BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 22 Jul 09 - 04:25 PM

Elzabeth Gates, a journalist at The Daily Beast, interviewed her father about this.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: GUEST,hg
Date: 22 Jul 09 - 04:34 PM

When I read they were going to "Martha's Vineyard" for a few days rest I became convinced this is more an issue of class than of race. But I hope his responses will enlighten the proletariat about their rights because it ain't gonna change the police.

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: GUEST,hg
Date: 22 Jul 09 - 04:49 PM

I always wondered who Stephen Ambrose fashioned his protagonist after. Now I suspect it was Dr. Gates. His twenty seven page CV on the Harvard website is impressive. But he hardly represents most black men I know who have been victims of racial profiling.

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: GUEST
Date: 22 Jul 09 - 05:02 PM

not Stephen Ambrose! can't rememeber his name damn

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: GUEST,hg
Date: 22 Jul 09 - 05:09 PM

Stephen L Carter The Emperor of Ocean Park

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 22 Jul 09 - 05:27 PM

Any police officer who fails to provide his number when requested, or who attempts to conceal it if he is wearing it, is out of line, and has a potentially serious attitude problem that urgently needs to be sorted out.

If it can't be sorted out so that it never happens again, dismissal is the only remaining option.

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: Bill D
Date: 22 Jul 09 - 05:44 PM

" In dealing with police it is wise to show some deference to their position whether they are acting correctly or not."
   Roger in Baltimore

Which reminds ME of the time I was with a group of young, black civil rights workers in Hattiesburg, Miss. in 1964. (voter registration drive) We were walking to a meeting about 8PM...dark outside... when a police car stopped and two officers decided to 'question' us.
One boy said to the group..."Keep walkin', we ain't done nothin'!"...but I had a feeling that was not a good idea. I said, "It's ok...we'll just answer their questions." (Note...I was the only white guy in the group, and had only been in town for 3-4 days, and had NO authority to tell the group to do or not do anything..)...but the cop said, "Yeah...you better talk to us...this heah's an in-ves-ti-gation. We had a lot of Nawthun agitators 'roun heah recently." (I think that's pretty close to an exact quote.)

Well, since we WERE going to a meeting, and were within two blocks of being there, there was not much 'in-ves-ti-gating' they could really do...all they wanted was to hassle us, and look for a reason to do more. After we explained where we were going, they sent us off with a grumpy 'warning' to "stay off the streets".

Now...what I left out was that when the police stopped, a tall, young white guy also got out of the police car, and just stood in the background while we were questioned. When I asked the guys later what he was doing there, they said."You mean you didn't GET that? He's a football player on the high school team! They don't want any more stories about police beating up 'agitators', so this kid tags along, and if there's a need, HE beats you up and the cops explain that 'this helpful citizen came to our aid when these 'trouble-makers' refused to cooperate with the police'."

Of course, that WAS the deep South in a different time...but the point is still there, as Roger points out. Some police are just hoping you'll give them some excuse to 'assert their authority', even if they know it will not come to much.

If Dr. Gates had been alone, and if the cops had not known the neighbor might still be watching, more 'might' have happened.

It all reminds me of the poem used as an epitaph...

"Here lies the body of Henry Gray,
Who died defending his right-of-way.
He was right- dead right- as he sped along,
But he's just as dead as if he'd been dead wrong."

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: meself
Date: 22 Jul 09 - 06:12 PM

And on a related subject ... how not to get your ass kicked by the police.

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: Kent Davis
Date: 22 Jul 09 - 10:15 PM

I understand Dr. Gates's grievance, but I don't see where racial profiling comes in.

Isn't racial profiling identifying a person as a suspect on the basis of race? No one even alleges that happened in this case.

However wrong the police may have been, they identified Dr. Gates as a suspect based on the fact that the house had been broken into, and on the fact that he was inside the house. Had he been black, white, green, or purple, that made him a suspect.

Sounds like the policeman over-reacted to Dr. Gates's behavior. If so, it was unprofessional. But where is the racial profiling? Gates was not suspected of disorderly conduct because of his race but because, well, because his conduct was disorderly. (Still sounds like a police over-reaction, but "profiling" is not a word that means "over-reaction")

Do we not have enough real racial profiling without mischaracterizing as racial profiling an incident that, however wrong it may have been, was clearly not that?

Kent

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: heric
Date: 22 Jul 09 - 10:51 PM

You can read about the incident in Dr. Gates' own words in his webzine The Root

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: Bill D
Date: 22 Jul 09 - 11:11 PM

There is also some more detail coming out about the officer's point of view and HIS opinion about the exact sequence of events. He claims that Gates escalated the situation by refusing to answer certain questions and by making claims about 'racism' as soon as the officer asked him to do certain things.
The officer says that he (the Officer) will never apologize for anything he did or said.

(and all this time, the woman who made the call was standing on the sidewalk, pointing at the house and saying "they're in there!")

My, it does get complicated....and 75% everyone seems to have made up their minds about who was at fault in the matter....

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 22 Jul 09 - 11:33 PM

Kent, he wouldn't have been hassled at all probably if he was white. That's why it's profiling. They assumed because he was black he must be guilty. And they meted out a little of their "cop justice" when he had the effrontery to find them contemptible.

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: beardedbruce
Date: 23 Jul 09 - 11:28 AM

and from the other side:

http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/articles/2009/07/23/officer_at_eye_of_storm_says_he_wont_apologize/?page=1


It becomes a whole lot harder to make blanket condemnations when you adtually listen to BOTH sides.

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: heric
Date: 23 Jul 09 - 11:31 AM

You can hear about the incident in Crowley's own words here

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: beardedbruce
Date: 23 Jul 09 - 11:34 AM

police report

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: pdq
Date: 23 Jul 09 - 11:48 AM

Officer in Henry Gates flap tried to save Reggie Lewis

Denies he's a racist, won't apologize

                                                                     article here


By Laurel J. Sweet, Marie Szaniszlo, Laura Crimaldi, Jessica Van Sack & Joe Dwinell  |   Thursday, July 23, 2009

The Cambridge cop prominent Harvard University professor Henry Louis Gates Jr. claims is a racist gave a dying Reggie Lewis mouth-to-mouth resuscitation in a desperate bid to save the Celtics superstar's life 16 years ago Monday.

"I wasn't working on Reggie Lewis the basketball star. I wasn't working on a black man. I was working on another human being," Sgt. James Crowley, in an exclusive interview with the Herald, said of the forward's fatal heart attack July 27, 1993, at age 27 during an off-season practice at Brandeis University, where Crowley was a campus police officer.

It's a date Crowley still can recite by rote - and he still recalls the pain he suffered when people back then questioned whether he had done enough to save the black athlete.

"Some people were saying 'There's the guy who killed Reggie Lewis' afterward. I was broken-hearted. I cried for many nights," he said.

Crowley, 42, said he's not a racist, despite how some have cast his actions in the Gates case. "Those who know me know I'm not," he said.

Yesterday, Lewis' widow, Donna Lewis, was floored to learn the embattled father of three on the thin blue line of a national debate on racism in America was the same man so determined to rescue her husband.

"That's incredible," Lewis, 44, exclaimed. "It's an unfortunate situation. Hopefully, it can resolve itself. The most important thing is peace."

Gates, 58, an acclaimed scholar on black history and a PBS documentarian, went on the attack against Crowley on Tuesday, demanding he apologize for arresting him for disorderly conduct last Thursday while investigating a reported break-in at his home. Gates, returning from a trip, was seen by a Malden woman trying to force his front door open. Police alleged he initially refused to identify himself.

Though he harbors no "ill feelings toward the professor," a calm, resolute Crowley said no mea culpa will be forthcoming.

"I just have nothing to apologize for," he said. "It will never happen."

Attorney Charles Ogletree, Gates' close friend and fellow Harvard savant, told the Herald, "It's regrettable and unfortunate that the officer feels that way, and I do hope that some progress will be made in healing this wound."

Gates, who upon his arrest allegedly bellowed to a gathering crowd on Ware Street, "This is what happens to black men in America!" believes he was targeted by Crowley - whom he called a "rogue" cop - because of his race.

Cambridge Police Commissioner Robert Haas, with Gates attorney Walter Prince's consent, agreed Tuesday to drop the charge of disorderly conduct, calling the incident "an unfortunate set of circumstances."

Crowley, an 11-year veteran of the force, oversees the evidence room, paid details and records unit. He also coaches youth basketball, baseball and softball.

Joseph McDonald, a former director of public safety at Brandeis, said Crowley was "a real pro," calling Gates' racial profiling charge "strange."

"You just do the job as a cop. You don't look at the color of skin. You're just trying to help people," said McDonald, 57.

In a statement expressing its "full and unqualified support" for Crowley, the Cambridge Police Superior Officers Association called its brother a "highly respected veteran supervisor with a distinguished record.

"His actions at the scene of this matter were consistent with his training, with the informed policies and practices of the department and with applicable legal standards."

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 23 Jul 09 - 02:30 PM

"Gates said he turned over his driver's license and Harvard ID — both with his photos — and repeatedly asked for the name and badge number of the officer, who refused."

Whether he's a racist or not, if it is true that he refused to let Gates have his name and badge number, how can he possibly refuse to apologise?

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: beardedbruce
Date: 23 Jul 09 - 02:35 PM

"if it is true that he refused to let Gates have his name and badge number, how can he possibly refuse to apologise? "

IF it was true, which the police reports indicates it is not.

So , no reason TO apologise.

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 23 Jul 09 - 03:02 PM

Well, I think the police should have dropped things once he provided identification.

I also think all of us, and I speak as a middle-aged (very) white woman..have to be prepared to deal with the police in a cooperative manner. I know it is hard for young men especially not to escalate things..which is why I think others must also be exposed to police interactions and treated the same..and where I live I was stopped by the police frequently because everyone is when driving...so I consider it my duty as a citizen to be polite etc. Otherwise, in the broader picture, you have police who will just give up, do the minimum, or get out of the business if they know they will be yelled at etc..and in a dangerous situation, they need to have immediate control. So for now I think our choice is do we want police protection or not..because it is very easy for them to not police certain neighborhoods properly, or not provide protection to certain ethnic groups properly if they know they will be yelled at etc...just don't bother...and this house had had a prior break-in.

So the police should have de-escalated the situation but it is up to all of us to decide if we want the other side of police protection, which is cooperative behavior on all of our accounts and not just the young men who are the usual partners in police interactions....a middle-aged scholarly man, an elderly nurse..we all need to cooperate and not get treated differently than the younger men. mg

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: heric
Date: 23 Jul 09 - 03:30 PM

Okay I'll express an opinion on the facts so far:

Gates' many friends describe him as easy-going, affable and witty. I can understand that Gates was sick and suffering jet lag at the time. I can't understand why he continues to be a drama queen. Now he's even drawn the President of the United States of America into his teacup without expressing remorse.

If the producers allow him to include his own story in his movie, it will certainly be a boring documentary.

If I were a victim of racial profiling I would be silently simmering at this narcissistic display.

When Obama invited open discussions about race relations in America I believe he had something much less trivial than this in mind.

Fact I'm most interested in now is whether witnesses in the front yard heard Sgt. Crowley twice advise Gates, in Chris Rock's vernacular, to shut the fuck up.

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: olddude
Date: 23 Jul 09 - 03:54 PM

I can only hope this is not the case. Dr. Gates is highly respected. I heard him lecture once and he is amazing to say the least. But he now has non stop national publicity all over the networks ... for free... not a bad thing when you write books and go on the lecture circuit ...

Gosh I sure hope it is not the case. Nothing however surprises me anymore from anyone. I only bring it up because I really do have no idea what really came down. But the officers record doesn't support racism to me at least from his past actions.   

It would be a horrible thing if it was done to get news ... I don't believe in my heart that is the case but one does have to think about it these days. I never thought a respected governor would try to sell a senate seat either ...

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: Peace
Date: 23 Jul 09 - 03:58 PM

I'd bet that if the officer and HLG were left alone over a beer or two they'd have it straight in ten minutes with no hard feelings either way. imo, ymmv.

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 23 Jul 09 - 04:01 PM

"IF it was true, which the police reports indicates it is not."

There's a claim by Crowley that he "began to" give his name, and at a later point, when asked again, he refused to give it, on the ground that he had already done so twice. Not very clear at all.

In any case surely the right word is not "indicates" but "asserts" - or strictly speaking "implies".

All in all, even from that report, it sounds like a thoroughly bungled little bit of police work. That's be so even if the question of whether racism was involved is set aside, or if Crowley can demonstrate that he deals with white people in the same way.

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: beardedbruce
Date: 23 Jul 09 - 04:03 PM

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2009/0723092gates2.html


http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2009/0723092gates3.html

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: beardedbruce
Date: 23 Jul 09 - 04:51 PM

"There's a claim by Crowley that he "began to" give his name, and at a later point, when asked again, he refused to give it, on the ground that he had already done so twice. Not very clear at all.
"


"He then demanded to know who I was. I told him I was "Sgt. Crowley from the Cambridge Police" and that I was "investigating a report of a break in progress" at the residence"



Seems clear to me. It sounds like Gates is lying, to me. But that is from one point of view- I'll wait to convict EITHER party when there is more information available. Unlike our president, who can make judgements without knowing the facts.

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: beardedbruce
Date: 23 Jul 09 - 05:01 PM

Cop who arrested black scholar is profiling expert

Jul 23 03:17 PM US/Eastern
By DENISE LAVOIE
Associated Press Writer

CAMBRIDGE, Mass. (AP) - The white police sergeant criticized by President Barack Obama for arresting black scholar Henry Louis Gates Jr. in his Massachusetts home is a police academy expert on racial profiling.

Cambridge Sgt. James Crowley has taught a class on racial profiling for five years at the Lowell Police Academy after being hand-picked for the job by former police Commissioner Ronny Watson, who is black, said Academy Director Thomas Fleming.

"I have nothing but the highest respect for him as a police officer. He is very professional and he is a good role model for the young recruits in the police academy," Fleming told The Associated Press on Thursday.

The course, called "Racial Profiling," teaches about different cultures that officers could encounter in their community "and how you don't want to single people out because of their ethnic background or the culture they come from," Fleming said.

Obama has said the Cambridge officers "acted stupidly" in arresting Gates last week when they responded to his house after a woman reported a suspected break-in.

Crowley, 42, has maintained he did nothing wrong and has refused to apologize, as Gates has demanded.

Crowley responded to Gates' home near Harvard University last week to investigate a report of a burglary and demanded Gates show him identification. Police say Gates at first refused, flew into a rage and accused the officer of racism.

Gates was charged with disorderly conduct. The charge was dropped Tuesday.

Gates' supporters maintain his arrest was a case of racial profiling. Officers were called to the home by a woman who said she saw "two black males with backpacks" trying to break in the front door. Gates has said he arrived home from an overseas trip and the door was jammed.

....

In radio interviews Thursday morning, Crowley maintained he followed procedure.

"I support the president of the United States 110 percent. I think he was way off base wading into a local issue without knowing all the facts as he himself stated before he made that comment," Crowley told WBZ-AM. "I guess a friend of mine would support my position, too."

Crowley did not immediately respond to messages left Thursday by the AP. The Cambridge police department scheduled a news conference for later Thursday.

....

Fellow officers, black and white, say Crowley is well-liked and respected on the force. Crowley was a campus police officer at Brandeis University in July 1993 when he administered CPR trying to save the life of former Boston Celtics player Reggie Lewis. Lewis, who was black, collapsed and died during an off-season workout.

.....

Police supporters charge that Gates, director of Harvard's W.E.B. Du Bois Institute for African and African American Research, was responsible for his own arrest by overreacting.




http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D99KBEAO1&show_article=1

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: beardedbruce
Date: 23 Jul 09 - 05:03 PM

Bill Cosby 'shocked' at Obama's statement on Harvard prof's arrest
By Jimmy Orr | 07.23.09

On a Boston radio program this morning, Bill Cosby suggested that President Obama spoke too soon on the controversial arrest of Harvard professor Henry Louis Gates.

"I've heard about five different reports [on the details of the arrest]," Cosby said on Boston's WZLX. "If I'm the president of the United States, I don't care how much pressure people want to put on it about race, I'm keeping my mouth shut."

"I was shocked to hear the president making this kind of statement," Cosby said referring to the president's remarks during last night's press conference.

The comedian appeared to have dialed his comments back a bit in a later interview on Boston's FOX 25 television station. Cosby cautioned those from coming up with their own conclusions, but gave the president some leeway.

"People who have not been there, people who don't know are beginning to have their own personal feelings, but they weren't there," Cosby said.

"Does this include the president?" asked the FOX25 reporter.

"It includes everybody," Cosby said. "[But] I would have to take into consideration that he lived in Cambridge for some time so he may know more than he's saying about situations of that sort," Cosby said.

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: Bill D
Date: 23 Jul 09 - 05:26 PM

If a famous, learned, respected black professor becomes upset and asserts racism as the cause of his upset, whether it's true or not, we have a major incident. 'Racism' is an attitude residing within a person, and not something that one usually determines from a couple minutes conversation.
Mr. Gates could have accused the officer of 'just being silly', or 'overdoing' the questioning...or he could have sighed and said,"Ok...here's all my ID...I really do live here. I need to get to bed now."
Instead, for whatever reason, he assumed that any white police officer that went further than he, Gates, thought was 'reasonable', was a stereotypical 'racist'. That officer seems to have quite an exemplary record in NOT behaving that way.
It may well be that the officer 'could' have handled it better, but we do NOT know the exact words, their order and the tone in which they were spoken by either man.

I just saw a TV interview with a black pundit who wrote:"Skip...you mouthed off, man." I suspect he did....for whatever reason....and cops tend to react when someone mouths off, even if the guy IS tired & upset. One other pundit's remark was "you have to respect the badge, if not the man".....that is what *I* referred to in my story about Mississippi.

   *I* think the officer & Gates owe each other an apology for not dealing with the situation as well as they could have.

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 23 Jul 09 - 05:30 PM

If a society requires that deference be shown to police even if they are doing wrong (that's "IF") then there is a profound sickness at the heart of that society.

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: beardedbruce
Date: 23 Jul 09 - 05:32 PM

And , if one believes the police report, what WRONG was the policeman doing???

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: Midchuck
Date: 23 Jul 09 - 05:32 PM

One thing's for sure.

One of the two principal parties is a racist.

Further deponent sayeth not.

Peter.

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: Bill D
Date: 23 Jul 09 - 05:44 PM

"If a society requires that deference be shown to police even if they are doing wrong..."

'Deference' may be the wrong word. How about 'compliance'? It is almost always best to cooperate with police at the time and complain later, once you have thought it over.

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: meself
Date: 23 Jul 09 - 05:48 PM

There are a couple of ways of looking at it, and they've been touched on by various posters. One is strictly legalistic: if the cop did not do everything by the book, and if Gates stayed entirely within his legal rights, then only the cop can be criticized. There is, however, a more "human" way of looking at it: if you can see past the uniform and the skin colours, what you get is an all-too-common type of human failure - that of two grown men unable to deal with a minor misunderstanding in a civil manner.

At this point, an exchange of apologies, as per Bill D, would do far more for race relations than continued posturing. (Maybe Obama, now that he has blundered into it, should invite them to the Oval Office for tea, then come out for a photo op with them all grinning and group-hugging.)

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 23 Jul 09 - 08:00 PM

"...that of two grown men unable to deal with a minor misunderstanding in a civil manner."

It may be fair enough to describe shouting as failing to deal with a misunderstanding in a civil manner. If this had turned into a shouting match both parties might reasonably be critiised in that way.

But slapping handcuffs on the other person and dragging them off to be locked up in a cell is something else. Just because you're a policeman doesn't give you the right to do that, unless you're living in a police state.

It is almost always best to cooperate with police at the time and complain later." It may be the safest option, but not necessarily the best. And sometimes it's not even the safest option.

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: DougR
Date: 23 Jul 09 - 08:39 PM

As I understand it, a neighbor of the professor called the police and reported there was a "break-in" in progress. A policeman responded to the call, and asked Mr. Gates to come outside. He refused and screamed at the policeman accusing him of racial profiling. He was not arrested for breaking and entering, he had already convinced the Sgt. that he was entering his own house. He was arrested for creating a disturbance.

It seems to me that Mr. Gates over reacted by deciding to play the race card. I think he owes the policeman an apology.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: Bill D
Date: 23 Jul 09 - 10:52 PM

"It may be the safest option, but not necessarily the best. And sometimes it's not even the safest option.

I did carefully insert the word 'almost'.....when I was typing, I went back did this for a reason.

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: heric
Date: 23 Jul 09 - 11:05 PM

It was Crowley who wanted to get out of there.

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: Kent Davis
Date: 23 Jul 09 - 11:32 PM

Stilly River Sage,

If I break into my own house and the police are called to investigate, are the police using sexual profiling? Are they assuming that, as a male, I must be guilty? Wouldn't they investigate if the breaker-in was a woman? Wouldn't they ask her for some evidence that it was indeed her house?

If I yell "sexism" at the investigating policewoman, and she charges me with disturbing the peace, she might be guilty of over-reacting, and she might even be guilty of over-reacting due to sexism. One thing of which she would not be guilty is sexual profiling.

Had she suspected me (on the basis of my gender) of something which she did not observe, she would be profiling. In this case, however, she didn't suspect that I was in the house, but rather she observed that I was in the house. She did not suspect that I yelled "sexism", but rather she observed that I yelled "sexism". Depending on how I had yelled, her response might be considered reasonable, or understandable, or lame, or ludicrous, or insane. But she did not suspect me of anything on the basis of my gender and therefore, however wrong-headed or even sexist she may be, she's not guilty of sexual profiling.   

I am not defending or condemning either Gates or the police officer. I don't know either of them and I wasn't there. My point is this: if everything Dr. Gates said was precisely accurate, and everything the policeman said was wrong, what occurred was not racial profiling. I do not doubt that racial profiling occurs.    This was not an example of it.

Kent

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: meself
Date: 23 Jul 09 - 11:34 PM

Well - why didn't he just leave, then? Couldn't he have just driven away and left Gates standing on his lawn? Or, for that matter, standing on the road yelling?

I've come around a little bit on this one - for a cop, slapping someone in handcuffs and tossing them in the can is an everyday occurence; for an honest citizen, I imagine it can be traumatic, and not easily sloughed off ....

(Of course, I know no more than anyone else here what actually happened.)

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: meself
Date: 23 Jul 09 - 11:45 PM

(My post was a response to heric's comment).

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: heric
Date: 23 Jul 09 - 11:49 PM

"Well - why didn't he just leave, then? Couldn't he have just driven away and left Gates standing on his lawn? Or, for that matter, standing on the road yelling? . . . (Of course, I know no more than anyone else here what actually happened.)"

I agree with you. That's not quite resolved. At least not for us as laypersons.

I still also wonder about Crowley's entry into the house. That doesn't seem to be part of Gates' objections at the time or in his later narrative.



"'Ok...here's all my ID...I really do live here. I need to get to bed now.'"      -Indeed.

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: meself
Date: 23 Jul 09 - 11:51 PM

Well - at least you and I know how to get along!

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: Riginslinger
Date: 24 Jul 09 - 12:58 AM

Obama would have looked better to have just stayed away from it.

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: GUEST,hg
Date: 24 Jul 09 - 08:10 AM

this from Mother Jones. Michael Mechanic says it all.



Senior Editor at Mother Jones

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: SINSULL
Date: 24 Jul 09 - 08:37 AM

Bill Cosby' comments are interetsing - he learned his lesson after he jumped into the Tawana Brawley mess with both feet and later regretted it.

A total aside: when I heard the President say that the police acted stupidly I was stunned and actually pleased. When was the last time you heard a politician give his honest opinion?
Of course, he will pay a heavy price for that remark.

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: beardedbruce
Date: 24 Jul 09 - 09:39 AM

Cop Who Arrested Gates Not Ruling Out Defamation Lawsuit
Case Heats Up As Police Organizations Criticize Obama For Jumping into the Controversy
By MICHELE MCPHEE, RUSSELL GOLDMAN and HUMA KHAN
July 24, 2009

The police sergeant who arrested Harvard University Professor Henry Louis Gates Jr. last week in his own home may be considering a defamation lawsuit against Gates who has implied his arrest was racially motivated.

Cambridge Police Sgt. James Crowley said President Obama was "way off" on his comments about the...
Cambridge Police Sgt. James Crowley said President Obama was "way off" on his comments about the arrest of Harvard University Professor Henry Louis Gates Jr. Obama told ABC News' Terry Moran in an exclusive Nightline interview that he thinks "cooler heads should have prevailed" in the case.
(AP Photos/Getty Images)Alan McDonald, who represents Sgt. James Crowley, said the veteran cop who teaches a racial profiling class for rookie police officers has not ruled out filing a defamation of character or libel lawsuit.

"He is exploring all of his options,'' McDonald told ABC News.

Though charges were dropped, Gates has loudly asserted his arrest was a result of racial profiling.

The arrest and subsequent storm of racially charged comments has enveloped the White House after President Obama said on Wednesday the Cambridge police acted "stupidly" in arresting his friend, Gates, who is a prominent black scholar.

Police organizations and others across the country are lashing out at Obama for calling out the Cambridge Police Department.

"It's not a case of racial profiling," said NPR analyst Juan Williams on "Good Morning America."

Williams made clear there are dangers when blacks are confronted by police. "As someone whose been stopped as a black men in America, I have a very deferential approach... It's just that cops can be very prickly, especially with a black guy."

But Williams said the president went "way too far" without seeing the police report and knowing all the specifics of the case, as Obama himself admitted.

"Now what he has to do is to walk it back, say he spoke out of turn here, and I was reacting to in support of a friend," Williams advised.

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: beardedbruce
Date: 24 Jul 09 - 09:41 AM

'Disgraceful': Cops Angry After Obama Slams Arrest of Black Scholar
Friday, July 24, 2009

BOSTON — Many police officers across the country have a message for President Barack Obama Get all the facts before criticizing one of our own. Obama's public criticism that Cambridge officers "acted stupidly" when they arrested black Harvard professor Henry Louis Gates Jr. could make it harder for police to work with people of color, some officers said Thursday.

It could even set back the progress in race relations that helped Obama become the nation's first African-American president, they said.

Click here for photos.

"What we don't need is public safety officials across the country second-guessing themselves," said David Holway, president of the International Brotherhood of Police Officers, which represents 15,000 public safety officials around the country. "The president's alienated public safety officers across the country with his comments."

The Cambridge Police Patrol Officer's Association president also strongly criticized the president's remarks in an interview with The Huffington Post.

"That was totally inappropriate. I am disgraced that he is our commander-in-chief," Stephen Killion said. "He smeared the good reputation of the hard-working men and women of the Cambridge Police Department. It was wrong to do. It was disgraceful," the web site quoted him as saying.

Gates was arrested July 16 by Sgt. James Crowley, who was first to respond to the home the renowned black scholar rents from Harvard, after a woman reported seeing two black men trying to force open the front door. Gates said he had to shove the door open because it was jammed.

He was charged with disorderly conduct after police said he yelled at the white officer, accused him of racial bias and refused to calm down after Crowley demanded Gates show him identification to prove he lived in the home. The charge was dropped Tuesday, but Gates has demanded an apology, calling his arrest a case of racial profiling.

Obama was asked about Gates' arrest at the end of a nationally televised news conference on health care Wednesday night and began his response by saying Gates was a friend and he didn't have all the facts.

"But I think it's fair to say, No. 1, any of us would be pretty angry," Obama said. "No. 2, that the Cambridge police acted stupidly in arresting somebody when there was already proof that they were in their own home. And No. 3 — what I think we know separate and apart from this incident — is that there is a long history in this country of African-Americans and Latinos being stopped by law enforcement disproportionately, and that's just a fact."

On Thursday, the White House tried to calm the hubbub over Obama's comments by saying Obama was not calling the officer stupid. Spokesman Robert Gibbs said Obama felt that "at a certain point the situation got far out of hand" at Gates' home.

Crowley said he still supports the president, who attended Harvard Law School in Cambridge and garnered 88 percent of the vote there in last year's presidential election.

"I think he was way off base wading into a local issue without knowing all the facts as he himself stated before he made that comment," Crowley told WBZ-AM.

Cambridge police Commissioner Robert Haas said Obama's comments hurt the agency.

"My reponse is that this department is deeply pained," Haas said at a news conference Thursday. "It takes its professional pride seriously."

Fellow law enforcement officers across the country sided with Crowley.

"To make the remark about 'stupidly' is maybe not the right adverb," said Santa Monica, Calif., police Sgt. Jay Trisler, who has been in law enforcement for 24 years. "When an incident occurs with a police department, we're not quick to judge."

He lamented negative opinions being directed at police.

"It's unfortunate because there are so many other police cases where an elected official has made a comment that wasn't correct, comments that could have been better worded," he said. "Look at Rodney King. It's a high-profile case, and everyone is entitled to an opinion."

Obama's comments could diminish work done by law enforcement to address racial issues, said James Preston, president of the Fraternal Order of Police Florida State Lodge.

"By reducing all contact between law enforcement and the public to the color of their skin or ethnicity is, in fact, counterproductive to improving relationships," Preston said. "To make such an off-handed comment about a subject without benefit of the facts, in such a public forum, hurts police/community relations and is a setback to all of the years of progress."

Other officers credited the president with using Gates' arrest to highlight the ongoing national problem of racial profiling.

"It wouldn't make any difference whether it was Barack Obama or John McCain. It's appropriate that the leader of this country should still recognize there are still issues in this country in regards to race," said Lt. Charles Wilson, chairman of the National Association of Black Law Enforcement Officers Inc. and a 38-year veteran of law enforcement. "This is an issue that occurs in every single place in this country, so it is not a local issue."

Trisler said Obama's remarks ultimately would not affect how police officers do their jobs. Police have weathered problems before — from the King beating to local corruption cases — and still find ways to work with their communities.

"I think police officers are going to be professional enough not to be affected by his comments," Trisler said. "Not even getting into the race issues, police officers are professional here in Santa Monica, regardless of when a comment comes from an elected official. We're going to do our job for the community."

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: beardedbruce
Date: 24 Jul 09 - 09:51 AM

(Rest of 09:39 posted article)

Some Question Whether Obama Should Have Strongly Backed Gates

Obama's remarks have stirred national debate over whether Gates' arrest was an issue of racial profiling, as he himself asserted.


President Obama's condemnation of a Cambridge, Mass., police officer who arrested Harvard professor Henry Louis Gates Jr. last week, came as a pleasant surprise to some African Americans who have sometimes been critical of the president for not saying enough about race relations in America.

Some say the president was right to bring up this discussion in a primetime speech.

"Have some people wanted him to bring this up sooner?" asked civil rights activist, the Rev. Al Sharpton. "Of course, we have. But the timing had to be right. He had the courage to take a position at a time when he knows some people will disagree."

"If he hadn't addressed it, it would have looked like he was ducking. I was surprised he said what he said, because his words brought the conversation to a new level," Sharpton said.

Although Obama has been vocal on past civil rights issues, he largely avoided race during the presidential campaign except for a singular speech he gave on the issue after his pastor was found to have made anti-American statements.

"No one wants to talk about race," said Donna Brazile, a Democratic strategist and ABC News consultant. "He [Obama] does not inject race into the conversation regularly because it clears the room. There are designated times, like Martin Luther King Jr. Day or when we have a large gathering of black folks, like at the NAACP recently, but that's about it."

"In this case, he was asked a question directly, and he answered it honestly," she added.


In addition to his specific comments about Gates' arrest, the president Wednesday also weighed in about the race issue, saying that while he didn't know whether it played a role, "I think we know separate and apart from this incident is that there's a long history in this country of African-Americans and Latinos being stopped by law enforcement disproportionately. That's just a fact."

Some observers questioned whether the president should have so strongly backed Gates, a longtime friend, over the police who arrested him without fully knowing exactly what took place between the professor and Crowley.

"Obama is the president for all American not just black Americans," said Democratic political strategist and ABC News consultant Donna Brazile. "He has enough on his plate as commander in chief – two wars, an economy in the tank – that he should not necessarily become the healer in chief."


http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/Story?id=8163051&page=1

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: Charley Noble
Date: 24 Jul 09 - 09:55 AM

This story is more grist for the mill for those who want the American people to focus on other problems than enacting comprehensive and affordable health care and restoring our economic viability, problems that divide us rather than programs that bring us together.

Obama usually demonstrates more political sense than to be drawn into such a potentially divisive dispute, even if it were the case of a respected colleague that he had known for a long time. But shame on the talk-show hosts and political pundits who are exploiting this sad incident.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: beardedbruce
Date: 24 Jul 09 - 10:07 AM

And as long as we get to hear from Gate's friends, like Obama, ...


"Friends defend officer who arrested black scholar
      
Denise Lavoie, Associated Press Writer – 1 hr 13 mins ago

CAMBRIDGE, Mass. – Supporters say the white policeman who arrested renowned black scholar Henry Louis Gates Jr. in his home is a principled police officer and family man who is being unfairly described as racist.

Friends and fellow officers — black and white — say Sgt. James Crowley, who was hand-picked by a black police commissioner to teach recruits about avoiding racial profiling, is calm and reliable.

"If people are looking for a guy who's abusive or arrogant, they got the wrong guy," said Andy Meyer of Natick, Mass., who has vacationed with Crowley, coached youth sports with him and is his teammate on a men's softball team. "This is not a racist, rogue cop."

Gates accused the 11-year department veteran of being an unyielding, race-baiting authoritarian after Crowley arrested and charged him with disorderly conduct last week.

Crowley confronted Gates in his home after a woman passing by summoned police for a possible burglary. The sergeant said he arrested Gates after the scholar repeatedly accused him of racism and made derogatory remarks about his mother, allegations the professor challenges. Gates has labeled Crowley a "rogue cop," demanded an apology and said he may sue the police department.

President Barack Obama elevated the dispute when he said Wednesday that Cambridge police "acted stupidly" during the encounter. Obama stepped back on Thursday, telling ABC News, "From what I can tell, the sergeant who was involved is an outstanding police officer, but my suspicion is probably that it would have been better if cooler heads had prevailed."

Crowley told a radio station Thursday that Obama went too far.

"I support the president of the United States 110 percent," he told WBZ-AM. "I think he was way off base wading into a local issue without knowing all the facts, as he himself stated before he made that comment."

Obama noted that he and Gates are friends, and the sergeant said: "I guess a friend of mine would support my position, too."

Crowley didn't immediately return a phone message left by The Associated Press on Thursday.

Cambridge Police Commissioner Robert Haas, in his first public comments on the arrest, said Thursday that Crowley was a decorated officer who followed procedure. The department is putting together an independent panel to review the arrest, but Haas said he did not think the whole story had been told.

"Sgt. Crowley is a stellar member of this department. I rely on his judgment every day," Haas said. "... I think he basically did the best in the situation that was presented to him."

But Massachusetts Gov. Deval Patrick, once the top civil rights official in the Clinton administration and now, like Obama, the first black to hold his job, labeled the arrest "every black man's nightmare."

The governor told reporters: "You ought to be able to raise your voice in your own house without risk of arrest."

Those who know the 42-year-old Crowley say he is committed to everyday interests like playing softball and coaching his children's youth teams.

"I would give him my daughter to coach in a blink of an eye, and I can't say any stronger opinion than that," said Dan Keefe, a town parks official who knows Crowley from his work coaching youth swim, softball, basketball and baseball teams.

Crowley grew up in Cambridge's Fresh Pond neighborhood and attended the city's racially diverse public schools. Two of his brothers also work for the police department and a third is a Middlesex County deputy sheriff.

For five of the past six years, Crowley has volunteered alongside a black colleague in teaching 60 cadets per year about how to avoid targeting suspects merely because of their race, and how to respond to an array of scenarios they might encounter on the beat. Thomas Fleming, director of the Lowell Police Academy, said Crowley was asked by former Cambridge police Commissioner Ronnie Watson, who is black, to be an instructor.

"I have nothing but the highest respect for him as a police officer. He is very professional and he is a good role model for the young recruits in the police academy," Fleming said.