 sj |
||
|
||
BS: The Irish Peace Process
|
|
|
Subject: RE: BS: The Irish Peace Process From: Don(Wyziwyg)T Date: 19 Jun 09 - 05:53 PM ""No reaction, and no reason that there should be, except that so much emotion has been expended here over this issue. I was sort of expecting that the break through, when it came, would arouse some comment."" Don't expect them to jump for joy Keith. It's just taken away their last excuse for slagging off the loyalists. Don T. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The Irish Peace Process From: MartinRyan Date: 19 Jun 09 - 02:27 PM Looks like a case of "Good news is no news!". It's one more small step on a long road. Regards |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The Irish Peace Process From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 19 Jun 09 - 02:23 PM No reaction, and no reason that there should be, except that so much emotion has been expended here over this issue. I was sort of expecting that the break through, when it came, would arouse some comment. Wrong again. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The Irish Peace Process From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 18 Jun 09 - 07:03 AM At last. Loyalists begin to decommisson. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/8106907.stm |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The Irish Peace Process From: Stringsinger Date: 09 Jun 09 - 10:39 AM Mick, I respectfully disagree. Economics are often fueled by religion and vice-versa. There is no reason why Ireland's economy can't work for both the Nationalist and the Northern side. The only thing standing in the way is religion. The reason that wars have been fought for years is because religion has entered into the equation. "Us and them" is a religious principle that has historically applied and needs to be changed. Ireland is so rich in culture and talent from both sides of the border that it makes no sense for either side to be shooting at each other. It comes down to the "Crips" and the "Bloods". This is not, and I repeat, not economic. That's a convenient dodge. Again, I respect you and hear what you say. Frank |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The Irish Peace Process From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 09 Jun 09 - 08:06 AM Above quote from Pres Barack Obama speech in Cairo last month. Superfluous now, but generations of Mudcatters yet unborn may wonder. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The Irish Peace Process From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 07 Jun 09 - 10:16 AM Resistance through violence and killing is wrong, and it does not succeed. For centuries, black people in America suffered the lash of the whip as slaves and the humiliation of segregation. But it was not violence that won full and equal rights. It was a peaceful and determined insistence upon the ideals at the center of America's founding. This same story can be told by people from South Africa to South Asia; from Eastern Europe to Indonesia. It's a story with a simple truth: that violence is a dead end. It is a sign neither of courage nor power to shoot rockets at sleeping children, or to blow up old women on a bus. That's not how moral authority is claimed; that's how it is surrendered. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The Irish Peace Process From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 05 Jun 09 - 09:36 AM You may well be right Den, but the events are disputed. Perhaps you have inside knowledge. The rest of us have to wait. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The Irish Peace Process From: Den Date: 05 Jun 09 - 09:24 AM Keith, how do you seriously think the police are going to respond to criticism. The point is, tension had been building in and around the area all day. There should have been a heavier police presence. There are plenty of eye witness accounts to the fact that there was no intervention to protect Mr. McDaid as he was being attacked. The article you linked to is a damning indictment of them as an impartial force. For more information check out Kevin Myers report from the Irish Independent. Kudos to the guys who did come to his aid but it was too little too late. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The Irish Peace Process From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 03 Jun 09 - 04:20 AM Den, fair point. You did not refer to the PSNI angle in your first post. The accusations that you state as facts are disputed by PSNI. Here is their response reported in same paper you linked to. http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/wersquoll-bring--killers-to-justice-orde-14314594.html Mrs McDaid,as well as criticising the police, said she was "grateful to the members of the PSNI who attended to Kevin after this horrific assault and who attempted to administer CPR as he lay dying at our feet." Better Peace Process news is the SE Antrim Brigade of UDA have announced that they will decommission before August deadline. http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2009/may/31/northern-ireland-uda |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The Irish Peace Process From: Don(Wyziwyg)T Date: 02 Jun 09 - 02:04 PM ""Note that Mick, like Elvis, has left the building (post of April 10)."" He may have left the discussion Martin, but, rest assured, he will be aware of what transpires here. Don T. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The Irish Peace Process From: MartinRyan Date: 02 Jun 09 - 12:45 PM Don(Wyziwyg)T Note that Mick, like Elvis, has left the building (post of April 10). Regards |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The Irish Peace Process From: Den Date: 02 Jun 09 - 11:24 AM I reopened this thread because the murder of Kevin McDaid and others is a direct attack on the peace process. Again it shines the spotlight on the PSNI who new in advance that UDA thugs were going to the area to cause trouble. They did nothing to stop them. They did not intervene when Mr McDaid and Mr Fleming were being brutally beaten, even though incredibly, there were armed officers present. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The Irish Peace Process From: Don(Wyziwyg)T Date: 02 Jun 09 - 07:26 AM ""Your defending the Loyalists right to keep weapons while insisting the Republicans decommission theirs is proof of your bigotry."" There is a huge difference, Mick, between defending the right of anyone to keep arms, and expressing approval of someone who, having arms, decides under extreme and deliberate provocation NOT TO USE THEM! I don't think anyone here is advocating that loyalists be armed (rather the reverse), but, whether rightly or wrongly, they are. This is a separate issue from the fact that, after an attack, they DID allow the properly constituted authorities to deal with the matter according to law, thereby thwarting the intentions of the dissidents, and PRESERVING the peace. Tell me Mick, how does what I have just said make me a hypocrite, a loyalist partisan, a bigot, or any of the other unpleasant names you attribute to those who disagree with your long distance expertise in Irish affairs. Don T. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The Irish Peace Process From: Don(Wyziwyg)T Date: 02 Jun 09 - 07:08 AM ""My point stands - Loyalists who hang onto their guns - just as dissident republicans - do so in the expectation of using them at some point: why else would you keep them except as 'insurance' (or perhaps to enforce the UVF's and UDA's drug dealing). If they were committed to peace they'd have consigned the guns to he dust bin when the main body of republicans did. Instead it seems to be the case with loyalists 'first in, last out'"" So it is YOUR belief that the USA retains its nuclear weapons with the firm intention of one day using them, rather than as a deterrent? Brilliant! Don T. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The Irish Peace Process From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 01 Jun 09 - 07:15 PM I'm not sure I see the point of reopening a thread just to say, about something terrible that has happened, "this is a terrible thing to have happened". |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The Irish Peace Process From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 01 Jun 09 - 05:36 PM That was a particularly horrific murder Den. I would not have renewed the thread for an act of sectarian violence, however brutal. Similarly not for paramilitary punishment beatings and shootings. But that is just me. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The Irish Peace Process From: Den Date: 01 Jun 09 - 01:47 PM I waited for a while before posting my comments about an incident that took place a week ago in Coleraine, N. Ireland. I waited to see if any of our usual contributors would post anything. Unsurprisingly noone seemed to find the killing of another innocent catholic worth a mention. This is the original account of the incident reported by the Belfast Telegraph. There are a series of related articles on the site if anyone requires more information. Kevin McDaid was buried today. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The Irish Peace Process From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 14 Apr 09 - 10:52 AM A report on Republican Sinn fein news conference last month, and a report on a probable RIRA announcement and comments on it from Sinn Fein http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/7997429.stm http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/7966390.stm |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The Irish Peace Process From: Dave the Gnome Date: 13 Apr 09 - 12:01 PM Just in case Cathy's remark gets deleted as a guest, it was - Yes Dave, both bring old farts out. Cat Brilliant :D (eG) |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The Irish Peace Process From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 13 Apr 09 - 10:10 AM I resemble that remark. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The Irish Peace Process From: GUEST,Cathy Turnball Date: 13 Apr 09 - 10:07 AM Yes Dave, both bring old farts out. Cat |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The Irish Peace Process From: Dave the Gnome Date: 13 Apr 09 - 09:40 AM ...but does the peace process have anything to do with processed peas? DeG |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The Irish Peace Process From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 11 Apr 09 - 11:05 AM The Irish Peace Process is hindered by prejudice, bigotry and hypocricy. Those guilty should be brought to account, but justice demands that EVIDENCE MUST BE PRODUCED. Accusations must not be made on the basis of IGNORANT PREJUDICE AND OPINION. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The Irish Peace Process From: Dave the Gnome Date: 11 Apr 09 - 10:07 AM If every post that is not on topic on Mudcat was deleted there would be precious little left in the threads. But, to make sure my post is not deleted I would like make it quite clear that the comments below refer to Irish Peace process. Unless everyone is heard and all their comments are taken on board there is little chance it will suceed. The only way forward is to drop old predjudices, blinkered attitudes and authoritarian censorship. If everyone took the attitude of 'I don't like it so people should not say it' then what is the point of democracy? As much as the powers that be would like to silence those who disagree with them it will not happen. DeG (Who has kept a copy of this post just in case...) |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The Irish Peace Process From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 11 Apr 09 - 09:34 AM My deleted reply available by pm. I suggest that if you don't want your message deleted, you discuss the "Irish Peace Process" and not posters to this thread. Thank you, a moderator. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The Irish Peace Process From: Big Mick Date: 10 Apr 09 - 03:33 PM I am well aware of the rules. I have ceased to participate in this thread. I also have turned the moderating of it over to another moderator several days ago. I called your views bigoted and hypocritical. I am entitled to that opinion of your views. What kind of a person you are is not something that I am privy to as we have never met. I note that you have indicated that the Loyalists should be forced to decommission. That is what I was after. I would like it to be unequivocal, and without condition. Off the street is not good enough. They should be put beyond use, just as the Republican weapons. Your views of them should be the same. My opinion is that Brits, such as yourself, have no more and no less right to an opinion on the political situation than Yanks do. I am entitled to my opinion. You have consistently twisted that, as I have seen you do throughout the years on this subject. That is my opinion. You do not live in the North of Ireland, nor does Teribus, nor do I. I get the distinct impression that you will not be satisfied with me until my views on the subject of the land THAT MY PEOPLE CAME FROM, in whose traditions and culture I have been steeped all the years of my life, have changed. I find the actions of the British government reprehensible, and I am entitled to that opinion. You want me to acknowledge that I think PIRA was wrong for their actions. That is ridiculous and will never happen. What has gone before has gone before. And it has brought us to a moment when my kin are finally on the verge of peace and a stable government. That would be like asking the Viet Cong to apologize for their fight, or the American Revolutionary guerrilla fighters (who were not supported by many of the people at the time) to apologize for their actions. In my eyes, the PIRA fighters had a simple goal and a proper goal. But the day that the people of the North made a committment to peace and the ballot box, my philosophical support for the armed struggle ended. But I am not going to apologize for it, and I am not going to criticize it. Brave men and women paid too dear a price for that to happen. You call Sands a terrorist. I call him a hero. No matter how you cut it, no matter how you gerrymander the facts to suit you argument, the fact remains that the government of Great Britain has been found to have acted inappropriately, emprisoning Irish men and women without charge, to have used of torture, provided intelligence to Loyalist units, looked the other way while murder was committed, and allowed the harassment of my kin and friends in the North. So, complain to whom you will. You will get no more response from me. Discussion with you is fruitless. I will not apologize, and I have not violated any rule in indicating that I find your views to be hypocritical and bigoted. These are the last words you get from me on this subject. It doesn't matter at any rate. The end of the British governments meddling in the affairs of the North of Ireland is in the air. And given time, the democratic vote of the people, IMO, will reunite it with the Republic. It may take some time to undo the gerrymandering and the still felt effects of the plantation polices, as well as the use of the Orange Card, but it will happen. Then Irish people, Orange and Green, Protestant and Catholic, will finally just live in peace. One last thing. I gave a lot of thought to Martin's comments about GUEST,Dion's post, as well as your comments. I made the decision to delete the comments, and accept that I erred in pointing out that it could be taken several ways. Martin, and yourself, were correct. I came back to delete them and saw that the other moderator had done this already. I support that, and I wish to say that I was wrong and that should have been deleted immediately. The only reason that I have not blocked this person is that I think it important to have a Republican view from the ground in the North. But whenever something is posted that implies a threat, it should be deleted. I was away during the time that these were posted, but the other moderator sent me an email making me aware of the post. I apologize for not deleting those posts immediately. That's it for me in this thread and on this topic. Carry on without me, boyo's. Mick |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The Irish Peace Process From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 10 Apr 09 - 02:41 PM Mick, you have posted elsewhere. Am I not worthy of a reply? I have complained to a moderator about misconduct from another member. Two other respected members have also criticised that member's inappropriate use of the offensive term "bigot." I have listed the other offensive words you used against me without evidence or justification. Name calling, personal and ad hominem attacks. All emotion and no knowledge. There are rules here. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The Irish Peace Process From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 09 Apr 09 - 04:59 PM Big Mick, you are a founder member of this site and a trusted moderator. As such you should feel a responsibity to uphold forum rules. You have just said that I "make apologetic comments about Loyalist arms, while ranting on and on about the IRA decommissioning." Show me (except the post where I used your own words). You have also called me a bigot, a hypocrite and a twister of the truth. I have given a link to the "BS: Loyalists' Weapons - Off The Streets NOW" thread and my contribution to it. I can link to posts where I declare my unbiased condemnation of all the paramilitaries and to me telling a loyalist he has no support from me. I say that those and other posts prove I am no bigot and no hypocrite. Mick, if you can not give a good example of my hypocrisy, or of me being bigoted, or being untruthful, then you should withdraw. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The Irish Peace Process From: GUEST,lox Date: 09 Apr 09 - 04:27 PM (lox lurks furtively in shady alley wearing long coat as Martin Ryan walks nervously by) " .... pssst ... martin .... need any BS? .... " |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The Irish Peace Process From: MartinRyan Date: 09 Apr 09 - 02:59 PM Big Mick I'm afraid most of the rationalising going on in this thread is on your part. If I had a dollar. euro or pound for every "republican" who said "I don't support violence but..." I could rescue the economy. Me? I'm off to another forum where they squabble about the identification of double-barred crossbills and other such arcane matters. Ultimately, it's more productive than this sterile, circular "debate". Note to self: I must keep away from BS. I must keep away from BS. I must.... |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The Irish Peace Process From: Big Mick Date: 09 Apr 09 - 02:24 PM Let me clear up a couple of things. It seems we all read each others posts through the shade of our own biases. Sugarfoot Jack, I do not hate the British people, whether they are English, Cornish, Welsh, Scots, ..... whatever. I am sorry you take my comments that way. I have way too many good British friends to make such a blanket statement. But I do hate the policies of the British Government, over the years. I think I would characterize it the same way that I have heard my British friends characterize the USA. Love the people, hate the policies. Martin, you said: I am sorry you take such a personal view, as it was not meant personally. Nor did I imply such a thing. What I find hypocritical and bigoted are those that make apologetic comments about Loyalist arms, while ranting on and on about the IRA decommissioning. Teribus is an example. Keith is another. Whenever one brings up the fact that the Loyalists have not yet done the right thing, these blokes rationalize it. My only point is that you either buy into the process or you don't. There can be no equivocation. And from the latest comments, I can see that they have As to my support of violence, quite simply I don't support it. But neither will I offer apologies for the past. Michael Collins was seen as a violent terrorist in his time, but his actions surely had a major impact on the present day Republic of Ireland. It is foolish to condemn the past. But I have said many times. The people of the North of Ireland, all of the people, have embraced the ballot box. That means it doesn't matter what some Yank across the western water, or some Brit across the eastern water think. It is why the armed struggle is not relevant, despite what some of the dissidents think. The people who live there will determine their future. Here in the States we have people that think with the election of Obama we have entered into a post racial part of our history. Nothing could be further from the truth. Same goes for the North of Ireland. As we can see, the peace process was just a start. It will take the best part of a generation for this to play out. As to my right to speak to the issue, I have every much right as Keith, or Teribus, or any of you. The only people I will accept take a back seat to are those on the ground there. I may not agree with their views, but they have legitimacy. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The Irish Peace Process From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 09 Apr 09 - 09:13 AM Sugarfoot Jack, you say of me "I disagree with your general bias" It is hard to see bias in oneself, but I think that my only bias here is against paramilitary violence. Do you not share that? I have never shown bias between Loyalist and Republican violence. Both disgust me and I have said so since my very earliest posts on Mudcat. The difference is that in my time on Mudcat no one has ever defended Loyalist violence. I have had no one to argue with on that side. Thus all my arguments have been with defenders of Republican violence. Like Mick (although he does not defend the current violence). |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The Irish Peace Process From: Backwoodsman Date: 09 Apr 09 - 08:05 AM "What I do dislike is some of the absolutism displayed by people who don't live in these Isles, let alone Ireland. We should be listening to the people who live there regardless of which side they are from and attempt to understand. The reason I believe the peace process will work is that there are ordinary people in the North who are willing to do that at a personal level, and that takes some courage. In years to come their efforts will pay dividends - I hope." (My editing, underlined for clarity, BTW) Absolutely correct Jack, my view too. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The Irish Peace Process From: Stu Date: 09 Apr 09 - 06:47 AM "I would be interested to know which of my views stated here or elsewhere you disagree with." I disagree with your general bias, although do respect your opinion of course. I've said before and I'll say again that in Britain we are simply not taught about the actions that took place during the days of Empire and the consequences of it. We've spent so long on the arse end of a well-oiled propaganda machine our ability as a society to understand the context and depth of feeling amongst Irish Republicans and Loyalists is virtually nil, unless you actively go out and seek some answers. What I do dislike is some of the absolutism displayed by people who don't live in the Isles, let alone Ireland. We should be listening to the people who live there regardless of which side they are from and attempt to understand. The reason I believe the peace process will work is that there are ordinary people in the North who are willing to do that at a personal level, and that takes some courage. In years to come their efforts will pay dividends - I hope. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The Irish Peace Process From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 09 Apr 09 - 06:47 AM Also Mick, I deny twisting the truth. If some truths do not fit your philosophy, they are still truths. You and sugarfoot should remember that I have never argued against a united Ireland. I long for the day. Our point of disagreement has always been that PIRA violence only damaged that hope. What really annoys you is when I point out that the majority of Northern Ireland Nationalists agreed with me. It is untwisted truth that those were the views of NICRA and SDLP. Get over it. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The Irish Peace Process From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 09 Apr 09 - 06:38 AM So Mick, you posed your question to me just to make the point that dissident repubs are a small minority of all repubs? How pointless. Eveyone on this thread knows that anyway. See Leadfingers' comment around 8th March. It is also pointless to insist that we must never criticise any dissident republican violence without restating, every single time, that we also condemn loyalist weapons holding. Do you have another point to make? |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The Irish Peace Process From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 09 Apr 09 - 04:51 AM The Loalist Paramilitaries (who I regard as terrorists) are wrong not to have decommissioned already and should do so at once. Like David I have stated that many times before. This link is for the thread where David and I joined a campaign for loayalist decommissioning. thread.cfm?threadid=81147&messages=313 Sugarfoot, I think most brits do share my view in that we all oppose ALL the terror groups and we want the peace process and democracy to succeed, and we on the mainland dream of the day when they can get enough people over there to vote to leave Britain. I would be interested to know which of my views stated here or elsewhere you disagree with. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The Irish Peace Process From: MartinRyan Date: 09 Apr 09 - 04:48 AM I'm normally averse, on principle, to stating the blindingly obvious but , for once, here goes: Big Mick "And if you folks across the pond really believed in the process you would just say that they are wrong for not decommissioning." They are wrong for not decommissioning. Frankly, I resent your implication that those who condemn "republican" violence of whatever shade, without appending loyalist-related caveats, are "bigoted". Regards |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The Irish Peace Process From: Stu Date: 09 Apr 09 - 03:52 AM "And if you folks across the pond really believed in the process you would just say that they are wrong for not decommissioning." They are wrong for not decommissioning. From my post of Date: 16 Mar 09 - 04:25 AM: "Er, that's not quite true. Loyalist paramilitaries have not disarmed and still have plenty of weapons, so it's time for them to disarm too." It might surprise you to know Mick that not everyone in Britain hold's Keith's views. I don't care how anti-British you are and how much you hate us all but you are labouring under a massive misapprehension if you think that all the folks across the pond are in some way approving of many of the state's actions in the North. To say people here don't believe in the peace process (although of course some on both sides don't) is just plain ignorant. Stop tarring everyone with the same brush. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The Irish Peace Process From: Dave the Gnome Date: 08 Apr 09 - 10:16 PM And if you folks across the pond really believed in the process you would just say that they are wrong for not decommissioning. OK, Mick. They are wrong for not decommisioning. How about that. I have said it many times before and in many different ways. I have said it here. I have said it to my MP. But I have now said it in the exact words that you want. But the fact still remains that witholding weapons and using them is much worse than witholding them but not using them. I don't realy understand why you would think the two views seem to mutualy exclusive. Cheers DeG |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The Irish Peace Process From: Big Mick Date: 08 Apr 09 - 04:29 PM Keith, you know very well why I asked you the specific question. It is because you seek to lump Irish Republicanism with terrorism, using the catchall phrase of "republicans" or "republican violence". Once you get specific, it is easy to show the bias. Let's look at what you posted. Coninuity IRA - this is a splinter group of dissidents that is estimated to have 50 to 80 members, according to Reuters. RIRA - a splinter off CIRA that has even fewer members. IRLA - according to the Independent Monitoring Commission this group is "not terrorist in nature" and is essentially a group of folks involved in criminal activity. INLA - estimated to have a couple of dozen members, and a few hundred supporters. Oglaigh na hEirrean - one of a number of groups using the name, but the one I suppose you refer to is the splinter off of CIRA. They have few weapons, have committed some robberies, and use pipe bombs from time to time. Add it all up and you have a few hundred, then stack that against the Republicans that have embraced the peace process, and you see that they will make a few headlines but the day of the gun is essentially over. It is now about the ballot box. Finally I want to address this remark: That is exactly what I mean when I say you folks have been twisting the truth so long that you don't even realize you are doing it. If you really believed in the process you renounce that for the load of bollocks it is. Either you need weapons or you don't. If the Loyalists believed in the process, they would decommission, as PIRA did, and leave the few hundred dissidents to the authorities. And if you folks across the pond really believed in the process you would just say that they are wrong for not decommissioning. Mick |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The Irish Peace Process From: Dave the Gnome Date: 08 Apr 09 - 04:02 PM Thanks Keith. Of course all this is just a ploy by the British security forces to implicate Republicans in a plot to overthrow the free world as we know it... :D (eG) |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The Irish Peace Process From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 08 Apr 09 - 04:48 AM Dave and others might be interested in these recent reports on Loyalist weapons. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/7984116.stm http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/7978507.stm |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The Irish Peace Process From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 08 Apr 09 - 02:50 AM Sorry, 200. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The Irish Peace Process From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 08 Apr 09 - 02:49 AM Mick, "Who is doing that, Keith? The withholding of weapons and still using them. I want you to be very specific in your answer" I do not understand why you are asking this. Are you claiming to be the only one on the thread who does not know, or is it a late entry to Mudcat April Fools? I will be as specific as I can. They are: The Real Irish republican Army (RIRA) The Continuity Irish Republican Army (CIRA) The Irish Republican Liberation Army (IRLA) The Irish National Liberation Army (INLA) Oglaigh na hEireann (Soldiers of Ireland) None of the above armed groups have announced a cease fire. If you object to the label "dissident Republican" that is difficult because it is a descriptively accurate term and one used and accepted by all parties. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The Irish Peace Process From: Dave the Gnome Date: 07 Apr 09 - 09:23 PM PPS. In my last paragraph, for 'the bias on this post' read 'the bias on this THREAD' Mea Culpa:-( D. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The Irish Peace Process From: Dave the Gnome Date: 07 Apr 09 - 09:03 PM BTW - My father, who is Polish but has lived in England since 1946 and worked on building sites with many Irish, always said you can never win an argument with an Irishman. I know I am beat already but the Polish in me won't let me give up;-) D. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The Irish Peace Process From: Dave the Gnome Date: 07 Apr 09 - 08:58 PM The retaining of weapons by Loyalist groups seems to be very much a sticking point in this discussion of the peace process and therefore very much on topic. It has been pointed out, quite rightly, that out of the people that have retained weapons, the Loyalist groups have not yet used them. A number of us have written to our MPs to ask that as much effort is put into disarming them as was put into the disarming of the Republican groups. As far as I can tell this is now happening. There is a concerted effort by police forces all over the UK to take weapons away from criminals, and criminals is what these people are. Nothing more. So, right back to the opening question and spirit of the thread; how is the peace process going? Well, the view from here seems to be that it is going well. Reports both on this thread and in mainstream media sources seem to indicate the people actualy there are happy with the peace. There are thugs with guns about but, hey, there are gangland shootings in Manchester, London and any number of cities across the globe. The difference in the north of Ireland is that a couple of shootings have been performed in the name of the Republican cause. This has stuck, quite rightly, in the craw of the decent law abiding Republicans that form the majority. There are, however, those who want to justify it by citing the retention of arms by Loyalist para-military groups. Let me say here and now that I believe that the people who keep arms and the people who use arms to maim and kill are two entirely different cases. Yes, of course everyone should disarm. The Republicans, The Loyalists, The UK, The US, China, Russia and uncle Tom Cobley and all. We know it will never happen. So lets have the next best thing. Let those who want arms keep them, but not use them. This is happening all over the world anyway but in Ulster it seems to have formed the basis for an ongoing peace. What of those who are trying to derail that peace? I would say they are just criminal scum. But there are those here who will endevour to tell me that because I am not from that province I do not understand. Some of those same people have actively threatened others because of holding the same views as me. That is not conducive to understanding what is happening and is, quite rightly, not tolerated. Mick, I am not questioning your integrity as a moderator when I say this, but the bias on this post seems to be distinctly anti British at the moment and I cannot see a good reason for that. It has nothing to do with the rules of the forum or your actions it is just that there have been a spate of posts questioning the validity and integrity of posters who hold very similar views to mine. We are all for the peace process. We all want to get rid of the problem. We all abhor the actions of the disident groups. Why start dredging up old posts and old arguments if not to try and open old wounds? Cheers DeG |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The Irish Peace Process From: Big Mick Date: 07 Apr 09 - 06:40 PM Who is doing that, Keith? The withholding of weapons and still using them. I want you to be very specific in your answer. Martin, I am sorry you don't get my point. |
