BS: Islamic Protest in Wootton Bassett

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic Protest in Wootton Bassett
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 05 Jan 10 - 08:41 AM

I thought football was tribal, and not racist?

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic Protest in Wootton Bassett
From: Rasener
Date: 05 Jan 10 - 08:59 AM

Well it won't happen as it will be banned.

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic Protest in Wootton Bassett
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 05 Jan 10 - 09:01 AM

"I thought football was tribal, and not racist?"

We're talking about hooliganism.

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic Protest in Wootton Bassett
From: GUEST,Jonny Sunshine
Date: 05 Jan 10 - 09:02 AM

"I would LOVE to hear Good and Decent Voices from the true Muslim community condemning all the crap that is going on around them, in their God's name."

Well, they're out there if you look.
British Muslims for Secular Democracy

Quilliam Foundation

But not being attention-seeking extremists they don't tend to get so much press, unlike Islam4UK.

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic Protest in Wootton Bassett
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 05 Jan 10 - 09:05 AM

As I've suggested in prose and verse, club football should be REGULATED back to how it was - mostly locals in MEANINGFUL competition.

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic Protest in Wootton Bassett
From: theleveller
Date: 05 Jan 10 - 09:23 AM

This is a curiously enigmatic conundrum. We are told that the British troops are in Afghanistan to ensure freedom of speech and self-determination for the Afghan people. Those who wish to stage the protest in Wooton Bassett appear to support the Taliban, whose aim is to repress this.

So, in effect, we have protesters demanding freedom of speech in Britain to oppose freedom of speech in Afghanistan. Those who oppose the march are denying the protesters freedom of speech in Britain whilst supporting it in Afghanistan.

Personally, whilst agreeing with Evelyn Hall's expression of Voltaire's principle: "I disagree with what you say but will defend to the death your right to say it", I also agree with John Stuart Mill that: "freedom of speech does not necessarily mean freedom of action".

Or am I just being too simplistic?

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic Protest in Wootton Bassett
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 05 Jan 10 - 09:29 AM

Then there's Shakespeare in Measure for Measure: "Liberty, as surfeit, is the father of much fast".

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic Protest in Wootton Bassett
From: paula t
Date: 05 Jan 10 - 09:39 AM

I listened with interest to a Muslim spokesperson yesterday on the radio.He said that the vast majority of Muslims in this country are against this proposed march. He said that he agreed with free speech, but not when it caused pain and distress - which this group would cause.
I find it interesting that although I listened all day and watched the news later, I didn't hear this man's voice again. Too sensible and caring for the media perhaps?

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic Protest in Wootton Bassett
From: Smedley
Date: 05 Jan 10 - 09:46 AM

Interesting point, Paula. I think it is distinctly likely that the highly iffy Mr Chouidary gets as much media coverage as he does because he slots so neatly into the 'raging Islamic extremist' template that sections of the British media want to foreground. In a single personage, he incarnates so many non-Muslim people's fears about extreme Islam that he is a gift to the press & the broadcasters. Alternative versions of Islam are so much less '''''sexy'''''.

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic Protest in Wootton Bassett
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 05 Jan 10 - 10:13 AM

"To foreground?"

Is there no noun that cannot be verbed [sic]?

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic Protest in Wootton Bassett
From: Smedley
Date: 05 Jan 10 - 10:50 AM

Sorry John - I don't like that process much either, but 'foreground' has been around for a dozen years or more so I guess I caved in. I still can't stand 'to task', hough.

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic Protest in Wootton Bassett
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 05 Jan 10 - 11:08 AM

Or 'To parent'.

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic Protest in Wootton Bassett
From: GUEST,ifor
Date: 05 Jan 10 - 11:19 AM

I don't think for one moment that Choudrey's procession will go ahead. The man is a cheap publicity seeker who seeks to poison relations between muslims and others.
And the BNP and other far right groups need people like him to get angry about.
What is interesting for me is that when he announced his march the BBC leapt in to give him 10 minutes of prime time radio on its main breakfast programme.
At any other time when the anti war movement announces a demonstration the march usually receives zilch pre coverage and only very, very limited coverage after the event.
Choudrey probably has a dozen supporters yet his publicity from all the media is extensive...it is as if the media can't wait to show the public that muslims are indeed the terrorist threat within.
ifor

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic Protest in Wootton Bassett
From: CarolC
Date: 05 Jan 10 - 12:05 PM

No Lizzie, the reason women and children are being killed is because the US and UK governments are willing to accept "collateral damage" and if they have to kill women and children in order to kill their target, they're willing to do that. So if their target is sleeping in his house and his family is sleeping there also, they will accept the deaths of the rest of the family if it means killing their target. It's also because they don't always make absolute sure that their intelligence is accurate and they sometimes fire on the wrong target because they had bad intelligence. They call that collateral damage also and they're perfectly willing to accept that.

The Afghan people don't accept the collateral damage, and they don't want US and UK troops in their country. They have a right to not want foreign troops in their country. The foreign troops, on the other hand, have no right whatever to be in their country.

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic Protest in Wootton Bassett
From: CarolC
Date: 05 Jan 10 - 12:15 PM

It is everyone's human right to be able to live their lives in peace and freedom...and that includes the women of Afghanistan.

And yet, Lizzie, you are completely ignoring what the women of Afghanistan have said they want. What you are saying is that the women of Afghanistan have the right to accept whatever you want. Except that they aren't even getting peace and freedom. I still dare you to listen to the video I posted earlier in this thread. I expect you aren't willing to because you don't really care about what the women of Afghanistan want. You only really care about what you want.

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic Protest in Wootton Bassett
From: CarolC
Date: 05 Jan 10 - 12:35 PM

To all who think there's something wrong with supporting the Taliban (I don't myself, but that's immaterial), the Taliban are no worse than the Afghans they are fighting. They are all just as repressive as the Taliban, they are all just as violent as the Taliban, they are all just as extreme in the form of Islam they practice as the Taliban. The main difference is that the Taliban brought order to the country while the warlords who are fighting them brought only chaos. That's it. There is no other difference.

The UK and US are supporting people who are just as bad as the Taliban, and only for the reason that they can get those people to do their bidding. Not because those people will bring peace and freedom, or anything like it, to the people (in particular, the women), of Afghanistan.

Those who support what the UK and US governments are doing in Afghanistan are supporting people who are every bit as bad as the Taliban.

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic Protest in Wootton Bassett
From: CarolC
Date: 05 Jan 10 - 12:58 PM

They don't head back to their own countries because countries like the US and UK have made people's lives in those countries a bloody hell, that's why.

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic Protest in Wootton Bassett
From: Rasener
Date: 05 Jan 10 - 01:11 PM

What I find utterly despicable is sending women and children into groups of innocent people and blowing themselves up.

I get so angry that anybody could allow such a thing to happen, no matter what group they are.

All this bloke is doing is creating a bigger hatred to Islam from Uk citizens and giving the BNP all the ammo it needs.

Are we heading for a Jugoslavia in our country?

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic Protest in Wootton Bassett
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 05 Jan 10 - 01:15 PM

So Carol, what would you have us do in Afghanistan?

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic Protest in Wootton Bassett
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 05 Jan 10 - 01:36 PM

I watched the video, Carol. Apparently the Taliban aren't as bad as the War Lords because they merely imprison them, rather than rape them, she said...

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic Protest in Wootton Bassett
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 05 Jan 10 - 01:40 PM

Sorry, my darn compooter went wizzy again...

As I was saying....

In my book, they're all as bad as one another..and to support any scum who pour acid onto the faces of young girls is abhorrent. Ask *those* young women what they think of the men who rule their lives, Carol.

I don't want to hear it from some American reporter...I want to hear it from the young women who've been scarred for life, who are forced to wear outfits some of them loathe, who have hard, punishing lives....

And as Villan said above...the cowards who now use women and children as suicide bombers in war, are the lowest of the low, second only to those who store their weapons in the houses of families, knowing that Israel will target those houses to stop her own people from being killed...and then they'll get a bad press about it...

It's all a clever game to these men.   They don't give a damn about the suffering of the innocents.

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic Protest in Wootton Bassett
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 05 Jan 10 - 01:56 PM

"knowing that Israel will target those houses to stop her own people from being killed...and then they'll get a bad press about it..."

Oh yes, poor old Israel - the innocent victim in all this.

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic Protest in Wootton Bassett
From: CarolC
Date: 05 Jan 10 - 02:00 PM

John, I think we should let the people of Afghanistan decide what should be done.

That woman is not a reporter, Lizzie. She is a women's rights activist who has spent time living among and advocating for the women she is speaking for. She has done what no one else has done, not even your government... she has made it possible for their voices to be heard. All your government (and mine) has done is cram our own agendas down their throats.

But as I said, you don't really give a crap about what the women of Afghanistan want. You only care about what you want.

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic Protest in Wootton Bassett
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 05 Jan 10 - 02:06 PM

I think you mean, let the men of Afghanistan decide what is best. With no input from the women of course.
Don't you Carol?

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic Protest in Wootton Bassett
From: CarolC
Date: 05 Jan 10 - 02:08 PM

By the way, Lizzie, it has been established that most of the claims of the government of Israel that they were only targeting houses with weapons being stored in them have been shown to be false. And the government of Israel itself admitted that they were targeting civilians and civilian infrastructure for the purpose of punishing the people of Gaza and making them suffer.

You actually support the very kind of people you say you hate. You support people who kill innocent civilians, including women and children, for reasons that have nothing whatever to do with self defense.

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic Protest in Wootton Bassett
From: CarolC
Date: 05 Jan 10 - 02:09 PM

Why would you say that, John? Please show me any post of mine that would lead a reasonable person to suggest that.

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic Protest in Wootton Bassett
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 05 Jan 10 - 02:19 PM

Well that's almost certainly what will happen Carol.

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic Protest in Wootton Bassett
From: Rasener
Date: 05 Jan 10 - 02:24 PM

>>What I find utterly despicable is sending women and children into groups of innocent people and blowing themselves up.

I get so angry that anybody could allow such a thing to happen, no matter what group they are.<<

Have you no comment CarolC or are you using the politicians way out. Just avoid it.

Its utterly despicable and there is no excuse in the world for it.

Do you condone it CarolC?

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic Protest in Wootton Bassett
From: CarolC
Date: 05 Jan 10 - 03:00 PM

John, if you have read any of my posts in this thread, you will know that I am saying that we need to listen to what the women in Afghanistan are saying they want.


No, Villan, and I have said numerous times that I condemn it. But it is a response to imperialism and in the case of Israel, colonialism, ethnic cleansing, and genocide, so regardless of how I feel about it, it's not going to go away until the imperialism, colonialism, ethnic cleansing, and genocide are stopped. Stopping these things is the only way to save the lives of those innocent women and children.

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic Protest in Wootton Bassett
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 05 Jan 10 - 03:04 PM

They were never listened to before Carol. I'm not sure you have got the right idea regarding the second class citizen status that most Moslem women have to endure. They have no voice, they are owned by their husbands/fathers, and they have no rights, under the laws of their religion.

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic Protest in Wootton Bassett
From: CarolC
Date: 05 Jan 10 - 03:07 PM

John, I suggest that you listen to this...

http://www.miptalk.com/?p=325

This woman is a feminist and a human rights and women's rights activist. She spent time with the women in Afghanistan listening to what they had to say about what they want. And she brought a petition back with here, with their signatures, that she gave to President Obama. If we really care about what the women of Afghanistan want, we need to listen to and take heed of what they have to say. Listen to the talk in that link I provided.

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic Protest in Wootton Bassett
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 05 Jan 10 - 03:33 PM

No good me or you listening to them Carol, we don't live in their country. What we think or say, doesn't affect their situation one whit

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic Protest in Wootton Bassett
From: CarolC
Date: 05 Jan 10 - 03:58 PM

It certainly does if what they say they want is for our militaries to leave their country (which is what they are saying).

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic Protest in Wootton Bassett
From: Lox
Date: 05 Jan 10 - 04:04 PM

"No good me or you listening to them Carol"

How can you possibly know unless you have heard what they have to say?

Its like saying: - no point in me looking in that dictionary, I don't know what any of those words even mean ...

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic Protest in Wootton Bassett
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 05 Jan 10 - 04:19 PM

Rhetorical reply Lox. What I said im[plied that listening to them changed nothing, not that I didn't listen. Please read what I posted.

Carol, circular argument, it started with my asking you what will happen if we leave, you haven't answered the question.
You have told me what you would like to happen, I have told you it is unlikely to happen, given the status, or lack of status in that country.

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic Protest in Wootton Bassett
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 05 Jan 10 - 04:23 PM

Rhetorical reply Lox. What I said im[plied that listening to them changed nothing, not that I didn't listen. Please read what I posted.

Carol, circular argument, it started with my asking you what will happen if we leave, you haven't answered the question.
You have told me what you would like to happen, I have told you it is unlikely to happen, given the status, or lack of status of women, in that country.

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic Protest in Wootton Bassett
From: CarolC
Date: 05 Jan 10 - 04:41 PM

John, please show me where you asked me what would happen if we leave.

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic Protest in Wootton Bassett
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 05 Jan 10 - 04:51 PM

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic Protest in Wootton Bassett
From: John MacKenzie - PM
Date: 05 Jan 10 - 01:15 PM

So Carol, what would you have us do in Afghanistan?

Sorry Carol, I meant this post, which amounts to the same thing, almost.

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic Protest in Wootton Bassett
From: CarolC
Date: 05 Jan 10 - 05:02 PM

You asked me what I would have us do in Afghanistan, and then you criticized me for answering the question as you asked it. My answer was and still is that I would have us do whatever the people of Afghanistan want us to do. I would go even further and say that I would have us do whatever the women of Afghanistan say they want us to do.

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic Protest in Wootton Bassett
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 05 Jan 10 - 05:10 PM

John MacKenzie and Lizzie Cornish are both displaying a complete ingnorance of how women think in Islamic societies. Many such women - I would say most - believe that women are inferior to their men. They actually prefer to shroud themselves from public gaze and feel comfortable and secure when so dressed. For them it is perfectly reasonable that a husband may have four wives (so long as he has the means to maintain four households.)

They see nothing paradoxical in a convention in Shia communities whereby any man convicted of rape is required to marry his victim. If you point out that such a requirement is likely to be abhorrent to the victim, they will respond that "she should have thought about that," believing that such victims have invariably contributed to their own misfortune.

Likewise many people of both genders in the middle-east regard democracy as an alien and suspect method of governance and are much more comfortable with (often royal) dictatorships. Thus there is a widespread view in the region that Saddam was a good leader. The logic behind that was a belief (albeit misguided) that his murderous excesses would not reach them,f and a majority did manage to live reasonable lives. They compare that with the alternative that has been thrust upon them - many hundreds of thousands killed almost indiscrimately, and relatively stable (and sometimes west-leaning) countries massively distabilised by the influx of displaced Iraqis. (In Jordan's case, for instance, more than two million have been absorbed into a country that had a population of less than one million.)

Such thinking may be a million miles away from attitudes that prevail in the west, but it is deep-seated and the west should by now have found better ways to deal with it than by waging wasteful and brainless wars.

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic Protest in Wootton Bassett
From: CarolC
Date: 05 Jan 10 - 05:17 PM

Peter K, where do you get your information about how women in Islamic societies think? I don't think that applies in all Islamic societies. I know it doesn't apply in Iran, for instance.

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic Protest in Wootton Bassett
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 05 Jan 10 - 05:59 PM

"John MacKenzie and Lizzie Cornish are both displaying a complete ingnorance of how women think in Islamic societies."


Peter, for nearly 10 years I worked in Harley Street, back in the 70s, when the people of the Middle East had no hospitals of their own, or only a very few. The pavements of London at that time, were thronged with black. There I came into contact with thousands, (over the years) of women, of all ages, from all parts of the Middle East.   

From Princesses to Peasants....

I also dealt with interpreters, accountants, Embassy Officials of different countries.

I got to know the sharks and the kittens of the Middle East. I got to know a whole mini Middle East society.

I talked to body guards (with their guns) and to Heads of State, who would come to see us after hours....when we 'mere women' were told to remain in our office, as the Ruler of Oman did not want to see us.
Of course, I always made sure I walked straight into the waiting room, and said good evening to them all....

I bartered, I argued, I cuddled, I uplifted, I offered my shoulder to cry on.

I had Princesses giggling in my office, because men were outside...and I dealt with the deeply unhappy beaten wives, who spent their summers 'doing Europe' searching for the cure from an illness they didn't have, because the illness was the beatings they had to endure. Their summer appointments were their one respite.

I spent Ramadan at the Saudi Health Office, patiently trying to explain to the crooked regime there that yes, they did owe Mr.Phelps Brown well over £100,000 for patients seen in just a few months...and I rebuffed the 'You show me some honey, and I'll show you the money' request from their bastard of a slimey Chief Accountant....

I was friends with Bassim and Hisham who always looked after me when I disappeared into the Embassies...and I worked out pretty fast that the Kuwaitis were lovely people, as were the Egyptians...The Qatari's pretty much did as they were told, the Libyans were pretty darn loopy and papered their Embassy walls with Harley St. bills which they never did pay...The Saudi Health Office eventually rumbled their crooked accountant...and years later he was returned to Saudi, in disgrace...Dr. Juma Bilal and Dr. Solomon, both heads of the United Arab Emirates Embassy were also friends of mine..Juma in particular was a real sweetiepie, who went out his way to inform me that the Saudi Health Office were telling lies about the doctor I worked for..

The womenn called me 'Habibi' and loved the fact I wore kohl on my eyes...and we'd laugh and joke, or mop up tears, whatever needed doing in their lives....

I learnt also that most Arab men felt that most Western women were/are sluts...and treated them accordingly. I never flirted with any of them, never gave them cause to treat me with anything, other than respect.

And I still have the beautiful scarf Sheikh Assaf gave me, the Worry Beads that Mr. Ali Bin Ali gave me, which he held to his heart...

The women interpreters told me much about their countries, about their lives....

I have always loved people from the Middle East...and I got to know many of them...but I also know that many of the men think very differently to western men...treat their women differently....see women as belonging to them.

I saw the spoilt Princesses, doing their European Tours of doctors and hospital appointments, filling their days with buying Western clothes to wear at home, inside their palaces, or going to Harrods...dropping gold bracelets to the 'peasants' (me) from their grandfather, Sheikh Al-Thani, the wise old man of Qatar...

I watched the Arab women walking behind their men, hidden in their black outfits, their leather masks hiding all but their beautiful eyes...and how their eyes betrayed their lives....sometimes sparkling, but so often like Alice's Puddle, telling of never ending tears....

So don't tell me that I don't know about people from the Middle East...because I have a strong affinity with them...I held their babies, held their hands, held their souls, whatever they needed most.

There *are* some women who prefer to hide behind their robes. There are many who do not. Women should be free to be who they want to be..not forced to wear burkhas all their lives, or have acid poured on their faces purely for wanting to become educated..

May I politely suggest you also read 'The Prince and I' and 'Not Without My Daughter' for an insight into how women are treated in Arab society...

Inshallah...

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic Protest in Wootton Bassett
From: The Sandman
Date: 05 Jan 10 - 06:45 PM

"From Princesses to Peasants....

I also dealt with interpreters, accountants, Embassy Officials of different countries.

I got to know the sharks and the kittens of the Middle East. I got to know a whole mini Middle East society.

I talked to body guards (with their guns) and to Heads of State, who would come to see us after hours....when we 'mere women' were told to remain in our office, as the Ruler of Oman did not want to see us.
Of course, I always made sure I walked straight into the waiting room, and said good evening to them all....

I bartered, I argued, I cuddled, I uplifted, I offered my shoulder to cry on.

I had Princesses giggling in my office, because men were outside...and I dealt with the deeply unhappy beaten wives, who spent their summers 'doing Europe' searching for the cure from an illness they didn't have, because the illness was the beatings they had to endure. Their summer appointments were their one respite.

I spent Ramadan at the Saudi Health Office, patiently trying to explain to the crooked regime there that yes, they did owe Mr.Phelps Brown well over £100,000 for patients seen in just a few months...and I rebuffed the 'You show me some honey, and I'll show you the money' request from their bastard of a slimey Chief Accountant....

I was friends with Bassim and Hisham who always looked after me when I disappeared into the Embassies...and I worked out pretty fast that the Kuwaitis were lovely people, as were the Egyptians...The Qatari's pretty much did as they were told, the Libyans were pretty darn loopy and papered their Embassy walls with Harley St. bills which they never did pay...The Saudi Health Office eventually rumbled their crooked accountant...and years later he was returned to Saudi, in disgrace...Dr. Juma Bilal and Dr. Solomon, both heads of the United Arab Emirates Embassy were also friends of mine..Juma in particular was a real sweetiepie, who went out his way to inform me that the Saudi Health Office were telling lies about the doctor I worked for..

The womenn called me 'Habibi' and loved the fact I wore kohl on my eyes...and we'd laugh and joke, or mop up tears, whatever needed doing in their lives....

I learnt also that most Arab men felt that most Western women were/are sluts...and treated them accordingly. I never flirted with any of them, never gave them cause to treat me with anything, other than respect."
and you say you can build a new high speed railway for 33 billion.
can you tell me who will win the 3 .50 at kempton tomorrow.
you have five runners,here they are.
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b g Elusive Quality (USA) - Millstream (USA)

4, 9-13 (28) (Katy & Lol Pratt) (Drawn 2)
        

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American Light

b g Statue Of Liberty (USA) - Break Of Dawn (USA)

4, 9-13 (26) (Tick Tock Partnership) (Drawn 5)
        

D M Simcock

M Lane (3)
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Slap And Tickle

b f Exceed And Excel (AUS) - Common Rumpus (IRE)

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S C Williams

W Carson (3)
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Fair Passion

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3, 8-7 (12) (Mr M Channon) (Drawn 4)
        

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Subject: RE: BS: Islamic Protest in Wootton Bassett
From: The Sandman
Date: 05 Jan 10 - 06:49 PM

slap and tickle, fair passion,texas queen,american light, elusive quality.

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic Protest in Wootton Bassett
From: Lox
Date: 05 Jan 10 - 07:49 PM

I recently engaged in an exchange of ideas and views with a Shi'ite Moslem on the subject of Iran who missed Iran terribly for the status and respect that women enjoy there.

I am not saying that Iran treats women better, I am saying that a Shi'ite woman thinks so.

The rest of our conversation was so interesting and honest that I had no reason to doubt her for a second.

Certainly I have met many young Sunni Moslem Women who are proud of and derive great succour from their role within Islam.

Many see western women as being slaves of vanity and victims of corporate social propaganda concerning how women are supposed to look and behave, both of which involve a degree of self abuse, both physically, emotionally and spiritually.


There are many Moslem women who would see Islam as being a route by which western women could achieve otherwise elusive happiness.


As carol says, it is important to ask people how they feel before speaking for them.

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic Protest in Wootton Bassett
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 06 Jan 10 - 03:15 AM

We have about 12 honour killings of muslim women every year in UK.
They are women and girls killed by husbands, fathers or brothers.
They would probably have preferred life, I think.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/ethics/honourcrimes/crimesofhonour_1.shtml

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic Protest in Wootton Bassett
From: CarolC
Date: 06 Jan 10 - 03:36 AM

How many women in your country are killed each year by husbands, fathers, and boyfriends who are not Muslim? I'm guessing more than 12.

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic Protest in Wootton Bassett
From: CarolC
Date: 06 Jan 10 - 03:42 AM

I notice the article doesn't give numbers for how many honor killings involve Muslims. You have just assumed that all honor killings are committed by Muslims, haven't you, Keith?

Honor killings are not a problem only with Muslims. Other groups do it also. You only hear about Muslims doing it, though, because it serves the interests of some people to spread hate towards Muslims, and those who need a group to scapegoat are extremely willing to help them do it.

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic Protest in Wootton Bassett
From: Lox
Date: 06 Jan 10 - 03:49 AM

Here's your answer Keith.



    "Domestic violence costs the lives of more than 2 women every week."



Thats more than a hundred a year.



Bloody westerners!!

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic Protest in Wootton Bassett
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 06 Jan 10 - 04:19 AM

Again, if you feel that all Iranian women are treated well, then read 'Not Without My Daughter'...or watch the film of the book, with Sally Field in. Read how the young Princess was stoned to death, purely for wanting to be with the man she loved.


The Stoning of Adulteresses (note that this doesn't happen to the men)


Yeah...lovely way to treat women, huh?