BS: Mudcat can save your life !

Subject: BS: Mudcat can save your life !
From: Eric the Viking
Date: 18 Jul 09 - 06:24 AM

It has never suprised me that the depth of knowledge and width of experience held on mudcat is phenominal. But today while browsing this thread, "Non-alcoholic alternatives to beer"
I found a potential life saver. I've been on statins for a long time since I was diagnosed with polycycstic kidney disease in 92. As the disease has progressed my blood pressure has been controlled well with drugs.I NEVER knew that grapefruit juice held such a danger for people on certain types of drugs.

Girl Friday. Thankyou for that little sentence you wrote about grapefruit juice. I did some checking, and as someone who really loves grapefruit but on an occasional basis, I am now aware of the potential danger. You really could be a life saver.

Any other potential but serious life savers out there?

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat can save your life !
From: GUEST,Lizzie Cornish
Date: 18 Jul 09 - 06:57 AM

You need to be extremely careful what kind of vegetables you eat, if you're taking Warfarin.

I look after an elderly couple once a week and Eric became very ill, when his Warfarin control went completely OUT of control. He'd been eating cauliflower, spinach, cabbage etc, which no-one had told him is out of bounds if you take that drug. Basically, *any* vegetables which contain large amounts of Vitamin K have to be avoided at all costs.

He's now fighting fit again...and eating brocoli. :0)

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat can save your life !
From: catspaw49
Date: 18 Jul 09 - 08:02 AM

Whoa up Lizzie........not true.

The part that's wrong is "avoided at all costs." What is very important is that you eat ANY food in moderation and be reasonably consistent. If you do, you will be okay with Warfarin. If you're prone to go on some spinach binge or whatever, either get that desire under control or avoid the stuff. Consistency is really the key.

You need to have your INR checked at least monthly and more often than that if you are out of limits. Karen and I have both been on the damn stuff for 10 years now, me for A-Fib and the artificial mitral valve and Karen for a clotting disorder which resulted in pulmonary embolisms.

AND.....So much is made of the "Coumadin Killers".....all the Vitamin K foods that we often forget the foods that actually enhance the thinning effect. A teaspoon of horseradish will take me from 3.0 where I try to stay to well over 4. So I really do try to avoid it even though I love it. I pigged out once on Shrimp with loads of a really great cocktail sauce one time without thinking about it and a few days later I happened to be at my anti-coag clinic appointment and registered a whopping 4.6.......not good. Garlic, cranberries.....there's a long list here as well.

And don't forget to keep an eye on the supplements taken as many multi-vitamins contain K as well as supplement nutrition drinks that are popular with many of the elderly. There are a number of sites that list food and other substances that affect clotting or your testing facility can provde one.

Consistency and moderation.

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat can save your life !
From: heric
Date: 18 Jul 09 - 12:23 PM

Well, crap. As a pomegranate juice addict, I looked and see it has the same issue with statins as does grapefruit.

"Pomegranate juice and grapefuit juice, are both known to block the cytochrome P450 3A4 enzyme systems in the intestines. By inhibiting these enzymes, the juices (may) increase blood levels of many medications."

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat can save your life !
From: katlaughing
Date: 18 Jul 09 - 12:50 PM

Good that you noticed that, Eric!

Like Spaw, I am on warfarin and have been told to keep everything in moderation and, if I want to have spinach or other things with a lot of Vitamin K, just to be consistent so they can adjust the dosage to keep my INR within desirable limits, in my case, anything between 2.0-3.0.

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat can save your life !
From: Zen
Date: 18 Jul 09 - 01:03 PM

Hi Eric,

Yes I'm on statins too (simvastatin) and was warned about the problems with grapefruit and pomegranate by the pharmacist (not my doctor). Oil of Bergamot (e.g. as in Earl Grey Tea) should be avoided too. I think it's somewhat remiss that some of these drugs are prescribed without pointing out these warnings so I always check everything myself as well now, as well as asking, if I'm prescribed something unfamiliar.

All the best,

Richard

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat can save your life !
From: Eric the Viking
Date: 18 Jul 09 - 02:05 PM

Damm !! I luv Earl Grey tea too. (Dawn drinks much more than me) Thanks Richard. I'm sure that there are a few more no-no's. I hope that chocolate NEVER gets on the list.

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat can save your life !
From: Smokey.
Date: 18 Jul 09 - 02:19 PM

I take Simvastatin, and whilst the accompanying information leaflet says to avoid grapefruit juice "as this can increase your risk of muscle damage", it says nothing about anything else mentioned here. Thanks for the information.

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat can save your life !
From: gnu
Date: 18 Jul 09 - 02:47 PM

Apparently, my heart is okay. I just piled a cord of hardwood in the garage at about 28C and it was raining outside and inside! I haven't sweated like that for a long while.

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat can save your life !
From: heric
Date: 18 Jul 09 - 02:51 PM

I've been taking huge (1g) simvastatin pills and drinking (lots of) pomegranate both at the same time of day EVERY day. Thank you GF and Erik.

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat can save your life !
From: Bill D
Date: 18 Jul 09 - 02:59 PM

We didn't need Mudcat at the time, because Johns Hopkins cardiology made sure my wife knew that grapefruit juice was not safe after her heart transplant. It altered the absorption rate of her anti-rejection drug....but if you read Mudcat regularly, you learn many, many useful things.....everything except what 'folk' is.

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat can save your life !
From: GUEST,flyingcat(moira)
Date: 18 Jul 09 - 03:02 PM

oil of bergamot is also a photosensitiser(Reacts to UV radiation) and should be taken in moderation by people on certain diuretics which are also photosensitisers. The active ingredient is a chemical called psoralen which is also in parsley,figs, limes and earl grey tea. Not to be avoided necessarily but taken in moderation. Moira

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat can save your life !
From: heric
Date: 18 Jul 09 - 03:18 PM

I won't bore you with the details - but this is going to change everything. I don't usually worry about this stuff- the muscular damage is "rare," e.g., but not only do I take niacin and other triglycerides meds (my Harvard cardiologist describes it as his "full arsenal"), but I have multiple symptoms I never clued into - including unexplained muscle pain, joint pain, unexplained numbness, unexplained bleeding, and three more you don't wanna know.

sheesh. diet and exercise must I really? Guess so.

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat can save your life !
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 18 Jul 09 - 04:03 PM

"Whoa up Lizzie........not true."

Thanks for pointing that out, Spaw. I'll tell Eric, and no doubt it'll bring a smile to his face.

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat can save your life !
From: katlaughing
Date: 18 Jul 09 - 04:46 PM

...diet and exercise must I really I know, it's the pits!:-)

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat can save your life !
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 18 Jul 09 - 04:59 PM

but if you read Mudcat regularly, you learn many, many useful things.....everything except what 'folk' is.

Everybody knows that "folk" is what horses don't sing!

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat can save your life !
From: Bill D
Date: 18 Jul 09 - 05:08 PM

ahhhh...yes, of course!

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat can save your life !
From: catspaw49
Date: 18 Jul 09 - 05:46 PM

12 years now and I do miss grapefruit.............I used to eat the daylights out of the stuff and unless you've already GOT heart trouble, its heart healthy!

Many foods and supplements can cause problems with prescription meds and if you research it yourself you'll have a better feel for just how dangerous something is. For instance, pomegranate is much lower on the list and in moderation might be okay for some.

I take 9 different prescription meds so I did lots of my own research as well as listening to my former doc......who I was forced to leave (insurance). Karen and I are now doing interviews with several different docs as the guy that replaced ours in that practice made loud noises like a duck.


Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat can save your life !
From: katlaughing
Date: 19 Jul 09 - 12:02 AM

There's a pomegranate soda from Italy that I like; doesn't seem to cause any problems, though I don't drink it very often and I think it's mostly sugar.:-()

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat can save your life !
From: heric
Date: 19 Jul 09 - 01:14 AM

Na I literally swill all those pills down with 6 or 7 oz. of pure pomegranate evrey night. Maybe I can switch the statins to the morning, but I'll have to ask Dr. Harvard.

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat can save your life !
From: Zen
Date: 19 Jul 09 - 06:52 AM

Hi Heric,

Grapefruit is the biggest no-no with statins so, as Spaw said, best is to check with your specialist doctor about any particular interactions of your specific meds with pomegranate. Could be that changing the time you take the meds/juice might be judicious, as you said.

I take five different meds everyday including for high blood pressure and type two diabetes (I don't have high cholesterol but the practice here in Scotland is to prescribe statins anyway for diabetics) so checking interactions between each of the meds and between them and foods/drinks becomes quite a palaver. Doctors are not always the best at advising about this so I do my own research as well like Spaw.

Zen

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat can save your life !
From: open mike
Date: 20 Jul 09 - 01:27 AM

for warfarin, coumadin users, there are vitamin K in sea weed as well,
so beware of sushi.

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat can save your life !
From: Dorothy Parshall
Date: 20 Jul 09 - 10:21 AM

http://www.holisticonline.com/Herbal-Med/hol_herb_med_reac.htm

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat can save your life !
From: Dorothy Parshall
Date: 20 Jul 09 - 10:22 AM

http://www.itmonline.org/arts/herbdrug2.htm

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat can save your life !
From: Dorothy Parshall
Date: 20 Jul 09 - 10:23 AM

http://www.itmonline.org/arts/herbdrug2.htm

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat can save your life !
From: Dorothy Parshall
Date: 20 Jul 09 - 10:26 AM

http://www.med.umich.edu/1libr/aha/umherb01.htm

OK - that is the fourth of the four sites I found which tell of possible interactions - food, herb, drug. This is the best I could do with my "computer skills". Each is different and each has good information. Anyone who does herbs or pharmaceuticals needs them bookmarked.

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat can save your life !
From: catspaw49
Date: 24 Jul 09 - 02:03 AM

Dorothy......Thanks for the sites but let me help your computer skills a bit. Its easy to make your linked site a "HOT LINK".....commonly called on Mudcat, a "BLUE CLICKY."

Look down below the posting box and you'll see a phrase that says, "Make a link".......Click on it and THIS PAGE
will come up. Just as you copy and pasted the link into your post, NOW do it instead where it says "LINK URL".........Then, if you want your link to have some words like "Holistic Interaction Site" or whatever, put that in the box that says "Link Text(optional".....Next, click on "Create Link"......and it will!

You'll get a different page with an instruction to "Cut and paste this into your post".....Do so. You'll also notice that below the link you are to copy is a way to test to be sure its okay.

When you post, your new link will look like this......Holistic Link, aka Whatever---hahahahaha

Try if....Its easy and people will tend to read hot links whereas most won't bother withhout them. Course, some people don't read anything including the other posts on the thread they're posting to.....................

Spaw