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Subject: RE: BS: Spill, Baby, Spill... (Palin & oil spills) From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 12 May 10 - 02:26 PM "Senator Barbara Boxer, chairwoman of the Environment and Public Works Committee, said that the agency [MMS] had granted BP an exemption from filing an environmental impact statement for the well that blew up, accepting company assurances that the chances of a major spill were remote. Such waivers are routinely granted when an impact statement has already been filed for a wider drilling area, but some environmentalists contend that a statement should be filed for each well." Senate hearing, NY Times, article: "U. S. to Split Up Agency Policing the Oil Industry," John M. Broder, May 11, 2010. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Spill, Baby, Spill... (Palin & oil spills) From: mousethief Date: 12 May 10 - 01:16 AM This undoubtedly would (or will) occupy attorneys for some years! As if it wouldn't otherwise? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Spill, Baby, Spill... (Palin & oil spills) From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 12 May 10 - 12:00 AM How would cost of clean-up be distributed properly? This undoubtedly would (or will) occupy attorneys for some years! Some blame also attaches to the government regulatory body which approved the well which was drilled at the limits of capability. This was not the garden variety of Gulf well, of which there are many, drilled to reasonable depths in sediments which have been studied for years. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Spill, Baby, Spill... (Palin & oil spills) From: mousethief Date: 11 May 10 - 10:30 PM Also cost of cleanup should be distributed properly. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Spill, Baby, Spill... (Palin & oil spills) From: GUEST,TIA Date: 11 May 10 - 08:50 PM Yes, the blame game does not help the reality of the situation right now. But I am all in on the blame game if it makes others in the future think twice about risking long-term environmental catastrophe in the hopes of short term profit. I *definitely* want blame to be placed. The whole plante loses if we walk away saying "Shazam, who knew? Act of God! Not foreseeable! Let's drill some more because lightning doesn't strike twice." Yeah, right. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Spill, Baby, Spill... (Palin & oil spills) From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 11 May 10 - 05:52 PM The blame game doesn't help. BP, as operator, oversaw and would have approved the work of participants, but all were working together. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Spill, Baby, Spill... (Palin & oil spills) From: Greg F. Date: 11 May 10 - 02:46 PM BP is trying to slough off some of the blame to Haliburton In light of Halliburton's track record they doubtless DESERVE some of the blame. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Spill, Baby, Spill... (Palin & oil spills) From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 11 May 10 - 01:01 PM Dick G- right, not really a plan A either, when disaster strikes on a project that is at the limits of known capability. People don't like to admit that this was the real problem. At Congressional hearings today, BP is trying to slough off some of the blame to Haliburton and Cameron, as well as rig owner Transocean. BP's statement about paying clean-up costs has holes in it; and nothing has been said by them about compensation to businesses which are losing or will go bust. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Spill, Baby, Spill... (Palin & oil spills) From: dick greenhaus Date: 10 May 10 - 10:47 PM Well, two things, at least are perfectly clear: The most modern offshore drilling technology can fail disastrously. The most modern mitigation systems don't work. Now, if one postulates that we can't afford the kind of damage that occurs from an unmitigated failure, the conclusion seems pretty obvious. There is no plan B. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Spill, Baby, Spill... (Palin & oil spills) From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 10 May 10 - 07:16 PM The Gulf Oil Spill Litigation Group is advertising for clients. Call toll free 866-313-1973, and ask for attorney Elizabeth A. Alexander. Tourist areas are already hard hit, with sales in some areas already down 50 percent and more. Florida shrimpers, sportsfishing operators and seafood companies have filed a class action lawsuit against BP, PLC, BP America, Transocean, Haliburton (engaged in cementing the well) and Cameron International (provided the blowout preventers which failed to activate). Alabama groups also have filed a class action suit against the same defendents. NOAA reports more than 10,000 people are active in response to the spill. NOAA issues trajectory maps twice a day, based on satellite imagery and aircraft tracking. A portion of the spill is impinging on Atchafalaya Bay today (Monday). |
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Subject: RE: BS: Spill, Baby, Spill... (Palin & oil spills) From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 09 May 10 - 08:07 PM Many of the oysters are farmed on leased areas nowadays, so some carefully tended shellfish sources could be destroyed. The costs to fishermen and shellfish harvesters could run into many millions as well as putting a lot of people out of work. There are 3500 oyster harvesters in Louisiana. In 2006, Texas oysters generated $17 million in sales. Now they are considering trying to plug the hole with trash. I dunno, the formation has a lot of pressure. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Spill, Baby, Spill... (Palin & oil spills) From: Riginslinger Date: 09 May 10 - 07:36 PM It's really sad what is does for the fishing industry there, and it's on the ropes all over the world, too. Just too many people. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Spill, Baby, Spill... (Palin & oil spills) From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 09 May 10 - 07:00 PM Not for calorie counters- red snapper stuffed with shrimp, a favorite in Texas. How long? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Spill, Baby, Spill... (Palin & oil spills) From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 09 May 10 - 01:27 PM None of the politicians, red, blue or polka dot, understood the problems of drilling at the limits of capability and knowledge- but they are beginning to learn. Let us hope that the similar Chevron prospect off the East coast of Canada will be not be drilled until better methods are developed. It took nine months and two rigs to subdue the Pemex Gulf well blowout (Bay of Campeche). I hope that this BP well can be tamed quickly but I am afraid it may not be. Yeah, Bobert, I buy only North American shrimp (I am afraid of the Asian). I prefer East or West coast oysters, but this spill will play hell with the Gulf oysters and put pressure on other areas. Yep, big price increases seem inevitable. And red snapper- |
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Subject: RE: BS: Spill, Baby, Spill... (Palin & oil spills) From: mousethief Date: 09 May 10 - 01:19 PM When, since November of 1980, have the Republicans given any indication they're interested in the democratic process? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Spill, Baby, Spill... (Palin & oil spills) From: Bobert Date: 09 May 10 - 08:19 AM Not quite what one would call a "blessing", rigs... Kinda a political fig leaf to try to get the Repubs to participate in the democratic process... Hardly a blessing... BTW, who was it that made "Drill, Baby, drill" the centerpiece of her campaign??? Hmmmmmmmm??? B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Spill, Baby, Spill... (Palin & oil spills) From: Riginslinger Date: 09 May 10 - 07:59 AM There's no reason for Sarah Palin to say anything, because Obama had already given his blessing to off-shore drilling. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Spill, Baby, Spill... (Palin & oil spills) From: Bobert Date: 08 May 10 - 10:53 PM ... and still nuthin' from Ms. Sarah??? I mean, lets get real here... There is a good chance that BP will never cap this well and that every bit of oil that is trapped in that cavern will just be part of our new 'n very unimproved planet's water??? This is a real scenerio!!! Shrimp: $200 a pound??? Not that farfetched until, of course, there are no more shrimp anywhere... I donno??? B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Spill, Baby, Spill... (Palin & oil spills) From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 08 May 10 - 05:21 PM Methane Hydrates, a simple explanation and map of known occurrence: Hydrate |
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Subject: RE: BS: Spill, Baby, Spill... (Palin & oil spills) From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 08 May 10 - 05:08 PM Talk about a 'methane bubble' in the media suggests something new, but it is methane and other light hydrocarbons that drive the oil in a high-pressure formation. Some formation pressure is desirable, because the hydrocarbon will rise to the surface without the need for pumps. Too much pressure will cause a 'gusher' that, if strong enough, overwhelms the valves and cutoffs in the drill pipe. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Spill, Baby, Spill... (Palin & oil spills) From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 08 May 10 - 04:59 PM The dome collection device has run into difficulties. Methane Hydrates (methane, water sludge that forms at low temperature and high pressure) have clogged the device. Methane hydrates have been suggested as an energy source but never used, the use is theoretical. Methane hydrates also are found over parts of the Arctic Sea, where Shell is preparing to drill offshore this summer, off Alaska. The difference is that the Shell leases are in much shallower water. The BP well in the Gulf, as I have noted, was drilled at the limits of engineering knowhow, hence in many ways is entering the unknown. It cannot be compared with the many Gulf wells drilled in shallow water, into offshore equivalents of known sedimentary columns. BP and its associates have entered a new realm- I think before the knowhow about safe procedures for exploration have been developed. The drilling rig was not equipped with the latest in blowout preventers, but those have never been tried out under actual conditions; they also may have been inadequate to control high pressure methane gases coming from the oil-bearing formation. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Spill, Baby, Spill... (Palin & oil spills) From: Riginslinger Date: 08 May 10 - 03:50 PM Does the methane theory hold water? Would some other explanation be more damaging to BP? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Spill, Baby, Spill... (Palin & oil spills) From: Amos Date: 08 May 10 - 09:50 AM The deadly blast on board the Deepwater Horizon oil rig in the Gulf of Mexico was triggered by a bubble of methane gas, an investigation by BP has revealed. Spaw is obviously feeling better. He's taken up scuba diving! A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Spill, Baby, Spill... (Palin & oil spills) From: mousethief Date: 06 May 10 - 10:37 PM See, an old bitch can learn new tricks. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Spill, Baby, Spill... (Palin & oil spills) From: GUEST,JTS Date: 06 May 10 - 08:24 PM Relax Donuel, Jon Stewart has her on tape saying "Drill baby drill!" |
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Subject: RE: BS: Spill, Baby, Spill... (Palin & oil spills) From: Bobert Date: 06 May 10 - 08:13 PM Good point, Rigs... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Spill, Baby, Spill... (Palin & oil spills) From: Riginslinger Date: 06 May 10 - 05:00 PM See, some people are smart enough to learn! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Spill, Baby, Spill... (Palin & oil spills) From: Donuel Date: 06 May 10 - 01:38 PM It seems that Palin has been temperate regarding this spill. She has made statements which are not drill baby drillesque at all but rather pursuing caution without over reaction. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Spill, Baby, Spill... (Palin & oil spills) From: Bobert Date: 06 May 10 - 07:23 AM Yes, Rigs, we all agree on that... But saving the planet will have to come down to people willing to listen to "elitists" who bother to get themselves educated up and know what the hell they are talking about as opposed to ignorant people who think that policy should be tailored to their particular emotions or someone else's profits... Until we achieve that major "change" we won't make any strides towrd saving the planet... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Spill, Baby, Spill... (Palin & oil spills) From: Riginslinger Date: 06 May 10 - 07:13 AM Some of us think the planet is worth saving. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Spill, Baby, Spill... (Palin & oil spills) From: mousethief Date: 06 May 10 - 01:10 AM Says the ant just before he is squashed by the elephant he thinks he can lift. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Spill, Baby, Spill... (Palin & oil spills) From: Riginslinger Date: 05 May 10 - 11:55 PM Nobody said is was going to be easy, Bobert. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Spill, Baby, Spill... (Palin & oil spills) From: Bobert Date: 05 May 10 - 10:21 PM Well, well, well, Rigs... The problem with you and Q's arguments are that people who are out there who do nuthin' but study population and demographics say that it will take generations to effect any measurable change and that any changes, if not carefully planned can end yer country in a real pickle... Picture a triangle with its point pointed downward and two sides speading out like like a man hold his arms upward and at 45 degrees... If you have this picture in yer mind and that is the way you population is in terms of age then it means that very few are having to work to support very many... It ain't as easy as saying one family, one child... What you end up with is excatly what I just described with a wrok force having the shouldeer tyhe load for a bunch of old fogies... You know, like most of the folks here... The problem is that there is a breaking point... The US is just about there because our Baby Boomin' parents were like bunnies and the generations afterwards weren't... So that is the real story... Yeah, it's easy to talk about contolling population but very hard to actually pull it off responsibly so that you don't kill off a country or twelve in the process... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Spill, Baby, Spill... (Palin & oil spills) From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 05 May 10 - 09:59 PM I know who would be first on my list.... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Spill, Baby, Spill... (Palin & oil spills) From: Riginslinger Date: 05 May 10 - 09:54 PM 1. You limit tax credits for children to two per couple, any more than that, and they don't get a free ride. That way, if Hispanics want to invade America through the birth canal, they'll at least have to pay for it. 2. You don't kill anybody, if a country can't control their birth rate, everyone who lives there stays in the filth and swaller until that country brings their population growth under control. After all, nobody else wants them. 3. You make hiring an illegal alien a fellony, and if they get caught, they go to Pelican Bay. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Spill, Baby, Spill... (Palin & oil spills) From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 05 May 10 - 09:19 PM Bobert, that one child /family does cut the population down. Two are needed to keep a level keel. Of course this has to go on long enough so that the old folks die off. China boldly tried the one child solution, but something happened. Someone noticed that not enough young'uns were coming along to take care of the old folks in an aging population. They are making adjustments. My solution- each of us make a list of those we don't like, and submit the lists to a tribunal, which will deepsix those on the lists. Pretty soon only the tribunal will be left. Of course I will be boss of the tribunal. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Spill, Baby, Spill... (Palin & oil spills) From: Bobert Date: 05 May 10 - 08:50 PM Okay, Rigs... You are in charge... Who gets killed??? Old people first??? Kids??? Left handed people??? Black people??? Jews??? Lutherins??? Germans??? Indonesians??? I mean, if yer into this planet saving thru population reductions then someone has to make the decision as to who get's killed... Question #2... What kind of palnet are we going to have after Rigsagetton and a couple billion people are hilled to make the planet this hunky doorey place for those that made the cut... Oh wait... Maybe a lottery system... Question #3... How are ya' gonna kill that many folks, Rigs??? Lethal injection??? Nukes??? Well, ya can't use nukes if ya' use a lottery system... No, maybe we just make it countries... But what if the US loses??? Are we gonna nuke oursleves or have someone else do it??? I mean, I really think we should have the balls to do it ourselves... The Ruskies could botch the job and leave half of us to die a slow painfull death... No, I trust the good ol' USA when it comes to nuking folks... Hey, we got a resume'... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Spill, Baby, Spill... (Palin & oil spills) From: Riginslinger Date: 05 May 10 - 06:42 PM I think I'd rather save the planet than worry about the economy. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Spill, Baby, Spill... (Palin & oil spills) From: Bobert Date: 05 May 10 - 02:34 PM Yeah, throw air into that mix, too... But back to immigartion... For those folks who are sceaming for reform that throws alot of people back to Latin America they might want tyo rethink that because of the demographics that will provide a larger pool of younger workers as we Baby Boomers become a pain in the ass to our kids... lol... Lotta intricacies involved here other than the thoughless Tea Party folks most of whom would like almost all the immgrant of the last 20 years to go home... These Tea Partiers don't realize that if that were to happen our economy would literlly implode... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Spill, Baby, Spill... (Palin & oil spills) From: Riginslinger Date: 05 May 10 - 09:08 AM Actually, Bobert, America brought its population growth under control in the early 1970's. Most of the growth since that time has been from immigration. And if something isn't done about it, food, water, and energy will always be a problem--and in the near future, you can add air to the list. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Spill, Baby, Spill... (Palin & oil spills) From: Bobert Date: 05 May 10 - 07:46 AM The problem with population, Rigs, is that people who study population don't see any quick fixes that meet with the overall moral codes of mankind... Even if the US, for instance, were to limit one child per family, al la China, the population would still expand... Then there is also the realities of porportions of age groups where you wouldn't want like 50% of yer population being over 60 years old because that would not leave enough work force to produce for itself and it aging population... So to say that population is the greatest problem may be correct but the one that can only be solved over generations... And then only after one takes on the people who believe that birth control is a sin... Until then, the planet's most immediate problems are food, water amd energy... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Spill, Baby, Spill... (Palin & oil spills) From: katlaughing Date: 05 May 10 - 07:22 AM I love this guy's take on the whole thing: CLick Here |
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Subject: RE: BS: Spill, Baby, Spill... (Palin & oil spills) From: mousethief Date: 05 May 10 - 01:16 AM Number6: $Corporate$ priority and influence over the government has to come to an end. From your lips to God's ears. Now, how do we bring this about? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Spill, Baby, Spill... (Palin & oil spills) From: Donuel Date: 04 May 10 - 08:42 PM The population has fallen far below the projections of the last 10 years. Population is actually becoming less of a threat. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Spill, Baby, Spill... (Palin & oil spills) From: Riginslinger Date: 04 May 10 - 06:12 PM No, the population explosion is by far the greater problem. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Spill, Baby, Spill... (Palin & oil spills) From: GUEST Date: 04 May 10 - 06:10 PM >>What strikes me--don't think I've seen the point yet--is that in the US we have now had two disasters, in rather quick succession. Both caused by pressure from private industry to cut corners on safety in order to maximize profit. I thought you were going to bring up the sub prime crisis and the banking crash. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Spill, Baby, Spill... (Palin & oil spills) From: Bobert Date: 04 May 10 - 05:49 PM Yet we have a certain very vocal and militant group that thinks that childbirth is this glorious thing... Of course, once the kid is born then it's tough luck, Charley... We can and will have to get around to this problem... But it will take genetaions of some very severe family planning to bring dwon the population, or even stabilize it... In the interim we have to deal with the reality and energy, water and food all need some serious rethinking... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Spill, Baby, Spill... (Palin & oil spills) From: GUEST,number 6 Date: 04 May 10 - 12:49 PM "G-d didn't put so many people on this earth--we overbred" Hmmmmmm .... maybe we should sterilize our children, and grandchildren. who wants to be the first to go and do this? I don't think the western world is overpopulated .... we just have a unquenchable thirst for consumption without any regards to the consequences .... oh, and don't forget the greed factor. biLL |
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Subject: RE: BS: Spill, Baby, Spill... (Palin & oil spills) From: Riginslinger Date: 04 May 10 - 11:56 AM You're right, TIA, human population growth is at the heart of any number of our current problems. Probably the best first step would be to prevent people from over populated, fast growing areas from migrating to areas that are not quite yet over populated. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Spill, Baby, Spill... (Palin & oil spills) From: GUEST,TIA Date: 04 May 10 - 10:37 AM SaulGoldie is right on. Follow any of these environmental and human disasters to their source, and you will find human overpopulation. As Bobert points out, there is no easy solution to this. But, don't worry - if we do not find a solution, nature will. As will all species in the history of Earth that have overexploited their niche, we will be rendered extinct (or at least insignificant) by a plague, famine, or some other population-crash-causing event. There is no easy solution, but not choosing a solution is, in fact, choosing a solution. |
