BS: The BNP conundrum

Subject: RE: BS: The BNP conundrum
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 30 Sep 09 - 04:40 AM

One of the things that does tend to annoy me about people who do complain a lot about immigration, is when asked:

"How do immigrants affect your life negatively?" or,
"Where do you see all these immigrants?"

They have nothing to say.

For myself I just don't see them and they don't affect my life at all - apart from at a couple of car wash set-ups (which never existed before), and a small isle at the local Tesco.

There may well be certain areas or lower income groups, which *are* more affected than others. But when I've asked those people that *I know* who grumble about immigration the above kinds of questions, I've never had a satisfactory answer.

My conclusion is that the vast majority of people who complain about immigration, have never actually been affected by it at all.

Subject: RE: BS: The BNP conundrum
From: Royston
Date: 30 Sep 09 - 05:00 AM

Keith:

"1 There has been a drop in net immigration this year, probably due to recession so probably temporary

But that is the point Keith. Immigration mushroomed 1997-2007 because we were, rightly or wrongly - and gawd don't we know how wrongly now - we were in the middle of the strongest economic boom (bubble) in modern history.

We needed those workers and they came, worked and paid loads of tax. It was marvellous while it lasted. Are we still going too fast for you?

That's why, in the same period we got all those immigrants, the UK unemployment figures fell every year. Because we had the jobs. Companies went on recruitment drives in Eastern Europe because there weren't enough workers in this country to fill the lower-paid agricultural or industrial or services jobs.

With the recession, obviously, migrant workers are not coming here in the same numbers and a lot are going back home. I still don't understand why you are trying to claim there is a problem which, if it existed at all, is now correcting itself with the assistance of a new points-based set of controls.

When the recession ends then I'm sure that more migrants will apply to work here and they will be assessed and allowed in if we need them and we have the jobs for them. I just don't understand you Keith.

Keith, are you content that immigration is no longer proceeding at an unprecedented rate and that is is reducing?

Do you accept that the government has introduced, in 2008, a new system that screens work permit applications to ensure that people are needed here and that they will be contributors to our society.

I am not going to continue to debate 2007 or 2004 or 1950 figures with you. Let's talk about now, today. What concerns you now?

Subject: RE: BS: The BNP conundrum
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 30 Sep 09 - 05:39 AM

One thing at a time.
First Professor David Coleman
In this article we get his side of the story.
http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/article-23387534-hounding-of-the-don-who-dared-to-speak-out-on-migrants.do;jsessionid=9123FA5

Subject: RE: BS: The BNP conundrum
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 30 Sep 09 - 05:46 AM

Not such a monster, but a world class expert in migration.
I will not ignore Migration Watch just because of him.

Subject: RE: BS: The BNP conundrum
From: Royston
Date: 30 Sep 09 - 06:09 AM

Keith,

I said that Migration Watch does some useful research and provides some useful briefing papers.

I pointed out that, outside of their academic work, they tell lies and half truths, and I proved that assertion by comparing a part of their polemic to a matching part of their own academic work.

I pointed out, rightly, that their founder is a Eugenicist who believes in directing human evolution by limiting the 'lower' races.

I pointed out, quite rightly, that you need to know the agenda of a person or of a group so that you can keep an accurate perspective and judgement about what they say.

Basically, you need to learn to recognise facts from opinions or polemic; because the three are blended together on the Migration Watch website.

Subject: RE: BS: The BNP conundrum
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 30 Sep 09 - 06:53 AM

And immigration is not now "unprecedented" - thank you for the retraction.

As of the last statistics it was still falling.

For what it's worth I have a number of clients who are either immigrants or born here to immigrant parents, and they seem just fine to me - and mostly integrated with UK foibles to the extent at least of giving alcoholic presents even though teetotal themselves for religious reasons.

Subject: RE: BS: The BNP conundrum
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 30 Sep 09 - 07:50 AM

Royston,
"I pointed out, rightly, that their founder is a Eugenicist who believes in directing human evolution by limiting the 'lower' races."

No he does not.
Why do you say that?
Beware of not hearing the message because you are prejudiced against the messenger.

Subject: RE: BS: The BNP conundrum
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 30 Sep 09 - 07:51 AM

Richard, you sound surprised that they are nice people.
What did you expect?

Subject: RE: BS: The BNP conundrum
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 30 Sep 09 - 08:36 AM

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1544898/Academic-hits-back-in-migration-row.html
This is a better piece and written by Coleman himself.
He is Professor of Demography at Oxford.
He answers all that stuff about eugenics, and some views on immigration that Royston would find challenging.
Here is his academic profile.
http://www.spsw.ox.ac.uk/staff/academic/profile/details/coleman.html
Not a man whose views can be dismissed.

Subject: RE: BS: The BNP conundrum
From: Royston
Date: 30 Sep 09 - 08:38 AM

Look I've been really patient but I don't think Keith is worth the effort.

Does anyone else think that I am being impatient with him?

Does anyone I think I need to explain in more detail why a life long member and a present fellow of the 'Galton Society' (renamed in 1988 from the 'Eugenics Society' whose founder was ) can be accurately described as an Eugenicist?

Does anyone else think I need to explain, rather than point Keith to an encyclopaedia, that Eugenics is the belief that human evolution can and should be directed by controlling 'less worthy' populations and races?

Does anyone else think that a group founded by a Eugenicist should have its opinions (not 'facts, just its opinions) questioned somewhat, rather than just taken as some kind of truth?

Does anyone think Keith will ever join in a conversation about present day immigration issues and concerns? I see no evidence of this being likely.

Subject: RE: BS: The BNP conundrum
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 30 Sep 09 - 08:50 AM

So you have not read linked pieces then.

Subject: RE: BS: The BNP conundrum
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 30 Sep 09 - 08:53 AM

Here is the relevant extract for you, but you should read it all.
I am much more puzzled about the fuss relating to my life Fellowship of the Galton Institute, formerly the Eugenics Society.

I find it difficult to believe that those behind the petition know anything about 'eugenics', or about the Institute or about me.

I suppose 'eugenics', a rather retro word little used nowadays, remains a boo-word for those looking for Dr Mengele under the bed.

Indeed I have come across 'Eugenics watch' on the web, which I commend to all afficionados of paranoia.

In it Dr Mengele features prominently. The Galton Institute does not do 'research on eugenics' and neither do I.

Four substantial demographic publications edited by me, with others, have appeared under its aegis, mostly published by Academic Press and Macmillan.

The pre-war British eugenics 'movement' was innocent of Continental excesses, although like many 'meritocratic' ideas it was afflicted by the simple-minded understanding of heredity at that time.

The Institute aims to promote knowledge of human heredity, discussion of its moral and ethical aspects and its consequences for human well-being. The academic distinction of its Council will be evident from a glance at its website http://www.galtoninstitute.org.uk/.

Subject: RE: BS: The BNP conundrum
From: Royston
Date: 30 Sep 09 - 09:12 AM

This is my last attempt with you Keith.

I have read them.

Facts are facts.

Conclusions and opinions even if based on facts, are also influenced by beliefs. That silly true for me, you and Coleman.

Motivation; why someone does something like say found an anti-immigration pressure group, is totally a product of beliefs and values.

I did not say coleman should be disregarded, I said that you have to put his opinions in the context of his beliefs and the same for his motivations.

If you can't grasp that concept then you will always be someone else's sock-puppet.

Subject: RE: BS: The BNP conundrum
From: Royston
Date: 30 Sep 09 - 09:16 AM

ugh, typing on a blackberry.

In my last post I didn't want to say

'that silly true...'

I wanted to say

'that is true...'

Subject: RE: BS: The BNP conundrum
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 30 Sep 09 - 09:20 AM

Do not give up Royston.
I think that we are getting closer to some kind of co existance, though we will never agree.

You said,
"I said that you have to put his opinions in the context of his beliefs and the same for his motivations. "

I agree and I do.
Also yours.

No need to avoid an interesting site just because of Coleman's involvement. You agreed that there is not a racist statement on it anywhere.

Subject: RE: BS: The BNP conundrum
From: theleveller
Date: 30 Sep 09 - 09:26 AM

"For myself I just don't see them and they don't affect my life at all"

Well, all I can say is thank god for Polish plumbers and electricians - they don't yet seem to have mastered the British tradesman's art of teeth-sucking and prevarication.

Subject: RE: BS: The BNP conundrum
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 30 Sep 09 - 10:29 AM

No, Keith, not surprised at all. Merely responding to posts above, and in such response pointing out happy integration, and the fact that in my experience the potential discriminees who I knew did not seek to insist on imposing their religious or cultural values on me.

Guest Steve - my tax returns are done every year, and are none of your business - or were you trying (incorrectly) to announce that you knew my age or to threaten me (pointlessly) with being reported to HM Revenue and Customs?

Subject: RE: BS: The BNP conundrum
From: ButterandCheese
Date: 30 Sep 09 - 12:32 PM

GUEST_Steve, your comment might have more credibility if you were to join Mudcat as a member. Though, as Richard says, his and anyones financial business is none of your business...

Subject: RE: BS: The BNP conundrum
From: jeddy
Date: 30 Sep 09 - 01:34 PM

in rural derbyshire we are not exactly surrounded by immigrants here.
our kick arse doctor is indian, and our wonderful dentist is irish.
and of course we also have the carwashers at tescos. but that is about it.

i have a story to tell you all...a few years ago the doorbell buzzed.
i opened it and got a card pushed towards me, this card said hello, i am polish and cannot speak english, i have to admit that was as far as i got. he was selling the most wonderful drawings door to door.   at first my reaction was to buy one, but thinking about it, decided that if we did, he might be round every day, so said no.

he left. no hassle, no drama.

but as we turned to come back upstairs( we live in bed) it occurred to us that maybe we should tell the authorities that he was doing door to door, in case something happened to an elderly person.

we didn't in the end, but the fact we thought of it in the first place worries me.

would we have thought that if it was an english person going door to door?......the answer.. i think we wouldn't and i am ashamed to say it.
unless of course the person looked very dodgy.

so there is my confession.

take care all

jade x x x x x

Subject: RE: BS: The BNP conundrum
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 30 Sep 09 - 02:46 PM

I know the feeling Jade.
Almost certainly as innocent as can be, but whatever the nationality a stranger is a stranger.

Richard, so you expected us to be surprised that they were nice!

I must ask you, why did you ask me if I respected anyone because they were British?
Was it a cunning cross-examination to expose me if I was BNP?
Hint 1. I could have lied.
Hint 2. Even BNP don't respect everyone who is British. They have been disrespectful on this thread even.
Are you really a lawyer Richard?

Subject: RE: BS: The BNP conundrum
From: Fred McCormick
Date: 30 Sep 09 - 03:00 PM

Jade, You were quite right to be careful. Could be that, had said person spoke, it might have been with a broad Derbyshire accent.

Here's a story of my own. About a year ago I too answered the door. Caller handed me a card saying she was dumb and could't speak, but would I like to buy one of her drawings ? This was on Merseyside, BTW.

I didn't buy one but I had no reason to believe that she was anything but genuine. However, I'm now wondering if there's a factory somewhere printing drawings for people to hawk from door to door, claiming they've drawn them. But why the silence gag?

Subject: RE: BS: The BNP conundrum
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 30 Sep 09 - 03:28 PM

Or possibly to ask you to deny the principal plank of the BNP troll's thrust.

I suppose rather than find the post yourself, you want me to find the post I was responding to.

You are so silly.

Fred - yes there are and the silence is so that questions cannot be asked - well, not to get replies to.

Subject: RE: BS: The BNP conundrum
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 30 Sep 09 - 03:46 PM

I think I have found the principal plank Richard.

Subject: RE: BS: The BNP conundrum
From: ButterandCheese
Date: 30 Sep 09 - 04:14 PM

Fred it's not the pictures the factory prints it's those litte cards, the one the so-called hearing impaired person hands to you...it's so easy to get hold of a batch of the cards it's not funny, so, yes beware anyone like that when the come a'knockin'

Subject: RE: BS: The BNP conundrum
From: jeddy
Date: 30 Sep 09 - 04:51 PM

ah this one was hand written, i think.

it never occured to me that it could be a scam, we have to be so careful now,though ihate being suspsious of anyone.

my last thought on the subject of immirgation.

has anyone ever known the gangs that go round frightening people to consist of migrants? i haven't.

all the trouble on the streets that i am aware of is locals.

example. in bulwell in nottingham, when someone has set fire to something they have to send two fire engines to the scene.
one to tackle the blaze while the other one looks after the first engine. otherwise the smartarse little shits have a crack at the engine that could one day save their lives.

although these gangs of kids include all colours, it is mainly kids that have been brought up here.

just an observation

take care all

jade x x x x

Subject: RE: BS: The BNP conundrum
From: Lox
Date: 30 Sep 09 - 07:46 PM

Hey - if you like the pictures and you want some then buy them.

If you don't then don't.

The whole point of such schemes is that they are about the disabled being enterprising and empowering themselves.

If it's a "scam" then you've bought a card you like - if you don't like it then you shouldn't have bought it.

It's no big deal

Subject: RE: BS: The BNP conundrum
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 01 Oct 09 - 03:11 AM

Royston said,
"Does anyone think Keith will ever join in a conversation about present day immigration issues and concerns? I see no evidence of this being likely. "

Now that we have all calmed down, I think perhaps we should try.
A non racist discussion for and against balanced migration

Since the level of "debate" here may have driven away many members who would find that interesting, I propose to start a new thread.

Anyone unhappy with that?
keith.

Subject: RE: BS: The BNP conundrum
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 01 Oct 09 - 04:43 AM

That might be appropriate Kieth, as I think the broader 'immigration' question is a Red Herring on what is supposedly a thread about the BNP.

I think what this thread has reminded me, is the fact that the BNP *rather than* simply proposing greater restrictions on economic migration - on the grounds of it having a negative social and economic impact on the UK's poorer communities (in fact I'd still quite like to know more about this: if it's true, and if so - how it aught to be addressed politically) - are actually proposing restricting migration from specific races who they deem to 'pollute the pure English ethnic stock'.

Simply put, they only really give a crap about the colour of people's skin in the UK. And want to return that colour to pre-40's Britain by keeping out Brown people from elsewhere (all the "honourable" working-class loyalty stuff, is bullshit intended to garner votes), turfing out Brown people from elsewhere who've already settled here, and (I believe) STERILISING those Brown children born here of mixed race parentage that they can't just turf out.

These two matters, while both broadly relating to immigration, are actually quite utterly different and need strictly extricating from each other, for the broader voting public. And, the *exclusively racial agenda* of the immigration policies (which is simply another manifestation of their racial purity policies) of the BNP is something that possibly needs to be brought home far more clearly to potential BNP supporters, who might otherwise be swayed by social and economic anxieties during an economic crisis.

Subject: RE: BS: The BNP conundrum
From: Bryn Pugh
Date: 01 Oct 09 - 04:49 AM

"Who watches Migration Watch ?"

Quis custodiet ipsos custodientes ?

To whom it might concern : Richard Bridge is indeed a Lawyer, and quite an eminent one at that.

Subject: RE: BS: The BNP conundrum
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 01 Oct 09 - 05:01 AM

Ah, Bryn, once upon a time...

But thank you.

Subject: RE: BS: The BNP conundrum
From: Fred McCormick
Date: 01 Oct 09 - 05:22 AM

Richard Bridge. I suspect you're right. If you can't speak you can't answer awkward questions, like 'what inspired you to draw this one'.

"Fred - yes there are and the silence is so that questions cannot be asked - well, not to get replies to."

Subject: RE: BS: The BNP conundrum
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 01 Oct 09 - 05:25 AM

From the BNP website. They don't come large enough for Nick Griffin I see.



"Overwhelming popular demand has forced Excalibur to re-introduce the famous 'It's Cool to be White' T-shirts.

Available in short and long sleeve versions, these fun T-shirts featuring a Polar Bear transmitting a humourous — but important message — were highly popular when first launched nearly five years ago by Excalibur.

Stocks eventually ran out and the T-shirt was not reprinted, with other designs taking precedence. However, continuing inquiries and demand from all over the world has now reached a point where the design has been brought back to life.

The T-shirt joins the more than 40 other designs which are stocked by Excalibur and can be ordered online by clicking here. Sizes available: S, M, L, XL, XXL."

Subject: RE: BS: The BNP conundrum
From: Owen Woodson
Date: 01 Oct 09 - 06:29 AM

Richard, I expect you qualify for the XXL size, although I can't imagine anyone ever persuading you to wear one.

Here's a nice bit of spin, which you as a lawyer might appreciate. An 82 year old man has just been brought up before the courts, charged with damaging 10 cars over a two week period. All the cars belonged to local Muslims, yet this person claims that his actions were not anti-Islamic. Yet strangely enough, this creep is on the BNP membership list.

Subject: RE: BS: The BNP conundrum
From: jeddy
Date: 01 Oct 09 - 08:21 AM

crow sister makes a good point, i don't think the BNP would be that bothered by poles coming over to work, but black or brown people we certainly don't want.

i am not sure how greeks and italians would fit into their sterotypes as they are often darker without being black.

what she has reminded us, is that the immigration policies of the BNP are likey to be based soley on colour not skills.
we have been trying to look at this subject with facts and common sense. LOL that is so where the BNP are coming from!!!!!!

the sterilization of the 'mongrel' people is one of great concern. how on earth can they think that is going to happen, but then look what hitler accomplished.

it is one thing to say lets send them all home, it strikes a chord with all those who have been frightened by the immigration lies.
but another entirely when it comes to people who have every right to be here.
of course half caste people would only be the begining of horror, the starting point.

disabled.
gay.
single mothers.
fat.
anyone who speaks out.


we could all be in trouble.
have i missed anyone out who could be on the extinstiction list?

take care all

jade x x x x

Subject: RE: BS: The BNP conundrum
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 01 Oct 09 - 08:35 AM

If fatties *do* eventually end up on the list, then folkies really need to watch it!

I can't remember the precise genetic qualifications necessary to be "White" enough to allow you into mix with the pure Aryan breeding stock, but I don't Eastern Europeans are included.

On a slightly ironic tangent, anyone recall Hitlers (I think secret) programme of grabbing blue-eyed blonde Polish children in order to improve the idealised Aryan *appearance* of Germany though?

Subject: RE: BS: The BNP conundrum
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 01 Oct 09 - 09:13 AM

I've just realised that virtually no-one I know is ethnically "English".

I'm half Irish, my partner's half Scottish, best friend is half Russian Jew (as is another friend), Mothers long term partner was half German and part Indian, Fathers partner a mix of Black & Irish, another friend half Greek. There probably are a couple of people close to me that have no 1st or 2nd generation non-English genetic stock, but they would definitely be in the minority.

Subject: RE: BS: The BNP conundrum
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 01 Oct 09 - 09:32 AM

3XL I need, and Barden probably 4XL - and FaF don't sell them that big!

I've never bothered to check (it really doesn't matter that much, I think) but AFAIK I'm several generations English on both sides.   Other people used to tell my father that he looked Jewish but he used to say not and it never mattered enough to me to check, but his mother's maiden name was Brain and she and her sisters were Alice Maud and Grace. I suppose Brain could have been an Anglicisation of Braun.

Quid me anxius sum?

Subject: RE: BS: The BNP conundrum
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 01 Oct 09 - 10:34 AM

"I'm several generations English on both sides."

We too have tales of strange little villages rather like that out on the muddy peninsulas of East-Anglia.. The sort of places they still have annual "cat stoning" holidays for all the err "family" (there's only the one).

Subject: RE: BS: The BNP conundrum
From: jeddy
Date: 01 Oct 09 - 10:51 AM

i think there was a programme where hitler kidnapped children.

they measured every aspect of the kids including the space between eyes and nose.

my facts actually come from a programme, waking the dead. where they look into cold cases.

aparently when they were satisfied that the children were superior in every way, they would adopt them out to couples. i maybe wrong but i think the whole 'family' were then used to go undercover.

that is if the historians on the programme were right.
there was even a book that was covered in human skin!!!!!

some might say we are overreacting to the threat of the BNP but we have to remember who their role model is and the ideals and atrocities he brought forth.

on that cheery note.

take care all

jade x x x x

Subject: RE: BS: The BNP conundrum
From: jeddy
Date: 01 Oct 09 - 10:53 AM

PS before anyone says it, yes i am well aware that the programme if fiction. however as in alot of fictious prgrammes alot of the history or medical stuff is based in fact.

j x x x x

Subject: RE: BS: The BNP conundrum
From: Azizi
Date: 01 Oct 09 - 11:16 AM

It certainly may be "cool" to be White, but using the polar bear implies that Whites are cold and not cool.

Besides the word "cool" (when used to mean "hip"* has its roots in African & African American colloquial expressive speech.

But I suppose the BNP doesn't mind using African & African American culture when it suits that group to do so.

* Ditto for the word "hip".

Subject: RE: BS: The BNP conundrum
From: ButterandCheese
Date: 01 Oct 09 - 12:07 PM

Hitler's Children

Subject: RE: BS: The BNP conundrum
From: Royston
Date: 01 Oct 09 - 02:00 PM

The programme you're talking about Jeddy seems to have been based quite accurately on Himmler's Lebensborn project. I referred to it earlier in this thread.

For an overview you could look HERE or just google Lebensborn and see where it takes you.

This is an example of the Nazi practice of Eugenics. I do not accuse David Coleman of being a Nazi eugenicist. Modern Eugenicists believe in voluntary sterilisation of women and other birth-control methods as well as immigration restriction as ways of promoting what they regard as genetic purity.

Subject: RE: BS: The BNP conundrum
From: Owen Woodson
Date: 01 Oct 09 - 02:30 PM

Jeddy. "disabled. gay. single mothers. fat. anyone who speaks out. we could all be in trouble. have i missed anyone out who could be on the extinstiction list?"

My God, you've only just started. Anyone who's less than 100% Aryan, travellers, the congenitally disabled, the congenitally hard of hearing, trade unionists, Liberals, Socialists, Social Democrats, Communists, autistics, spastics, anyone who doesn't like fascism, members of religious minorities. The list is so long that if they ever get to the end of it, there might just be nobody left.

Oh, and I forgot to mention women. I never heard of any fascist party with plans for exterminating the female sex. But the traditional fascist view is that women belong firmly in the kitchen, in the home, and under the control of their lord and master, AKA husband.

So if you know any women who are stupid enough to support the BNP, and thank God I don't, you might point out that a BNP government would set back the cause of gender equality by at least a century.

Subject: RE: BS: The BNP conundrum
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 01 Oct 09 - 02:44 PM

Are you saying that professor Coleman believes in "immigration restriction as ways of promoting what they regard as genetic purity"?
If so do you have any evidence for that?

Are there any such "modern eugenicists" who believe in that?

Subject: RE: BS: The BNP conundrum
From: Royston
Date: 01 Oct 09 - 03:06 PM

Keith, I'm not getting shirty with you over this again, but I think it is reasonable for me to suggest to you that you should read up on Eugenics yourself and then come back if you think I've represented the movement wrongly in any way.

I am saying nothing about Coleman's personal beliefs but I am highlighting the absolute fact he is a leading modern Eugenicist.

The principles of Eugenics are well known and you can go and look them up yourself.

I am a socialist. It is reasonable that people should form views about me from that statement.

The same applies to Coleman.

Subject: RE: BS: The BNP conundrum
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 01 Oct 09 - 03:38 PM

There was a discredited pseudo science of genetics.
That disappeared half a cetury ago.
It has nothing to do with anything Coleman has ever been involved in.
Now, are you making things up about him or can you support what you are saying?

Subject: RE: BS: The BNP conundrum
From: Royston
Date: 01 Oct 09 - 04:06 PM

Piss off Keith,

I said Coleman is not a Nazi Eugenicist. I said that to avoid winding you up again. Jeddy asked about Eugenics (Lebensborn), I answered and went to lengths to keep Coleman out if it.

You go and read about modern Eugenics. Anyone can. Coleman can crawl up his own arse, or yours for all I care.

Subject: RE: BS: The BNP conundrum
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 01 Oct 09 - 04:26 PM

Why must you be so unpleasant?

Now, that eugenics is old history, so why associate it with reputable scientists and academics working today on genetic councelling, genetic profiling, transgenics etc.
They are all worthwhile and beneficial studies with no racist overtones, even though they are correctly called eugenics.

It is you that needs to read up on it Royston.

Subject: RE: BS: The BNP conundrum
From: irishenglish
Date: 01 Oct 09 - 04:55 PM

MBS George, you said-'Any party has to change as it grows and I believe that the good bits will stay and the not so good bits will be phased out. I was purely interested in housing, benefit, childcare and employment. None of the other parties had anything covering these and still don't."


If what you wrote is true, why is the language of the BNP so focused on the not so good bits? If you feel so misunderstood, and resentful of a racist tag because you were only interested in housing, benefit, etc, why did you not get involved with a party that may not have been adequately covering your concerns....but does not come with the baggage of the BNP? Doesn't make much sense to me..then again, the BNP makes no sense to me whatsoever, and whatever they may speak of as a genuine legitimate concern (which I personally doubt), is masked with a pervasive racist tone. I'm sorry-call this an attack if you want to, but joining up with this particular party, and then claiming oh its only because....but its not because of....is quite frankly, weak, when you have as Emma stated, an organization-"wholly opposed to any form of racial integration between British and non-European peoples" and believes in restoring "the overwhelmingly white make up of the British population that existed in Britain prior to 1948".