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Lyr Req: Dominion of the Sword (Martin Carthy)

DigiTrad:
SCARECROW


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In Mudcat MIDIs:
Ballet (in Jacob van Eyk's Der Fluyten Lust-Hof, Amsterdam, 1654, II, 41v, where it was called Ballet ancestral to Love Lies a Bleeding/Dominion of the Sword)


Ed Pellow 11 Jul 99 - 01:53 PM
11 Jul 99 - 04:32 PM
11 Jul 99 - 05:20 PM
Susanne (skw) 11 Jul 99 - 06:23 PM
AndyG 12 Jul 99 - 09:02 AM
Ed Pellow 13 Jul 99 - 06:42 PM
GUEST 18 May 02 - 01:55 AM
Paul Mitchell 18 May 02 - 04:30 AM
michaelr 19 May 02 - 03:17 AM
Malcolm Douglas 19 May 02 - 10:31 AM
GUEST 19 May 02 - 11:34 AM
GUEST,www.geocities.com/carthy_online 01 Oct 04 - 10:41 AM
Jim Dixon 04 Oct 04 - 10:54 PM
Chris Green 05 Oct 04 - 06:53 AM
GUEST,Emily Forster 22 Apr 05 - 11:58 AM
GUEST 30 Aug 05 - 09:53 AM
Susanne (skw) 30 Aug 05 - 07:12 PM
GUEST,dan mat 29 Mar 07 - 08:13 AM
GUEST,danmat 29 Mar 07 - 08:14 AM
Susanne (skw) 31 Mar 07 - 05:01 PM
CharlieA 22 May 07 - 06:20 AM
GUEST 26 Apr 09 - 10:44 AM
The Sandman 27 Apr 09 - 10:45 AM
Susanne (skw) 29 Apr 09 - 06:28 PM
irishenglish 29 Apr 09 - 09:41 PM
GUEST,Kev Boyd 06 Jul 09 - 07:17 AM
GUEST,Woof 10 Mar 12 - 03:24 PM
Kev Boyd 11 Mar 12 - 07:45 PM
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Subject: Martin Carthy's 'Dominion of the Sword' query
From: Ed Pellow
Date: 11 Jul 99 - 01:53 PM

I've been trying to work out the lyrics to 'Dominion of the Sword' from Martin Carthy's 'Right of Passage' album. I think that I've got most of them but am still baffled in a couple of places. Can anyone help?

DOMINION OF THE SWORD

Lay by your pleading, law[?] lies a-bleeding
Burn all your studies down, and throw away your reading
Small by the word as[??], and can afford us
Not half as much privilege as the sword does

It'll the foster the master, plaster disaster
This'll make a servant quickly greater than the master
Ventures, enters, seeks and it centres
Ever the upper hand, never a dissenter

Kruger, Krugerand-a, wither do you wander?
Gone to the subording of Hastings Banda
Kruger, Krugerand-a, tear you all asunder
?????????????????????????????????

Talks of small things, it sets up all things
This'll master money, the money masters all things
It is not season to talk of reason
Never call it loyal when the sword says treason

Calm for the worrier, the whaler, the furrier
This'll get the measure of a Rainbow Warrior
Incognito, come and sink a Rainbow
President will never know, where's your bloody cocoa [???]

Subtle deceiver, turns calm to fever
See the pilgrim feign the unbeliever
It'll make a lay man, preach and to pray man
It'll make a Lord of him that was but a drayman

Conquers the crown too, pray for the gown [?] too
Set you up a province, but it'll pull it down too
No gospel can guide it, no law decide it
In church or state, 'til the sword sanctifies it

Take books, rent 'em, who can invent 'em?
When that the sword says there'll be no argumentum
Blood that is spilt sir, has gained all the guilt, sir
Thus have you seen me run my sword up to the hilt, sir


Thanks for any help

Ed

ed.pellow@virgin.net


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Subject: RE: Martin Carthy's 'Dominion of the Sword' query
From:
Date: 11 Jul 99 - 04:32 PM

The original of 1659 is reprinted in Roxburghe Ballads, VIII, p. clxxxi*. See ZN1612 in the Broadside ballad index at www.erols.com/olsonw, the tune being B274 in the broadside ballad tunes there.


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Subject: RE: Martin Carthy's 'Dominion of the Sword' query
From:
Date: 11 Jul 99 - 05:20 PM

Entitled "The Power of the Sword" it's also in 'Rump Songs', I, p. 333, 1662 (reprinted c 1874).


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Subject: RE: Martin Carthy's 'Dominion of the Sword' query
From: Susanne (skw)
Date: 11 Jul 99 - 06:23 PM

I've strained my ears, but four run-throughs wouldn't come up with more than the following. Hoping for more improvements ...

Lay by your pleading, law[?] lies a-bleeding [that's what I hear, too]
Burn all your studies down, and throw away your reading
Small by the word as[??], and can afford us [???]
Not half as much privilege as the sword does

It'll the foster the master, plaster disaster
This'll make a servant quickly greater than the master
Ventures, enters, seeks and it centres
Ever the upper hand, never a dissenter

Kruger, Krugerand-a, wither do you wander? [Kruger-rander? from the coin?]
Gone to the subording of Hastings Banda [suborning?]
Kruger, Krugerand-a, tear you all asunder
????????????????????????????????? [Beirut? to Luanda, Gabarone? to Nyanga - the two names without ? are definite, I think. Nyanga figures in Hamish Henderson's 'Freedom Come All Ye']

Talks of small things, it sets up all things
This'll master money, the money masters all things
It is not season to talk of reason
Never call it loyal when the sword says treason

Calm for the worrier, the whaler, the furrier [warrior]
This'll get the measure of a Rainbow Warrior
Incognito, come and sink a Rainbow
President will never know, where's your bloody cocoa [???] [rush a? Makes no sense either way!]

Subtle deceiver, turns calm to fever
See the pilgrim feign (?) the unbeliever [flay?]
It'll make a layman preach and to pray man
It'll make a Lord of him that was but a drayman

Conquers the crown too, pray for the gown [?] too [that's what I hear, too]
Set you up a province, but it'll pull it down too
No gospel can guide it, no law decide it
In church or state, 'til the sword sanctifies it [sanctified?]

Take books, rent 'em, who can invent 'em?
When that the sword says there'll be no argumentum
Blood that is spilt sir, has gained all the guilt, sir
Thus have you seen me run my sword up to the hilt, sir

These are the sleevenotes, but I'm afraid they don't help me for one very much. Maybe someone else has come across that anthology?

[1988:] A long time ago I came across this song in a Penguin anthology of War Poetry, and the longer I have known it the better it's got. It was written in 1649 by an anonymous pamphleteer and with the removal of verses or lines particular to that time becomes a rejection of the propaganda lie currently being touted for all it's worth (again) that violence or the threat of it will get you nowhere. The tune is adapted from a Breton pipe tune called Ar Ch'akouz (The Leper). (Notes Martin Carthy, 'Right of Passage')


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Subject: RE: Martin Carthy's 'Dominion of the Sword' query
From: AndyG
Date: 12 Jul 99 - 09:02 AM

I'll have to listen to the CD tonight to get a more definite idea but I'm sure the line:
"President will never know, where's your bloody cocoa"
should be
"President will never know, I should bloody ko-ko!"

I should ko-ko is an english idiom meaning, very roughly, Not if I can help it

AndyG


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Subject: Lyr Add: DOMINION OF THE SWORD (from Martin Carthy
From: Ed Pellow
Date: 13 Jul 99 - 06:42 PM

Thanks to everyone who replied either here or sent an email.

I'm fairly certain that I now have the correct version. Would I need to send this separately to be included in the next release of the DT database, or do the compilers read all this stuff?

Anyway, for anyone interested, here it is:

DOMINION OF THE SWORD

Lay by your pleading, law lies a-bleeding
Burn all your studies down, and throw away your reading
Small power the word has, and can afford us
Not half as much privilege as the sword does

It'll the foster the master, plaster disaster
This'll make a servant quickly greater than the master
Ventures, enters, seeks and it centres
Ever the upper hand, never a dissenter

Kruger, Krugerrand-a, wither do you wander?
Gone to the suborning of Hastings Banda
Kruger, Krugerrand-a, tear you all asunder
Beira to Luanda, Gabarone to Nyanga

Talks of small things, it sets up all things
This'll master money, though money masters all things
It is not season to talk of reason
Never call it loyal when the sword says treason

Calm for the worrier, the whaler, the furrier
This'll get the measure of a Rainbow Warrior
Incognito, come and sink a Rainbow
President will never know, I should bloody coco

Subtle deceiver, turns calm to fever
See the pilgrim flay the unbeliever
It'll make a lay man, preach and to pray man
It'll make a Lord of him that was but a drayman

Conquers the crown too, grave and the gown too
Set you up a province, but it'll pull it down too
No gospel can guide it, no law decide it
In church or state, 'til the sword sanctifies it

Take books, rent 'em, who can invent 'em?
When that the sword says there'll be no argumentum
Blood that is spilt sir, has gained all the guilt, sir
Thus have you seen me run my sword up to the hilt, sir

Thanks again to all who helped

Ed
ed.pellow@virgin.net

HTML line breaks added. --JoeClone, 12-Feb-03.


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Subject: RE: Martin Carthy's 'Dominion of the Sword' query
From: GUEST
Date: 18 May 02 - 01:55 AM

This should be 'seagulled' for the database


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Subject: RE: Martin Carthy's 'Dominion of the Sword' query
From: Paul Mitchell
Date: 18 May 02 - 04:30 AM

The "president will never know, I should bloody ko-ko" is, I think, taken as a reference to the French govt. sinking of the Rainbow Worrior.

Now... just to push this a little...

How do you play the damn thing? Are there other recordinghs somewhere, other than Carthy's scary "G Tuning". Any help gratefull received.


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Subject: RE: Martin Carthy's 'Dominion of the Sword' query
From: michaelr
Date: 19 May 02 - 03:17 AM

Krugerrands? Rainbow Warrior? This song is from 1649???


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Subject: Lyr Add: THE DOMINION OF THE SWORD (1686 version)
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 19 May 02 - 10:31 AM

Martin updated the original song, of course; a version of that original can be seen in the e-text version of Charles MacKay's Cavalier Songs and Ballads of England from 1642 to 1684 (1863): The Dominion Of The Sword. I quote it below:

^^ THE DOMINION OF THE SWORD

(From The Loyal Garland, 1686. To the tune of Love lies a bleeding.)

Lay by your pleading,
Law lies a bleeding;
Burn all your studies down, and
Throw away your reading.

Small pow'r the word has,
And can afford us
Not half so much privilege as
The sword does.

It fosters your masters,
It plaisters disasters,
It makes the servants quickly greater
Than their masters.

It venters, it enters,
It seeks and it centers,
It makes a 'prentice free in spite
Of his indentures.

It talks of small things,
But it sets up all things;
This masters money, though money
Masters all things.

It is not season
To talk of reason,
Nor call it loyalty, when the sword
Will have it treason.

It conquers the crown, too,
The grave and the gown, too,
First it sets up a presbyter, and
Then it pulls him down too.

This subtle disaster
Turns bonnet to beaver;
Down goes a bishop, sirs, and up
Starts a weaver.

This makes a layman
To preach and to pray, man;
And makes a lord of him that
Was but a drayman.

Far from the gulpit
Of Saxby's pulpit,
This brought an Hebrew ironmonger
To the pulpit.

Such pitiful things be
More happy than kings be;
They get the upper hand of Thimblebee
And Slingsbee.

No gospel can guide it,
No law can decide it,
In Church or State, till the sword
Has sanctified it.

Down goes your law-tricks,
Far from the matricks,
Sprung up holy Hewson's power,
And pull'd down St Patrick's.

This sword it prevails, too,
So highly in Wales, too,
Shenkin ap Powel swears
"Cots-splutterer nails, too."

In Scotland this faster
Did make such disaster,
That they sent their money back
For which they sold their master.

It batter'd their Gunkirk,
And so it did their Spainkirk,
That he is fled, and swears the devil
Is in Dunkirk.

He that can tower,
Or he that is lower,
Would be judged a fool to put
Away his power.

Take books and rent 'em,
Who can invent 'em,
When that the sword replies,
NEGATUR ARGUMENTUM.

Your brave college-butlers
Must stoop to the sutlers;
There's ne'er a library
Like to the cutlers'.

The blood that was spilt, sir,
Hath gain'd all the gilt, sir;
Thus have you seen me run my
Sword up to the hilt, sir.

Claude M. Simpson (The British Broadside Ballad and Its Music, 1966), notes:

"The original ballad sung to the tune is Love Lies a Bleeding, beginning "Lay by your pleading/Love lies a bleeding", to the tune The Cyclops... This is an attack on the Puritans, written c.1653-1654, as a result of which the tune became "political" and was used with no other sort of ballad.

Law lies a Bleeding, 1659, beginning "Lay by your Pleading,/Law lies a bleeding", to the tune of Love lies a bleeding (Wood 401; reprinted in Roxburghe Ballads VIII, clxxi*; see also xxxvi8), is an imitation and continuation of the original ballad, introducing current topical detail.

A manuscript version of words and music, under the title The Dominion of the Sword, and dated August 2, 1658, is reported by Thorn-Drury (see Brooks, Rump Songs: an Index, notes 121, 21). The reprint in Merry Drollery, 1661, is titled The Power of the Sword. The ballad is also found in BM MS Harl. 3991, fol. 51v, in Rump, 1662, in A Loyal Garland, 1686, and in Loyal Songs, 1731. It is printed with the music in Pills To Purge Melancholy, 1719-1720, VI, 190."

Text not available
Wit and mirth: or, Pills to purge melancholy being a collection of the best merry ballads and songs, old and new. Fitted to all humours, having each their proper tune for either voice, or instrument: most of the songs being new set... London, Printed by W. Pearson for J. Tonson, 1719-20 By Henry Playford

Wood, above, refers to the ballad collection of Anthony Wood (1632-1695), which is now at the Bodleian Library. The broadside referred to can be seen at  Bodleian Library Broadsides:

Law lies a bleeding ("Lay by your pleading ...") To the tune of: Love lies a bleeding   London, Printed Anno Domini. 1659.  It differs in some particulars of wording from the later example given above.

Simpson gives the tune in two forms; its earliest appearance in print, in Jacob van Eyk's Der Fluyten Lust-Hof, Amsterdam, 1654, II, 41v, where it was called Ballet; and from a supplement to Playford's Dancing Master (c.1662), where it was called Dours Catastrophe; in the supplement to the edition of 1665, it had also acquired the title Lawyers leave your Pleading, and by the edition of 1686 it was called Love lies a bleeding.

Midis of both examples can be heard, until they get to the  Mudcat Midi Pages,  via the  South Riding Folk Network  site:

Ballet (midi)
Dours Catastrophe (midi)

In both cases I have omitted the repeats indicated, which are necessary for dancing but presumably were not used for the song.


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Subject: RE: Martin Carthy's 'Dominion of the Sword' query
From: GUEST
Date: 19 May 02 - 11:34 AM

Many thanks for your scholarship, Malcolm.

Very interesting and much appreciated.


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Subject: Lyr Add: DOMINION OF THE SWORD (Martin Carthy)
From: GUEST,www.geocities.com/carthy_online
Date: 01 Oct 04 - 10:41 AM

Garry Gillard's brilliant Carthy/Watersons site (https://mainlynorfolk.info/watersons) has the following transcript. Apart from the line "Beira to Luanda, Gabarone to Nyanga" - for which I'll take Garry's word as I've never been able to figure it out even after listening to two studio and numerous live versions - this transcript looks pretty much perfect to me.

Lay by your pleading, law lies a-bleeding
Burn all your studies down, and throw away your reading
Small power the word has, and can afford us
Not half so much privilege as the sword does

It'll the foster the master, plaster disaster
This'll make a servant quickly greater than the master
Ventures, enters, seeks and it centres
Ever the upper hand, never a dissenter

Kruger, Krugerrand-a, whither do you wander?
Gone to the suborning of Hastings Banda
Kruger, Krugerrand-a, tear you all asunder
Beira to Luanda, Gabarone to Nyanga

Talks of small things, it sets up all things
This'll master money, though money masters all things
It is not season to talk of reason
Never call it loyal when the sword says treason

Calm for the worrier, the whaler, the furrier
This'll get the measure of a Rainbow Warrior
Incognito, come and sink a Rainbow
President will never know, I should bloody coco

Subtle deceiver, turns calm to fever
See the pilgrim flay the unbeliever
It'll make a lay man, preach and to pray man
It'll make a Lord of him that was but a drayman

Conquers the crown too, grave and the gown too
Set you up a province, but it'll pull it down too
No gospel can guide it, no law decide it
In church or state, 'til the sword sanctified it

Take books, rent 'em, who can invent 'em?
When that the sword says there'll be no argumentum
Blood that is spilt sir, has gained all the guilt, sir
Thus have you seen me run my sword up to the hilt sir


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Martin Carthy's 'Dominion of the Sword'
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 04 Oct 04 - 10:54 PM

Beira = town in Mozambique
Luanda = town and province in Angola
Gaborone = town in Botswana
Nyanga = province in Gabon; also Zimbabwe

... but why he chose those particular places, I haven't a clue.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Martin Carthy's 'Dominion of the Sword'
From: Chris Green
Date: 05 Oct 04 - 06:53 AM

I assume it's to do with the white mercenaries fighting in Africa during the 60's and effecting "regime change", as it's now called, for the highest bidder.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Martin Carthy's 'Dominion of the Sword'
From: GUEST,Emily Forster
Date: 22 Apr 05 - 11:58 AM

Just wanted to say I'm hugely relieved to find the words to this - I've been trying to work out some of the minor details for ages and didn't think to look on the net!


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Dominion of the Sword (Martin Carthy)
From: GUEST
Date: 30 Aug 05 - 09:53 AM

What a relief to find other Carthy-heads! I 've been trying to work this one out for bloody ages!!


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Dominion of the Sword (Martin Carthy)
From: Susanne (skw)
Date: 30 Aug 05 - 07:12 PM

Guest, try this: Martin Carthy. It'll keep you busy for a long time ...


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Dominion of the Sword (Martin Carthy)
From: GUEST,dan mat
Date: 29 Mar 07 - 08:13 AM

I should bloody cocoa
and
see the pilgrim flay the unbeliever...

Does this help???


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Dominion of the Sword (Martin Carthy)
From: GUEST,danmat
Date: 29 Mar 07 - 08:14 AM

Oh yeah , and...
floor lies a-bleeding (ie dripping in blood)???


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Dominion of the Sword (Martin Carthy)
From: Susanne (skw)
Date: 31 Mar 07 - 05:01 PM

Guest, I'd still vote for 'law' (as a victim of the war). 'Floor' doesn't make much sense to me, even with your ingenious explanation. Thank you all the same for your input.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Dominion of the Sword (Martin Carthy)
From: CharlieA
Date: 22 May 07 - 06:20 AM

Hi there,

Does anyone have the chords for this?

Thanks

Cxxx


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Dominion of the Sword (Martin Carthy)
From: GUEST
Date: 26 Apr 09 - 10:44 AM

Thanks for the interest. Just thought I'd add that the first word in the first line in verse five is 'Balm' and not 'Calm'. Didn't realise that my diction was so rubbish back then. Hope it's better now..... Martin C


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Dominion of the Sword (Martin Carthy)
From: The Sandman
Date: 27 Apr 09 - 10:45 AM

Martin Carthy,Iwould say generally speaking your diction is very good.Dick Miles


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Dominion of the Sword (Martin Carthy)
From: Susanne (skw)
Date: 29 Apr 09 - 06:28 PM

Thanks for the correction, Martin! It's probably got much less to do with your diction than with both the medium used and the listener's linguistic ability.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Dominion of the Sword (Martin Carthy)
From: irishenglish
Date: 29 Apr 09 - 09:41 PM

God I love Mudcat at moments like this-Martin Carthy himself! As Wayne and Garth used to say, We're not worthy!


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Dominion of the Sword (Martin Carthy)
From: GUEST,Kev Boyd
Date: 06 Jul 09 - 07:17 AM

Call me cynical (and you wouldn't be the first), but I somehow don't think that 26 April GUEST post was actually from Mr Carthy.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Dominion of the Sword (Martin Carthy)
From: GUEST,Woof
Date: 10 Mar 12 - 03:24 PM

"Conquers the Crown too, grave and the gown too" doesn't really work -- the sword/might of arms doesn't exactly conquer death itself, and 'grave' for 'gravitas' is too ambiguous. 'Grave and the gowned' to cover academia etc is nearer working but too forced.

It works a lot better the way I've always heard it: "Conquers the Crown too, craven the gown too," which is terse enough to go with the style and sets up the power of the court vs scholars/academia.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Dominion of the Sword (Martin Carthy)
From: Kev Boyd
Date: 11 Mar 12 - 07:45 PM

Except, Woof, that Malcolm has already quoted the original text from which Martin adapted his version here and the "grave and the gown too" bit is there intact in the seventh verse.


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