Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance

Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 11 Feb 10 - 06:51 AM

I repeat. The fist lie and personal attack on the thread was -

Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?
From: Lizzie Cornish 1 - PM
Date: 26 Jan 10 - 03:05 PM

Shite! Diane put a Show of Who? link in!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It's TRUE, she DOES have Show of Who? knickers!

I didn't dare believe the rumour, of course, but now....



WOW!

But of course this will be ignored because it is far easier to believe that one is being attcked because of some conspiricy that it is to believe that one is being attacked because one deserves it.

Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: GUEST,Mad Spaniel
Date: 11 Feb 10 - 06:36 AM

Too right Topcatbanjo.

I've written things and people have not agreed with me, thats their perogative (spelling not good!)but i am willing to listen to their opinion.

Lizzie is just not playing the game. Making it about her, if she wants to get back to a show of hands discussion she should SHUT UP

This thread should be about Show of hands. Fan or not you have to admire their balls though I also think some of the images in the video are CGI'd. Be interesting to know if they are or not?

Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Flashmeister
Date: 11 Feb 10 - 06:30 AM

The thing is though although SoH do indeed have a message in their music about the state of society it does become crowded and lost amongst the bangs and whistles and bombastic style that they heap on top of what, when pared down, is a better song for being able to hear the narrative.
They're not the only ones, Woodie Guthrie, Leon Rosselson, Dick Gaughan, Pete Seeger and Mr.Bragg as well as people like Tommy Armstrong the pit poet and reams and reams of others have been doing it for years. Songs like the World turned Upside Down et al are played across the country every week and I know contemporary musicians who write political songs still - but what has changed? Yes there is a problem with society and yes SoH tackling it their own way and standing up against bankers and other assorted parasitic creatures is ok by me - what I object to is blantant self-publicity and a whole load of panto and faffing about which clouds the issue.
It all just makes me cringe a wee bit.

Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: GUEST,johnp
Date: 11 Feb 10 - 06:22 AM

Show of hands are talented musicians who produce some interesting material. They do it for a living and good luck to them.

Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: TopcatBanjo
Date: 11 Feb 10 - 06:14 AM

As a relative newcomer to this board, and after a few years' experience belonging to other forums (fora?) could one of the old hands on here please enlighten me:

- What does it take to get banned on this board?
- I know the technology seems a bit basic on here compared to most forum set-ups, but is there not an option for an "ignore" button so that one can block certain posters' contributions from view? Denied "the oxygen of publicity" they would not get the reactions they so clearly crave.......

Just a couple of thoughts from an astonished newbie...

Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 11 Feb 10 - 06:11 AM

Add up how many posts were attacking me..and bob's yer answer, john. Until you've had blatant lies written down on here about you, which they know I'll respond to, you won't even start to understand.

Tell you what though, instead of making posts like that, why don't you post something about Show of Hands...

Say for instance.........

..that one in 5 shops in many of our towns are now empty. And that so many others are charity shops, who take over the High Streets....that people aren't even going to shops as they used, buying online instead...

Write about how Steve and Phil have been trying to get people to think about this for YEARS, encouraging folks to buy local produce, support their local shops, post offices...

Listen to The Cold Heart of England, or Country Life, or even Roots....then listen again to Arrogance Ignorance & Greed, and think of all the greedy councils who've bled shop owners dry, banks who no longer support small businesses, give out mortgages, or lend money at vast rates that people can't afford to repay...

In fact...talk about ANYTHING to do with Show of Haands and leave me alone!

OK?

Got it?

GREAT!!!!!!!


And if you lot CANNOT rechannel your obsessive hatreds elsewhere, then again, perhaps it's best this thread is closed down.


And well done to Billy Bragg, but hey, I didn't see that on the news.
I didn't see it plastered all over the media, on the radio, primetime slots....

Why?

Because Billy would start a massive Rebellion, that's why! So the Powers That Be keep it away from the proles, whilst giving them ladeedadeeda music to listen to, to keep them happy and stop them from thinking..


And if you feel the overwhelming urge to purge your problems on me, stop...and read this instead...redirect your thoughs, just for once!


ANTHEM FOR DISSENT
By Ann Onimus, John Boncore and Ron Bankley

United in fear we trade freedom, our prize for the Patriot Act as united we securitize
United in power over patriarchy, we misogynize
United in self-righteous arrogance, we imperialise
Untied in degenerate genital mutilation, we circumcise
United we consume and spend, and, united, we capitalize
United in greed we exploit, as united we multinationalize
United we commit economic suicide as, united, we globalise
United in beligerent violence, we waste trillions as, united, we militarize
United we massacre millions and think we're so brave, united we fantasize
United we bomb, destroy, maim, mass murder, slaughter and terrorize
United in massive denial we look the other way, as united, we atrocitize
United in 'might makes right', we dominate and, united, we hegemonize
United we pillage the third world and then, united, we moralize
United we covet their resources and, united, we monopolize
United in total denial we deny that, united, we brutalize
United we believe without question the star spangled propaganda our leaders so unceasingly televise
United we, so very obediently, swallow the many fabricated red white and blue lies
United we're so blind, with closed eyes except wide-eyed Ashcroft spies
And in the many resource rich countries that, united, we occupy and we colonize, and united we impoverish and victimize
Yet another corporate billion is pried and yet another heart broken mother cries and yet another star spangled bomb drops
And yet another innocent child heinously dies
Yet another example of united we collateralize
Just U.S. business as usual, as united we privatize
United we stand completely deranged
Global terrorist in our 'freedom and democracy' disguise
As united we stand apathetic and complicit in American terrorism
As united we turn on TV to de-sensitise
As united we stand in massive denial
As united we ignore the innocent pleas of the innocent ones we exterminate
As united we stand inanely pledging allegiance to the flag of facist terrorism
As their blood on it dries
As united we stand, surrendering our freedom to the real 'axis of evil' Corporation, CIA, and Military guise
As united we stand with our heads in the sand, as the American Fourth Reich is born
And freedom dies
As united we stand so comfortably numb and deniably dumb
That united we don't have sense to realise
That united we stand on the brink of the New World Order totalitarian police state
United we are so......Blind


Then...buy Ron Bankley's brilliant CD 'Insurgent Sun' where you can hear that very track, amongst many other superb and intelligent songs....and OPEN YOUR EYES!

Thank you!

Ron Bankley - Myspace


Bloody Yeesh!!!!!!!!!!

Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Hamish
Date: 11 Feb 10 - 06:00 AM

Just looked at the YouTube: excellent song, brilliant video. That is all.

Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: GUEST,johnp
Date: 11 Feb 10 - 05:39 AM

lizzie cornish has sent 21% of the posts to this thread. Is this some sort of record

Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 11 Feb 10 - 04:45 AM

Good link to start with for anyone, like me, who does not know what BB was doing! Good for him. Far more effective than whinging on an internet chat site I reckon:-)

DeG

Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 10 Feb 10 - 02:16 PM

Arrogance, Ignorance and Greed isn't over the top

If I recall, the OP's complaint was that the publicity for the song was making a mess and that it isn't "f*lk" anyway. All very true. So?
However, if you're talking about wanker-bankers' AIG behaviour, yes it is over the top. Obviously. Respect to Billy Bragg for getting out there, literally on his soapbox, to shame the government into forcing the banks to cut the bonuses.

Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 10 Feb 10 - 02:01 PM

First personal attack and lie in the thread...

Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?
From: Lizzie Cornish 1 - PM
Date: 26 Jan 10 - 03:05 PM

Shite! Diane put a Show of Who? link in!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It's TRUE, she DOES have Show of Who? knickers!

I didn't dare believe the rumour, of course, but now....



WOW!

How come the calls for thread closure only come in 2 weeks later I wonder?

Some people really do take the biscuit.

DeG

Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: GUEST,mad spaniel
Date: 10 Feb 10 - 01:56 PM

thats my dads fiddle in the fiddlers dram video-apparently

Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Edthefolkie
Date: 10 Feb 10 - 01:49 PM

As usual, Shakespeare had a few words for threads like this one.

"O monstrous! but one half-penny-worth of bread to this intolerable deal of sack!" (Henry IV pt 1)

No, Arrogance, Ignorance and Greed isn't over the top - so there. (Former banker).

Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 10 Feb 10 - 01:49 PM

Good band, good song, good video.

But 276 posts to this thread, mostly squabbling.

Still, I'd have missed seeing the vid without it.

Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 10 Feb 10 - 01:39 PM

Just in case anyone was in any doubt about the popularity of the Oysters BL (before Lizzie) -

Fiddlers Dram, 1979

Recognise anyone?

How about 10 years later?


:D

Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: GUEST,Lizzie Cornish
Date: 10 Feb 10 - 01:36 PM

"When I queried it once before, Lizzie wrote a whole page about me on Myspace. I complained. It was taken down. Shame in one sense. It was making me a lot of friends."


Just to clarify. No such thing ever happened, first because I have never written a whole paragraph, let alone a whole page about this person, and because no blog of mine has ever been taken down by Myspace.

Yeesh, what a load of utter, lying bullshit.

Again, this thread is best closed down now, because when it gets to the stage where lies and personal attacks are all that is in a thread, I don't really see the point anymore.


Thank you.

Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Folkiedave
Date: 10 Feb 10 - 09:40 AM

In fairness Lizzie and Sam never agreed that they had appropriated the work of others and then marked it:

""sam-and-lizzie
All Rights Reserved"

They just avoided the question. As Lizzie has just done again.
And be careful of using the term "folk police". When I queried it once before, Lizzie wrote a whole page about me on Myspace. I complained. It was taken down. Shame in one sense. It was making me a lot of friends.

Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 10 Feb 10 - 09:30 AM

So, if anyone had not already gathered, if you do not agree with Liz you are a souless moron, superglued to a chair, with not an ounce of passion in you. If you go to concerts, go to folk clubs, run folk clubs, run festivals, dance, perform or do anything of any use whatsoever you are 'the folk police'. It is only by writing, on a forum already dedicated to folk music, about how good that the music that you like is, can your soul be saved. Ah well. Good job I wrote that bit about TT. Maybe there is hope for me. Just think. 30 years of organising, arranging, singing, dancing and playing gone to waste.

Wonder if I can improve on anyones performace, like Liz does when she brought passion into the music of Show of Hands too... It is quite amazing that they won best duo. not only do they have an extra performer gigging with them somethimes. They also have Liz bringing passion to their music. I often wondered how they did it...

DeG

More seriously - I think if I see any more such arrogance and ignorance I will loose the will to live:-) Good job she is not greedy as well!

Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Flashmeister
Date: 10 Feb 10 - 09:29 AM

I think you'll find I only entered this absolute shower of a thread because I had my two pennies worth to unload re. AIG and SoH's music in general but sadly a comment i made was distorted beyond comprehension and the resultant 'i don't need your permission to like folk' flannel ensued.

Lizzie again, i was not giving permission to like folk(!) i was saying that i welcome those who enjoy and participate in it. Every week i see musicians and singers both establised and novice in my session and make a point of encouraging everyone to get involved even if just bellowing out the chorus of a shanty from the sidelines or doorway, it is fantastic what a little encouragement and openess can do and many who began as listeners now regularly participate all due making folk and yes, trad music, accessible and above all enjoyable - those 'wizzened wrinklies' (sic) you refer to SoH now pandering to are the very people who perpetuate these songs and trad history and without them there would be no SoH or Seth Lakeman and the like.
As for this daft strain about never writing about my music and 'reassuring' me of that, it is sad that you would dismiss it out of hand based simply on an online forum conversation. If you ever heard it you might like it, you might hate it but to just dismiss something with utter blind ignorance of it's merit or lack of it to me is the canker of a closed and narrow mind.
My name is Aisling Austin - I will be playing in the summer at a two day local folk festival here in Bedfordshire - come and see me,have a good time, discover some new bands/musicians, make an informed decision.....THEN don't write about it :-D

mind thee I'm not a 'new discovery' of an already longstanding and much publicised folk/pop band am I?

Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 10 Feb 10 - 09:28 AM

Lizzie you need a reality check, you were banned from the BBC board for writing endless reams of drivel mainly about SOH and Seth Lakeman, you weren't call ' the Cornish binge poster ' for nothing were you ?

Dave H

Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Folkiedave
Date: 10 Feb 10 - 09:26 AM

I know that I am a free dog, who is able to walk away from cruel words and untruths,

Can I just ask - does that mean you are leaving again? I wondered how long we are safe for.

Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Emma B
Date: 10 Feb 10 - 09:23 AM

"I do agree with you that The Albion Chronicles is a wonderful site"

- and indeed it should have been; it blatantly appropiated all the best writings about folk music from various sources with no attribution for the original author or source

oh! apart from.......

"sam-and-lizzie
All Rights Reserved"

of course Lizzie you missed out the critique

"the overall effect is that of drowning in rose-water while being beaten over the head with rolls of Laura Ashley wallpaper."

which was one of the kindest descriptions I thought :)

and remember the (now defunct) "songs for swingng lovers" part of the Chronicles -

otherwise known as Copy and Paste 'R Us

plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose!

Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: GUEST,Lizzie Cornish
Date: 10 Feb 10 - 08:59 AM

"Barking."

Nope, for despite being kicked like a dog, by those who regard themselves as my ruthless ownwers, I know that I am a free dog, who is able to walk away from cruel words and untruths, with my tail wagging high in the air, for no-one has the right to kick me as you lot do.

Woof, bloody woof.

Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: GUEST,Lizzie Cornish
Date: 10 Feb 10 - 08:55 AM

Thanks Emma, I'd forgotten the link on that thread that went to the BBC board...and here, from that thread..

>>by theleveller (U3050883) , Sep 20, 2006

Hi Lizzie

I do agree with you that The Albion Chronicles is a wonderful site, although I haven't had time to fully explore it, and thank you for bringing it to our attention.

The point I was making was that this celebration of England is not a new phenomenon. You can trace it back through the 40's with H V Morton's book 'In Search of England' and the sequel 'I Saw Two Englands', through the fantastic Batsford books of the 20's and 30's with authors such as H E Bates, to the turn of the century with the Highways and Byways series.

I suppose there has been a revival more recently, largely thanks to visionary campaigners like Roger Deakin, and it's fantastic that this is all being brought together in Albion Chronicles. How many more pieces could you think of that could be included? My list is practically endless. <<<


There was some lovely discussion about the sites on there..

Yes, Sam would have put Folk Against Facism on there, he used to watch Mudcat all the time, so he'd know about it. No big deal.

Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 10 Feb 10 - 08:50 AM

Barking.

Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: GUEST,Lizzie Cornish
Date: 10 Feb 10 - 08:50 AM

And...I'm STAGGERED that in all the thousands of words on here that you've all used against me, not ONE word have you written about 'Arrogance, Ignorance & Greed'


??????????????????????????????????????????


Weird, huh? ;0)

Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: GUEST,Lizzie Cornish
Date: 10 Feb 10 - 08:48 AM

"And reminding people of your diatribe against them - a band you've never even seen - à propos of absolutely nothing.."

Then put this diatribe on here, Diane...I'm really interested to see it, as I've never written it..I started a thread ages back, praising The Imagined Village, put links in, the whole palaver. It was removed..

And while you're there, ask the Imagined Village myspace person to release their music out into Myspace, because they have it fixed so you cannot transfer their music to your page...which is crazy.

Ho hum...


Personally, I think this thread needs to be closed, as it's going nowhere, other than messing up this forum....but I'll leave that to Joe.

Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: GUEST,Lizzie Cornish
Date: 10 Feb 10 - 08:43 AM

I have been calling Diane 'Sweetums' for 6 years now, just as she calls me 'The Sidmouth Seagull' or 'MadLizzieCornish'....You have to have 'been there' to understand. I will continue to do so, as will she.

Thank you, but I do not your permission to like folk music. I have been around it for years, written about it for years..and my ex-husband was one of the directors of the new Sidmouth Folk Week, back in 2005. One amongst many, who stepped forward to help out. I wrote 15,000 words about Sidmouth that year, just something that 'happened' when I was walking around the town, seeing all the beauty..and so I transferred it to the BBC site, where a lot of people enjoyed reading it...It was fun...but it was also hard work, as I dashed around all over....

6 years later, I couldn't give a toss about Sidmouth Folk Week...because of the witch hunt that the people you see on here launched against me, which ended in my freedom of speech being taken away from me on the BBC, despite those people breaking every single House Rule on the BBC board.

As far as your music goes, I was not being rude, I was merely responding to your concern about me ever writing about your music. I won't be. That's not dissing your music in any way. I've never even heard it. I just won't ever write about it, so you can rest easy. It was said to reassure you.

As far as Boysies and Girlies go, I'll keep them too, if you don't mind, because they help to counter balance the seriously serious crap that English Folk Music is surrounded by, so lightheartedness goes a long way to bring in the sparkle again, as does a rollicking great sense of humour.

If I choose to swoon over those Shropshire Bedlam Boysies, then swoon I shall...and believe you me, there were more than a few maidens on Sidmouth Sea Front that summer who could barely stand up!

John Kirkpatrick sought to bring in a little sunshine to the serious side of morris..and boy, did he succeed!! ;0)

Yeah, I write about passion, and I bring in sex and a little rock n roll here and there, and why the hell not? The music is passionate, filled with sexual stories and maidens letting those knights in through their windows.

I see the Phwooooooar! Factor, and I write about it, and it drives the Folk Police nuts, because they want to 'appreciate' it stuck on their chairs with superglue, never moving a muscle, never having any thoughts of Cecil and Maudie on their Collective Nights Under the Stars...Nope, they only see the dates, hear the notes, decide whether the beat is correct...

I brought passion into the music of Show of Hands too...so what? Some of their songs are wonderfully passionate...Nowt wrong with that...

hell, it saddens me that they've now joined ranks with the wizzened wrinklies who keep English folk music up their own arses...but each to their own...They wanna listen to Brad, so be it..

Their music still brings passion to me though, because I feel very much as they do about the crap that is going down in this world right now..and how we are NOT all out on the streets about it, because our voices have been taken away...

On the BBC board I was asked to stop writing about 'social issues' because it was upsetting the Moanming Minnies, well fuck them, they NEED to be upset, because we are all going to hell on a handcart if we don't open our eyes to the Arrogance, the Ignorance and The Greed that has stifled REAL life for so very long....

Hear No Evil
See No Evil
Speak of No Evil

And you pretty much end up with Great Britain in 2010, along with vast areas of the rest of the world...


And when someone DOES write about YOUR music like that, you will know that you have 'made it' as a songwriter, because to be able to inspire, to anger, to open eyes with your words is always the sign of a strong songwriter. Steve Knightley is exactly that, and I don't give a flying rat's arse if people disagree with me or not, because that is how I feel, and it is my right to say and feel that way.

this does NOT mean that I swoon over Steve, I do NOT. But I believe in giving credit where credit is due, and when Steve gets a song right, he gets it VERY right.

I hope that Ian Anderson has now seen the light on this one, and will at long last stop dillydallying around and give Show of Hands the coverage they deserve...

And I say that IN SPITE OF Phil's letter and all your nastiness in here, because I have the guts to stand up for what I believe.

Thank you.

Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 10 Feb 10 - 08:40 AM

Plugging the Gloworms? Nah, I was drawing attention to next month's US showcases from Laurel Swift & Gadarene (and Jackie Oates, Jim Moray, Olivia Chaney, Trembling Bells etc under the banner of A Place Called England. And reminding people of your diatribe against them - a band you've never even seen - à propos of absolutely nothing (unless you're of the turn of mind that associates The Imagined Village with dyslexia, home tuition or bath handles).

Whatever is the point of drawing attention to a series of Oysterband concerts several months ago? (Though I seem to recall that several people did remark on them in this forum AT THE TIME. For the umpteenth time, everyone here knows all about SoH and the Oysters - and has done for decades.

Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: GUEST,Mad Spaniel
Date: 10 Feb 10 - 08:35 AM

Can't anyone stop Lizzie posting she is just embarassing herself and this forum.
I thought this was all about folk and acoustic music not someones battered ego and mental problems.
I know that by posting i am probably perpetuating the thread?

Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Emma B
Date: 10 Feb 10 - 08:28 AM

The href="http://www.talkingelephant.co.uk/homepage/homepage.php">Talking Elephant site
is useful for searching for a wide range of CDs - my favourite video link there at the moment is Chris Leslie and the wonderful (oops I'm about to come over all Lizzieish - big silly grin ) Ric Saunders performing My Love is in America

Although I didn't notice any of the links to the Albion Chronicles previously discussed here mentioned it was nevertheless good to see the Folk Against Fascism logo featured so prominently at the top of their homepage

Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Flashmeister
Date: 10 Feb 10 - 08:21 AM

David - thank you for fixing the links - I am nobbut a neo-luddite when it comes to these things!!

*sigh* Lizzie - I have not been rude - my comment about hiding if you came to my session was followed by a great big smiley indicating the tongue in cheek manner of the statement. You appear to have misread my whole tone and gone into uber victim mentality mode. And as for patronising you you latterly posted this 'I like the idea of people being brought into music, traditions, history, musicians, poetry....Obviously, you guys don't because you want this world to be 'yours'...It ain't.'
I was accused by you of patronising you when I echoed this very sentiment regarding your interest in SoH bringing you to folk and wider artists - it in no way said that the folk world was some closeted, arcane establishment and that i was *glad* you found enjoyment in it - but apparently me welcoming you and your interest was me patronising you!?! so if we welcome you it's patronising and if we disagree we're funny-handshake folkie fascists? logic, anyone?
Again, I am glad you like folk, I don't care if you don't like me or indeed my music but i bear you personally no ill will, indeed if ever you did grace one of my sessions I would welcome you as much as any other person because people getting off their arses and supporting the scene to me is all good be it listener, musician or organiser - if you think 'the people who follow (you) around' are baiting you then just don't bloody well post reams and reams of incomprehensible and frankly quite aggressive replies. rise above it, stay on topic and try not to alienate posters like me who started off thinking you were a wee bit eccentric and now after reading your diatribes and spite directed my way (yes i can read more than 10 words) am of the impression you are an utter loon.

and calling people 'sweetums' is beyond patronising - we are all big girls and boys here and it just fucks people off.

....insert entry in black book of hate - F for Flashmeister (Ms.)

Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 10 Feb 10 - 07:55 AM

...and I am really glad that Lizzie keeps posting links to these bands we have never heard of. She is doing an excelent job of promoting people who would otherwise still be in obscurity. I have just discovered a little known outfit called Take That and think they are fablididlidocious. But as they are not being promoted I suspect they will soon sink into obscurity. When will all you fuddyduddy folky types get some life into your soul and start tapping your feet to this kind of music instead of the fucking shitty crap that you listen to?

:D (eG)

Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 10 Feb 10 - 07:38 AM

I know it was a bit silvery, Dianne. I wanted to make sure that certain parties did not take it seriously though;-)

Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 09 Feb 10 - 09:14 PM

"You know something, Joan, it ain't any of your business."

Then don't publish it on public internet forums.

Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 09 Feb 10 - 09:05 PM

The Lark Rise Band

Ashley Hutchings



And just so's you know...The Talking Elephant site put links in to some of Sam's sites..but they checked with Ashley first, to see if he agreed to them doing that. He did.

So if Sam's sites are good enough for Ashley Hutchings, they're good enough for a helluva lot of other people, I'd imagine. So again, you can all stick that in your Spiteful Pipes...and....

The trashy people in here do English folk music such a huge disservice, because their spite and vitriol poisons the beauty of the music. It has done for way too long.

Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 09 Feb 10 - 08:56 PM

No, Sue..Show of Hands haven't said that....it was Diane, stirring it as ever...

She's a bit miffed 'cos I told her what a poppet she was, a few posts back, so she's out to prove otherwise. ;0)

We should all be in bed!

(er...not together!)

Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 09 Feb 10 - 08:54 PM

You know something, Joan, it ain't any of your business.

Now, if you'd like to write about Show of Hands music, then please, do. If you want to continue the usual obsessive crap, then go write it on your Facebook page.

Oh, and somewhere on Sam's sites there are some wonderful photos of a very young Albion Band. Were they stolen, pinched or filched from the net? Nope, they were SENT to Sam by the owner, who was gobsmacked at the amount of work and dedication he'd put into his sites and he wanted Sam to have his full permission to use those photos.   How do I know? Because I helped Sam put them on there, and I corresponded with the man concerned...

As to where the actual site is, I've no idea, because I could never get Sam to make a proper Index to his sites. He preferred for people to just stumble across them. I wanted them to be far easier to find, but heyho, they're his sites, and he does them the way he wants.

I have nothing but respect for the amount of hours he's put in to those pages, because I know how long they take to make. It is a life's work, and that work won't end until Sam is too old to sit at a computer. The pages will be there long after he has died, and that is what he wanted to do, to leave behind knowledge for people to discover.

Be as spiteful as you so choose. It only makes you look incredibly small in my eyes.

Thank you


And here is another...

Ashley Hutchings ' Sway With Me'

Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Suegorgeous
Date: 09 Feb 10 - 08:47 PM

Michael - nope, it's no use! they're all enjoying themselves too much to stop now! :(

"One of the crosses that SoH has to bear is that section of their fanbase that sits primly in coaches as per a Women's Institute outing and files into the Albert Hall." Has SoH actually said that? I find that a bit insulting. What's wrong with those women (or whoever) being fans, if they love the music (and contribute to SoH's income)?

Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 09 Feb 10 - 08:38 PM

"Nope, sorry to disappoint you, yet again, but I never wrote one word of those sites, or designed them. Sam did it all."

Okaaaay...

"As I said, I never wrote a word on there. There's a helluva lot of other work that goes into making sites you know...."

Right. But you didn't do the design either, according to your first post. So you want to take credit for them when it suits you, and deny all association when it suits you.

Welcome to Lizzieworld.

Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 09 Feb 10 - 08:33 PM

No, I wasn't using that quote..that was the whole point..

Come on, Diane, you've been caught out, 'cos I never wrote any such thing. Of course, it HAS given you an opportunity to plug your mates, The Gloworms though. ;0)

If you were at The Union Chapel, or other gigs, then why, instead of whingeing on at me all the time, don't you and your mates write about what a great concert that was?

Maybe it's jealousy?

Maybe it's shyness?

Maybe it's fear of being ridiculed?

Whatever it is, it's a darn shame, as you'd open up The Oysterband to even more people....and I'm amazed that none of you took the trouble to post those videos, because they're great! There are way too many naff amateur videos of the lads out there on Youtube, taken on mobile phones etc..and the sound quality is diabolical, so to have some really decent videos is wonderful.

Spread the word! :0)

Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 09 Feb 10 - 07:59 PM

I used to think the English were inordinately polite, but some of these Folk Singing arguments have changed my opinion. Apparently there's nothing that sets the saxon blood to boiling like a good whoring-out-the-trad argument. Twice as stimulating as a cricket match, I say.

Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 09 Feb 10 - 07:39 PM

Nice try, Dave. But your obsessiveness only started after you'd been rebuffed.

Blimey, you've kept words that I wrote near on 4 years back. Wow!
(bloody worried smiley)

For those who have never seen Sam's sites....here's a link to just one of them:

The Albion Chronicles

Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 09 Feb 10 - 07:39 PM

One of the crosses that SoH has to bear is that section of their fanbase that sits primly in coaches as per a Women's Institute outing and files into the Albert Hall. But as I never fail to give them credit for, they have had rather more worthy projects and doubtless will do again.

As for the Oysterband, I think most contributors were at the Union Chapel or other gigs of last year's tour, so the posting of a vid (and still less referring to them in such derogatory terms) is really quite unnecessary. Shame you didn't see them (or even have heard of them) when they were Fiddlers' Dram. Now that might have coincided more with your taste.

Banging on about having seen the Smiffs once does not equate at all with hearing the Gloworms' music (especially as it was probably Ian Dedic playing). As for exactly when you dissed their work in much the same fashion as you did that of Ms Flash without a listen, see my post of 0650 relating to my disinclination to trawl through the cesspit of scribblings on any and every subject about which you know sod all.

Those who can, do, and those who don't, complain

The quotation is actually "teach", not "complain". But we all know what you think of the teaching profession, don't we?

Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Emma B
Date: 09 Feb 10 - 07:36 PM

"But Lizzie I remember you were associated with some on-line stuff. You and Sam wrote it up and it was all copyrighted at the bottom of each page Lizzie and Sam(or Sam and Lizzie).

Wasn't there a thread about it - whereby people pointed out you had filched pages wholesale which were already copyright to other people and you had made them copyright to yourself? Are you saying you didn't write it? And it was copyright to other people all the time? "

New readers start here.......

Ah yes I remember The Albion Chronicles

And 'every time you click on a new link, you find loads more..' or was that every hit generates advertising revenue? and wasn't that something like 57 separate pages?.

I also seem to remember Lizzie saying
"I'd think that possibly, WHOEVER RUNS THE SITE, holds Evelyn Glennie in very high regard "
when "GUEST,banned from the BBC" also posted a link to the saccharine "Sam and Lizzie site" ( one reaction to which I seem to remember was "anyone got a bucket?) - such a touching display of ignorance about the owner of the site Lizzie when you were so publicly and romantically linked with him!

I gave a link at the time to a direct copy of a Guardian article about Nick Drake on the site, others pointed out that "All the stuff linked on this disjointed and badly laid out site are available elsewhere in a more intelligible format:" and questioned if .
"permission has been obtained from the owners of the linked websites?" commenting that it all seemed to be "shameless self indulgence and self promotion".

- no change there then!

Some interesting 'historical' reading when guests like 'Pest Of A Guest" "Banned from the BBC" etc were …….often……..

Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Folkiedave
Date: 09 Feb 10 - 07:30 PM

You remember Sam's site, of course, because you leacherously came over to me in PM and told me what a lovely photo of me you thought he'd used...asking if it was in a hotel...I stared at your words, slightly puzzled, told you it was the Railway Museum in York, where I went with my children once, (not with Sam) and rebuffed your advances.

It was a wind-up Lizzie. It was when I realised you were too stupid to notice that I realised what a prat you were.

Back to Sam. This is what you wrote.

My path is with Sam from now on. Our journey is just beginning.

For many of you, your journey, it seems to me, has stopped. It stopped when you let the coldness of hatred, anger and bitterness come into your hearts, it stopped when you sought to destroy rather than to encourage...it stopped...inside so many of you.

I hope you find your way out of it all....to a very different world.

So yes Dave...this time I WILL go. I have no wish to be amongst people such as yourself, Joan Crump, Diane Easby or Ralph Jordan on this site, or any other 'folk' site anymore. I very much hope that you enjoy YOUR music, that you enjoy YOUR club and that you enjoy YOUR world.

And frankly Lizzie you have been posting bits of it ever since.

I am really glad you found Sam. And that you fell in love with each other through folk music. Many others have done the same.

Tell us the end of the tale. Did you ride off into the sunset and live happily ever after? Canada was it? Birmingham?

Regular readers will notice that once again Lizzie permanently left Mudcat for ever.

It was about three years ago.

Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 09 Feb 10 - 07:29 PM

As I said, I never wrote a word on there. There's a helluva lot of other work that goes into making sites you know....

You know, Sam's 'Albion Chronicles' was out there YEARS before I ever found them. I stumbled across them long before I ever came to know Sam, via the internet. That's what he does, lays down thousands of paths for people to wander down, if they choose to. Many of the things he has on his sites (and there are thousands of them) he's given credit to the writers, the photographers.....and at no time, as far as I'm aware, has he ever put his own name to the words of others.

Sam merely gathers together facts and photos into one place...and he doesn't just have sites on Folk Music, but on almost any subject you would care to imagine. They are merely one man's collection of memories, of things that are dear to him, that mean something special.

But again, because he came to be associated with me, so you lot decided to pour the scorn down upon him and the sites he makes, never wishing to see that he's probably brought many people into folk music in his time.

Leave him alone and go pick on your own sort.

Sam always had a saying which was 'Those who can, do..and those who can't, complain'.   It never bothered him what you lot said, because he wasn't interested in anything you came out with. He did and still does what interests him and I've read many a time how people have said they like his sites.

That's fine by me.

I like the idea of people being brought into music, traditions, history, musicians, poetry....Obviously, you guys don't because you want this world to be 'yours'...It ain't. Sam does his bit to help spread the word, nothing more.

You gotta problem with him, then email him via one of his many sites, that's what his email contact is for.

Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: michaelr
Date: 09 Feb 10 - 07:25 PM

Reading this latest Lizzie-and-the-folks-who-love-to-hate-her thread, I've come to the conclusion that you're ALL assholes. Do you really have nothing better to do than to pollute this forum with your bullshit?

Get a life, idiots.

Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 09 Feb 10 - 07:18 PM

Hmmmm...

"The fact that I helped to create a site about Walter [Pardon] was completely overlooked"

But then...

"Nope, sorry to disappoint you, yet again, but I never wrote one word of those sites, or designed them. Sam did it all."


Make up your mind. Either you're admitting you were complicit in his plagiarism or it was nothing to do with you. You can't have it both ways.

Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 09 Feb 10 - 07:09 PM

"Oh, and Colin Cotter is completely right about the type of audience SoH appeal to. Yes, it is sexist and ageist to describe it thus, but it is nevertheless true."


Cripes! You'd better hide from Joanie then, for she's become their biggest fan.   

Meanwhile, back at the folk ranch, I've shed pounds and years because Those Gorgeous Oysters have come riding over the horizon.

The Oysterband live at The Union Chapel - Youtube

Brilliant, eh? That's such a good video. :0)