BS: enough with the 'Czar' label

Subject: BS: enough with the 'Czar' label
From: Alice
Date: 11 Dec 08 - 12:11 PM

Am I the only one very annoyed by the label "Czar" being tacked onto positions in the US government? Ever since the "drug Czar" term, this keeps cropping up whenever there is a crisis to deal with an issue.
I don't know why it bugs me, but I'd wish the news reporters would stop doing it.
Here's the first recorded report of it according to Wiki:

The title was first published in a 1982 news story by United Press International which reported that "Senators... voted 62-34 to establish a 'drug czar' who would have overall responsibility for U.S. drug policy." Since then, several ad hoc executive positions in both the United States and United Kingdom have been established which have been subsequently referred to in this manner.

Subject: RE: BS: enough with the 'Czar' label
From: Bill D
Date: 11 Dec 08 - 12:16 PM

It takes less ink and typing than "kingpin" or "Chief Oversight Executive"

Subject: RE: BS: enough with the 'Czar' label
From: Alice
Date: 11 Dec 08 - 12:27 PM

Director would be more appropriate.

Subject: RE: BS: enough with the 'Czar' label
From: Rapparee
Date: 11 Dec 08 - 12:28 PM

I've wondered from the beginning if the "czar" could knout those who deserved it.

"Car czar" rhymes, which makes it good, if simpleminded, journalism.

Subject: RE: BS: enough with the 'Czar' label
From: Wesley S
Date: 11 Dec 08 - 12:29 PM

So Alice - can we appoint you as the "Official Mudcat Anti-Czar Czar"?

Subject: RE: BS: enough with the 'Czar' label
From: Amos
Date: 11 Dec 08 - 12:30 PM

Better than the Hoss Boss, or the Chief Flivver Quiver, I suppose.

Subject: RE: BS: enough with the 'Czar' label
From: Genie
Date: 11 Dec 08 - 12:33 PM

I'm not that crazy about the "kingpin" concept, either.   

We, supposedly, do not elect "leaders" in this country - at least in our Legislature, and arguably in our Executive branch either - we elect "representatives."   We are a constitutionally limited democratic republic.   The whole concept of kings, czars, or other real rulers is basically antithetical to the concept of government of the people, for the people, and by the people.   

I'm bothered enough by the creeping in of more and more Federal Executive Branch power -- things like "executive orders," "signing statements," etc.   Then we have things like the Federal Reserve Director changing monetary policy by fiat, too.    Not only do we need to curtail the tendency to give individual bureaucrats and executives too much power, but I thin we also need to rein in the use of terms that seem to endorse our acceptance of some sort of ruler.

"Chief Oversight Executive" may take more ink, but let's hope that it's more apt description of what powers Congress and the President want these bureau heads to have, and I think we'd do well to call them something that reflects that.

Subject: RE: BS: enough with the 'Czar' label
From: Alice
Date: 11 Dec 08 - 12:37 PM

If we want a policy to go in a certain direction, we put a director in charge.

I HATE that czar is being used the way it is, and don't know why, but it is physically like hearing fingernails on a chalk board when I hear it used in the context other than its original Russian meaning.

No, don't call me czar or czarina Anything.

The positions should be called Director, I believe. Director of Drug Policy or Drug Policy Director. Energy Policy Director. Terrorism Policy Director.

Sheesh, this really peeves me.

Subject: RE: BS: enough with the 'Czar' label
From: Rapparee
Date: 11 Dec 08 - 12:39 PM

Terrorism Policy Director? TP Director?

Subject: RE: BS: enough with the 'Czar' label
From: Paul Burke
Date: 11 Dec 08 - 12:41 PM

I'm in revolt against all these czars. I'm the drugs Lenin.

Subject: RE: BS: enough with the 'Czar' label
From: Art Thieme
Date: 11 Dec 08 - 12:42 PM

Carczar is the name of one of those new Iraqi head guys, right??

Art

Subject: RE: BS: enough with the 'Czar' label
From: Genie
Date: 11 Dec 08 - 12:43 PM

The labels we put on things do affect how we think and feel about them.
The danger in using terms like "Car Czar" and "War On Drugs" is that accepting those labels means - or at least leads to - accepting attitudes and concepts that are counter-productive.

Subject: RE: BS: enough with the 'Czar' label
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 11 Dec 08 - 03:10 PM

I agree. The idea of using antiquated aristocratic titles as tags for people in powerful positions is an affront to our society. We should use the names of SUPERHEROES! No more "Drug Czar"! He should be the DRUG TERMINATOR! And the not yet appointed overseer of all things automotive should be OPTIMUS PRIME!

Subject: RE: BS: enough with the 'Czar' label
From: GUEST,beardedbruce
Date: 11 Dec 08 - 03:22 PM

Present reference to "car czar" - Autocrat

Subject: RE: BS: enough with the 'Czar' label
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 11 Dec 08 - 04:45 PM

They never spell it Tsar do they? And when the person in question is a woman they never say Czarina (or Tsarina).

Funny how "Drug Czar" sounds so different from "Drug Baron"...

I wonder, have they imported this rather daft American terminology into Russia these days?

Subject: RE: BS: enough with the 'Czar' label
From: Genie
Date: 11 Dec 08 - 05:26 PM

Good one, Bruce!

How about "Drug Idol" instead? Maybe the public would really pay attention to him/her then?

Subject: RE: BS: enough with the 'Czar' label
From: Arkie
Date: 11 Dec 08 - 06:06 PM

If only there were someone smart enough and honest enough to actually oversee any industry, country, or action, I would not care what they were called.

Subject: RE: BS: enough with the 'Czar' label
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 11 Dec 08 - 06:54 PM

The real Czars weren't exactly a roaring success...

If they've got to use a term which normally refers to disastrous dictators, why not delve into British history and revive the title "Lord Protector"?

Subject: RE: BS: enough with the 'Czar' label
From: Genie
Date: 11 Dec 08 - 07:17 PM

Arkie: "If only there were someone smart enough and honest enough to actually oversee any industry, country, or action, I would not care what they were called."
Good point. We could use some real competence and integrity like that.

But I'd still object to the label. The way we label things affects (and reflects) how we conceptualize them, and I think in a democracy it's dangerous to encourage the citizens to think of themselves as peons being dictated to by some sort of ruler instead of seeing themselves as active participants in their government.

Subject: RE: BS: enough with the 'Czar' label
From: Bobert
Date: 11 Dec 08 - 08:20 PM

Well, if not czar then what??? Holy Moly, we need new words... There are millions of CEO's, Directors, coorinators, chiefs, etc....

Seein' as my bud, Genie, started this thread I move to let her come up with a new word...

Can I get a second???

B~

Subject: RE: BS: enough with the 'Czar' label
From: John O'L
Date: 11 Dec 08 - 08:21 PM

Looks like you've opened a can of worms here, Alice.

Are you ready for this?

Czargate.

Subject: RE: BS: enough with the 'Czar' label
From: Alice
Date: 11 Dec 08 - 08:34 PM

yup, I thought of the "...gate" think, too, but that does not bug me as much as "... Czar"!!! LOL

Subject: RE: BS: enough with the 'Czar' label
From: Alice
Date: 11 Dec 08 - 08:36 PM

No, we don't need a new word. That's the point.
"Director" is good enough.
... and Bobert, Genie didn't start the thread, I did.

Alice

Subject: RE: BS: enough with the 'Czar' label
From: pdq
Date: 11 Dec 08 - 08:39 PM

...I envision a new post for someone who oversees honey production: Bee Czar

Subject: RE: BS: enough with the 'Czar' label
From: Bobert
Date: 11 Dec 08 - 08:49 PM

Okay, Alice, then you get to come up with the....drumbeat...

...new word 'cause director is old, old, old and worn slam out...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: enough with the 'Czar' label
From: Alice
Date: 11 Dec 08 - 08:51 PM

Bobert, "Czar" is not a new word, either.

Subject: RE: BS: enough with the 'Czar' label
From: Bobert
Date: 11 Dec 08 - 09:05 PM

No, Alice, but it's got more kick to it than "Director, CEO, Chief, etc"... I mean, we have run outta words that truely represent the seriousness of the job at hand... Even "President" is lame... So we need a whole bunch of new words... "Czar" still has a little--- okay, vey little--- sharpness to it...

There are 1,312,672 "Directors" in American today... We need a change...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: enough with the 'Czar' label
From: Alice
Date: 11 Dec 08 - 09:35 PM

But Czar is not the appropriate word to describe a public servant position in the USA. And why would you say we need to change the word just because there are other people called directors. That doesn't make sense.

Subject: RE: BS: enough with the 'Czar' label
From: Alice
Date: 11 Dec 08 - 09:38 PM

here are a few ideas from the Thesaurus

Drug Governor
Drug Boss
Drug Chief
... and Drug Skipper (which just makes me think of Gilligan)

Subject: RE: BS: enough with the 'Czar' label
From: Alice
Date: 11 Dec 08 - 09:41 PM

It sounds like you expect the title to have to be "jazzed up".
I don't think it does. It's a job. We just need someone to do it.
The so called Drug Czars and Energy Czars so far have been failures. The Czar title did nothing productive.

Subject: RE: BS: enough with the 'Czar' label
From: Bill D
Date: 11 Dec 08 - 10:41 PM

I don't think "Czar" is the official title of any job.....it's just media shorthand. You really want to take on the **MEDIA** about altering one of their prized phrases?

Subject: RE: BS: enough with the 'Czar' label
From: catspaw49
Date: 11 Dec 08 - 10:48 PM

I want to oversee and test all the premium quality beef and be called the "Steak Czar-Czar".............................okay, I'm going.....Stop throwing things..............

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: enough with the 'Czar' label
From: MarkS
Date: 11 Dec 08 - 11:48 PM

"Commissar" might be more appropriate.

Subject: RE: BS: enough with the 'Czar' label
From: John on the Sunset Coast
Date: 11 Dec 08 - 11:54 PM

Czar is appropriate, because once the government gives them power they can do nearly any damn thing they want to with impunity (and later, immunity?).

Subject: RE: BS: enough with the 'Czar' label
From: Gurney
Date: 12 Dec 08 - 12:20 AM

Czar, Tsar, Tzar. They could ring the changes.

Subject: RE: BS: enough with the 'Czar' label
From: Genie
Date: 12 Dec 08 - 12:34 AM

Maybe we could appoint someone to be in charge of that Indian clarified butter. Someone old enough to have decades of experience.

He'd be our "Ghee Czar."

Genie

Subject: RE: BS: enough with the 'Czar' label
From: Genie
Date: 12 Dec 08 - 12:40 AM

Bobert, "There are 1,312,672 "Directors" in American today... We need a change..."

I'll bet we have that many with the title of "Chairman." Same for "President."

OK, how about:

Drug Head Honcho

Big Druk Muki Muk

Main Drug Dude

Drug Overseer

Drug Emir

Chief Drug Drudge

Subject: RE: BS: enough with the 'Czar' label
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Dec 08 - 03:33 AM

Chez Czar

Subject: RE: BS: enough with the 'Czar' label
From: Darowyn
Date: 12 Dec 08 - 03:54 AM

You won't find many terms older than Czar. It's derived from Caius Julius, known as "Haircut" or Caesar. (probably pronounced Kaisar)
He did pretty well in miltiary politics and his heirs and sucessors adopted his name with the result that it came to mean Emperor.
The dominance of the Roman Empires passed the term to many other cultures, Via Greece to Russia, as 'Czar'. Via the Holy Roman Empire to Germany as 'Kaiser'. The Islamic ruler of what is now Turkey and the Balkans called himself 'Kaizar y Rhum"-Emperor of Rome.
"Emperor", by the way comes from 'Imperator'- General, a title bestowed on a victorious commander by his surviving troops (happy at having survived). The traditional title for a ruler of many lands would be 'King of Kings' or 'High King'.
Given all of this, it is clear that many of these titles would be unconstitutional in the USA, or treasonable in the UK.
But the title of "The High King of Cars" or the "King of Drugs Kings" would look pretty impressive on your CV.
Cheers
Dave

Subject: RE: BS: enough with the 'Czar' label
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 12 Dec 08 - 06:40 AM

Fuhrer...

Subject: RE: BS: enough with the 'Czar' label
From: Bobert
Date: 12 Dec 08 - 08:24 AM

Genie,

I like "Dude"... Okay, it has some mileage on it but "Car Dude" has a nice ring to it... "Drug Dude" needs some work, however... But then again, "Health Dude" sounds cool and does "Energy Dude"""... Hey, how 'bout this one... "Defense Dude"???

"Fuhrer" ain't gonna work, McGee... Ain't ccol at all...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: enough with the 'Czar' label
From: Genie
Date: 13 Dec 08 - 02:20 AM

Yeah, Bobert, "Führer" prolly wouldn't go over well with many people, but I'm not sure its connotations are way worse than "czar."   I mean, if we're going for rhymes or alliteration, not to mention elevating our bureaucrats to kingly status, why stop with "Car Czar?
Why not add some of these?

Finance Führer
Truk Muki Muk (I tried to post Big Drug Muki Muk above but I misspelled Drug.)
Energy Emperor
Kindergarten Khan
Bomb Bastard
Health Honcho
Gun Shogun
Interior Inquisitor
Transportation
Highway
Rail Rajah
Il Duce Of Defense (or Defense Dictator)
Airline Autocrat
Education Earl
Poverty Poobah

Subject: RE: BS: enough with the 'Czar' label
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 13 Dec 08 - 09:12 AM

I assume it comes from newspapers wanting a nice short word. "Boss" would allowed that, but I suppose it's got associations with private criminal activities as well as big business, whereas "Czar" just has historical with analogous activities carried out by the State.

"Chief" seems a pretty obvious substitute which has pretty neutral associations.

Subject: RE: BS: enough with the 'Czar' label
From: Alice
Date: 13 Dec 08 - 10:22 AM

Well, we could be like Bush with his "decider" and call it the

Car Fixer
Drug Fixer
Energy Fixer

I still think "Director" is best, but Chief is not as bad as czar.

Subject: RE: BS: enough with the 'Czar' label
From: Genie
Date: 15 Dec 08 - 02:52 PM

or just the "Drug Decider" --

except that we don't, or at least aren't supposed to, have any one "decider" in our country.   Decisions are supposed to involve the legislature, the executive, and when necessary the judicial branches of government (with, supposedly, the 'press' watching all those folks to keep them honest).

In reality, positions like "drug czar" or "car czar" in other democracies would probably just be called "drug Minister" or "Automotive Minister" (though I think it's important that our "Secretary Of Transportation" oversees more than just car and truck transportation).

By looking for "czars" are we basically asking for more autocrats whose decisions can supersede those of Congress and the President and cabinet "Secretaries?"

Subject: RE: BS: enough with the 'Czar' label
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 15 Dec 08 - 04:21 PM

"Commissar" is really the most historically appropriate term. Or I suppose its American English version, "Commissioner". But they are both too long to be convenient for headlines.

Perhaps Roma titles could be brought in - "Prefect" or "Tribune" come to mind.

Or maybe "Monitor"...

Subject: RE: BS: enough with the 'Czar' label
From: Ebbie
Date: 15 Dec 08 - 04:42 PM

"Perhaps Roma titles could be brought in - "Prefect" or "Tribune" come to mind." McGrath

Good grief- for an instant I read that as 'Teribus'.



As bb said above, I have heard it as 'AUTO-Crat' (Pronounced in the German way).

Subject: RE: BS: enough with the 'Czar' label
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 15 Dec 08 - 05:47 PM

"Fixer" would be quite good.

Subject: RE: BS: enough with the 'Czar' label
From: Genie
Date: 15 Dec 08 - 05:47 PM

McGrath: ""Commissar" is really the most historically appropriate term. Or I suppose its American English version, "Commissioner". But they are both too long to be convenient for headlines."
So now we're letting the media's convenience dictate how we characterize and think about the people's representatives in our democracy?

Subject: RE: BS: enough with the 'Czar' label
From: Seamus Kennedy
Date: 15 Dec 08 - 06:16 PM

Il capo di tutti capi di cari.

If this goes on much longer we'll have a 'czargate' scandal on our hands.

Subject: RE: BS: enough with the 'Czar' label
From: Genie
Date: 15 Dec 08 - 08:26 PM

Rap, a catchy phrase does not "good" journalism make.

Subject: RE: BS: enough with the 'Czar' label
From: Bobert
Date: 15 Dec 08 - 08:36 PM

I also like "fixer"... Says what 'sposed to happen...

BTW, pot is like $75 a quarter... That's way too much and it needs a fixin'...

B;~)

Subject: RE: BS: enough with the 'Czar' label
From: Alice
Date: 15 Dec 08 - 08:55 PM

If it needs to be short, let's just use "Chief".

The definition fits the job, and we already have it in common use in America.... Chief of Police, Commander in Chief, Chief of Staff, Chief Executive Officer, Editor in Chief, etc.

Alice

Subject: RE: BS: enough with the 'Czar' label
From: Genie
Date: 15 Dec 08 - 09:10 PM

"Chief" wouldn't be too bad.   I mean they play "Hail to The Chief" for the President.   

But why is it that nobody seems to find the word "President" or the term "Secretary Of State" too long and cumbersome, yet somehow "Automotive Minister" is?

Subject: RE: BS: enough with the 'Czar' label
From: Rowan
Date: 15 Dec 08 - 10:36 PM

I do like Bruce's "CarCsar = Autocrat" and, while McGrath's "Monitor" has promise, to those of us in Oz it's really just a bloody great lizard; usually a goanna.

But it has occurred to me that the credit crisis meltdown, with all those businesses knocked for sixes and sevens, that the wally in charge of regulating all that failed bizz should, properly, be called Bizzarre.

Cheers, Rowan

Subject: RE: BS: enough with the 'Czar' label
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 16 Dec 08 - 01:08 AM

Czar is appropriate, given where we are going. It comes from the word 'Caesar', which of course is from the Roman empire...BTW..did you know the words 'Third Reich' literally means 'Third Roman Empire'?..Bet a lot of you astute scholars of history didn't know that, did you? Look it up. I hope it help explains where we are headed....Kumbayah!

Subject: RE: BS: enough with the 'Czar' label
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 16 Dec 08 - 01:43 PM

"Monitor" has promise, to those of us in Oz it's really just a bloody great lizard; usually a goanna.

Just the job, in other words.