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BS: Islamic Protest in Wootton Bassett
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Subject: RE: BS: Islamic Protest in Wootton Bassett From: Folkiedave Date: 08 Jan 10 - 06:23 AM ~If a mudcat elf happens to see that - the first paragraph is the one in italics only. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Islamic Protest in Wootton Bassett From: The Sandman Date: 08 Jan 10 - 06:27 AM "They must be trying to get a nuclear device"quote.. and who sells them the nuclear weapons , western capitalists,. one thing I will say for islam is that they have a set of moral values,Idont agree with a lot of them. the problem with the capitaistic west, is that it worships mamman, and is happily prepared to sell islamic countries nuclear weapons,to further their own cause,they[the capitalists] only have themselves to blame,by being completely amoral. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Islamic Protest in Wootton Bassett From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 08 Jan 10 - 06:35 AM Is it true that Mr. Choudrey is a qualified solicitor? If so, can it be so hard to find work? Are you sure that there is a trade in nuclear weapons GSF? Any examples of a buyer or a seller? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Islamic Protest in Wootton Bassett From: GUEST,Lizzie Cornish Date: 08 Jan 10 - 07:04 AM From Wiki: From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Jump to: navigation, search Anjem Choudary -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Leader of Islam4UK -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Born 1967 Welling, London, England Nationality British Spouse(s) Rubana Akhtar Residence Ilford, London, England Religion Islam Anjem Choudary (born 1967) is a British former solicitor, and the spokesman for the Islamist group Islam4UK. He is married, has four children, and lives in Ilford, London. [lengthy copy-paste deleted. see link. -Joe Offer-] |
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Subject: RE: BS: Islamic Protest in Wootton Bassett From: GUEST,Lizzie Cornish Date: 08 Jan 10 - 07:18 AM Choudary talking about the English Defence League and saying how the flag of Islam will one day fly over 10 Downing Street: Choudary's Views and how Islam will cure all... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Islamic Protest in Wootton Bassett From: Peter K (Fionn) Date: 08 Jan 10 - 08:13 AM Lazy and indiscriminate cutting and pasting on a scale such as we see from Lizzie Cornish above, in a BS thread, from a source that anyone in the world can edit to their heart's content, is an abuse of Mudcat. According to the guidelines the last time I checked, a simple link should be posted instead. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Islamic Protest in Wootton Bassett From: Smedley Date: 08 Jan 10 - 08:18 AM Just a link next time, please Lizzie. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Islamic Protest in Wootton Bassett From: GUEST,Lizzie Cornish Date: 08 Jan 10 - 08:18 AM Oh PFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFT! Don't be such a twit. If you don't want to read it, just scroll by it. Some people can't open links ya know.. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Islamic Protest in Wootton Bassett From: GUEST,Lizzie Cornish Date: 08 Jan 10 - 08:21 AM That was addressed to peter, but smedley, you can share in the PFFFFFT too. :0) Grow up, boys...and look on the bright side, they could have all been MY words! ;0) Lizzie The Insubordinate (LOL) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Islamic Protest in Wootton Bassett From: Lox Date: 08 Jan 10 - 08:33 AM "If you don't want to read it, just scroll by it." The fact that you have just posted the whole thing and not identified any key phrases relevant to points and questions that have been raised shows that you haven't taken the time to read and digest one word. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Islamic Protest in Wootton Bassett From: GUEST,Chris b (Born Again Scouser) Date: 08 Jan 10 - 08:40 AM This is going nowhere. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Islamic Protest in Wootton Bassett From: Dave the Gnome Date: 08 Jan 10 - 08:49 AM Pretty fast as well Chris B! From the Mudcat FAQ - Posted without comment. DeG |
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Subject: RE: BS: Islamic Protest in Wootton Bassett From: Folkiedave Date: 08 Jan 10 - 08:58 AM The fact that you have just posted the whole thing and not identified any key phrases relevant to points and questions that have been raised shows that you haven't taken the time to read and digest one word. And not for the first time! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Islamic Protest in Wootton Bassett From: GUEST,Lizzie Cornish Date: 08 Jan 10 - 09:00 AM Actually, Bully Boys, I DID read it, which is more than you lot have done, it seems.. There are those who post to Mudcat for correct reasons, and...there are those who just post to hound people. May I politely suggest that you lot put your snouts up your arses and go hunt elsewhere. Thank ooo..... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Islamic Protest in Wootton Bassett From: Dave the Gnome Date: 08 Jan 10 - 09:30 AM Actually, Bully Boys, I DID read it, which is more than you lot have done, it seems.. Read what? Obviously not We also do not permit the posting of lengthy non-music articles from other sources. If they fill more than a screen's worth of space, post a summary of the article in your own words, and provide a link to where the information can be found. Although Mudcat is a music forum, we welcome discussions of politics and other subjects, as long as discussion participants use their own words and ideas. -Joe Offer Is there nothing you will not do to get banned from everywhere Lizzie? :-) Good luck to you - Guinness book of records watching by any chance? :D |
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Subject: RE: BS: Islamic Protest in Wootton Bassett From: Smedley Date: 08 Jan 10 - 09:39 AM Some people can't open links, or some people can't be bothered to take a couple of minutes to provide one ? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Islamic Protest in Wootton Bassett From: Folkiedave Date: 08 Jan 10 - 10:31 AM Subject: RE: BS: Islamic Protest in Wootton Bassett From: Folkiedave - PM Date: 07 Jan 10 - 06:10 PM Regular readers will no doubt expect as I do, wails of heartache from Lizzie how I follow her around contradicting the horlicks she posts. See what I mean? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Islamic Protest in Wootton Bassett From: The Sandman Date: 08 Jan 10 - 10:34 AM keith a. During the 1990's, the Arab states and Iran imported more than $180 billion worth of the most sophisticated weapons and military infrastructure available from both the Western and Eastern blocs. They continue to spend approximately $30 billion annually on their armed forces. now I can see this does not mention nuclear weapons specifically,but I would be very surprised,if this not include nuclear weapons of one sort or another,[I would interpret the phrase most sophisticated weapons] to include nuclear,but please prove me wrong , by providing facts that show, no western countries sell nuclear weapons to muslim countries. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Islamic Protest in Wootton Bassett From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 08 Jan 10 - 01:01 PM How could I prove a negative? You made the claim,so come up with something please. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Islamic Protest in Wootton Bassett From: MGM·Lion Date: 08 Jan 10 - 01:10 PM I must say, Dick, that it seems most unlikely to me that any western government with a modicum of the sense it was born with would ever issue an export licence for such a transaction as you seem to postulate here. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Islamic Protest in Wootton Bassett From: CarolC Date: 08 Jan 10 - 01:11 PM MtheGM, you are correct. We will continue to disagree. I maintain that when Western governments stop interfering in the affairs of Muslim countries, even the most extreme of Muslims will be far more concerned with what goes on in Muslim countries than in Western countries, and all of their energies will be spent in the Muslim countries. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Islamic Protest in Wootton Bassett From: CarolC Date: 08 Jan 10 - 01:21 PM Surely this is not, or should not, be about Moslems, Christians, Imperialism or any such. Is it not about a specific protest and whether it is right or not? Whatver the cause?... ...They just view that suggested protest as, at best, tasteless and, at worst, hurtful to those who have lost people in the war. It could have been just about the protest itself. Had the disagreement with the protest been framed similarly to the way you have framed it above, I would not have posted to this thread at all. But it wasn't. The way it was framed sounded like it could have come directly from the BNP. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Islamic Protest in Wootton Bassett From: Lizzie Cornish 1 Date: 08 Jan 10 - 02:13 PM "The way it was framed sounded like it could have come directly from the BNP." And therein lies the danger of the BNP, Carol....because many people are shite fed up in this country with feeling that the host nation has surrendered so very much, that we have become almost second class citizens in our own land. You have to treat *everyone* equally, otherwise you create far more problems than you could ever dream of. ALL of us in this country are as important as each other...and I have no problem with skin colour or religions, other than when religions are used by murderers and terrorists to hide behind. Thank God, whoever your God may be, that the Mega Mosque in London seems to have been stopped from going ahead now..because even the local Muslim population of Newham complained about that one.... I'd post links and words to it, but some folks in here suffer Total Hysteria about that, sooooooooooooooooooo you can all look it up yourselves. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Islamic Protest in Wootton Bassett From: Smedley Date: 08 Jan 10 - 02:16 PM And if you have to treat everyone equally, then the profoundly unpleasant, misguided and provocative Choudary has the same right to protest as every other citizen. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Islamic Protest in Wootton Bassett From: Folkiedave Date: 08 Jan 10 - 02:26 PM ...because many people are shite fed up in this country with feeling that the host nation has surrendered so very much, that we have become almost second class citizens in our own land. Are you fed up with this country, and in what way have you become a second-class citizen? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Islamic Protest in Wootton Bassett From: Lizzie Cornish 1 Date: 08 Jan 10 - 02:28 PM Well, yes, of course. So that means if someone's going to organise a 'profounly unpleasant, misguided and provocative' march, then you tell 'em they can't.... Problem solved. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Islamic Protest in Wootton Bassett From: Ruth Archer Date: 08 Jan 10 - 03:34 PM "Well, yes, of course. So that means if someone's going to organise a 'profoundly unpleasant, misguided and provocative' march, then you tell 'em they can't...." And that's free speech? What about the various causes you champion, Lizzie? Not that you seem to get beyond the ranting stage with most of them, but what if you decided to have a march to raise awareness of your inflated water bills, or your mother-in-law's bath handles, and people where you live found it "profoundly unpleasant, misguided and provocative" - should you be allowed to go ahead? Or is it a case of one rule for you, and another for people with whom you disagree? Please provide evidence for the ways in which you have become a second-class citizen in your country, and real (not fabricated by tabloids) examples of Muslims and other immigrants receiving rights and privileges that you do not. "And therein lies the danger of the BNP, Carol...." What - that it turns out that they think like you? No - there lies the danger of buying into the white-eyed paranoia of the tabloids, who whip up hysteria to sell their papers to gullible morons, who then base their political "views" on misinformation and outright lies. You may find that you're keeping some pretty nasty bedfellows. But this is what comes of not fundamentally understanding the principles of free speech or the basic tenets of British democracy. Oh, the irony. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Islamic Protest in Wootton Bassett From: Lizzie Cornish 1 Date: 08 Jan 10 - 05:54 PM yawnnnnnnnnnnn..... Well, this is kinda nice...but if those lads had to wear a full body burkha on a hot day, I bet they'd be complainin' like hell.... Queens of Islam Now even though I've reached an age and er...a shape...where a full body burkha seems one helluva great idea, I still worry about any religous zealots who feel they have a divine right to insist that I had no choice BUT to wear one.. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Islamic Protest in Wootton Bassett From: Royston Date: 08 Jan 10 - 06:41 PM Anjem Choudary is a crank with a couple of dozen of crank supporters. He runs a website that makes claims that Islam4UK is some sort of "organisation" - it is not. It is just Choudary. He is media savvy and the media just love to lap up everything he has to say. Note that the muslim residents of Wootton Bassett who turn out to honour the dead get only a footnote in the column-miles dedicated to this subject - and it took Keith A of H to notice it and bring it here! Lizzie and others. You are as damned stupid and malicious as are the press organs that grind this tired old crap out time after time. Choudary is a non-story that appeals to some people's baser instincts and the reactions of Lizzie et al tell us more about their dark sides than anything else. Why should the 200,000 or so peaceful Muslims in this country have to flagellate themselves and beg for Cornish mercy every time a crank like this pipes up? It's as crazy as suggesting that every Brit or Yank should commit harakiri for the mass murdering lawlessnes of Blair and Bush. Get a grip people, please. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Islamic Protest in Wootton Bassett From: Ruth Archer Date: 08 Jan 10 - 06:55 PM "I still worry about any religous zealots who feel they have a divine right to insist that I had no choice BUT to wear one.." But who is insisting that you should? No one is. Many Muslim women say that they enjoy the freedom from vanity and body fascism which comes of not having to conform to western ideas of how women ought to look and dress. Personally, I don't think there's anything more depressing, twisted or oppressive about the burkha than there is about the increasing cult of cosmetic surgery in the west. Who are we to tell these women that they are being oppressed, when in our culture it has become completely normalised for women to starve themselves and carve their bodies and faces up in order to achieve some elusive ideal? Who has created that ideal? Who has told women in our ever-so enlightened society that there is one perfect way to look, and that it is right and normal that they should mutilate their own bodies in order to try and achieve it? These concepts come from industries in which men call the shots and women are commodities. Many of the women who mutilate themselves in this way end up looking like side-show freaks, and for what? Like the majority of women who wear the burkha, these cosmetically "enhanced" women will also tell you that it's their choice to do what they are doing. But the pressure is clearly coming from various social and societal factors, and quite often from the men in their lives. And look at the way that pornography has become so normalised, with top-shelf magazines now being freely on sale in WH Smith's and little girls saying they want to grow up to be Page 3 models or pole dancers. So are we really so much more sorted than the women who wear the burkha? Are we so much more enlightened that we can sit here and preach about them? I'm not so sure. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Islamic Protest in Wootton Bassett From: akenaton Date: 08 Jan 10 - 07:24 PM Oh My! the contradictions of "liberalism"....seems they are all in danger of disappearing up their own arseholes! Common sense and reason is the answer children. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Islamic Protest in Wootton Bassett From: Folkiedave Date: 08 Jan 10 - 08:03 PM Well, this is kinda nice...but if those lads had to wear a full body burkha on a hot day, I bet they'd be complainin' like hell.... Your cultural experiences must be very limited. Lots of men wear full clothing in hot climates. Including a veil. Limited research again Lizzie. Not doing very well on this thread are you? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Islamic Protest in Wootton Bassett From: CarolC Date: 09 Jan 10 - 12:40 AM Anyway, if you ask those burka-wearing women in those countries if they would rather wear the burka or have their kids all blown to hell by US or UK bombs (in order to "liberate" them from their burkas), I'll be money they would prefer to wear the burka. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Islamic Protest in Wootton Bassett From: GUEST,999 Date: 09 Jan 10 - 01:01 AM They would likely prefer neither. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Islamic Protest in Wootton Bassett From: CarolC Date: 09 Jan 10 - 01:06 AM You're not in a position to speak for them, 999. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Islamic Protest in Wootton Bassett From: CarolC Date: 09 Jan 10 - 01:09 AM I should rephrase what I just posted. No one except the women who wear burkas are in a position to say whether or not they would prefer to wear them. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Islamic Protest in Wootton Bassett From: GUEST,999 Date: 09 Jan 10 - 01:13 AM And you ARE in a position to speak for them? Right! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Islamic Protest in Wootton Bassett From: GUEST,999 Date: 09 Jan 10 - 01:14 AM "Anyway, if you ask those burka-wearing women in those countries if they would rather wear the burka or have their kids all blown to hell by US or UK bombs (in order to "liberate" them from their burkas), I'll be money they would prefer to wear the burka." Those are your words. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Islamic Protest in Wootton Bassett From: CarolC Date: 09 Jan 10 - 01:16 AM Nope. That doesn't look right, either. As a mother, I can say that given a choice between wearing the burka, or having their kids blown up, most mothers would choose the burka. And if Western countries decide to wage war against their countries just to "liberate" them from their burkas, that is a very real possibility for them. But as someone who is not a Muslim, and does not live in a Musim country, I am not in a position to say how the women in those places who do wear them feel about it. And no-one who isn't in their position can really say how they feel about it either. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Islamic Protest in Wootton Bassett From: CarolC Date: 09 Jan 10 - 01:17 AM We crossposted, 999. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Islamic Protest in Wootton Bassett From: GUEST,999 Date: 09 Jan 10 - 01:22 AM As a father, given the choice, I'D wear the burka. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Islamic Protest in Wootton Bassett From: Lizzie Cornish 1 Date: 09 Jan 10 - 03:41 AM And what about their female children having acid poured on their faces, Carol,purely for going to school? Thank you, Dave, I am well aware, having worked in Harley Street during the 70s, that many Arab men wear long clothes. I have to say, that of the thousands of Arab men I *did* meet, I never met one wearing a 'veil' but...who knows. Their faces were always free to the air. They also were able to choose if they wanted to adopt Western fashion whilst over here, perhaps even doing so in their own countries too, although I'd presume most didn't, as being covered in the right sort of light coloured, light fabric, long clothes is more cooling in the summer, but it is not up to any man to dictate to any woman what she should or should not be wearing, nor to punish her if she refuses to do as she is told. There is a terrible culture of bullying within parts of Islam, I'm afraid....not just by the men, but by the fanatical women too. If you read 'Not Without My Daughter' you'll learn about the Iranian women police who travel around in their vans looking out for women who are not suitably dressed. This happened to the author herself, who despite being American had to adopt the full dresscode, as she was living with her husband's family at the time. She had a tiny part of her leg showing, just above the ankle, where her gown had got caught up without her knowing one day, when she was out....She was put up against a wall and screamed at by hysterical women, brainwashed from birth to behave this way.... Yes, there are many cultured parts of the Middle East, with many, many highly cultured and intelligent people, but there are also parts that are filled with shitty control freak religious zealots who'd scare the hell out of me, because I know what they are capable of. I learnt, a long time back, that many Arab minds function very differently to the Western mind. When you brainwash children from birth to hate Westerners, as happens out there in some countries, then you have walking bombs, because that hate goes so deep that the child who becomes the adult isn't even aware of it...It's like they're hypnotised...and when the fingers are clicked, they behave just as they've been trained to... And to those who will now scream "Racist!" at me, I am talking ONLY of the Extremists here...and yes, you also have complete nutters in other religions, because they are brought up, brainwashed in the same way...and few are able to break out of it... "Give me a child until he is seven and he is mine for life" I think the Jesuits say..... What you have to do is educate the children, but of course, you can't educate the female children, because if you do, they run the terrible risk of acid being thrown on them by the Taliban. These people do not deserve to live. Anyone who could do that to an innocent child does not deserve to live, in my opinion... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Islamic Protest in Wootton Bassett From: CarolC Date: 09 Jan 10 - 03:58 AM Well, Lizzie, the women of countries where that is happening, like Afghanistan and Pakistan, have said that they don't want the US or the UK to wage war in their countries. I think they are entitled to decide for themselves what they would prefer. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Islamic Protest in Wootton Bassett From: GUEST,999 Date: 09 Jan 10 - 04:03 AM What/which women have said this? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Islamic Protest in Wootton Bassett From: CarolC Date: 09 Jan 10 - 04:10 AM I've already posted (twice) an interview with a feminist and women's rights activist who has taken signatures of women in Afghanistan in a petition telling President Obama that they want our (US) troops out of their country. I have read things written by Pakistani women who say that want Pakistanis to solve the problems in Pakistan. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Islamic Protest in Wootton Bassett From: Ruth Archer Date: 09 Jan 10 - 05:00 AM "These people do not deserve to live. Anyone who could do that to an innocent child does not deserve to live, in my opinion..." And does it matter how many women and children Western governments are happy to eliminate as "collateral damage" in pursuit of them? If we're killing them, how are we any better than their "oppressors"? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Islamic Protest in Wootton Bassett From: CarolC Date: 09 Jan 10 - 05:13 AM And then there is the problem of the kind of track record the history of Western intervention in the Middle East has had. Whenever Western governments have gotten involved in the Middle East, the result has ultimately been greater repression rather than less. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Islamic Protest in Wootton Bassett From: Backwoodsman Date: 09 Jan 10 - 06:26 AM 'The Bookseller of Kabul' (Asne Seierstad) and 'Three Cups of Tea' (Greg Mortensen and David O. Relin) are good reads, and provide insightful, non-hysterical commentary on some of the issues raised in this thread. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Islamic Protest in Wootton Bassett From: Peter K (Fionn) Date: 09 Jan 10 - 07:24 AM Lizzie, what makes you sound suspiciously close to the BNP is your readiness to use phrases like we have become almost second class citizens in our own land. I know a few UK muslims who don't feel that at all, and certainly I don't feel it myself. But perhaps it wasn't "us" you were speaking for? I'd post links and words to it, but some folks in here suffer Total Hysteria about that, I think you have misunderstood Lizzie. No-one in this thread, nor anywhere else on Mudcat so far as I know, has ever objected to people providing links to their sources. Au contraire, the practice is positively encouraged. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Islamic Protest in Wootton Bassett From: The Sandman Date: 09 Jan 10 - 07:50 AM where to start. firstly Carol has a good point,frequently when western governments interfere in other countries they create or exarcebate problems. In Africa western imperialistic countries created problems, by creating boundaries regardless of tribal boundaries. lets look at the Christian religion, the catholic church has been abusing sexually and physically, for years. the Christian religion were the aggressors in The Crusades. that does not excuse ther muslim religion,but it puts a different perspective on the two religions. KEITH A andMGM,Please google.arming IRAQ,A CHRONOLOGY OF US INVOLVEMENT,byJohn King ,march 2003. it states quite clearly that Iraq was supplied nuclear, chemical and other weapons by various western governments. |