BS: Islamic Protest in Wootton Bassett

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic Protest in Wootton Bassett
From: Royston
Date: 10 Jan 10 - 09:09 AM

MtheGM,

Everyhing that Ruth said.

Nobody here ever denied the existence of terrorism.

It was claimed that "Muslims" - as a whole - were not speaking out against it. They are.

It was claimed that they don't do enough - for Lizzie - to get themselves heard. It is proven that they are doing a hell of a lot. Always have been. It is also proven that mainstream media works very hard to filter out those voices - even working hard to misrepresent those voices - whilst inventing and/or highlighting, with relish, the voices of the "minority extreme".

So, given that we all agree that there are terrorists out there and that there needs to be a proper perspective on that - so we can work together as a community to identify the guilty and protect the innocent - then it appears that Liz is in fact all chaff and no wheat.

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic Protest in Wootton Bassett
From: Folkiedave
Date: 10 Jan 10 - 09:12 AM

Don't f*cking call me Liz! OK? Got it? You sanctimonious, patronizing, holier than thou prat.

Lizzie, why don't I get an asterisk when you tell me to fuck off?

I feel quite hurt.

Dave

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic Protest in Wootton Bassett
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 10 Jan 10 - 09:19 AM

You are so obsessively unpleasant to me, that you are beneath an asterisk.


You know what I'd love to see? I'd love to see Good Islam out on the streets, en masse, around the world, holding up banners and shouting..."NOT in OURS or ALLAH'S name!!"

The message has not been getting out because their voices have not been raised loud enough. Let us hope that now, that will start to shout as never before.

Yusuf Islam has been trying his hardest to get the religious leaders to realise that THEY *have* to change from within, to start condemning those who are ruining the name of Islam....

At last it seems that some are finally listening to him....

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic Protest in Wootton Bassett
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 10 Jan 10 - 09:22 AM

Ruth: I think there is little, if any, disagreement between us. I simply thought it expedient to draw attention to a possible perceived complacency creeping in, in certain quarters and certain comments, as result of possible unconscious overreaction to some of Lizzie's occasionally irritating and incontinent overstatements.

Michael

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic Protest in Wootton Bassett
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 10 Jan 10 - 09:27 AM

Royston - what I just said to Ruth — except, absolutely NO wheat whatever among the chaff?; not even a itsy-bitsy·teeny-weeny·ickle-schmickle: Oh, go on...

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic Protest in Wootton Bassett
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 10 Jan 10 - 09:28 AM

"then it appears that Liz is in fact all chaff and no wheat."

Once again, do NOT call me Liz. There is only ONE person in Mudcat who is allowed to call me that. You are not they.

"It was claimed that "Muslims" - as a whole - were not speaking out against it. They are."

No, they are not.

But now their leaders are starting to speak out and talk total common sense, hopefully, that will start to happen more and more until their voices become so loud that they will be heard above every bomb still yet planned to be exploded.

What Imam Syed Soharwardy has stated, in calling for the fatwa against terrorists, is hugely important for every Islamic leader to act upon...

"...The Koran teaches us that we have an obligation to stop violence. We live in a non-Muslim country called Canada where Muslims and others live side by side, and this is our country, too.

"Our children are born here. Our future children will live here. That's why we have to oppose this violence..."

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic Protest in Wootton Bassett
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 10 Jan 10 - 09:30 AM

"And who and where was that done?"

How about when you dismissed the entire male populations of certain Muslim countries for apparently being happy to throw acid in the faces of women who do not conform? How about when you asked what "we" can do "to turn Islam BACK to peace?"


"I have been saying all along that if you don't love this country, then bloody well leave it."

What you actually said:

"If you don't like this country and it's laws, way of life, and religious beliefs, then find a country you do like and bugger off over there."

Would you be kind enough to define the religious beliefs of the UK? Which way(s) of life are we specifically talking about? Which laws? The laws that guarantee free speech and which are founded on the history of dissent? As there are clearly many different ways of life, many laws and many religions, which of us are you inviting to "bugger off over there"?

And as you clearly don't approve of the rights to express dissent which are enshrined in law and are a cornerstone of British democracy, maybe it's you that ought to be looking at relocating...

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic Protest in Wootton Bassett
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 10 Jan 10 - 09:30 AM

"as result of possible unconscious overreaction to some of Lizzie's occasionally irritating and incontinent overstatements.

Michael"


Personally, I've always regarded those who make statements such as that about others, as being full of shit.....and I move on from them...

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic Protest in Wootton Bassett
From: Folkiedave
Date: 10 Jan 10 - 09:39 AM

You are so obsessively unpleasant to me, that you are beneath an asterisk.

Just so that anyone else who reads this believes I am "obsessively unpleasant" to Lizzie.

I am obsessive that she writes the truth. I would have thought that was necessary in a community like this.

Those who might fleetingly think I am unpleasant as she says, may care to note that I have been told to "stick a turnip up my arse"; "Stick my head up my arse" and "Fuck Off Why Don't You".

This for simply pointing out that Lizzie is factually wrong. Something she never admits to.

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic Protest in Wootton Bassett
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 10 Jan 10 - 09:52 AM

"Those who might fleetingly think I am unpleasant as she says, may care to note that I have been told to "stick a turnip up my arse"; "Stick my head up my arse" and "Fuck Off Why Don't You"."


All richly deserved, actually, after many deeply personal and highly unpleasant insults from you.

In fact, under the circumstances, I'm incredibly restrained...

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic Protest in Wootton Bassett
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 10 Jan 10 - 10:10 AM

"How about when you dismissed the entire male populations of certain Muslim countries for apparently being happy to throw acid in the faces of women who do not conform?"

No, I said THE TALIBAN throw acid in the young girls faces...and the War Lords do equally appalling things...as was shown in the video I put up.

WHEN will you stop twisting my words for your own obsessive reasons?

I also stated that there is a dark misogyny that runs through Islam...and any man who did such terrible things to women doesnt' deserve to live. I stand by that.

"How about when you asked what "we" can do "to turn Islam BACK to peace?"

Yup....because it has become so poisoned by the Evil Bastards who have used the name of Islam to kill, rape and murder...But no worries, the Imams themselves are waking up to what they have to do, and I hope that wonderful letter above will soon be flying around the world to as many minds and hearts as possible.

There is much within Islam that is wrong...and until they get that right, they will always face opposition from around the world. It is wrong to beat women, it is wrong to rape them, to 'own' them, to keep them locked away, to dictate what they wear, to stone and behead, remove hands..etc..etc....and that has no part in today's world.

But hey, don't let that stop you from spinning and twisting, eh?

Yeesh!

And YOU are in charge of FAF????

Double bloody Yeesh!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic Protest in Wootton Bassett
From: CarolC
Date: 10 Jan 10 - 10:22 AM

The good voices have been too quiet for too long, but now, it would seem...and especially with the Canadian Imams now issuing a Fatwa against Terrorists, that they are beginning to realise that their religion is being so deeply harmed by these Extremists.

This kind of comment, though, is a part of the way Muslims have been getting smeared for years. The good voices have not been quiet. Muslims have been speaking out against extremist Muslims for a long time. The problem is that in its ongoing efforts to put Muslims in a bad light, the media has been unwilling to report on these efforts when they take place. I have for years been posting links here in the Mudcat to examples of Muslims doing just what you say they have not been doing. And whenever I've done that, the people who share your attitude - that Muslims have been silent about Muslim extremists - people whose first impulse is always to think the worst about Muslims, have completely ignored me... because people want to believe what they want to believe about Muslims, regardless of the truth.

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic Protest in Wootton Bassett
From: CarolC
Date: 10 Jan 10 - 10:31 AM

There is much within Islam that is wrong...and until they get that right, they will always face opposition from around the world. It is wrong to beat women, it is wrong to rape them, to 'own' them, to keep them locked away, to dictate what they wear, to stone and behead, remove hands..etc..etc....and that has no part in today's world.

Where, Lizzie, is your voice against Hinduism, which has an equally misogynistic component among many of its practitioners?

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic Protest in Wootton Bassett
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 10 Jan 10 - 10:58 AM

Ah, Hinduism - to which file to the Tamils belong I wonder. Saw a Tamil mob gathering at a music festival in Croydon last summer, reminded me a bit of the mods & rockers fiasco in the 1960s!

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic Protest in Wootton Bassett
From: Folkiedave
Date: 10 Jan 10 - 11:06 AM

All richly deserved, actually, after many deeply personal and highly unpleasant insults from you.

Since you believe there are "many", list three like I have done.

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic Protest in Wootton Bassett
From: Royston
Date: 10 Jan 10 - 11:21 AM

I aspire to be regarded by Liz as obsessively unpleasant. And I think I have discovered a fast track to it, Haven't I? Liz?

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic Protest in Wootton Bassett
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 10 Jan 10 - 11:29 AM

"The good voices have not been quiet."

Their leaders have, Carol...and it is the leaders who will be heard the loudest..

And I have posted many links to wonderful things said by Israeli Jews and groups made up of Muslims AND Jews who are all working for peace in Israel, so I'm sorry, but I take umbridge at your remarks there because you ignored those posts, as you have a very different view of Israel to me.

ANY religion that abuses women or deals out violence to those who don't believe...or don't do as they are told, is despicable. This thread though is about the Islamic protest, which, thankfully, has now been cancelled....and those within Islam4UK are now in trouble..

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic Protest in Wootton Bassett
From: Lox
Date: 10 Jan 10 - 11:31 AM

I'm not a racist, I just agree with racist opinions.

I'm not a homophobe, I just think that homosexuality shoud be repressed.

I hate the BNP, its just a coincidence that our views are the same.

Besides, my reasons for having those views are 'clever', whereas the BNP are morons.



Does anyone recognize this line of thought?

perhaps those of you who basically say the same thing?



Time for some people to try and climb out of the box.

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic Protest in Wootton Bassett
From: CarolC
Date: 10 Jan 10 - 11:56 AM

"The good voices have not been quiet."

Their leaders have, Carol...and it is the leaders who will be heard the loudest..

No, their leaders have not, Lizzie. But you and most of the rest of the people who are so eager to paint Muslims in the worst possible light have totally ignored them when they have spoken out, many, many, many times in the past. As I said before, I have for years been posting links here in the Mudcat to Muslims, most especially Muslim leaders, speaking out against Muslim extremism.

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic Protest in Wootton Bassett
From: CarolC
Date: 10 Jan 10 - 12:10 PM

And I have posted many links to wonderful things said by Israeli Jews and groups made up of Muslims AND Jews who are all working for peace in Israel, so I'm sorry, but I take umbridge at your remarks there because you ignored those posts, as you have a very different view of Israel to me.


What are you suggesting here, Lizzie? Are you saying that I have cricized you for not acknowledging the good things that are being done by many Israeli Jews to help bring about peace in Israel? If that is what you are suggesting, please provide some evidence of this.

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic Protest in Wootton Bassett
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 10 Jan 10 - 12:18 PM

Carol, that letter, and idea, from Canada's Imam Soharwardy is something wildly different...and wonderful.

You know it, I know it.



Lox...who has views like the BNP in here? Have I, or anyone else, stated a hatred for 'foreigners'? Have I, or anyone else, stated a hatred for folks with different colour skin?

Nope, I've merely said love us or leave us...over and over...and that goes for anyone who wants to cause trouble in my country, or blow up any of my fellow countrymen (of any colour or religion) or those around the world. Evil people can bugger off...and that is NOT racist, for heaven's sake.

May I politely suggest you grow up and stop throwing the racist word around willynilly.

I loathed the IRA scum who caused such terrible suffering with their intense, obsessive hatreds...and I deeply admired the Irish who went on marches for Peace...particularly the Irish women who tried so hard to stop the bombers and the hatred.

No-one has the right to bring terror to the world in the way that is now happening.

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic Protest in Wootton Bassett
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 10 Jan 10 - 12:22 PM

No, Carol, you didn't criticise me, you simply ignored the facts and carried on posting about how wrong Israel was/is and how terrible the Palestinian problems were/are.

There are two sides to everything...and just as Dave now gets short shrift from me, because of his obsessive undermining of nearly all that I say, so Palestine is suffering the consequences of years of Israel suffering at the hands of terrorists...

Excuse me now, but I'm off to post Imam Soharwardy's letter to a few people and do my bit to help him spread the word..

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic Protest in Wootton Bassett
From: CarolC
Date: 10 Jan 10 - 12:22 PM

Carol, that letter, and idea, from Canada's Imam Soharwardy is something wildly different...and wonderful.

You know it, I know it.

No, Lizzie. You are entirely wrong about that. It is not different or new. Muslim leaders have been doing things like that for a very long time. I have provided many links to them doing it. If you choose to ignore what they've been doing for a long time, that is proof of your need paint Muslims in the worst possible light.

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic Protest in Wootton Bassett
From: CarolC
Date: 10 Jan 10 - 12:26 PM

No, Carol, you didn't criticise me, you simply ignored the facts and carried on posting about how wrong Israel was/is and how terrible the Palestinian problems were/are.

Lizzie, I am beginning to come to the conclusion that you can't tell the difference between the truth and a lie. The vast majority of my posts on the subject of Palestine/Israel are either about the wonderful things Jews and Israeli Jews are doing to help promote freedom for Palestinians, or they are written by Jews who are trying to help promote freedom for Palestinians. The fact that you have chosen to ignore this also, shows that you are eager to paint me in the worst possible light, and you are willing to lie to do it.

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic Protest in Wootton Bassett
From: CarolC
Date: 10 Jan 10 - 12:38 PM

...and I have on numerous occasions, said that the Jews who are doing this work (and I have said that they are working very hard and making enormous sacrifices), have my, and deserve our, eternal gratitude.

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic Protest in Wootton Bassett
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 10 Jan 10 - 01:06 PM

Eh?

but when we used to stand up for Israel, you said they were committing genocide on Palestine...

There are reams of posts from you about that, Carol...masses of heated arguments too.

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic Protest in Wootton Bassett
From: Folkiedave
Date: 10 Jan 10 - 01:17 PM

All richly deserved, actually, after many deeply personal and highly unpleasant insults from you.

When challenged to provide three examples of deeply personal and highly unpleasant insults.........................

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic Protest in Wootton Bassett
From: CarolC
Date: 10 Jan 10 - 01:18 PM

I am very, very surprised that you would conflate the use of the term "government of Israel" with "Jew", Lizzie. There is a vast difference between the government of Israel and Jews, just as there is a vast difference between al Qaeda and Muslims.

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic Protest in Wootton Bassett
From: CarolC
Date: 10 Jan 10 - 01:26 PM

I remind you of your original comment bringing Jews into the equation:

And I have posted many links to wonderful things said by Israeli Jews and groups made up of Muslims AND Jews who are all working for peace in Israel, so I'm sorry, but I take umbridge at your remarks there because you ignored those posts, as you have a very different view of Israel to me.

It's not about Jews, and never has been. Not only have I never framed the issue as being about Jews, I have consistently maintained that it is not about Jews. It is about governments. In the case of Israel, it is about an imperialist, colonialist, largely European government that is committing crimes against an indigenous population. Whether or not that government is Jewish is totally irrelevant. And that's also how it should be with Muslims.

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic Protest in Wootton Bassett
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 10 Jan 10 - 01:32 PM

"When challenged to provide three examples of deeply personal and highly unpleasant insults......................... "

There's no need. Folks can just click on your name and read post after post after post of obsessiveness, Dave. It's that simple.


You know something, Carol....I ain't getting into yet more obsessiveness..Really, it's OK, you go ahead and say whatever you want about me. It'll be far easier than "You said, I said, you said' all the time...and as you, and a few others have it in your dear little heads that I'm racist, and are determined to prove it, I'll leave you all to it.

As far as I'm concerned, this thread should now be closed..and as I started this thread, I think I'm at liberty to request that.

The topic for which it was started has had the approriate ending and the march at Wootton Bassett has now been stopped, the people behind it being investigated for terrorist propaganda on their site and in other things they have written...and most importantly, the people of Wootton Bassett and the families of the soldiers concerned have been spared yet more grief.

Also, the Far Right has been denied an opportunity which I am sure will have upset them a great deal.

So, all in all, a good result all round.



Joe, could this thread now be closed, please.

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic Protest in Wootton Bassett
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 10 Jan 10 - 01:46 PM

Joe, could this thread now be closed, please.

So you can then go off on one about how the Mudcat censors your threads? Were you not, only a few posts back, telling Joe to take no notice of the ones who were suggesting that he should take some sort of action? Now you are doing exactly the same thing.

You realy deserve a prize, Liz, and don't you wish you hadn't told someone not to call you that now? Start a thread. Loose the point. Go off on a tangent. loose that point. Realise you were wrong in the first place. Go off on a rant about how everyone is against you. Change the subject seventeen times. Rant about how the Mudcat and everyone else in the world is wrong. Attempt to prove the point by getting yourself censured. And so it goes in every single bloody thread!

We have had sensible discussions, Liz, so I do know that you are capable of rational thought and some very kind thoughts. What happens? Is it a disorder of some sort? Medication? What is the trigger? I would love to know.

Cheers

DeG

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic Protest in Wootton Bassett
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 10 Jan 10 - 01:52 PM

"We have had sensible discussions, Liz, so I do know that you are capable of rational thought and some very kind thoughts. What happens? Is it a disorder of some sort? Medication? What is the trigger? I would love to know."

Seems I am capable of far kinder thoughts than you.


No, I just felt that this thread spiralling into Israel and Palestine would be pretty pointless, but you're right...keep it open and then you, Dave...and folks like you, can use the name you know upsets me, so you can get your spiteful kicks out of it.

All you need to know is the one person who is allowed to call me that is a person who would never dream of hurting me, ridiculing me, verbally abusing me, or calling me a racist.

You carry on with your spite though, don't let me stop your enjoyment.

Joe, can you please keep their playground open for them after all, thanks.

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic Protest in Wootton Bassett
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 10 Jan 10 - 01:58 PM

But Liz - Lizzie is not even your real name is it? Why would the diminutive bit of a made up name upset you? And a pound to a penny you will be back!

DeG

Who is a David but the el Gnomo bit is made up. Everyne who matters knows it was originaly Polakow, is now Polshaw and I don't get the least bit up upset at any variation:-)

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic Protest in Wootton Bassett
From: Folkiedave
Date: 10 Jan 10 - 02:07 PM

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic Protest in Wootton Bassett
From: Lizzie Cornish 1 - PM
Date: 10 Jan 10 - 01:32 PM

Joe, could this thread now be closed, please.

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic Protest in Wootton Bassett
From: Lizzie Cornish 1 - PM
Date: 10 Jan 10 - 01:52 PM

Joe, can you please keep their playground open for them after all, thanks.

I seem to remember a couple of things I posted earlier

1. That Lizzie would predictably accuse me of following her around. In fact anyone who reads what I have said will see that my first post was nothing whatsoever to do with Lizzie and later I only posted in response to a story about muslim churches and a mosque that she posted that was patently untrue.

2. That she had a history of contradicting herself. However 20 minutes is a new record.

Well done Lizzie!

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic Protest in Wootton Bassett
From: Smedley
Date: 10 Jan 10 - 02:26 PM

If a certain name is out of bounds, how about Beth ? Betty ?

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic Protest in Wootton Bassett
From: Rasener
Date: 10 Jan 10 - 03:57 PM

This is all so childish. Get a knicker grip folks.

Maybe there should be a vote to say Yes that the protest should go ahead versus No it shouldn't.

And when thats done shut the thread down.

Whats the point of Mudcatters slagging each other off. I thought we were meant to be friends. :-)

So My vote is NO

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic Protest in Wootton Bassett
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Jan 10 - 04:03 PM

I agree Villan, It's time to close this thread. It has become sad and sore. I vote NO. Regarding Lizzie Cornish, I vote YES. She took a stand and fought her corner well. I agree with everything she said. Why should people have to explain themselves for being British and proud ?

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic Protest in Wootton Bassett
From: Rasener
Date: 10 Jan 10 - 04:09 PM

GUEST
You are not allowed to vote. So not counted.

So its still one NO

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic Protest in Wootton Bassett
From: Royston
Date: 10 Jan 10 - 04:28 PM

Well the decision is taken out of our hands - it is not going ahead.

But if there were a referendum I would vote "NO". I have never advocated unbridled free speech.

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic Protest in Wootton Bassett
From: Rasener
Date: 10 Jan 10 - 04:56 PM

Well thank goodness for that Roysten.

I bet if we stopped having a go at each other, most people would vote NO

Or am I wrong!

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic Protest in Wootton Bassett
From: Royston
Date: 10 Jan 10 - 05:16 PM

I like to think so, Les, but the argument was not about should it or should it not happen, it was about the bigotry behind some assertions that a lot of innocent people ought to carry the shame and guilt of those cranks. That was wrong.

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic Protest in Wootton Bassett
From: Lox
Date: 10 Jan 10 - 06:15 PM

"Lox...who has views like the BNP in here? Have I, or anyone else, stated a hatred for 'foreigners'? Have I, or anyone else, stated a hatred for folks with different colour skin?"

Actually, the BNP deny that they hate foreigners and they also deny hating people with different coloured skin.

They do misrepresent moslems and express the view that "if they don't lke it here they should leave".

So far that sounds pretty similar to what you've written in this thread

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic Protest in Wootton Bassett
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 10 Jan 10 - 06:39 PM

Tell me this then, clever clogs...if you think that I think as the BNP do, then why am I one of the people they've targetted in Facebook and in Myspace?

Geez, Lox, lately you take my breath away with your insulting posts. Take a look at my posts about the BNP in other threads before you start making accusations.

And I did not say 'they' as in 'Muslims' so don't misrepresent what I said. I said if *anyone* hates my country, then *they* can bugger off out of it. That means anyone of any colour or religion or creed. If you love this country, then fine...absolutely wonderful, welcome with open arms, but if you come to spread hatred, to take revenge, then no, bugger off and leave my country alone, because my country stands for fairness, tolerance, kindness and compassion, and I am fair fed up to my back teeth of people who constantly want to talk us down and make out we've nowt but bad history in our history, be they from thousands of miles away, or the bloke next door who's lived here for ten generations.

Do NOT spin what I say.

Now please, take your 'I know everyone's a secret BNP supporter except me, 'cos I am so damn smart and smug!' values and shove them where the sun wouldn't even want to shine, even if it could, because you are beginning to really hack me off....

I am not racist, not do I believe in 'class' which, if my memory serves me correctly, you do. I see people's souls, not their colours or backgrounds..and I respect their voices rather than their silences...I also fully support the new Fatwa against terrorists who are using Allah's name...

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic Protest in Wootton Bassett
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 10 Jan 10 - 06:43 PM

'Liz' said:

"bugger off and leave my country alone, because my country stands for fairness, tolerance..."


Oh the irony. Just like silvery and goldy, dontcha know.

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic Protest in Wootton Bassett
From: GUEST,999
Date: 10 Jan 10 - 06:51 PM

When people are quoted out of context, they can be made to look bad.

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic Protest in Wootton Bassett
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 10 Jan 10 - 06:55 PM

Except that I have made this point repeatedly: Britain DOES stand for tolerance. And free speech. And it defends the right to dissent. So when some (rather reactionary) people try and "protect" British culture by suggesting that anyone with "unacceptable" views should leave the country, there is a deep irony in their failure to grasp even the fundamental structures on which their democracy is founded.

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic Protest in Wootton Bassett
From: Lox
Date: 10 Jan 10 - 06:59 PM

I know Lizzie doesn't support the BNP.

I am joining the ranks of thse catters who wish she would stop and think before she posts.

Lizzie would be a great friend if you were in trouble. She'd fight for you whether you were right or wrong.

But sometimes you need to pause and reflect on which battles you want to fight that way.

Sometimes it takes strength to acknowledge you have made a mistake and move on.

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic Protest in Wootton Bassett
From: Rasener
Date: 10 Jan 10 - 07:01 PM

Anybody going to stop bickering and state clearly whether they support the protest or not.

I doubt it as you are all too insensed trying to blame each other.

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic Protest in Wootton Bassett
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 10 Jan 10 - 07:12 PM

Villan, it's academic at this stage, but I stated toward the beginning of the thread that, much as I might disagree with what Choudary has to say, I support his right to protest peacefully. I also supported the BBC in their decision to put Nick Griffin on Question Time. You can't change the rules just because you don't like what somebody has to say. When we curtail our own domestic civil liberties in order to silence specific factions in society, the terrorists have won.

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic Protest in Wootton Bassett
From: Rasener
Date: 10 Jan 10 - 07:15 PM

So thats a YES then Ruth.

No problem with that. :-)