The Concept of FREED Folkmusic

Subject: RE: The Concept of FREED Folkmusic
From: *#1 PEASANT*
Date: 09 Sep 10 - 03:00 PM

I have nothing against new or modified material however, it is getting far too much attention airplay and space.

I would go for 50% share but because there is so much more old stuff we should give it a 80%.

I know what is on the other side of the ocean- I listen to BBC, know exactly who is playing at the big commercial festivals, know that these festivals are expensive and therefore the audience is limited.

The fact that old treasures are in the past is irrelevant.

One can learn an old piece just as easiy as a new one but we are encouraged by the commercial world to have a bias in their favor.

Therefore despite the revivals most people still do not practice and play folk music and culture.

So if the commercial way was so brilliant why dont people practice it more rather than less.

We have only created a community of audience and not of practitioners.

What people choose to do has nothing to do with the evolution of society but rather for choices presented to them and marketing and education.

ok now what is keeping you from understanding that folk culture is best preserved and kept alive by people who practice it and we need to increase the numbers rather than limit them via the added costs of commercialization and professionalization.

Still makes perfect sense to me but you folks are blowing a lot of smoke to cover the reality up.

Conrad

Subject: RE: The Concept of FREED Folkmusic
From: Howard Jones
Date: 09 Sep 10 - 03:23 PM

Many of the big commercial festivals are sold out in advance. It's not price which is keeping people out, it's capacity.

The reason the wider population isn't playing folk music isn't because people aren't exposed to it - most people have some idea of folk music and what it sounds like. They ignore it because they don't like it - they don't want to make their own entertainment when they can get highly-polished professional entertainment on tap, and they regard those of us who do as a bit odd.

When people like this do get into folk music (as some do) it is more likely to be via the big commercial festivals (such as Cambridge here in the UK), which tend to book guests who I would not necessarily consider "folk" myself. You are not going to get these people's attention by expecting them to stand out in the rain trying to listen to unknown musicians who they can't hear, with nothing to eat or drink, nowhere to buy books or CDs or anything else, and no toilets. Not even if it's free.

Subject: RE: The Concept of FREED Folkmusic
From: catspaw49
Date: 09 Sep 10 - 03:23 PM

It ain't smoke Cornhole......its a fumigant we use after your each and every visit to keep the place from stinkin' to high heavens.


Spaw

Subject: RE: The Concept of FREED Folkmusic
From: *#1 PEASANT*
Date: 09 Sep 10 - 04:45 PM

I know the prices and they are high.

I agree that the musical selections are not at all often folk at all.

no need to have massive stages just break it into smaller and spread them here and there. easy

its not about entertainment its about passing on the tradition and entertainment is something else and the optional part.

Conrad

Subject: RE: The Concept of FREED Folkmusic
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 09 Sep 10 - 04:53 PM

ok now what is keeping you from understanding that folk culture is best preserved and kept alive by people who practice it (Quote)
Errrrm...
Forgive me if I'm wrong, but here in the UK, There are thousands of musicians/singers/dancers/storytellers doing exactly that!
We just prefer to do it in comfortablle surroundings most of the time.
Baltimore must be a real cultural desert.

Subject: RE: The Concept of FREED Folkmusic
From: Don Firth
Date: 09 Sep 10 - 04:57 PM

Another piece of evidence of Conrad's total bewilderment:

"What people choose to do has nothing to do with the evolution of society. . . ."

What people chose to do has EVERYTHING to do with the evolution of society!

SHEESH!!!

####

Spaw, thanks for your kind words at 08 Sep 10 - 11:08 p.m.

Also, congratulations (I think) on hitting 400. But—on this thread, I'm not sure if this is an achievement or an indictment!    :-\

I went over some of the stuff that I posted on this thread, and I find that although I covered a bit of history and made what I consider to be valid points, I really repeated myself a lot. General motivation was that Conrad obviously wasn't getting it, and I was apparently optimistic enough—or naïve enough—to think that if I said the same thing about fourteen different ways, he might eventually grasp it.

But obviously his butt is so tightly epoxied to his hobby horse (rocks back and forth and makes a lot of racket, but goes nowhere) that he can't get off, even if he wanted to, which obviously he doesn't.

Since I've pretty much said what I have to say (several times in several ways) and it hasn't penetrated his armor of stubborn ignorance (or resentment for not being recognized as a genius despite his notable lack of talent), and because I want to prepare something new for our writer's group, which meets this Sunday afternoon, I may make myself a bit scarce on this thread for the next few days.

As to my writing endeavors (if I may crow a bit), for the last several years I have been writing a sort of history / personal reminiscences (calling it a "memoir" seems kinda pompous) of the folk scene, mostly focusing on this area, as I have observed it for the past—lemme see—fifty-eight years. I have over 120,000 words written by way of first draft and I still have a way to go yet, so when I get the first draft completed, it's going to take some serious editing to get it down to readable proportions.

When I finally get it finished and off to a receptive publisher, I will definitely post a "Shameless Self-Promotion" thread.

I'll probably peek in from time to time to see if hell may have frozen over.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: The Concept of FREED Folkmusic
From: Don Firth
Date: 09 Sep 10 - 05:05 PM

Actually, Ralphie, from what I found on the internet, Baltimore has a fairly large and thriving folk scene. Conrad's problem is that he has managed to alienate himself from it by trying to tell them how they should run things, thereby earning himself a boot up the bum, sending him somersaulting down the front steps.

Can't say's I blame them.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: The Concept of FREED Folkmusic
From: Surreysinger
Date: 09 Sep 10 - 05:07 PM

I wasn't intending to be back in here again, but just reread what I posted. In pursuit of accuracy "Search the repertoire of a 19th century singer like Henry Broadwood" ... doh ... he was a collector... I meant Henry Burstow. This will be of no importance to anyone else, but Ifelt accuracy was probably useful.

Gone again

Subject: RE: The Concept of FREED Folkmusic
From: *#1 PEASANT*
Date: 09 Sep 10 - 05:24 PM

There were two broadwood collectors Lucy and I think her father.....

You should not believe that what people want is always the best solution. It is very often the worst solution.

Most of my work has been collecting up and transcribing folk songs and customs. It is not enough to collect. We must find a system that puts these treasures back into the mainstream and commercial paradigms are not doing the job. The goal of comercial paradigms is to make money.

Yes they are not making much so wonders why not make a few changes.

And yes there are exceptions actually some people who just sing in private. They need to be given stages and put the commercial pros in private.

Conrad

Subject: RE: The Concept of FREED Folkmusic
From: Don Firth
Date: 09 Sep 10 - 06:21 PM

"You should not believe that what people want is always the best solution. It is very often the worst solution."

There I agree with you, Conrad. But obviously you can't see how strongly this applies to you!

Don Firth

Subject: RE: The Concept of FREED Folkmusic
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 09 Sep 10 - 06:44 PM

"Including Jim Moray's rap version of Lucy Wan"

And then there's
Waltjim Bat Matilda

No really, go listen, she's brilliant - a talented Aussie singer from the Northern Territory, obviously having fun with a bunch of her muso friends 'having a go' at what many Aussies consider their Unofficial National (Folk?) Anthem.

Subject: RE: The Concept of FREED Folkmusic
From: *#1 PEASANT*
Date: 09 Sep 10 - 08:01 PM

We need to do what is right for both ends of the tradition not just contemporary development.

Subject: RE: The Concept of FREED Folkmusic
From: Howard Jones
Date: 09 Sep 10 - 08:12 PM

You have a totally inverted idea of the folk scene. You see it as dominated by a few professional musicians and large commercial festivals, whereas in fact they are the tip of the iceberg. The overwhelming majority of people are playing folk in their homes and in their communities, for little or no monetary reward, for the love of the music. It's there right in front of you, but you won't see it.

Subject: RE: The Concept of FREED Folkmusic
From: *#1 PEASANT*
Date: 09 Sep 10 - 09:05 PM

Thats because it is in the secret culture. That needs to be opened up.

The music scene needs to be dominated by the small people who are now invisible in a closed world and no there still aren't any way as many of them as there could be.

For most people the only link to folk music if any is via entertainment.


Conrad

Subject: RE: The Concept of FREED Folkmusic
From: catspaw49
Date: 09 Sep 10 - 09:20 PM

Wow......Now we all need to get together on the secret handshakes and secret decoder rings!!!!    But as I get to thinking about it, I don't wanna' belong to any secret group that has Conrad as a member.....Body Odor and stupidity would undoubtedly be involved...................not to mention shitting in hedges or possibly your pants.............................


Spaw

Subject: RE: The Concept of FREED Folkmusic
From: Don Firth
Date: 09 Sep 10 - 09:38 PM

Exactly so, Howard, and that's what I've been trying to tell Conrad all along! The "hoots"—the parties where we all get together in each other's homes and spend an evening sing for our own and each other's enjoyment? They've been going on for years!

And it is NOT a "secret culture." Yes, most of them are in private homes and they are by invitation, but anyone who shows any kind of interest, whether they sing or not, invariably gets invited.

We did find out, way back in the early 1950s, that we had to keep them invitation only, otherwise everybody and his cousin's pet chicken who wanted to go to a party on a Friday or Saturday night, BUT who wasn't the least bit interested in folk music, would come to these song fests for the free beer and snacks, and generally disrupt the singing. And there was the occasional person who, for example, didn't have the courtesy to shut up while someone was singing, who would no longer be invited.

Or anybody who made himself or herself just bloody obnoxious.

And therein lies Conrad's problem. He confessed up-thread that he lost all his folk music friends because he kept telling them they were doing it all wrong and trying to shove his ideas down their throats.

No bloody wonder they stopped inviting him!

But a "secret culture?" No way!

Conrad is his own worst problem.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: The Concept of FREED Folkmusic
From: Smokey.
Date: 09 Sep 10 - 10:44 PM

One would probably be obliged to have one's swimming pool disinfected afterwards.

Subject: RE: The Concept of FREED Folkmusic
From: Ralphie
Date: 10 Sep 10 - 12:47 AM

Thanks Don for the clarifiction re Baltimore. I suspected as much. Will if Conrad has been foisting his bizzare agenda on that particular scene, no wonder he's been ostracised!
Maybe we should do the same here, however tempted we may be.
It's a tough one, but, if we do the same here, maybe he will go away.
Please do not reply to this post, anybody!!!
See some of you on a sensible thread sometime.
Toodle-pip as we say in the UK

Subject: RE: The Concept of FREED Folkmusic
From: *#1 PEASANT*
Date: 10 Sep 10 - 08:07 AM

Thats the problem with house concerts hoots and whatever- CLOSED SOCIETY
sterile, and elitist.

Professional musicians like it that way and keep it that way and that is exactly why access is so terrible. They ration it so that they perceive their fame greater.

For my events now going over 30 years the gate is open people wander in and never ever ever an incident or even close.

You are not a folk community you are like the DAR or other fraternal organizations which for that reason are dying out.

Exactly my point.

Note- I may preach here and on line but I never preach at events or gatherings and I never tell people what to do it is all my opinion. I was just another victim of the closed society.

I have been working with folklore and living communities for 30 years. I know how they operate. One reality for the community another for the outside. On the outside they ration the music and rip people off and often even change from folk to popular on the inside it is cultural. This needs to be reversed.

I used to bring hundreds each year in small groups to fill up small venues with students of Irish culture and folk music. These venues would have been poorly attended otherwise. The venues and the musicians did very well yet the musicians elitists that they are did not care. I have never had a musician buy me a bier. Only rarely did a bar owner buy me a bier. This involved every musician in Baltimore over a long period. Not only did I find them audience but in the Music classes I promoted their music. I know what I am talking about in regard to the folk community.

The task is to transform the public side into the cultural side. This requires less of the professional and smaller stage and more accessibility.

Yes its the sterile members only world that is holding folk music back. I see this at folk festivals all the time. Where are the professional musicians that have been supported by all those volunteers- with few exceptions behind the snow fence with each other or in several instances back at the hotel pool or on the road to the next gig. Yes there are exceptions but having been there this is the rule.

In the same way are they unselfishly promoting old treasures of folk music from the archive NO they are taking the folk music dollar to play their own creations. And yes I look at set lists and I know whats going on. And in the UK too. Most UK folk programming is way heavy on singer songwriter material. Nothing wrong with it but it should not dominate any more than any other form.

Free the music from elitism and self promotion and it will grow.

Conrad

Subject: RE: The Concept of FREED Folkmusic
From: Tootler
Date: 10 Sep 10 - 07:19 PM

Every time someone points out that there are regular events where people are free to go and participate in folk music, Conrad somehow contrives to twist it to suit his agenda.

All this nonsense about closed societies simply does not come anywhere near describing the folk scene where I live. It is quite the opposite, in fact. There are singarounds, open mikes and sessions which are all open to anyone who is interested. Just go in and, after observing the usual courtesies, join in. There is even a publication which is widely circulated round the region to tell what is on where.

How is this closed and sterile? Please explain.

Subject: RE: The Concept of FREED Folkmusic
From: *#1 PEASANT*
Date: 10 Sep 10 - 09:35 PM

You live in a better place.

Yes I listen to UK folk stations and you still have more than we but there is a constant discussion also on uk channels concerning the demise of local folk clubs which are hit hard by commercial folk and the big festivals.

Yes there are different worlds and the one I live in I know best but I also am in touch with others and see the problems there.

Conrad

Subject: RE: The Concept of FREED Folkmusic
From: *#1 PEASANT*
Date: 10 Sep 10 - 09:37 PM

Also look at the play lists for BBC folk program-

there are exceptions but for the most part the songs played are by commrcial folkies with cds out and perhaps marketing companies and they usually are advertizing paid performances here or there.

Not ordinary people.

Should be ordinary people more than the pros.

Conrad

Subject: RE: The Concept of FREED Folkmusic
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 10 Sep 10 - 10:27 PM

I can see why Conrad may be misled into believing his claims of 'closed society' - but you have to get off your backside, be nice and polite and sociable and look around you.

If you are into collecting old cars, radios, or barbie dolls, etc, you will eventually find the relevant groups of people that are interested. Of course, if you offend them from the start, these people may 'forget' to pass on other useful info about how to contact other groups .....

Subject: RE: The Concept of FREED Folkmusic
From: Ralphie
Date: 11 Sep 10 - 12:14 AM

Interested (well not really) to hear Conrads views as to what else a music radio station can play, other than cds?
Which, incidentally is far from free. Needletime, PRS, MCPS, Royalties etc.
And before you say live musicians, I know for a fact having worked (recognise that word?) at the BBC for over 30 years in Music Radio, It is very far from free.
It's hellishly expensive,
Even 1 guy and a guitar, takes time to set up. And the performer would have to be very good indeed to actually keep any kind of audience.
So Conrad, you don't know much about the workings of the real world, and you know even less about the BBC.
In fact the BBC do far more than any other broadcaster in the UK, It's just that it's spread throughout other programmes.
And it has done some spectacular documentaries Radio Ballads for instance (Both the original and the sequel a couple of years ago)
Using the voices and memories of miners, dock workers, etc. With a sound track of both Traditional and contemporary songs.
Chris Wood did an excellent documentary (again illustrated with music and poetry) on the mummers play, as performed in the early 20th century in the UK, mainly narrated by an octegenarian.
My point being is that these programmes took hours to record, edit, mix. to the highest of standards, and wonderful though they are, the listening audience was tiny.
So Conrad, I'd love to see exactly what programme idea you would pitch at the heads of BBC Radio 2 that would get upwards of 500,000 listeners every week.
Please include who the production company is, how it is going to be funded, etc.
Do you think we haven't tried?
As I say occasionally something great sneaks onto the air.
But in the real world....
So, basically, your pissing in the wind.
But, careful you point the right way.

Subject: RE: The Concept of FREED Folkmusic
From: Don Firth
Date: 11 Sep 10 - 12:44 AM

List of open mikes in the Puget Sound area from the current issue of Victory Review Magazine. There is a nominal charge at some places, but the vast majority of them are free. Note how many one has to chose from on any given evening.

CLICKY

One can get an annual subscription to Victory Review, but there is a small charge to cover postage. However, many music stores in the area keep a stack of copies of the current issue, which customers or visiters to the store can pick up free of charge.

I have written a number of articles for this magazine, as have many others, both amateur (those who do it solely for the love of it) AND professional singers in the area. No pay. The magazine is free, and its aim is to promote folk music and keep people posted as to the time and location of various folk events. Some are paid events, but as I said, most of them are admission free.

I would say that folk music is alive and well around here (Seattle, Tacoma, Everett, and environs).

Note to Conrad:   SOMEone with an interest in folk music and with a certain degree of intelligence and enterprise started Victory Music here some time back. If you are REALLY interested, why don't you do something similar in YOUR area?

Don Firth

Subject: RE: The Concept of FREED Folkmusic
From: Don Firth
Date: 11 Sep 10 - 12:56 AM

By the way, Conrad, all things considered, it's curious that no musician has ever bought you a bier.

A bier is something they lay you on when you are dead.

A beer (note--it's spelled with two "E"s, not an "I" and an "E") is something one drinks.

By the way:
You say you have a college degree in Anthropology. Tell me, how did you manage to get through college without being able to spell and without ever using punctuation?

Just wondering.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: The Concept of FREED Folkmusic
From: Ralphie
Date: 11 Sep 10 - 03:31 AM

Don
Here in the UK. WAV has got a degree in anthropology too, apparently!
Curiouser and curiouser!

Subject: RE: The Concept of FREED Folkmusic
From: Ralphie
Date: 11 Sep 10 - 04:10 AM

"but there is a constant discussion also on uk channels concerning the demise of local folk clubs which are hit hard by commercial folk and the big festivals."

Wrong again. You really don't get it do you.
Yes, there is a falling off of the kind of Folk clubs that you seem to view with such a rosy glow.
1 People are getting older, married, chidren, responsibilities.
2 Venues are closing at an alarming rate, due to the economic situation. Pubs that are trying to keep going are using other means to break even. Food, Sports TV, etc. And who can blame them. Licenscing law changes etc.

But, on the other hand, the new generation of singers and musicians have taken up the baton, but in their own way.
Just as it should be actually. And there are some fine exponents of Trad music and song, and people trying to disseminate it via modern means (Viz. Jon Bodens Folk song a day project on his website. The challenge being that he records and uploads one song a day for a year. Mainly Trad, Mainly unaccompanied, and completely FREE!)

He didn't need to do it, being Lead singer with the monster concert band (Bellowhead) Who are all professional musicians, So you would hate them obviously, they sell CDs and play Large Arenas.

But, he wanted to create a resource of songs for people to dip into FOR FREE!

He also runs a monthly singers club In Dungworth Yorkshire in the Royal Oak, Home of the Sheffield Carols.
guess what? FOR FREE!

So, Conrad, tell me again, what exactly do you do?

Subject: RE: The Concept of FREED Folkmusic
From: Surreysinger
Date: 11 Sep 10 - 06:06 AM

>>He also runs a monthly singers club In Dungworth Yorkshire in the Royal Oak, Home of the Sheffield Carols.
>>guess what? FOR FREE!

I hate to burst your bubble there Ralphie, but it isn't actually a singers club, as it has a booked artist each month(although there are indeed singing and participating opportunities for those that attend), and nor is it free (unless you wish to stand). If you want to sit on a seat you have to book and pay.

The Folk Song a day project though, with downloadable songs, is a completely free and laudable project, and it can be accessed at this web address

Subject: RE: The Concept of FREED Folkmusic
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 11 Sep 10 - 10:43 AM

Thanks Irene. My mistake as Jon books guests.
(This will provoke yet another ridiculous tirade from Conrad obviously!)
But the basis of my arguement is still true....And the Sheffield carols are traditional and free!! Same pub!

Subject: RE: The Concept of FREED Folkmusic
From: Surreysinger
Date: 11 Sep 10 - 11:41 AM

>>But the basis of my arguement is still true....And the Sheffield carols are traditional and free!! Same pub!

Absolutely old bean!! (I was only commenting on a point of accuracy ..LOL)

And not just that pub, but many others in the area as well ... not to mention the carol singing in the West Country as well.

Coming back to that pub, there is also ,of course, Royal Concertinas at Dungworth, where,I think, attendance to take part in the concertina sessions is normally free, and I think there is also a singers night one night in the month as well (which appears to be free) ... so free events do occur at that pub ... so nearly right !! :-)

Subject: RE: The Concept of FREED Folkmusic
From: Tootler
Date: 11 Sep 10 - 02:00 PM

The folk output by the BBC, such as it is, is not typical of the folk music scene in the UK as a whole. It tends to concentrate on the commercial end of folk music and features professional folk musicians. This is not surprising given that the BBC is itself a professional organisation and feels that it must maintain a minimum standard and to do this, must feature professional musicians and professionally produced recordings. Whether the BBC is right in this is a matter for debate, but certainly its output is not typical. So to cite the BBC in support of your argument, Conrad, is not valid.

As to folk clubs falling off because of commercial folk and big festivals. This is simply not true.

In fact an argument can be made that it is the other way round. Most folk clubs book paid guests at intervals so, in fact, they are supporting commercial folk and enabling many performers to earn something from their music, if not always enough to pay the bills.

As to festivals, while many folk club regulars may be away during the festival season in the summer, they come back again in the autumn. Also many festivals, being in small towns, will attract visitors in who having enjoyed the singarounds or sessions are motivated to find a club in their home area, thus the festival can help the clubs.

Overall there is a symbiotic relationship between amateur and professional, between folk clubs and festivals and between the clubs and commercial folk and it is not at all as you claim.

Subject: RE: The Concept of FREED Folkmusic
From: Tootler
Date: 11 Sep 10 - 02:12 PM

Anyway, judging the health of the UK folk scene from a distance of 3000 miles based on content from the BBC (presumably, their website) is not exactly going to give a realistic picture, is it?

Subject: RE: The Concept of FREED Folkmusic
From: catspaw49
Date: 11 Sep 10 - 02:44 PM

What would lead anyone to believe that Conrad has a realistic picture of anything, anywhere, at anytime?   I blame it on the B.O. fumes which have given him additional brain damage. He now is striving to have the intelligence of a rutabaga........but the rutabaga smells better.


Spaw

Subject: RE: The Concept of FREED Folkmusic
From: Don Firth
Date: 11 Sep 10 - 03:08 PM

Ralphie, your mention of Jon Boden's "Folk Song a Day" reminded me of Roger McGuinn's "Folk Den." I think McGuinn adds a song a month to the web site, but he's been at it for a few years now, so he's built up quite a list.

Roger McGuinn was lead singer and lead guitarist with The Birds (hit records with Pete Seeger's "Turn, Turn, Turn" and Dylan's "Tambourine Man") and has been inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame.

You can't get much more "professional" than that.

But McGuinn spent some time at the Old Town School of Folk Music in Chicago (founded by Win Stracke and Frank Hamilton [Stringsinger here on Mudcat]) and has a genuine interest in traditional folk music. So to provide a resource for singers, he started his "Folk Den" web site, complete with his recording of the song of the month, along with the words typed out, and a bit of background information on the song.

He has also done a very good DVD on how to turn out commercial quality recordings for CDs or mp3s, using a few pieces of equipment such as a good microphone or two, a computer interface of some kind, a bit of software, and a laptop computer. I've studied the DVD, have acquired some of the equipment, and am preparing to start recording the songs I know (a few hundred).

On the DVD, McGuinn gets into such things as multi-tracking and overdubbing, which strikes me as a bit of "overproduction" on a lot of folk songs, but it's not bad to know how to do it, even though you may not want to do it yourself.    Check it out.

And I'm seriously considering getting myself a web site and putting songs on it the same way Jon Boden and Roger McGuinn are.

So I would say that when you look at what's REALLY going on, the idea that "greedy professional folk singers" are trying to limit folk music and make it scarce in order to increase their massive profits is the goofy idea of some bewildered doofus who doesn't get out much.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: The Concept of FREED Folkmusic
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 11 Sep 10 - 05:53 PM

Thanks for the links Don, I'll check them out.
Having just done my first solo CD in my attic (plus various overdubs!) It is really quite easy...Good luck!
Make sure you get really decent mics...You know what they say. "Shit In Shit Out"
Cheers
Ralphie.
PS Conrad seems to have gone a bit quiet?

Subject: RE: The Concept of FREED Folkmusic
From: Leadfingers
Date: 11 Sep 10 - 06:38 PM

I was able to get to one of the Singers sessions in Baltimore five years ago , so my peronal involvement is a little dated ! However , I understand from a good friend that The Royal Mile , and the Warf Rat are STILL having good evenings of singing in the Baltimore area , but maybe Conrad hasnt found them yet .
In UK I looked in the Wail at Verwood last weekend -OOPS ! NOT a free weekend - the Landowner is a Mercenary bastard who wants a return for letting a couple of hundred people use his field , and the Evil Merchants who hire marquees want nasty money too = BUT there are NO paid performers though there ARE people who attend who actually try and sell CDs of TRADITIONAL music and song they have recorded . MORE evil Mercenary People .
And Knockholt , this very weekend - Again , the Landowner wants nasty money to let the Folk Mob camp on his land and sing songs to each other !
Just goes to show , its ALL Money Grabbing - EXCEPT for all the FREE singers sessions and music sesions that we support !
I'd like to hear that Conrad has actually organised a FREE event that has been successful , but i think I will have to wait a LONG Time .

Subject: RE: The Concept of FREED Folkmusic
From: Tootler
Date: 11 Sep 10 - 08:13 PM

Thanks for providing the link to Roger McGuinn's folk den, Don. I came across it some years ago when it was relatively new, but had forgotten about it.

It is certainly an excellent resource and provides a good source of American Folk songs. I like the sense of space that you get from some of them. Very different from our own songs and something I did not really appreciate until I visited America six years ago.

Subject: RE: The Concept of FREED Folkmusic
From: *#1 PEASANT*
Date: 11 Sep 10 - 09:35 PM

The warf rat is one of the most expensive places in baltimore no thanks

BBC regional program all available live and play it again is a good local view of the folk scene. I listen to the gig guides each week on several stations and am impressed by the number of the, the quality of the music and the low costs.

Food costs are extremely reasonable.

One does not find that in the USA

Folk venues are for the elite, wealthy and these days those who can obtain fancy costuming. If you have loads of money you can stay for more than one round if not forget a good evening at any of them.

Yes there are always a few exceptions that can be cited but the key word is few.

The bbc could have any one on at all. They have the resources and many times I do hear people who are starting out but then they are generally in the commercial realm. Hardly ever do I hear anyone who is not in the biz but it does happen for mtime to time.

Yes the mummers thing was extremely well done. Yes you can do upscale but why cant we see more balance?

Conrad

Subject: RE: The Concept of FREED Folkmusic
From: Don Firth
Date: 11 Sep 10 - 11:20 PM

"One does not find that in the USA. . . ."

Yes, one does, Conrad! Lots of places.

But you're too cheap to buy your own beer! Too damned bad about you!

Don Firth

Subject: RE: The Concept of FREED Folkmusic
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 11 Sep 10 - 11:58 PM

Hey Conrad, Head on ..Go to a park, or beach or anywhere, whip out your ax and start playing....if a crowd gathers, great, if not, maybe because it's not as good as an idea you thought it would be. If you want to do it, do it. What do you need?..to impress us. Talk to Ebbie, she puts on, or has something to do with that stuff. I used to, years ago, had a crowd of 17,000 people in Westchester Park, in L.A. Until you get it together, have another 'hit' and dream on.
If you find people don't want to pay for it, maybe that's your clue..
By the way,...never mind....

GfS

Subject: RE: The Concept of FREED Folkmusic
From: Ralphie
Date: 12 Sep 10 - 02:08 AM

Conrad.
I feel so humble that our local radio stations meet with your approval.
Yes, Genevieve Tudar, Lester Simpson and Mick Peat do a fantastic job, and it's great that you are able to listen on line.
Their budget? Nothing. Their wages? Nothing.
But, They do it to spread the music not only in the UK, but worldwide via the Web.
As for the BBC having loadsamoney...Don't make me laugh.
The BBC is funded by the licence fee (A tax by any other name)
As long as you don't own a TV you get all Radio for free. (Mind you, watching TV on your computer is a bit of a difficult one at the moment!)
Anyway, I'm pleased that you have finally realised that Traditional music/Dance/Song is thriving in the UK (Because it is)
If you want the story from the horses mouth. Just ask Max. He has just spent a few weeks over here going to Festivals, Folk clubs, Singarounds etc, and by all accounts had a wonderful time.
I think that in future you should leave the UK out of your groundless condemnations.
We are doing just fine. I have never known a time when Traditional music was being embraced with such a passion as now. Particularly by the youngsters.
You seem to have a problem with the US scene?
I don't know why, (though by reading some of the posts here, I think I can guess.)
If you want something done. Go and do it. You live in a (mainly!) free country.
Go, organise a few gigs. Let us know how you get on, How many people attended, what did it cost you...I really would be interested to know.
But, keep us Brits out of it. We are very happy with our current situation thank you.

Subject: RE: The Concept of FREED Folkmusic
From: Tim Leaning
Date: 12 Sep 10 - 06:51 AM

"But, keep us Brits out of it. We are very happy with our current situation thank you"

I don't know about that Ralphie. Have you taken a poll on it ?
Reading through the mudcat threads might appear to tell a different story.


"Go, organise a few gigs. Let us know how you get on, How many people attended, what did it cost you...I really would be interested to know."
Me too..

Subject: RE: The Concept of FREED Folkmusic
From: Surreysinger
Date: 12 Sep 10 - 08:45 AM

>>Folk venues are for the elite, wealthy and these days those who can obtain fancy costuming.

Blimey - what sort of folk scene do you have over there ... fancy costuming?? Sounds more like historical re-enactment than folk clubs or venues. Nothing like our own dear folk scene over here in the UK (or at least not any part of the folk scene I'm familiar with ... can't speak for everybody of course)

Subject: RE: The Concept of FREED Folkmusic
From: Howard Jones
Date: 12 Sep 10 - 09:20 AM

Folk venues are for the elite, wealthy

What an image this conjures up! Security on the door to keep out the paparazzi while inside the Crystal champagne flows in the VIP area (anyone gaining entrance to this area immediately gets offered a floor spot), and scantily-clad girls wait for their chance to bed a folk-singer and sell their story to the tabloids...

Subject: RE: The Concept of FREED Folkmusic
From: Will Fly
Date: 12 Sep 10 - 10:30 AM

scantily-clad girls wait for their chance to bed a folk-singer and sell their story to the tabloids...

Excellent! If any scantily-clad lovelies would care to PM me, I'll let them know the address for my local session this evening. All the usual VIPs will be there - the current Guest Beer is Sharps' Doombar.

Subject: RE: The Concept of FREED Folkmusic
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 12 Sep 10 - 10:56 AM

With due respect Will.
I don't think the News of the World would pay THAT much money for a story from a "scantily-clad" girls liaison with you, old chap!
Ralphie
(Lying by my hotel pool, counting my enourmous earnings from last nights gig and sipping Krug!)

Subject: RE: The Concept of FREED Folkmusic
From: Surreysinger
Date: 12 Sep 10 - 10:58 AM

Never mind the scantily-clad girls ... obviously Howard and Will you inhabit a male dominated folk scene ... what about the hunky males?

Subject: RE: The Concept of FREED Folkmusic
From: Surreysinger
Date: 12 Sep 10 - 11:00 AM

Oh go on Ralphie - it's Newcastle Brown really isn't it?

Subject: RE: The Concept of FREED Folkmusic
From: Will Fly
Date: 12 Sep 10 - 11:03 AM

what about the hunky males?

Well,if I get really desperate - any port in a storm.