Auld Lang Syne - how to pronounce

Subject: Auld Lang Syne
From: BobKnight
Date: 23 Dec 10 - 09:39 AM

A new thread on the Celtic Footstompin Forum is making an appeal for those singing "Auld Lang Syne" this year to pronounce "Syne" properly. It is not pronounced "Zyne" but "Syne," with an S. Sadly, even some Scots are now sayin "Zyne," when they should know better.

Subject: RE: Auld Lang Syne
From: GUEST,glueman
Date: 23 Dec 10 - 09:57 AM

Coming off the 'ang sound, S and Z are virtually impossible to differentiate. Especially at midnight after a skin full.

Subject: RE: Auld Lang Syne
From: BobKnight
Date: 23 Dec 10 - 10:16 AM

Nah! It's dead easy. :)

Subject: RE: Auld Lang Syne
From: GUEST,Suibhne Astray
Date: 23 Dec 10 - 11:12 AM

Properly? They'll be telling us we're not singing it to the proper tune next!

Sedayne (Sean Breadin / S O'P) : Auld Lang Syne - 31st December 2008

Subject: RE: Auld Lang Syne
From: Marje
Date: 23 Dec 10 - 11:17 AM

Maybe if your accent is one that pronounces the "g" in "lang" (e.g some Lancashire accents), it would make it trickier to move into the S sound.

Otherwise it's quite straightforward. Like in "I rang Simon". What's the problem?

Marje

Subject: RE: Auld Lang Syne
From: GUEST,Suibhne Astray
Date: 23 Dec 10 - 11:39 AM

What's the problem?

The only problem I have is with witless Folk pedantry in the face of very common usage when billions of us the world over have been singing it that way all our lives. I've sang it with Americans, Canadians, Germans, Japanese, Norwegians, English and even Scots - all of them singing as Zyne. So - what is the problem?

Subject: RE: Auld Lang Syne
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 23 Dec 10 - 11:56 AM

What rankles with me is when people sing "For the sake of Auld Lang Syne". I don't think 'sake' appears in the original words. Syne is a corruption of 'since' in Lowland Scots, so I agree that the 's' should be devoiced. I must have sung Auld Lang Syne dozens of times during my many years in Edinburgh and Glasgow, and also in Fife. By midnight everyone is at least mildly sozzled, so maybe we weren't pronouncing it all correctly! Do you remember the Queen gingerly holding Tony Blair's hand (but refusing to cross arms with him!) at the Millennium? She looked about as happy as a starched fart!

Subject: RE: Auld Lang Syne
From: Jim McLean
Date: 23 Dec 10 - 12:00 PM

Syne equals 'since' ... who says Zince?

Subject: RE: Auld Lang Syne
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 23 Dec 10 - 12:08 PM

Maybe Somerset folk, Jim McLean? They do say zider I believe!

Subject: RE: Auld Lang Syne
From: GUEST,Allan Con
Date: 23 Dec 10 - 12:30 PM

"Americans, Canadians, Germans, Japanese, Norwegians, English and even Scots - all of them singing as Zyne. So - what is the problem?"

I've lived in Scotland all my life and it is virtually always pronounced 'syne' here which is of course the proper pronounciation. So I don't think it is folk pedantry as much as linguistic pedantry. I think it does amuse Scots or mildy irk some that the song is sung the world over and virtually everyone gets it wrong. What on earth do people think 'zyne' is?

Subject: RE: Auld Lang Syne
From: Dave MacKenzie
Date: 23 Dec 10 - 01:19 PM

The problem the Queen had is she's used too it being sung properly, and it's rather difficult to respond to "Gies a haun" if you're already holding hands.

Subject: RE: Auld Lang Syne
From: Jim McLean
Date: 23 Dec 10 - 01:37 PM

Eliza is correct, but do the rest of the world say Zider? But of course it's great that people sing the song which conveys international brother/sisterhood irrespective of pronunciation. I have been at many a Hogmanay party where everybody is totally incoherant and knocking the shit out of each other in the name of brotherly love.

Subject: RE: Auld Lang Syne
From: An Buachaill Caol Dubh
Date: 23 Dec 10 - 01:58 PM

Further to Eliza's point about "sake", it's very common to hear "And days of Auld Lang Syne", which again I don't think is to be found in any version Burns would have seen. As far as I recall, the holograph copy in the Glenriddel MSS reads, "And Days of Lang Syne" at the end of the first verse, and "For Auld Lang Syne" at the end of each refrain. Maybe, given the likelihood that drink has been taken when this song is sung, it shouldn't be too widely stated that Burns also wrote, with reference to the line about taking a cup of kindness, "some sing, 'kiss'". Mind you, never mind Tony Blair, I'd like to look and laugh at the auld Queen getting herself claught by the rump by some Australian Prime Minister....

Subject: RE: Auld Lang Syne
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 23 Dec 10 - 02:22 PM

The problem with Auld Lang Syne isn't how it should be pronounced but, rather, having to sing the song in the first place. Being forced out of a nice warm house to stand round in a circle in the middle of the road on a freezing cold winter's night is bad enough but having to listen to Auld Lang Syne sung by people who have had too much to drink, adds insult to injury.

DC

Subject: RE: Auld Lang Syne
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 23 Dec 10 - 02:51 PM

I've never had to actually go outside to sing it if the Hogmanay party was in a house. But I have stood in St George's Square in Glasgow, and you're right Jim, people were truly plastered AND bashing eachother senseless at midnight. I was a bit scared as I was on my own, but Glasgow folk are very jolly and no-one bashed ME fortunately. I too would love to see the starchy and inhibited ER being 'claught by the rump'. I must add that Auld Lang Syne now makes me blub, as does "Mull of Kintyre" when the pipes start. I had some very happy times in Scotland.

Subject: RE: Auld Lang Syne
From: Van
Date: 23 Dec 10 - 03:32 PM

Does it matter how you pronounce it as long as you enjoy singing it and have even a remote idea of what it may mean?
We all have different accents.

Subject: RE: Auld Lang Syne
From: GUEST,Allan Con
Date: 23 Dec 10 - 04:03 PM

Van is right in the scheme of things it doesn't really matter how the world pronounces it. Though I would say it is a mispronounciation rather than an accent thing. Unless the English speaking world outside of Scotland looks at the road zigns to get to their Auld Year's Night party :-)

Subject: RE: Auld Lang Syne
From: BobKnight
Date: 23 Dec 10 - 04:24 PM

It has been suggested that it may be a case of, "voice-borrowing," from the voiced sound of the G in lang. In other words the "voicing" carrying over into the unvoiced S.

Subject: RE: Auld Lang Syne
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 23 Dec 10 - 04:40 PM

'The only problem I have is with witless Folk pedantry in the face of very common usage when billions of us the world over have been singing it that way all our lives. I've sang it with Americans, Canadians, Germans, Japanese, Norwegians, English and even Scots - all of them singing as Zyne. So - what is the problem?"
======

Don't know, Zuidhne ~~ you tell uz.

~M~

Subject: RE: Auld Lang Syne
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 23 Dec 10 - 07:04 PM

Never mind te words. It's one of two great familiar tunes for honing your position skills on the diatonic harmonica, the other being Dirty Old Town. Both can be played in three positions without bends. Great exercises!

Subject: RE: Auld Lang Syne
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 23 Dec 10 - 07:04 PM

the

Subject: RE: Auld Lang Syne
From: GUEST,Suibhne Astray
Date: 24 Dec 10 - 04:24 AM

I'm inclined to think it's a matter of 'voice - borrowing'; it's certainly easier to say it without voicing than it is to sing it, which most of us might do once a year (at best). I might do it at our Xmas Eve sesh in Preston tonight and try my best to sing Syne - and watch those anomalous sakes, but such, I fear is The Folk Process...

Subject: RE: Auld Lang Syne
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 24 Dec 10 - 07:47 AM

All you doubters should listen Ronnie Brown the surviving Corrie sing this properly and to the right tune on, 'The Complete Songs Of Robert Burns ' volume 3

Dave H

Subject: RE: Auld Lang Syne
From: GUEST,Suibhne Astray
Date: 24 Dec 10 - 01:20 PM

properly and to the right tune

If the Common Tune is good enough for Sun Ra then it's good enough for me!

Subject: RE: Auld Lang Syne
From: Jim McLean
Date: 24 Dec 10 - 02:40 PM

Burns only wrote a couple of the verses we sing today and set it to a tune which was older than he was and already popular. It was George Thompson the publisher who set it to the 'Common Tune' after Burns died. Another of Burns'songs 'My Love is Like a Red, Red, Rose' was also set to a different tune to that which we know now (set by R. A. Smith). Burns was a poet and never wrote a tune in his life but his words are what we remember best.

Subject: RE: Auld Lang Syne - how to pronounce
From: Ross Campbell
Date: 24 Dec 10 - 11:39 PM

There is no such word as "zyne", no matter how many millionz pronounze it as zuch. And a merry Chrizmaz to youze all!
Rozz

Subject: RE: Auld Lang Syne - how to pronounce
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 25 Dec 10 - 01:59 AM

Burns was a poet and never wrote a tune in his life but his words are what we remember best.

=====

Indeed, Jim; but he demonstrably frequently had a specific tune in mind, would you not agree? ~~ as e.g. in 'My Love She's But A Lassie Yet' & 'Robin Was A Roving Boy'.

~Michael~

Subject: RE: Auld Lang Syne - how to pronounce
From: Jim McLean
Date: 25 Dec 10 - 04:21 AM

MtheGM, yes he did, and decribes how he would hum a tune, rocking back and forth in his chair until both words and music came together but his great contribution to Scottish music is that he rescued old tunes by putting new, or ammending old lyrics. We owe him a great deal.
Robert Tannahill was another such writer although he was more strict in wanting the music of his choice always to be used.
Both were quite accomplished musicians, Burns on the fiddle and Tannahill on the German flute.
A Merry Christmas.