BS: Is it time for a gay president?

Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 01 Jun 10 - 06:29 PM

That's not important. But what IS important is this: Is Mudcat ready to put a chimpanzee in the White House? Vote Chongo in 2012.

Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president?
From: gnu
Date: 01 Jun 10 - 06:35 PM

John P...

Don't be too hardon Her/Him. S/He just needs to come to grips with the real world.

Of course, s/he may actually be an adult but just trolling. Seems to me Rapaire mentioned sommat to that effect.

Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president?
From: GUEST,Blind DRunk in Blind River
Date: 01 Jun 10 - 06:37 PM

T'day's secont questian:

How many boltholes does it take to fill the flippin' Albert Hall?

- Shane

Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president?
From: Amos
Date: 01 Jun 10 - 07:01 PM

One3 , if it is big enough...

Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 01 Jun 10 - 07:30 PM

I'm miffed. Little Hawk expressed the feelings of many of us, that we need a chimpanzee in the White House, and nobody took that idea seriously...

Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president?
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 01 Jun 10 - 07:44 PM

""I'm miffed. Little Hawk expressed the feelings of many of us, that we need a chimpanzee in the White House, and nobody took that idea seriously...""

Possibly because the memory of the most recent ape in the White House is still too fresh.

It's only a year since you got rid of it.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president?
From: John P
Date: 01 Jun 10 - 07:48 PM

I thought we put a chimp named Bonzo in the White House back in 1980.

Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president?
From: DougR
Date: 01 Jun 10 - 08:41 PM

Do you have anyone in particular in mind that could take over immediately?

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 02 Jun 10 - 12:57 AM

Yes!!! Chongo.

Failing that...why not give William Shatner a shot at the job? He's a big man, after all.

Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president?
From: mousethief
Date: 02 Jun 10 - 01:29 AM

Pity Charles Schulz died before he could run for president. Him, I would have voted for.

Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president?
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 02 Jun 10 - 02:52 AM

Pity Charles Schulz died before he could run for president. Him, I would have voted for.


abso fekkin lutely

Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president?
From: akenaton
Date: 02 Jun 10 - 03:10 AM

akenaton   1 DEC 2008

Being black doesn't necessarily make you a good or trustworthy person, you goons see a change of colour equating to a change of political direction......just imagine the liberal euphoria if Mr Obama was "gay" as well as "black".........welcome to X Factor politics folks!!

I still think you can judge a man by the company he keeps and Mr Obama's company....or administration, will ensure no pesky change anytime soon.

Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president?
From: Stringsinger
Date: 02 Jun 10 - 09:52 AM

It's time for a rational president, period. Maybe a woman unless she's a Thatcher type.

I don't think sexual orientation makes a difference in an executive position.

Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president?
From: mousethief
Date: 02 Jun 10 - 11:56 AM

Being black doesn't necessarily make you a good or trustworthy person

Ya think? Golly, none of us ever thought of that. We all think black muggers (for example) are good and trustworthy. Also black drug dealers. Because we're as stupid as ake thinks we are.

Does your ward nurse know you've hacked the floor's computer?

Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president?
From: frogprince
Date: 02 Jun 10 - 12:24 PM

Interesting; folks here, in large part, heeded the second post to the thread, "Don't feed the trolls", and the troll who started the thread hasn't been heard from again. Careful, guys, let's not slip into leaving snacks on the floor for him.

Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 02 Jun 10 - 12:26 PM

He's not as stupid as you appear to think he is either. ;-) If you deliberately set about interpreting another person's point from the stupidest possible angle he could be coming fron, which is probably not the angle he's really coming from...then you'll make the mistake of assuming he's as stupid as you want him to be, in order that you can be "right" and he can be "wrong".

You're assuming that Akenaton just did that to you. And then you're doing it back to him.

The assumption is almost certainly incorrect in both cases.

And if you took a minute to think about that, I'm sure you could figure it out yourself. After all, you're not stupid, right?

His point is quite obvious....if one simply takes a little time to actually think about it, instead of just reacting against it with an immediate kneejerk counterattack.

His point is worth considering. It's not all-embracing, but it is a relevant factor in the situation, as to a motivation some people do have for favoring Obama more than they might favor someone else, given the same set of outward conditions.

Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 02 Jun 10 - 12:27 PM

(that was to Mousethief)

Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 02 Jun 10 - 12:45 PM

Obama's biggest problem, by the way, is simply this: He's the president of the USA.

That's always a big problem for whoever takes on the job. Guaranteed trouble, and lots of it. I think Chongo is nuts for wanting to be the next president of the USA. ;-D I keep telling him to become a bar owner instead. I think he'd enjoy it more.

Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president?
From: mousethief
Date: 02 Jun 10 - 01:15 PM

His point is quite obvious

That people really think Obama can't do wrong because he's black? Please. His obvious point is wrong.

Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president?
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 02 Jun 10 - 01:25 PM

Is Chongo a natural citizen of USA or is he one of them illegal immigrants pouring over the border from Canada? ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 02 Jun 10 - 01:57 PM

Tam - Chongo poured over the border from Africa. ;-) On a banana boat. In the 1920's.

Mousethief - you're not even trying. His point is simply that many people are inclined to give Obama some extra support and some extra slack precisely because he is a Black man (and a very well spoken one), because it makes them feel good to do that....given the fact that they have spent most of their lives allied with and promoting the genuinely very good ideal of achieving racial equality in America. So they are inclined to overcompensate positively for a Black man in office in order to prove to themselves that they are living up to those ideals.

They are reinforcing their old psychological behaviour patterns, and giving themselves a pat on the back for being so "non-racist".

It IS a factor in their thinking, and it does influence them. It prejudices them favorably to support Obama. They give Obama MORE of a break than they would if he was White. They are, in this way, trying to compensate for the USA's past very bad record of slavery and racial discrimination. There are people who would do the same for a woman in office, merely because she was female.

It's counterbalanced, of course, by people who ARE prejudiced against Blacks or against the idea of a female president...those people will attack Obama because he's Black, and they will put down a female candidate because she's female.

In all of the above cases the people involved would be overcompensating and treating Obama (or a female president...or a gay president) quite differently than they would if he was your average regular "White guy" in office. That's what Akenaton was referring to, he was referring to (positive) prejudice based on racial profile as opposed to the much better publicized forms of negative prejudice based on racial profile. It cuts both ways. It's prejudice in both cases, because it's not a rational or unbiased judgement, it's a judgement based on old emotional habits of irrational favoritism or hostility. You're just being plain stubborn and obstinate if you can't see that that is Akenaton's real point.

Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president?
From: John P
Date: 02 Jun 10 - 03:58 PM

Do you really know anyone who likes Obama better because he's black? I know some black folks who are glad there's finally a black president, but it's more of a matter of the US finally getting over some of the historical prejudice. Obama still has to deliver.

I would like to see a woman president, and I would like to see a gay president. This is because I dislike bigotry so much. But first and foremost, I would like to see a smart and capable president. That's the only criteria I go by. The same is true of everybody I've talked to about it.

Saying that people like him better because he's black sounds like the crap the media pours over us all the time.

LH, you have a sad tendency to let your philosophical generalities interrupt your contact with what's really going on with real people.

So -- who have you talked to (other than possibly some outright racists) who pays more attention to Obama's blackness than they do to whether or not he's a good president?

Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president?
From: Don Firth
Date: 02 Jun 10 - 04:13 PM

You have to understand Little Hawk. He sits cross-legged (lotus position, actually) in his monk's robes up there on top of a mountain in the Himalayas. The air gets pretty thin up there and he suffers from anoxia a lot.

The fundamental assumption is that all us Muggles are stupid, incapable of thought, and generally brainwashed, so he has to step in from time to time to set us all straight. It's a mantra that starts out "Tsk tsk tsk. . . ."   And then goes on from there. It allows him to feel a bit smug and superior, but he vociferously denies this, of course. Sort of "humbler than thou."

You know, kind of a holdover from the Sixties. Alan Watts, Lao Tse, Swami Probablyabanana, that sort of thing.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president?
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 02 Jun 10 - 04:15 PM

uh hello! what frogprince said...

You can see by fishMail's posts on other threads that he is a shit stirrer.

So don't be the shit. Don't give this thread any serious thought.

Chongo's got my vote.

Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president?
From: John P
Date: 02 Jun 10 - 04:24 PM

I've actually found this thread fairly interesting, in spite of the stupidity of how it started.

Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president?
From: Smedley
Date: 02 Jun 10 - 05:01 PM

He wouldn't be the first.

Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president?
From: Smedley
Date: 02 Jun 10 - 05:04 PM

Sorry, my post makes no sense!! I was replying to the last post on p.1 because I am an idiot.

Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president?
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 02 Jun 10 - 05:42 PM

Smedley for president?

Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president?
From: gnu
Date: 02 Jun 10 - 05:44 PM

There are two ways to deal with a troll. Starvation is the best. Making fun of it sometimes works. This thread was doing pretty good at at the second option at times.

Of course, if the thread develops into and interesting and informative discussion, all the better. Unfortunately, that is not the norm.

Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president?
From: akenaton
Date: 02 Jun 10 - 06:08 PM

I dont think the members of this forum really appreciate the perceptiveness of Little Hawk, once again he demonstrates his uncanny ability to grasp the meaning in everything we write.
He can also recognise bullshit at long range.:0)

Very many people, not only in America, saw the election of a "black" man as part and parcel of the great social/economic change which was about to be affected. Some see the election of a "black" man, a woman, a homosexual, as an end in itself, though none of them guarantee change of any kind.
That cult of personality is another tactic to avoid change, not encourage it. The real all consuming question, of how we are to survive in a world which is fast leaving us behind, is being covered in steaming piles of trivia.

Mr Obama always spoke in the voice of a traditional US politician, his colour , gender, or sexual preferance would make no difference to what he is ......a tool of the system.....Mr Obama is tinkering with the plumbing(for as long as he is permitted), but the great shithouse keeps on functioning in the same old way.
The same thing is happening in the UK, where we have just thrown out a failed New Labour administration and replaced it with something exactly the same......a conservative/liberal coalition!!(dont laugh, its cruel to mock the afflicted)

This coalition only survives, because both partners...(especially the Liberals),were so mad for power, that they were prepared to jettison any remaining principles they had, for a seat at the cabinet table......and there they sit today, two parties who should be sworn enemies, united in propping up a failed system, a stark warning to us all on the folly of putting our faith in our wonderful liberal/democratic system.

Hawk is right, the agenda of most here is to see "their" side win, be it reverse racism, sexual politics,minority rights.......Real change??.......no takers on Mudcat!

Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president?
From: Don Firth
Date: 02 Jun 10 - 06:18 PM

As a political analyst, Ake, especially when it comes to what various people here on Mudcat are thinking, you'd make a much better plumber.

And as to Little Hawk, when it comes to historical facts, he's pretty good sometimes, but what he's posted here is merely his usual Grand Lama "I'm above it all" theme song.

Been around awhile, seen it before.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president?
From: akenaton
Date: 02 Jun 10 - 07:20 PM

Feed the trolls!!.....Trolls are wonderful, they stimulate debate.
Trolls perform a service and should be appreciated not villified.

Do we really want to put on our slippers and pass away peacefully, or do we want to "rage against the going of the light"

A society for the protection of trolls, with perhaps Troll Pride parades....equal rights for trolls....an outright ban on "trollphobia" etc, would make Mudcat much more "liberal".

Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president?
From: mousethief
Date: 02 Jun 10 - 07:23 PM

I dont think the members of this forum really appreciate the perceptiveness of Little Hawk, once again he demonstrates his uncanny ability to grasp the meaning in everything we write.

Translation: he defended me. He can do no wrong.

Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 02 Jun 10 - 07:25 PM

No, Don...what I am avoiding doing...and most of you here can't seem to avoid doing it in your political debates...is I am avoiding speaking in absolutes and reducing situations to absolutes. I am recognizing that human beings are complex...they're not one dimensional cardboard figures. And situations are complex. Obama is complex. There are things I admire about him, things I disagree with in his policies, criticisms I could make of his decisions, and accolades I could give him for other decisions.

All of that.

When I disagree with people here, it's usually because they're speaking in absolutes. They've decided that someone or something is ALL one way or ALL the other way (good or bad), and it isn't. That's not rational thinking on their part, it's just emotional thinking, usually driven by anger, resentment, partisanship or some other negatively charged emotion.

I don't let that sort of primitive, lazy, emotional kneejerk repetitive and predictable stuff go by. I point it out.

And that's what you really don't like about my comments, not the fact that they are otherworldly or monklike or divorced from the world of normality.

I look at the complexities, I look at both sides, I assess the pros and cons, and I avoid the common stupidity of reducing everything to absolutes and stereotypes.

As Akenaton said below, "the agenda of most here is to see "their" side win". Exactly. That is the real agenda most of you constantly pursue in your political debates and other debates, it's self-serving, it's ego-driven, it has nothing to do with fairness, balance or rationality, and when I see you doing it, I let you know about it. And you don't like it one bit.

Society will not be free of prejudice and inequality until people (no matter what side of the political divide they are on) STOP thinking at all in terms of a person's outer appearance, skin color, gender, religious identity or any other superficial attribute like that.

Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president?
From: akenaton
Date: 02 Jun 10 - 07:44 PM

In referrance to you mousethief, a more apt quote from my post would be, "he can also recognise bullshit at long range".

I suspect LH is not alone in having you "pegged"
You seem a narrow vindictive type, reduced to one line sniping.

"Ye need smeddum tae be richt coorse or richt kind"

You lack "smeddum" mousethief!

Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president?
From: akenaton
Date: 02 Jun 10 - 07:48 PM

reference (thank god for dictionary .com)

Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president?
From: mousethief
Date: 02 Jun 10 - 07:51 PM

Sometimes all it takes is one line to puncture pretension and bullshit.

Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president?
From: mousethief
Date: 02 Jun 10 - 07:56 PM

Did I mention pomposity? Sorry, I should have mentioned pomposity. That would have made for a two-line post which would have made you happier.

Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president?
From: Don Firth
Date: 02 Jun 10 - 08:25 PM

No, Little Hawk, you are assuming that people are talking in absolutes. But not everyone is as simple-minded as you like to think they are.

"I look at the complexities, I look at both sides, I assess the pros and cons, and I avoid the common stupidity of reducing everything to absolutes and stereotypes."

I, too, am put off by absolutes and stereotypes (as many people are), and I do see plenty of it on these threads. Not, however, from everybody. But, you, Little Hawk, are doing exactly that when you accuse all the rest of us of it. Are you so clairvoyant that you can look into the mind of everyone here? I think not!

A touch of hubris on your part, I'd say. Looking down on us mere mortals from your lofty mountaintop.

Mirror, Little Hawk. Mirror.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 02 Jun 10 - 08:26 PM

Amos: "Spaghetti Sauce

1 yellow onion
1 lb ground beef
1 green pepper
1/2 bunch celery
6-10 fresh chives
2 fresh medium-weight tomatoes
1 jar prefab spaghetti sauce"

Instantly better: Just like the song, Parsley Sage Rosemary and Thyme...and Oregano!!!....a lot of it!
Saute at least a pound of mushrooms (big, decent chunks!) in butter, and add all of it into the tomato sauce.
Green peppers are ok, but puree them first(they make gas!)
Brown the ground beef first, then drain the excess grease!
Either a sprinkle 1 to 7 splashes of Worcestershire Sauce, OR a little bit of sugar (1-2 Tablespoons of it), if you want to take the acid bite out of the tomato sauce.
If you want to use garlic, add it toward the end of the simmering!(If you cook garlic toward the beginning, it gets a little bit bitter)
Also, when you get your ground beef, try to get Both regular grind, and chili grind(coarse).
black olives are good in it too!...and if so, use the brine of the can to the sauce, and you don't need to add salt!~!!!!
After its all mixed together, and cooks for a while...TURN IT OFF!! When it cools down, re-heat it, and you won't have to have it cook all day!...TASTES GREAT!!!!!!!!!
More about the meatballs, if interested!

Bon Appetite!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president?
From: Jeri
Date: 02 Jun 10 - 08:45 PM

CHIVES?! This is what's wrong with the world today. Inappropriate seasoning. I'm also not too keen on celery, but it needs basil and more garlic.

Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 02 Jun 10 - 08:51 PM

Inapropriate seasoning is a major problem all right. No doubt about it. ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president?
From: ichMael
Date: 02 Jun 10 - 09:20 PM

Excellent article:

How Monica Lewinsky Saved Social Security

Basically, Bill Clinton (with the help of Newt Gingrich and others) was getting ready to "privatize" Social Security--begin investing SS funds in bullshit Wall Street stocks. Then the Lewinsky business came along and that plan came to a screeching stop.

Now the Social Security issue is back. Obama has just killed Medicaire and is setting his genocidalist's sights on Social Security. Obama's killing 330 million per year worldwide with his "green" ethanol program (it's so GOOD for the planet to kill people), and now he's bringing that goodness to America. He's gonna kill you old timers by taking away your Medicaire and Social Security.

So, perhaps they're about to do a Lewinsky on him with this gay thing. NO ONE would support this guy if this story broke on the mainstream media.

Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president?
From: John P
Date: 02 Jun 10 - 09:38 PM

Little Hawk, Akenaton,
Is there any chance that either of you would stop ascribing motives to people and then making broad, general statements based on your belief in the reality of the motives you ascribe to people?

A start would be to actually answer the question I asked:

So -- who have you talked to (other than possibly some outright racists) who pays more attention to Obama's blackness than they do to whether or not he's a good president?

I am really sick of hearing both of you say that most people are cows being led around by their noses. News flash! Most of us are actually able to think for ourselves and make up our own minds. Please stop being so insulting.

Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president?
From: mousethief
Date: 02 Jun 10 - 09:47 PM

Obama's green ethanol program? They've been putting ethanol in gasoline for decades.

Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 02 Jun 10 - 10:12 PM

John - Ha! ;-D If being grossly misunderstood whenever I try to make a point here was great fun, I'd spend even a lot more time at it than I do. If you get what I mean...

But you probably don't.

Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president?
From: Don Firth
Date: 02 Jun 10 - 10:24 PM

I just got a big packet of stuff from Medicare in this afternoon's mail. Run-down on new benefits.

Looks pretty darned good to me!

Now, if Obama will just keep ruining things like this, it'll be one helluva lot better world all the way around.

Boy, will that piss a lot of people off!!

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president?
From: Don Firth
Date: 02 Jun 10 - 10:35 PM

Mirror, Little Hawk. Mirror!

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president?
From: John P
Date: 03 Jun 10 - 12:01 AM

Little Hawk, I hate to burst your bubble, but I can read what you write with great accuracy. If you think I'm misunderstanding you, you are wrong. If you don't really mean what you write, you should consider taking a writing course, and maybe logic as well.

Trying again, in answer to your assertion that people tend to do things that allow you to categorize them and pretend you are superior to them:

So -- who have you talked to (other than possibly some outright racists) who pays more attention to Obama's blackness than they do to whether or not he's a good president?

What, no answer? Is it possible that your philosophical generalizations don't stand the scrutiny of real life? Try answering what I say instead of pretending to be superior by saying that you are misunderstood. That's really lame.

Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president?
From: ichMael
Date: 03 Jun 10 - 12:02 AM

...In fact, more than half-a-trillion dollars is cut from the main Medicare program alone. The cuts include:

$528.5 billion cut from Medicare.
$206 billion cut from Medicare Advantage.

And then there's $65.7 billion taken from seniors through higher premiums and additional cuts to Medicare beneficiaries and providers, as well as another $13.3 billion to be cut in the future at the determination of a federal board of bureaucrats....

http://amerpundit.com/2010/03/21/reminder-obamacare-guts-medicare-advantage-program/

You can sell ALL kinds of horseshit if you just mail it in a nice big packet. Doctors are going to have to deny you treatment someday, Firth, because you're just not cost-effective. Think of Obama when you're dying.

But anyway, I see now where Obama gets his homosexual proclitivities. He's a Luo. That's his tribe in Kenya. They're considered effiminate by other tribes:

To the Northwest, the Nilotic Luo, meek, cowardly, strong in the use of magic but pushovers in a direct confrontation, sexually rather loose, poor, well-suited for menial, manual labor. To the Kipsigis the Luo are women, or at best children.

"When fighting Luos all you had to do was throw your sword in the air and they would run away."

As expected, the Maasai and Luo were described as polar opposites: Maasai being both aggressive and masculine, Luo as both passive and feminine.

http://www.unc.edu/~rdaniels/papers/1969/Ethnocentrism.html