject of unhappy sellers, see these comments on "Kovel's" blogspot.

Subject: RE: BS: Do you eBay - what about after October?
From: katlaughing
Date: 22 Oct 08 - 02:51 PM

Anyone here use eBid?. No fees!

Subject: RE: BS: Do you eBay - what about after October?
From: GUEST,Justin U
Date: 22 Oct 08 - 03:35 PM

I got a major sickener recently on ebay. I sold an item to a guy who opted for standard postage, not recorded.

I sent item (I have the postal receipt) he claims he never received it. He made a claim and Paypal STOLE 98.00 out of my account to pay him.

So I am out near 100.00 pounds, lost my item and ebay and Paypal still haven't refunded fees. Post office accepted my receipt and gave me 8.00 pounds compo.

So please always send items recorded post.

Subject: RE: BS: Do you eBay - what about after October?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 22 Oct 08 - 05:40 PM

I have been sending more things insured, with that being the shipping and handling charge that gets tacked on. It protects me better that way, I think, especially if I'm selling something that is one of a kind in my household.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Do you eBay - what about after October?
From: Ythanside
Date: 22 Oct 08 - 07:14 PM

Can't see any problem dealing with Ebay and PayPal in tandem. Okay, so it's a wealthy combine raking in money by the cartload, but so what? It's a simple process, and if your sale or purchase goes smoothly you are getting a virtually risk-free service at very reasonable cost.   

I do sell on Ebay although most of my transactions are purchases, some of them such as Land Rovers, Diggers, etc being for fairly large sums.

Of two bad deals, when fraudulent sellers took my money and then vanished, PayPal refunded my outlay for the first as I had paid via them. The second, where the seller insisted on payment by personal cheque, cost me a tidy sum with no possibility of ever seeing the paid-for item.

The lesson was simple;use PayPal when buying via Ebay.

To see Ebay & PayPal in perspective, just think back to how cumbersome the process of buying and selling across the globe used to be in the days before the Internet.

Subject: RE: BS: Do you eBay - what about after October?
From: katlaughing
Date: 19 Nov 08 - 09:15 PM

Thought some of you might be interested in this from a weekly email I get from Kovels':

Thanks to all of you who have emailed or written that you trust us and would like us to start an online site for buying and selling because you're upset with eBay. No thanks. Our plate is full enough right now. But we are making a list of places to sell online that are similar to eBay. Please send us your suggestions and we will post the complete list soon.